Ok, that's understandable, but if they were to re integrate with the unit at fort irwin, Angel would be in a higher position of command than Michael right?
Ok, that's understandable, but if they were to re integrate with the unit at fort irwin, Angel would be in a higher position of command than Michael right?
Angel's #1 Fan
What I mean is, when the tower was intact. Michael was supreme ruler and commander. He took orders from no one. His role was more of a general, and a president to the people of the tower. Angel's role on the other hand was exactly one of an officer. He took orders handed down from the guy in charge, and he got things done.
The other thing is, if the military is still following protocol, i feel that they wouldn't line them up and see who's better, they would say hey, you're a 2nd lt, you do this job. Hey you're a sgt, you do this job. (Unless I'm wrong?-looney? -Crowbar?)
Here's the thing, for the story to progress, someone from the tower, NEEDS to be in a leadership role at irwin. He doesn't need full command but he's the type who would never be satisfied with his group not having representation. The other thing is, there was a line from an older episode where he said he just didn't like taking orders from anyone anymore.
As for angel being command right away, probably not, but that's most likely all a part of the re integration process. See if they're trustworthy, and if they prove themselves, give them positions at the base. afterwards, i'm under the impression that if they're following protocol they'd put the 2nd lt into a 2nd lt's role, (as unrespected as he might be) and they'd put a sgt, into a sgt's position. (once again -looney, crowbar?)
Angel's #1 Fan
Technically, if Angel and Michael were to work together in a regular unit, with a standard command structure, Angel outranks Michael. Angel could issue orders to Michael and Michael would be expected to execute with no question. The thing is, Michael and all of the NCOs in that unit would have years of real experience that Angel didn't and would have the backing of the commander and the first sergeant if Michael told him that his idea was stupid. You always have to have tact in the military, that's what keeps you out of trouble. And by experience, I don't necessarily mean combat. NCOs know who to go to in order to get things done. New LTs never know the better way to get stuff done in a hurry. They always feel the need to go by the book and take forever. That's why LTs are always at work until like 1900 when their NCOs are trying to leave at 1500. I'll have to relisten to it, but I'm pretty sure Michael and Saul treated Angel just like a new LT in the first few chapters.
One Shot, One Kill. No Remorse. I Decide.
To respond to your second post, normally an E-5 sergeant would fill a team leader role, with 3 or 4 soldiers under him, following a squad leader. A really high speed sergeant can fill a staff sergeant role as a squad leader, with 2 fire teams (this is the Infantry I'm speaking of, but it's a similar structure to most jobs). I could see Michael being placed in more of a platoon sergeant role, giving him charge of 4 squads. He's too good at being in charge to be placed in a remedial role. My biggest fear is that he's Intel, and he'll be placed in a job that is purely intel. Those dudes don't fight at all. They debrief guys like me and compile intel to give the big picture to the commander of troops. The best we can hope for with Angel and Michael being reintegrated into a unit is Michael being PSG and Angel being his PL.
One Shot, One Kill. No Remorse. I Decide.
No they don't. If Michael convinces the Leader at Ft. Irwin they need to go back to LA, and Michael gets put in charge of the mission, gets a crew, and goes. That doesn't require him to be in a leader role beyond what he already does. And according to you that's not leadership per your previous argument.
The other thing is, if the military is still following protocol, i feel that they wouldn't line them up and see who's better, they would say hey, you're a 2nd lt, you do this job. Hey you're a sgt, you do this job. (Unless I'm wrong?-looney? -Crowbar?)See....you're not seeing the forest through the trees in my opinion. Sure. Stick Angel in as Lt. And again, I say that Michael is more qualified than Angel and would outrank him immediately following the "trustworthy proving" grounds. If the military structure still stands, there's going to be a distinct lack in leadership by its nature simply because there are less leaders.As for angel being command right away, probably not, but that's most likely all a part of the re integration process. See if they're trustworthy, and if they prove themselves, give them positions at the base. afterwards, i'm under the impression that if they're following protocol they'd put the 2nd lt into a 2nd lt's role, (as unrespected as he might be) and they'd put a sgt, into a sgt's position. (once again -looney, crowbar?)
The reality is that Michael is a more worthy Lt. Angel is a more worthy Sgt.
If they test them to see if they're trust worthy. who's to say Michael (who has proven himself far more capable than Angel in just about every aspect of well.....everything) wouldn't outrank him by the time they're done? Just because Angel starts ahead doesn't mean he ends up ahead.
~Ra1th: Nik doesn't sleep, he waits.~
~TCM Revolver: ra1th needs to be on the look out for cars that appear to be moved recently, and nikvoodoo on the rooftops
Voodoo Lounge Here!! Twitter: Follow Me, Follow WA Follow WND
negative, sergeants are your backbone. a 2LT is supposed to be in a learning mode, as such he should be learning what it is to be a leader of men from his NCO. if he isn't than he is failing in his capacity as a 2LT. angel has certain training that michael doesn't have, and that training will be useful if he ever comes into his own, but right now he has neither the experience to be an effective leader nor it seems the inclination to learn to be an effective leader. in a leadership role, experience counts for a lot, but having the kind of knowledge imbued at OCS and/or west point is a great asset as well. if he learned from michael, or any of the NCOs at the base, how to be an authority figure, along with the experience he has gained in the shit, and gaining time actually leading a platoon at the base, he would be a fantastic leader.
I'm retracting my ten foot pole from this discussion and going to fly the Swiss flag on this one.
"I have better things to do tonight than die."
-Springer (while loading a mortar shell)
KC showed us the tension between ranks in the 1st couple of chapters. Just listen to Michael as Angel is introduced. Something like
The spoiled rich kid... (just out of OCS?) ... but I had more command experience in (the tip of ) my little finger.
One of the main themes beof the story is the shift of Michael from the angry older brother with a huge father and control issues to calm provider / protector husband. My guess is he does not rise to clan-leader, but he learns how to accept orders and help from his elders.
Angel is making the transition from a self-centered child who believes he is entitled to a very talented leader who can guide others with a light hand and eventually to clan leader.
I believe both are half-way through their heroes journey.
Burt is a retired marine without family. He clearly out ranks Michael. Although he brisles under it, he will take orders, but not without getting the last (sarchastic) word. He starts the transition back to father-figure quickly. "You're not alone Blondie". He tries to take command, but does not do well with civilian personality types and freezes when his "daugher" Lizzy is the subject of wrath. He gives up the direct leadership role going back to father and protector. He will bow out of a direct combat role and transition back to the great-grandfather. He comes to terms with the idea that he is well, getting old. it happens to all of us. The mind is willing, but the body does not respond like it used to. They say you never stop being a marine and they also say that every marine a rifleman. Burt showed that a marine is always a marine by ending retirment and going back to active duty. But, even Beowulf eventually falls in battle and Bret Fabre misses a game and then a season.
Damn, too early in the morn' for this type philisophical pontification. This is more of a beer and chips at the pub discussion. TGIF
Shouldn't this thread be the in Other Factions section?
I'm really interested to see what the chain of command is like at the base and also if there is any remains of government.
Surely there must be pockets across the country Like Fort Irwin which have been able to hold out?
Bookmarks