Female Characters on the Show

[ShdwHolly]

I am a big fan of the walking dead in theory; the actual show is another story. I thought I felt differently about ’We’re Alive’, but as time goes on I am beginning to see how similar the two shows are, especially in their portrayal of women. Why is it that women are always portrayed as stereotypes – unable to help themselves or stand on their own two feet?

I can’t stand Pegs – whiny, irrational (who lets personal issues stand in the way of SURVIVING the apocalypse by learning to use a gun??!! Oh right, a woman. Of course.) Neither she nor Kelly are capable of any real decision making without the help of a male leader. And WTF happened to Hope? She went from sweet blind girl to incessant nag.

The moment a woman does begin to claim some power or strength in the show, she is immediately degraded by being portrayed as crazy or a bitch. We see this with the only ‘strong’ women in the entire show – Riley and CJ. I really had high hopes for Riley, she was interesting, courageous and resourceful. I think my disillusion with the show really began as her melt down did. She tried to kill herself? She’s suddenly an alcoholic? WHY?!? She has made it through so much, she used to be a soldier and NOW she has a break. Seriously?! CJ is also a great leader, but then she is sexualized and her obsession with Saul makes her seem like a nice combination of crazy/bitch (she tries to seduce a man searching for his pregnant girlfriend for pete’s sake!).

I understand the male characters have military experience and this makes them natural leaders in any war-like scenario, but Scratch has 0 experience and has been more or less leading a group of raucous prisoners with relative success (if success is defined by still being alive). She, of course, is portrayed as the ultimate bitch.

Has anyone else out there, male or female, noticed the same thing? Why can’t a woman be a Saul or a Michael without being crazy and/or a bitch?! Ghhhhhaaahh!

[Gnex]

Hmmmm that escalated quickly.......

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

I am a big fan of the walking dead in theory; the actual show is another story. I thought I felt differently about ’We’re Alive’, but as time goes on I am beginning to see how similar the two shows are, especially in their portrayal of women. Why is it that women are always portrayed as stereotypes – unable to help themselves or stand on their own two feet?

I can’t stand Pegs – whiny, irrational (who lets personal issues stand in the way of SURVIVING the apocalypse by learning to use a gun??!! Oh right, a woman. Of course.) Neither she nor Kelly are capable of any real decision making without the help of a male leader. And WTF happened to Hope? She went from sweet blind girl to incessant nag.

The moment a woman does begin to claim some power or strength in the show, she is immediately degraded by being portrayed as crazy or a bitch. We see this with the only ‘strong’ women in the entire show – Riley and CJ. I really had high hopes for Riley, she was interesting, courageous and resourceful. I think my disillusion with the show really began as her melt down did. She tried to kill herself? She’s suddenly an alcoholic? WHY?!? She has made it through so much, she used to be a soldier and NOW she has a break. Seriously?! CJ is also a great leader, but then she is sexualized and her obsession with Saul makes her seem like a nice combination of crazy/bitch (she tries to seduce a man searching for his pregnant girlfriend for pete’s sake!).

I understand the male characters have military experience and this makes them natural leaders in any war-like scenario, but Scratch has 0 experience and has been more or less leading a group of raucous prisoners with relative success (if success is defined by still being alive). She, of course, is portrayed as the ultimate bitch.

Has anyone else out there, male or female, noticed the same thing? Why can’t a woman be a Saul or a Michael without being crazy and/or a bitch?! Ghhhhhaaahh!

Well, maybe we can skip gender studies class for today because nearly each and every character on the has shown characteristics of a neurological wreck - regardless of a specific gender.
Besides, no one will dispute that Datu IS the whiny scream queen of WA.

[GeneraLee]

I am a big fan of the walking dead in theory; the actual show is another story. I thought I felt differently about ’We’re Alive’, but as time goes on I am beginning to see how similar the two shows are, especially in their portrayal of women. Why is it that women are always portrayed as stereotypes – unable to help themselves or stand on their own two feet?

I can’t stand Pegs – whiny, irrational (who lets personal issues stand in the way of SURVIVING the apocalypse by learning to use a gun??!! Oh right, a woman. Of course.) Neither she nor Kelly are capable of any real decision making without the help of a male leader. And WTF happened to Hope? She went from sweet blind girl to incessant nag.

The moment a woman does begin to claim some power or strength in the show, she is immediately degraded by being portrayed as crazy or a bitch. We see this with the only ‘strong’ women in the entire show – Riley and CJ. I really had high hopes for Riley, she was interesting, courageous and resourceful. I think my disillusion with the show really began as her melt down did. She tried to kill herself? She’s suddenly an alcoholic? WHY?!? She has made it through so much, she used to be a soldier and NOW she has a break. Seriously?! CJ is also a great leader, but then she is sexualized and her obsession with Saul makes her seem like a nice combination of crazy/bitch (she tries to seduce a man searching for his pregnant girlfriend for pete’s sake!).

I understand the male characters have military experience and this makes them natural leaders in any war-like scenario, but Scratch has 0 experience and has been more or less leading a group of raucous prisoners with relative success (if success is defined by still being alive). She, of course, is portrayed as the ultimate bitch.

Has anyone else out there, male or female, noticed the same thing? Why can’t a woman be a Saul or a Michael without being crazy and/or a bitch?! Ghhhhhaaahh!

I don't think that any character is immune to flaws.

Michael- TONS of flaws, makes mistakes all the time. Has been a whiney-butt many times.
Saul- Very selfish, heart over head most of the time.
Datu- Needs not saying, but actually a VERY strong character who has been through a lot, but externalizes everything instead of just internalizing as everyone else. (Hense why people think he's whiney)
Angel- Was very self-centered as well, but then got better, then... well, you know.
Burt- A very BAD leader. He proved this many times.
Victor- Best friend you could have. Not many negatives with him. Very loyal.

And your female assessment I think it only partial.
Riley- Yes, she's angry, but for good reason. She's still strong, but a lot of her flaws are due to the trauma she went through. She's strong enough to walk away from people she cares about because she thinks there's a greater threat, as does Burt. Could be for personal reasons, but it's not a "safe" place to be.
Pegs- Yes, everyone complains about her, but she is strong in her own ways. She single handedly is feeding everyone, and making sure they survive. She might not pick up a gun, but who cares? Gun handling or killing doesn't mean someone's strong.
Lizzy- Very strong female character, stood up to Scratch in the threat of death even.
Tanya- Constantly puts herself in harms way to help other people. Always there to help anyone else, above her own safety.
CJ- I think everyone has a very wrong perspective of her at times. She's extremely strong, organized, etc... just because she was interested in someone doesn't mean she's any less strong. She's strong enough to kick someone out that she cares for, even though it's not a popular opinion, and that was after being lied to and deceived.
Hope- She's a teenager. A blind one, who is struggling with having a purpose in the world. How could you NOT be pessimistic?


Anyone I missed?
Yes, everyone is flawed, and everyone has different strengths. That's what makes them people. No one on the show is perfect.

[Eviebae]

It seems to me you are hypersensitive about the flaws of the female characters, but overlook the portrayed flaws of the male characters.

Hypersensitive or just sensitive?
As in, aware of stuff you might not be?

It's possible to have blind spots with regards to character dynamics without being sexist/evil/mean--just look up gender bias in the classroom. Inequalities of all types can be so culturally ingrained that they are invisible. Nice/good people can be "programmed" with expectations and feel really uncomfortable/unhappy when those expectations are fiddled with.

Point is, no matter if you are a male or female, you may not see it and you may not wish to see it. Try talking about it without shutting her down or denying her outright.

[Litmaster]

Hypersensitive or just sensitive?
As in, aware of stuff you might not be?

It's possible to have blind spots with regards to character dynamics without being sexist/evil/mean--just look up gender bias in the classroom. Inequalities of all types can be so culturally ingrained that they are invisible. Nice/good people can be "programmed" with expectations and feel really uncomfortable/unhappy when those expectations are fiddled with.

Point is, no matter if you are a male or female, you may not see it and you may not wish to see it. Try talking about it without shutting her down or denying her outright.

Who was shutting anyone down? I even complimented her on her post:

Nice post

And Evie, your point about 'blind spots' is well taken, but you could just as well claim 'blind spots' with regards to character dynamics for any demographic, no matter how you want to slice it:

Men could complain that Datu is not macho enough

Hispanics could complain about how Victor is not taken seriously as a leader

Gays could complain that Riley's alleged lesbianism is too understated and "in the closet"

Those opposed to foul language could complain about the abundance of swearing used by the characters

Brown-eyed people could complain about overabundance of blue- and green-eyed characters in the story

Postal workers could complain about how their career is underrepresented in the story

Extreme pacifists could complain that the military is glorified in We're Alive, etc.

I'm only being partly facetious with these examples, because my point is serious: what we are really talking about here are differences in perspective. Of course different people are going to be more sensitive to different aspects of this or any story. And as such, they will be relatively less sensitive to other aspects (what you call 'blind spots'). This is just stating the obvious, but to choose one of these perspectives to criticize (e.g., the perceived misrepresentation of female characters in the story) more so than others speaks more about the listener's values and priorities than the author's, in my opinion.

The author has to do what he feels is best for the story, and all of us, as the audience, are free to react to it however we wish. If this story seems to chauvinistic for our tastes, then I'm sure there are plenty of other feminist stories out there which would be more to our liking.


p.s.
Having said that, when people communicate their disparate perspectives on a forum such as this, it can greatly add to the appreciation of the story overall. This is why I thought ShdwHolly's post was "nice", even though I don't fully agree with her point. I hope that my disagreement does not discourage her participation here, for I feel that having multiple perspectives voiced enriches the discussion much more than unilateral opinions.

So please keep posting, ShdwHolly... whether you agree with me or not!

[Osiris]

Everyone deserves a voice.

[Gooer]

I don't know what kind of pacifist female you are expecting in the Zombpocalypse... but that type of person is most likely already dead.

.......Like Pegs.....?

[Gooer]

While i feel that Pegs IS the whiny, helpless maiden in distress, she adds diversity to the group, and while she may seem pathetic for the trauma of killing someone, i'm guessing to someone that is against major violence, killing someone would be very hard to deal with, even in self defense. To me, Riley, Tanya, CJ and Kelly are also really strong characters. CJ IS the top dog in the Colony; people go to HER for advice, not the other way around. Riley, is headstrong and confident, but was only driven to the alcohol abuse/suicide because she had endured too much mentally; thinking she lost Lizzy, and the death of Angel - what she presumed to have lost her best friend and her love (which ever you want to put them as), as it said in the show. Tanya, now, she's an independent black woman who don't need no man! But all jokes aside, she is another strong character that can question whatever someone says - be it Michael or CJ. And Kelly, while she was a major bitch in season one, she changed a lot over the show, and i like her now (i pretty much hated her in season one). I think each character is perfect for what they do, even with all of their flaws. No one is perfect, and Kc does a great job on showing it.

[Osiris]

Wait... Tanya's black? Do... wait... have we stopped being PC?

I think we should all take a moment, and a deep breath, and not jump on someone's tits on their first post. Yes? Yes, I am looking directly at you, Lit.