Chapter 19 - 1 The Catalyst

[Kc]

Forum thread open.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Roger that!

[Sir Bob Cornelius Rifo]

great episode, season just got super interesting, i hope the home gets involved in the next part or at least this chapter

[mascaria]

Marcus is a liiiiiiaarrrrr.

Also wtf with the taser omg.

[cPT.cAPSLOCK]

Just finished listening. Great episode!
I wonder how this'll play out.

It sounded as if Marcus was plainly lying about being in the military. He didn't sound convincing, and he didn't know anything specific like his unit's number. That's a detail you don't forget quickly.
He did admit he tried to avoid the topic ("I'm just trying to forget all of it"), but it sounded fake to me.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Ok... "Contracts?" that sound evil as hell KC! Michael and the shovel. LOL! "Guardians" Work gangs. Capital punishment for minor issues. Broken nose equals a broken neck. wow!
This Shaun cat had mad pull in the Colony. Why would he have been out to be attacked though?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Hey Capt!
Marcus didn't have a clue what an "MOS" was. He's most def lying about being Army, but he's got everyone drinking the koolaid. He's big on Darwanism.

[cycogod]

maybe shaun was an uneasy accomplice in this compound? might not have minded getting away from it.

[Ryzilient]

Phenomenal episode, the quality of the writing from last episode to this episode skyrocketed from great to brilliant. There was an obvious, sinister tone which definitely helped to highlight the nature of the colony.

Marcus comes across as a little less forward version of the Governor from The Walking Dead. He does not appear to be outright violent yet, but we definitely can see that it wouldn't be a stretch for him to be violent. He was clearly lying in some way about his military past, his tone and the fact that he seemed very much unwilling to divulge any information seemed to allude to that. Things are about to get interesting...

[Sabrestrike]

Wow! This was an amazing episode. There's so much to go through. There are so many different ways this can go. I think Marcus probably killed his second-in-command. Probably because he was going against Marcus. It seemed like the people there liked him better. That will probably repeat itself with Michael. Seems like Marcus has his own personal armyand that can get very dangerous. I can definitly see the Tower and the Mallers teaming up. The Tower lacks the strength and means to stage a breakout. The Mallers will be better equiped for that. Maybe they'll promise them their own territory within the colony. Seemed like a pretty big place. Someone will escape. I think it'll be Hope and someone else (maybe Peggs). They'll alert the Burt and the others. Figure out an escape plan or takeover. Marcus and his military background is bs. That may bite him in the butt later.
I got to listen to this again. Amazing episode guys.

[fraggot]

My only question is, who's Randy?

[Adogg]

So I'm from the Army. Oh, what's that you say? MOS? What's that? Oh yeah ... but I'm still from the Army.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Who doesn't know what an MOS is?


Oh and BTW .......


TOLD YOU SO!
TOLD YOU SO!
TOLD YOU SO!
TOLD YOU SO!
TOLD YOU SO!
TOLD YOU SO!
TOLD YOU SO!
TOLD YOU SO!
TOLD YOU SO!
TOLD YOU SO!
TOLD YOU SO!

[VeritableHero]

Excellent episode. It made me happy to realize it was the 21st when I woke up today. I'm definitely anxious for next week.

Side note: is there a larger version of the episode art on the web site anywhere? It may be a case of the Mondays as to why I can't find it. Thanks!

[Kc]

Excellent episode. It made me happy to realize it was the 21st when I woke up today. I'm definitely anxious for next week.

Side note: is there a larger version of the episode art on the web site anywhere? It may be a case of the Mondays as to why I can't find it. Thanks!
We'll get it up somewhere, eventually. The facebook page has a decent size version of it.

[Destiny]

I liked it.

[Destiny]

My only question is, who's Randy?

Maybe he was feeling randy?

[lectio]

Great episode!

[toaster_oven42]

Michael + Shovel = Badass

[tommy_vercetti]

dayum
when Micheal grabbed the shovel, a smile came up on my face
overall great episode, looking foward to next weeks episode

[Ra1th]

First things first i really have to get this outa my system before i can do anything else

I TOLD U SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
MALLER/ TOWER TAG TEAM HERE WE COME!!!!!!
I AM SOOOOOOO PSYCHED!!!!!

this episode was sooo awesome! i am so pumped like everything about it rocked, especially michael beating that tazer douchebag's face in with a shovel HELL YEAAAH, im so pumped i wanna go run a marathon or something crazy adrenalin rush! screw angel, i think michael might be my new favorite after that fiasco!

ok so now that i've got that outa my system,

so now we know the colony is gonna be set as the main villain of season 2. and here's how i can back it up the mallers are bad, yes, BUT they are not in conflict with the tower right now, they are off licking their wounds from the war and doing their own thing, while the colony is off tazing Pegs ( I am not that big a pegs fan, but ohhh hell no you dont just taze one of our people and get away with it ). these guys are the enemy standing in the tower's way.

This is all just a theory, but for now i think its a good possibility. I'm reaaaally going for that maller vs colony war season finale

The way i see it, it will not be possible for michael/pegs and kelly to escape with saul's medicine. think about it, how would they pull it off. first off they have to break into the armory and steal weapons, then they have to steal a car and then get through the gates, and i will bet you anything that marcus and the colony will be on their ass the moment they leave the colony and they would be hunted down.

Michael will play things out for the long term, he's accpted the position of second in command. We dont know why Shaun was killed, but i'm gonna take a leap of faith and say that he was planning a coup, ( we know that he was the one who saved Hope, and brought her to the colony, he was almost surely a good guy, and he was sick of the tyranny of how things were done in the colony, and so he winds up dead on marcus's orders) now michaels in that position, and he's gonna pull the same thing, except he's a lot smarter because he's Michael and we know what he's capable of.

I dont see michael leaving the colony, maybe Hope gets kicked out of the colony soon, and i can see Kelly and pegs somehow making a run for it while michael stays behind and covers for them, like nikvoodoo once said, things are run like a mafia in the colony, since micahel is in such a high position, he can probably make peggs and kelly dissapear without anyone noticing. but this is getting into detail. in vague terms, i see a small team making it out of the colony and running to the tower with saul's medicine. kelly has to be one of the people to make the run to the tower, she's smart and handy with a gun, she gets to the tower and alerts them of the situation, meanwhile back at the tower, tehres a truce/ peace treaty between the mallers and the tower ( somethign along those lines) the mallers are looking for somewhere new to live, well the colony is ripe for the picking. these two plan a collaborative strike. meanwhile michael insights a revolution wihtin the colony. and there you have it a set up for a season 2 finale ( oh and there will be sweat bottles ;) )


also, interesting choice for a title dont you think? " the catalyst" usually the titles hold double meanings, so this one has to have some importance as well

[RamblinMike]

Amazing episode. Freaking blew my mind. I listened to this while I was working today. Immediately afterward, I went to clean a mirror and noticed how very bloodshot my eyes were. It wasn't from crying. It was from 20 minutes of not blinking.

I don't see a teamup against the colony exactly. I see a rescue of the colony - not necessarily bringing them out of the colony, but saving them from the commie dictatorship they've got going on there. I'd hate to see a bunch of forced slaves fighting for that bastard Marcus.

I'll be listening to this one again first thing in the morning.

[Ra1th]

Amazing episode. Freaking blew my mind. I listened to this while I was working today. Immediately afterward, I went to clean a mirror and noticed how very bloodshot my eyes were. It wasn't from crying. It was from 20 minutes of not blinking.

I don't see a teamup against the colony exactly. I see a rescue of the colony - not necessarily bringing them out of the colony, but saving them from the commie dictatorship they've got going on there. I'd hate to see a bunch of forced slaves fighting for that bastard Marcus.

I'll be listening to this one again first thing in the morning.

Damn i hadnt thought of that... Well this changes everything mybe the season finale will be a revOlution within the colony. But tyat seems sooo much lamer than my maller dea. Oh well as long as the mallers show uP at some point and raise a little hell ill be happy

[nikvoodoo]

Hello, my children. Welcome to "I Told You So Theology 101: The Basics"

I know we all get excited and want to say I told you so all the time when we think our theories are correct, but we must look to our Patron Saint of "I Told You So" mythology, Burt Scott. Despite having full knowledge of I told you so sitting within his breast that the party was a bad idea and shouldn't have happened, he doth wait until the opportune moment to throw it in the leader Michael's face. But only did so when the Tower was fully under attack and was minutes from burning to the ground. And when it happened, it was good. And there was much Kalani ass kissing and rejoicing.

SO remember, You must have evidence and proof before I told you so can be thrown about haphazardly. For example, Nikvoodoo predicted we would meet Marcus in Chapter 19 (http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/entry.php?14-The-Voodoo-Lounge-Chapter-19-Predictions). He sayeth unto you "I told you so!"

Ra1th and Adogg, I will need to see you after class......(and Adogg, I'm not even sure what your I told you so was for. Write it in a two page essay by class time tomorrow...).......

......

Ok I'm done being weird. I shouldn't be on here after driving for 10 hours in a day.



Damn i hadnt thought of that... Well this changes everything mybe the season finale will be a revOlution within the colony. But tyat seems sooo much lamer than my maller dea. Oh well as long as the mallers show uP at some point and raise a little hell ill be happy

I won't admit to having heard the entire episode. It's very hard to hear spoken word while driving in a car anyway let alone with an Ipod FM tuner thingy that makes it really hard to hear anything the ipod is playing. I haven't had a chance to relisten to the episode yet, but here's my take on the basics of it: In thinking of the title "catalyst" means one that brings about change without altering the thing causing the change, or precipitates an event. Michael's release onto the populace of the Colony is the Catalyst for a revolution against Marcus. This isn't a society of fairness. It's all for the greater good. Michael disagrees completely. Michael's personality and addition of his defiant spirit to the society will spread like a virus until Marcus and the Guardians can't control it anymore.

I don't know if this stretches out for the entire remainder of the season. If it does stretch out that long, I'll be surprised how the mallers play in. No one knew about the Colony's existence and if you believe what was said about people not wanting to let that information out...hmm.... so many thoughts. Must relisten and catch everything that was said...

Again, sorry for being so weird.

[TCM Revolver]

Hello, my children. Welcome to "I Told You So Theology 101: The Basics"

I've been waiting for this lol

[nikvoodoo]

Can I also say that from what we could hear in the car, I just got my fiancee hooked on "We're Alive" today. That's how good the story was. She has been making fun of me and my zombie podcast and forum since the time I signed up in January.

She's now glaring at me because she wants to listen to the whole story....the story she's been making fun of me for....and it's all my fault! So kudos on solid script today!

[Ra1th]

big daddy nikvoodoo arrives at last, i was wondering when you'd show up and school us all hahahaa

i'd like to start by retracting my first statement, since there's no way i can defend all the stuff in it, plus half of it was written while i was on a "michael just beat some guy with a shovel" rush.

so my I told you so, will be this, The season finale will end in a glorious war against the colony. conflict against the colony whatever, the colony is the badguy sitting on a fence, and it will fall and all the king's horses and all the kings men will not be able to put the colony back together again. basically i told you so, the colony is actively hostile. i believe that was what adogg was talking about too.

good catch on the title, i was totally drawing a blank on what was being catalyzed.

as for the mallers, i'll eat my hat if they dont play a role at some point before the season ends, maybe they wont come to the tower's aid playing "ride of the valkyries", but i dont see the colony being brought down by revolution alone. No doubt, Michael is a catalyst for the coming revolution, but the unarmed masses can be cowed by the guardians who hold all the weapons. It seems to works just like the communist regimes of old, with a ruling party holding the power (weapons), and the commoners following, if it was to happen revolution alone it would be long and bloody, and success isnt guaranteed. Let's assume there are 500 people in teh colony, if so let's say there are a 100 or so guardians, or something along a 1 armed guardian carrying an m16 (stolen from the armory, this is assuming the colony is the one who stole the weapons from the armory angel/kalani were at) against 5 common folk, that rebellion could be easily quelled, i'm sure Marcus has thought of this possibility and has defenses in place to stop it from happening, so there's no way the colony regiime is goign down with revolution alone, there will be a war, and that's how the season will end.

grade away professor voodoo

[nikvoodoo]

big daddy nikvoodoo arrives at last, i was wondering when you'd show up and school us all hahahaa
As I said, I was sadly in a car for 10 hours. It's very hard to listen/read/and comment while driving, especially when you factor in psychotic NYC drivers who change lanes without signaling, looking or caring if you are there or might have feelings.


i'd like to start by retracting my first statement, since there's no way i can defend all the stuff in it, plus half of it was written while i was on a "michael just beat some guy with a shovel" rush.
Yeah....that was pretty sweet. And by pretty sweet, I mean very sweet.


so my I told you so, will be this, The season finale will end in a glorious war against the colony. conflict against the colony whatever, the colony is the badguy sitting on a fence, and it will fall and all the king's horses and all the kings men will not be able to put the colony back together again. basically i told you so, the colony is actively hostile. i believe that was what adogg was talking about too.

Ok, I can buy the I Told You So being the Colony is actively hostile. I can buy it, but I'm not entirely sold quite yet. Again, perspective perspective perspective. The rules are the rules, and if you break them there are consequences. Its the same as any society. They agreed to protection under Marcus, they have to follow the rules. Thanks for clarifying Adogg's comment. I wasn't sure if there was something else on the forums I had missed and I was slightly confused.


good catch on the title, i was totally drawing a blank on what was being catalyzed.

I'm just glad I got it in before anyone else did!


as for the mallers, i'll eat my hat if they dont play a role at some point before the season ends, maybe they wont come to the tower's aid playing "ride of the valkyries", but i dont see the colony being brought down by revolution alone. No doubt, Michael is a catalyst for the coming revolution, but the unarmed masses can be cowed by the guardians who hold all the weapons. It seems to works just like the communist regimes of old, with a ruling party holding the power (weapons), and the commoners following, if it was to happen revolution alone it would be long and bloody, and success isnt guaranteed. Let's assume there are 500 people in teh colony, if so let's say there are a 100 or so guardians, or something along a 1 armed guardian carrying an m16 (stolen from the armory, this is assuming the colony is the one who stole the weapons from the armory angel/kalani were at) against 5 common folk, that rebellion could be easily quelled, i'm sure Marcus has thought of this possibility and has defenses in place to stop it from happening, so there's no way the colony regiime is goign down with revolution alone, there will be a war, and that's how the season will end.

Like I've said all along, I do believe the mallers have a huge role left to play. I just do not know how it's going to happen right now. There's still a lot of time left to establish and formulate an alliance/uneasy alliance/trick the Mallers into doing something, but I can't see how it can play out right now.

Remember, if you are an American citizen your country started because a bunch of upstarts organized themselves and outlasted the most power military in the world at the time. You need to have a strong enough will and the true passion to enact change. If that sentiment exists within the working class of the Colony, anything is possible. Michael's coup might take a long time to ferment. Or it will be done before the end of Chapter 19. It's hard to know. I'm guessing it will take longer.


grade away professor voodoo

C+. You have some capitalization issues, and spelling issues. Some of your sentences run on far too long and there is some very interesting punctuation. ;)

[Ra1th]

Ok, I can buy the I Told You So being the Colony is actively hostile. I can buy it, but I'm not entirely sold quite yet. Again, perspective perspective perspective. The rules are the rules, and if you break them there are consequences. Its the same as any society. They agreed to protection under Marcus, they have to follow the rules.

i suppose this is the whole perspective argument again, but Marcus isnt exactly the nicest guy in the world, i mean yes dictatorships do offer some benefits, but the people live in tyranny none the less, a broken neck in exchange for a broken nose? that's an extreme set of rules, but i suppose for now those rules have kept those people alive, but there is a reason kc is giving us said perspective.



Remember, if you are an American citizen your country started because a bunch of upstarts organized themselves and outlasted the most power military in the world at the time. You need to have a strong enough will and the true passion to enact change. If that sentiment exists within the working class of the Colony, anything is possible. Michael's coup might take a long time to ferment. Or it will be done before the end of Chapter 19. It's hard to know. I'm guessing it will take longer.

well here's the thing about our revolution, yes we were a bunch of upstarts that took on the british superpower, BUT we did have help. at one of our most crucial moments, France went to war with Britain causing them to divert their attention away from the colonies. So that's why i say that the colony guardians are gong to be distracted by a direct assault from the outside, while michael and his rebel's start a guerilla war from the inside.


Like I've said all along, I do believe the mallers have a huge role left to play. I just do not know how it's going to happen right now. There's still a lot of time left to establish and formulate an alliance/uneasy alliance/trick the Mallers into doing something, but I can't see how it can play out right now.

as for the maller involvement, my theory is that there will be two fronts in the war on the colony, one direct assault from the front, and a rebellion from within crumbling the colony empire. BUT for that to happen, the tower would need to stage an attack on the colony, and the fact of the matter is, the tower simply lacks the man power for something like that. How many trained offensive soldiers do they have that can do something like this. You've got Burt, Angel, Saul (assuming he gets his medicine), Riley, Lizzy, these are ur leaders, and other than that, you have maybe 20 more people in the tower, but assume that about half of them are in no shape for battle. *cough* Datu n Kalani *cough* plus i'm sure there are tower tenants who arent capable of running and gunning etc. so on a good day the tower can muster up 10-15 ppl. thats ok when on defense, but not enough for a serious threat to the colony. AND BAM maller time. we know what the mallers are capable of, especially their offensive tactics. earlier someone mentioned that the mallers werent going all out on their attack on the tower otherwise they woulda driven an oil tanker to the tower door and blown it up, so anyhoo the mallers have the fire power, and the tower has the intel.


C+. You have some capitalization issues, and spelling issues. Some of your sentences run on far too long and there is some very interesting punctuation. ;)

sob sob sob

http://blog.changemyselfchangetheworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/failure11.gif

[Zombiehead]

One of the rules in a zombie apocalypse is to approach other survivors with caution and take note of EVERYTHING. If they are not a welcoming community like our Tower-folk (with some expected reluctance to take in another mouth to feed), they are one or more of four categories...

A) they want to eat you
B) they want to experiment on you
C) they want to rape and pillage or
D) they want to ensalve you

Since Victor(?) wasn't too thrilled about bringing them home we knew right away that they weren't sheltering old folks in the back room. A massive scale prison breakout would be ideal and make for one heck of a finale, but at the moment I'm skeptical (when am I not) about how our trio will escape (IF they escape). Unless I missed a detail somewhere the Mallers have no good reason to help the Tower folks nor come to the aid of Michael Pegs and Kelly. Not to mention the Tower has no reason to trust anything the Mallers say. And after the War, do either side have the resources and man power to take on The Colony? Yes, Scratch has a grudge against Pegs and a "nobody kills her but me" mentality but Durai is running the show.

This is all blind speculation but did anyone consider Michael could take over The Colony at some point in the story? The man is pretty quick to figure things out and he's got the ability to gain influence over people who are pains in the butt. It'd be a shame to waste everything the Colony has to offer with the Tower still being in such a weakened state. Perhaps this mysterious Randy is the person that saved Michael's life at the water tower. Who knows. Gah, I need another episode. It's too early too tell.

[Funny Muffins]

One issues here is the rules, aside from the "EVERYONE WORKS FOR THE GOOD OF THE MOST" we haven't had a rules brief yet.
Sure don't take in more people than you previously stated in the gatehouse is a unwritten rule, but is there a curfew?

Is there a rule wall or is it more like a silent oppression...

Tanya ratted out Micheal in < 1 day no doubt, and not because she had to but because she chose to.
She wanted to be on Marcus's good side, note the hot coffee that she was told to go fetch upon his arrival.
Hot coffee for example may be something he has over most of his working class.

It seems like there are a privileged few and then there are those who are a lesser class, follow me on this: a noncombatant class of people that are valued lower than the leader for example.
He has already stated all for the greater good and what not so why wouldn't he withhold the best stuff for the upper class?
Or it really could just be some simple cafeteria instead of a locked down prison slop hole.

A man was hung up for a previous incident as was stated earlier, martial law may not exist yet outside of "work hours" but it is clear that something is at play larger than what we have seen.

I feel like what was dropped in the hall was blood.

I feel like there is something serious going on inside the Colony, Ground Zero stuff.
Experimental or something otherwise that was taken from the last tower that fell maybe something that Shaun/Shawn/Sean went back for?

[Ra1th]

well the reason the mallers came a knockin on our tower's front door was because they needed a new place to stay, and that's exactly how there could be a maller team up with the tower. the tower has...

[Ra1th]

One issues here is the rules, aside from the "EVERYONE WORKS FOR THE GOOD OF THE MOST" we haven't had a rules brief yet.
Sure don't take in more people than you previously stated in the gatehouse is a unwritten rule, but is there a curfew?

Is there a rule wall or is it more like a silent oppression...

Tanya ratted out Micheal in < 1 day no doubt, and not because she had to but because she chose to.
She wanted to be on Marcus's good side, note the hot coffee that she was told to go fetch upon his arrival.
Hot coffee for example may be something he has over most of his working class.

It seems like there are a privileged few and then there are those who are a lesser class, follow me on this: a noncombatant class of people that are valued lower than the leader for example.
He has already stated all for the greater good and what not so why wouldn't he withhold the best stuff for the upper class?
Or it really could just be some simple cafeteria instead of a locked down prison slop hole.

A man was hung up for a previous incident as was stated earlier, martial law may not exist yet outside of "work hours" but it is clear that something is at play larger than what we have seen.

I feel like what was dropped in the hall was blood.

I feel like there is something serious going on inside the Colony, Ground Zero stuff.
Experimental or something otherwise that was taken from the last tower that fell maybe something that Shaun/Shawn/Sean went back for?

Communism 101, well the failed version that the ussr used anyway

[RamblinMike]

One issues here is the rules, aside from the "EVERYONE WORKS FOR THE GOOD OF THE MOST" we haven't had a rules brief yet.
Sure don't take in more people than you previously stated in the gatehouse is a unwritten rule, but is there a curfew?

Communism 101, well the failed version that the ussr used anyway

Maybe there were lots of rules once, but I'm guessing it's been boiled down to this one:

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."




Perhaps this mysterious Randy is the person that saved Michael's life at the water tower. Who knows. Gah, I need another episode. It's too early too tell.

I dig this theory. Sounds plausible.

[Beaumont]

This was a cool episode but so frustrating because it only cemented exactly what most of us thought. The colony was not going to be good and I think it may have been a better idea to have one of them not go in and at least be able to relay where they were but now they're stuck for the time being. If Burt had been there no way he was giving up shirley.

[RamblinMike]

This was a cool episode but so frustrating because it only cemented exactly what most of us thought.

It's the payoff. So far KC has been setting up the character of the Tower and its residents against the Colony, and now we're seeing the worlds collide. When the magician pulls the tablecloth, nobody complains that the table's disappeared. Setup and payoff. It's good stuff.

[nikvoodoo]

I know it's obvious, but it hasn't been stated in the discussion yet, but in thinking of our I Told You So 101 lesson earlier, Victor is about to get himself a big ol' I told you so to Michael next chapter. That's where Michael is heading at the end of the episode.

Again, I know that's pretty blatant but nobody has stated it yet.

[nikvoodoo]

i suppose this is the whole perspective argument again, but Marcus isnt exactly the nicest guy in the world, i mean yes dictatorships do offer some benefits, but the people live in tyranny none the less, a broken neck in exchange for a broken nose? that's an extreme set of rules, but i suppose for now those rules have kept those people alive, but there is a reason kc is giving us said perspective.
Dictatorships can offer stability when there is none to be had. One person rises to the top, establishes control and...well basically expects everyone to kiss his butt for the rest of time because he did so. Yes, it is extreme to hang a person for breaking someone's nose but that is the norm of this society. And the reason we get this perspective is so we can see how different and unfair people are treated in the Colony vs. The Tower. Just imagine if Michael had the Colony's rules at the Tower. Riley, Lizzy, Kelly, Kalani, Burt, Pegs, and Saul would all be dead for challenging his authority at some point in time. Oppression of a people works and has worked for centuries....the problem is when a catalyst comes along....





well here's the thing about our revolution, yes we were a bunch of upstarts that took on the british superpower, BUT we did have help. at one of our most crucial moments, France went to war with Britain causing them to divert their attention away from the colonies. So that's why i say that the colony guardians are gong to be distracted by a direct assault from the outside, while michael and his rebel's start a guerilla war from the inside.

Kudos. I raise your grade from a C+ to a B for this argument. :p




as for the maller involvement, my theory is that there will be two fronts in the war on the colony, one direct assault from the front, and a rebellion from within crumbling the colony empire. BUT for that to happen, the tower would need to stage an attack on the colony, and the fact of the matter is, the tower simply lacks the man power for something like that. How many trained offensive soldiers do they have that can do something like this. You've got Burt, Angel, Saul (assuming he gets his medicine), Riley, Lizzy, these are ur leaders, and other than that, you have maybe 20 more people in the tower, but assume that about half of them are in no shape for battle. *cough* Datu n Kalani *cough* plus i'm sure there are tower tenants who arent capable of running and gunning etc. so on a good day the tower can muster up 10-15 ppl. thats ok when on defense, but not enough for a serious threat to the colony. AND BAM maller time. we know what the mallers are capable of, especially their offensive tactics. earlier someone mentioned that the mallers werent going all out on their attack on the tower otherwise they woulda driven an oil tanker to the tower door and blown it up, so anyhoo the mallers have the fire power, and the tower has the intel.

The person who mentioned it wasn't an all out attack was me. The Mallers want the tower for their own. If they wanted it destroyed and its residents to die, they could have done it with ease during the party without ever trying to negotiate.

The one major major major missing component at the moment is the ability to contact the Tower. They are out of radio contact with the Tower, they are not allowed to leave the Colony at the moment and Burt isn't going to send out a search party to find M/P/K. If Michael finds a radio tower in the Colony and can give the Tower a message that they are in real trouble: your Maller/Tower alliance becomes much more of a foregone conclusion. I agree with you that the Tower can not go on any sort of offensive. The Mallers (as we saw) can.

[Beaumont]

It's the payoff. So far KC has been setting up the character of the Tower and its residents against the Colony, and now we're seeing the worlds collide. When the magician pulls the tablecloth, nobody complains that the table's disappeared. Setup and payoff. It's good stuff.

They really haven't set them against the Colony until this episode. It really could have went either way once they were inside, even though we were all suspicious, but given the circumstances thus far every character should be much more cautious than they have been. They really didn't have many options given injuries and transport so they had to step inside and if Michael can be given some sort of authority inside "The Colony" that is really going to be the only play they have at the moment other than random recon they can get from seeing and speaking to the others. I'm sure not all the people there agree with how things are being run and might be following due to fear of the outside or just not having any other options.

[mascaria]

I don't see a teamup against the colony exactly. I see a rescue of the colony - not necessarily bringing them out of the colony, but saving them from the commie dictatorship they've got going on there. I'd hate to see a bunch of forced slaves fighting for that bastard Marcus.


We don't really know what the internal economy of The Colony is so we can't really call it a communism. Since there are trading posts and it seems that things are run on barter we can be pretty sure that it's not communistic.


well the reason the mallers came a knockin on our tower's front door was because they needed a new place to stay, and that's exactly how there could be a maller team up with the tower.

Do you really believe that's all the Mallers wanted? Not for nothing but if you wanted to take a place over, maybe pipe bombs would be left at home?

[Kc]

that Shaun/Shawn/Sean went back for?
For the record, it's Sean.

[nikvoodoo]

Do you really believe that's all the Mallers wanted? Not for nothing but if you wanted to take a place over, maybe pipe bombs would be left at home?

No, but I would guess that the best plan the Mallers could come up with is Take over first, but if that fails, kill the enemy. If the Tower people are gone, there's more supplies for the Mallers to take for themselves and not have to worry about competition. The Mallers are a group founded on what they know: violence. Even there attempts at negotiation were hostile. Listen to Durai as he "negotiates" with the Tower. It's all threats. I'm not surprised at all they resorted to the tactics they used.

[Zombiehead]

Think Road Warrior. I'm pretty sure the guy in the hockey mask was an understanding and trust worthy person as well. After all, he did try to negotiate too. <br />
<br />
I don't see Michael (OR Burt) saying...

[Ra1th]

Think Road Warrior. I'm pretty sure the guy in the hockey mask was an understanding and trust worthy person as well. After all, he did try to negotiate too.

I don't see Michael (OR Burt) saying to the Mallers. "It's okay that you tried to kill me and my girlfriend and take all my stuff and try to get one of my other friends to pay you with sex for fuel tank. And about that thing with trying to burn me alive..... It's all water under the bridge now! Come live where I sleep."

oh no by no means do i mean that the tower and the mallers become buddy buddy, live together in the colony. i'm just saying it's possible for a momentary alliance to take down a bigger enemy. I'm saying that the tower's future lies in Hope and finding the second tower, while the mallers get the colony. And although i can see michael holding a grudge against the mallers, i dont see him having any real input in that particular aspect of the plan, he's probably going to be stuck inside the colony doing his revolution thing, while Burt and Angel plan out the attack on the colony, and just knowing burt, i get the feeling he'd be down for a momentary team up with the mallers.

but once again there is the moral issue of what happens to the people living under tyranny in the colony if the mallers take over

[eraesir]

When I was listening I thought Marucs might have been skirting the subject of his military past not because it was a lie, but maybe because it was a darker subject you would not tell someone when trying to get them on your side. Maybe torture or something? Michael might know what he was up to if he gave him more information. His morality seems to be by almost any means necessary, and we have seen how he treats people, so maybe he got in trouble for his brand of ethics back in the normal world. Also, what sort of person outside of a cop or someone in the military would think of tasers in this situation? I doubt that would do much against a zombie, and seems to be only useful for keeping people in line. Also, something is fishy about Marcus telling Michael that he cant leave because he might tell others about the colony. Why would he kick out Hope then? Her blindness makes her less of a threat but there must of been others incapable of contributing as in Marcus' eyes. Something tells me those people are taken care of once the leave, one way or another.

[Zombiehead]

Would you give a fortress to a bunch of people who couldn't be trusted? Especially knowing that your own people are struggling back home. True I would like see them run into cannibals at some point....

[Wicked Sid]

Bow chick wow wow. That is all, thank you for you time.

P.S. Really great episode, as always.

P.P.S. Sean was murdered.

[Ra1th]

Would you give a fortress to a bunch of people who couldn't be trusted? Especially knowing that your own people are struggling back home. True I would like see them run into cannibals at some point. Maybe next season. They're one up on the psycho entertainment charts ahead of mad scientists. Anyway I'm going to stop theorizing for now before I start going into my wild ideas of Angel and Scratch hooking up. I'll just keep pacing until next Monday.

angel and scratch?!?! *gasps in horror!*

i dont see the tower moving into the colony, even after the revolution, cause there are too many mysteries in LA that have yet to be solved. INK is still there, ground zero is still there, and the mystery of the second tower is still there, i think by giving the mallers a fortress far far away, you could probably keep them out of your business.

[nikvoodoo]

angel and scratch?!?! *gasps in horror!*

Well, Angel did just get all cut up by that window.....maybe he'll end up with matching scars and they'll be perfect together.

[Ra1th]

When I was listening I thought Marucs might have been skirting the subject of his military past not because it was a lie, but maybe because it was a darker subject you would not tell someone when trying to get them on your side. Maybe torture or something? Michael might know what he was up to if he gave him more information. His morality seems to be by almost any means necessary, and we have seen how he treats people, so maybe he got in trouble for his brand of ethics back in the normal world. Also, what sort of person outside of a cop or someone in the military would think of tasers in this situation? I doubt that would do much against a zombie, and seems to be only useful for keeping people in line. Also, something is fishy about Marcus telling Michael that he cant leave because he might tell others about the colony. Why would he kick out Hope then? Her blindness makes her less of a threat but there must of been others incapable of contributing as in Marcus' eyes. Something tells me those people are taken care of once the leave, one way or another.

i dont think that's the case, at all. He didnt know what MOS was, and michael had to restate the question in civilian terms, ill bet anythign he's lying about his military ties to establish his authority.

who would think of using tazers? not that hard to think of. THink about slavery, they were kept in line by fear of whips, modernize it, and make it a little less horrific, and you've got tazers. that could just be anyone, doesnt have to be military or police

he wont kick out michael because michael is EXTREMELY valuable! so valuable that michael was offered second in command. Hope cant do anything... i hate to be that guy, but she's blind, she's not very useful. Should she be thrown out of the colony, she'll be eaten really fast. and there very well may have been others who were "useless" in Marcus's eyes and got kicked out, the reason hope wasnt, was because Tanya stood up for her.

what tells u that the people thrown out of the colony are taken care of? we've seen nothing of another group of survivors near the colony, if ur thrown out into the zombie apocalypse, ur screwed

[Adogg]

Ra1th and Adogg, I will need to see you after class......(and Adogg, I'm not even sure what your I told you so was for. Write it in a two page essay by class time tomorrow...).......

Your gonna make me find my "Rescue signs are bad" posts aren't you? Remember my whole theory on funneling the living into a kill zone? Place cars to block off entrances (not for Zombies but for other cars)?....


I recommended NOT going into the way they wanted you to (ie, following the signs, unblocked roads) so that Michael/Pegs/Kelly could pick their terms for meeting the "rescue" people.


TOLD YOU SO! :D

[nikvoodoo]

Your gonna make me find my "Rescue signs are bad" posts aren't you? Remember my whole theory on funneling the living into a kill zone? Place cars to block off entrances (not for Zombies but for other cars)?....
I recommended NOT going into the way they wanted you to (ie, following the signs, unblocked roads) so that Michael/Pegs/Kelly could pick their terms for meeting the "rescue" people.
TOLD YOU SO! :D
I don't think it's a funnel to a kill zone, but it certainly did seem like a convoluted path to discourage random exploration into the colony's home base. The weird thing about this whole thing right now with your theory to me: If they do indeed want people to follow the signs, why all the secrecy and not wanting more people to know about the colony. If they truly wanted to stay hidden and rebuild/repopulate (bow chica wow wow!) wouldn't they want to take down those rescue signs? The fewer people who follow the signs, the fewer people know about the Colony. That appears to be a main bullet point of the Colony's Mission Statement.
Sorry I missed this theory on the other threads and thanks for catching me up!
While this is not a two page essay, I will accept this as your homework assignment. ;)

[Adogg]

I don't think it's a funnel to a kill zone, but it certainly did seem like a convoluted path to discourage random exploration into the colony's home base. The weird thing about this whole thing right now with your theory to me: If they do indeed want people to follow the signs, why all the secrecy and not wanting more people to know about the colony. If they truly wanted to stay hidden and rebuild/repopulate (bow chica wow wow!) wouldn't they want to take down those rescue signs? The fewer people who follow the signs, the fewer people know about the Colony. That appears to be a main bullet point of the Colony's Mission Statement.
Sorry I missed this theory on the other threads and thanks for catching me up!
While this is not a two page essay, I will accept this as your homework assignment. ;)

They would use the funneled entrance to bring in new people like new prisoners. Think of it live walking in a canyon single file with armed guards above you on both canyon walls. If they don't see your value then they seperate you and kill you.

On another note, Marcus doesn't need Michael's military training. He's lying. Marcus killed Sean because Marcus was using something/someone to make Sean do the bad things that Marcus wanted. Sean eventually had enough and lost that thing/person or stopped caring. So Marcus killed him before he destabilized him.

Marcus needs a replacement but he can't just promote someone. In comes Michael. Sure the military training gives him some "street cred" but the real reason is Michael came strolling in with his "someone". Then just to make it painfully obvious to the Colony that Michael would do anything for Pegs, he goes and beats up a guy in the middle of the Colony. Marcus knew about this love and sees it as a way to make Michael do whatever he wants, thus letting Marcus be the "good cop".

Therefore, Pegs will have to stay but Kelly will be the one to get out with Saul's meds and alert the Tower. Only she will get back there and find an empty tower. They moved on to the Military Training Base thinking that Michael/Pegs/Kelly died (logically since Kelly will not be able to get out for sometime). Thus Kelly will now have to get to the now-relocated tower OR admit that she was the traitor and get help from the remaining Mallers. I think the later.

How close am I, KC?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

OK Troops, my turn.
Marcus.. lie lie lie! I'm USAF and even I know what the MOS means for the Army. You NEVER forget what your career field was. NEVER!
The Colony is run like a Slave Plantation or at the very least a Debtors prison with a few differences. The supervisors/Foremen don't use lethal force. Guardians aren't very overt in the way you see in a chain gang movie, but they're around for general security.
The Colony is ripe for internal strife, but not straight take over. Mike could shank Marcus and he'd have a civil war on his hands. However, if he discredits Marcus publicly.... the population will lose confidence in his leadership.
Prior to that though, Pegs or Kelly can slip over a wall with enough planning and supplies. Once they get back to the tower they can tell Burt and crew about the Colony and plan. This will all be part of Mike's overall strategy. What we call SALUTE. Size, Activity, Location, Unit, Time, Equipment..
Burt and a few will already be in place when Mike makes his move. Bloodless Coup.

[Chelsea C.]

Ahahaha! First off, you really tickled me when Pegs was hit with a stun-gun!!!! I guess I'm a mean person, but I loved it more than the shovel attack.

Overall, the episode did not disappoint (as usual). I'm greatly intrigued by Marcus; it's obvious he's lying. I'm not sure I can blame him, though. Leader is a tough role to fill.

[nikvoodoo]

Here's another fun thought about this episode: Think of how much Pegs has grown up since she first arrived. If she had gone on this mission before this maturation she's gone through she would have immediately spilled the beans about the Tower thinking she was being helpful. She acted very strong in the face of adversity when people asked her questions about where she came from. Both she and Kelly (apparently) sidestepped and gave vague answers to protect their home. That's a great development in what she's learned from Michael since the beginning of the outbreak.

[Ra1th]

i'm no pegs fan either BUT i was pissed when she got tazed, like who do you think you are tazing one of ours, and then michael beat him with a shovel that was satisfying

[Chelsea C.]

Here's another fun thought about this episode: Think of how much Pegs has grown up since she first arrived. If she had gone on this mission before this maturation she's gone through she would have immediately spilled the beans about the Tower thinking she was being helpful. She acted very strong in the face of adversity when people asked her questions about where she came from. Both she and Kelly (apparently) sidestepped and gave vague answers to protect their home. That's a great development in what she's learned from Michael since the beginning of the outbreak.

Good points. I understand they've grown, and I really appreciate the character development, but it doesn't change the fact I do not like Pegs (and probably never will). All I can blame it on is personality incompatibility. I'd never hang out with someone like her in real life, so naturally, I do not enjoy listening to her.

As for Kelly, I never disliked her. I always found her pretty entertaining.

@ Ra1th: The taser-ing was so unexpected I couldn't help but laugh. It came out of nowhere! XD

[nikvoodoo]

Good points. I understand they've grown, and I really appreciate the character development, but it doesn't change the fact I do not like Pegs (and probably never will). All I can blame it on is personality incompatibility. I'd never hang out with someone like her in real life, so naturally, I do not enjoy listening to her.

As for Kelly, I never disliked her. I always found her pretty entertaining.


I've already gone off in the "Characters you hate" thread about why I don't hate any of the characters. As long as you have a good enough reason, you can hate whomever you like. I'm not trying to say Pegs growth will change anyone's mind about her. I'm just pointing out how much more mature she has become as a survivor and quite frankly as a soldier in this conflict since she was rescued off the flower shop roof.

[Ra1th]

Good points. I understand they've grown, and I really appreciate the character development, but it doesn't change the fact I do not like Pegs (and probably never will). All I can blame it on is personality incompatibility. I'd never hang out with someone like her in real life, so naturally, I do not enjoy listening to her.

As for Kelly, I never disliked her. I always found her pretty entertaining.

@ Ra1th: The taser-ing was so unexpected I couldn't help but laugh. It came out of nowhere! XD

OH i'm the exact same way with datu, if/when datu dies a terrible death i'll be laughing

[Chelsea C.]

I've already gone off in the "Characters you hate" thread about why I don't hate any of the characters. As long as you have a good enough reason, you can hate whomever you like. I'm not trying to say Pegs growth will change anyone's mind about her. I'm just pointing out how much more mature she has become as a survivor and quite frankly as a soldier in this conflict since she was rescued off the flower shop roof.

There is no disputing that she's grown tremendously since the beginning of the story. And, really, steady progress is all you can ask of a character. So, you're right.

I know I'm being harsh. I don't want to sound like a broken Pegs Basher; I just found that scene super hilarious is all :)





OH i'm the exact same way with datu, if/when datu dies a terrible death i'll be laughing

Seriously, I can hear the scene with Datu unfolding now in my head! I'm already chuckling! :D

[Ryan]

They would use the funneled entrance to bring in new people like new prisoners. Think of it live walking in a canyon single file with armed guards above you on both canyon walls. If they don't see your value then they seperate you and kill you.
The signs were pointing to the evac site which the colony was eventually built around. Why they didn't take the signs down, who knows. Maybe there are just bigger fish to fry in the whole zombie apocalypse thing.

[Reddeyez32]

I think gatekeeper is going to have a part in the story to come. Maybe a little jealousy cause Michael took his job he could of had. Marcus told Michael gatekeeper was the next decision in the offered job. Maybe he will have no problem letting Michael and the girls leave so he can have the position.

[VeritableHero]

I think gatekeeper is going to have a part in the story to come. Maybe a little jealousy cause Michael took his job he could of had. Marcus told Michael gatekeeper was the next decision in the offered job. Maybe he will have no problem letting Michael and the girls leave so he can have the position.Maybe he'll find a way to get Micheal killed (or try) just like he did to Sean?

Obviously this is speculation.

[Hollomandious]

I don't think were gonna see them leave the colony this chapter. I think Marcus is going to hold Michael to the answer he gave when he shoveled Bixby. And he'll use Pegs as incentive.

I also think Marcus didn't have Sean killed. I'm w/ the gatekeeper trying to get promoted thing. Cause Marcus didn't seem to want gatekeeper in the possition. His demeanor changed when he said he needed a replacement. Sounded like real frustration w/ the whole situation. If he'd a done it, he'da had a play for the replacement (that he liked).

Eh?

[Adogg]

The signs were pointing to the evac site which the colony was eventually built around. Why they didn't take the signs down, who knows. Maybe there are just bigger fish to fry in the whole zombie apocalypse thing.

... but they had time/resources to BLOCK the roads to cars (not zombies)? Don't kid yourself. They left those signs up on purpose.

[nikvoodoo]

I don't think were gonna see them leave the colony this chapter. I think Marcus is going to hold Michael to the answer he gave when he shoveled Bixby. And he'll use Pegs as incentive.

I also think Marcus didn't have Sean killed. I'm w/ the gatekeeper trying to get promoted thing. Cause Marcus didn't seem to want gatekeeper in the possition. His demeanor changed when he said he needed a replacement. Sounded like real frustration w/ the whole situation. If he'd a done it, he'da had a play for the replacement (that he liked).
Eh?

By the sounds of it, Marcus couldn't have Sean killed...at least not out in the open. Sean seems to have been well liked by everyone, or at least respected. If Marcus had openly caused Sean's death it would turn Sean into a martyr and would be exactly what the huddled masses need to rally against their oppressors. So if he did have Sean killed it would have to be in a subtle way like having his safe house compromised so it looks like the zombies got him, not sabotage. Or if you want to say the Gatekeeper made a power grab, he barred Sean's team entrance at the Gate and allowed them to die. Because honestly, who monitors the Gatekeeper as he performs his job? To our knowledge now: Nobody.


... but they had time/resources to BLOCK the roads to cars (not zombies)? Don't kid yourself. They left those signs up on purpose.

We only saw one path into the Colony. The roads up until M/P/K took a bathroom break were accessible. To get to that safehouse, they had to run into an alley which generally aren't accessible to cars anyway. The Colony may make themselves inaccessible to cars, but didn't do anything to prevent people from skirting around their territory. Think of it like the Eastern Bloc that The U.S.S.R. set up. You can travel freely around the outside of the bloc, but getting inside it is far more difficult. And unless the Colony is along the coastline, there should be multiple ways to their compound from all directions. We've only seen one way in.

And a reason they might not have taken the signs down is simple. Marcus only allows small scavenging teams out and not very far. They might not be allowed to go out far enough to take the signs down. Remember that Michael asked Kelly if she wanted to take a break from driving (implying that they had been doing so for a long time) but she was too excited by the signs. That would be quite the hike on foot, especially since the point we met Victor and Fernando is 2 miles from the Colony.

[Ra1th]

That seems like a very big flaw to just overlook. Im with Adogg on this one, i think there is a point tO those signs being there other than we lacked the resources to take it down. Marcus seems ruthless i dont think he'd mind sacrificing a few men so those signs could come down. There is the whole dont wabder too far thing but i think there has to be exceptions to it.

Which brings me to another question i had. Why cant individuals leave? Where would they go?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Remember Marcus said the only people who are let out are the Scavenger teams.. and not very far. The signs would not have been a priority for anyone, plus they were set up PRIOR to the Colony being built. When you're concentrating on staying alive, how important will a number of signs miles and miles out be? Who knows, they could have been spray painted anyway.
Most people there seemed to have forgotten about them anyway.
- I don't think Marcus would have killed Saun, then turn around an look for a replacement. He may seem like a super ass, but he's not showing any overt violent tendencies. Just a hard on for order.
- If Marcus NEEDED a replacement, then the Gatekeeper would have gone right in by defaut. He didn't, even though he seems to be drinking the koolaide.
- Another thing is why even need a replacement? Marcus could have set himself up as the sole ruler/leader. He didn't do that.
Why?
- The other thing is that Saun had a team with him. According to Pete, his team bought it during the Wave that got Fernando. It happened quick as hell.

[nikvoodoo]

That seems like a very big flaw to just overlook. Im with Adogg on this one, i think there is a point tO those signs being there other than we lacked the resources to take it down. Marcus seems ruthless i dont think he'd mind sacrificing a few men so those signs could come down. There is the whole dont wabder too far thing but i think there has to be exceptions to it.

Which brings me to another question i had. Why cant individuals leave? Where would they go?

Taking spray paint off a wall is no simple task. If it was sprayed on there, I wouldn't want to spend any of my resources to take it off. And there probably aren't exceptions to that rule of don't wander too far. If you wander too far, that means you have a further head start on anyone coming to recapture you should you try to escape the oppressive environment of the colony.

[Adogg]

We only saw one path into the Colony. The roads up until M/P/K took a bathroom break were accessible. ... ... and guarded since it was the only road into the colony.

If they really wanted to 'hide' then how hard is it to send a guy out with a can of spray paint. If it was a priority then it would have been done by such an industrious group. You forget they were already there when they moved a car to block the road. So when they established a roadblock, they saw the sign, and said to themselves it made sense to leave it there. Why? My only conclusion is that Marcus has an unending desire for more servants.

Also, and a point I did not see made already, is that all of the traps along the one path we have seen were marked with instructions on how to get around them. Do you think the traps on the other paths have these instructions? I speculate that they do not.



...Which brings me to another question i had. Why cant individuals leave? Where would they go?

Seems like the best question asked so far. What is so bad that someone has to guard you from running INTO a zombie filled city? That is very scary when you think about it. You would think the threat of banishment (and thus certain grisly death) would be enough of a deterrent from 'misbehaving'.

Broken nose =/= broken neck. It equals worse .... banishment.

[Adogg]

Remember Marcus said the only people who are let out are the Scavenger teams.. and not very far. The signs would not have been a priority for anyone, plus they were set up PRIOR to the Colony being built. When you're concentrating on staying alive, how important will a number of signs miles and miles out be? Who knows, they could have been spray painted anyway.
Most people there seemed to have forgotten about them anyway.
- I don't think Marcus would have killed Saun, then turn around an look for a replacement. He may seem like a super ass, but he's not showing any overt violent tendencies. Just a hard on for order.
- If Marcus NEEDED a replacement, then the Gatekeeper would have gone right in by defaut. He didn't, even though he seems to be drinking the koolaide.
- Another thing is why even need a replacement? Marcus could have set himself up as the sole ruler/leader. He didn't do that.
Why?
- The other thing is that Saun had a team with him. According to Pete, his team bought it during the Wave that got Fernando. It happened quick as hell.

The Russians and Chinese (during WWII) would use the soldiers from groups they did not like for suicide missions. Maybe Marcus did the same thing. I speculate that Marcus does not NEED a second in command but wants a Bad Cop to his Good Cop. Basically, making him look like the nice alternative to a coup.

[kjarman]

There were a lot of disucssions there, a lot to read, especially when I'm at work. But I have a feeling that they may be able to call for help using Victor's help sometime. The fact that he was trying to warn them that they wouldn't want to go to The Colony, gives Michael the impression that he may be able to help. The fact that Victor was one of the "scouts" and is able to leave for missions, I think they'll give him the latest frequency scheduled with Burt, trying to get Victor to get in contact with The Tower. It's a stretch, but since it has been almost a week, Burt may have sent people out to look for the trio and may be in range for that radio frequency. Also, since Victor seems to be one of the few level-headed individuals in The Colony, he may be of further use down the road with The Tower and other survivors.

Just my theory :)

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

KJ,
They're too far away for CB communication. They're a couple days South. A CB may reach 10 miles out at the most. Boy were those things fun to talk on during the 70's! LOL

[nikvoodoo]

... and guarded since it was the only road into the colony.
How was it guarded? And how do we know it's the only road into the colony? There are multiple roads in any major city and multiple ways to get to any location. We only saw one of them.


If they really wanted to 'hide' then how hard is it to send a guy out with a can of spray paint. If it was a priority then it would have been done by such an industrious group. You forget they were already there when they moved a car to block the road. So when they established a roadblock, they saw the sign, and said to themselves it made sense to leave it there. Why? My only conclusion is that Marcus has an unending desire for more servants.

No, I didn't forget the signs would be there when the road block was set. If the Colony doesn't have access to spray paint, that would make it very difficult to send someone out to cover up the sign. Someone originally had access to black spray paint to make the signs. That doesn't mean they have access to it anymore, especially since the organizers of the evac are gone now.


Also, and a point I did not see made already, is that all of the traps along the one path we have seen were marked with instructions on how to get around them. Do you think the traps on the other paths have these instructions? I speculate that they do not.

But evidently the Colony isn't aware of the smart ones that can comprehend language and talk. Which is why the code is still on the door. They may think they are safe, but that doesn't mean they are. Just because we as listeners know certain things doesn't mean the Colony are aware of the same things. And I would imagine that every path in and out of the colony is booby trapped, and they are all marked so all their scouting parties are safe as they enter and exit the colony.


What is so bad that someone has to guard you from running INTO a zombie filled city?
Who's guarding from running into the city? There are towers overlooking the city walls for protection....I'm confused by that statement.


That is very scary when you think about it. You would think the threat of banishment (and thus certain grisly death) would be enough of a deterrent from 'misbehaving'.
Banishment isn't an option (except for Hope who would most certainly die without help). If you are banished, you might find another group of survivors, and you might clue them into The Colony's existence and location...

and we are now back to yours and my fundamental disagreement. Marcus doesn't want anyone other than who he already has to be in the Colony. You disagree. Mainly the reason I think he doesn't want new people: Look how quickly the new people cause turbulence in the everyday happenings of the Colony. Michael screwed up Bixby's face. The scary thing about oppression is how people will let it happen to them if it happens slowly and incrementally. If you walk into that system after it's well established you'll resist giving up your freedoms and buying into the system. New People=Unrest....or A Catalyst if you will..

[Adogg]

I see your point. But you've got to admit, that a can of ANY paint would be fairly easy to come by. And if Marcus' goal is to "turtle up" then this little detail overlooked will surely lead to his demise. I mean some distance greater than 2 miles away is a sign pointing to their location ...

Of course what would make the turtle theory work (for me) is if the Colony did not block the roads ... what if either the Zombies or other humans were trying to prevent humans from getting there (or getting out)? If you've ever played Left 4 Dead and had a tank throw a car at you, then you have to ask yourself why couldn't a big nasty one nudge a car into the road? Heck, a smart one drove a tanker. What if that was part of a larger plan by "INK" to isolate the colony? Or prevent their rescue (maybe to Sea?). Or if the scouts are trying to prevent more from coming into the camp. That would mean the Colony has truly been holed up and was not right next to the sign placing roadblocks but leaving rescue signs up.

Also, my point about the guarding is that the threat of being fed to the Zombies should negate the need to have armed guards over the work crews. Instead we have a situation sooo bad that we can assume at least some of the people would gladly choose to temp fate on their own then stay there. Now, we get to see how bad that is ....

[Kc]

KJ,
They're too far away for CB communication. They're a couple days South. A CB may reach 10 miles out at the most. Boy were those things fun to talk on during the 70's! LOL
I will confirm, since I haven't released the map yet, they are too far away with standard CB radio.

[nikvoodoo]

I see your point. But you've got to admit, that a can of ANY paint would be fairly easy to come by. And if Marcus' goal is to "turtle up" then this little detail overlooked will surely lead to his demise. I mean some distance greater than 2 miles away is a sign pointing to their location ...

Of course what would make the turtle theory work (for me) is if the Colony did not block the roads ... what if either the Zombies or other humans were trying to prevent humans from getting there (or getting out)? If you've ever played Left 4 Dead and had a tank throw a car at you, then you have to ask yourself why couldn't a big nasty one nudge a car into the road? Heck, a smart one drove a tanker. What if that was part of a larger plan by "INK" to isolate the colony? Or prevent their rescue (maybe to Sea?). Or if the scouts are trying to prevent more from coming into the camp. That would mean the Colony has truly been holed up and was not right next to the sign placing roadblocks but leaving rescue signs up.

Also, my point about the guarding is that the threat of being fed to the Zombies should negate the need to have armed guards over the work crews. Instead we have a situation sooo bad that we can assume at least some of the people would gladly choose to temp fate on their own then stay there. Now, we get to see how bad that is ....

I will readily admit that a can of paint could be very easy to come by even in one of the houses they are squatting in. And I'm starting to formulate the idea that Marcus has a tremendous amount of arrogance. A hallmark of arrogance is one's overlooking something obvious that one believes to be unimportant. Marcus' oversight of the signs could indeed lead to his downfall by leading Michael to him. Besides, after a little while, they didn't expect to see anyone else from up North. If they thought everyone up there was dead, there'd be no need to even worry about the signs at all.

I will also readily admit that I personally don't have enough information to say why the roads are blocked. I can only theorize why they were. Without seeing if all the roadblocks forced every survivor traveling via car a specific route, I'm not willing to say that the Colony is funneling people in. Michael says when they hit the roadblock that there are too many ways to get out. That means there are many different options they could have taken. Lets say for instance that you're heading south (as MPK were). You hit a road block. You have three options: Go back North, Go West, Go East. If they chose West: they head to the colony. They chose east: They never reach the colony. They chose North: They never reach the Colony.

I really don't think The One With the Markings (I'm retreating from calling him Ink now a days until he's confirmed as such) has visited this far south...yet. I'm going again by the code on the door. The Colony doesn't know any better....yet.

I don't think the Guardians are necessarily watching over the crews working. They happen to have weapons and are on higher ground giving them a power position. But they had to have their attention called to the altercation by The Supervisor. If they had been watching the whole time, and had orders to stop incidents like this from happening they would have shot Michael dead immediately before he had a chance to snap off a second shovel hit and a witty comment.

[Ra1th]

I will confirm, since I haven't released the map yet, they are too far away with standard CB radio.

perhaps the yacht and it's radio will play a role

[Teethingbiscuit]

Perhaps they do know Voodo. Know, that is, about the code on the door, after all there is redundancy and, "you know what will happen if there are more of you in the room than you said were coming in" from the gatekeeper. Perhaps the Colonists are baiting them a bit. (Rally cry,"GET THE SMARTIES!!)
For the story's sake I hope they don't fully understand what they are up against. As for humanity perhaps it is time for an evolution.:(
Teeth

[nikvoodoo]

Perhaps they do know Voodo. Know, that is, about the code on the door, after all there is redundancy and, "you know what will happen if there are more of you in the room than you said were coming in" from the gatekeeper. Perhaps the Colonists are baiting them a bit. (Rally cry,"GET THE SMARTIES!!)
For the story's sake I hope they don't fully understand what they are up against. As for humanity perhaps it is time for an evolution.:(
Teeth

You know, originally I thought that as well (and I'm sure I posted it on the boards somewhere), but now it seems like "If there are more than 4 of you, you know what will happen...." and the "what will happen" is any extra people who come into that room will be turned away, or even possibly killed. Not to mention you, as a Colony member, have just broken a rule and will be punished severely. It always seemed like an extra safeguard against some intelligent marauding zombie who had taken a recon team hostage. Now I think it's yet one more measure of control Marcus wields over the Colony and its occupants.

[Zombiehead]

@Kj
I considered that an option as well. For now the Tower doesn't have any idea that there's something wrong. Hopefully Angel's instincts will kick in and he'll lead a team to search for them. Maybe even find the clues in the house where they stayed. They left in a rush afterall.

@KC
I gave this part another listen. I like the music and ambience. Sound effects were very well done. I clapped like an idiot at the shovel part.


Here's another fun thought about this episode: Think of how much Pegs has grown up since she first arrived. If she had gone on this mission before this maturation she's gone through she would have immediately spilled the beans about the Tower thinking she was being helpful. She acted very strong in the face of adversity when people asked her questions about where she came from. Both she and Kelly (apparently) sidestepped and gave vague answers to protect their home. That's a great development in what she's learned from Michael since the beginning of the outbreak.

Trauma changes people.

One thing I did like about Marcus was that he told Michael something about his leadership. I wish one of the others had said that to him a long time ago. Maybe this experience at the Colony will change him too.

[Onslaught]

I liked the new episode It gave me a lot of ideas. I'm gonna think them over before I post them though, I was also wondering if Michael was asleep for four days then thats more than enough time for Kalani and Angel to get back to the tower.

I need some time to think...

[nikvoodoo]

@Kj
I considered that an option as well. For now the Tower doesn't have any idea that there's something wrong. Hopefully Angel's instincts will kick in and he'll lead a team to search for them. Maybe even find the clues in the house where they stayed. They left in a rush afterall.

This could be the way ra1th's deepest dream comes true. Burt is not going to approve a search and rescue mission at all. No way, no how. But if Angel seizes control, he might do it....unless he remembers his military training and thinks of the big picture.




Trauma changes people.

One thing I did like about Marcus was that he told Michael something about his leadership. I wish one of the others had said that to him a long time ago. Maybe this experience at the Colony will change him too.

Trauma does change people, I'm just glad to see Pegs starting to show that survivor mentality now. She's shooting when she has to shoot, and she's protecting people by not giving out information readily.

How sad that it takes Marcus to instill Michael's confidence in himself. Michael is a natural leader.

[nikvoodoo]

I liked the new episode It gave me a lot of ideas. I'm gonna think them over before I post them though, I was also wondering if Michael was asleep for four days then thats more than enough time for Kalani and Angel to get back to the tower.

I need some time to think...
4 days is more than enough time for Angel and Kalani to make it back. They made it to the Refueling Station and the army base in one day. You'd think they'd be back unless something happened on the way back, or if Kc is taking liberties with the timing of things between The Colony and the Tower plot lines. Though as of now it seems like they are both coexisting time wise.

[Dtran]

just stating the obvious that Marcus is such a liar.He never served in the army. During his convo with Michael i am sure his answers were taken from sean's background thats why he didnt know what M.O.S. meant when michael asked him.

Also not sure if this was mentioned but do you think that whole entire incident with pegs and the shovel was marcus's way to get michael to accept the job?

another thing, victor is so the key guy for michael's escape.

i like the colony story arch so far but seriously we need an update about the tower and SAUL!!!!!

[Funny Muffins]

Unless that tazer belonged to Pegs originally and I've misread Marcus completely then I think that is just how people are kept in line in these parts.
(Notice how the guardians responded to the call quickly and how everyone seemed to have a "role")

Very nice ideas all around, but I think having all this time between episodes is leading us into some of these judgments too quickly.

For example:
What if Marcus has never left since establishing home base?
What if the signs are actually there without his knowing? (Came from the other direction? Weren't up when he came in? Sean installed them without a word and was demoted for that?)

No one seems to want to talk about those signs let alone anything Colony.
Here is our antithesis to The Tower..

[cPT.cAPSLOCK]

Also not sure if this was mentioned but do you think that whole entire incident with pegs and the shovel was marcus's way to get michael to accept the job?

Nah, I don't think so. She got tazed because she was talking with Michael instead of working. Michael then had to say he was filling the position, or else the guardians would royally kick his ass. Also, it gave him the power to protect Pegs and Kelly better, and some other privileges he can abuse to get them out of there.

[zombiekiller]

Listened to the episode Monday. It was a great one, When Michael hit that guy with the shovel I was like hell yeah. But I agree with the others I would like to hear an update on Saul and the tower.

[RamblinMike]

As an aside, some were wondering what Hope spilled all over Marcus. One person speculated that it might be blood, but on a second listen, I think it was urine and possible poop. Tanya had just asked Hope to go and change somebody's bedpan. This would also account for Hope's extreme embarrassment and for Marcus' freak-out.

[Britt]

As an aside, some were wondering what Hope spilled all over Marcus. One person speculated that it might be blood, but on a second listen, I think it was urine and possible poop. Tanya had just asked Hope to go and change somebody's bedpan. This would also account for Hope's extreme embarrassment and for Marcus' freak-out.

I assumed it was piss as well. Serves him right.

[Onslaught]

Ok i'm gonna put one of my thoughts out there,

if Michael Pegs and Kelly do escape then what will the colony do? I've thought this over and Marcus doesn't seem to be a good leader so this means that if/when they do escape I think they're gonna be followed and the tower is gonna have more problems than just the mallers and the zombies.

This also means that mallers would become aware of the colony although I doubt they would want to go up against something so big, but then again, the colony doesn't have many guns, and the ones they do have are locked up.

This also brings up an idea of mine that there could be espionage. Look how easily M/P/K were picked up and how easily they got in. If some mallers did want to sabotage the colony it wouldn't be that hard.

Alright, I'm done rambling.

[Zombiehead]

Since I'm becoming antsy over this last chapter I went skimming through old parts looking for facts and references that pertain to what's currently happening. I relistened to Chapter 3 where Michael laid out the Rules and Regulations. If you think about it and do a little comparing from what information was given about the Colony, Michael's rules aren't too far off of what's going on. Everyone has to pull their weight, there's division heads and crews, but everything is done on a much larger scale to keep things thriving. The only known (and obvious) difference is that people can't leave, they are judged by their usefulness, and it's being run like a sweat shop. If this Shaun guy was the "fair" one then is Marcus playing the "bad" guy to keep people in line? Perhaps Marcus knows this and needs someone like Michael to maintain order. Ugh! I need to know what's in Pegs journal and have another conversation with this Marcus fellow.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Howdy all,

I think the job assignments are luck of the draw.. or unluck. Pegs could have very well ended up doing laundry instead of Kelly. I think the weed pulling job just happens to be so mission crucial that EVERYONE has to work. There can be no perception of slacking.. or taking a break when it isn't break time.

[nikvoodoo]

I assumed it was piss as well. Serves him right.

Had to be pee. If it was....other things that might be in a bedpan, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have had to ask if it was what he thought it was...he'd probably just know...and he'd probably have just broken Hope's neck out of anger (joking)

[Ra1th]

As an aside, some were wondering what Hope spilled all over Marcus. One person speculated that it might be blood, but on a second listen, I think it was urine and possible poop. Tanya had just asked Hope to go and change somebody's bedpan. This would also account for Hope's extreme embarrassment and for Marcus' freak-out.

i guess that kinda makes sense why he freaked out over it, i thought tanya had made hope go make coffee, and then she spilled coffee on him,

accidents happen and alll but i suppose if i had that happen to me, i'd flip too (it kinda makes the character less of a douche now, just cause i assumed he was mad because of coffee)

[Ra1th]

Howdy all,

I think the job assignments are luck of the draw.. or unluck. Pegs could have very well ended up doing laundry instead of Kelly. I think the weed pulling job just happens to be so mission crucial that EVERYONE has to work. There can be no perception of slacking.. or taking a break when it isn't break time.

pegs may have specifically asked for a job working in the field and they prly let her because of her background in botany, kelly... lawyers are kinda useless

[StepLaugh]

For the record, it's Sean.

That clears some things up.

[Adogg]

Since I'm becoming antsy over this last chapter I went skimming through old parts looking for facts and references that pertain to what's currently happening. I relistened to Chapter 3 where Michael laid out the Rules and Regulations. If you think about it and do a little comparing from what information was given about the Colony, Michael's rules aren't too far off of what's going on. Everyone has to pull their weight, there's division heads and crews, but everything is done on a much larger scale to keep things thriving. The only known (and obvious) difference is that people can't leave, they are judged by their usefulness, and it's being run like a sweat shop. If this Shaun guy was the "fair" one then is Marcus playing the "bad" guy to keep people in line? Perhaps Marcus knows this and needs someone like Michael to maintain order. Ugh! I need to know what's in Pegs journal and have another conversation with this Marcus fellow. Agreed. What's the difference between Michael's rules and him saying no one is leaving? The line in my mind seems to be in respect of the individual. Sure you have to work but Michael & Co never threatened to hurt someone if they didn't. He did show Kelly the door but that's about it as far as we know. Still seems like a clear right/wrong line was crossed by the Tazer-gate. It’s just hard to articulate why Michael’s rules are ok but Marcus’ rules are not.


pegs may have specifically asked for a job working in the field and they prly let her because of her background in botany, kelly... lawyers are kinda uselessThat's what I thought as well. It seems like something she would have jumped to do. But now thinking about it, didn't she say they told her what to do?



Had to be pee. If it was....other things that might be in a bedpan, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have had to ask if it was what he thought it was...he'd probably just know...and he'd probably have just broken Hope's neck out of anger (joking)
LOL .... Yeah, I had a mental picture of a pressed suit, clean shaven guy who had a big pee stain on his Colonel Sanders style white jacket. :D

[Hollomandious]

Bixby.

I don't think he's a bad guy. He was just doing his job. And then Michael has to go and hit him w/ a shovel? Comon, man... that's not right. (tho it was cool). You could even hear it after he did it, he sounded like he didn't like doing it. Kept stating, "i'm, within my rights..." which i translated to say, "comon man, i'm just doing my job. if i don't, imma get the tazer myself." And he gave her multiple chances to get back to work.

And comon, who didn't laugh a little bit when he hit her w/ the tazer. You know you did. Don't lie.

Anyone with me?

[TCM Revolver]

Bixby.

I don't think he's a bad guy. He was just doing his job. And then Michael has to go and hit him w/ a shovel? Comon, man... that's not right. (tho it was cool). You could even hear it after he did it, he sounded like he didn't like doing it. Kept stating, "i'm, within my rights..." which i translated to say, "comon man, i'm just doing my job. if i don't, imma get the tazer myself." And he gave her multiple chances to get back to work.

And comon, who didn't laugh a little bit when he hit her w/ the tazer. You know you did. Don't lie.

Anyone with me?

I'm not a violent man, but if you hit my lady with a tazer, you better hope a shovel is the only thing I can get a hold of. :mad:

[Dtran]

I'm not a violent man, but if you hit my lady with a tazer, you better hope a shovel is the only thing I can get a hold of. :mad:

hahahahha i second that!

[Chelsea C.]

Bixby.

And comon, who didn't laugh a little bit when he hit her w/ the tazer. You know you did. Don't lie.

Anyone with me?

I laughed! :D

[nikvoodoo]

I laughed! :D

I did too, mainly because I knew Mr. Bixby was about to get his ass kicked by the one armed man. ;)

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Adogg,

Scare people do stupid things. Mad people make bad choices. Kelly learned that when she thought she could just dip from the Tower. Fear will also keep you compliant. Sharing a leader's vision will also keep you compliant.
As far as the SIGNS go:
The were there when there were mass evacuations. The Doc didn't even remember them being there, so i'm betting most of the people that are there have been there since almost the start. The 1st tower people were the last to arrive before Mike and crew arrived.
Marcus wasn't part of the evacuationt team, he was a cat who just got left behind when the choppers stopped coming back.

[SleepyGlenn]

Marcus didn't have a clue what an "MOS" was. He's most def lying about being Army.

For sure!!

[hollowscream666]

dam alot of tips even tho i wasn't sure marcus was in the military but you never know i mean why give the truth when you can give a lie.

[Adogg]

Bixby.

I don't think he's a bad guy. He was just doing his job. And then Michael has to go and hit him w/ a shovel? Comon, man... that's not right. (tho it was cool). You could even hear it after he did it, he sounded like he didn't like doing it. Kept stating, "i'm, within my rights..." which i translated to say, "comon man, i'm just doing my job. if i don't, imma get the tazer myself." And he gave her multiple chances to get back to work.

And comon, who didn't laugh a little bit when he hit her w/ the tazer. You know you did. Don't lie.

Anyone with me?

I heard it the opposite. He was all power trip happy when he did it. As if the thought never crossed his mind that someone would stand up to him.

[Beaumont]

OH i'm the exact same way with datu, if/when datu dies a terrible death i'll be laughing

I have a hard time listening to that accent and not sure what it's supposed to be.

[Ra1th]

I have a hard time listening to that accent and not sure what it's supposed to be.

i've never heard anything like it, and it sounds godawful, i'd be shocked if the actor had that accent in real life.

[Onslaught]

This talk of Bixby reminds me of what my brother says when I play GTA 'you like killing cops? Makes you feel like a big boy, huh? Get up in the morning put on your big boy pants?' He also says it when I kill civilians but he changes it from cops.

Well anyway I think Hollos right, Bixby was just doing his job. If someone higher up in rank tells you to stand at a door and not let anyone through, you probably won't let anyone through, right?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

He was just doing his JOB or "I was just following orders" doesn't fly since the Nazi were beat.

[Shaun McAlister]

I heard it the opposite. He was all power trip happy when he did it. As if the thought never crossed his mind that someone would stand up to him.

I'm with Adogg on this one. We already know that Marcus loves a "strong show of force," and this guy was probably doing exactly as he was told. The difference is, he believes he's doing the right thing and his smug attitude implies that he doesn't mind being a prick to anyone lower on the class ladder.

Hitting Pegs with a taser was completely unnecessary albeit hilarious.. However, I'm surprised one of the guardians didn't put Michael down as soon as shovel met face.

[ZombieKittie]

ok, so ive listened to this episode several times and i still cannot figure out what Pegs says in the very end. something like "wait, ......????". does anyone else know what im talking about and caught what she said. im sure KC wouldn't have put it in there if it wasn't important. your assistance would be much appreciated!

[nikvoodoo]

I thought the same thing about tanya and michael overlapping each other at the gate. But kc shot it down because it made for a more dynamic edit. This could be another such instance. Not saying that it is, but I went down this road before and it was a dead end

[Aerock]

Marcus is a liiiiiiaarrrrr.

I totally agree...


Marcus didn't have a clue what an "MOS" was. He's most def lying about being Army...

That's what clued me in too... I think maybe he killed somebody that was in the Army and then started using his victims story as his own. I'm theorizing that his lies about being a service member mixed in with extreme violence is what rose him to power.


Marcus comes across as a little less forward version of the Governor from The Walking Dead.

I was just thinking the same thing this morning!


My only question is, who's Randy?

Man... I'm definitely hooked! I'm finishing up Chapter 19 for the first time right now. 20, here I come!