Have you noticed this?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I've gone back and listened to a few episodes to help me fill in some blanks and I realized i've learned some new things:

1. Burt had 2 large hand guns when they first picked him up. He had a revolver, which I think was a .357 from the way Saul kept talking about how it could take out about anything. So, he's carrying around Shirley and the revolver (he used it to shoot Bill's shotgun.)
2. The creatures sleep (also from the Burt rescue epi.) This tells us they aren't "DEAD."

3. Some of them feel pain to a certain degree(Behemoth chasing Angel and Kalani uses it arms to block it's head.

4. Some have learned to respect the damage weapons cause them
a. The Behemoth chasing Angel and Saul.
b. "Ink" playing possum until he heard they were out of ammo and the fact he eyeballed Saul's "Knife" and decided to beat feet rather than try a go at them.)

4. Some take and follow orders. This is from the Datu/Sam episodes

5. Michael, Saul and Angel should know they need an alternate place/fall back/escape plan and haven't thought of that need.

6. The creatures are cannibals, so they won't run out of food for a long while.

7. The tower residents didn't go out and collect weapons or ammo from the fallen Mallers after the war.

8. They haven't made an effort to get back to Burt's even though it should be #1 on the priority list now

9. They haven't changed the gate code

10. Michael was an ass before everything went to hell.

[Kc]

7. The tower residents didn't go out and collect weapons or ammo from the fallen Mallers after the war.

9. They haven't changed the gate code

.

#7. They Did, it just hasn't been mentioned. This happened when they burned the bodies. You'll find out when it comes up again.

#9. There isn't a front door at all. It was destroyed beyond repair. The only way in or out any more is the Parking Garage.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Ahhh Ha! Tango for the clarification on those 2 points KC! I thought the parking garage was the area hit the worst because of ramming by the mallers and the cars being stuck in the way. Wait, no... the lobby WAS trashed.
KC, you might not have a Sunshine Band, but you're still the man!

[StepLaugh]

Wow, This is great. A lot of helpful things. The one that scares me the most is that they are cannibals, if true, then it's going to take a lot longer for them to die off.

[Hollomandious]

I've gone back and listened to a few episodes to help me fill in some blanks and I realized i've learned some new things:

I'm in, lets roll...


1. Burt had 2 large hand guns when they first picked him up. He had a revolver, which I think was a .357 from the way Saul kept talking about how it could take out about anything. So, he's carrying around Shirley and the revolver (he used it to shoot Bill's shotgun.)

No. The gun he used Shirley, which is a 50 cal desert eagle. Just listen to the sound effects for when he uses his, "damn hand cannon." it matches when he shoots the shotgun outta bills hands.

I think the other gun he had, was the silenced pistol (which Michael has right now), or just a flyover gun that became part of the armory and then became a non-factor. But, there was a 2nd gun Burt mentioned when he found out about his safe being cracked open. And Scratch has that one (see her locked and loaded comment from 6-1 or 6-2 when they try to take the rigg back).


7. The tower residents didn't go out and collect weapons or ammo from the fallen Mallers after the war.

Hmmm... hadn't thought of that. Maybe they didn't leave much when they ran (cept the fire truck). So then it woulda been a whatever detail.


8. They haven't made an effort to get back to Burt's even though it should be #1 on the priority list now

We've been absent from the story in the tower featuring Burt. Maybe he makes a run at it and it's the next chapter?


9. They haven't changed the gate code

Is there even a door down there anymore. And, right after Latch and Scratch showed up at the tower, Michael said, "first thing in the morning get that code changed."


10. Michael was an ass before everything went to hell.

He was just a bit non-personable. And leaders are always ass-es. That's how they make it to be leaders.

Pegs - Why is everyone we run into an aggressive asshole?!
Michael - Cause all the passive ones are dead.

[nikvoodoo]

I'm in, lets roll...



No. The gun he used Shirley, which is a 50 cal desert eagle. Just listen to the sound effects for when he uses his, "damn hand cannon." it matches when he shoots the shotgun outta bills hands.


Burt did have two guns. In 3-2 he is clutching a revolver. He uses that when Saul got attacked by "one of them smart ones" he asked Saul later if he got the shiny silver gun out of the weapons room, he says yes. When they jump down to the Hummer in the next episode, he uses the revolver again, but then switches to Shirley (the shiny silver one/Desert Eagle) because he was running low on ammo for the revolver. There is a verbal exchange establishing Shirley as the Desert Eagle at 9:00 of 3-3. So Burt came from Locked and Loaded with at least three hand guns: A revolver, the silenced pistol, and Shirley (Desert Eagle).

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Burt also used the revolver when he shot the gun from Bill's hand. You hear him rotate the wheel.

[Hollomandious]

Burt also used the revolver when he shot the gun from Bill's hand. You hear him rotate the wheel.

Fail (on me).

[Pikepaw]

-They have been very concerned about getting food and Burt is being too cautious, why they haven't gone back to his shop.
-Yeah, a plan B should have been something to think about for sure. But if people in fiction never made mistakes, then it wouldn't be interesting
-The sleeping thing is strange. Also in the boat episode we see that some of them are starting to starve, which means they need to eat to survive. I think this means the "zombies" are alive, like in 28 days later

[Brooke Steele]

-They have been very concerned about getting food and Burt is being too cautious, why they haven't gone back to his shop.
-Yeah, a plan B should have been something to think about for sure. But if people in fiction never made mistakes, then it wouldn't be interesting
-The sleeping thing is strange. Also in the boat episode we see that some of them are starting to starve, which means they need to eat to survive. I think this means the "zombies" are alive, like in 28 days later

But it they are starving and they are cannibals, then why don't they attack each other?

[Wicked Sid]

But it they are starving and they are cannibals, then why don't they attack each other?

Theoretically, I don't know if you're vegetarian or not, wouldn't you rather eat a cow/pig/any animal than another human?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

They do eat one another. They just don't attack other creatures just yet. We do know they stay the hell away from the behemoths. That tells me they're at the top of the food chain, so to speak.
How about this: The stronger the infected person's will power was in "life" affects their transformation. We already know the smarter they were translates post infection.
New things i've noticed:

Burt was calling Michael "Buck Sergeant" which is weird. Burt's a Gunny, which is USMC. Michael is USA. Buck Sergeant was what we in the USAF used to call our E4's until 91 early 92 when the rank was phased out. It was kinda weird to hear that (with my Air Force ears at least).
So, I'm thinking Burt was trying to demean Mike by calling him a baby sergeant! LOL..
Maybe KC can shed some light on that.

There are too many creatures for them all to fall under Ink's control. The ones who slept around Burt's shop tells me that much.

[wooly]

I agree with you on that "buck sergeant" comment. Taken in context, Burt was trying to be a smartass. Not sure I blame him. Michael could have been more respectful there when they met. Might have made their relationship turn out to be more productive. A Gunny Sgt with combat experience is hopefully an asset and not an enemy... but Michael isn't much of a team-builder sometimes.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Hollo,
I would actually have to say that Managers are asses and leaders can have asslike tendencies. Mike has tendencies heightened by the situation. You can see that because people follow him.
Leaders are always charismatic in one way or another. Leaders also can fall and rise. Mike fell because he has quilt over the party.
Sure, it was a very stupid thing to do, but he made a decision and stuck with it. That's what leaders do as well. If it was a crappy choice, you take responsibilty and move on. In the case of war (which this is) bad choices can and will get you replaced.
I do think KC and crew should change Shirley's sound. It needs more BOOOM! I've only been around Glock 21's and they're loud as hell, so I can imagine what a .50 sounds like. You most def know when a large caliber gun is fired.
anyway, i'm getting off topic.

1. Burt's stuff: They NEED to get back there. They're badly outnumbered and outgunned.
Sending just Angel and Kalani to get the MRE's wasn't a smart move. They need at least one extra person for overwatch.

2. Michael is impulsive

3. Lizzy and Riley seem to have the coolest heads on their shoulders.

4. Skittles at one point actually sounded pissed that Angel and Kalani were talking about him while he was right there. I noticed his voice got deeper and more confident.

[Onslaught]

I don't think you should be so quick to criticize Michael. Yes hes and ass at times but he has to be in order to keep everyone protected. When things went to hell everybody decided that there had to...

[Brooke Steele]

Theoretically, I don't know if you're vegetarian or not, wouldn't you rather eat a cow/pig/any animal than another human?

I meant the Zombies are cannibals and they don't seem to have a problem eating anything. Personally, I would rather become a vegan before I become a cannibal.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

That wasn't me. I was saying Mike has asshole tendencies, but ISN'T and asshole. I agree that he had a big load (one that he took upon himself though) and he needed to keep people in line.
Chapter 18 has me reevaluating my overall opinion of his character though. Right now, he and Pegs are perfect for one another. They're both pissing me off to no end. I would say i'm looking at Sgt Cross with a Jaundiced eye though. He's just not acting like an experienced vet.

[Onslaught]

You're right I should have read that more carefully, you're also right on the pegs and michael thing. Neither STFU and are endlessly annoying. But what I wonder if it was the burden that made him lose his common sense and become such an ass.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Man, I don't know. Maybe he just needs to get a quickie in with Pegs. Maybe she'll calm the hell down too. It's like her learning curve is jacked! She didn't learn from the time she was with Saul and Burt when Scratch was pointing the gun at her.
She's practically pulling a Dorthy on the Yellow Brick road in 18. LOL.
Kelly was the only one sounding like she had some sense when she was talking about the extra mouths to feed.

[Wicked Sid]

It's like her learning curve is jacked! She didn't learn from the time she was with Saul and Burt when Scratch was pointing the gun at her.

That was Lizzy.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Was that Lizzy? Crap! Time for another WA time travel!

[Onslaught]

You're not the only one I completely forgot about their entire plan to track the zombies I don't even remember what chapter it was.

[nikvoodoo]

You're not the only one I completely forgot about their entire plan to track the zombies I don't even remember what chapter it was.

The idea started in Chapter 7 and the storyline continued through the beginning of Chapter 11 when the group returned from the Arena and found the Tower was about to be royally screwed.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Here's my latest round of observations:

1. Skittles isn't nearly as "Gone" as we think/thought. He's clearly becoming more coherent... or maybe more confident/less scared.
a. He was clearly put out at being left out the escape plans even though he had not intentions of leaving his hide out.
b. His speech candence was normal when he pulled up in the truck

2. If the Behemoths can learn/understand/reason out things so quickly(as the one did in 18-3)... then the brains have to have maintained their same level of intellect post infection

3. Behemoths don't have problems being around other Behemoths

4. Angel is still kinda wishy washy. Despite all the missions he's been on, he still have lapses of confidence

5. Kalani has seriously stepped up to the plate.

6. All questions about food in the Colony is now a moot point. Dogs were barking in the background during 18-3, while Vic and the ladies were talking. Dogs would go before people started eating each other.

7. This is a theory instead of an observation.... The Colony is a jump off point for repopulation and rebuilding. Hench the NEED for everyone to pull their weight and why "Some" people are not allowed to leave. I say some because Victor basically lives on the outside. So, I'm thinking there's a probation period.. a build up of trust.

8. Mike and crew have not seen any armed guards patrolling the streets. That could mean that Marcus rules by a different method that Durai (which makes him scarier).

[nikvoodoo]

Here's my latest round of observations:

1. Skittles isn't nearly as "Gone" as we think/thought. He's clearly becoming more coherent... or maybe more confident/less scared.
a. He was clearly put out at being left out the escape plans even though he had not intentions of leaving his hide out.
b. His speech candence was normal when he pulled up in the truck

2. If the Behemoths can learn/understand/reason out things so quickly(as the one did in 18-3)... then the brains have to have maintained their same level of intellect post infection

3. Behemoths don't have problems being around other Behemoths

4. Angel is still kinda wishy washy. Despite all the missions he's been on, he still have lapses of confidence

5. Kalani has seriously stepped up to the plate.

6. All questions about food in the Colony is now a moot point. Dogs were barking in the background during 18-3, while Vic and the ladies were talking. Dogs would go before people started eating each other.

7. This is a theory instead of an observation.... The Colony is a jump off point for repopulation and rebuilding. Hench the NEED for everyone to pull their weight and why "Some" people are not allowed to leave. I say some because Victor basically lives on the outside. So, I'm thinking there's a probation period.. a build up of trust.

8. Mike and crew have not seen any armed guards patrolling the streets. That could mean that Marcus rules by a different method that Durai (which makes him scarier).

1. Totally. I go with the theory Skittles is suffers from being a highly functional (blank). I'm not a psychiatrist so I couldn't begin to know what might be wrong with him. But that won't stop me guessing! I might throw my hat into the ring for him being a savant and having Autism. I met Kim Peek, the man who was the basis of Dustin Hoffman's character in Rain Man. Skittles is similar to him in many ways, and very dissimilar in others. Kim shuffles and has lower motor skills, but it seems like Skittles is firing on 5 out of 6 cylinders.

2. That was exactly my point in "An Alarming Level of Intelligence" (http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?99-An-Alarming-Level-of-Intelligence). With the exception of some of the basic biters, all the other highly evolved forms are capable of advanced reasoning. Though in the behemoths case with the walls, it was too little too late.

3. That is an interesting insight. I won't go so far as to say they roam in packs, but they might be able to plot out their territory where nothing with half a brain would go lest they feel their wrath.

4. I go with the comment (I think it's from Mr. Gleason on the We're Not Dead podcast): Angel can't even get that fat bastard Kalani to follow his orders. He might have gone through school to be a leader, he is no leader...yet

5. Can I just say I told you so? (http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?38-Kalani&p=1702&viewfull=1#post1702)

6. Unless Marcus is a werewolf at which point he'd want to eat people before he'd eat a fellow dog. *tongue firmly inserted in cheek*

7. There have been enough Sci-fi movies/tv shows/episodes etc dealing with the genetic purity utopia. Only those who seem genetically pure are allowed in. I think that might be why Hope wouldn't be allowed in. It might also be why Michael is so valuable is of his Militaristic DNA

8. We don't know that Durai has guards patrolling the interior of the mall. We know they have armed look outs and armed scouts outside the walls, but so does the Colony and so does the Tower. The Tower doesn't have armed guards in the hallways either. I think once you gain admittance to any of these three locations, you are given certain freedoms.

[Ra1th]

Here's my latest round of observations:

1. Skittles isn't nearly as "Gone" as we think/thought. He's clearly becoming more coherent... or maybe more confident/less scared.
a. He was clearly put out at being left out the escape plans even though he had not intentions of leaving his hide out.
b. His speech candence was normal when he pulled up in the truck

2. If the Behemoths can learn/understand/reason out things so quickly(as the one did in 18-3)... then the brains have to have maintained their same level of intellect post infection

3. Behemoths don't have problems being around other Behemoths

4. Angel is still kinda wishy washy. Despite all the missions he's been on, he still have lapses of confidence

5. Kalani has seriously stepped up to the plate.

6. All questions about food in the Colony is now a moot point. Dogs were barking in the background during 18-3, while Vic and the ladies were talking. Dogs would go before people started eating each other.

7. This is a theory instead of an observation.... The Colony is a jump off point for repopulation and rebuilding. Hench the NEED for everyone to pull their weight and why "Some" people are not allowed to leave. I say some because Victor basically lives on the outside. So, I'm thinking there's a probation period.. a build up of trust.

8. Mike and crew have not seen any armed guards patrolling the streets. That could mean that Marcus rules by a different method that Durai (which makes him scarier).

1. i agree, i think the reasons skittles was so messed up when we first met him is cause that was probably when the second tower had first collapsed and he had just seen all his friends die, or maybe he escaped from the arena, etc, well he's doing pretty well now.

2. agreed
3. agreed
4. YOU GUYS CAN ALL GO TO HELL! sob sob sob
5. sure whatever
6. so i guess the real question is what exactly is so bad about it that vic wanted them to stay away? its not food, and even if there is a mafia type leadership in place, it cant be that bad can it?
7. i just relaly wanted to tell u guys off for the angel hate im over it now
8.

[shananala8]

Regarding 7 from the above lists, what if the Colony knows something about how the zombies that we don't know yet? Something along the lines of nikvoodoo's ALoI post. What if the zombies are capable of interrogation or they retain some specific knowledge when they turn, and the reason that Marcus doesn't allow people to leave is because he doesn't want information on the colony falling into the hands of the zombies? Or perhaps Marcus/the colony only believe something like that to be the case.

And for #8, when confronted with a problem or new situation, our response as humans is based on our knowledge and experience with similar items. Thus, Durai and the prisoners set up their camp like a prison. The Tower is similar to a military base in that they fortified their position and now take turns on watch duty. While we dont know much about Marcus, setting guards in the watchtowers and keeping the front gate on lock down are pretty basic responses, with the outposts representing a more advanced approach.

[nikvoodoo]

4. YOU GUYS CAN ALL GO TO HELL!
7. i just relaly wanted to tell u guys off for the angel hate im over it now
8.

aww come now... I qualified mine with a "yet" at least. I've seen flashes of Angel brilliance (like diving into the pile of flesh in the Arena) and my comment on Kalani is harder to fit in place now after 18-3. I bet if they go out on another mission again, I feel like there would be considerably less friction and Kalani would probably fight less.

...I just love that idea of Angel not being able to lead one man and he was expected to lead a unit in the army. It's really funny to me. I'll leave your boy alone for the rest of the night Ra1th.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Thanks ere'body for the great comments!
Here's my take on the Colony/Marcus/Durai comparisons:
Durai leads by force of arms in the strictest Darwanistic fasion. Cross him and you probably die. He was very proactive in getting weapons (as any thug, gang banger or..wait for it... MERCENARY/HITMAN) would be.

1. Victor told Kelly and Pegs that the Colony started out as an evac site and people had to fight, die and build all at the same time.
a. Once the evacs went poof, they really had to get their act together. Marcus was one of a FEW who were there from jump.
b. That leads me to believe there may be a council of "Elders" so to speak.
c. Marcus being the head survivor and set the rules to "Live" by
2. There are no armed guards roaming the streets keeping curfew or ensuring people don't leave. Most cults have thugs to help the charismatic leader maintain order. We haven't seen a hint of that...yet. No overt military force.

3. Not once did Vic tell them any of the rules. You'd think he'd at least say.. "oh, and stay in the house after such and such.."

4. Everyone seems to have freedom to wander.

5. Hope said the Gatekeeper would let her leave with them because he doesn't like her.
a. Blind girl cannot contribute to the overall wealth of the Colony. (hints at a lot of manual labor or need for skilled workers)
b. Once she heard that Michael was getting more medical help, she said they were stuck now. They would be allowed to leave.
c. Hope is still alive shows that Marcus isn't cold hearted in a manner of speaking, but she is a drain on their resources.

6. Skills or training is a precious commodity and by giving aid, there is a "blood" price to pay. Servitude/Serfdom.

7. Angel is a better shot than Saul, but is so unsure at times that it doesn't even matter. Take the Molitov coctail conversation for instance.

8. Everyone is focused on Skittles "Changing" the tires that they're missing a few things:
a. He was capable enough to throw the cocktail.
b. DRIVE the car
c. Want to be part of the plan and be peeved to be left out.
d. took the initiative to do all that on his own.

9. Vic warned them.. kinda, because once you're in, you're "IN." Nothing is for free. He was only outside with one other person. He could have left when his boy was sleeping. He clearly preferred to be on the outside, rather than stay and babysit.

[Pteranodon]

I meant the Zombies are cannibals and they don't seem to have a problem eating anything. Personally, I would rather become a vegan before I become a cannibal.

Wait, the zombies don't eat each other do they? And if 99% of the population are infected, they'd have run out of food pretty fast. Maybe they go dormant instead of starving to death- like the things from "The Boss in the Wall" who go dormant for years until anything comes near them.... If they needed a steady food supply they'd have to hunt animals.

I think the zombie abilities are random; whatever's in a person's DNA reacts to whatever caused the outbreak and some people wind up "jumpers" or "behemoths".

[nikvoodoo]

You always give so much to respond to Crowbar! I love it!

Totally agree with Durai's leadership. You are what you know, and he knows how to lead by gangland mentality. And his propensity to get weapons vs. finding a safe place to live has really handcuffed the Mallers. I can imagine defending a mall, but I can't imagine defending a strip mall. It's so wide open, I can't imagine how the Mallers have even survived this long.

1a. I'd throw the Gatekeeper in there as well. He was probably there from the beginning. I'd also hedge a bet that Pete and Tanya were there relatively quickly afterwards, if not from the beginning.
1b. I think Marcus leads on his own. If there was a council, we'd probably have heard Victor and Fernando talking about how "The Council doesn't need to know" not just Marcus.
1c. Agreed. Marcus' playpen, Marcus' rules.

2. I don't think you'd need to have thugs there. I would bet for just about everyone there it's a great life. Pete seemed to like it that's for sure.

3. There may be some initiation now that they have to go through with Marcus. First rule of the Colony is you don't tell anyone the rules, 'cause that's Marcus' job.

4. Except our Tower folk. Though now that Vic is gone, they may very well be allowed to go where ever.

5. I agree with your a and b points. C- I believe Marcus doesn't necessarily care about handicaps so long as you can do something. What Hope can do isn't much, but at least it's helpful to someone.

6. Agreed as well. Michael being a soldier is probably one hell of an asset that can be used for training outpost guards like Victor.

7. I'll just play Devil's advocate on this: The entire plan hinged on pissing off/distracting the behemoth long enough. Angel, being a good leader, decided the best thing for the mission was for a more accurate shot. After saying that, yeah, I agree he should have done it himself. I long for the day he truly gets both feet firmly planted underneath him and stands up. I think he will be clutch at that point.

8. I've been advocating Skittles as a high functioning sufferer of X (no idea what). Despite being not all there, he would still have the ability to perform all sorts of complex tasks. Throwing the cocktail isn't all that difficult (except the part about not burning yourself). Driving the car is definitely complex. And honestly just because they are mentally handicapped doesn't mean they don't register exactly what people are saying about them. How much do you want to bet Skittles heard that brief exchange between Kalani and Angel about Skittles screwing up the plan?

9. Hell, if he truly wanted to leave, Vic could have told them exactly why the colony is so bad (in his opinion), and convinced them to take him back to the Tower.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

heheh. Thanks Nik,

Lemme start from the bottom and work up.

1. My boy skittles: I do believe he took off after he threw the bottle. He did hear them and it bothered him to no end. I think that's why he took off to do what he did.
I can buy your theory on him being the podcast's "Rain Man" except that he seems to be getting better. It's like he's regaining his old self bit by bit.
Remember what state he was in when they originally found him? He was mad stressed, dirty, damn near naked and rambled worse than Glen Beck. He's clearly not as traumatized and functioning damn near normally. I feel that he's down to just a stutterer now. Now that I think about it,.. his motor skills are pretty damn smooth too. He's been running, shooting, climbing on his own. Not trying to be funny, but I don't think he'd be a fit for the Special Olympics. He's over qualified. LOL.. (maybe i was trying to be funny after all..)

Victor: Yah, he could have told them exactly what was going on. I'm kinda glad he didn't because they wouldn't have believed him... Mike's dumb ass would have wanted to see it for himself... Peg's super dumb ass sure wouldn't believe it. Kelly... well, she'd probably take it at face value, but go along because she had no choice.

Remember.. the last thing he told them was that "Someone will be by in the am to assign them jobs." Not, teach you the rules or have a meeting with Marcus.. hell, he didn't even say "someone will show you around."
Nope, get your culo's to work.

Angel is growing and I dig that he's away for his shortcomings. Skittles just happened to have a better arm than Kalani and Angel. LOL. He'll return to the tower with a ton of information. Burts not a tactician though, so Riley will be the best person to see the big picture.

Marcus the leader: He's the head honco.. but like you said, others like the "Gatekeeper" have the ability to make exceptions and take liberties with the rules. The doc was TOLD to see Michael. That makes me wonder why?

Try this on for size: Folks can't leave the Colony for one very good reason. Fear of infection if/when they return. Wait, ixnay that. I forgot about the inspection process.. dammit!

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

LOL.. i'm my own thread here..
My grandmother always said people who talk to themselves are crazy... I wonder how that translates to typing?
Anywhoooooo, I'll pretend this is my Journal. hahahh..
I think we've overlooked a very important creature development: Remember the thing at the beach house? Remember it was eating DOG food? Hmmmmm.. No one has talked about that one little tid bit important info.
Dog food? That shows real hunger instead of the NEED to rip, tear, infect and chomp on FLESH!
Zombie mythology 101
1. Dead have risen
2. People are "Turned" without dying
3. People are infected, die then turn
4. They NEED to eat people
5. Now KC and his sick... twisted crew have thrown this crowbar *chuckle* in the machine.

[nikvoodoo]

LOL.. i'm my own thread here..
My grandmother always said people who talk to themselves are crazy... I wonder how that translates to typing?
Anywhoooooo, I'll pretend this is my Journal. hahahh..
I think we've overlooked a very important creature development: Remember the thing at the beach house? Remember it was eating DOG food? Hmmmmm.. No one has talked about that one little tid bit important info.
Dog food? That shows real hunger instead of the NEED to rip, tear, infect and chomp on FLESH!
Zombie mythology 101
1. Dead have risen
2. People are "Turned" without dying
3. People are infected, die then turn
4. They NEED to eat people
5. Now KC and his sick... twisted crew have thrown this crowbar *chuckle* in the machine.

This is doubly reinforced by the grocery store Saul and Angel went to early on before finding Burt. There were cans of food ripped into and bitten open. And we also know that the ones one the island that swam to the yacht were starving to death and withering away. So I think its safe to say thee incarnations of zombies are omnivorous and will eat what ever crosses their path.

[wooly]

Add to that the policing of bodies and storage of same at the arena. If looked at from the zombie point of view it looks suspiciously like long-term food hoarding.

How many other parallels between the tower and the arena are there? Food storage, internal lighting, secure location, central leadership, entertainment (if you subscribe to the "blood sports" theory of the arena) Do the creatures at the arena have a long-term survival plan?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I think the bloodsport theory is pure Hoowee! Nothign supports it other than Sam being dragged to the center and lasting long enough to scream twice.
1. So, This begs the question of why do they kill if they're able to digest and are interested in "People food" *no pun intended*
2. What does this mean evolution wise?
3 How the hell can they tell what's food if it isn't running from them? Smell? Sight? Memory?
And thank you Nik and Wooly for breaking my little Soliloquy. LOL

[nikvoodoo]

I think the bloodsport theory is pure Hoowee! Nothign supports it other than Sam being dragged to the center and lasting long enough to scream twice.
1. So, This begs the question of why do they kill if they're able to digest and are interested in "People food" *no pun intended*
2. What does this mean evolution wise?
3 How the hell can they tell what's food if it isn't running from them? Smell? Sight? Memory?


1. Why does a Grizzly Bear eat fish and then also eat berries? Because it can.
2. Honestly, it means nothing in terms of evolution. Unless you are a vegetarian or vegan, you are already an omnivore. Human beings eat anything they can. Perhaps our zombified friends simply lose their ability to taste and will consume what ever they come across.
3. We know they have super human olfactory abilities. I'd assume they go by smell. That's how they eventually found the MRE's. Skittles ate them in the supply warehouse. Before that, nothing could smell them.

And I still support blood sport because Samantha says they play with their food before they eat it. Is it still a long shot? Yeah, but I like the idea of it.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Nik,
the MRE are vacum sealed (twice) and inside sealed/taped boxes, sitting in a warehouse on a pallet for eons.. hard to imagine them smelling that.. but i'll roll with you on that because Skittles aroma was lingering around and bits of food from the packets were there. I'm surprised he hadn't burned himself.
I can see your bear thing if we weren't talking creatures that are supposed to be attracted to eating flesh.. with a severe hankering for our bits and pieces.
Cat's play with mice before they take a chomp, but Sam didn't last long enough once she hit the arena floor. Anyway, I'll have a wild theory soon that I'll desperately want you to buy off on, so you can have this one. LOL
Lets say our Eat Em Ups have lost their sense of taste... that would mean they wouldn't pay attention to non human food???

[nikvoodoo]

Nik,
the MRE are vacum sealed (twice) and inside sealed/taped boxes, sitting in a warehouse on a pallet for eons.. hard to imagine them smelling that.. but i'll roll with you on that because Skittles aroma was lingering around and bits of food from the packets were there. I'm surprised he hadn't burned himself.

I'm just going off what Skittle said that he led them to the warehouse by eating the food there before he took the supplies and moved into the Water Tower. You're right, on their own sealed, nothing seems to have gotten into them, otherwise there would be nothing left of any of the MREs. The only ones that were eaten was from the pallet Skittles ate from and left behind trace scents for something to find and investigate. So I'm saying the aroma of the two MREs skittles ate in the warehouse is what attracted something to that site, and they then broke open the boxes thinking that's where the smell was coming from. Going back to my bear example, a bear in the woods will trash an entire camp site because it smells traces of food and will destroy anything to find it.


I can see your bear thing if we weren't talking creatures that are supposed to be attracted to eating flesh.. with a severe hankering for our bits and pieces.
Supposed to is a loaded word. We are all making assumptions off our collective 50 some odd years of pop culture mythology about Zombies. That doesn't necessarily mean KC isn't adding something to the mythos. Doesn't it make it a little more terrifying and harder to survive if the predator that's hunting you also consumes your food supply? Starts to leave you with very few options left. Besides, if they are supposed to be our typical "eat when they come in contact with flesh" zombies, why have they been able to lay traps, imprison prey, and organize themselves around a leader?


Cat's play with mice before they take a chomp, but Sam didn't last long enough once she hit the arena floor. Anyway, I'll have a wild theory soon that I'll desperately want you to buy off on, so you can have this one. LOL
You're right, she didn't last long. And that does indeed go against the blood sport theory...but I still like it. Can't wait to hear your wild theory!


Lets say our Eat Em Ups have lost their sense of taste... that would mean they wouldn't pay attention to non human food???
Just because they can't taste doesn't mean they don't need to feed. If we buy the omnivore theory, they will eat just about anything that they can find when they are hungry. The zombie in the beach house was eating what was available to it. Dog food. Everything needs to consume to survive. In a pinch, you or I could survive on dog food. Personally, I'd rather not eat it, but I can and I could survive off of it. And it will help make my coat shine. No reason I can't look pretty in a zombie infested world.

[lectio]

I've gone back and listened to a few episodes to help me fill in some blanks and I realized i've learned some new things:

10. Michael was an ass before everything went to hell.

Not so much an ass as socially inept, I'd say. The character strikes me as a person who was depressed before the outbreak began

[lectio]

In Chapter 3 (part 3 of 3), Burt talks about the smart zombies. The climbing zombie has a level three security badge from

"That one there, lying there, trapped me in the bathroom. It just waited for me to come out..."

"You see that badge clipped there to his belt? It's a level 3 ID for Radon Labs. Must have been pretty damn smart to get that badge."

I wonder if we're going to see Radon Labs featured in upcoming episodes? I'm willing to bet that they were involved with the outbreak. Angel's theory of the mental hospital being the source of the outbreak is probably off, but remember how the first zombies - the ones on the highway - were described by Michael as being covered in scars? Maybe they were test subjects; experiments gone awry. A containment failure could account for the sudden outbreak. The first of the outbreaks were reported to be in Los Angeles and downtown San Diego. There are major research universities in both of those cities; there would be research labs nearby, and the biotech industry seems to be clustered up around San Francisco and Menlo Park.

Maybe something kind of clandestine project?

[lectio]

(nerts - I was so hoping Radon Labs would show up as a secret wiki item)

[nikvoodoo]

@Lectio- Good catch! I don't think anyone has presented Radon as a viable location to explore. If it's going to come back at some point, it's not going to be soon. I don't even know if it will come...

[mascaria]

Do you remember when Kalani said that the survivors of the other tower had zeroed in on the center and they'd ventured out there and brought back some weird stuff, but he didn't remember what?

Should we speculate that not only is Radon Labs somewhere near the center and that perhaaaaaaaaps The Colony is exploring the area!

[lectio]

Do you remember when Kalani said that the survivors of the other tower had zeroed in on the center and they'd ventured out there and brought back some weird stuff, but he didn't remember what?

Should we speculate that not only is Radon Labs somewhere near the center and that perhaaaaaaaaps The Colony is exploring the area!

Hrm. Thinking about it, it does seem more likely that the outbreak was not airborne in nature. The Santa Ana winds are mentioned in Chapter 17, I think, and Michael clearly establishes the start of the outbreak in early May. Prevailing winds would be moving west, down the mountains. The first appearance of zombies is in Los Angeles and San Diego, according to the news broadcast that Michael overhears in episode one.

If the outbreak starts as a containment failure in a biotech lab, it would be pretty likely that it would start somewhere up around Menlo Park with the biotech research firms up there, or in a university lab. UC Davis near Sacramento was gunning for a hot lab a while back (I don't know if they got one or not), so it's not unreasonable to think that in this story, a hot lab was active somewhere near the outbreak. It's unlikely that a hot lab would be operating as a private company, but Radon might have been operating as a contractor. I think it's likely that it started somewhere north of LA, and was spread by people fleeing by car on highways. So the initial spread of the outbreak, if it starts in California, would be north-south, and then gradually spread west.

I don't think Saul or Angel took the keycard from the climber's corpse, but it's not unreasonable to think that the corpse - and the keycard - is still out there. There aren't too many jumpers, and probably not many climbers, either...so it would still be possible to go back and retrieve the card. Radon Labs might be out of power by now, but they'd probably have auxiliary generators on line - though the supply of fuel would be, most likely, exhausted. If the keycard system worked on battery backups (as a failsafe against power failures), they'd still be operational.

"Their bodies were littered with scars and bruises." That's what Michael says about the first zombies - and since it would take time for those to accumulate, I'd think that it would have taken a while for them to get like that. I'm willing to bet that there was some kind of an experimentation program already running for some time. The mention of 'Ink,' the schizophrenic murderer headed to the mental hospital in Chapter 1 (and presumably the smart, super-bad zed) - maybe he was transferred to a research program? Maybe the hospital was running a research protocol?

Maybe I should be working on my term paper instead of looking at maps of highways and thinking about disease vectors?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Holy Cow have you guys opened a can of worms with that one!
My only question is about Kalani and Hawaii. If.. and a big IF at that- LA was the epicenter, how did Hawaii get hit earlier and worse?
I may be wrong about "Earlier" but that's the impression I got from Kalani's story.
The Climber's corpse isn't going to be there. The creatures are scavengers and cannibals. They've been dragging anything with meat on it back to the arena (presumably).
There has clearly been a progression in the creatures behavior. I'm of mind that they're evolving, BUT... I also feel like they're different "Breeds" so to speak (Behomoths for example). Experiments in human evolution? Patients at the crazy house the test subjects?
I'm pretty sure the Lab would have its power off grid. They'd have to in order to keep any prime specimen from being destroyed by power outage. Can you imagine the CDC losing power? Yikes!
The infections isn't airborne. Proof is Kelly's nephew.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I've also noticed... this thread has 5 yellow stars.. What's that about? LOL

[Wicked Sid]

I just want to clear up that most likely there are no such climbers. Normals can climb and presumably the smart are also able to perform such an act. Therefore, the one Saul and Angel encountered was ether a normal or more likely a smart one as Burt pointed out.

[lectio]

The infections isn't airborne. Proof is Kelly's nephew.

That we know of...

(dun-dun-DUUUN!)

[lectio]

I've also noticed... this thread has 5 yellow stars.. What's that about? LOL

Up at the top of the thread pages, on the right hand side: there's a voting button for 'rate this thread.'

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Lectio,

You're pretty damn sharp for a newbie.. thanks. LOL

[lectio]

Thanks very much!

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I had a few things written down that I noticed from some earlier chapters, but I can't find my paper. ANYWHOOOOO..
1. Some of the creatures know fear. The Pegs drops a pot episode had one trying to hide from them as it entered the lobby.
2. Kalani/Angel get jiggy episode had the behemoth perplexed that they'd actually run at it.
3. LA was totally overrun in 2 days.
4. The doc asked Mike if they were from San Diego.. Pendelton.. as in Camp Pendelton i do believe.
5. I know the exact location of where all the evacuees would have been taken
6. Tonya's manners did a 180 when Marcus showed up, she most def became submissive as hell.
7. Marcus isn't a day to day involved person.
8. How did Tonya get the go ahead to see Michael from Marcus when there was no break in the conversation in the Gatekeeper's room? One moment she was saying no, then said yes because she was told to do it.
9. Marcus hadn't even seen whom he was dealing with yet.
10. The Colony has plantation/slave style capital punishment. That only tends to work when you have massive amounts of manpower.
11. The Colony is great at keeping out Zombies, but a determined human force could take it.

[Ra1th]

In Chapter 3 (part 3 of 3), Burt talks about the smart zombies. The climbing zombie has a level three security badge from

"That one there, lying there, trapped me in the bathroom. It just waited for me to come out..."

"You see that badge clipped there to his belt? It's a level 3 ID for Radon Labs. Must have been pretty damn smart to get that badge."

I wonder if we're going to see Radon Labs featured in upcoming episodes? I'm willing to bet that they were involved with the outbreak. Angel's theory of the mental hospital being the source of the outbreak is probably off, but remember how the first zombies - the ones on the highway - were described by Michael as being covered in scars? Maybe they were test subjects; experiments gone awry. A containment failure could account for the sudden outbreak. The first of the outbreaks were reported to be in Los Angeles and downtown San Diego. There are major research universities in both of those cities; there would be research labs nearby, and the biotech industry seems to be clustered up around San Francisco and Menlo Park.

Maybe something kind of clandestine project?

holdon a second before we jump to a biotech lab containment failure, remember the news broadcast from chapter 2-3? i think? the one that mentions ink that lizzy finds on the tivo. the news segment said that similar break outs of zombies were happening all around the world, a hotlab in LA can't be the source of all the outbreaks.

[lectio]

holdon a second before we jump to a biotech lab containment failure, remember the news broadcast from chapter 2-3? i think? the one that mentions ink that lizzy finds on the tivo. the news segment said that similar break outs of zombies were happening all around the world, a hotlab in LA can't be the source of all the outbreaks.

Hmm. Well, Michael and Angel did figure that the virus spread through California in under a day, but the breakouts all over the place...suggests attack, maybe? I still think that Radon is somehow involved - or that it will be. But I'll have to go back to the drawing board with the Tivo info.

[nikvoodoo]

Hmm. Well, Michael and Angel did figure that the virus spread through California in under a day, but the breakouts all over the place...suggests attack, maybe? I still think that Radon is somehow involved - or that it will be. But I'll have to go back to the drawing board with the Tivo info.

If you haven't played this online game yet, check out Pandemic 2 (http://www.crazymonkeygames.com/Pandemic-2.html). The entire point of the game is to create a disease that is capable of wiping humanity off the face of the planet. The best (and basically only) winning strategy is for your virus/bacteria/parasite to quietly pass to all corners of the world, and then violently mutate after you have a large number of carriers infected without knowing they are. So it may not necessarily be an attack. It could very well be some new strain of virus or whatever that infected a large population globally. That's honestly the only way I can explain how it became a global phenomenon and not a localized outbreak.

[cPT.cAPSLOCK]

If you haven't played this online game yet, check out Pandemic 2 (http://www.crazymonkeygames.com/Pandemic-2.html). The entire point of the game is to create a disease that is capable of wiping humanity off the face of the planet. The best (and basically only) winning strategy is for your virus/bacteria/parasite to quietly pass to all corners of the world, and then violently mutate after you have a large number of carriers infected without knowing they are. So it may not necessarily be an attack. It could very well be some new strain of virus or whatever that infected a large population globally. That's honestly the only way I can explain how it became a global phenomenon and not a localized outbreak.

Don't forget that that's also one of the things a strain won't do in real:
the evolutions are independent of each other. So let's say we have virus 'x' spreading to location '1' to '10'.
If the virus evolves into something deadly at location '1', only those people suffer from it. The people in location 2 to 10 will have to be infected again with the new strain before they'll suffer from the new symptoms.

[nikvoodoo]

But remember we've seen evolution in our infected (if that's truly what they are). The first time we saw them they were slow ambling things. Now we've got multiple mutations that we've encountered. Kalani also said the hawaiian ones were more aggressive which could be a mutation in the strain.


so people in location one started as ambelers, infected others with their strain which mutated perpetually. Each new infection mutates, creating the specialized jumpers, runners, behemoths we have now.

Ultimately, I'm just trying to figure out how it could go global all at once without it being a coordinated attack

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

That's one of the first things I thought of.. LA wasn't ground Zero. It's just the start for California.
How did it spawn world wide:
Let's say the biolab is a Umbrella clone and is global. You have a coordinated attack by environmentalists or a disgruntled IT guy who just happened to hack the safety protocols worldwide. The only way I see this as happening so quickly is that there had to be containments units with bioengineered things.
Maybe they were working on a super soldier program...heeehhh
or a more sinister global Tuskeegee type experiment.
Anyway, the creatures in the first episode were walkers with bad skin who reacted to noise instead of smell. Then as the day progressed, there were creatures who had better noses than Scooby looking for Scooby Snacks.
California fell in 2 days right?
- It seems to me that the LA area is the only area so far with the multiple creature variations. I say this because only the Guardians are armed in the Colony (no one is carrying even a stick).
- If they had leapers or behemoths then you'd see the masses carrying some form of a weapon. (That also hints at Marcus leadership style and the conscription/Authoritarian system that's is set up. You don't want the serf's taking it out on the forement do we?)
- The Colony hasn't been up and running long enough to produce crops (i think it takes about 120 days for a Potato to sprout), plus Marcus said as much.
- The Colony doesn't have so much strife that Marcus needs spies to keep an handle on people. You'd think he'd have people watching each other, but he doesn't. He was clueless that Hope was still there. SOO, people know how to keep their mouths shut or they're simply out of the loop about that "rule."

[Wicked Sid]

- It seems to me that the LA area is the only area so far with the multiple creature variations. I say this because only the Guardians are armed in the Colony (no one is carrying even a stick).
- If they had leapers or behemoths then you'd see the masses carrying some form of a weapon. (That also hints at Marcus leadership style and the conscription/Authoritarian system that's is set up. You don't want the serf's taking it out on the forement do we?)

Weapons are not exactly needed to farm crops... Also, as Pegs said in chapter 19, they were told to release their weapons and place them in a storage cache. They, as in the Colony members, took this as compliance and saw need further need to educate them upon the rules during this time.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Sid,

Note I said "Weapons" not guns. See, my nome de guerre for example. hahah.

[nikvoodoo]

- The Colony hasn't been up and running long enough to produce crops (i think it takes about 120 days for a Potato to sprout), plus Marcus said as much.
- The Colony doesn't have so much strife that Marcus needs spies to keep an handle on people. You'd think he'd have people watching each other, but he doesn't. He was clueless that Hope was still there. SOO, people know how to keep their mouths shut or they're simply out of the loop about that "rule."

I think we've established we are still in the Summer of '09 in the story. The end of Season 1 is the Fourth of July and Michael is still commenting about how warm it is outside before they reach the colony. The whole thing started May 9th. If you grant to the end of Summer (late August and into September) and you also take Marcus at his word about how they were defending and building at the same time, it makes sense they haven't got any crops quite yet.

The tricky thing about Marcus is how over confident he is in his position. Arrogance breeds two things: Laziness and Contempt. He's so arrogant and confident in his authority, he doesn't think anyone can over throw him. And as we saw with Victor and a little bit with Amy the seeds of discontent are sewn.

[Wicked Sid]

Sid,

Note I said "Weapons" not guns. See, my nome de guerre for example. hahah.

Counter note my exclusive use of weapons as well. Oh, and shovels can be used as weapons. I'm pretty sure there's quite a few of those around.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I'm a big fan of shovels as a melee weapon. A twisted minded person would sharpen the blade so it becomes a really wicked ranged edged weapon.
Sid, did you know you can go over to Amazon and build a Zombie survival list? Supplies, weapons, equipment, clothes... with comments. Kinda fun when you have the time.
Anyway, the colony is basically an enclave in enemy occupied land. Everyone should be carrying something for protection. The fact that they aren't points to Marcus losing sight of real problem.
Yes, we humans are basically lazy and selfish. Given the choice a majority of the people would choose not to work... BUT, if you cultivate a culture of hard work and communal integrity, you'll get people to put in the time. The whole Serf thing is too heavy handed.

[Ra1th]

But remember we've seen evolution in our infected (if that's truly what they are). The first time we saw them they were slow ambling things. Now we've got multiple mutations that we've encountered. Kalani also said the hawaiian ones were more aggressive which could be a mutation in the strain.


so people in location one started as ambelers, infected others with their strain which mutated perpetually. Each new infection mutates, creating the specialized jumpers, runners, behemoths we have now.

Ultimately, I'm just trying to figure out how it could go global all at once without it being a coordinated attack

MUTATION!!! the virus evolves, zombies mutate

[Wicked Sid]

I'm a big fan of shovels as a melee weapon. A twisted minded person would sharpen the blade so it becomes a really wicked ranged edged weapon.
Sid, did you know you can go over to Amazon and build a Zombie survival list? Supplies, weapons, equipment, clothes... with comments. Kinda fun when you have the time.
Anyway, the colony is basically an enclave in enemy occupied land. Everyone should be carrying something for protection. The fact that they aren't points to Marcus losing sight of real problem.
Yes, we humans are basically lazy and selfish. Given the choice a majority of the people would choose not to work... BUT, if you cultivate a culture of hard work and communal integrity, you'll get people to put in the time. The whole Serf thing is too heavy handed.

But, not everyone is putting in their fair share. Why in the hell would they need supervisors? Its not a truly professional environment, and the Guardians seem like the only ones who should be able to stand around seeing as they protect the damn place. It really sounds more like a prison rather than an Enclave.

On another note, why do the supervisors need a taser? To put the people back to work? Why do they need to be put back to work? Drop your goddamn taser and put your share of the load on your own back. The Colony really seems like a counter-intuitive situation, treat them like prisoners, A.K.A. Shit, and they'll become pissed off like prisoners which all ends in revolt.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Sid,
one minor point: an enclave is a territory whose geographical boundaries lie entirely within the boundaries of another territory....
Zombie Land.
The other thing is not all of them are treated like prisoners. I'm willing to bet that if everyone was all gung ho, there wouldn't be any issues. Human nature is to rebel though.
The thing is that the rules are too strict.. rigid may be a better word... or better yet, interpreted wrong.
I keep seeing Kelly being elevated to something like the Colony judge.
The other thing.. 12 hour shift isn't really all that bad considering the time and place. In perspective; farmers put in more hours. Hell, I even learned from my time with the 18th Airborne in haiti that the Army doesn't even have a clue what sleep is. LOL
The simplest solution is that if someone doesn't pull their fair share, they don't eat. Me, i'd make them scavengers. Survival of the fittest. If they survive, they're helping by bringing stuff and intel back. If they die.. well, good riddance.
The only thing is that Marcus doesn't want anyone to find out about the place.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I'm going to try and keep things I've... er, "Noticed" confined to this thread. redundant threads are popping up left and right. Anyway, here goes...
Remember the bandages on the doc's arm? She said that you'd see a lot of people with "Injuries." The odd thing is that she said she burned her arm in surgery. HUH? Who uses flames to operate?
They have electricity.
So, here goes:
The injuries are from some form of punishment. That's more theory than observation though.

[cPT.cAPSLOCK]

I wouldn't be surprised if injuries are used as punishment. Just look at the "taser-incident".

However, fire actually is very useful during certain treatments. For example, if someone is bleeding badly, you can melt a sugar coating on it to stop the wound from bleeding further. Also, the sugar has an antibacterial effect. In a primitive hospital like they have at the Colony (or the rest of the world in We're Alive, for that matter), I could imagine such treatments being used.
There are many more treatments requiring fire or extreme heat that you wouldn't think of first, but are actually very practical if you give it some thought.

So basically, while I think your theory is pretty likely to be true, there is a chance she was telling the truth.

[nikvoodoo]

I wouldn't be surprised if injuries are used as punishment. Just look at the "taser-incident".

However, fire actually is very useful during certain treatments. For example, if someone is bleeding badly, you can melt a sugar coating on it to stop the wound from bleeding further. Also, the sugar has an antibacterial effect. In a primitive hospital like they have at the Colony (or the rest of the world in We're Alive, for that matter), I could imagine such treatments being used.
There are many more treatments requiring fire or extreme heat that you wouldn't think of first, but are actually very practical if you give it some thought.

So basically, while I think your theory is pretty likely to be true, there is a chance she was telling the truth.

Hell, if nothing else just remember cauterizing Saul's gunshot wound. If someone wasn't holding down the patient well enough for Tanya, you could pick up a nasty burn super quick.

Besides, maiming wouldn't help their purpose of pulling your own weight. I feel like the punishments are enough to get your attention (see: Taser), or you are just killed (broken nose=broken neck). If you hurt someone enough, they wouldn't be able to to enough and therefore, must be killed. So, cut out the middle part and just kill 'em.

[Funny Muffins]

Why would you burn the arms of your only acting doctor??
The leg would be a more sutiable location for injuring someone you need in the future.
Besides.

+Would Marcus really burn Tanya and then expect medical attention when the stuff hits the fannnnn?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

In my opinion, they aren't going to need fire when they have the capacity to clean, stitch and dress a wound. They have the training to reset a broken arm, but need to use fire? Cauturizing a would, like a tourniquet is a last resort method. Char boiling the flesh is a stop gap messure for traumatic bleeding only.
Sugar isn't going to burn hot or long enough to cauterize a wound. It'd hurt more than anything because of how slow it "melts."

Hey Nik.. the burns can also be from a cigar or cigarette. You know how some abusers do their kids? Also, what if they're "Brands" of fealty?

[Eviebae]

The tricky thing about Marcus is how over confident he is in his position. Arrogance breeds two things: Laziness and Contempt. He's so arrogant and confident in his authority, he doesn't think anyone can over throw him. And as we saw with Victor and a little bit with Amy the seeds of discontent are sown.

I don't see him as over confident. Just the opposite. He seems to have set up multiple ways of getting information--for instance he knows enough to know that The Gatekeeper is a threat. I think keeps all the higher ups together so he can keep tabs on them.

[nikvoodoo]

I don't see him as over confident. Just the opposite. He seems to have set up multiple ways of getting information--for instance he knows enough to know that The Gatekeeper is a threat. I think keeps all the higher ups together so he can keep tabs on them.

Yes, that seems to be the case now that we've heard this weeks episode.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I haven't listened to part II yet, but, I'll reply to Muffins again about Tonya. She's not the only doc. Remember that Marcus stated so when he threatened to terminate her "Contract."
I'm hoping part II fleshes out some of my theories about the hierarchy. It was obvious that Marcus didn't want Gatekeeper as number II though.

[Funny Muffins]

I don't recall hearing anyone said we have X amount of doctors so if we maim one or end contracts with one we will have others.
Marcus is flexing his "muscle", hey you don't fix him then you don't eat/live/have the pleasure of being our doctor and the perks it may have.

I do see the only doctor we know of being assisted by no one more than a blind girl however.
Everyone is obviously working hard. Everyday.
Then where is doctor #2?
In the leaders apartments?
Then why didn't Marcus have "his doctor" check out Mike?

Unless I missed something large, Tanya is it.
There could be some other people that are "medics/nurses/soldiers" that could have her position fixing him right away but I think she is the lead surgeon/head of medical department around the colony.
Terminating her contract could mean her death, then they could replace her with someone else from a lesser "class".
Maybe Tanya was burned by accident not punishment..
(On second thought. Nah...)

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Muffins,
Listent to the part where Hope spills the "pee" on him. Listen to his rant and you'll hear him mention she's not the only doc anymore.
He says quote "You're not the only medical authority around here anymore" unquote. This is at 13:24
Before that he shows some contempt by making her "FETCH" some coffee.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

In episode 18, Kalani and Angel say there are 3 Behemoths. They capped one and they saw "Arrow Head," so where's the 3rd?

[nikvoodoo]

In episode 18, Kalani and Angel say there are 3 Behemoths. They capped one and they saw "Arrow Head," so where's the 3rd?

They killed the one being pecked at by the bird, then killed the second one with building and bullets, and played chicken with arrowhead

[Kc]

They killed the one being pecked at by the bird, then killed the second one with building and bullets, and played chicken with arrowhead
Confirmed...

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Woa! Pecked at by a bird? I had to have missed that. Episode and time hack please..and thank you!

[j0be]

Well, I think I'll jump into this thread. Skittles has some skills! I blew a tire on Friday. Took me around 15 minutes to change. A lot of that revolved around me figuring out my weird jack, but still, Skittles did it in 4!

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

LOL@J0be!
Well, I'll add something about epi 19-3.
Some of their ammo issues are worked out for the moment

[Teethingbiscuit]

Better get to practicing ehe, J0be!
Did you notice that the scouting parties had tattoos for number of kills. Number of Zombie Kills? You'd think you could rack up hundreds of em but how many of them had been there since the beginning? Thirty is significant. Not enough but significant.
Teeth
P.S. Is it wrong to kill them if they could be brought back to their own sanity(healed)?

[Funny Muffins]

It would only be wrong to kill them if you had a cure that could be distributed and you were just sitting on it.
IMO.


Til you find that cure?
If it's down to me or them?
Me.

*Take note the PERIOD at the end of my last statement.*
:)

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Anyone notice that Kelly is sprouting some REALLY funny lines the last 3 or 4 episodes?
She's rather upbeat for someone who lost everyone her nephew not that long ago. Did she hate him that badly? sheesh!
I failed to notice that they grabbed 2 backpacks of ammo when they skedaddled from the Colony until I listened again. Again, that was all Kelly. Vic wanted one bag. "Pretty sneaky sis" *from an old Battleship game commercial*

[Hollomandious]

She's rather upbeat for someone who lost everyone her nephew not that long ago. Did she hate him that badly? sheesh!

I think that's a bit unfair. How long do u wallow in your sadness? Especially in a zombie apocalypse. Gotta move on.

Back up off my girl.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Hollo,
It's only been a couple weeks and people grieve during catastropies for love ones due to survivors guilt or from seeing them die, finding their bodies...etc.
You'll have to actually be in a real disaster or respond to the aftermath of one to see what i'm talking about. People cope, but they eventually have a breakdown. It normally happens out the blue too.

[nikvoodoo]

Hollo,
It's only been a couple weeks and people grieve during catastropies for love ones due to survivors guilt or from seeing them die, finding their bodies...etc.
You'll have to actually be in a real disaster or respond to the aftermath of one to see what i'm talking about. People cope, but they eventually have a breakdown. It normally happens out the blue too.

Agreed. People cope very differently with death, especially with the death of someone so young. Sadly having experienced this first hand, I know how wide the reactions run. Kelly is still grieving, but she's found a new purpose suddenly and it's allowing her the opportunity to focus on other things instead of her loss. I think if the relationship with Victor forms, she'll have a shoulder to cry on and he will be extremely helpful to her providing he opens up about what happened to him and his family too. They will be a great support structure for each other.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I think her real personality is finally coming through because she's had some really funny lines lately.
Hey wait a root'n toot'n minute! Speaking of Tommy! How exactly do you think he died? Burt missed him and I was thinking that fire wouldn't kill them. He didn't get very far after all.
-Fire kill him?
-Maller kill him as he tore out the building?
Maybe I just need to listen to that episode again and just don't remember.

[nikvoodoo]

I think her real personality is finally coming through because she's had some really funny lines lately.
Hey wait a root'n toot'n minute! Speaking of Tommy! How exactly do you think he died? Burt missed him and I was thinking that fire wouldn't kill them. He didn't get very far after all.
-Fire kill him?
-Maller kill him as he tore out the building?
Maybe I just need to listen to that episode again and just don't remember.

The Mallers were gone by the time the zombies attacked and infiltrated the building. I think it's likely that if the fall didn't kill Zom-Tom, then it's likely that he broke himself to the point he couldn't move and was burned to death.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

"broke himself to the point of not being able to move" hm...
Re-refresh my memory then. Didn't he bust down several fire doors on his exit? He was running down the hallway correct?

[nikvoodoo]

"broke himself to the point of not being able to move" hm...
Re-refresh my memory then. Didn't he bust down several fire doors on his exit? He was running down the hallway correct?

He broke down a fire door, and then fell multiple stories onto a pile of rubble. That's when he would have broke himself and that's where he was found.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

hmmm.. seems like that would have just tickled him. Ok, not gonna beat a zombie horse.

[nikvoodoo]

hmmm.. seems like that would have just tickled him. Ok, not gonna beat a zombie horse.

I now have this interesting mental image of a zombie being tickled....

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

ROFL! Now that's something to laugh about.

[ramsbilly]

when they found Bill's stolen stash it made a gun run less of a priority, next to food and safety supplies. perhaps the specialty zombies were never human, maybe they were engineered as weapons

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Ah Haa! Engineered as weapons! I believe they all started human.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Not something I've noticed per se, but simply an assumption; There haven't been anymore transmissions to the Mallers. I can't remember if there were any protocols put in place to prevent another leak, but from what i'm gathering in, they still have one person at a time pulling guard duty.
Ok, something i did notice upon Mike's return"
-First thing he noticed was how trashed the place was
-Angel still isn't leadship material.

[nikvoodoo]

I'm in the middle of a series re-listen and I noticed something that I haven't heard mentioned on the forums yet: Saul said he was teaching Lady to follow scents (He said it right after he got her from his house). Seems minor but who knows what will come of that. Maybe Lady (who we now know can't turn) might become something like a homing pigeon for the Tower.

[Saint]

But it they are starving and they are cannibals, then why don't they attack each other?
I think that's the point - they are attacking each other when its "feasible" (if I can use that term) - recall somewhere in episode 10 I think when Angel and Riley are rescuing Datu from the arena - they see the wave running - he says they're not running "towards" us, they're running "from" something - that was the (my) first indication that some zombies feed on others

[Saint]

"Pretty sneaky sis" *from an old Battleship game commercial*
Crow I think that's from a "Connect 4" commercial

Sorry for the old-post cut-and paste answers - newbie and catching up on convo's while waiting for the newest episode.

Great points and discussion - especially like the enthusiasm and willingness to cede points to each other - really great forum!

Aside from (or in addition to) all the outstanding observations, points and counter points, the thing that really, really stands out to me is this: normal "group forming" dynamics go through some general phases "Forming – Storming – Norming – Performing" - often in parallel and sometimes forward one step, back two. It just seems to me that there's been a whole lotta storm, skepticism and dis/mistrust very, very early in each relationship and not as much "holy crap, you're alive, me too, WTF is going on?!?" as I expected. Maybe this is superfluous to the story (and one or two examples represent the "everyperson" experience) or maybe everyone/group has already had their experience with a two-legged vermin and is now uber-cautious.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Hey Saint!

Welcome aboard the WA Train! Was that from Connect Four? Why do I remember it being "Battle Ship?" *runs off to google it*
Well Hot dayamn! It WAS! *grabs faulty memory by the throat and starts shaking* You're right, this is a great site and there are good peeps here. I haven't seen one pot shot or negative post.
Great call on the group dynamics by the way. As you know, they can stay in any stage of any good length of time. Storming seems to be the one they stay in the most and it makes sense though. It's only been a few months really. A few months of high stress levels. I'm suprised they haven't reached the "Beat that A.." stage. LOL.

Ok, time for a Crowbar Observation Moment:
Is it just me or does it seem that the Mallers really don't seem all that fazed, scared or worried about the infected. I say that for the following reasons:

1. The huge amount of land they claim as their territory!
a. that means they have really good firepower
b. They have a lot of man power
c. They've been very, very proactive in cleaning out the infected

2. The distance they've traveled outside their territory to recapture/bring back the AWOL.
a. See what I said above.

[shananala8]

I think the "territory" thing is more of a holdover from the gang lifestyle than a declaration of a "zombie free" zone. The first time we meet Latch and Scratch, their primary concern is that Burt, Saul, and Lizzie are taking property from them. While I agree that they seem oddly unconcerned with the zombie outbreak, I see the territory issue being more of a mass looting strategy.

[Saint]

Thanks Crow,

Mallers are an interesting blend of "prototypical" criminals and unique talents.
proto-criminals (academic background talking here): "most" criminals demonstrate a "failure" to foresee results - that's not to say they don't plan, they just don't plan iterations and potential consequences of action (hence recidivism rates) - which lends itself to your sub-points (all reasons to believe they can take on a wave of inhuman beasties, without considering the "yeah, but what about...").
Scratch and Latch presented the very clever, scheming types - and also knew very early on that smell was a factor ("...your blood will be like a beacon...")
I see the point on the distance traveled part - I chalk that up to two possibilities: 1. they really have used up all immediate resources and going the distance for AWOL members is an add-on to their scavenging for "stuff" and a new place; 2. the AWOL took off with a ton-O-stuff and that's more valuable than getting the individual members.
I think Burt's reference to the Road Warrior (...just walk away) underscores your point about having man-power: join (get jumped in) or die; then work your way up the pecking order through skill, brutality or both.
I really have to get back to work now - between the 15 min coffee break post (that lasted 25 min) and this one, I am not having a productive Friday!

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I'm playing "Left 4 Dead" with my 14 year old daughter and boy what wouldn't I give to have Crowbar! LOL.

Saint, I agree with part of what you said about criminals not having great forethought to actions. BUT, the one thing I know is that they know how to survive. I just feel that they're aren't too concerned about the infected is because they've been proactive during their territorial expansion.
Given, there isn't anyone left to contest the areas they claim, but to claim it, you have to be able to hold it in the first place.

Durai could be the King of the Mountain, but his Lt's could very well be allowed to run little fiefdoms and pay tithe to him.
I also think that the Mallers are following Duria's Sociatal Ethos: Meaning they're following his standards on how to deal with each other in manners involving fairness, justice and the rights of the individual. He could be the Kyle Craig (gotta read the Alex Cross novels by James Patterson to get that ref) of the WAverse.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Anyone notice how Steven seemed to have an ulterior motive to his actions?
I paid attention to what he was saying and HOW he was saying it and it seemed to be leading towards a power play. Remember how he yelled to everyone how HE could and would be able to enforce the rules? I don't think that was Tourette syndrome.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I just thought of something..
Why aren't there "Waves" of attackes in LA like they have near the colony???
What makes their behavior different? People have been able to wander the LA area pretty much unmolested. Not so much in the south west.

[Rock Daddy]

Good question. I would guess the smell of the couple hundred humans there is attracting larger numbers to the area...?

[HardKor]

I would guess the smell of the couple hundred humans there is attracting larger numbers to the area...?
Yeah I got to agree with that. Plus since the zombies have been shown to have the ability to strategize in some ways, I would think they should be able to recognize that there is a large encampment of humans and then gather in that area and just keep attacking it.

[Kc]

I just thought of something..
Why aren't there "Waves" of attackes in LA like they have near the colony???
What makes their behavior different? People have been able to wander the LA area pretty much unmolested. Not so much in the south west.
"Waves" or "Wave"

[Eviebae]

"Waves" or "Wave"

Ooooooooooooooo
Is this a hint?
Ooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

"Waves" or "Wave"

Ya know, KC is like the Road Runner and all of us are Will E. Coyote! Damn him!

I'm going with "WAVES" because Pete says something like "Damn, they got us good THIS time didn't they?!"
That lead me to the conclusion that even if they Colony never directly suffers attacks (that we know of), the area sure gets them often.

[Rock Daddy]

Ya know, KC is like the Road Runner and all of us are Will E. Coyote! Damn him!

I'm going with "WAVES" because Pete says something like "Damn, they got us good THIS time didn't they?!"
That lead me to the conclusion that even if The Colony never directly suffers attacks (that we know of), the area sure gets them often.

I'm going with crowbar here... Why would The Colony have such a streamlined communications system for the recon teams with safe-houses and traps, if it was only a one time deal? Plus it didn't seem like that was Victor's first rodeo...

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Exactamundo my friend!

The Listening and Observation posts are there for a reason. Early warning.

oh.. and take the Y off "They"
should read "The Colony"

[nikvoodoo]

I'm gonna try to steer the conversation a touch: what if what Kc was talking about was a coordinated multi-front attack by the the zombies? Discuss.

And as for why people in L.A. can wander freely vs. the Colony: who knows? Maybe it's because it just seems worse at the Colony because we weren't there as long. We don't know what a typical day in the life of a recon team is. Or it could be another example of one of my theories that the zombies attack targets that are bigger threats to their survival. The Colony would be far more threatening to me than the Tower would be on the surface of things. The reality is, the Colony is far more dangerous to zombie survival.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Nik,
..er Capt Nik, permision to speak freely Sir!

why do you say the Tower is more dangerous? Is it because they're closer?
Coordinated multi-front attack? Hmmm... that would call for multiple targets then.
Would those multiple targets just be the observation posts or other pockets of unknown survivors?
Who is the coordinator then? Sir Tattoo so far is the only cat we've been exposed to who seems to have a singular nature.
I know you've kicked around the idea of Ink and the "Observer" being 2 different beings, but a coordinated attack would mean they aren't so special after all.
My last question goes back to Pete's statement:
why'd you think you said "this time?"

Saul for Senate!

[nikvoodoo]

Nik,
..er Capt Nik, permision to speak freely Sir!

why do you say the Tower is more dangerous? Is it because they're closer?
Coordinated multi-front attack? Hmmm... that would call for multiple targets then.
Would those multiple targets just be the observation posts or other pockets of unknown survivors?
Who is the coordinator then? Sir Tattoo so far is the only cat we've been exposed to who seems to have a singular nature.
I know you've kicked around the idea of Ink and the "Observer" being 2 different beings, but a coordinated attack would mean they aren't so special after all.
My last question goes back to Pete's statement:
why'd you think you said "this time?"

Saul for Senate!

No, I said the Colony was more dangerous. The Tower is a small pocket of survivors that haven't really caused to many waves. They've basically just been sorta hanging out and doing their own thing. The colony is large and coordinated and pose a larger threat.

There are multiple entrances to the Colony. That's what I mean by multi-front attack. They come from both directions. And if who you call "Observer" (and I call "Rooftop") is coordinating the attacks, then they are just as special as they were before. They are the General calling the shots still. I realize this is a stretch. I'm just posing thoughts.

As for this time: we've heard examples of other attacks. and I'm sure just like the tower there's the initial attack they suffered after Pegs dropped the flower pot. No one really got hurt, and nothing bad really happened. Next attack was worse because Paul got destroyed by The Tattooed One. The attack after that was worse yet (though arguably the Mallers did worse). So that's what I always took that to mean. This particular attack was pretty demoralizing in Pete's opinion.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I'm gonna try to steer the conversation a touch: what if what Kc was talking about was a coordinated multi-front attack by the the zombies? Discuss.

And as for why people in L.A. can wander freely vs. the Colony: who knows? Maybe it's because it just seems worse at the Colony because we weren't there as long. We don't know what a typical day in the life of a recon team is. Or it could be another example of one of my theories that the zombies attack targets that are bigger threats to their survival. The Colony would be far more threatening to me than the Tower would be on the surface of things. The reality is, the Tower is far more dangerous to zombie survival.

"The reality is, the Tower is far more dangerous to zombie survival"

that's the part I guess I was asking about my man. So now I'm doubly confused.

[nikvoodoo]

"The reality is, the Tower is far more dangerous to zombie survival"

that's the part I guess I was asking about my man. So now I'm doubly confused.

Well that would be because it makes no sense. Typo=confusion. I meant the Colony. I've fixed it above to clarify that for anyone else that comes here.

[Eviebae]

"most" criminals demonstrate a "failure" to foresee results - that's not to say they don't plan, they just don't plan iterations and potential consequences of action

Meaning, maybe, the difference between criminals and prisoners.:P

Seriously though, I hope KC continues to create characters that are allowed to change and grow. The more I know about PTSD and ADHD, the more it explains the behavior of a lot of criminals.

[Z Sniper]

I'm gonna try to steer the conversation a touch: what if what Kc was talking about was a coordinated multi-front attack by the the zombies? Discuss.

And as for why people in L.A. can wander freely vs. the Colony: who knows? Maybe it's because it just seems worse at the Colony because we weren't there as long. We don't know what a typical day in the life of a recon team is. Or it could be another example of one of my theories that the zombies attack targets that are bigger threats to their survival. The Colony would be far more threatening to me than the Tower would be on the surface of things. The reality is, the Colony is far more dangerous to zombie survival.

You're right, we don't know the typical day in the life of a recon team, but my guess is we're going to find out a lot in the coming chapters now that Victor is in the tower. I'm guessing he's got a lot to talk about regarding zombie tactics and strategies, how the recon teams engaged and observed. If in fact Victor had several "sorties", he's got A LOT of experience gathering intel himself and surviving the "waves".

It's mentioned that the walls of the colony had the markings of zombie attacks. I'm thinking with so many people in the colony, the scent is making these zombies a bit more aggressive in their "possibly" coordinated attacks.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Z,

I was also referring to the ability of the Mallers to roam "their" territory fairly freely. A few people even asked about them being able to show up at the Tower with a good size force and not have any problems. If you look at the map, their area is pretty f'n huge!
Now they have teams out rounding up deserters??! Seems like they'd just chalk them up as creature food instead of taking chances of losing MORE people to the infected.
Those cats are roaming greater LA like it's the open plains during the Gold Rush.

The Colony area seems to have a heavier concentration of the infected. Maybe the creatures are migrating?

[Eviebae]

...A few people even asked about them being able to show up at the Tower with a good size force and not have any problems.

I noticed that. During the war the Mallers made all kinds of noise but the zomboids didn't come running til they dropped the sweat. I thought that was really odd. Plus, the Mallers didn't seem at all prepared for them showing up. Come to think of it, there were an awful lot of zomboids at that point, so maybe they were clustering kinda far away.

[kafu288]

I think the zombies are learning.

Yes, some of them start out smart, like the marked one and the ones who can talk. But I think the others are capable of learning, at least to some degree. For example, in the army base the zombies know that Angel can't see them. The jumper knows that they are in the other building. If you look at the first lot of zombies in teh army base the first time, they were really stupid. "We left the keys in the door". It just seems like, as the series progresses, the zombies are getting smarter.

Also, the leader may have been a zombie for a while. Remember in the first episode, they mention how the mental asylum is only about 10 miles away. That's a big distance but not when your as fast as they are. We know that a marked serial killer was put in the mental asylum because he was judged insane. What if he had already been a zombie? As far as I can remember, they never mention exactly how he killed the people.

[Dyehardjr]

I think the zombies are learning.

Yes, some of them start out smart, like the marked one and the ones who can talk. But I think the others are capable of learning, at least to some degree. For example, in the army base the zombies know that Angel can't see them. The jumper knows that they are in the other building. If you look at the first lot of zombies in teh army base the first time, they were really stupid. "We left the keys in the door". It just seems like, as the series progresses, the zombies are getting smarter.

Also, the leader may have been a zombie for a while. Remember in the first episode, they mention how the mental asylum is only about 10 miles away. That's a big distance but not when your as fast as they are. We know that a marked serial killer was put in the mental asylum because he was judged insane. What if he had already been a zombie? As far as I can remember, they never mention exactly how he killed the people.

That makes complete sense. The zombies could gain greater intellect the more they experience the world. We know that a good chunk of the human population was turned into 'them', and that means that there are a huge ammount left. And as the weakest ones die, the greater and stronger ones learn and live on. Natural selection in a way.

But another question that's been buggin' me is "how exactly did the zombies realize that they should create a hive"? When you think about it, the arena is a large place that many zombies can fit in, and it could also work as a defencive structure for many MANY survivors... but how did the zombies actually discover to 'mimic' humans, and create their own bases of operations? Could they all be that smart?

[nikvoodoo]

But another question that's been buggin' me is "how exactly did the zombies realize that they should create a hive"? When you think about it, the arena is a large place that many zombies can fit in, and it could also work as a defencive structure for many MANY survivors... but how did the zombies actually discover to 'mimic' humans, and create their own bases of operations? Could they all be that smart?

That really wouldn't require all that much. At our basest, most basic: human beings are animals. Intelligent animals with higher brain functions (speech, self awareness etc), but still just animals. The basic instincts of similar animals to ourselves is to group together for protection, and community sharing. If you want to assume that the zombies in We're Alive have lost their higher brain functions (with some notable exceptions), it's basically causing the human race to devolve back to an earlier incarnation of homo-sapiens.

[kafu288]

and if you take out a portion of the human brain you increase violence and bring human's down to a almost mindless level. Maybe the zombie "virus" for lack of a better word does this to the victims?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Two things I "Noticed" in the last episode:

Victor wasn't with the rescue team (i never assumed he'd stick his neck out for folk he didn't know anyway).
Saul called Riley "Frenchie." hmm... Now i'm thinking she may be North African instead of East Indian..

[cPT.cAPSLOCK]

As you can find on Riley's wiki page, you'll find that she's French. So the North African / East Indian thought you had is incorrect.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Capt,

Her being French doesn't keep her from being non Caucasian/European. Them thar Liberal Frenchies will let anyone in their country.
but really, France is very multi ethnic. Any of the above is possible though.

[cPT.cAPSLOCK]

I'm aware of that.
I just realized that I misread your comment, causing a slight miscommunication - I thought you guessed Riley came from Africa or India, but that you said it conflicted with her being French.
Nothing to see here, move along ^^;

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

ROFL! Sir, You are a gentleman and a scholar! Our seconds can put away their side arms!

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Just noticed something as I listened to the first 3 chapters again today. I assumed that Mike and Saul were calling Angel by his last name until I read a post today saying his last name is "Tunudo" (sp?)
Having said that, they started out calling him Lt Angel instead of Lt Tunudo. Weird or a big OOOPS?

[nikvoodoo]

So as I was listening to WND while re-reading over my blog post for chapter 22, two of my brain cells collided. Usually when this happens, I either fall down in the middle of the sidewalk, or I have an idea. This time, I had an idea.

Remember how the Mallers had that array of radios scanning the airwaves and I'm presuming the Mallers heard Micahel's call to the Tower about help down South? Seems to stand to reason that means the Mallers also would have been listening in on Pegs call to Angel where she made him agree to bring Latch's body back to Scratch. Don't know if that does anything for the story, but it's just something that I thought I should throw out there.

Besides, this catch all thread has fallen way too far back in the line. It deserved a little resurrection, and this random tid bit of knowledge isn't big enough for its own thread and should probably go here. *hint hint, wink wink, nudge nudge*

[Grognaurd]

Episode 1
Michael says that his parents "Live" in northern California.
Separate dying Embers
Michael tells Kelly
His Parents died while he was on his last tour in Iraq

Episode 1
Riley says she does not remember how to shoot a gun.
Late Episode 1 Early Episode 2
She hands what she thinks is a Colt .45 to Michael. Maybe the ammo box / gun are labeled. If not labeled, she would likely forget how to identify a gun before she forgot how to shoot it.

Episode 1
Datu says he thinks he recognizes Michael. Michael says no. Impulsive liar? Why would he be afraid to say yea, his girlfriend lives here. After that type of devistation, the human psyche is to build bridges, not barriers.

Epidose ?
When they are repairing the loby, I think Lizzy is welding. She learned it from Todd. He liked to work on Motorcycles and she wanted to be part of his life. Ok, PhD falls for bike mechanic. OK, I have seen similar. But, how much welding goes into working on motorcycles? Ah, as I write it, I think I solved part of it. Maybe Todd Built bikes from "SCRATCH"... Alternatively, he might have been part of an illegal chopshop.

Episode 2(?)
When they rescue Burt he says that someone raided his shop before he got there. That is pretty damn quick. When scratch confronts Burt the first time. She is "Locked and Loaded." Lock and Loaded seems to be a franchise (Saul said I did not know they had one of these in LA), so she may have hit another one. But, my guess is she hit Burt's and she got into his safe pretty damn easily. Later we heard that Latch got a "weapon" out of a safe. Was this Burt's safe? She would have had to gotten Latch out much earlier than I thought. But, this begs the question "why would Burt have a Weapon in his safe" Maybe I read too much into this. But, I got the impression the weapon is something special. Scratch did not want to use it unless she had to. In addition, it is called a weapon. Not a pistol, rifle, LAWS, etc.

When they rescue Burt
Burt says something like, Roll him over. "See that, thats a level 3 access to Radon Labs. You have to be pretty smart to get one of those" or something similar. Why would Burt know that? Hell, level 3 could be the cafeteria or the reception.

Is that the only mention of Radon Labs? I know ground zero is mentioned a few times. But I do not recall Radon Labs specifically. Radon Labs could be related to ground zero. But, we know from the news cast that major outbreaks are occuring in (a few US cities are listed) and international... Cut off.

[Creem_Filling]

Episode 1
Michael says that his parents "Live" in northern California.
Separate dying Embers
Michael tells Kelly
His Parents died while he was on his last tour in Iraq

I think he just told Saul and Angle that because he didn't want to talk about it.

Episode 1
Riley says she does not remember how to shoot a gun.
Late Episode 1 Early Episode 2
She hands what she thinks is a Colt .45 to Michael. Maybe the ammo box / gun are labeled. If not labeled, she would likely forget how to identify a gun before she forgot how to shoot it.

I can't remember, but wasn't that after she recieved some training from Michael? That training could have jogged her memory. Plus knowing how to shoot and knowing guns is different.

Datu says he thinks he recognizes Michael. Michael says no. Impulsive liar? Why would he be afraid to say yea, his girlfriend lives here. After that type of devistation, the human psyche is to build bridges, not barriers.

I think Datu was actually talking to Angel. And since Angel's girlfriend lived there, Datu had probably seen him before. But Angel was scared she might be dead.

When they rescue Burt
Burt says something like, Roll him over. "See that, thats a level 3 access to Radon Labs. You have to be pretty smart to get one of those" or something similar. Why would Burt know that? Hell, level 3 could be the cafeteria or the reception.

He may not know for sure. But it's a safe assumption. The zombie was smart enough to get up there and he was from Radon Lab, you could safely make the connections in your head.

[j0be]

Episode 1
Michael says that his parents "Live" in northern California.
Separate dying Embers
Michael tells Kelly
His Parents died while he was on his last tour in Iraq

I'm pretty sure the original time of him saying his parents lived up north was a lie to cover up how he was feeling. The later story he explained that his parents death had brought him a lot of guilt.


Episode 1
Riley says she does not remember how to shoot a gun.
Late Episode 1 Early Episode 2
She hands what she thinks is a Colt .45 to Michael. Maybe the ammo box / gun are labeled. If not labeled, she would likely forget how to identify a gun before she forgot how to shoot it.

She said it had been a while since she had shot a gun. Not that she had seen one. Many firearm contests also feature other hunting exercises including archery. Also, I've only fired about 3 types of guns in my life, but I can easily identify more than that.


Episode 1
Datu says he thinks he recognizes Michael. Michael says no. Impulsive liar? Why would he be afraid to say yea, his girlfriend lives here. After that type of devistation, the human psyche is to build bridges, not barriers.
This was Datu recognizing ANGEL, not Michael. And I believe Angel's motivation would have been at the time to remain the protector of these people. If Datu knew that he had been there before to see Cindy, he mind have doubted the motives for the building. Kc did verify that Datu recognized him from his visits to see Cindy.


Epidose ?
When they are repairing the loby, I think Lizzy is welding. She learned it from Todd. He liked to work on Motorcycles and she wanted to be part of his life. Ok, PhD falls for bike mechanic. OK, I have seen similar. But, how much welding goes into working on motorcycles? Ah, as I write it, I think I solved part of it. Maybe Todd Built bikes from "SCRATCH"... Alternatively, he might have been part of an illegal chopshop.
If you're a professional mechanic, you know how to weld. You need to for a wide variety of tasks.


Episode 2(?)
When they rescue Burt he says that someone raided his shop before he got there. That is pretty damn quick. When scratch confronts Burt the first time. She is "Locked and Loaded." Lock and Loaded seems to be a franchise (Saul said I did not know they had one of these in LA), so she may have hit another one. But, my guess is she hit Burt's and she got into his safe pretty damn easily. Later we heard that Latch got a "weapon" out of a safe. Was this Burt's safe? She would have had to gotten Latch out much earlier than I thought. But, this begs the question "why would Burt have a Weapon in his safe" Maybe I read too much into this. But, I got the impression the weapon is something special. Scratch did not want to use it unless she had to. In addition, it is called a weapon. Not a pistol, rifle, LAWS, etc.
It had been several days after the outbreak when they found Burt. He was into Hypoglycemia by that point, and that doesn't happen overnight. But I'm pretty sure the first thing Scratch did after z-day, was to go try to get her brother out. About the weapon, I'm pretty sure that's a foreshadowing we just don't know about yet.


When they rescue Burt
Burt says something like, Roll him over. "See that, thats a level 3 access to Radon Labs. You have to be pretty smart to get one of those" or something similar. Why would Burt know that? Hell, level 3 could be the cafeteria or the reception.
He was speculating that a level 3 was a level. If I noticed a bunch of "intelligent" zombies, and they all had Radon Labs Clearance Level 3+, I would start assuming too


Is that the only mention of Radon Labs? I know ground zero is mentioned a few times. But I do not recall Radon Labs specifically. Radon Labs could be related to ground zero. But, we know from the news cast that major outbreaks are occuring in (a few US cities are listed) and international... Cut off.
It is the only mention of Radon labs thus far. This could be an Umbrella like corporation with ties across the world if they are the cause.
But it could just be a red herring.
http://wikicheats.gametrailers.com/images/thumb/1/11/Monkey_island_Bridge_troll.jpg/300px-Monkey_island_Bridge_troll.jpg

[Kc]

http://wikicheats.gametrailers.com/images/thumb/1/11/Monkey_island_Bridge_troll.jpg/300px-Monkey_island_Bridge_troll.jpg
You shall not pass!

[Leedo2502]

He was speculating that a level 3 was a level. If I noticed a bunch of "intelligent" zombies, and they all had Radon Labs Clearance Level 3+, I would start assuming too


It is the only mention of Radon labs thus far. This could be an Umbrella like corporation with ties across the world if they are the cause.
But it could just be a red herring.


Radon Labs was a German gaming company. But with KC's penchant for mixing a few of the numbers in unit identifiers or leaving them out (like with the 10th Mtn Div) maybe this could be reference to Raytheon type company. Raytheon is a defense contractor that mainly deals with electronics, weapons and the like, but maybe in the story has something to do with the outbreak.

IDK I do have a habit of reading to much into the story (my helicopter tangent for example).

[j0be]

Radon Labs was a German gaming company. But with KC's penchant for mixing a few of the numbers in unit identifiers or leaving them out (like with the 10th Mtn Div) maybe this could be reference to Raytheon type company. Raytheon is a defense contractor that mainly deals with electronics, weapons and the like, but maybe in the story has something to do with the outbreak.

IDK I do have a habit of reading to much into the story (my helicopter tangent for example).

Or it could be a fictional company like Locked and Loaded

[Leedo2502]

Or it could be a fictional company like Locked and Loaded

Yeah I was assuming it would be fictional if they are implicated in the Zombie Apocolypse (law suits and whatnot). I thought that Radon Labs was a legit thing then I realised that I was thinking Raytheon and that's where my connection is drawn from.

[Grognaurd]

Ok, thanks.

Datu / Michael / Angel. My bad. I "know" that.

Granted, they found Burt after a couple / few days. But, Burt says his shop was raided before he (Burt) got there

I get the impression that Scratch used the confusion of Z-day to spring her Brother. My guess, Zombie Rampage. Scratch robs Burt's store. Scratch goes to Eastern Bay. Burt gets to his store. Zombies get to Burt's Store.

Believe me, I am not tryinig to nitpik. I am just trying to make sure I did not miss something that might be important. I enjoy listening to the stories. But, I also spend a lot of time Rumminating on lose ends.

I am pretty sure that Riley says she had shot A gun, but she does not remember how. Granted, an Archer may come across gun people. But, to say you do not remember. That seems overdone.

Multiple zombies from Raydon Labs. I did not get that impression, but I can go back and check.

As you say, Raydon Labs could be a red herring. But, I also think that the best story writers plant seemingly unimportant details that are often overlooked but come back to be important later.

So I am expecting Raydon Labs and CJ and other fragments to come back and be important like Michael's Arm and the other bigger ones.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Ok, thanks.

Datu / Michael / Angel. My bad. I "know" that.

Granted, they found Burt after a couple / few days. But, Burt says his shop was raided before he (Burt) got there

I get the impression that Scratch used the confusion of Z-day to spring her Brother. My guess, Zombie Rampage. Scratch robs Burt's store. Scratch goes to Eastern Bay. Burt gets to his store. Zombies get to Burt's Store.


Here's what you have to remember too Sir Arthur:
Burt's "small" safe was hit by a Professional. This hasn't been proven nor disproved by KC but the general consensus is that the Mallers didn't sit on their hands once the break out jumped off. It's been theorized from the beginning that it was in Durai's personality type to be proactive (which has been proven as fact now).
So, you can guess that one of the first places they hit was Burt's shop. The handgun (which by the way is called a Firearm while Carbines and above are called Weapons) that Scratch had is a from the shop.
We know for a fact that Skittles saw the "bad people" raid the reserve armory as well.

Burt got to his shop after it was emptied but just in time to get trapped by the infected.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Ok, thanks.

Datu / Michael / Angel. My bad. I "know" that.

Granted, they found Burt after a couple / few days. But, Burt says his shop was raided before he (Burt) got there

I get the impression that Scratch used the confusion of Z-day to spring her Brother. My guess, Zombie Rampage. Scratch robs Burt's store. Scratch goes to Eastern Bay. Burt gets to his store. Zombies get to Burt's Store.
.

I was listening to my newly arrived CDs and I had an "AH HA!" moment! So, I noticed something i hadn't...er, noticed, a few times before.
Here goes:
I know why scratch holds the position of influence she does.
I think its on disc 6, but it's the episode where Scratch and Latch are talking and trying to figure out what lie to tell to Durai.

Scratch is number two because:

- She not only freed her brother, but she freed ALL of the remaining prisoners.
-That means that Durai owes her a debt of gratitude.

I know who (being the operative word) fired "The Shot Heard Around The World" and is possibly the "Rat."

- "HE" lived on the 3rd floor (where the shot came from)
- He was on guard duty shortly before Saul came motoring back after his recon of the Mallers
- He is unnamed because Angel doesn't remember it. He just remembers who the guy was and what floor he stayed on.

The enhances the "Red Shirt" theory.

[Grognaurd]

Yes, it is my impression that she Hit Locked and Loaded to get a few weapons. Than makes it to Eastern Bay to free her Brother (and the others of course) When I try to game it out, I can not get the zombies to hit Eastern Bay, have the mallers escape, have the mallers cross back across town hit Burt's safe before Burt and the Zombies get there. I think "The Weapon" taken from a safe mentioned later is not from Burt's same safe.

The way I see it, Scratch hits Locked and Loaded. Scratch crosses town in the infancy of the zombie outbreak and hits Eastern Bay just before the Zombies get there.

I am not following the rat idea. We know a shot came from the third floor. The person may not live there. No clue about the Guard Duty / Return of Saul. No clue about Angel

What I will point out is that Ammo was at a premium in the tower. There are not a people who would have access to common supply of the tower. Indicating to me that they had their own Stash.

[nikvoodoo]

What I will point out is that Ammo was at a premium in the tower. There are not a people who would have access to common supply of the tower. Indicating to me that they had their own Stash.

The Tower had just been robbed blind. Ammo would not have been at a premium for the thief (and assuming Bill wasn't the thief and was just a patsy). Whomever stole the ammo would have access to a metric shit ton of ammunition...relatively of course.

[Grognaurd]

OK, got it. I came with the Bias that Bill was The Theif. I can not easily place a duplicate Key with anyone else but Bill. If I stretch it, Datu may have his own copy in addition to the one in the key case that he plants in Bill's room. Or, Burt seemed to have befriended Bill and repaired his shotgun. Maybe Burt stole the key at that time.

[nikvoodoo]

OK, got it. I came with the Bias that Bill was The Theif. I can not easily place a duplicate Key with anyone else but Bill. If I stretch it, Datu may have his own copy in addition to the one in the key case that he plants in Bill's room. Or, Burt seemed to have befriended Bill and repaired his shotgun. Maybe Burt stole the key at that time.

Bill could very well be the thief, but the possibility exists that Bill was set up from the beginning. Remember in addition to Burt and Bill's friendship that seemed to have formed, Bill had been sick leading up to The War and had people coming in and taking care of him. Anyone of his (unidentified) caretakers could have swiped the master key from Bill. Again, this isn't fact, just opening up another possibility.

[Grognaurd]

Good Point! I forgot about where are my cucumbers

If we remove Bill as The Thief, who do we have left?

Numerous Minor Characters
Pegs
Lizzy
Kelley

If we define
Thief == Rat == Shooter
Pegs
Kelley

If Rat == Shooter. We
Eliminate Victor, Tanya, Hope as suspects

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Yes, it is my impression that she Hit Locked and Loaded to get a few weapons. Than makes it to Eastern Bay to free her Brother (and the others of course) When I try to game it out, I can not get the zombies to hit Eastern Bay, have the mallers escape, have the mallers cross back across town hit Burt's safe before Burt and the Zombies get there. I think "The Weapon" taken from a safe mentioned later is not from Burt's same safe.

The way I see it, Scratch hits Locked and Loaded. Scratch crosses town in the infancy of the zombie outbreak and hits Eastern Bay just before the Zombies get there.

I am not following the rat idea. We know a shot came from the third floor. The person may not live there. No clue about the Guard Duty / Return of Saul. No clue about Angel

What I will point out is that Ammo was at a premium in the tower. There are not a people who would have access to common supply of the tower. Indicating to me that they had their own Stash.

It was days after the outbreak that Angel and Saul found Burt. The rate the infection spread, Eastern Bay was hit within the first day.
Scatch couldn't have hit Burt's shop solo. Too much was taken. Plus she didn't have ammo during their first encounter. Remember, that whomever got into his "Small" safe "KNEW" what they were doing. Same as the person who circumvented the alarm system at the tower. The person is a Professional.
My Rat theory isn't off the top of my head. It's right from a conversation Angel and Michael had. I'll get the exact epi and time hack, but like I said, it's from disc 6...crap, maybe it's 7. LOL.
Confirmed. Episode 6 part III. Time hack is 12:34. Right as Angel and Mike are talking about all the bodies being gone. Mike asks Angel who was on watch that night.


Arthur, at 17:56 in the same episode, Angel confirms (speculates) that the Mallers are the ones who've raided all the stores in the area.

[Grognaurd]

My assumption is that Burt is a hardcore survivalist. Zombie Outbreak, Explosions, automatic gunfire etc. I do not think there was much time before the start and Burt getting to his store. But, the store was robbed before he got there. Sure, a mob could hit Burt's store and steal a bunch of crap. But, I agree someone who knows what they are doing broke into the safe. A safe cracker is not commonly found in a mob. But, a career criminal could have safe cracking skills. Scratch is most likely a career criminal. How much ammo could she carry and how much did she consume breaking into the prison? Prisons are designed to keep people in and to keep people out. But throw in the wild card of a zombie outbreak and that could add enough chaos for a gunman to break in and then lead a break out.

Remember, there are not really a lot of guns in a prison. Guns provide range and the one thing that is not wanted is for the inmates to have range. The guards that stroll in the blocks are not armed like a police officer. "Civility" is kept because even if they kill a guard or two, they still do not have a ranged weapon to project power and the outer containment walls are not easily breached.

As for the skills for opening a safe yea, that person "gots Skills". But, the "alarm" system at Burt's is pretty dam simple. It is a simple break the electrical connection open the door, cut the wire and an alarm is sounded. I do not think it was anything sophisticated.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

My assumption is that Burt is a hardcore survivalist. Zombie Outbreak, Explosions, automatic gunfire etc. I do not think there was much time before the start and Burt getting to his store. But, the store was robbed before he got there. Sure, a mob could hit Burt's store and steal a bunch of crap. But, I agree someone who knows what they are doing broke into the safe. A safe cracker is not commonly found in a mob. But, a career criminal could have safe cracking skills. Scratch is most likely a career criminal. How much ammo could she carry and how much did she consume breaking into the prison? Prisons are designed to keep people in and to keep people out. But throw in the wild card of a zombie outbreak and that could add enough chaos for a gunman to break in and then lead a break out.

Remember, there are not really a lot of guns in a prison. Guns provide range and the one thing that is not wanted is for the inmates to have range. The guards that stroll in the blocks are not armed like a police officer. "Civility" is kept because even if they kill a guard or two, they still do not have a ranged weapon to project power and the outer containment walls are not easily breached.

As for the skills for opening a safe yea, that person "gots Skills". But, the "alarm" system at Burt's is pretty dam simple. It is a simple break the electrical connection open the door, cut the wire and an alarm is sounded. I do not think it was anything sophisticated.

My apologies but i'm actually sort of lost as to the point your making about Scratch.

as far as the Prisons go, they do have armories. The guards don't carry fire arms in general population because they can be used against them. The prisoners have the numbers. The guards who do the perimeter sweeps are armed. Sometimes the guards are in static posts around the perimeter as well.
I know this because I have a kid I used to mentor who's works corrections at the prison in Jackson Michigan.

[Grognaurd]

Scratch broke IN TO the prison to break out Latch. The rest of the mallers come with. Scratch asks Latch if he could have done what she did to get her out. It is my belief that Scratch behaved as a cold blooded murderer to get Latch out. I think Latch is not as unstable as Scratch and may not have murder in his background.

If Scratch broke in to the prison, she probably used a fire arm. She could have gotten it from Burt's store. The story uses connection to make it more interesting. 10 million people in LA and a boy and his mom both survive 30 miles apart? Yes my pinning the safe cracking on Scratch is a stretch, but if someone else claims Burt's place was hit by the mallers, you have to get them before Burt gets there. Burt's store and the prison are on opposite sides of the LA (east / west) with ground zero in the middle and the infection wave hitting both within 30 or so minutes apart.

Last and more reaching Latch sound like the nickname for someone opens things. Later scratch gets gut and the nickname just follows. More recently we again here latch in association with a safe.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Scratch broke IN TO the prison to break out Latch. The rest of the mallers come with. Scratch asks Latch if he could have done what she did to get her out. It is my belief that Scratch behaved as a cold blooded murderer to get Latch out. I think Latch is not as unstable as Scratch and may not have murder in his background.

If Scratch broke in to the prison, she probably used a fire arm. She could have gotten it from Burt's store. The story uses connection to make it more interesting. 10 million people in LA and a boy and his mom both survive 30 miles apart? Yes my pinning the safe cracking on Scratch is a stretch, but if someone else claims Burt's place was hit by the mallers, you have to get them before Burt gets there. Burt's store and the prison are on opposite sides of the LA (east / west) with ground zero in the middle and the infection wave hitting both within 30 or so minutes apart.

Last and more reaching Latch sound like the nickname for someone opens things. Later scratch gets gut and the nickname just follows. More recently we again here latch in association with a safe.

Ah.. I follow you now..kinda. (Latch was locked up so couldn't open anything right?) We have opposite theories, but i'm tracking.
Did you listen to her when she said she actually saved "Everyone" in the prison?

We do know that the infection spread crazy fast. Remember, all the tower residents were gone or turned by the time Mike and crew got there. There wasn't a soul on the streets during their trip there either. That wasn't a very long time for life to go from sweet to crap.
The guards at the prison left them to their fates. I think Latch was already at the prison when the outbreak happened (My theory).
She was probably there on visitation. That's also the reason they have other female 'Mallers."
The outbreak happened in the morning, which is normally the start of visitation hours (depends on the prisons, but they hardly have them in the evenings), so at any given time you'd have family and friends visiting and thereby getting stuck if they didn't make it out in time.
I'm assuming Scratch said "F it!" and stayed to save her bro, then her crazy ass went around letting all the other bastards loose.
Durai was probably the Big Man On Campus already, so he kept control after they left.

[Grognaurd]

Yes, I agree that Scratch sprung Latch and the mallers. Conversations point to that. I can get Scratch to Lock and Loaded before Burt. But not the mallers. Maybe you are right. The rioters get the odds and ends on Day one. Burt gets to the store. The zombies get to the store. Burt goes to the bathroom. Burt passs out and the mallers pop the safe. Our theories are not very different. The difference is when is Lock and Loaded's safe cracked

As long as I am going off the deep end, what is the chance that Burt lives in einglewoods? Saul's neighborhood is the ritz compared to where Burt lives. If raydon labs is in that neighborhood it might explain why he knows what a level three clearance looks like.

[lectio]

I have to say...I am so pumped for the return of the Raydon Labs theory. I was all over that in the beginning - especially with the smart climber guy. There's still a Raydon Labs key card out there - on the top of Burt's roof. It's there! I swear it! It's there!

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I have to admit that now that I have the discs to listen to, i've really noticed how much Riley has been hitting the bottle. That chick has been Fugged up a LOT!
I thought it was just the last couple of episodes, but nope! She's been tore up from the floor up, for a good number of early episodes during season 1.

[Grognaurd]

A few odds and ends cobbled together. Not a lot of time, so not my usual Wall of Text (WoT;pronounced What)

I am not claiminig Saul is the rat. I am just pointing out an observation. Scratch affirms Tardusts claim that they have not heard from the one already there in a while. It is just interesting that Saul could not speak with Mallers since the end of Chapter 1. He has been tied up for much of chapter 2. When he is in some privacy, one of the things he does is contact the mallers.

on the otherside, suppose Saul is a really slow turner. When Tommy turned he first became rather grumpy and confrontational. Saul is a little out there now.

Lizzy's puke seems to be way too stinky to be normal. How many times have we heard that? Even the next day at the arena over all the burning smells he complains that someone lost their lunch.

Scratch's entire personality shifts towards Lizzy once she finds out that Lizzy is sick. Odd. She goes from screaming about Lizzy killing her men to, are you sick? take the cuffs off.

Victor, WTF? Michael has called him a good fighter. Angel called him a big help. Victor says he is way better than Riley. But, what is the evidence? Michael saw him run to a safe house and get his partner killed in the process. Sure, he springs Michael and they run away in the dark. As my nephew would say Big Whop! In my opinion, Victor hasn't shown anything worth the accolades. He may be faster and a better aim than Burt, but we really have not seem Victor do anything

Jumpers
We saw them a few times in Chapter 1. We have not seen them in chapter 2. Skittles mentions he has not seen them. But, that could just be a plot device to remind the listener there are Jumpers. If there is one zombie threat to a Helicopter it would be aJumpersper. Of course, if they fly through downtown LA between tall buidings there could be some "suicidal" zombies jumping off the roof or through windows to fall down on the rotors and take the helicopter out.

Red Alert
We still have a building adjacent to The Tower that is filled with Red Shirts. No named characters are there. Target of opportunity for the writer...

Parking garage. When Tanya left she did not sut the gate. It was left open "about a foot" One of the wee ones or more could have gotten inside as the traditional biters create a distraction.

[MancheeLivesOn]

I'm going to question the longevity of the outbreak. Sure it's worldwide but there's only a limited food supply since and will only reduce their numbers with canabalism. They need to eat and sleep so they are indeed 'alive'. That being said they have no means towards a second generation aside from the Little Ones. They mentioned that all food expires in two years and with the dwindling supply of humans to feast on zombies will exhaust any food left to scavenge and cut the two year timer short. Plus winter is coming up and from what I can tell most of these zombies have no self preservation instinct. Zombies will freeze over the winter and all that's left are some of the smarter ones who holed up for the winter and any Little Ones they may create.

(Not all of this is fully thought out or coherent/in order but I figured I might try and spark an idea in someone.)

[Grognaurd]

Well, twinkles and hot dogs have a date on the package, but they will expire if wrapped 8)

[Grognaurd]

** Bleep **

[yoyoyoyo15]

Why are there dead bodies in the water plant? Wouldn't they either be turned or completely obliterated by the behemoth? Was someone trying to set a trap for the tower? Idk of anyone has said this yet but I just thought of it.

[Bray]

Could be that they were hiding in there for so long they died of starvation? Can't remember if it said the bodies looked like they had been attacked by zombies.

Or perhaps they were killed and then a behemoth turned up and scared off their killers?

[yoyoyoyo15]

Very possible although them being "fresh kills" just has me thinking someone was planning on attracting people and I don't think it was ink or the zombies or whatever because they would eat them... Could it have something to do with randi/randy... Could the mallers/colony have been there previously?.... It just has me thinking that the water going out was not an accident.

[Bray]

Personally, I think that the people there were from the other tower, they had been keeping the water running the whole time, then something (maller or pinstripes) has taken out the water supply to either lure people there so they can get into the other tower and attack it with less people there (if it's pinstripes that did it) or if the mallers did then perhaps they wanted to lure the folk out from the other tower so they would fix the water, then be able to follow them back to the other tower and hope to take it like they tried with our tower.

I doubt it would be the colony, as far as I know they didn't travel very far out?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Why are there dead bodies in the water plant? Wouldn't they either be turned or completely obliterated by the behemoth? Was someone trying to set a trap for the tower? Idk of anyone has said this yet but I just thought of it.

There's already a thread for "Stuff you've noticed"
So i'm moving this there.