If all hell broke loose right now, what would you do?

[Solanine]

I think most of us are probably dead after about 48 hours. But hypotheticals are fun.

[reaper239]

Suppose. Have plenty of canned fruit in the house + soups. Living two hours from your nearest supermarket has its dis-advantages. Scurvy can be a problem, especially when the only fruit at the mom and pop shop is slowly composting on the store shelf.

it's not even about the ZA, any number of things could happen. two years ago i was snowed in for three days, couldn't leave. people in houston TX found themselves up a creek for about a week after a major hurricane. things happen, and it helps if you're at least somewhat prepared.

[Solanine]

it's not even about the ZA, any number of things could happen. two years ago i was snowed in for three days, couldn't leave. people in houston TX found themselves up a creek for about a week after a major hurricane. things happen, and it helps if you're at least somewhat prepared.

Natural disasters don't happen so much, the worst that really happens is that snow delays shipment of food for the local shop for a few days. But yeah, being prepared is important, although I'm not sure I'd survive anyway Z's or not.

[reaper239]

Natural disasters don't happen so much, the worst that really happens is that snow delays shipment of food for the local shop for a few days. But yeah, being prepared is important, although I'm not sure I'd survive anyway Z's or not.

not digging at you or anything, you live the way you feel you need to so i'm just making a point here. you live in england right? what if those youth riots came to your town? would you venture out for food? i don't know how bad they were but they looked pretty bad from here.

[yarri]

not digging at you or anything, you live the way you feel you need to so i'm just making a point here. you live in england right? what if those youth riots came to your town? would you venture out for food? i don't know how bad they were but they looked pretty bad from here.

Yep I will never forget the floods in Iowa of 93 when I lost my car and then got flooded out of a hotel we took shelter in when we lost our apartment too. I had to leave my dog in the hotel and carry my 3 month old son out and listen to my 3 year old daughter scream in terror as the firemen carried her out in chest deep water. I always have a good supply of canned goods in the house always.

[Solanine]

not digging at you or anything, you live the way you feel you need to so i'm just making a point here. you live in england right? what if those youth riots came to your town? would you venture out for food? i don't know how bad they were but they looked pretty bad from here.

I'm british but live in an undisclosed remote part of britain. And the riots happened in town centres mostly, away from residential areas.

[reaper239]

I'm british but live in an undisclosed remote part of britain. And the riots happened in town centres mostly, away from residential areas.

good point, but look at what's happening in greece, their entire damn economy has essentially collapsed. uncountable numbers of unemployed, entitlement riots, people leaving their kids on the doorsteps of churches and charities so the kids can eat while they sit at home and starve. and that all went down in the blink of an eye. it is amazing how fast things can go from peachy to total shitstorm. now i'm not saying become a doomsday prepper and start living out of a missle silo or any of that nonsense, but having a little extra food and some bottled water stored up can really help when you need to make your money stretch just a little further than usual. if it ever comes down to a choice between eating and rent (a place i found myself, but not from disaster, just piss poor planning) it would be great if you didn't actually have to make that choice. and severe weather happens, having some potable water stored away would help if you ever found your water coming out brown for some reason.

edit: if you can live in a missle silo, go for it. i would. what a cool pick up line, "hey baby, wanna come see my missle silo?"

[Solanine]

[QUOTE=reaper239;39056]good point, but look at what's happening in greece, their entire damn economy has essentially collapsed. uncountable numbers of unemployed, entitlement riots, people leaving their kids on the doorsteps of churches and charities so the kids can eat while they sit at home and starve. and that all went down in the blink of an eye. it is amazing how fast things can go from peachy to total shitstorm. now i'm not saying become a doomsday prepper and start living out of a missle silo or any of that nonsense, but having a little extra food and some bottled water stored up can really help when you need to make your money stretch just a little further than usual. if it ever comes down to a choice between eating and rent (a place i found myself, but not from disaster, just piss poor planning) it would be great if you didn't actually have to make that choice. and severe weather happens, having some potable water stored away would help if you ever found your water coming out brown for some reason.

edit: if you can live in a missle silo, go for it. i would. what a cool pick up line, "hey baby, wanna come see my missle silo?"[/QUOTE

No rent, house is fully owned, no mortgage. Have garden under construction that will provide some food day to day anyway. Have my bug out plan, if the worst comes to the worst I will make a tour of the local bothy's, the military quite often runs practice ops near me and leaves MRE's behind in the bothy as thanks for their being allowed to use them. Also rioters would have to march 120 miles by road from the nearest big town. To rob 300 people. And also as i said I've got plenty of canned goods.

[uuhhhuuu]

I HAVE A THEORY!! (so proud of myself lol)i think the colonel will DIE!! dun dun dun!! not sure how but it would fit the story great. i dont know how many soldiers are at the base, or even there ranks, but if the colonel dies some else can take over. maybe SGT Cross? :) OR MAYBE even a certain Lieutenant!! (is Angel a1st or 2nd lieutenant?) :D

[Solanine]

I HAVE A THEORY!! (so proud of myself lol)i think the colonel will DIE!! dun dun dun!! not sure how but it would fit the story great. i dont know how many soldiers are at the base, or even there ranks, but if the colonel dies some else can take over. maybe SGT Cross? :) OR MAYBE even a certain Lieutenant!! (is Angel a1st or 2nd lieutenant?) :D
Was that a comedy button joke? Also completely wrong thread.

[uuhhhuuu]

Was that a comedy button joke? Also completely wrong thread.

srry. wrong thread lol.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I've been rethinking my survival strat and realized that I'd need someone who knows how do drive and work heavy equipment. At the very least, I think I'll find a way to learn myself.

There are 3..wait, 4 places within 3 miles of me that have bulldozers, dumptrucks, backhoes and whatnot that would go a long way to helping me and mine survive. One place that sells motor oil and liquid oxygen. Yow!

What would be the best group size? I think 10 is about it for me, 20 at the very very max. If you lived in a compound environment, how would you handle crimes that are committed? No matter what, human nature kicks in. Imagine dealing with a group of Kelly's (like she was when she first arrived in the tower) and how you, as a leader would deal with that.

Solar power would be a MUST!!

I also realized that we'd be able to live fairly well by simply fishing in all the canals around Miami. Hell, i've seen fish in the lake/pond in my complex that are pushing 2 feet long. Fishing is one thing i'd never really considered before and its been sitting in front of me for 4 years now. LOL.
The ducks down here are the size of geese and easily domesticated. Yum.

So, when TSHTF and you can make it to Miami.. make it to Ronald Reagan HS and tell the gate guards "it's all in the reflexes"

Crowbar out!

[yarri]

I've been rethinking my survival strat and realized that I'd need someone who knows how do drive and work heavy equipment. At the very least, I think I'll find a way to learn myself.

There are 3..wait, 4 places within 3 miles of me that have bulldozers, dumptrucks, backhoes and whatnot that would go a long way to helping me and mine survive. One place that sells motor oil and liquid oxygen. Yow!

What would be the best group size? I think 10 is about it for me, 20 at the very very max. If you lived in a compound environment, how would you handle crimes that are committed? No matter what, human nature kicks in. Imagine dealing with a group of Kelly's (like she was when she first arrived in the tower) and how you, as a leader would deal with that.

Solar power would be a MUST!!

I also realized that we'd be able to live fairly well by simply fishing in all the canals around Miami. Hell, i've seen fish in the lake/pond in my complex that are pushing 2 feet long. Fishing is one thing i'd never really considered before and its been sitting in front of me for 4 years now. LOL.
The ducks down here are the size of geese and easily domesticated. Yum.



So, when TSHTF and you can make it to Miami.. make it to Ronald Reagan HS and tell the gate guards "it's all in the reflexes"

Crowbar out!


Crow, meet USMC Cpl Zombie Killer... aka Cowboy. Cowboy drives large 18 wheel trucks for a living and has a very odd set of skills.. I think you would be good friends..

~Yarri

[Osiris]

I have developed Plan B:



Eat Cheetos and watch.

[Litmaster]

Steal a private yacht and hit the high seas... why do more people not think of this? It's pretty hard to get bit by a zombie when he's 7 fathoms deep...

Then just a small crew and conducting several small, targeted shore raids for supplies. Most goods are transported via ports anyway, right?

[Solanine]

You would first have to secure places to refuel, make sure you were going to find enough food each time you stopped at shore to last for months and a crap ton of other things.
A boat is not a good place to start a new life. Its a good short term solution but try producing your own power/ food on a boat. But you have got one bit right, water is the best defence. I've said it once and I'll say it again ISLANDS! Once you've cleared them they're a brilliant safe haven. If I can get with a big enough group my plan after the proverbial turd hits the fan is to head out to one of the many small islands around mainland britain. Preferably one that has a low population and is rural enough to begin farming.

[Reneen]

I have developed Plan B:



Eat Cheetos and watch.

This is pretty much my plan too. Reasons why I would die quickly in a zombie outbreak:

1. I don't own a gun, I've never used a gun and I don't even know where to get a gun.
2. I feel strongly against stealing, to the point that I would probably only eventually start looting when everything has been emptied out already.
3. I am incredibly lazy. Fortify this door? I think not, I'll go watch a movie instead!
4. I am ridiculously naive. "Hello sir, sure come on in. Nice pin striped sui....AAAGH!!!!"

[Osiris]

This is pretty much my plan too. Reasons why I would die quickly in a zombie outbreak:

1. I don't own a gun, I've never used a gun and I don't even know where to get a gun.
2. I feel strongly against stealing, to the point that I would probably only eventually start looting when everything has been emptied out already.
3. I am incredibly lazy. Fortify this door? I think not, I'll go watch a movie instead!
4. I am ridiculously naive. "Hello sir, sure come on in. Nice pin striped sui....AAAGH!!!!"

Solid plan, sir.

[reaper239]

This is pretty much my plan too. Reasons why I would die quickly in a zombie outbreak:

1. I don't own a gun, I've never used a gun and I don't even know where to get a gun.
2. I feel strongly against stealing, to the point that I would probably only eventually start looting when everything has been emptied out already.
3. I am incredibly lazy. Fortify this door? I think not, I'll go watch a movie instead!
4. I am ridiculously naive. "Hello sir, sure come on in. Nice pin striped sui....AAAGH!!!!"

if you lived in the US. i'd say walmart.

[Solanine]

Too be honest Europe is completely and royally F*****. Britain's only chance is to close off all airports and harbours and barricade the Chunnel. Relocate the government and hope for the best.
Maybe the government could maintain a healthy population by requisitioning Jersey and using the military to convert it into a agriculturally centre then move a maintainable population out their some of the brits could survive but I don't know. Maybe with enough time they could start compulsory service back up. Make BioHazard suits compulsory to soldiers coming into direct contact with civilians. Even with all the buts and maybe's we'd just get taken down by another surviving country. Ah well we made a tradition of submitting to aggressors before the Normans i guess we could do it again

[reaper239]

I've been rethinking my survival strat and realized that I'd need someone who knows how do drive and work heavy equipment. At the very least, I think I'll find a way to learn myself.

There are 3..wait, 4 places within 3 miles of me that have bulldozers, dumptrucks, backhoes and whatnot that would go a long way to helping me and mine survive. One place that sells motor oil and liquid oxygen. Yow!

What would be the best group size? I think 10 is about it for me, 20 at the very very max. If you lived in a compound environment, how would you handle crimes that are committed? No matter what, human nature kicks in. Imagine dealing with a group of Kelly's (like she was when she first arrived in the tower) and how you, as a leader would deal with that.

Solar power would be a MUST!!

I also realized that we'd be able to live fairly well by simply fishing in all the canals around Miami. Hell, i've seen fish in the lake/pond in my complex that are pushing 2 feet long. Fishing is one thing i'd never really considered before and its been sitting in front of me for 4 years now. LOL.
The ducks down here are the size of geese and easily domesticated. Yum.

So, when TSHTF and you can make it to Miami.. make it to Ronald Reagan HS and tell the gate guards "it's all in the reflexes"

Crowbar out!

i disagree, as long as your core agree to set standards and everyone else who joins you after that must agree to the same, it would be a fairly simple matter to maintain order. here is my plan for forming a colony:

Free and honest men, as is their tendency to do, will come together in the aide of one another in times of need and crisis. For their common defense, free and honest men will seek to reside near each other and to supply each other with resources to aide in their common survival. Men such as these will not seek wrong each other out of spite, yet disagreements will arise among them as they are imperfect men in an imperfect world. Not all men are free and honest as some are bound to sin and deceitful, and so it is for these reasons that we come together to ratify these standards for living peaceably amongst each other, and do affirm that all those who seek shelter amongst us shall abide the same.



Structure
The people shall come together as free men and women and shall decide together the fate of the colony, every man and woman, over the age of 16, having the right to vote and to affect the future of the colony. Every member of the colony shall also, at any time required by the needs of the colony, contribute to the collected defense of the colony.
Once the colony reaches a population of no more than 60, the colony shall organize into neighborhoods of no less than 20 and no more than 39 people, decided by locale, and the free grouping of free people.

Each neighborhood shall elect one (1) individual to represent them in the Congress of the Colony (hereafter referred to as The Congress or simply Congress) in all matters affecting the whole of the colony. This representative shall attend The Congress to present the will of the people in his neighborhood and shall, upon recess of that Congress, report back to his neighborhood to inform the people of updates and decisions regarding the progress of The Congress, and shall continue in this manner until the conclusion of The Congress. A new election shall be held at the conclusion of every congress for each representative, and no man or woman shall be elected to that position more than two times in a row, nor serve as any more than every fifth representative.
The Congress shall convene on the first day of every month to ensure that the business of the colony is managed properly and proceeds unimpeded. They will serve one day in session to present all business to be discussed at that Congress, and then recess for two days to present the business to the Citizens of their respective neighborhoods. On the fourth day they shall reconvene and shall each present the response of their neighborhoods to each article of business, except in the event that any of the neighborhoods have not reached a consensus on the business at hand, at which point a further day of recess shall be granted, not exceeding three (3) days. The Congress shall then have three (3) days to conclude business. The duties of The Congress shall be enumerated further in this document.


Once the colony has attained a size requiring the formation of twelve (12) neighborhoods, the colony shall be further divided into districts, each comprised of three to five (3-5) neighborhoods.

Each neighborhood shall elect one (1) representative to manage the affairs of the neighborhood through service in the District Council (hereafter referred to as The Council or simply Council). The Council will operate in much the same manner as does The Congress, and their duties shall be listed further in this document.
Each District shall elect one (1) representative to serve in The Congress which shall operate the same as prior except that there will be an extra day for initial recess as the Congressmen reports to the Councilors and they report to the people.
Each neighborhood shall elect one Lawman who shall serve with the other Lawmen from the district to keep order and apprehend criminals. The term each Lawman shall serve is to be one quarter of the year, with the year beginning on January first, and no member of the colony is to serve more than one term as a Lawman in any given year. The duties and power of the Lawmen shall be enumerated further in this document.
The Congress shall, from this point forward meet every other month and the election for Congressman shall be held in the second month of a congressional convention for the next cycle. In the event a special session is required for emergency business, the congress of the current cycle shall convene.


Once the colony has reached a size requiring the formation of twelve (12) Districts, the colony will be further organized into regions consisting of no less than three (3) and no more than five (5) districts.

Each neighborhood shall elect one (1) representative to serve on The Council.
Each District shall elect one (1) representative to serve on the Regional Assembly (hereafter referred to as The Assembly). The Assembly shall operate in the same fashion as The Congress and meet every other month, with elections being held in the second month of the cycle. In addition to convening on the first day of each new cycle, The Assembly shall also convene when The Congress convenes. The congressmen shall return to their regions and relay the business of the colony to the members of The Assembly. The Assemblymen shall then relay that business to their district Councilors and once they have delivered a verdict to the congressman they shall conclude the Assembly.
Each Region shall elect a representative to serve in The Congress. The Congress shall be granted one extra day of initial recess, and shall meet in the first month of each quarter year, with the year beginning on January first, and elections shall be held in the third month of the congressional cycle.
Each neighborhood shall elect one Lawman who shall serve with the other Lawmen from the district to keep order and apprehend criminals.
Each District shall elect a Sheriff to coordinate the efforts of the Lawmen in their District and to cooperate across the Region. The term a Sheriff shall serve is one quarter of the year, with the year beginning on January first, and no member of the colony shall serve more than one term as either a Sheriff or a Lawman in any given year. The Duties of the Sheriff shall be enumerated further in this document.


Once the colony has reached a size requiring the formation of twelve (12) regions, the colony will split evenly, forming two fully functioning and self governing colonies. The colonies are then free to dissolve ties with each other or, in the spirit of this document, to band together and establish a higher form of government, preferably modeled after the Constitution of the United States of America, and work together for the betterment of their citizens, and the betterment of humanity as a whole.
Duties of Elected Officials

Congress

To settle disputes between the highest orders of organization (neighborhoods, districts, regions, respectively).
To manage the dealings of the colony with outsiders who do not wish to join (ie, trade with other colonies, raiders, etc).
To prosecute crimes that occur between the highest orders of organization (ie, a man from one region kills a man from another)
To prosecute appeals from the highest order of organization.
To prosecute crimes against the colony
To protect the rights of the citizens. The purpose of law is the defense of personal liberty, not the rectification of social injustice. To that end, The Congress shall pass no law constraining the personal liberties of the Citizens of the colony, and shall only have the power to pass laws respecting the rights of the Citizens.
To set and standardize the weights and measures.


Council

To settle disputes between neighborhoods.
To manage the dealings of the district with other districts.
To prosecute inter-neighborhood crimes.
To prosecute Felonies.
To manage the standard operation of the markets in their district.


Assembly

To settle disputes between districts.
To manage the dealings of one region with another.
To prosecute inter-district crimes.
To prosecute appeals from the council level.


Representative notes

Councilors, Assemblymen, and Congressmen shall be compensated one days wage for every day in session. They shall serve the people from whence they come during the session and then return to their homes to continue in their business and earn their living as amongst free and honest men.
A days wage shall be determined as what is likely to be required for sustenance and healthy maintenance of a single and averaged sized adult, and as the average of ammunition and supplies to be expended throughout the day.


Lawman

To conduct regular watches throughout his neighborhood and to organize a volunteer peace force to maintain watch.
To apprehend for trial violators of the common law of the colony.
The Lawman shall, when pursuing a suspect, have the power and authority to assemble a posse to assist with the apprehension.


Sheriff

To coordinate the efforts of the Lawmen under his jurisdiction.
To pursue and apprehend, with the aid of the Lawmen, fugitives fleeing from one neighborhood to another.
To transport suspects to trial and to transport convicts to have their sentence carried out.
To facilitate the release of acquitted persons.


Peace Force notes

The Sheriffs and Lawmen shall be compensated with one days wages for each day of service.
The offices of Sheriff and Lawman shall be issued some type of long rifle or shotgun for duty services as available.
Volunteers for the Peace Force watch shall provide their own weapons, but shall be provided with two (2) loads of ammunition for the duration of their watch, to be returned to the Peace Force armory if not used.
The constituency of the elected officer shall develop a defining uniform which shall be issued to each person holding that office.
All citizens can, if witnessing a crime, detain the offender.



Common Laws

The purpose of law, as stated previously in this document, is to defend personal liberties, not to rectify perceived social injustice. As such the only true law is common law, that which is naturally evident through observation in the world and behaviors around us. We find that the laws common to all man can best be enumerated through the inalienable rights endowed to us by our creator, and that among these are the rights to Life, Liberty, and Property.

The right to Life encompasses many aspects of the common law. We have the right to live and so are guaranteed through common law a freedom from unwarranted attack, whether intended as lethal or non-lethal, a right to defend ourselves against such an unwarranted attack with lethal force, and a freedom to earn a living through any means we see fit, so long as that means does not violate the rights of another.
The right to Liberty guarantees us freedom in activity. No one may inhibit the activities of another that does not violate the rights of any.
The right to Property guarantees that every man is entitled his possessions and no others, and shall remain in possession of his belongings until such time as he should decide to part with it. People are not property


While all men have certain rights residing within the colony is a privilege. As such all persons over the age of 16 have certain responsibilities.

All men and women have a responsibility to contribute to the defense of the colony. To that end, all persons over the age of 16 are required to own and maintain a firearm within the colony and to keep it with them at all times.
Every man shall keep regular training with his arms and shall, when available, be afforded two loads of ammunition for his weapon on every second month with which to train.
All persons have a responsibility to provide for themselves. Every able bodied man and woman over the age of 16 shall work, either farming, maintenance, scavenging, or some other job for which they may collect their wage of their own accord, or trade their service for a wage to be bartered between the two parties of the transaction.
For the privilege of residing in the colony, all members of the colony will be taxed by three quarters of one days wage at the beginning of every week, with any and all excess to be stored as a colony stockpile. The elected officials may not vote to increase this tax.
The Citizens of the colony have the authority to vote to trade supplies from the colony stockpile for other types of supplies and equipment that may be of use to the colony. Trade may only be initiated once enough of the stockpile has been set aside to ensure that the elected officials are compensated as intended. The elected officials may not vote to initiate trade without the approval of their constituency.
Once in every third month, stockpile permitting, the colony may elect to distribute three quarters of the stockpile back to the Citizens of the colony.
Every man and woman, over the age of 16, shall, for the duration of their stay in the colony, be assigned a regular shift to keep watch on and about the exterior of the colony, in order that, in the event of attack, an alarm may be raised in a timely manner.


The individuals elected to government are not special citizens and are in fact merely avatars to the will of the people. To that end there are limits to the power a government may wield over its people.

The government may not alter this document, except through a ballot vote amongst the populace for which they receive two thirds approval to move forward with the selected alteration.
As every man is a member of the militia defending the colony, no standing army may be raised as all defensive needs have been met through the militia.
The government may not, in any way, limit where arms may be borne, nor in what fashion, nor which arms. The right to bear arms is absolute.
The government may not levy any taxes on its citizens, other than what has already been established in this document. The government may also not tax goods coming in or out of the city.
The government may not initiate dealings with outsiders without approval from the people in the form of a simple majority.
The government may not pass any rule or regulation that in any way limits the freedoms of the individuals, except where expressly stated above.



This document is the framework we shall use for maintaining order, peace, and civility in the colony, and maintaining a safe environment. Following are the people who have read and agreed to this document and the rules set forth therein. Violation of this document may result in expulsion from the colony, and the signature of the violator following this document removes any question of knowledge from the proceedings.


ok, so the numbring didn't transfer exactly the way it was in word, but i think you can get the general idea. it's not perfect, but it's something. also, it only applies to a colony, alliances between colonies aren't covered and would equire a slightly different framework. i had fun writing this up, enjoy.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi.

@Reaper: Your rules-catalogue is a bit "vague, don't you think"? *just kidding*

@topic:

Q1: If all hell broke loose right now, what would you do?

I would take my camping stuff, food- and water-supplies, medical stuff, my family as well as our pets up to the roof, which can be disconnected from the rest of the house via a retrectable ladder and a trapdoor. There we would remain for the next few days and observe the happening around our house.

Q2: In which we share our perfect survival plan.
Step 1: Collect as much supplies from the cellar and storage, collect as much drinking water as possible, important ID-documents, set up kind of a 'base' as described in Q1.
Step 2.1: Start getting used to living without relying on ressources like electricity, drinking water, and gas for the stove or oven; these ressources will either be depleted soon (water, gas) or fail due to malfunctioning (electricity, broadcasting, radio-/ cellular-communication).
Step 2.2: Observe the outside with regards to Zombies, survivars, scavengers/ looters, police/ military while keeping a very low profile in general.
Step 3: After the first days, when the first wave has ebbed down, it really depends on what the situation looks like. I live in a medium-sized village. Therefore I would guess that there will be some more survivors, which is why it could be a good idea to 'recreate' the village by establishing some kind of fortification. I would avoid any town or city, since it is to be expected that Zombies will accumulate there in huge numbers. Considering moving away from my 'home base' I would move to somewhere lightly populated in order to get in touch with people. In any case I would try to get a generator for electricity, a solid radio- and/ or sat-communication device, and I would try to get in touch with people.

All this would only work, if I am aware of what is going to happen. But if not ... Well, another one bites the dust, right?

All the best!
Liam

[reaper239]

Hi.

@Reaper: Your rules-catalogue is a bit "vague, don't you think"? *just kidding*



yeah, tell me about it. ;) nah, it's more about what you can do: you can do anything, that doesn' violate the rights of others. for the privelige of living in the colony, you also have certain responsibilities, which are enumerated. i also wrote it in a late middle english style, because that seemed like fun at the tyme. i like writing creative stuff.

[LiamKerrington]

yeah, tell me about it. ;) nah, it's more about what you can do: you can do anything, that doesn' violate the rights of others. for the privelige of living in the colony, you also have certain responsibilities, which are enumerated. i also wrote it in a late middle english style, because that seemed like fun at the tyme. i like writing creative stuff.

Hi there.

No, really. It's a pretty cool catalogue of rules and principles. I just wuoted Kelly on the first four rules established by Michael. ;)

All the best!
Liam

[Solanine]

TLDR. I joke. So while this is a good plan I'm not sure all citizens having a fire arm is a good thing. To prevent civil unrest escalating into civil war it may be better to award guns only to those...

[reaper239]

the problem is that everyone is responsible for defense, there are no designated guards who's only job is to pull duty, everyone rotates out. besides, we here in america have lots of guns and, aside...

[Solanine]

the problem is that everyone is responsible for defense, there are no designated guards who's only job is to pull duty, everyone rotates out. besides, we here in america have lots of guns and, aside from major differences on civil rights which led to the civil war, we haven't had anything major here. also, there's some truth to the old adage "an armed society is a polite society," the only places here in the US that we've had major rioting and civil unrest is in cities where guns have been heavily regulated. plus, are you going to try and rob your fellow survivors if you know for a fact they all have guns?

the reason for doing a system like that is to try to keep small communities where people know each other and care about each other. they would get lots of practice running things as a community from the lowest levels of government and then, no matter hw high things go, they will still operate as a small community. what's going to be a harder place to break open: the place with 120 people milling around who don't know each other too well, or the place made up of 6 tight knit communities working in concert together, where the people are invested in each other and willing to stand up and fight for one another?

regarding war, there should be no real need to go to war. if the colony reaches the point where it would be feasible to raise an army to wage war, there won't likely be any people with the strength to take them on. in pretty much every other situation the colonies prime focus should be self defense. if, at some point, it should become necessary to go to war, i imagine it would just be volunteers going off to remove a threat to the colony.

Crowd sourcing of defence would be less effective than guards trained for discipline. The reason for gun control is quite simple, take the DKR shooting. That happened with only the stresses of normal life in a first world country. The extra stress of seeing so many people die/blaming people for the deaths of loved ones could easily lead to shootings and makes it easy for one individual to take control turning the place into a dictatorship. As far as war goes I'm not talking full scale war, only the maller-tower type situation. Does the government have the authority to force the citizens into service for their own defence?
Does war have to be announced via a referendum?
The tight knitted community thing is a bloody good idea, my only fault is the community's then are suspicious of outside communities even with an alliance. When gun control is not existent and the communities get paranoid things could easily get out of hand.

[reaper239]

Crowd sourcing of defence would be less effective than guards trained for discipline. The reason for gun control is quite simple, take the DKR shooting. That happened with only the stresses of normal life in a first world country. The extra stress of seeing so many people die/blaming people for the deaths of loved ones could easily lead to shootings and makes it easy for one individual to take control turning the place into a dictatorship. As far as war goes I'm not talking full scale war, only the maller-tower type situation. Does the government have the authority to force the citizens into service for their own defence?
Does war have to be announced via a referendum?
The tight knitted community thing is a bloody good idea, my only fault is the community's then are suspicious of outside communities even with an alliance. When gun control is not existent and the communities get paranoid things could easily get out of hand.


the argument against gun control is: what stops a deranged gunman? a law abiding citizen with a gun. the only way to stop a madman is through countervailing force. that's why that guy in norway was able to kill 87 people, because there was no one there to stop him. most shootings in the US happen in "gun free" zones (oh the irony) and those that happen elsewhere don't make it off the ground because law abiding citizens with guns are able to put a stop to it.

in the event of attack, everyone would go to their predetermined battle stations for lack of better term and would be responsible for the community's defense. also, a dictator wouldn't be able to take control because everyone has a gun.

as far as the tight knit community thing goes, all the people would work together. it's just like a neighborhood in any city, you have your neighbors, and in a great neighborhood, you develop a bond with them that makes you into a community, they are your friends, but you work in the city, so you have friends there too. the communities would form that bond as neighbors, but they would bond with others through other activities.

i understand your feelings on guns, guns are weapons designed to kill, but by themselves they do no harm, nor good. guns are not the problem, people are the problem. if you ever go to texas, the people there are some of the nicest in the world, not because of guns, but because a culture that cherishes the right to self defense and self preservation tends to be one in which people who care about others can feel secure enough in their personal defense to act upon their feelings. instead of citizens being afraid of criminals, criminals are afraid of citizens and that allows the law abiding to flourish. there will always be unstable people who commit egregious acts in the name of their insanity, but europes shootings, despite massive gun control common in most european nations, are far worse than anything in the US.

[Solanine]

A dictator could take control because of everybody having a gun. Him and his supporters just have to murder the leaders and BAM! Chaos. Who unites the colony? The dictator.
Pre determined battle stations is great but if you already have people manning the perimeter eg the guardians you have greater warning + a well trained force to repel at least the first few waves.
By that time the citizens are armed with more substantial fire arms than the handguns I suggested were allowed for defence of ones person.
As usual you see the best in people Reaper, which is by no means a fault. But especially when your survival is on the line people tend to be paranoid, territorial etc.
What happens the first time a community who is hard pushed for food strays into a neighbouring communities foraging grounds and gets caught?
Within the communities bonds would be strong as seen in the tower but I'm talking inter-community disputes and conflicts.
As far as Europe's shootings go I can't think of a Major one in Britain since Raoul Moat. And that was three people killed. Just as a comparison in America there were 8775 murders using firearms (2011). The total for the UK in 2006? 49. When you even out our populations (Britain is about a sixth of your population) Britain is 294 killings to your 8775. Other European countries cannot be lumped together as each one has slightly different firearms policies. Anyway, this is not a firearms thread although if you want to start that discussion hit me up! I can't comment as to the people of texas as I haven't ever been there.

[reaper239]

there are no "leaders" per se, the representatives don't make the decisions, they relay the will of the people and the majority rules. they wouldn't be disparate communities of people walled off from...

[Leedo2502]

I'm with the dictator idea. People are notoriously short sighted and vote themselves into comfort and an easy life every chance they get.

In a non-crisis situation a total democracy is a horrible idea, in a crisis it'd end up being a suicide pact.

[Solanine]

No leaders sounds like a very easy way to create in-efficiency etc. Possibly the population should vote on a leader with elections every six months (as a start). For major issues eg changes to the...

[usmcludwig]

At this current time- I'd probably just die

Knuckles are bloody- guns are away, food is low, dehydration at near 80%

Boned.

[stat]

Let's think the hospital scenario through given what we've seen in We're Alive.

During Phase One of a zombie apocalypse you can expect the hospitals to get over run quickly and early. No matter how, or where the outbreak occurs, some of the infected are going to end up being transported to the hospital, where they are going to turn and spread the infection. The first wave of zombies, whether they come in through the doors or they come out of the emergency room, will over run the hospital and in short order it is going to be picked clean of human prey. The key to survival during this phase is to find a good place to hide and secure yourself. I'd suggest locking yourself in the most secure room you can find (radiology labs, store rooms, etc.) and douse the approaches with alcohol to hide your scent.

In Phase Two you can expect most of the zombies to leave in search of places where there is still prey. We saw this We're Alive at The Tower, and The Other Tower, where all but a handful of zombie hangers-on were gone by the time survivors searched the locations. Even Cain Memorial Hospital seemed to be occupied by just a handful of lurkers and malingerers up to the point that the zombie army arrived, presumably from the Stadium. This would be the time to search the hospital to gather supplies, look for other survivors and make your plans. Just be sure to arm yourself to deal with the lurkers!
For what it's worth, you might check home health care agencies during Phase One. Home healthcare workers (RNs, CNAs, etc.) get most of their supplies through the agency, which bills the patient's insurance or the patient him/herself directly. From there, you could take everything from gauze and hydrogen peroxide solution to morphine and saline bags (depending on what the agency has at the time of the attack.) They would have less than a hospital, but there should be enough dressings and such to last you through the initial wave. And unlike a hospital, most of the workers will probably abandon the offices asap. They usually aren't a great place to hide though. Many of them are just offices in strip malls or larger buildings.
Another good place to check would be a skilled care facility (as opposed to a retirement home, which probably won't have a lot of medications or dressings.) Most of the people in that facility are going to be physically impaired. So you could probably defeat them easily even if they are zombies. They will have a lot of pain medications, dressings for wounds, antibiotics and antibiotic creams, as well as blankets, sheets, and other stuff you'll need for daily life. Skilled care facilities for patients with Alzheimer's aren't a bad place to hide out, after you've secured them. They often have fences around them, not many windows that face out, and a central courtyard of some kind. They wouldn't be perfect but they could do in a pinch.

I don't know where else to propose this, so I'll do it here: I would try taking Rifampin or Sulfasalazine because both can change the color of your sweat. This might alter the smell enough to put the zombies off their meal as well.

[Witch_Doctor]

It's not looking good for me. A co-worker and I were comparing items that we have in our bug-out bags. I told him I plan to rebuild civilization. His response, "Please don't tell me you have a bug-out bag full of books."
Well, not only books. I have an ample supply of ketchup and Taco Bell sauce packets.

Also, this morning as I was getting out of bed, my wife was waiting for me outside to the bedroom door. When I opened the door she stood in the door way and said, "Woowoowoo...." To defend myself I made some Wizard of Oz Cowardly Lion-like pawing motions in the air.

I guess those packets of ketchup and taco sauce will make the rest of y'all taste better as I can see now which team I'll be on.

[Witch_Doctor]

I don't know where else to propose this, so I'll do it here: I would try taking Rifampin or Sulfasalazine because both can change the color of your sweat. This might alter the smell enough to put the zombies off their meal as well.

I came across some Human Scent removal soap in a sporting goods store's hunting section. Does this work to mask a person's scent?

[Solanine]

Hmmm, comes back to Bill Murrays survival plan from Zombie Land, act like them and they'll leave you alone.
Although I really don't feel like smelling that way. Angel and Riley didn't seem to take to it.

[Blues_127]

The conversation seems to have progressed, but my first priority would be to get out of my home. Not very Zombie proof. In that home though I have a nice collection of firearms, however, and I would arm my family (they would likely arm themselves as my son has his two rifles in his room and my wife keeps her own shot gun & .38), grab our bug out bags, and head to the desert (behind my house). Thinking lack of zombie food and clear fields of fire would be a good thing. From there, I would link with my dad a few miles away over the desert hills (who is a prepper) and see what he's got going on. :rolleyes:

Having gone through hurricanes, floods and earth quakes. I'd like to believe for the most part people would come togethor. In the initial shock of traumatic events everyone would probably be pretty wide eyed not knowing what to do. In the first days it would be a task to just keep everyone alive that you can. Then you could work to seek tools & items and people with specific skills etc.

In the debate between an armed society or not, democracy vs. dictator - look to our ancestors; in most situations where there is little central government and frontier style living there is no question - you are either armed, starving, or dead. All citizens being armed is not a bad thing and would not pre-dispose a dictator. Human Nature & the need for immediate decisive decisions, I think, would decide this for us.

[reaper239]

woah, i gotta bump this, it was like, on the third page or some nonsense like that. post up mi hombres

[Cabbage Patch]

Another good place to check would be a skilled care facility (as opposed to a retirement home, which probably won't have a lot of medications or dressings.) Most of the people in that facility are going to be physically impaired. So you could probably defeat them easily even if they are zombies. They will have a lot of pain medications, dressings for wounds, antibiotics and antibiotic creams, as well as blankets, sheets, and other stuff you'll need for daily life. Skilled care facilities for patients with Alzheimer's aren't a bad place to hide out, after you've secured them. They often have fences around them, not many windows that face out, and a central courtyard of some kind. They wouldn't be perfect but they could do in a pinch.

Excellent points! There are some additional advantages to raiding, or even setting up base in skilled nursing facilities. Here in California they all have emergency food and water supplies (one week's worth for residents and staff) and they are increasingly using shelf-stable packaged food and water storage products to meet this requirement (http://www.hmcomposite.com/nutricopiaweb/meals_for_all.html). They also have backup generators that, unlike hospitals, don't come on automatically when the electrical grid goes down, so they won't necessarily be out of fuel when you find them. So as long as the building isn't damaged you could expect decent pickings months, even years after the WA zombie apocalypse.

[scbubba]

The conversation seems to have progressed, but my first priority would be to get out of my home. Not very Zombie proof. In that home though I have a nice collection of firearms, however, and I would arm my family (they would likely arm themselves as my son has his two rifles in his room and my wife keeps her own shot gun & .38), grab our bug out bags, and head to the desert (behind my house). Thinking lack of zombie food and clear fields of fire would be a good thing. From there, I would link with my dad a few miles away over the desert hills (who is a prepper) and see what he's got going on. :rolleyes:

Having gone through hurricanes, floods and earth quakes. I'd like to believe for the most part people would come togethor. In the initial shock of traumatic events everyone would probably be pretty wide eyed not knowing what to do. In the first days it would be a task to just keep everyone alive that you can. Then you could work to seek tools & items and people with specific skills etc.

In the debate between an armed society or not, democracy vs. dictator - look to our ancestors; in most situations where there is little central government and frontier style living there is no question - you are either armed, starving, or dead. All citizens being armed is not a bad thing and would not pre-dispose a dictator. Human Nature & the need for immediate decisive decisions, I think, would decide this for us.

Good stuff! One thing to note on major catastrophes like hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, there is often a "quiet aftermath" in which the immediate danger has passed and folks are trying to figure out what's left, what's gone, what to do. It's bad and can be made worse in situations like that after Katrina along the Gulf coast of the US.

Now, add to all that being hunted by a predatory force. Nothing brings a group together like having a common enemy and common goal. I feel like the majority of the folks that survived the first wave (in the US at least) would be folks that were less likely to have a dictatorial leader come from their midst.

And, as Blues_127 says, "All citizens being armed is not a bad thing a would not pre-dispose a dictator." Harder to "take over" an armed society....

[Ordinary12]

I live in the "Deep South" so I feel I'm already in a great location for self defense when the Zombie Apocalypse occurs. Guns are still a way of life here...they act as an early morning alarm for me every Saturday morning when the back door hunters take cheap shots as passing deer. LOL!!! The south is full of farmers...professional and backyard experimenters. And there's always a pond or creek near by for a source of water. We don't have any massive compounds to keep people out but we no shortages on weapons and ammunition.

I already have a good supply of storable food and ammunition to wait out the initial attack but I don't plan on spending much time inside my house because I want to be actively hunting the zombies down and slaying them while other people start building strong walls around there communities to keep them out. I'm blessed to live right beside some National Guard guys so I would immediate throw-in with them and create a militarized zone. I've already walked my neighborhood several times looking for different sniper positions and bunker placements. For me...its not a matter of if something happens but when it happens.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Well, I've moved from Miami to San Antonio and I have to say that if the SHTF here..... I'm screwed. I35 is a nightmare M-F 0600 to at least late evening. You are NOT going anywhere if you plan to get out.

So what is my plan? Hell if I know! I'd just block off my street and die slowly. LOL.

[Grognaurd]

Turtle in place, then move out after the collapse.

[Solanine]

Huh, I was under the impression you had already died slowly. Or at least were dead to the forums.
I guess I was wrong.
So I also am moving home. I shall write a little updated plan for the amusement of my fellow forum members once i've got settled in.

[REZombie]

this is what i posted on another thread

If Z-Day happened, would I be ready? A question i have asked myself many, many times.

If the day comes, i hope the answer is yes. But its hard to be prepared for everything, when it all depends on HOW it starts. Luckily i live in a small town, and the closest big-ish town to me is Winston-Salem, NC...not very likely for a viral attack here, so i should have at least a day to prepare before it spreads to me. If it happens to be cause by a supernatural force, and takes place simultaneously across the country/world its a little different, and my initial survival would be left to chance as to how it all comes to be.

However, i do have plans for everywhere i go. Just in case i have a chance at survival, i want to be able to take it. For example, here are a few of my plans below.

Home Plan: First my weapons... rifles, handguns, shotguns, blades and bows. I have enough ammo(3,000-4,000 rds) for my higher powered weapons to fight with while securing my stronghold. I also have an additional 10,000+/- rds for .22lr and around 150 arrows. The good thing about a .22lr, is it will pierce skull bone out to 200+ yards and is highly accurate out to 150+ yards without a lot of bullet drop. So for zombies, once you have a location secured, its the perfect defense weapon because you can carry so much more ammo and pick them off from a distance, and its fairly quiet. I dont like it for fighting though. The .22lr round is not the most reliable in semi-auto, so i would rather use something larger with more reliability. The bow would be great for food runs, or anytime you need to take out 1 or 2 without noise. Blades, i'm not a fan of unless its a last resort. Too much blood, chance of cutting ones self with blade, and they get stuck in bone REALLY easy. It also helps that i'm a gunsmith, and can reload ammo and repair our firearms as needed.

For my place to live, i'm lucky enough to own 18ac with 3 houses.. Mostly woods around us, lots of big oaks and poplars. Soon as able, trees will be cut and over lapped to form a temporary blockade around the main property, until supplies can be found to build a fence. Enough room to house up to 15 people, raise livestock, plant gardens, and there are two wells and two springs on the property that could be dammed up to provide water for the gardens, livestock and stocking with fish. Also have 3 10,000w generators, and a decent backstock of fuel and access to a in ground fuel storage should i acquire a fuel truck.

Food and water, i don't really keep a big stock of.. I maybe have enough canned goods and MRE's to last 5 people for a couple weeks. Very little water stocked, but lots of wells and springs around here, and plenty of water filtration. I have hunted all my life, and fished, plus my neighbor has 11 cows, and i have goats and chickens. We have a 2ac garden we plant every year, and i know how to cure meat and can stuff.

Medical, i have covered for the most part. I have a good supply of basic pain/cold meds, first aid meds, a few military issue field surgery/trauma kits and my wife is an herbalist. We also have 5 pharmacies in our little town.

I think that is a good summery of my home plan.

Work Plan: If at work when it goes down, since i work in a gun department, i have plenty of firepower. The hard part will be getting to my house... assuming i cannot and have to stay.. Its not a bad location. I work in a sporting goods store, so we have alot of useful things in the gun/hunting/camping departments. We also have several restaurants, home improvement stores and a mall near by, so lots of places for supply runs. once secured, we have 3 hotels within a half mile that would be PERFECT to house many survivors, and an army reserve vehicle lot near by packed with humvee's, jeeps, armored fuel haulers and transport trucks . My overall plan is similar to WA's tower...

[Sin Angel]

Forest things first... I would cheer, then figure out a plan with my brother and sister. Probably kill off a few peeps and gather up who I want. Find a good place and such, and begin to start my plans.

[alexcadtek]

I would get my weapons, Tools put them in my SUV, throw all the food in my trailer and go to the mountains. I live in california and where I live there is mountains all around and big rivers, lakes and tons of agriculture so I can come down from the mountains into the city when I want or stay in the outskirts were all the agriculture is at. I would head to where it is secluded enough from people that I dont know, and just bring family & friends. I could hunt up there and build a shelter of some sort. Also there is tons of cabins up here. another thing is I would bring my mp3 becasue of course I have to listen to my We're Alive well I am up there chillin!

[Burgerbros]

I would head to a apartment building in downtown Lawrence, Kansas. Since its downtown I would have food for a couple of weeks. After that I would head to Fort Leavenworth. Hopefully the Army would have stayed and held the base.

[aids]

I live outside of town so I probly wouldn't even know about an outbreak until I saw the news or the lack of news(no one left to report)but that's a good thing right? I have 130 acres that is fence in but its used for livestock so idk how that will hold up against zombies id have to leave sooner or later and I prefer sooner theres a few firearms in the house as well and plenty of melee weapons but not enough to last any real amount of time id have to head into town and I'd prefer to deal with the chaos then have to pick threw what everyone left behind and to hopefully find some friends and family who aren't zombified another reason time is key once I get the people I need first stop are the pawn shops they are always full of guns of different kinds and idk if they're supposed to sell ammo but I've see some they keep in the back after that id hit the fast food places they would likely be abandoned(minmun wage ain't that good lol) and if i went to all of them the bottled there would be enough to last me and the handful of others for a maaaaaybe a week then head to the national guard depot and get all the mre's they got now we are all supplied up id head to the court house it only has one main entrance that could be heavily fortified the only other doors are thick metal with automatic locks you need a key card or have to be buzzed in its also connected to the jail/police station threw numerous locked metal doors so if needed we could try to clear if needed and loot there's pletly of heavy duty law enforcement vehicles out front and in the connected garage for our use there to after all that its time to head to the water and light company its all in one here so if we can keep that place running all we have to worry about is people trying to eat us lol

[Lilydragon]

My significant other has a sward under our bed, and two unsharpened ones in our closet. Otherwise, I'd go for my large kitchen knives. 6"-7" sarated blade knives. And I have a tazer. We have bars on our windows. There is also a police substation less than a mile away. And once things calmed down I would head to Arizona to raid a medical supply warehouse. I would then try to learn archery. I wouldn't want to get up close and personal with a Z if I didn't have to.

[Jannit]

Thirty one pages later and mild ADD so apologies if this has been discussed already.

Any ideas how to get out of a 30 story office tower in the downtown core? I recently switched jobs and all I can think about in this new place is that I'd be completely fucked in the case of Z-Day or even a large scale disaster.

Getting out of the building would be the most immediate issue, of course. There are two scenarios I've considered. First: Try and get out in the initial panic when there's more chance of the Z's being distracted. Down side is there is just too much you can't control in that case. Second: Hide out in my over-sized closet that locks from the inside for some reason and try to sneak out after the panic has subsided. This would probably be the more dangerous idea as it'd be too easy to draw attention and get turned into a snack.

Second problem: Roads in and out of downtown are congested at the best of times and I can only imagine it'd be a parking lot at the worst so vehicular travel is out. Running/bicycling would be a more likely way to get out except you've got the crowds to contend with. Plus, just past the north end of the central part of the city is a rail yard surrounded by fairly high fences which obviously impedes travel. It'd be good if/when you're over the fence to buy some time but not blocked off enough to keep the Z's out completely.

At the end of the day, if SHTF, I think I'd be toast.

[timjn]

I would never want to stay in this house, as it's just positioned terribly. It could easily be swarmed, and there are several ways to make your way inside.

[Merlin1274]

Thirty one pages later and mild ADD so apologies if this has been discussed already.

Any ideas how to get out of a 30 story office tower in the downtown core? I recently switched jobs and all I can think about in this new place is that I'd be completely fucked in the case of Z-Day or even a large scale disaster.

Getting out of the building would be the most immediate issue, of course. There are two scenarios I've considered. First: Try and get out in the initial panic when there's more chance of the Z's being distracted. Down side is there is just too much you can't control in that case. Second: Hide out in my over-sized closet that locks from the inside for some reason and try to sneak out after the panic has subsided. This would probably be the more dangerous idea as it'd be too easy to draw attention and get turned into a snack.

Second problem: Roads in and out of downtown are congested at the best of times and I can only imagine it'd be a parking lot at the worst so vehicular travel is out. Running/bicycling would be a more likely way to get out except you've got the crowds to contend with. Plus, just past the north end of the central part of the city is a rail yard surrounded by fairly high fences which obviously impedes travel. It'd be good if/when you're over the fence to buy some time but not blocked off enough to keep the Z's out completely.

At the end of the day, if SHTF, I think I'd be toast.

Carry a Back Pack with you with supplies to last you a few days. Stay put till you can safely get out, by then the rush will be calm. That would be your Third Option.
I think your chance of not surviving is greater when running out in a rush. Mainly from other people.

[JaccobZ]

Carry a Back Pack with you with supplies to last you a few days. Stay put till you can safely get out, by then the rush will be calm. That would be your Third Option.
I think your chance of not surviving is greater when running out in a rush. Mainly from other people.

That's what I call a nice advice! :)

[JaccobZ]

I would probably prepare my axes, mauls and other professional tools, you know, some of these (https://cozyhousetoday.com/best-splitting-maul-reviews), and will prepare myself physically, as well as mentally to meet them :) It's not hard at all. The main thing - is practice. You can gain enough practice for couple of months.