Who's The Rat?

[StepLaugh]

Ok, I know there's been a lot of talk about who the rat, snitch, mole, call it whatever you will.

But who do you think told the "Mallers" about the details of the Tower, and about the people inside it.

Remember that Scratch knew that Micheal had a broken arm, and they knew about their ammo shortage.

[Ra1th]

wtf, who thinks pegs or burt is the leak? why? and dont you dare say angel

[sdkmcqueen]

I chose Kalani because he was the new guy. And for all we know he could have been a maller who was captured.

[StepLaugh]

I chose Kalani because he was the new guy. And for all we know he could have been a maller who was captured.

I honestly haven't thought of it that way. I like it.

Maybe...just maybe, the mallers abandoned him, and he has secretly wanted to get back at them, and maybe he fired the first shot?

That might explain why he didn't want Angel to put the body back so bad.

[Wicked Sid]

wtf, who thinks pegs or burt is the leak? why? and dont you dare say angel

I could tell you who voted for Pegs, but I shouldn't, its confidential and it wasn't me, I voted for Saul.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Kalani wasn't there long enough to recon the building and know about the ammo. He sure as hell wasn't going up and down all those stairs considering his shape. Kelly is the only one with the motivation. She doesn't like Michael, tried to leave..and she's a LAWYER!! No moral compass there.
Bill may have been the one to fire the first shot, and the one to steal the ammo, but he wasn't around enough to really be hip to Michael's condition. He wanted to be left alone and I don't see him calling MORE people into his building.
Burt has a hard on for the Mallers because they broke into his place, so I don't see him as the mole.

[Kc]

HA HA... I voted for Pegs. I rule!

[Wicked Sid]

It was Saul, Dammit!

[sdkmcqueen]

How could it be saul? He was shitfaced with lizzy when the stuff was going down. I still dont know why bill hid the ammo, so he is a viable option. Kelly's nephew (Cant remember his name), could have been the rat. He died in the attack and was mysteriously absent from the radio. Food for thought?

[fraggot]

Damn no one likes Kalani haha

[Hollomandious]

I voted for Angel. I did this in protest of the fact that there is no option for "random bastard."

I don't want to believe it was anyone on the list. And until it is made absolutely clear for me via the podcast, i refuse to think otherwise.

[ok, i kinda think bill did it, but shhhhhhh.... don't tell anyone.]

[Ra1th]

i voted for angel. I did this in protest of the fact that there is no option for "random bastard."

i don't want to believe it was anyone on the list. And until it is made absolutely clear for me via the podcast, i refuse to think otherwise.

[ok, i kinda think bill did it, but shhhhhhh.... Don't tell anyone.]

then why'd u blame aangell???

[Ra1th]

It was Saul, Dammit!

why is it saul?

[Hollomandious]

then why'd u blame aangell???

In protest.

Comon, KC voted for Pegs. [man, i hope he was joking.]

[Ra1th]

In protest.

Comon, KC voted for Pegs. [man, i hope he was joking.]

hahaha i didnt see it till after i'd double posted hahaaha, pegs is harmless, and whiny as hell

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

ROFL@ "No Random Bastard" I'm with you Hollomandious.

[jamman39]

It was Angel, he's got a relationship with the Mallers

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Ra1th,

Pegs being helpless is probably the reason it's her. She's not stupid, but she IS stupid if you get my drift. She's untainted (she was at least) and probably thinks that calling the mallers gives them strength in numbers. i've expanded this theory a few times, so i won't beat the decaying horse.

[I The K Train I]

I'm gonna say Kelly.

Just for my random vote..... and I think she did it. Have no idea why

[Ra1th]

Ra1th,

Pegs being helpless is probably the reason it's her. She's not stupid, but she IS stupid if you get my drift. She's untainted (she was at least) and probably thinks that calling the mallers gives them strength in numbers. i've expanded this theory a few times, so i won't beat the decaying horse.

see heres the thing tho, although i could TOTALLY see pegs being naive/dumb enough to believe that, i dont see her as a capable enough a liar to hold up a facade saying she's innocent, she's not really sneaky, or underhanded, she's like a child, ussually after she makes a mistake she'll go cry about it. Besides during the interchange between her and durai, durai didnt know her name, until scratch told her, and i can see an argument saying that durai could be lying but that overcopmlicates things imo

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Ra1th,

I see your point as well. I'm just shooting theories out there. Personally, I think it's Kelly. That's if it HAS to be one of the well known people. I'm more inclinded to say its just some fool they picked up. If it was one of the top 6/7, why are they STILL there? Why didn't they slip out during the confusion?

~Sauls my Wingman~

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

There is one thing that has been tugging at my nose hairs. Durai shot out the cameras. How did he know where they were? I only ask that, because in my imagination, i see really small jury rigged cameras. Ones that aren't really visible by anyone just looking up from the ground... On the other hand, if they were some big joints with lights, then disregard my entire damn question. LOL

[StepLaugh]

Sorry, I totally should have done a Random Bastard option.

I can just guess how much KC is enjoying seeing all this.

I bet he has the biggest grim on his face XD

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

LOL.. he gets to play God! Wait! Hold up? You created this poll, not KC??? Now i'm feeling like Vinny Barbarino *I'm so confused* that may be before your time, sorry. ROFL!

[Kc]

Sorry, I totally should have done a Random Bastard option.

I can just guess how much KC is enjoying seeing all this.

I bet he has the biggest grim on his face XD

Hee hee Hee.

[hardrocknguy]

I think the rat is Kelly. She was spiteful and was causing a problem(s) at the time. It wasn't until after Tommy died that her attitude changed.

NOW, who do I want it too be; Kalani, so he can finally be off the show.

[StepLaugh]

I'm surprised at how many people think Angel is the "rat"

[Hollomandious]

I'm surprised at how many people think Angel is the "rat"

Well, one of those votes is BS. [mine]

[Adogg]

I think the rat is Kelly. She was spiteful and was causing a problem(s) at the time. It wasn't until after Tommy died that her attitude changed.

NOW, who do I want it too be; Kalani, so he can finally be off the show.

Agreed. IMHO Kelly apears to have a disproportionate amount of guilt for Tommy's death. I wouldnt have this feeling if she blamed the leaders for his death and showed some anger towards them. Instead she is solemn and reserved as if to say she doesn't blame them at all. She even was the first to step-up to take care of Saul (remember she was the one who wanted to throw out Tommy for hoarding the gluton free food). Add in that she suddenly agreed with Michael just before the Mallers arrived, as if to placate him, and it just seems evident that she:

1. Told the Mallers what they wanted to know (hence the lack of detail regarding Pegs)
2. Was promised something (protection for her and Tommy)
3. Had no idea that this would result in violence and didn't think through her actions
4. Holds her herself accountable for Tommy's death and Saul's injury.

I can't see how it could be anyone other than an unknown person (maybe a Maller plant?)

[StepLaugh]

Agreed. IMHO Kelly apears to have a disproportionate amount of guilt for Tommy's death. I wouldnt have this feeling if she blamed the leaders for his death and showed some anger towards them. Instead she is solemn and reserved as if to say she doesn't blame them at all. She even was the first to step-up to take care of Saul (remember she was the one who wanted to throw out Tommy for hoarding the gluton free food). Add in that she suddenly agreed with Michael just before the Mallers arrived, as if to placate him, and it just seems evident that she:

1. Told the Mallers what they wanted to know (hence the lack of detail regarding Pegs)
2. Was promised something (protection for her and Tommy)
3. Had no idea that this would result in violence and didn't think through her actions
4. Holds her herself accountable for Tommy's death and Saul's injury.

I can't see how it could be anyone other than an unknown person (maybe a Maller plant?)

After you saying all of this you make a STRONG point for kelly to be the mole. You now have me convinced.

[TCM Revolver]

LOL I voted for Burt. My theory is basically that Burt never liked Michael being in charge. How better to get the tower to not trust Michael anymore than show his weaknesses. Just a theory. (do you...

[Spud]

I would if i knew who it was

[StepLaugh]

I think this is one of the big mysteries on the show. Along with some people's past, and Ink.

What are some other theories?

Might get another thread going?

Team Kelly FTW!

[RamblinMike]

Agreed. IMHO Kelly apears to have a disproportionate amount of guilt for Tommy's death. I wouldnt have this feeling if she blamed the leaders for his death and showed some anger towards them. Instead she is solemn and reserved as if to say she doesn't blame them at all. She even was the first to step-up to take care of Saul (remember she was the one who wanted to throw out Tommy for hoarding the gluton free food). Add in that she suddenly agreed with Michael just before the Mallers arrived, as if to placate him, and it just seems evident that she:

1. Told the Mallers what they wanted to know (hence the lack of detail regarding Pegs)
2. Was promised something (protection for her and Tommy)
3. Had no idea that this would result in violence and didn't think through her actions
4. Holds her herself accountable for Tommy's death and Saul's injury.

I can't see how it could be anyone other than an unknown person (maybe a Maller plant?)

That's one helluva case. I vote Kelly too. Who else bets she'll try and atone for it somehow at the Colony?

It's surprising lots of people are voting Kalani, since he really didn't have time enough to betray them, and no motive either. And, for the record, I buy the story about him as a pilot.

[StepLaugh]

I on the other hand don't really buy him as a pilot. I could have been in the LA area for the whole time if he's making it up. I think he has an end goal.

[Hollomandious]

I on the other hand don't really buy him as a pilot. I could have been in the LA area for the whole time if he's making it up. I think he has an end goal.

But what possible end could lieing about that do? It's not like anyone was gonna go to Hawaii. Or overall, it doesn't really matter how much worse it is elsewhere, cause they aren't there. And during the boat incident we found that water isn't really a perfect barricade.

I just think he has an annoying personality. But it is, what makes him him. And there's always gotta be at least 1 doosh around at any given time.

[nikvoodoo]

I chose Datu.

For the longest time, I would swear by Kelly. She makes the most sense overall to me. But two things changed my mind: I relistened to The War chapter, and the person who first defends the Tower as a weaponless resident is Kelly. She is the first person to throw a couch over the balcony. She's trying to defend their home. I also keyed on Jim Gleason's reasons why Datu survived (thematically) in the stadium as stated on the We're Not Dead podcast. Datu has a never say die attitude and it serves him well. He survives because he has faith that he will. Samantha's fatalist approach to her situation lends to her destruction.

Since the encounter at the Stadium, Datu has adopted the fatalist stance (and become an insufferable annoyance). He's also got severe survivors guilt. When he returned to the Tower, he was crushed and couldn't care less. And he's the only one we never heard at the party.

Can't you just see him talking to the Mallers on the radio, depressed and choking up wanting them to come in and end his misery? He can hear the merriment of the party and it just grinds on his last nerve. Why can't he and Samantha be up there having fun? Then he gets more pissed that they aren't coming in to kill him fast enough so he fires off the first rounds to make them come faster.

So call me/it crazy, but I call Datu trying commit suicide by Maller.

[Ra1th]

I chose Datu.

For the longest time, I would swear by Kelly. She makes the most sense overall to me. But two things changed my mind: I relistened to The War chapter, and the person who first defends the Tower as a weaponless resident is Kelly. She is the first person to throw a couch over the balcony. She's trying to defend their home. I also keyed on Jim Gleason's reasons why Datu survived (thematically) in the stadium as stated on the We're Not Dead podcast. Datu has a never say die attitude and it serves him well. He survives because he has faith that he will. Samantha's fatalist approach to her situation lends to her destruction.

Since the encounter at the Stadium, Datu has adopted the fatalist stance (and become an insufferable annoyance). He's also got severe survivors guilt. When he returned to the Tower, he was crushed and couldn't care less. And he's the only one we never heard at the party.

Can't you just see him talking to the Mallers on the radio, depressed and choking up wanting them to come in and end his misery? He can hear the merriment of the party and it just grinds on his last nerve. Why can't he and Samantha be up there having fun? Then he gets more pissed that they aren't coming in to kill him fast enough so he fires off the first rounds to make them come faster.

So call me/it crazy, but I call Datu trying commit suicide by Maller.

ohmygod that is brilliant, i mean of all the arguments i've heard so far, and i think i've heard damn near ALL of them, not a single character seemed to have a proper motive to call in the mallers, i mean sure kelly is a class A bitch, and its possible she contacted the mallers but, it just doesnt seem to fit together all that well, same with Burt, it couldnt have been burt, he fought tooth and nail for the tower. Kalani seems possible but once again not enough motive, unless he's not who we think he is at all, so maybe kalani, BUT THIS argument, is possibly the best one i've heard! Datu was not at the party, this could easily be a case of the pressures of the zombie apocalypse being too much for him to handle.

and on top of everything i HATE datu, so this would be awesome! he'd be a traitor, no one would like him, he'd prly die a terrible death, and we wont have to listen to his bitching about life not being fair anymore. Datu just moved to the top of my traitor list!

[Spud]

i love where this thread is going
all your theories just draw me in more

[Onslaught]

I voted for Kelly, It's probably just because I just don't like her, I was torn between voting for her or Kalani because when Kalani showed up thats when the everything went to hell so I'm guessing he was a maller that was captured.

[StepLaugh]

i love where this thread is going
all your theories just draw me in more

I agree. I was Kalani, then kelly, and now I have no idea. This is tough.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Step,

The best reason she could be the rat is...... She a LAWYER!
What do you think her Moral Compass is like?

[StepLaugh]

Step,

The best reason she could be the rat is...... She a LAWYER!
What do you think her Moral Compass is like?

She might have been a lawyer for one of the Mallers too!

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

No, what i'm saying is that Lawyers and Politicians tend to have a skewed Moral Compass. Therefore, they can't be trusted to do anything but lookout for their own best interests or look out for other's interests when it fits there own or they think they know better than you or I (which is normally the case). So, she'd cut a deal for "their own good."

[RamblinMike]

Woo hoo, Kelly has almost caught up with Kalani!


She might have been a lawyer for one of the Mallers too!

Oh, snap, I hadn't thought of that. Good call and I bet it's true!

[mascaria]

It was Saul, Dammit!

It most certainly was not!

[Hollomandious]

I agree. I was Kalani, then kelly, and now I have no idea. This is tough.

could always be no one that matters. or, maybe another member of the tower who is still there and may become more prominent later?

lets just blame paul so we can close the case?

[Adogg]

I chose Datu.

For the longest time, I would swear by Kelly. She makes the most sense overall to me. But two things changed my mind: I relistened to The War chapter, and the person who first defends the Tower as a weaponless resident is Kelly. She is the first person to throw a couch over the balcony. She's trying to defend their home. I also keyed on Jim Gleason's reasons why Datu survived (thematically) in the stadium as stated on the We're Not Dead podcast. Datu has a never say die attitude and it serves him well. He survives because he has faith that he will. Samantha's fatalist approach to her situation lends to her destruction.

Since the encounter at the Stadium, Datu has adopted the fatalist stance (and become an insufferable annoyance). He's also got severe survivors guilt. When he returned to the Tower, he was crushed and couldn't care less. And he's the only one we never heard at the party.

Can't you just see him talking to the Mallers on the radio, depressed and choking up wanting them to come in and end his misery? He can hear the merriment of the party and it just grinds on his last nerve. Why can't he and Samantha be up there having fun? Then he gets more pissed that they aren't coming in to kill him fast enough so he fires off the first rounds to make them come faster.

So call me/it crazy, but I call Datu trying commit suicide by Maller.

Very well thought out answer. I can see something like that but still feel it is Kelly. Now i'm going to have to relisten to episode and account for where everyone is. However, I was under the impression that the traitor gave out information earlier and not just at that point. I mean the Mallers took a risk going there and had to prepare. Therefore, party-time activity probably does not equal traitor activity. And wasnt this the time that Kelly started drinking?

I'm still in the behavior-change-in-Kelly-equals-traitor camp for now....

[Brokenzipper]

But bill had the key for the ammo room, a firearm to take the shot and pushed allot of drinks on everyone.

Also thought that Kelly might have been the lawyer for a maller, but disregarded because they were in jail, she lost, or won(as a prosecutor) and the mallers would hate her.

[nikvoodoo]

Very well thought out answer. I can see something like that but still feel it is Kelly. Now i'm going to have to relisten to episode and account for where everyone is. However, I was under the impression that the traitor gave out information earlier and not just at that point. I mean the Mallers took a risk going there and had to prepare. Therefore, party-time activity probably does not equal traitor activity. And wasnt this the time that Kelly started drinking?

I'm still in the behavior-change-in-Kelly-equals-traitor camp for now....

There was a full day between the return from the arena and the party. The traitor didn't have to do what they did during the party. The could have betrayed the tower in installments. Datu is the only main cast character not heard from during the war. I think the revelations from 18-2 will set things in motion to reveal Datu's betrayal.


But bill had the key for the ammo room, a firearm to take the shot and pushed allot of drinks on everyone.

Bill had a shotgun. The shots that started the war were from a pistol.

[StepLaugh]

could always be no one that matters. or, maybe another member of the tower who is still there and may become more prominent later?

lets just blame paul so we can close the case?

HAHA Paul...he was such a nice guy.

[hthu]

It was Michael. He must have contacted the mallers during his MIA period, perhaps in an effort to get out. That's how they knew he was injured. It's the most unlikely choice, but that's why it's gotta be it. The poll does not include this option, so I picked Kelly just because she's the next one of my list of possible "suspects."

[nikvoodoo]

It was Michael. He must have contacted the mallers during his MIA period, perhaps in an effort to get out. That's how they knew he was injured. It's the most unlikely choice, but that's why it's gotta be it. The poll does not include this option, so I picked Kelly just because she's the next one of my list of possible "suspects."

Michael doesn't lie well. Every time he attempts to lie, whom ever he lied to sees through it almost immediately. Besides, when he was about to call the Mallers there was genuine shock in his voice when he realized what channel the radio was set to 18.

[hthu]

Michael doesn't lie well. Every time he attempts to lie, whom ever he lied to sees through it almost immediately. Besides, when he was about to call the Mallers there was genuine shock in his voice when he realized what channel the radio was set to 18.

You are right. After reading some of the other comments, Datu is rising quickly to the top in my list of suspects. I really hope it wasn't him; he is/was such a nice guy. Really kind hope it was just Bill or Kelly or Kalani. But Datu fits...

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Here's the other point, Mike didn't have access to the radio while he was MIA. Guess who did?!!

[Onslaught]

Here's the other point, Mike didn't have access to the radio while he was MIA. Guess who did?!!
Are you trying to say Tommy was the one who called the Mallers? I highly doubt that. They destroyed everything he made to help the tower stay safe. I think it could have been Bill, because right before he died he said he was sorry, they never explained what he was sorry for. Not only that but Bill was the one who also stole all of the weapons and ammo. He could have also called the mallers when he was stealing the supplies. There was what a one or two day difference between the break-in and the party right?

[nikvoodoo]

Are you trying to say Tommy was the one who called the Mallers? I highly doubt that. They destroyed everything he made to help the tower stay safe. I think it could have been Bill, because right before he died he said he was sorry, they never explained what he was sorry for. Not only that but Bill was the one who also stole all of the weapons and ammo.

in my opinion, you've answered your own query. Bill could have been apologizing for stealing the weapons and ammo. Besides, in order to discover who the traitor is they kind of need to be alive. Bill doesn't seem like the type to have written down a master plan and left it in a drawer to be discovered later.

Another thing that has been bugging me (now that we've brought up Tommy), is how did the person betray the Tower without alerting the guard on duty? By the way, this question is slightly self serving and leads directly to my accusation of Datu who is good with simple electronics and could have bogarted a radio some how and hooked it up else where in the building to call the Mallers without having to do it from the security office.

[Wicked Sid]

Maybe it was the guy who was shot by a guard in one of the early episodes, that could be why he was leaving in the middle of the night or was he coming back? I can't recall that or his name.

[Ra1th]

in my opinion, you've answered your own query. Bill could have been apologizing for stealing the weapons and ammo. Besides, in order to discover who the traitor is they kind of need to be alive. Bill doesn't seem like the type to have written down a master plan and left it in a drawer to be discovered later.

Another thing that has been bugging me (now that we've brought up Tommy), is how did the person betray the Tower without alerting the guard on duty? By the way, this question is slightly self serving and leads directly to my accusation of Datu who is good with simple electronics and could have bogarted a radio some how and hooked it up else where in the building to call the Mallers without having to do it from the security office.

i love the idea of datu being the traiter (screw that guy) but even if he did wire up his own radio and hook it up somewhere else in teh building, at one point in time that day, the traiter was in the lookout room on guard duty, because the main radio was set to channel 18. and the explanations is fairly simple, one of the ppl who was on guard duty that day was responsible. everyone knew about the party the day before so all this guy had to do was take a guard duty shift and call into the mallers. it cannot be tommy and it cannot be Bill just because storywise there is no point in having a dead guy be the traitor.

[nikvoodoo]

Maybe it was the guy who was shot by a guard in one of the early episodes, that could be why he was leaving in the middle of the night or was he coming back? I can't recall that or his name.

I can't even begin to understand what you're talking about....

The only tower guard I know of that was shot was that dude that tried to escape after burt took over. Think his name was Simon. But he was killed by a zombie and tried to shoot it.

The voodoo be confused...:-p

[Wicked Sid]

Mine was that of a vague description, I had no idea of the circumstances nor of the parties involved. I took a shot in the dark at a theory that had hit my mind whilst reading. But, alas, even after searching for it, I had no luck in finding it. Maybe others will be able to elaborate.

[StepLaugh]

Maybe it was the guy who was shot by a guard in one of the early episodes, that could be why he was leaving in the middle of the night or was he coming back? I can't recall that or his name.

It can't be someone early, or how would they know about Micheal's arm?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Here's another point. Why LEAVE the dial at 18 if you're trying to be sneaky? Seems dumb to me! You'd reset the channel after using it.
Bill owned the building correct? He was a selfish bastard and didn't want anyone else there in the first place. Ain't no way in hell he'd invite MORE people in. Besides, he stayed pretty much to himself all locked behind his apartment door. He said "i'm sorry simply because he took all that stuff"

[Onslaught]

because the main radio was set to channel 18.
The main radio was set to channel 18, which means that the person who contacted the Mallers had A. either contacted them before B. was good at guessing or C. has a connection to the Mallers in some shape or form.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Whoever it was, they were in contact regularly because the mallers had some great intel on the Tower. Intel that had been gathered over time and kept up to date.

[StepLaugh]

Whoever it was, they were in contact regularly because the mallers had some great intel on the Tower. Intel that had been gathered over time and kept up to date.

I totally agree. They told the mallers all about the important people too.

[Destiny]

I chose Kalani because he was the new guy. And for all we know he could have been a maller who was captured.

Plus he kind of disappeared when the fire started.

[nikvoodoo]

Plus he kind of disappeared when the fire started.

No more than anyone else who was missing at the time. You don't hear from Datu, there's a long period of time you don't hear from Kelly. Kalani isn't the only one missing.

[Destiny]

No more than anyone else who was missing at the time. You don't hear from Datu, there's a long period of time you don't hear from Kelly. Kalani isn't the only one missing.

You don't hear from Kalani until the next day though. You heard from Datu and Kelly towards the end when they were fighting the fire.

[Wicked Sid]

No one voted for Lizzy?

It was Lizzy, Dammit!

[nikvoodoo]

You don't hear from Kalani until the next day though. You heard from Datu and Kelly towards the end when they were fighting the fire.

Relisten to Chapter 13 Part 1. Time Stamp 9:40. Kalani is on the roof with the rest of the Tower survivors. Before the fire is out. Before they even have the plan to take out the fire.

[Destiny]

Relisten to Chapter 13 Part 1. Time Stamp 9:40. Kalani is on the roof with the rest of the Tower survivors. Before the fire is out. Before they even have the plan to take out the fire.

Oh. Well wasn't the shooter in a different building and not in the Tower? Or was he/she (or it? if it was one of the smart zombies) just in a different room?

[nikvoodoo]

Oh. Well wasn't the shooter in a different building and not in the Tower? Or was he/she (or it? if it was one of the smart zombies) just in a different room?

Shots came from the third floor. Scratch calls out "3rd floor second window from the left" but we don't know who that room belongs.

I suppose the shots could be coming from another building but if that's the case the Mallers would have destroyed that other building. If they were looking to start the war on their own, they potentially could have. No one in the Tower had eyes on the street anymore, so the Mallers could have fired the first shots in the air and claimed it was the Tower. But the response by Durai and Scratch to the shots sounded genuine. They were surprised by the shots.

[Onslaught]

Who the hell thought it was Burt? The mallers stole his guns, why would he help them take over the tower?

[nikvoodoo]

Who the hell thought it was Burt? The mallers stole his guns, why would he help them take over the tower?

If you click on the poll, it will tell you who voted for whom.

[Onslaught]

If you click on the poll, it will tell you who voted for whom.
Oh okay so now I can see who I'm supposed to be going after. Just kidding

[nikvoodoo]

I just wish people were allowed to change their vote to reflect the arguments being presented. I got my Datu argument in after a majority of the forum had already voted and I've only been able to convince mascaria and I had an awesome argument damnit!

[Ra1th]

Hey Wicked Sid, why do u think it's saul?

[nikvoodoo]

Goddamn Spam, Sorry Voodoo.

Anybody remember Strong Bad (http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail118.html)? "What is this? Did the quadradic formula explode? I see a [perfect world] in there, but its being eaten....by some linux...."

[added to make it work for our purposes here]

[mascaria]

I just wish people were allowed to change their vote to reflect the arguments being presented. I got my Datu argument in after a majority of the forum had already voted and I've only been able to convince mascaria and I had an awesome argument damnit!
I'm still mad that you convinced me :(

I liked Datu damnit!

[Wicked Sid]

Hey Wicked Sid, why do u think it's saul?

He was drunk, before the party, and said "I need to save my own ass!" Blam, radio, Mallers, and Towers.

[Destiny]

I don't want to believe that any of the main characters are responsible. So might as well blame it on Kalani for being the rat, he's pretty worthless. Plus he's new and nobody knows about him. And he just gets in the way. He's the perfect scapegoat. Him or Kelly.

Saul might make sense. I mean when he was first scouting their base, what if he made a deal with the Mallers in order to avoid being killed by them (or the zombies)? But then again, Mallers aren't smart enough to try something like that.

[Destiny]

Wait, Saul couldn't have. Because whoever it was they assassinated Durai. And Saul is a terrible shot when sober, also bear in mind that Saul was drink at the time, and Lizzy was with him.

I don't want to say it, but perhaps Lizzy took Saul's gun, and Saul didn't tell the others it was her since he loves her and will protect her. And Lizzy is a really good marksman so she could have killed Durai.

[TCM Revolver]

I just wish people were allowed to change their vote to reflect the arguments being presented. I got my Datu argument in after a majority of the forum had already voted and I've only been able to convince mascaria and I had an awesome argument damnit!

Maybe in a couple weeks we can do a "who's the rat v. 2.0" and compare notes.

[Ra1th]

Maybe in a couple weeks we can do a "who's the rat v. 2.0" and compare notes.

that sounds like a good idea, especially cause it seems like kelly and kalani have gone through redemptions, maybe the odds have changed

[Destiny]

that sounds like a good idea, especially cause it seems like kelly and kalani have gone through redemptions, maybe the odds have changed

I still say it's Kalani.

[nikvoodoo]

Wait, Saul couldn't have. Because whoever it was they assassinated Durai. And Saul is a terrible shot when sober, also bear in mind that Saul was drink at the time, and Lizzy was with him.

I don't want to say it, but perhaps Lizzy took Saul's gun, and Saul didn't tell the others it was her since he loves her and will protect her. And Lizzy is a really good marksman so she could have killed Durai.

Wait what? Who assassinated Durai? Best of my knowledge Durai escaped the Tower unscathed. His body wasn't mentioned as among the dead mallers the Tower found after the War. And after the shots were fired, Durai was still talking to the Tower over the radio. Not to say he wasn't killed in the battle, but there's no evidence he was.

[Destiny]

Wait what? Who assassinated Durai? Best of my knowledge Durai escaped the Tower unscathed. His body wasn't mentioned as among the dead mallers the Tower found after the War. And after the shots were fired, Durai was still talking to the Tower over the radio. Not to say he wasn't killed in the battle, but there's no evidence he was.

He wasn't heard talking after the gunshots though? And Scratch is the one who said "you're going to regret that"

[nikvoodoo]

He wasn't heard talking after the gunshots though? And Scratch is the one who said "you're going to regret that"

Gunshots were done and Durai said "you're shooting at us." If he'd been shot, I'd imagine the next words out of his mouth would either be "You shot me" or nothing because he'd be dead instead of "You're shooting at us". Going with my idea that Durai has a massive superiority complex, he would be insulted by the notion that he was shot at and then have the opposition try to backtrack. He could very easily have thrown the handset to Scratch and went to organize the first wave of attacks.

[StepLaugh]

It was deff. someone from the tower. Then again do we still believe that the person who fired the first shot is the same one who is the rat?

[nikvoodoo]

It was deff. someone from the tower. Then again do we still believe that the person who fired the first shot is the same one who is the rat?

You just reminded me of something. When I first saw Scream I actually called the bad guys correctly. I said "Oh it has to be person a and person b......no wait...that...that can't be right. There are never two bad guys in slasher flicks because they all follow the same formula." So then I settled on just person a, and got really mad when I discovered I was right the first time.

Perhaps it's not just one person whodunit. It could actually be more than one person who blew the Tower in together. *stroking chin...* hmmm....

[Teethingbiscuit]

If Kelly were with the Mallers she is in prime real estate for a call right now!
I voted Kelly, mostly because CrowBar left out the real rat or at least an option to choose him/her.
I now feel as though Kelly was not a plant from the Mallers but the real deal. Tommy had a back story to where they were when the wave hit their neighborhood. I am running myself in circles though, because it may have been after she got in she was able to pick up a conversation with the Mallers, and damn did she not like Micheal's leadership... yep, its Kelly. But wait, ha ha.
Teeth

[j0be]

What if we don't think there was a rat? Hmmm... maybe there was a different way. I might detail my theory later, but it would be interesting.

[cPT.cAPSLOCK]

What if we don't think there was a rat? Hmmm... maybe there was a different way. I might detail my theory later, but it would be interesting.

I'm curious about your theory, because to me it really looks like there was an insider. I'll be waiting for your details :)

[j0be]

It's definitely not conclusive, and I kind of see holes in it. It was more a theory as I was listening, which then started to get less likely through the progression. But basically it delved into Latch's (unstated) background. His nickname insinuates that he was the one who broke into Burt's store (Locked & Loaded, not the tower). If the Maulers/Mallers had coordinated an attack with the tattooed one, they could have broken in, and stolen equipment, talked on the radio, etc. However, once they found the stolen goods, it seemed a lot less likely. I definitely enjoyed the thought that everyone is chasing a rat that doesn't exist.

[Chelsea C.]

I voted for Kelly! I may not like Pegs, but she's no snitch.

[Ryzilient]

I voted for Angel, mainly due to his relationship with Scratch. Their relationship is more than suspicious, and the fact that he appears to be very, very street wise (See his hotwiring skills) for someone who appears to have been groomed to go through Officer's School. Scratch seems to be much too familiar with Angel for their relationship to have been a passing thing.

[Kc]

I voted for Pegs... *chuckling in the corner

[Chelsea C.]

I voted for Pegs... *chuckling in the corner

Please make it true, KC, and then we could Taser her again...or you could throw in an Iron Maiden like Nikvoodoo recommended. I like his style. :)

[Wicked Sid]

I said it before and will say it again!

It Was Saul, Dammit!

[Chelsea C.]

I said it before and will say it again!

It Was Saul, Dammit!

It was Kelly AND Riley! They're lovers in cahoots! It all makes sense now.

[StepLaugh]

I'm not completely sure who it is, but my gut is telling me that Kelly is the one, even though I like her now.

[nikvoodoo]

And I still say Datu is the only one who had a motive and was the only person not heard from at the party.

I think if we haven't seen the reveal of the traitor by the end of Chapter 20, we should close this thread and take a re-vote on the topic now that everyone has made 11 pages worth of comments and arguments and see if anything has changed.

[Funny Muffins]

I continue to withhold my vote, could it be that Bill was the rat and someone else starting firing what sounded like a pistol, five rounds were fired one breaking a windshield.
Could Bill have stolen a weapon when he took all the supplies, thus planning to initiate the war with his new contacts?

Did Bill know about The Mallers from any previous briefings? It is obvious that he was at the stolen supplies meeting, he coughed during the dramatic tower meeting.
If we assume he know nothing of their existence and somehow happened across the CB channel one night then we are assuming far too much...
Could it be Paul?
Could it be a somehow captured and cooperating Saul?

Ch. 1 had Riley receiving a pistol and who knows what happened to it after that fact...

EDIT!!** She sleeps with it close by and even drunk is ready to use it.
Could she have??**

[manintrees]

As much as I hate to say this, I think it may have been Burt. These are the reasons:

They stole his property and that really pissed him off.

He is a soldier to the core and probably feels the need to deal with his enemies through any means possible. In my experience, people who are willing to give their lives for their fellow citizen, don't care much for criminals.

He enjoys the fighting and things were getting a little mundane. Keep in mind Burt doesn't have a lot to lose (at least he thought he didn't).

I believe Bill took the items on his own because he has a solo survivalist mentality and was just making sure he wouldn't have to rely on anyone if things went seriously south. Burt was very proud of Bill's sacrifice during the war and may have thought Bill's (and Tommy's) death was his fault.

Bill may have tipped off the maller's before he knew of the party and the lack of ammo.

[StepLaugh]

And I still say Datu is the only one who had a motive and was the only person not heard from at the party.

I think if we haven't seen the reveal of the traitor by the end of Chapter 20, we should close this thread and take a re-vote on the topic now that everyone has made 11 pages worth of comments and arguments and see if anything has changed.

I might have to agree with you on that one, there is alot to catch up on if you're new to the forums. XD

Plus I think i might wanna change my vote.

[cPT.cAPSLOCK]

Manintrees: Those're all reasons that burt would've fired the first shot. That doesn't mean he informed the mallers about the party, among other things. In fact, while he often disagreed with decisions, I'm sure he preferred living with that over a war that he knew would be really really bad for them. He's smart enough to know the odds.

[manintrees]

Manintrees: Those're all reasons that burt would've fired the first shot. That doesn't mean he informed the mallers about the party, among other things. In fact, while he often disagreed with decisions, I'm sure he preferred living with that over a war that he knew would be really really bad for them. He's smart enough to know the odds.

I suggested that he may have tipped off the mallers before he knew of the party. The last thing Burt would have wanted was his troops to be inebriated.

I have changed my mind about Burt being the rat. 1. I really like Burt and 2. After I made that post I remembered that there were shots fired from an unknown source. These shots kicked off the battle and did not come from Burt.

This is a complete aside, but I think Micheal fumbled the initial discussion with the mallers before the war started. The mallers could never have been trusted but Micheal could have been a little more diplomatic at the start as prisoners stereotypically have irrational respect issues.

If it was me, I would have totally said....actually I would have probably been hiding under a bed weeping with fear...forget it.

[Marietta]

Okay, here's what I think. Saul has the most going against him. He has met the Mallers before and had the radio (or was that a different radio, I don't know) they could of told him in advance about that station.
However, I doubt this. He doesn't seem like the type to do this.

I think it's possible two people were working together. Datu is suspicious to me, he knew where the supplies were at, he claimed Bill put them there but what if he did? He doesn't have motive however.

Kelly has motive but for the sake of her survival doesn't seem like the type.

Honestly, almost everyone has something against them on this. So most are a possibility. I don't pine any of the soldiers as the type, they're all too intelligent or untrusting to do that. This includes Burt.

Kalani, Bill, Datu, Kelly, and Pegs are whom i suspect out of all the ones listed. We don't know much about Kalani at the time this started and Pegs seems too trusting of other people and may have found a way to contact them. They didn't recognize her voice, unless you believe that they did and just didn't claim so, to make her look like she wasn't the culprit. However, I doubt this, what reason would the Mallers keep the secret once they've gotten what they wanted?

I say the most likely is Datu. But something is off about this whole thing. If I suspect one person, each time, there's another reason to go against it. Either not knowing how to contact the Mallers, having no reason to trust them or anything.
Which is why I think it could have been more than one person.

But who? I can't make a choice. Most of them are too suspicious in my eyes.

This is, however, fiction. Logic doesn't really have to apply. They could make it Michael if they wanted to and think up some random reason for it that we never knew about or had any indication of.

However, this being said, it could be anyone. Some have motive, some had means of contact. I don't recall anyone who had motive AND means of contact.

Unless, of course, someone accidentally found them on the radio. But who knows. I'll hold out for the answer.

[Triggernator]

I was going to say Angel because there is a definite link between him and Scratch. He detests the mallers a little too much and is quite linked with them somehow

[Eviebae]

Maybe someone just got drunk and messed around with the radio?
Maybe someone got drunk and has blacked out doing it?
Maybe the Mallers overheard the party on the radio by accident and all their information comes from listening and taking notes?
If Tommy died as the result of Kelly's betrayal, that would be a strong motive for change on her part.

Why didn't Durai know about Pegs?

[HomeGrown]

Maybe the mallers bugged the place and there was no rat! But a weakness in this theory is that they should've known Pegs' voice, unless the bug was somewhere that she never went.

[Funny Muffins]

I can't see the rat being anyone whose narrated thus far...

:)

[Ra1th]

I suggested that he may have tipped off the mallers before he knew of the party. The last thing Burt would have wanted was his troops to be inebriated.

I have changed my mind about Burt being the rat. 1. I really like Burt and 2. After I made that post I remembered that there were shots fired from an unknown source. These shots kicked off the battle and did not come from Burt.

This is a complete aside, but I think Micheal fumbled the initial discussion with the mallers before the war started. The mallers could never have been trusted but Micheal could have been a little more diplomatic at the start as prisoners stereotypically have irrational respect issues.

If it was me, I would have totally said....actually I would have probably been hiding under a bed weeping with fear...forget it.

the mallers KNEW that the tower was inebriated, and burt couldnt have been the one to fire the shots, because he was in the room at the time.

I like the idea of someone very strong, and very intelligent being the mole, and i would like him/her to have their own agenda, the mole does not work for the mallers, the mole doesnt work for the tower, maybe there's more than one mole, but i like the idea of a super playa kind of mole who has his/her own agenda maybe rise to power in the tower *cough* kalani *cough*

maybe kelly but i'd rather it be a very headstrong intelligent character, rather than saul (who's kind of a dumbass, sweet and lovable, but not the sharpest tool in the shed) or angel (why the hell would angel do that? seriously, BRING IT, i have an entire fan club of angel fanatics now, you hate on angel you answer to us!!!)

i also like datu as the mole, cause screw that guy

[cycogod]

just before Bill dies, he says "sorry" . what was he sorry about?

[Funny Muffins]

For sure the food, he knew about that.
He may have wanted to be in some form of control over the situation, maybe he just didn't trust anyone who was left behind at the Tower when all the mgmt was away...


Could he have called the Maulers?
Sure.

Why would he would be the question.
He owes Michael & Krew his life after that infection bit.

Who doesn't have a cover story?
If it's a random character and not a main character, I will be like WTF!?

Very few people are left to be suspicious of at this point, yet a few people stand out.
Hard to say..

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

The Rat was the dude that tried to make a break for it and ended up worm food! I can't remember what his name was though.

[Zombiehead]

I wish I could copy/paste my old message from the other board before it went down.

Anyway I believe there's several people doing things at once. Most of the main characters were out of the Tower except for a few. By the time they came back Suit Zombie was playing around on the floor where Burt's gun shop is. Whoever stole the guns had to be working with someone else in order to move them all quietly in the timeframe they were given since Burt had just left to go rescue Michael. That person also had access to a key to open the locks. Lizzy was with Paul looking at the alarms. Pegs says she was on the roof and then checked on Riley's shop after it had been looted. Note that she says Kelly informed her of this first. Anyone could have stolen food, even the no name extras. All it takes is for people to realize no one is there to stop them. The only people whose whereabouts are not accounted for are Tommy, Kelly, and Bill.

I believe Kelly was the informant but I'm still unsure if she's the gun thief. At the time she had reason to dislike Michael and his leadership. She could have attempted to use the Maller's as a way to remove Michael from power and cut a deal for her and Tommy. She also may have been working with Bill in moving the weapons in hopes that Michael would surrender having no other choice. If that is true, her plan backfired on her and the guilt sparked her change of heart in the end.

[manintrees]

Datu wasn't at the party (right?). <br />
<br />
The ol' Datster is emotionally charged and I think it would be an easy target for a member of the Mallers to turn. I'm guessing he was the one who fired those...

[opcn]

I vote Kelly. (I've only listened through Ch. 11-III so far). What makes me think it was her is that she tried to get Tommy kicked out right before hand, when Burt found the food that Reiley had given Tommy because he could eat it. She was trying to get Tommy to safety before the Mallers came. Then later while Burt was at the Party she must have slipped down to give the message, taking advantage of the fact that she could pull rank so to speak on Tommy. I think she was trying to get Burt to drink too.

[InsanityTM]

If you guys take a look at the "Unanswered questions" section of the Wiki, the clues make it clear who the rat is.

[Pen]

I voted for Bill. Doh! Can I have a redo? Ha I'm thinking it was Kelly. She never liked being at the tower and Tommy had radio control. Even if she's being a team player now, I still think it was her.


*Edit* Thanks InsanityTM I guess I should stick with Bill. Hmmm...

[j0k3rk1ll3r]

Its Bill!!!

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Not Bill! He didn't have the motivation. Why would he want even MORE people in HIS building? He wanted to be left alone in his selfish little world.

[Hollomandious]

Paul did it. That's why he died. Duh! Karma.

[IAmMattFriend]

People need to stop hating on Kalani. Gosh. He's gonna bring a lot of new skill to the team. I bet that sometime in the series, their gonna come across a plane and Kalani is the only on who can fly it.

[nikvoodoo]

People need to stop hating on Kalani. Gosh. He's gonna bring a lot of new skill to the team. I bet that sometime in the series, their gonna come across a plane and Kalani is the only on who can fly it.

Trust me, you're not the only one on here who holds that belief. It's too juicy a tid bit of information about Kalani to pass up. And unless we hear about who the rat is in chapter 20, we get to have all the same arguments all over again. I'm really hoping I convinced more people that Datu was the rat! Come on everyone! DATU! DATU!!!

[Onslaught]

DATU! DATU! DATU! DA...ARGG... DALATU... DALANI... KALANI! KALANI! KALANI!

Sorry Nikvoodoo the infection got me.

[nikvoodoo]

DATU! DATU! DATU! DA...ARGG... DALATU... DALANI... KALANI! KALANI! KALANI!

Sorry Nikvoodoo the infection got me.

Damnit....I thought I inoculated everyone on here from that damn Kalani virus.....back to the lab!

[Funny Muffins]

Datu was given a pistol a while back, but I am quite sure he lost it during the arena bit. (CORRECTION NIK?)
Why would he be the mole? I am under the air that he is emotionally distraught during the party deal.
Could Kelly work a CB radio?
The soldiers sure, the pilot NO DOUBT, P/R/T/L/K probably not.
Bill?
Very possible, he was barricaded on the top floor on day 1.
He knew either something, or someone, he is very suspicious but one question I struggle with is the multiple moles model.
If I am to assume that these characters listed above contains the mole then it seems unlikely that more than one of them would be dirty thus if it was to be one character that fired/called/stole then I would have to settle with Bill.
He knew all the info provided, and even brought down alcohol to help grease the gears.

My only issue with this theory:
I feel a call went out earlier to establish a relationship and then another to queue up the attack and Bill didn't seem to have that kinda time other than when they left for the Arena.

[Ra1th]

Datu was given a pistol a while back, but I am quite sure he lost it during the arena bit. (CORRECTION NIK?)
Why would he be the mole? I am under the air that he is emotionally distraught during the party deal.
Could Kelly work a CB radio?
The soldiers sure, the pilot NO DOUBT, P/R/T/L/K probably not.
Bill?
Very possible, he was barricaded on the top floor on day 1.
He knew either something, or someone, he is very suspicious but one question I struggle with is the multiple moles model.
If I am to assume that these characters listed above contains the mole then it seems unlikely that more than one of them would be dirty thus if it was to be one character that fired/called/stole then I would have to settle with Bill.
He knew all the info provided, and even brought down alcohol to help grease the gears.

My only issue with this theory:
I feel a call went out earlier to establish a relationship and then another to queue up the attack and Bill didn't seem to have that kinda time other than when they left for the Arena.

well first of all, i think knowing how to use a cb radio would be a basic skill in the zombie apocalypse so lets not go jumping to conclusions that only the soldiers can do it, tommy was the tech guy, so no doubt he could, pegs used the radio to call angel at the tower, so she can, Riley and lizzy are both strong characters and often go into the field so no doubt it's survival 101 that they know how to use the radio in case something goes wrong, I'm convinced they all know how to use a radio.

Ur theory with bill seems solid, but i dont think this will be the case, for one reason only, having a dead guy be your mole makes for bad storytelling. that ruins the build up of suspense, which one your loved characters is going to be the traitor, it's building up all this tension, and then having it all be bill, the guy who's already screwed over the group by stealing food and ammo, would be kind of an anticlimax. of course i would take bill over say, angel, or saul or riley, any day, cause if the traitor somehow ends up being angel, (which it wont!) there will be hell to pay! I hope its datu or kalani, just cause i have no attachment to either of them, i think it could be kelly, but she's really grown on me the last few chapters, she's pretty funny and useful now, arghhh right now, all the shitty characters went through a salvation of one sort or another recently, kalani went on an advneture with angel, kelly proved herself, and hope is at the tower so i'm sure datu will stop being a pessimist now. whatever as long as it isnt angel

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I still say it was the guy who died trying to leave the tower!

[nikvoodoo]

Datu was given a pistol a while back, but I am quite sure he lost it during the arena bit. (CORRECTION NIK?)
Why would he be the mole? I am under the air that he is emotionally distraught during the party deal.


He was given a gun, but he emptied it when he fell into the trap. There's no mention that it made it to the Arena so I'll assume he lost it. However, Datu has keys to every room in the building and could make it into the weapons store at any point during the day we don't hear about/during the party.

I explained already earlier when I cast my vote for Datu. And here's the explanation again:

I chose Datu.

For the longest time, I would swear by Kelly. She makes the most sense overall to me. But two things changed my mind: I relistened to The War chapter, and the person who first defends the Tower as a weaponless resident is Kelly. She is the first person to throw a couch over the balcony. She's trying to defend their home. I also keyed on Jim Gleason's reasons why Datu survived (thematically) in the stadium as stated on the We're Not Dead podcast. Datu has a never say die attitude and it serves him well. He survives because he has faith that he will. Samantha's fatalist approach to her situation lends to her destruction.

Since the encounter at the Stadium, Datu has adopted the fatalist stance (and become an insufferable annoyance). He's also got severe survivors guilt. When he returned to the Tower, he was crushed and couldn't care less. And he's the only one we never heard at the party.

Can't you just see him talking to the Mallers on the radio, depressed and choking up wanting them to come in and end his misery? He can hear the merriment of the party and it just grinds on his last nerve. Why can't he and Samantha be up there having fun? Then he gets more pissed that they aren't coming in to kill him fast enough so he fires off the first rounds to make them come faster.

So call me/it crazy, but I call Datu trying commit suicide by Maller.

[Funny Muffins]

That just seem so bizarre Nikoooo...
I recall reading that now but still...

I could see that type of attitude from a really jealous Pegs, but Datu risking his life and the lives of those who saved him over a dead chick who was killed because of Kalani's illness/possum ploy seems too strong. I could see Datu calling them up on accident, or w.e and just being like
"OH YESH WE'RE ALIVE! Here is our address because I am one of the few people who knows it from before the breakout! YEAH WE HAVE ROOM! MICHEAL WOULD LOVE YOU BAD-ASSES!"

But the only problem with this is when would this occur, pre arena? That would require him to call back during the party which I NEVER see happening, I could see Datu sulking somewhere or even drinking into unconsciousness. Datu had kids, he knows what it is to care for others, I just do not see it in him to commit virtual suicide by mauler. He could have seen the future with Sam, I don't see him just giving up HOPE on life that quickly...

(He was a depressive little ****er for a while there though..)

Pegs was on the road when she used that CB radio so was Kellie, so both have learned to use them.

Theory:
If you venture out or monitor those that leave the tower you could understandably understand the concept of CB Radios and their usage of them.
How many of you can use one right now, no hesitation, no learning required?
+1 here

Tommy sure, he could have called but then why?
Bill could have his own CB but I highly doubt that, we haven't learned or may not ever discover something that large.
Kellie doesn't seem one to call up INMATES, I mean PLEASE re-listen to the briefing on the Maulers she was like "JEEZ MIKE WAY TO SCARE THE WOMEN!" obviously she knows what they are like, and it seems like she doesn't want anything to do with them...
Besides your correct, she was first to start throwin chairs during the war.

Anyone who is throwing the first chair is fine in my book...



EDIT: Im actually looking to get a CB for my vehicle now, might prove useful down the road. Family back east uses em, but out here would be fun..

[nikvoodoo]

The problem I have with every other choice except datu is why? Datu is the only one with a reason. All the other options people cling to are characters people just hate. I have yet to hear a convincing reason for anyone else in the tower to do that.

I'm still open if you or anyone wants to convince me, but its going to have to provide a strong reason why. Bizarre or not, my reasoning for datu as the rat makes sense.

[Funny Muffins]

That seems easy enough.
Who would you like me to convince you of?

Kalani is a disliked character that I am trying to save from MOLE STATUS, he may have been part of the reason the Maulers showed up.
However, he did not steal anything from the tower krew. That would be physically impossible as he was away.

He was sober during the party.
He is a pilot and would know directions in relation to certain positions of the sun etc. (Despite what he keeps saying, I feel he should know about Tower2's location at least general direction in relation to LAX.)
He would know how to use a radio.
He would know how to find the radio in the tower, Angel showed him the ready room/guardroom if you will.
He was in the arena before Samantha, he may have come from Hawaii but he may have be removed from a the Maulers as well at some point.

Could he have lied and was actually picked up first by the Maulers and thus was kicked out to be saved by Tower2?
He could have been trying to turn T2 before it was raided by the Zedd, we could discover that him getting close and being useful is his cover...

Unlikely but possible considering the end of the world just occurred and all. We know Skittles was with Kalani at some point because he seemed to recognize him.
(I'm taking this as a sign that Skit actually knows him from Tower2, and is not a few fries short of a happy meal.)

I do not believe that Kalani did it at heart, but if I were to mistrust one character due to his questionable background it would be Kalani over Bill because Bill is confirmed by Datu's existence to be the owner of the building and just an all around ass.
=======
If you are to believe that Datu is responsible for attempting to KILL everyone in the tower I believe you are missing something key.
Even the end of 19-3 should prove my point.
HES A PUSS!
Hes happy when MPK returned, he was stoked to open the gate and he was BALLING OVER HOPE!
That doesn't sound like a man that just tried to throw it all away.

In fact with Liz gone now that might make her slightly more suspicious but the motive is nonexistent...
She love Saul, and seems to respect human life.
Ha!

[nikvoodoo]

That seems easy enough.
Who would you like me to convince you of?

Kalani is a disliked character that I am trying to save from MOLE STATUS, he may have been part of the reason the Maulers showed up.
However, he did not steal anything from the tower krew. That would be physically impossible as he was away.

He was sober during the party.
He is a pilot and would know directions in relation to certain positions of the sun etc. (Despite what he keeps saying, I feel he should know about Tower2's location at least general direction in relation to LAX.)
He would know how to use a radio.
He would know how to find the radio in the tower, Angel showed him the ready room/guardroom if you will.
He was in the arena before Samantha, he may have come from Hawaii but he may have be removed from a the Maulers as well at some point.

Could he have lied and was actually picked up first by the Maulers and thus was kicked out to be saved by Tower2?
He could have been trying to turn T2 before it was raided by the Zedd, we could discover that him getting close and being useful is his cover...

Unlikely but possible considering the end of the world just occurred and all. We know Skittles was with Kalani at some point because he seemed to recognize him.
(I'm taking this as a sign that Skit actually knows him from Tower2, and is not a few fries short of a happy meal.)

I do not believe that Kalani did it at heart, but if I were to mistrust one character due to his questionable background it would be Kalani over Bill because Bill is confirmed by Datu's existence to be the owner of the building and just an all around ass.
=======
If you are to believe that Datu is responsible for attempting to KILL everyone in the tower I believe you are missing something key.
Even the end of 19-3 should prove my point.
HES A PUSS!
Hes happy when MPK returned, he was stoked to open the gate and he was BALLING OVER HOPE!
That doesn't sound like a man that just tried to throw it all away.

In fact with Liz gone now that might make her slightly more suspicious but the motive is nonexistent...
She love Saul, and seems to respect human life.
Ha!

-So because Kalani doesn't like to drink he's the rat? Perhaps he has a medical condition that makes it difficult for him to process alcohol.
-If you've never been to a big city, they can be confusing. If they were beating feet to get away from zombies at the airport, how do you begrudge them not knowing exactly where they are going? NYC is simple enough to figure out once you're above 14th street and the city becomes a grid. L.A. is not set up like that and it's a little more vast and sprawling with many side streets etc. If you're new, it would be very easy to get lost. Especially if you're watching your ass because it's about to get gnawed off.
-Yes he would know how to use a radio, but you're assuming he knew who the Mallers are. If he didn't know, he can't be the traitor. Datu would know where the radio is, is mechanically inclined and could find the Mallers knowing they are out there.
-Yes he could have been a captured Maller. But he also could be a captured Tower2 resident. There's no proof to the contrary, and he hasn't been proven to be a liar about anything else yet.
- Without knowing where Skittles originally came from, there's no way to know for certain why he thinks he recognizes Kalani. I agree Skittles knows him, but does Skittles know him from a mental institution? Was Skittles a member of the other Tower?

And you bring me full circle to my point for Datu: Datu has a motive. He's the only one that has a clear motive that is told in the story. If it comes out later that it was someone else, so be it. But with the information as it stands right now he's the only one that makes sense to me. And Datu did not try to kill everyone in the Tower. My original theory said "Suicide By Maller." He wanted to die. If my theory holds true, he wasn't thinking about the other residents, just himself.

19-3 proves nothing. 19-3 proves that Datu has moved onto the final stages of grieving. Go back and listen to Chapter 13. Tell me that isn't someone who is desperate. Tell me it's someone who hasn't made a radical shift from his normal personality into something different. You can't judge how he is now to how he was then. If that's the case, Kelly is still a bitch, Kalani is still a douche bag, and Pegs still doesn't shoot guns.

[Funny Muffins]

His attitude was in some ways self destructive during 13 yes.
But, he filled the gas cans against his better knowledge, he lowered them down and even did as he was told while he was grieving in respect to Burt and whatnot. 19-3 shows not just that he is in those final stages but that he is going to be looking forward to protecting his last shred of Hope. (Ha)

Because Kalani doesn't drink isn't the only reason he is suspicious, but how would he know about all these Supplies to the east when he is kissing up with Burt, even if he is just guessing he knows more than he is letting on about something. I can't think Datu is the mole because of his behavior, yes he is major depressed and seemly giving up on survival after watching his possible lover being ripped to shreds. Even after this he has the power to run out of the arena, he has to desire even on the brink of mental breakdown to keep pushing forward. Kalani mean while shows up, he is being screamed at by Mike, being told that the new tower has NO WEAPONS/AMMO/FOOD upon arrival. Then he has to deal with the fact that suddenly this new home of his is filled with partying ragoons who don't seem to be taking survival seriously.

I wouldn't take much for him to start looking for a way out either on the CB, or with someone physically like a Bill.

We should agree on atleast 1 thing Nik before we continue.
Was there more than 1 person involved in acting against the Tower? Was the food Bill and the CB call someone else?
I so feel like he woke up inside the arena and decided it was time to take control of his life (playing possum, getting close, then accomplishing his goals...)

[nikvoodoo]

His attitude was in some ways self destructive during 13 yes.
But, he filled the gas cans against his better knowledge, he lowered them down and even did as he was told while he was grieving in respect to Burt and whatnot. 19-3 shows not just that he is in those final stages but that he is going to be looking forward to protecting his last shred of Hope. (Ha)

Because Kalani doesn't drink isn't the only reason he is suspicious, but how would he know about all these Supplies to the east when he is kissing up with Burt, even if he is just guessing he knows more than he is letting on about something. I can't think Datu is the mole because of his behavior, yes he is major depressed and seemly giving up on survival after watching his possible lover being ripped to shreds. Even after this he has the power to run out of the arena, he has to desire even on the brink of mental breakdown to keep pushing forward. Kalani mean while shows up, he is being screamed at by Mike, being told that the new tower has NO WEAPONS/AMMO/FOOD upon arrival. Then he has to deal with the fact that suddenly this new home of his is filled with partying ragoons who don't seem to be taking survival seriously.

I wouldn't take much for him to start looking for a way out either on the CB, or with someone physically like a Bill.

We should agree on atleast 1 thing Nik before we continue.
Was there more than 1 person involved in acting against the Tower? Was the food Bill and the CB call someone else?
I so feel like he woke up inside the arena and decided it was time to take control of his life (playing possum, getting close, then accomplishing his goals...)

Datu filled gas cans yes. He also kept saying their plans weren't going to work.

I will never deny that Kalani's behavior is suspect. It is. 100% there are things about him that don't add up per se. My reaction to Kalani as the traitor is a reaction against people who just out and out hated him. I've always smelled red herring around both Kalani and Kelly because of how they acted in Season 1 and parts of Season 2. I completely understand why they are attractive choices for the Rat. If you took Datu out of the equation for me and made me choose between Kalani or Kelly, I'd choose Kalani.

As for how he could know about supplies to the East, he may have over heard something said in the other Tower. May or may not. Not saying he did, but that could be a reason how he knew. And as for your explanation as to why he would sell out the Tower, it is probably the most solid theory I've heard thus far for Kalani as the traitor.

And just to show you that I'm not entirely blinded by my theory, I'll throw another bone into the pit for the Kalani did it people: We started hating Kalani because he was a worthless lump. Now we like him because he assisted Angel and became a generally Ok guy. Now that we've gone on one roller coaster loop, Kc could send us on another one and turn Kalani once again into the ass hat so many people believe him to be. That would be a great piece of storytelling.

I posted in this massive thread somewhere about the comparison to the original Scream and how I actually had the bad guys figured out and then backed off it because there's never two killers in a slasher flick. So there very well could have been a second person involved. But if there is a second person involved, I wouldn't have the faintest idea who the second person would be (especially since we are all unable to come to a consensus as to who the one person could be). Personally, I'm leaning towards a lone gunman.

The food was obviously Bill. So was the ammo. But that's not the same as selling the Tower out. That was just hoarding for your own survival. I think whomever made the call worked independently of Bill because if the Traitor knew there was a mini stock pile of stuff no one else knew about but the traitor and Bill, they might have held off longer to make the call. Or of course, they could have presented it to their new overlord Durai and be treated like a King.

If you look around the board, I don't tend towards wild speculation. Datu is one of my only out there theories I'm holding onto. And I know the amount of crow I'm lining up to eat if I'm wrong. And when/if we find out who the traitor is, I will line up and take it.....or I'll go back and delete all my posts about it and dispatch the MIB to erase everyone's memory.

Again, I always felt Kalani/Kelly was way too easy to pin it on. I also think it doesn't fit Bill either. So if you eliminate them, it comes down to who would have a motivation to want to see a change. And I landed on Datu.

[yarri]

I am going to say who I think the rat/mole was.. I think it was precious Tommy. He was on watch. I think he was tired of his aunt's crap and acted out.

[Ra1th]

I don't think its so likely that the culprit will be a dead guy, why? same reason i stated before, because that's a terrible finale for the suspense. Tommy's allready dead, no one will care if we find out he's the mole. I'll eat my hat if the mole turns out to be one of the dead, or a random member of the tower.

Another reason tommy couldnt have done it is, that seems like a really petty reason for tommy go to the mallers. Tommy was just a really nice kid, he was an innocent victim of the war, his death weighs down on Michael, he's that constant reminder that war has serious consequences, and making tommy out to be the bad guy would ruin that.

[yarri]

I don't think its so likely that the culprit will be a dead guy, why? same reason i stated before, because that's a terrible finale for the suspense. Tommy's allready dead, no one will care if we find out he's the mole. I'll eat my hat if the mole turns out to be one of the dead, or a random member of the tower.




Another reason tommy couldnt have done it is, that seems like a really petty reason for tommy go to the mallers. Tommy was just a really nice kid, he was an innocent victim of the war, his death weighs down on Michael, he's that constant reminder that war has serious consequences, and making tommy out to be the bad guy would ruin
that.
((Nothing changes it is a terrible reason but a tragic one. He had opportunity and possible motive. Also remember Tommy was accused of theft and multiple members of the tower were down right nasty to him because of it. He was a kid.. Kids make mistakes and believe people who they shouldn't.
Tommy, was a nice kid but he was naivete and as a kid prone to mistakes. Unfortunately if he was the rat.. he wasn't able to survive it and learn from it. Nothing changes about him if he was the rat.. He is still an innocent victim of war and the situation they are in and his death would be worse and by far more tragic. That part doesn't change. But the leader of the Mallers Mr Davri especially Mr Davri (hope I spelled that right) is very charming and has the potential to be very persuasive. It wouldn't be hard to listen to him and let him talk. Tommy as any young boy would vent and receive instant feed back and reassurances. Remember that Tommy was not getting alot of reassurances from his Aunt Kelly who had adopted the Tough Love mode of dealing with Tommy.

(trying to post with quotes is a pain in the tush)

[itsallgoodie]

Now, don't get me wrong, I really like Datu. Sure at first he was a bit annoying and hard to get along with but really after the whole Samantha thing, who couldn't feel bad for him.

But, let me ask you. Could Datu be a snitch...I dont have a whole lot of evidence to back it up, but he has always sort of kept to himself and he is just nice enough to be the kind of guy who wanted to "secure" himself some safety by making deals and what not.

There's my thought. Tear it apart or help me make a point.

[Ra1th]

Now, don't get me wrong, I really like Datu. Sure at first he was a bit annoying and hard to get along with but really after the whole Samantha thing, who couldn't feel bad for him.

But, let me ask you. Could Datu be a snitch...I dont have a whole lot of evidence to back it up, but he has always sort of kept to himself and he is just nice enough to be the kind of guy who wanted to "secure" himself some safety by making deals and what not.

There's my thought. Tear it apart or help me make a point.

tread carefully child, there is a monster round these parts by the name of nikvoodoo, and those who question his datu theory be his prey.

[itsallgoodie]

hmm, I just read what he said and i have to say that is really the point I was trying to make. I support nikvoodoo. He and I are on the same page.

[nikvoodoo]

hmm, I just read what he said and i have to say that is really the point I was trying to make. I support nikvoodoo. He and I are on the same page.
I'm glad to hear it! I don't know if I could take on a tag team against funny muffins and a partner.

Don't worry though, I'm done arguing my point. I've made it, I've defended it, and its now up to kc to prove me right, or serve me my big ol' heaping pile of crow.

[itsallgoodie]

I'm glad to hear it! I don't know if I could take on a tag team against funny muffins and a partner.

Don't worry though, I'm done arguing my point. I've made it, I've defended it, and its now up to kc to prove me right, or serve me my big ol' heaping pile of crow.

fair enough, we will all have to wait and find out. but we will all know soon enough. its great to talk to people about this though. ^_^

[mem]

still leaning towards Kelly. she could be two faced or a plant and sell it all so nicely. I could be wrong too.

[cheesehead1493]

As much as it sucks i still think its Saul, he had previously been to prison, we dont know where but he does kinda hint at Eastern Bay. Im not really sure how he survived his first scouting mission seeing as the radio cut out. He also has always had a radio when the maulers seemed to be the biggest danger. Maybe he knew some of them and then when they caught him on the mission they saved him but made him be a scout. Idk just thoughts

[Wicked Sid]

Saul did not go to Eastern Bay for such a minute crime. As Burt says that place is for the worst of the worst.

[cheesehead1493]

right but mabey Saul didnt tell them everything

[Ra1th]

saul did tell them everything, he was caught for larceny. He wouldnt end up at a state penitentiary for such a crime, like burt said, eastern bay is a place for the worst of the worst. Saul's a brutally honest guy and he cant lie for shit.

[StepLaugh]

It's lizzy, she's the rat!

That's why she got kicked out!!!

[nikvoodoo]

I'm so glad that since funny muffins and I went on a rampage last week, the number of Datu voters has doubled. Come on everyone! Join the dark side!

[WestonWisdom]

Hey, First off, I would just like to say, Hello!(Long time lurker, new poster) and if this is the wrong place for this, just delete it! :), I also apologise if this all has been said before.

Anyway, Angel, Why is he the rat?

Firstly, I want to discuss who he was before the "outbreak" : Angel was a month out of officer camp, probably eager to showcase his newfound command skills in the months after his training, however, the "outbreak" cut his chance to do this short, and he appeared to be in a ill-informed position when they were all called in (he didn't know why they were being called in, only that they needed to go). Also, Angel appeared to be a big supporter of the chain of command, wanting to wait for the commander before taking action to protect himself and Michael and Saul.

Secondly, I want to take a look at his actions during R&R and the War. Angel arrived late to the party, giving him time to go down, contact the maulers and tell them that the party was taking place, and that it would be a good time to attack the tower. Also, Angels decision to wear his uniform, was this to just look stylish? Or was it an attempt to make him recognisable so that the Mallers, most(I also believe that Scratch had a previous relationship with him) who wouldn't have seen him before? During the War, Angel appeared to be holding back, such as suggesting placing the Hummer against the door(an action that would seem logical(conservation of ammo)), but would also serve to keep some mallers alive(Burt would have just kept shooting).

The main motivation for me writing this post has been Chapter 20-1, which I believe showed evidence towards Angel being the rat. Firstly, when discussing the leadership of the tower, Angel appeared to be pretty annoyed that he wasn't even considered, this could be a sign of ongoing resentment towards the leadership of the tower, as I said before, Angel is a great believer in the chain of command, and as Angel outranked Michael before the "outbreak", he could have contacted the Mallers in an attempt to reestablish the chain of command, or as revenge against Micheal. The second piece of evidence in Chapter 20-1 was Angel's willingness to go back to bed rather than deal with the situation, and his excuse was kind of weak "I was exhausted", was he hoping Burt's decision to let Lizzy stay would cause a split in the tower, taking advantage of Michaels absence?

There are probably some things I missed, but I just wanted to write.


Edit : Sorry for the mistake in making a new thread!

[Th3_T3ch]

My vote is on Kalani. His story doesn't add up. He said he landed in LAX, the map clearly shows that the pumping station and the strip mall is in the immediate area, I know we don't know the location of the other tower but it doesn't seem that the mallers would just allow a great place like the other tower go unwanted. Kalani also had guard duty the first day he was there, that gives him ample time to tell the mallers about the tower, the main people of the tower, and the theft. It would also explain why Durai didn't know Pegs. Kalani wouldn't have thought her an importance to the mallers. Kalani could have slipped into the guard room and radioed the mallers that the best option for attack was tonight, he then left the radio on channel 18 when he left. Kalani didn't fight the mallers and when the mallers were defeated he became a brown-noser to try and stay informed about the tower.

To conclude. Kalani is the rat. He is a smart maller. He eventually got scared and started brown-nosing Burt and Angel.

[nikvoodoo]

My vote is on Kalani. His story doesn't add up. He said he landed in LAX, the map clearly shows that the pumping station and the strip mall is in the immediate area, I know we don't know the location of the other tower but it doesn't seem that the mallers would just allow a great place like the other tower go unwanted. Kalani also had guard duty the first day he was there, that gives him ample time to tell the mallers about the tower, the main people of the tower, and the theft. It would also explain why Durai didn't know Pegs. Kalani wouldn't have thought her an importance to the mallers. Kalani could have slipped into the guard room and radioed the mallers that the best option for attack was tonight, he then left the radio on channel 18 when he left. Kalani didn't fight the mallers and when the mallers were defeated he became a brown-noser to try and stay informed about the tower.

To conclude. Kalani is the rat. He is a smart maller. He eventually got scared and started brown-nosing Burt and Angel.

That's a solid theory, but here's my question to you: If Kalani is a maller, why didn't he radio them when he was in Maller territory? When they were in contact with Scratch about Latch's body, why not just shoot Angel and rejoin the rest of his Eastern Bay compatriots? He had a gun and he would certainly have the element of surprise. What is served by continuing to be in the Tower, which has been totally wrecked, and weak? If he was a Maller, the opportunity to turn on the Tower would have been right then when he was close to the Mallers and could easily rejoin.

[WestonWisdom]

That's a solid theory, but here's my question to you: If Kalani is a maller, why didn't he radio them when he was in Maller territory? When they were in contact with Scratch about Latch's body, why not just shoot Angel and rejoin the rest of his Eastern Bay compatriots? He had a gun and he would certainly have the element of surprise. What is served by continuing to be in the Tower, which has been totally wrecked, and weak? If he was a Maller, the opportunity to turn on the Tower would have been right then when he was close to the Mallers and could easily rejoin.

Nik, Perhap Kalani is playing the long game? Devils Advocate.

[nikvoodoo]

Nik, Perhap Kalani is playing the long game? Devils Advocate.

Quite possibly. and that's all I'm doing with NJ's theory. I'm playing devil's advocate and making sure everyone thinks nice and hard ;)

I don't see any benefit to playing a long game if Kalani is a Maller. If you shoot Angel dead, how does anyone even find out? Everyone in the Tower would just assume Angel and Kalani became Z-bait and Kalani goes home.

[WestonWisdom]

Quite possibly. and that's all I'm doing with NJ's theory. I'm playing devil's advocate and making sure everyone thinks nice and hard ;)

I don't see any benefit to playing a long game if Kalani is a Maller. If you shoot Angel dead, how does anyone even find out? Everyone in the Tower would just assume Angel and Kalani became Z-bait and Kalani goes home.

Kalani appears to be clever, at least, thats the the way I have interpreted him from the way he talks, if he foresaw a position where he could deliver the tower to the mallers, I presume he would work towards it?

But I really don't think he is a maller, the fact that he is clever kind of removes him from the Eastern Bay crew(Eastern Bay isn't full of people who cheated on their tax returns). I don't mean to say ex-cons aren't clever, my theory comes from the fact that Kalani's story has always seemed just crazy enough to be true in a zombie apocalypse.

I also presumed that people would probably go looking for them if they didn't come back, at least after Michael returned to power.

[Th3_T3ch]

You ask me why Kalani didn't shoot Angel and radio the Mallers. Well, Kalani is smart, and after the war kalani realized that staying with the tower, at least until the Mallers get back on their...

[nikvoodoo]

I would argue my Datu theory is just as thought out (and admittedly just as many holes), but I'm not in a &quot;rehashing my arguments&quot; state of mind tonight. We can all renew this conversation again...

[Th3_T3ch]

I believe the mole has a strong possibility to be revealed in this chapter and if he/she isn't then I shall refine my theory and write it again.

[nikvoodoo]

I believe the mole has a strong possibility to be revealed in this chapter and if he/she isn't then I shall refine my theory and write it again.

I dunno....now that we've left the Colony (where I thought we could potentially stay until the season break) the revelation of Who's the Rat feels like it could be an excellent way to push us into the off season.

I can certainly see how it could happen in chapter 20 though. Hmm....

[chiefspider]

i went with bill, because he stole all the ammo and food - and was never really trusting. and i know he died fighting for them but maybe because he relized they where gonna kill him to i dunno just a thought, and wtf why would pegs ever betray the tower? she kinda a passifist lol

[MrScott101]

after reading the wiki stuff I have to say it has to have been Bill, as much as I wanted it to be kalani, it's not, it's bill.

[Hellbringer]

I'm on the Bill kick because of that mental patient story that was DVR'ed on the TV. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[mascaria]

I'm on the Bill kick because of that mental patient story that was DVR'ed on the TV. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

What does Bill have to do with the mental hospital?

[nikvoodoo]

What does Bill have to do with the mental hospital?

Ink's real name was Bill Roberts. I think one of two things:

1. Hellbringer is confusing the two Bills.
Or
2. Hellbringer was being funny, but the interwebs obscured the funny.

[Hellbringer]

Ink's real name was Bill Roberts. I think one of two things:

1. Hellbringer is confusing the two Bills.
Or
2. Hellbringer was being funny, but the interwebs obscured the funny.

Yep, it's number one. I had to go to the wiki and look up Bill, and then I had to look up each chapter in the wiki to figure out where I heard the TIVO/DVR part. Of course, after THAT, I found the thread you guys discussed the zombie with the tattoos and how KC said to re-listen to that part for the "aka Ink" bit.
But, I'm still blaming the Tower's Bill for being the rat, but I cannot do it with my old reasoning anymore, so I will have to go with gut feeling on this one.

[nikvoodoo]

Yep, it's number one. I had to go to the wiki and look up Bill, and then I had to look up each chapter in the wiki to figure out where I heard the TIVO/DVR part. Of course, after THAT, I found the thread you guys discussed the zombie with the tattoos and how KC said to re-listen to that part for the "aka Ink" bit.
But, I'm still blaming the Tower's Bill for being the rat, but I cannot do it with my old reasoning anymore, so I will have to go with gut feeling on this one.

The wiki (and quite honestly this thread) will provide you with more than enough ammunition to toss Bill's way. You don't have to go on gut feelings ;)

Check out the Unanswered Questions (http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Unanswered+Questions) section of the wiki. You'll get plenty of reasons why Bill was the Rat there.

[Saint]

I was inclined to think Bill originally - but his whole demeanor centered on going it alone - not interracting much and not being beholden to anyone had me going back and forth on possibilities. If he knew the mallers previously, he was pretty secure in his position and had no reason to reach out to them - if they'd reached out to him or attempted to take control of the tower prior to Michael/Saul/Angel etc. his words on first encounter should have been more "I told you no" rather than "how do I know you're not a zombie" (my paraphrasing). Plus, getting tied in with the mallers puts him in a position of subservience - and he seemed too "solo/nomad" to go that route. The mallers (especially Scratch) seem as good at deriving intel as Michael - so my thoughts veered to Datu: in any encounter he could have given up the farm in discussion without realizing the need for OPSEC. Still, even ignorance on keeping your pie-hole shut doesn't put you in a position of dialing in their CB channel and rolling over for them - so he's out. Kelly was an option b/c I didn't know what kind of lawyer she was - if she was a sleezoid - defender for all the worst criminals - she could have tie-ins and owe favors - might put her near the top of someone who could make dispassionate aliaances and deals. Saul, Burt, Pegs, Lizzy and Riley were non-options in my book. Angel and Michael were options - but I'll save that for another post. Last is Kalani: he makes snap decisions, he's hot tempered and he waffles - sounds like a recipe for making a deal, giving up the goat, then questioning what he'd done and waffling again.

[WestonWisdom]

Bill barely trusted the Tower residents, I really think the Rat is allowing people to think Bill is the Rat to continue his own devious plans.


Who the hell thought it was Burt? The mallers stole his guns, why would he help them take over the tower?

The only reason I think people might think it was Burt is the fact we never heard his rampage amongst the mallers when he dropped down during the War, He could've been down there, Plotting.

[Th3_T3ch]

I don't see Bill as being an option for the Rat. Sure he stole food and guns, but he said sorry for that when he died. I also think that Bill wouldn't have been willing to alert the Mallers and then go help the tower. It just doesn't make sense. My Kalani theory may not give a definite answer but it certainly shows that Kalani's story doesn't add up.

[ObamaCat]

I don't think Bill was the rat. I believe he was saying sorry for stealing the food and other supplies. Plus the unanswered questions make it look too obviously like Bill and I'm inclined to believe KC wouldn't do something so obvious like that.

[MrScott101]

ahh but the wiki is put together by more than just Kc and it does make a pretty good case along with I think it was he who mentioned to check the wiki. Then again Kc could just be throwing us off track with that.

[ObamaCat]

With the twists and turns we've been through already who knows what he's got up his sleeve......

[mascaria]

I edited the wiki page last night to add the Tower-Gate post which gives a pretty indepth analysis of who possibly is the rat.

[mem]

those 7 Datu votes are starting to make me question my vote : (

[nikvoodoo]

those 7 Datu votes are starting to make me question my vote : (

DARN TOOTIN'! Just remember that if we end up reposting this poll.

[Yoyo]

I'm not going to read every page but I believe its bill because he called out for a Sandy. I'm willing to bet Scratch is Sandy and he had a connection to her give up the tower. I'm also willing to bet that he was just going down stairs to possibly help the mallers get in and just died just as fast. As for motivation, he was willing to have Sandy to come up so far as to betray the tower to the mallers. My theory at least. Though, no evidence to support that but however improvable the answer the most likely it is. Or however way you say that super butchered sherlock holms quote.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Crap. I just stared at the list of names and kept reasoning out each character.
Saul: Get the fuck out if you think he is the rat.
Angel: I thought maybe yes, but figure that he is greatly invested in The Tower. Why the hell would he want jump ship? Despite the possibility of some tie between he and Scratch, I don't think it's a friendly one. You can tell he hates that ...witch.
Kelly: She was drunk at the time and having a blast. She may have called the Mallers earlier, especially since Tommy was on duty and she could have bullied the kid into not mentioning shit. Plus she is a lawyer and unless she was a prosecutor I'm willing to bet that she has had relationships with criminals, atleast on a professional level. At the time this all was going on she had a rocky relationship with Michael, but she did support his/Peggs idea of throwing a party which meant that she possibly knew the Tower would be vunerable to attack so she could call her buddies at the mall and tell them to attack...shit! I actually have no reason to say Kelly isn't the mole. Sure, she's been cool as shit lately, but at the time...who knows?
Burt: Stfu, do you really think he has a pact with ol' Scarface?
Bill: Very possible, though he was too uneasy about trusting people in his own building. What makes you think he's going to contact former inmates? He was hording food and ammo, but I think that was for selfish reasons, not to take away from the Towers defense when the Mallers attacked. Plus he went out fighting which says a lot about his stance with the Mallers.
Pegs: Nah. She's just too sweet and adorable to do something underhanded like that. Plus she's numero uno on Scratch's shit list. She called the Mallers on the CB just so she could kill Latch? Yeah, that's an awesome theory. Right up there with Johnson having Kennedy killed just so he could finally be president...
Lizzy: Nope. I don't think she's a fan of being raped. Latch and Scratch seemed to imply that they wanted to enter a brother and sister tag team match with Lizzie. You don't have to be a psychiatrist to figure out how she would feel about that.
Riley: Hmmm. I don't think there has been any motive for Riley to be the rat. Unless she is really that sick of "Peegz"
Datu: Seeing and hearing Samantha torn to shreds really screwed with his mind for a while. He may have tried to drop the A-bomb on the tower by contacting the Mallers, but it's doubtful. It would be a hell of a kick in the gut to learn our sweet little Datu is the mole, but I don't think he is. Things were going rather well for him at the Tower, and he appears to consider the other survivors as his family. Even after the death of Samantha I don't think that Datu would have turned into such a fatalist that he'd betray the Tower.

Then you have people like Steven and Kalani. Kalani is shady and I'm not quite sure where I stand on him being the mole. I lean towards no because he's our pilot. He's going to be the one to fly everyone the fuck out of there, then die. As for Steven, well I'm not sure yet because we've only seen him be an asshole recently. Before this he was just some other survivor. Who knows? Maybe we'll find out he was the bastard that fired the infamous first shot; the shot heard round the tower!

So at this point, I kind hate to say it, but I'm leaning towards Kelly being the mole. She may be carrying the burden of knowing that she was responsible for Tommy's death and that is why we've seen such a major change in her character. That's my guess.

[Hellbringer]

What if... what if it was someone else altogether? This might have been brought up before, but with Stephen and Mary's names just mentioned in chapter 20, and we (well I don't anyways) don't know all the survivors' names. Imagine if it was Billy Murray or Ving Rhames or Sarah Polley. Okay, maybe no one from a previously made zombie movie, but you get my drift... there's still people in the Tower group who we don't know yet.

I still go with "Bill" as my rat, but to me, if he isn't the one (and probably isn't for plot reasons because a dead man can't talk unless he kept a journal) then I toss my vote into one of the Tower's unknown resident.

[nikvoodoo]

So at this point, I kind hate to say it, but I'm leaning towards Kelly being the mole. She may be carrying the burden of knowing that she was responsible for Tommy's death and that is why we've seen such a major change in her character. That's my guess.

I'm just going to bring this up as an explanation that (I don't think) has been mentioned about Kelly's transformation (and I only bring this up because I'm currently relistening to the series). Her transformation into a team player began when she was hunting for the thief. She made good points and even though she was still bitchy, she was doing the right thing.

Also, remember the last interaction she appeared to have with Tommy. She was trying to throw him out of the Tower. That's the last time we heard them talk to each other. It's always that thing you hear people say when talking about loved ones who die suddenly: "I wish I hadn't said this to them before they died", or "I was so angry with them and never told them how I felt" etc etc.

Just throwing that out there.

Also in the relisten that I caught that I haven't seen mentioned: Bill very soundly accuses Michael et al for losing all the ammo. Chapter 12-2 ~15 minute mark. It doesn't sound like he was putting on an act...he sounded legitimately pissed off that things got screwed up that badly.

So here's an interesting question: What if Bill actually didn't steal anything? What if he was framed for being the thief to throw everyone off the Rat's tracks?

[Th3_T3ch]

I seriously don't see Bill as the rat. He only stole food and supplies knowing that Michael would let the tower get infested again. When the war came, Bill realized that the mallers weren't going to let him live so he put in with the Tower and tried to make a stand. He then blew up and said sorry for stealing the food and supplies.

I don't like it when two people post at the same time because this happens, My post is in regards to HellBringers post.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I'm just going to bring this up as an explanation that (I don't think) has been mentioned about Kelly's transformation (and I only bring this up because I'm currently relistening to the series). Her transformation into a team player began when she was hunting for the thief. She made good points and even though she was still bitchy, she was doing the right thing.

Also, remember the last interaction she appeared to have with Tommy. She was trying to throw him out of the Tower. That's the last time we heard them talk to each other. It's always that thing you hear people say when talking about loved ones who die suddenly: "I wish I hadn't said this to them before they died", or "I was so angry with them and never told them how I felt" etc etc.

Just throwing that out there.

Also in the relisten that I caught that I haven't seen mentioned: Bill very soundly accuses Michael et al for losing all the ammo. Chapter 12-2 ~15 minute mark. It doesn't sound like he was putting on an act...he sounded legitimately pissed off that things got screwed up that badly.

So here's an interesting question: What if Bill actually didn't steal anything? What if he was framed for being the thief to throw everyone off the Rat's tracks?

Very good point. Still I think Bill's "I'm sorry." was his apology for hoarding the food & supplies. Plus it would have to be a very, very crafty person that could take the spare key to unlock Datu's locks, turn on the elevator, and move the supplies into Bill's apartment without Bill noticing. You could revise that already pretty cool theory of yours by saying that someone was in league with Bill.

As for Kelly's transformation, I agree that she was starting to change after Michael tossed her out in to the rain. She seemed to want to do the right thing from that point on, even if it meant kicking Tommy out. But in the beginning she was such a sneaky broad that I still believe she could have contacted the Mallers while pretending to support Michaels rules. The death of Tommy may have been the bitch slap she needed to realize "Hey, contacting the Mallers was fucked up. I really should support Michael rather than just pretend to." I dunno. I think it's the fact that she's a lawyer that keeps nagging at my mind. I think she may have had relationships some folks at Eastern Bay. I wanted to say that she may have even been visiting a client at the time of the outbreak, but with Tommy being under her watch that was unlikely. Still, just think for this on a second, What if Durai sent Kelly to the Tower as a mole but under Michaels broken wing she cast off her Maller side and became a 100% Tower devoted survivor?

[Th3_T3ch]

As much as I believe Kalani is the rat, I have to say that Kelly was a shifty character, emphasis on the WAS. Kelly was almost killed in the rain, since then she knew she couldn't make it out there on her own. She might have been in contact with someone from eastern bay if she was that type of lawyer. I don't think she was, I think she was just an attorney that gives advice, she was really picky about the rules.

[nikvoodoo]

Very good point. Still I think Bill's "I'm sorry." was his apology for hoarding the food & supplies. Plus it would have to be a very, very crafty person that could take the spare key to unlock Datu's locks, turn on the elevator, and move the supplies into Bill's apartment without Bill noticing. You could revise that already pretty cool theory of yours by saying that someone was in league with Bill.

The wouldn't have had to turn the elevator on. Datu left the elevator up on Bill's floor and turned off the power. All the person would have to know if the elevator was left up there in order to frame it. Bill's apology could also have been a general apology for being an asshat. Do I necessarily believe that? Nah. Not really. I'm just prompting the conversation.


As for Kelly's transformation, I agree that she was starting to change after Michael tossed her out in to the rain. She seemed to want to do the right thing from that point on, even if it meant kicking Tommy out. But in the beginning she was such a sneaky broad that I still believe she could have contacted the Mallers while pretending to support Michaels rules. The death of Tommy may have been the bitch slap she needed to realize "Hey, contacting the Mallers was fucked up. I really should support Michael rather than just pretend to." I dunno. I think it's the fact that she's a lawyer that keeps nagging at my mind. I think she may have had relationships some folks at Eastern Bay. I wanted to say that she may have even been visiting a client at the time of the outbreak, but with Tommy being under her watch that was unlikely. Still, just think for this on a second, What if Durai sent Kelly to the Tower as a mole but under Michaels broken wing she cast off her Maller side and became a 100% Tower devoted survivor?

Kelly wasn't at the office with a client at the time of the outbreak. She was with Tommy and his sister at her home. Tommy's mother dropped them off to Kelly. The other issue with Kelly being sent in as a Mole in the manner you were suggesting is that Durai would have to know about the Tower's existence within the first 3 days of the outbreak.

But you are correct. The crux of the "Kelly did it" argument is that if she was the rat, the death of Tommy would send her into a guilty tail spin. Now it's up to Kc to make the case for one of us to laugh at everyone else for the rest of time. :p

[iheartkc]

pegs is harmless, and whiny as hell

Exactly why I voted for Pegs (well, the harmless part). I think she could have been led astray by voices on the radio (cause she tends to assume others are harmless, too) purporting to be good but they were actually the evil mallers. ALSO it would make excellent tension between Michael & Pegs when she has to tell him it was her fault and then he'll have to struggle with forgiveness and all that. I know there are some holes, but its just a theory. Forgive me if somebody's already suggested it.

[Ra1th]

Exactly why I voted for Pegs (well, the harmless part). I think she could have been led astray by voices on the radio (cause she tends to assume others are harmless, too) purporting to be good but they were actually were the evil mallers. ALSO it would make excellent tension between Michael & Pegs when she has to tell him it was her fault and then he'll have to struggle with forgiveness and all that. I know there are some holes, but its just a theory. Forgive me if somebody's already suggested it.

it has been suggested, and the reason it fails is because pegs would not be able to keep up the lie. it's very possible she was lead astray by the voices on the radio, but we saw what happened to her when she killed latch. she was dying of guilt until his body was returned. exactly what would happen if she was the reason the whole war happened int hte first place? she's die of guilt. and the other thing is, Pegs cant lie. If pegs was the mole, then this whole time she's kept up this amazing facade saying she's innocent. Which Pegs is not capable of doing. she's way too honest. so no, it cant be pegs, if you want more detail, there's an article called towergate on the front page explaining who it could be and who it couldnt be

[iheartkc]

Great theory, Adogg.

[nikvoodoo]

Great theory, Adogg.

If you're going to compliment someone's theory, please quote it in your response. Especially in epic threads such as this one, its impossible to know what you are responding to. thanks!

[yarri]

saul did tell them everything, he was caught for larceny. He wouldnt end up at a state penitentiary for such a crime, like burt said, eastern bay is a place for the worst of the worst. Saul's a brutally honest guy and he cant lie for shit.

:D Thank you!!!

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Red Shirt Red Shirt Red Shirt Red Shirt...
nuff said!

[Th3_T3ch]

Why is Bill winning? This is soooo not cool. Who still believes that load of bull? I can't believe that Bill would steal food AND guns, but come down to help the people he tried to screw over. It doesn't make sense.

[nikvoodoo]

Why is Bill winning? This is soooo not cool. Who still believes that load of bull? I can't believe that Bill would steal food AND guns, but come down to help the people he tried to screw over. It doesn't make sense.

People can't change their vote, and Bill is the person presented in the story as the traitor. Makes sense that he'd get the most votes

[kafu288]

I think it was Angel. Like it was pointed out in the we're dead podcast, how did Scratch know Angel's name? I agree that there is probably some sort of relationship in between the two in the past based on that.

[nikvoodoo]

OK everyone, Chapter 20 has come and gone with no revelation as to Who's the Rat. This thread is outta control and sooooo very very long. It is time to retire it, and lets hold ourselves a re-vote with all the new information we've gathered, and argued about over the last 2 months on here.