The State of Boston

[Litmaster]

Hi Guys,

I was in Boston today, around the area of Government Center, mostly. There were a lot of guns on the street: police presence on every block.
Same with Mass General Hospital. I chatted with a few people; we are all hoping for the same thing: that the bastard(s) get caught.

Every local station has been running news of the event since it happened. Even sports stations in town aren't running sports talk; many are referring to it as a 'mini-911'. It is just good to see the well-wishing from so many around the country and world.

Lit

[Osiris]

I'm sorry, what? Mini-9/11? Full of themselves much? It's terrible, sure. No question about it. But it is nowhere near the magnitude. Nowhere. Referring to it as such does nothing be belittle the memory.

[scbubba]

Hi Guys,

I was in Boston today, around the area of Government Center, mostly. There were a lot of guns on the street: police presence on every block.
Same with Mass General Hospital. I chatted with a few people; we are all hoping for the same thing: that the bastard(s) get caught.

Every local station has been running news of the event since it happened. Even sports stations in town aren't running sports talk; many are referring to it as a 'mini-911'. It is just good to see the well-wishing from so many around the country and world.

Lit

Thanks for the update, Lit.

Glad that you and yours are doing ok. Our prayers are with the people of Boston.

[Litmaster]

I'm sorry, what? Mini-9/11? Full of themselves much? It's terrible, sure. No question about it. But it is nowhere near the magnitude. Nowhere. Referring to it as such does nothing be belittle the memory.


Yeah, I agree with you, that it could have been worse in terms of body count and overall impact. But tell that to the guy who lost his 8 year old son, with his wife and daughter in critical care right now.

[turbo]

Did you hear from your colleagues Lit?

[Litmaster]

Did you hear from your colleagues Lit?

Yeah. They all finished before or after, but that's not really significant. I remember when 9/11 happened, I was in Chicago at the time, and it was such a time of bonding, a time of unity, where we were going around the city and felt like encouraging everyone, trying to support everyone that we met. This actually felt quite similar.

There has been many stories surfacing of the actions of those at the time of the event. Worst are those who took the opportunity to loot merchandise from nearby stores. Next are those who, understandably, ran for cover with their loved ones. But best of all are those who ran towards the blasts, thinking only to help those that were injured. Some were Boston PD and firefighters, but several others were just volunteers, ordinary civilians who stepped up in the time of need. I'm sure it made many of us think: if this kind of thing were to happen nearby, how would we act? Which way would we run???

[LiamKerrington]

I am glad that the responses to this attack are mostly the same in the US and most parts of the world. Terror is terror. The comparison with 9/11 was one of the first sentences in German news. And although the scope of 9/11 and the Boston Bombing are very different, the core is the same: an unexpected event to raise terror in the hearts of people and to destabilize (civilized) societies by establishing more police-state-regulations on the one hand and distrust and suspiciousness between the people and peoples on the other.

Currently speculations involve terrorists coming from either islamic states, simply insane guys, or - and that makes me wonder a bit - radical US-citizens which could be malcontent with the US-government ... But guess what? I don't care, who did this. I simply wonder how people can do things like this. This is hilarious, mad, a feat of cowards, inhuman, selfish and terrible. And I really hope for the best for the ones in pain right now.

All the best!
Liam

[Litmaster]

EDITED at 6:58 EST by Litmaster, inc:

Ok, so after I posted my last speculative pictures of possible suspects, the FBI later today released the actual photos:

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2013/04/18/boston_marathon_bomb_suspects_video_620x465.jpg

Er, sorry to the guys I falsely accused. :o In my defense, I come from a Puritan ancestry, many of whom never allowed a little bit of factual evidence to get in the way of a good ol' fashioned witch hunt! :mad:

http://sector7studio.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/20130301-155344.jpg

[LiamKerrington]

What drives me mad is that there is no confessor yet.
Compared with other terror-attacks, in which about one or two days after the event the attackers claim their misdeeds, this time no one asks for the spotlight. This is strange.

edit - *snip*

All the best!
Liam

[Litmaster]

If this dude you marked on the picture is the guy or one of the guys, then my next questions are these:
Who is the dude in the blue sports-jacket with the bag hanging on his left side (left picture)

Yeah, I heard about that on the radio today. That guy is a track runner from Randolph High School, I think, who wrote a big thing on his Facebook page that he was NOT the bomber. He had even sent in some of his own pictures of the event to the FBI. I think he showed up at the courthouse today to clear the air, is what they were saying on the radio.

What the real FBI photos clearly show was that this was a 2 man job. I really, Really, REALLY want them to catch these guys. I don't even want sentencing or life in prison or even the death penalty. I say just brand their motherfucking foreheads with a big 'G' for GUILTY, let them loose in Copley Square, then tell them if they can make it across the Charles into Cambridge, they can go free.

Me and Sully will take care of the rest... :mad:

[Litmaster]

Here is a closer image of one of the dirtbagmotherfuckingscumbuckets:

http://images.scribblelive.com/2013/4/18/2c9cd985-653d-4bff-8ce6-bdb0d8eabbbf_500.jpg

[Osiris]

Don't make me come in here again, yous guys.

[Litmaster]

The Bruins game was freaking electric last night. The whole crowd was singing the national anthem. Basically a big 'FUCK YOU' to all who would terrorize we Americans.

The 2-team salute at the end of the game was classy:
http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/c0/5c/c05c58476fb696709f8da44a37cce016.jpg?itok=ChQmCXAn

[Litmaster]

Osi, come on. You still pissed about the comparative body count? If it makes you feel better, I was more affected by 9-11, and I don't even like New York.

This is bigger than just one city. When someone threatens our way of life, we should all band together. These guys have gotta fry.

[nikvoodoo]

The Bruins game was freaking electric last night. The whole crowd was singing the national anthem. Basically a big 'FUCK YOU' to all who would terrorize we Americans.

The 2-team salute at the end of the game was classy:
http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/c0/5c/c05c58476fb696709f8da44a37cce016.jpg?itok=ChQmCXAn

I did appreciate the dual salute. It was solid.

I'm not going to lie....I saw Patrick Kaletta (he's the dude in white that's on Boston's (black) side of center) and all I could think was god help you if you use this moment to be a scuzz bucket. I would demand the Sabres release him immediately.

He probably had to be told.

[Osiris]

Not pissed at all. In fact, didn't even enter my mind since yesterday. My own life got in the way of foreign affairs.

[Litmaster]

Admittedly, Bostonians can be quite provincial. We're similar to New Yorkers in that sense.

I'm not so sure about the rest of the country: do people from LA really identify themselves as 'LA-ers'? Or Californians? Around here, it's that you're from Southie, then from Boston, then you're a Masshole, then you're a New Englander. That's the mindset of a lot of people who live here.

I don't think this is a good thing. The problem with drawing your circle of concern around a certain group of people but not others is that you exclude those outside of that circle. And that exclusion itself creates conflict.

For me, I think we are all human beings first, then secondarily we are from our respective countries, then provinces, then cities, then towns, etc. But in the end we are all human beings and we need to take care of each other. I appreciate all those who seek to further our way of life, and improve the state of humanity in general.

[LiamKerrington]

Here is a closer image of one of the dirtbagmotherfuckingscumbuckets:

http://images.scribblelive.com/2013/4/18/2c9cd985-653d-4bff-8ce6-bdb0d8eabbbf_500.jpg

They are just suspects (yet). So how about keeping the emotions low. I agree with you that who ever did this has to face justice. But in my opinion it should be real justice, like legal justice, not emotional. Tossing around sweet insults does not help anyone, but it only fuels irrational anger ...

All the best!
Liam

[Litmaster]

They are just suspects (yet). So how about keeping the emotions low. I agree with you that who ever did this has to face justice. But in my opinion it should be real justice, like legal justice, not emotional. Tossing around sweet insults does not help anyone, but it only fuels irrational anger ...

All the best!
Liam


Well, these sweet innocent little darlings help up a 7-Eleven last night, carjacked a Mercedes, shot an MIT cop, and got in a huge firefight with the police. I'd pretty much call that an admission of guilt. The younger bastard has been identified and, of this writing, is at large in the Cambridge/Watertown area:

The Associated Press reports that the two Boston Marathon bominb suspects in photos released last night have been identified. One is dead; the other is Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, 19, a resident of Cambridge, Mass. who immigrated legally to the United States.

They are Chechen. Here's a photo of the fucker from VKontakte, which is basically Russian Facebook:
http://a.yfrog.com/img859/5884/me1yu.jpg


Now what was that you were you saying about irrational anger?

[LiamKerrington]

Now what was that you were you saying about irrational anger?

Any anger is irrational, because it is emotional.
Although they might be criminals in general, that does not automtically make them bombing terrorists, just because it is the way it seems or people might share certain opinions ... Currently they are "suspects" - neither darlings nor assholes, just suspects.
And that is the way I look at it.
And I simply ask you, too, to keep calm. You and anyone should be glad and feel a huge relief that FBI and other public authorities are damn effing quick in finding suspects and dealing with the situation accordingly. It would be a lot worse, if there were no suspects at all at the moment and people would start blaming anyone because he or she looks weird or behaves crazy or just because...
But because there are suspects, that does not automatically mean they are "free for all" - neither for beatings with words nor with even more harmfull beatings ... Public authorities deal with them; and the public, which includes you, should discuss things, draw conclusions from it and simply act accordingly without stepping back into medieval times where suspects were meant to proof for God's existence and face challenges they naturally could not pass.

As funny as it may seem (put a G on their forehead and let them move through certain areas of the town, and if they survive this, they are free to go), things like this are simply no ground for any discussion or wellbeing of any society.

Now, regardless of this: Thank you for providing more information. If this guy really is a Chechen, what was the purpose behind the bombing, if he is involved in it? And who else was or is involved?

All the best!
Liam

[Witch_Doctor]

I am glad that the responses to this attack are mostly the same in the US and most parts of the world. Terror is terror. The comparison with 9/11 was one of the first sentences in German news. And although the scope of 9/11 and the Boston Bombing are very different, the core is the same: an unexpected event to raise terror in the hearts of people and to destabilize (civilized) societies by establishing more police-state-regulations on the one hand and distrust and suspiciousness between the people and peoples on the other.

Currently speculations involve terrorists coming from either islamic states, simply insane guys, or - and that makes me wonder a bit - radical US-citizens which could be malcontent with the US-government ... But guess what? I don't care, who did this. I simply wonder how people can do things like this. This is hilarious, mad, a feat of cowards, inhuman, selfish and terrible. And I really hope for the best for the ones in pain right now.

All the best!
Liam

As always, you provide a well tempered perspective.
All of the best to you, Sir.

[turbo]

Any anger is irrational, because it is emotional.
Although they might be criminals in general, that does not automtically make them bombing terrorists, just because it is the way it seems or people might share certain opinions ... Currently they are "suspects" - neither darlings nor assholes, just suspects.
And that is the way I look at it.
And I simply ask you, too, to keep calm. You and anyone should be glad and feel a huge relief that FBI and other public authorities are damn effing quick in finding suspects and dealing with the situation accordingly. It would be a lot worse, if there were no suspects at all at the moment and people would start blaming anyone because he or she looks weird or behaves crazy or just because...
But because there are suspects, that does not automatically mean they are "free for all" - neither for beatings with words nor with even more harmfull beatings ... Public authorities deal with them; and the public, which includes you, should discuss things, draw conclusions from it and simply act accordingly without stepping back into medieval times where suspects were meant to proof for God's existence and face challenges they naturally could not pass.

As funny as it may seem (put a G on their forehead and let them move through certain areas of the town, and if they survive this, they are free to go), things like this are simply no ground for any discussion or wellbeing of any society.

Now, regardless of this: Thank you for providing more information. If this guy really is a Chechen, what was the purpose behind the bombing, if he is involved in it? And who else was or is involved?

All the best!
Liam

I did hear on the interview with the uncle that when he had last spoken with the older brother he was looking into Islam. This was direct words from the uncle, not a news outlet. So that can explain some of it maybe?

[scbubba]

News outlets are reporting that police said the older brother, the suspect that was killed in the chase/firefight last night, was wearing an explosive device and carrying a triggering mechanism.

Doesn't necessarily make him a Boston Marathon bomber but it fits him in the "bad guy looking to kill people" category pretty well.

As for anger, I would rather someone express their anger in words than in actions generally. Emotions in and of themselves are not bad. how a person acts when feeling a particular emotion is the determination on good/bad.

Very hard for people, in Boston and in other areas, not to feel emotions after something like this.

Respectfully,
Bubba

[Litmaster]

Any anger is irrational, because it is emotional.
Although they might be criminals in general, that does not automtically make them bombing terrorists, just because it is the way it seems or people might share certain opinions ... Currently they are "suspects" - neither darlings nor assholes, just suspects.
And that is the way I look at it.

Are you serious? They were involved in a huge firefight with police last night, and were throwing grenades out the windows at the cops! And you say they are "neither darlings nor assholes"??? What do they have to do-- shoot you in the face-- before you finally decide to pass judgment?


And I simply ask you, too, to keep calm. You and anyone should be glad and feel a huge relief that FBI and other public authorities are damn effing quick in finding suspects and dealing with the situation accordingly. It would be a lot worse, if there were no suspects at all at the moment and people would start blaming anyone because he or she looks weird or behaves crazy or just because...

You're missing the point: they have already I.D.'d these guys. We know their names. Their age. We have several pictures. We know their address. Where they went to school. The only ones getting 'blamed' in this case ARE THE GUYS WHO ARE GUILTY!


But because there are suspects, that does not automatically mean they are "free for all" - neither for beatings with words nor with even more harmfull beatings ... Public authorities deal with them; and the public, which includes you, should discuss things, draw conclusions from it and simply act accordingly without stepping back into medieval times where suspects were meant to proof for God's existence and face challenges they naturally could not pass.

Liam, we aren't in a courtroom, and I am free to think or say anything I wish about what kind of people these guys are. If you want to be diplomatic about it and not speak ill of your fellow humans, that's your prerogative, but in my opinion these guys have lost any protection, regard, or rights the moment they devised the plan to set off those bombs.


As funny as it may seem (put a G on their forehead and let them move through certain areas of the town, and if they survive this, they are free to go), things like this are simply no ground for any discussion or wellbeing of any society.

Here I disagree. I don't want a single penny of my tax dollars going to keeping this guy in prison, alive, for the rest of his pathetic life. That's more than he deserves. I want him dead: slowly and painfully. If you don't agree, that's fine, but it doesn't make you right.

Besides, it isn't going to come to that: this guy at large is mostly likely going out in a blaze of glory, either at the hands of police bullets or through his own explosion. The question is who else is going to die in trying to apprehend him. I hope to God no one.

[LiamKerrington]

Litmaster: It's cool.

I am and was serious about what I wrote earlier. Our dispute here leads nowhere. And I am not interested in limiting freedom of speech of anyone. But I feel very compelled if someone, who is a suspect and who is the primary target of the investigation, is already blamed as the one being guilty and called sucker, fucker, d-bag, a$$h0le or what ever other insult one might toss into their direction.

In all honesty: I feel a lot of sorrow for the victims and Boston-folks in general as much as I feel a deep hatred for people being capable of doing shit like this bombing. But I also simply accept the fact that there is police doing, and there is the public and the media participating in all the investigations against whoever did this; and I am also willing to accept the simple (legal) fact that it is a court which will decide about the level of guilt and the proper sentencing for the criminal actions. I am glad that there seems to be kind of a hot lead towards suspects being mentioned in the public media. But pointing at those (still they are: ) people, "chasing the pig through the village" (as we say in Germany), and literally vituperating suspects by calling them with the full scope of the urban dictionary-insults does not serve the situation in any way. Neither does it help you nor does it support the investigation.

But this is just my little, humble opinion. And I see and acknowledge that you and I won't agree about the proper individual reaction to the suspects.

Besides: Tossing around granades in a chase and gun-fight with the police maybe makes it more likely that this particular suspect might have been involved in the Boston-bombing; but still there is only the accusation (at best) without any solid proof made public yet. Ergo: the (already dead) suspect remains that: a suspect, nothing more, nothing less. Call him an asshole, if you like; I won't join into this taunt, because it is sense- and very, very, very meaningless after all.

All the best!
Liam

[LiamKerrington]

You're missing the point: they have already I.D.'d these guys. We know their names. Their age. We have several pictures. We know their address. Where they went to school. The only ones getting 'blamed' in this case ARE THE GUYS WHO ARE GUILTY!

Still only a suspect; the judge or jury or both in the court will decide about the guilt.


Here I disagree. I don't want a single penny of my tax dollars going to keeping this guy in prison, alive, for the rest of his pathetic life. That's more than he deserves. I want him dead: slowly and painfully. If you don't agree, that's fine, but it doesn't make you right.

If you disagree, then quicken the policework and courtsession by hunting down the suspect yourself and put an end to his life. This saves the police and the court a lot of tax-money ... But don't be surprised if the public response won't be the Medal of Honor, but a death-sentence against you ...

(Ok, I did it. I got into the argument again ...)

But now imagine: Imagine the probably or maybe very small likelyhood that this guy may be a criminal, but there is no evidence that he was involved in the Boston bombing. What then? Just imagine ...

Edit: Whatever your response might be, I am out of this discussion. I am sorry that I got involved into this discussion, and I am not interested in fueling more flames in this forum. Am still hoping for the best for the Boston-ites. /edit.

All the best!
Liam

[Litmaster]

If you disagree, then quicken the policework and courtsession by hunting down the suspect yourself and put an end to his life. This saves the police and the court a lot of tax-money ... But don't be surprised if the public response won't be the Medal of Honor, but a death-sentence against you ...

(Ok, I did it. I got into the argument again ...)

But now imagine: Imagine the probably or maybe very small likelyhood that this guy may be a criminal, but there is no evidence that he was involved in the Boston bombing. What then? Just imagine ...

Liam, it's fine. I'm not upset, and I'm not arguing. Ordinarily, I would totally agree with you-- 'Innocent Until Proven Guilty' and all that. But here there is just such an overwhelming amount of evidence that these are in fact the guys in question, the odds of it simply being an innocent look-alike of the terrorist is truly astronomical. I'm not advocating that the police simply shoot him down on sight. He should be apprehended, then brought to a full and fair trial. However, IF found guilty, then I wish him to be killed. I don't see how that is so unreasonable.


But again, like I said, it's not going to come to that. I'd be really surprised if this guy lives out the day, because I don't think he will just surrender at this point.

[LiamKerrington]

hi there,

Lit: It's cool. And I am sorry. I certainly added my share to this argument.

Having listened to the latest news here in Germany I am much better informed. And, yes, the clues and available information about the remaining guy are quite convincing. We will see, what's going to happen next. If he has the same attitude as his late brother, it may be very unlikely that FBI or police will get him alive.

The news also mentioned a third guy being in custody; but about that one there is no information available yet. Do you know anything about him?

All the best!
Liam

[LiamKerrington]

Good news. You got the suspect ... Am hoping for the best. Congratulations!
This very outstanding investigation was kind of extraordinary and very effective.

Now I keep my fingers crossed that you got all of them, and no one else is on the loose; I also hope that there won't be copycat criminals/ terrorists ...

All the best!
Liam

[turbo]

That I believe is one of the scariest things that could happen after the whole ordeal, copycats. It could throw off the whole investigation. But it is amazing that they were able to capture him.

In my opinion, I believe he wasn't ready to die. He is very young and I think his brother started most of it and got him in way over his head. If he was the same terrorists we all see on the news, I don't think it would have ended the way it did.

Congrats to the Boston PD though, glad their people can somewhat rest now.

[Litmaster]

Yeah, I'm afraid the unprecedented news coverage and world-wide attention just gave ideas to every disenfranchised halfwit who wants to grab some attention.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Yeah, I'm afraid the unprecedented news coverage and world-wide attention just gave ideas to every disenfranchised halfwit who wants to grab some attention.

My condolences to the victims of the Boston marathon bombings.

Regarding the media: obviously, they did the best they could to give the terrorists a forum. I sometimes get the impression that the media's main focus is to increase their viewing figures - especially by creating a hysteria. Repeating endlessly the same sequences of the bombing attack will lead to what? Nothing good eventually. I hope that we do not have to find out any time soon.

[scbubba]

My condolences to the victims of the Boston marathon bombings.

Regarding the media: obviously, they did the best they could to give the terrorists a forum. I sometimes get the impression that the media's main focus is to increase their viewing figures - especially by creating a hysteria. Repeating endlessly the same sequences of the bombing attack will lead to what? Nothing good eventually. I hope that we do not have to find out any time soon.

<cynicism>
That's exactly what the media's main focus is. All the time. Media is a business and it makes money on viewer/reader/contributor numbers. So, the focus is on the things that get those numbers up.

I believe that there are individuals in the media (reporters, journalists, photogs, etc) who are not as focused on the $$$ all the time, but they also have to "sell" or they can't make a living in the profession.

So, right now the majority of the population wants to know about these guys and their motives and methods. So that'll be the lead stories for a while. Not because it serves a greater good but because it serves the bottom line.
<\cynicism>

[Solanine]

This is obviously a terrible occurrence but it raises some interesting questions such as how can a city be shut down like that because two armed criminals are on the run?
Thirty eight people were shot dead the day of the Boston Marathon in completely unrelated cases.

How is it that society can be so hardened against individual killings like that and yet so terrified by the Boston case?

How many deaths are acceptable in order to preserve questionable civil rights?

Why is the right to guns so important when the American government violates many other rights through the banning of many foreign goods and recreational substances?

I don't expect any answers, just reflection on what this means for society outside of the tragic deaths and injuries caused.

[Robzombie]

Because my only source of news is not American, i also read that on that same day that 20+ bombs went off in Iraq killing 31 or more people and injuring hundreds. Not saying anything is right or wrong but to see 100% of the attention to Boston and really nothing on anything else makes me upset to realise that truly to many people, that some 'type' of people seem to have so much more worth or value, as judged by the air time given. But there are terrible things happening everywhere yet when its closer to home its understandable to get more attention.

[Litmaster]

Because my only source of news is not American, i also read that on that same day that 20+ bombs went off in Iraq killing 31 or more people and injuring hundreds. Not saying anything is right or wrong but to see 100% of the attention to Boston and really nothing on anything else makes me upset to realise that truly to many people, that some 'type' of people seem to have so much more worth or value, as judged by the air time given. But there are terrible things happening everywhere yet when its closer to home its understandable to get more attention.

I saw the same. Looking at body count, we lost very few compared to Iraqis. So one human life is worth more than another? That didn't sit right with me, either.

[Witch_Doctor]

This is obviously a terrible occurrence but it raises some interesting questions such as how can a city be shut down like that because two armed criminals are on the run?
Thirty eight people were shot dead the day of the Boston Marathon in completely unrelated cases.

How is it that society can be so hardened against individual killings like that and yet so terrified by the Boston case?

How many deaths are acceptable in order to preserve questionable civil rights?

Why is the right to guns so important when the American government violates many other rights through the banning of many foreign goods and recreational substances?

I don't expect any answers, just reflection on what this means for society outside of the tragic deaths and injuries caused.

From a pragmatic point of view, the danger posed by the two bombers was indiscriminate, thus a threat to anyone at random. The 38 people shot dead took place nation wide and were probably not random acts of violence intent on killing or maiming indiscriminately. Locking down the city served a number of purposes, including preventing large gatherings that would become targets, limiting the number of people on the streets, thus increasing the chances of spotting suspects trying to leave... and any number of reasons that would make a manhunt for terrorists different from a man hunt for criminals such as perpetrators of crimes of passion, robberies, violent confrontations, etc...

[Solanine]

People die at random all the time. It could be me or one of thousands of other people that will be hit by a bus tomorrow. It doesn't mean I'm afraid to cross the street.
And surely by closing down the city, giving into the fear, they win. During the Blitz in britain we got the crap bombed out of us at night.
In the morning people would go to work and get on with their lives. In fact signs began to appear on people doors and in their gardens saying "Business as usual".

[Solanine]

So witch Doctor whats the diagnosis, will you prescribe a spoonful of stiff upper lip?

[LiamKerrington]

From a pragmatic point of view, the danger posed by the two bombers was indiscriminate, thus a threat to anyone at random. The 38 people shot dead took place nation wide and were probably not random acts of violence intent on killing or maiming indiscriminately. Locking down the city served a number of purposes, including preventing large gatherings that would become targets, limiting the number of people on the streets, thus increasing the chances of spotting suspects trying to leave... and any number of reasons that would make a manhunt for terrorists different from a man hunt for criminals such as perpetrators of crimes of passion, robberies, violent confrontations, etc...

Lathough I understand the rational behind the means used and although I am glad that the measures taken made sure that the suspect (and soon convict-to-be) was captured, and although I do not want to question the police work in this particular case, I still have a couple of questions which cannot be answered:

a) What, if the police work was focussed on someone else who was not the suspect after all, but the media would have 'blamed' him and disclosed his private life to the public in a similar way like what did happen to this Bosten-bombing-brother? His life would have been destroyed ...
b) Since there are other major assaults going on in other places (even in the US), why does the police not deploy tousands of men to capture other criminals doing serious crimes (murder, rape, other serious shit) in the same way? Or will this special case be the first in a row of future police-work activities?
c) I wonder if something comparable would be possible in any other Western democratic nation? I mean, consider this: Do you remember the shit from Norway, when this madman Breivik bombed a city and slaughtered dozens of children in a holiday camp? The police did not close down any city-part for a day or something ... Ok, simply, because Breivik was not hiding or shit ... But even then I guess things would not have come close to what has happened in Boston; the terrorist bombings of Madrid and London many years ago are better examples for what I try to tell you ...

All in all: Does the outcome of this manhunt justify the means? And what did happen to US-citizens who did not follow ht order of the curfew?

Anyway: I am glad Mr Tsarneav is caught and that he seems to cooperate now; this makes things a lot easier. But I wonder what will happen if he does not get the sentencing some people may think he has "deserved" himself ... :/

Living for a better world and wishing all of you all the best!
Liam

[Witch_Doctor]

People die at random all the time. It could be me or one of thousands of other people that will be hit by a bus tomorrow. It doesn't mean I'm afraid to cross the street.
And surely by closing down the city, giving into the fear, they win. During the Blitz in britain we got the crap bombed out of us at night.
In the morning people would go to work and get on with their lives. In fact signs began to appear on people doors and in their gardens saying "Business as usual".


So witch Doctor whats the diagnosis, will you prescribe a spoonful of stiff upper lip?

Again, pragmatically speaking, closing down the city wasn't done solely to keep the public safe out of fear but to also give the authorities a better chance at catching the perpetrators. The fewer people on the street would mean fewer crowds for the bombers to hide in.

Here is another way of looking at it;
You have a couple of moral options:
1) Cower and hide. Or...
2) Be brave and don't allow fear to change your life.

At the same time...

You have pragmatic (strategic and tactical) options:
A) Man hunt within an active city. Or...
B) Man hunt within a inactive city.
Both set of options are ways of dealing with the situation but you make make better choices when the options are from the same set. That is, choose between 1 & 2 (Moral), or choose between A & B (Practical).


Lathough I understand the rational behind the means used and although I am glad that the measures taken made sure that the suspect (and soon convict-to-be) was captured, and although I do not want to question the police work in this particular case, I still have a couple of questions which cannot be answered:

a) What, if the police work was focussed on someone else who was not the suspect after all, but the media would have 'blamed' him and disclosed his private life to the public in a similar way like what did happen to this Bosten-bombing-brother? His life would have been destroyed ...
b) Since there are other major assaults going on in other places (even in the US), why does the police not deploy tousands of men to capture other criminals doing serious crimes (murder, rape, other serious shit) in the same way? Or will this special case be the first in a row of future police-work activities?
c) I wonder if something comparable would be possible in any other Western democratic nation? I mean, consider this: Do you remember the shit from Norway, when this madman Breivik bombed a city and slaughtered dozens of children in a holiday camp? The police did not close down any city-part for a day or something ... Ok, simply, because Breivik was not hiding or shit ... But even then I guess things would not have come close to what has happened in Boston; the terrorist bombings of Madrid and London many years ago are better examples for what I try to tell you ...

All in all: Does the outcome of this manhunt justify the means? And what did happen to US-citizens who did not follow ht order of the curfew?

Anyway: I am glad Mr Tsarneav is caught and that he seems to cooperate now; this makes things a lot easier. But I wonder what will happen if he does not get the sentencing some people may think he has "deserved" himself ... :/

Living for a better world and wishing all of you all the best!
Liam

As far as using the same tactics for other crimes, there are plenty of factors that would not make it practical or effective. In the Bombing, there were a lot of resources used because the public-at-large was in danger and suspects were relatively quickly identified. The same amount of resources, witnesses (electronic and personal) are not likely to be available for most other crimes. Few people are going to rape, rob and steal around so many potential witnesses. And lastly, the approach taken by Boston PD and the FBI is not the only effective one, as you pointed out, and it is not even a sustainable choice either. It is likely that if the bombers were not captured soon that the city would have returned to it's normal level of activity. Since the bombers were captured as quickly as they were, it is likely that they were suspected to have still been in the city.

[Solanine]

And the money lost by shutting down a city? They wouldn't even of found the culprit before he'd died if a guy hadn't broken the curfew.
The fact is that so far we've been beaten by the terrorists. We cower in fear where there should be a show of defiance.
Lets just be glad that isolated criminals like these cannot, by definition, exact a large scale terror campaign.
We might see every city in the US shut down.

Just thinking about how come Americans are willing to give up the right to even leave their houses or even swiss cheese but not the right to firearms?
It seems a little absurd. For a long time Scottish Whisky was banned. Whats the point of hanging onto your gun if you give up the freedom to a wee dram in return?

[Witch_Doctor]

And the money lost by shutting down a city? They wouldn't even of found the culprit before he'd died if a guy hadn't broken the curfew.
The fact is that so far we've been beaten by the terrorists. We cower in fear where there should be a show of defiance.
Lets just be glad that isolated criminals like these cannot, by definition, exact a large scale terror campaign.
We might see every city in the US shut down.

Just thinking about how come Americans are willing to give up the right to even leave their houses or even swiss cheese but not the right to firearms?
It seems a little absurd. For a long time Scottish Whisky was banned. Whats the point of hanging onto your gun if you give up the freedom to a wee dram in return?



Shutting down the city is more analogous to pulling over to the side of the road so that police can respond to an accident, as opposed to making all drivers park their cars in their garages because driving cars can lead to auto accidents.

It's more likely that shutting down the city was a better option for that specific incident of terrorism. They were able to capitalize on the info and resources available to them at that time. Other situations and locations might be different, so that what was done in Boston would have not been effective.

Had the terrorists not been captured or killed they could have, according to the survivor, killed even more people in Times Square in New York City, as that was their plan.



And the money lost by shutting down a city? They wouldn't even of found the culprit before he'd died if a guy hadn't broken the curfew.
The fact is that so far we've been beaten by the terrorists. We cower in fear where there should be a show of defiance.


Terrorism is too strictly defined by its root word, terror. We must remember that the actual violence does serious harm too. I would like to think that I would show courage by standing up to an attacker wielding a baseball bat, but not at the expense of standing tall and getting whacked on the head. :failzombieglomp:

[Litmaster]

This is obviously a terrible occurrence but it raises some interesting questions such as how can a city be shut down like that because two armed criminals are on the run?

That's easy: because the media picked up the story and ran with it. Terrorists on the loose is far more sexy, media-wise, than a lone rapist or murderer.



And what did happen to US-citizens who did not follow the order of the curfew?

Nothing happens to them. I was there for the 'Shelter in Place' directive, and yet there were still many people on the streets of Boston, doing as they pleased. This is not a police state, Liam. The government doesn't wield as much power as you seem to assume.

[Solanine]

Shutting down the city is more analogous to pulling over to the side of the road so that police can respond to an accident, as opposed to making all drivers park their cars in their garages because driving cars can lead to auto accidents.

It's more likely that shutting down the city was a better option for that specific incident of terrorism. They were able to capitalize on the info and resources available to them at that time. Other situations and locations might be different, so that what was done in Boston would have not been effective.

Had the terrorists not been captured or killed they could have, according to the survivor, killed even more people in Times Square in New York City, as that was their plan.




Terrorism is too strictly defined by its root word, terror. We must remember that the actual violence does serious harm too. I would like to think that I would show courage by standing up to an attacker wielding a baseball bat, but not at the expense of standing tall and getting whacked on the head. :failzombieglomp:

Not really. Its more like shutting down a major motorway for a few hundred miles to catch one drunk driver.

[Witch_Doctor]

Not really. Its more like shutting down a major motorway for a few hundred miles to catch one drunk driver.

YES! YES! That's absolutely right!

[Solanine]

Instead of just dropping stingers? I'm sure in hindsight there is probably a more efficient way of doing it but its over now.
The bombers have been caught and we might even get some answers in the future.