Today's the day ...

[LiamKerrington]

Hi everyone,

today I received important mail regarding my final exam. The examination office has admitted me to the final exams in late January 2013 ...
Now things get much more serious over here.

I just let you know about this as an explanation in order to inform you that I will be off for the next a little more then two months - just in case you would wonder otherwise ... ;)

So, happy Thanksgiving to you guys from the US (and anywhere else where thanksgiving is important), enjoy the nearing ending of WA season 3 and see you in February 2013 again ... Aye, and Merry X-Mess and a Happy New Year!

All the best!
Liam

[scbubba]

Hi everyone,

today I received important mail regarding my final exam. The examination office has admitted me to the final exams in late January 2013 ...
Now things get much more serious over here.

I just let you know about this as an explanation in order to inform you that I will be off for the next a little more then two months - just in case you would wonder otherwise ... ;)

So, happy Thanksgiving to you guys from the US (and anywhere else where thanksgiving is important), enjoy the nearing ending of WA season 3 and see you in February 2013 again ... Aye, and Merry X-Mess and a Happy New Year!

All the best!
Liam

Best of luck, good sir. I hope you knock it out of the park.

Happy holidays and we'll keep the zombies out of the tower while you are gone.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi everyone,

part one is done. Today I put a lot of effort into the sixth of six written exams. Some time in May or June I will be informed about the results; and if something good's grace is on me then the results will be fair enough that I will be allowed to join into the frail of a final oral exam in June which would conclude my studies. Just wish me some luck.

Funny thing: Although I decided to skip this forum for a while, it kept me busy and I was pretty eager to get my opinions online a lot more then I expected it to happen. Well ... Anyway! Thanks for your support. Wish you well and see you around.

Now I just need a ton of sleep. Or two tons ...

All the best!
Liam

[reaper239]

so what were the exams for? high school, entrance exam, acadamy graduation? you're a really smart dude, and more importantly than actually knowing things is you can think critically, which is worlds more important than being able to spew back facts. no doubts you did great.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

http://i1.cpcache.com/product/477290646/funny_lawyer_mug.jpg?color=NA&height=460&width=460

Things are moving in the right direction, hm, Liam?

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there,


so what were the exams for? high school, entrance exam, acadamy graduation? you're a really smart dude, and more importantly than actually knowing things is you can think critically, which is worlds more important than being able to spew back facts. no doubts you did great.

wow, thank you. That's very kind of you, reaper239.
I am a student of law here in Germany. And the written exam as well as the oral exam in June conclude the studies, which would make it an acadamy graduation (I think). This would make me a lawyer "first degree", if you like. With that I wouldn't be allowed to become a lawyer, actually, 'cause I would be considered only half a lawyer, if you like.
Instead I would have to pass two more years of legal clerkship which would be concluded with just another final exam. As of now I am not sure, if I want to do this. Since I am born in '76 and the time is running away like crazy, I actually think about considering my studies as finished in June this year, and I would like to get into a position as a legal consultant or adviser or stuff ... In fact I will hand in my applications by the end of february at various companies and I will look into what's going to be the result of this. If this is going to be too frustrating, I will reconsider the legal clerkship as the next step.
But, as we say in Germany: "You shall not honor the day before the eve", thus I will (have to) wait for the results of the written exams; this will help me decide things. The frustrating thing here in Germany with successfully passing the legal studies is that the number of candidates utterly failing is huge on a regular basis; so ... Not sure what to think of my future so far ... And yet ... I feel very good about what has happened during the last two weeks; and I feel like a heavy burden has fallen off me ...


2405

Things are moving in the right direction, hm, Liam?

Yep - at least, if I consider my efforts and attempts in my written exams as "moving in the right direction". Now things are to be decided by others - people which don't know me, and which I do not know. For them I am just a number - which would be candidate 5032-13. And they will have to decide, whether or not candidate 5032-13 passed the written exams. It is very frustrating to know that only two of the six written exams need to be passed successfully, and they have to amount to at least 21 'points' together, which seems to be a very low score considering the possible total of 180 in six perfect written exams; the frustrating part is that it is very hard to get more then 5 or 6 points with a single written exam (with 4 being the mark to having have scored successfully), which in return means that you actually have to pass three to four written exams of the six in order to pass the magic threshold of 21 ... The more I think of it, the more mad and crazy it drives me ... This system in Germany is well thought through - and crazy ...

All the best!
Liam

[reaper239]

so what do the exams consist of? my guess is there isn't a lot of multiple choice, but i can't quite imagine what kind of exam you would be taking. is it like essay questions, or do you have to, like, write up mock briefs, or... i don't know, other lawyer-y things?

[scbubba]

Liam,
congrats on getting through this part. I'm sure the waiting is gonna seem like an eternity but it will pass by....
Here's hoping that you did indeed pass this examination portion of your journey (I have a feeling you probably did) and that, regardless of what comes next, you're gonna tackle it with the same critical thought and hard work that you have so far.

Peace!

[LiamKerrington]

so what do the exams consist of? my guess is there isn't a lot of multiple choice, but i can't quite imagine what kind of exam you would be taking. is it like essay questions, or do you have to, like, write up mock briefs, or... i don't know, other lawyer-y things?

Mh. The written exams cover the three major branches of German law - public law (2 written exams), criminal law (1 written exam), and civil law (3 written exams). About 98% of the tasks in written exams look like this: the candidate gets a case with several different legal complications; then you have 5 hours time to fully understand the case, translate it into and compare it with written law, and in the end you need to come to a conclusion. This ends up with approximately 25-30 pages of hand-written text - think of it being an essay in a very "special" way of language, which would be best translated into English as "legal expertise", if you like. In general the cases and complications are based on "real" cases which were decided by the different high courts (Federal High Court, Federal Constitutional Court, Federal Adiministrative Court, European Court of Justice, Federal Labor Court) in Germany over the last 50 years; sometimes the cases are about new questions which were not decided yet. In the end it is not so important what exact result you have analyzed for yourself; more important is that you show you have undesrtood the principles and systematics of the different legal systems of coded law, and that you argue with the legal understanding of the coded law and not with common sense or none-legal arguments.
The other 2% of tasks may be small essays on certain legal questions for the candidate to prove a certain broad or general understanding of all things legal ...

The cases are challenging, since the time for working on each case is very, very short; 5 hours pass so quickly ... Really, in only one of the six exams I have finished my work - and that was about 5 minutes before the time was over; in three of the cases I forced some bad spelling through my pen and tried to press as much information in as little time and words as possible ... Crazy, I tell you.

If you are interested, in the PS you'll find the cases of my written exams during the last two weeks. I have abbreviated them a lot; and for the sake of simplicity I have left out several details which are/ were important for the case. Be advized: the answer to each of the cases is not as obvious as it seems on first sight ...

All the best!
Liam

P.S.:

#1 - civil law case - A car driver (Mr X) has to avoid another one (Mr D-Bag) who has violated several traffic rules. This evasive maneuver leads to damages on the car which is possessed by a rent-a-car-service; the car-owner wants money for the damges. Also the evading car driver kills a dog and hurts a second dog which both are owned by an old lady who was out for a walk with her dogs. She suffers heavy depressions due to the loss of the first dog (a German Dackel), while she insists on having her second dog (a cheap breed) to be treated by a vet; all in all her damages sum up to a lot of money. Now Mr X wants to know if he can claim all the money from Mr D-Bag, Mr X had/ has to pay to the car owner and the dog-loving grandma.

#2 - civil law case - Guy One sells his flat to Guy Two; they agree that after the ownership of the flat has changed, Guy Two will have some repairs be done by craftsmen and that the bill for those works are to be paid by Guy One. When they have officially signed the contract they come to agree on a second trade: Guy One sells an expensive and huge bookcase to Guy Two; but they agree that Guy Two has a week time to decide if he wants to step back from the contract. A few days later Guy Two meets the spout of Guy One and tells her that he does not want to buy the bookcase, but the spout forgets to inform her mate Guy One about it. When Guy Two gets into his new flat he is surprised to find the bookcase in the flat. Since the bookcase is in the flat the work of the craftsmen cannot start, which is why the bill for the craftsmen rises. Later Guy Two realizes that the flat is much more clairaudient then he expected it to be; instead of giving Guy One the chance to take care of it, Guy One invites craftsmen to solve the issue.
The questions in this case were, if Guy Two can claim all the additional costs he had from Guy One.

#3 - civil law case - Stupid S puts his laptop and laptop-case on a chair on a fair; it gets stolen. Finder F finds the case without the laptop, delivers it to the finder's office; and half a year later the office transfers ownership to F, because none claimed the case as his. Five months later S meets F in a bookstore and recognizes "his" case; then he grabs it and does not give it back to F.
Questions were: Who is the real owner of the case? And if the case is brought to court, how would the court decide, if a) F claims to get back the case with S not responding with own rights, and b) F claims to get back the case with S asking the court to rule him as the legal owner of the case?

#4 - criminal law - The three brothers A, B, C are notorious criminals who simply did small burglaries, thefts etc. One day they decide to kidnap the rich son S in order to extort half a million from his parents; they hide im in a nearby forest. One day before the exchange the forest burns down, and with it S dies.
Frustrated that the kidnapping and extortion went bad A, B, C linger around; they see a former school-mate X, who is hated by the three of them. They force him into a back-alley and start beating him up; they get more and more brutal; to the surprise of B and C A gets into a blood frenzy and kills X.
Shocked by this B runs away, followed by C and then by A; B is frightened that A might turn against him and C, while C already realized that A is not as mad; but C holds a grudge against A, which is why he insinuates to kill A to B. Then B turns around and stabs the surprised A who dies from the wounding.
In what way B and C have violated criminal law.

#5 - public law - The horse owner O has to go to jail. He owns 15 horses, but he does not care for the animals. Then the public authorities learn about the bad situation the animals were in, which is why a private group of horse-friends take care of the animals and address the public authorities to pay their bills; this the public authorities do. Then, a few days later the public authorities write a letter to the jailed O and tell him that he has to take care of the animals; and if he does not do so within the next two weeks, they would sell the animals. O did not respond and did not take any action. 2 1/2 months later the public authorities start a public auction and sell all the horses. O is furious and wants his horses back. What can he claim from the public authorities? And can he force the public authorities to return the ownership of the horses back to him with the new owners not accepting such a move?

#6 - public law - Soccer is a violent game, especially regarding the fans. The city of H establishes an edict which forbids fans to wear fan-articles and -clothing while visiting sport-events, because they believe that clothing supports violence. The fan F want this edict to be canceled by court. Will he be successfull?
The police in the city of H learn that certain fans from another soccer-team of another city will visit the city of H in six weeks, when their team is the guest against the city's team. That's why the police writes letters to several known hooligans and tell them: If you break law, we will inform the drivers' licence authorities about your deeds, and they will have to consider the cancellation of your driving licences. The hooligan G thinks this treatment by the police is not legal, which is why I wants this to be canceled by a court-decision.
Since the violence in stadiums is getting out of control, the police forbids the owner of the stadium in the city of H to sell tickets to the fans from guest-teams. The losses for the stadium-owner are about 50.000 per match. He wants to know if the police may prohibit the selling of tickets to fans from the outside.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there,


Liam,
congrats on getting through this part. I'm sure the waiting is gonna seem like an eternity but it will pass by....
Here's hoping that you did indeed pass this examination portion of your journey (I have a feeling you probably did) and that, regardless of what comes next, you're gonna tackle it with the same critical thought and hard work that you have so far.

Peace!

thank you very much. That is very kind of you. Where ever this journey brings me and how ever hard this waiting will become ... I will get passed it. Too many downs in my life so far; it couldn't get much worse by now ... ;) And I will try to keep up with your expectiations. :D

Peace and all the best!
Liam

[Osiris]

I don't know who you are or what this thread is about . . . but I am here to tell you that I saw the title, and clicked on the thread.

[LiamKerrington]

I don't know who you are or what this thread is about . . . but I am here to tell you that I saw the title, and clicked on the thread.

And I thank you for clicking it.

All the best!
Liam

[LiamKerrington]

*resurrect thread from the dead*

Hi everyone,

hot news: Today I received a letter from the examination office confirming that I 'passed' the written part of the final exams. Therefore I am 2/3 through the final exams. Now I need to prepare for and run the oral exams which will take place some time between the beginning of and more or less likely mid June. About the exact date I am not informed yet.

Now, what does this mean. Especially since the results of the written exam is not as I expected to be, the situation has become quite tight for me. Therefore I will abandon my activities on this forum up until mid to the end of June. I am in dire need of focus, therefore I will even force myself not even to participate in the Reptrivia ...

For all of you I wish you a nice spring- and early summer-time. I wish you all the best, and I will get in touch with you again later, after things have passed - with whatever result ...

Best wishes!
Liam

[turbo]

Best of luck Liam!

[scbubba]

Good luck, Liam! See you on the other side....

[Witch_Doctor]

A Law student! Ah ha! So that's why you have such wonderful critical thinking skills. We're gonna miss having you around in the forum, but we're all rooting for you. Good luck, Liam.

All the best to you, Sir.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Good luck, Liam. I will keep my fingers crossed. See you hopefully at the end of June.

[Cabbage Patch]

Good luck Liam! We'll keep the Forum going, but it's going to be less fun without you. Just be sure you're back in time for Season 4!

[LiamKerrington]

Thank you so much for the heads up. Your 'support' is much appreciated. I will keep you updated and will return right before season #4 gets started ...

Best wishes!
Liam

[Solanine]

Congratulations.

People hate me for saying this but I actually quite enjoy exams. The feeling of release afterwards is hugely gratifying.

Good luck with the last third.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there.


Congratulations.

People hate me for saying this but I actually quite enjoy exams. The feeling of release afterwards is hugely gratifying.

Good luck with the last third.

Thank you so much. This may sound weird: I appreciate exams of whatever kind and like to do them; I am kind of cool about stuff like that. But considering the results of the written exams, which were below my personal goals and expectations, I feel kind of ... inferior ... and challenged with regards to my confidence; now the day of the actual final step is just ahead ... In two weeks plus X days I will have to test my skills, and hopefully I get along well enough ... Considering the very small number of people failing in the oral exams I shouldn't be bothered, but I am nevertheless ... Ah, heck. I keep you updated ...

Best wishes!
Liam

[scbubba]

Best of luck, Liam!

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Hi there.



Thank you so much. This may sound weird: I appreciate exams of whatever kind and like to do them; I am kind of cool about stuff like that. But considering the results of the written exams, which were below my personal goals and expectations, I feel kind of ... inferior ... and challenged with regards to my confidence; now the day of the actual final step is just ahead ... In two weeks plus X days I will have to test my skills, and hopefully I get along well enough ... Considering the very small number of people failing in the oral exams I shouldn't be bothered, but I am nevertheless ... Ah, heck. I keep you updated ...

Best wishes!
Liam

Just do it, Liam.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSpx92Xoukk

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there,

I told you I keep you updated. Up until 11th or 12th of June I promise not to post anything anymore ... Reason: On 11th June I will have my oral exam. Today I received the notice of meeting, which also tells me the names of the three lawyers and legal scientists who will test me and four more examinees ... Therefore the uncertainty about "when exactly" has ended, and the stress-level has reached a new level ...

I hope all of you are doin' fine ...

All the best!
Liam

[Witch_Doctor]

Doing great. Hope the same for you. Glad to see things are moving ahead. Breath, relax and and you'll do well. Good Luck and keep us posted.

[Solanine]

Let me take this opportunity to wish you luck one last time then.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi.

It's done. I'm done. In other words: Good news! Cheers! I did it ...

Considering the long journey my studies took me it is fair to say that this amazing song perfectly wraps it up:


http://youtu.be/dqBlIyFcjXs

Now I need some rest.

Best wishes!
Liam

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Hi.

It's done. I'm done. In other words: Good news! Cheers! I did it ...

Considering the long journey my studies took me it is fair to say that this amazing song perfectly wraps it up:


http://youtu.be/dqBlIyFcjXs

Now I need some rest.

Best wishes!
Liam

Good news, man, <Irony>a good video, too, consindering that you have been studying since 1971.</Irony>. Sorry, could not resist. So, what is next? Maybe you are even going to apply for his current job (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_de_Maizi%C3%A8re).

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

You have come a long, way, bro.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub747pprmJ8

[LiamKerrington]

Cheers everyone,

yeah, thank you, YABC, for sharing this kind of awesome video. I think it comes close to the long way and time I needed for this "journey". Now, almost two days after the oral exam I start to realize what has happened. And I am so glad that I was actually able to, er, 'confirm' or 'acknowledge' the confidence or credit which was shown to me in advance - especially by my parents and close friends how helped me in my situation. This was a rough and ardous ride - with many set-backs and times of doubt and even regret. Yesterday I listened to Sinatra's song again and I paid a lot more attention to the lyrics; and I must say that there is a lot of truth in it - much more then I expected actually; this makes the choice to link it here perfect*. And I think I will sign my business cards with the one core line of his song: "I did it my way." I would like to use the lines about "what is a man etc.", but this would be way too long for a business-card, wouldn't it?

But, alas, business cards, the final exams, the ending of my studies ... Still things are at the very beginning. The next steps would be to get a job, a two year long legal clerk-ship, or establish an own business - or maybe even all three things all together. Up until a few days and weeks there was no certainty, about what would be my situation right from the seconed half of the day of June 11th, because everything depended on success or failure in the oral exams. But now, after having passed the final tests, there are kind of solid ideas growing and allowing me to gain some self-confidence and more importantly guidance based on my proven skills for things to come. And that feels good, and gets even better the more reality sinks in minute by minute.

Thank you. All of you. For wishing me luck, keeping your fingers crossed. It feels very, very good to have people, no FRIENDS scattered all over the world (with most of you being from the US) simply supporting me this way. That makes borders vanish and realize how close we stay together. This is precious and unbelievably impressive. Thank you again. You are awesome!

Wish you all the best. I will return to the forum-discussions in a few days again and will even start with creating Reptrivia-quizzes because there are so many question I would like to ask you ...

Liam
aka
Clem Carlos (my real first name)

* When I planned to write about the result of my oral exams I originally thought about linking this video:


http://youtu.be/wvJiYrRcfQo

But somehow it does not really suit the situation, does it?

[LiamKerrington]

Good news, man, <Irony>a good video, too, consindering that you have been studying since 1971.</Irony>. Sorry, could not resist. So, what is next? Maybe you are even going to apply for his current job (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_de_Maizi%C3%A8re).

Yeah, the job description is kind of ... let me pu it this way: interesting. But a position like this is kind of an ejector suit; just imagine how many ministers of defense we had during the last 10 years; this makes the job very uninteresting. So I will consider this job as kind of a last ressort if everything else fails ... ;)

[scbubba]

Hey Liam, just catching up after being gone for a little while.

CONGRATUATIONS!!!

Way to go, my friend. Your way, my way, any way - You Did It!

I was glad to read all the news here. Thanks for keeping us updated.

Now good luck on the next beginning too!

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Yeah, the job description is kind of ... let me pu it this way: interesting. But a position like this is kind of an ejector suit; just imagine how many ministers of defense we had during the last 10 years; this makes the job very uninteresting. So I will consider this job as kind of a last ressort if everything else fails ... ;)

Please just do not end like this, Liam.

http://cenblog.org/just-another-electron-pusher/files/2010/07/ask-the-lawyer-by-santheo.jpg

[LiamKerrington]

Please just do not end like this, Liam.

http://cenblog.org/just-another-electron-pusher/files/2010/07/ask-the-lawyer-by-santheo.jpg

Ok, THAT would be the last ressort, not the position as the minister for defense ...

[Solanine]

Congratulations Liam, Well done. If I ever get sued in Germany I know who to turn too.