Are the Zees already starving?

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Hi, good evening from Germany!

The question of the day is: Are the zombies already starving in WA? In particular, are they getting more anxious each day because there is fewer fresh flesh to chew out by each passing day? Yeah, we all somehow like our little Zees, but, as Al Gore would put it, there is an inconvenient truth to be told. So I did some research on the internet.

For this reason, I went to a Calories calculator (http://caloriecount.about.com/cc/calories-burned.php). For an ordinary male zombie, aged 30, six feet tall and an assumed high activity rate due to


At home - you are very active with heavy lifting and other rigorous activities // E.g. hunting down humans
Exercise - you participate in physical sports such as jogging or mountain-biking each day // (Going on a vacation trip to Boulder?)


it states that Mr. Z. will roughly need about 3000 calories each day. I say that this is a rather conservative assumption, but I may be horribly wrong.

The calculator states:
You burn 2970 calories during a typical day. Remember that this estimate is based on your body weight, height, age, gender, and your average level of activity.

You can use this information to help you figure out how many calories you should be consuming to maintain your weight. On active days, you'll need more calories, so it's okay to eat a little more than you would on an average day. But on more sedentary days, you may want to reduce your calorie intake. If you want to lose weight, try to stay below your calorie needs or increase your activity level. However, make sure you are eating nutritious meals and not restricting your calories too much - eating too little or losing weight rapidly can be unhealthy and dangerous.

Ok, without other information, the statement is meaningless. So I continued to google for the amount of calories in one pound of human flesh. And this is what I found: One pound = 1800 calories. (http://caloriecount.about.com/cc/calories-burned.php?metric=0&calculate=1&gender=male&age=30&weight=160&feet=6&inches=0&cm=&activity_level=4&x=58&y=10)

However, if you reconsider that most of the humans corpses seem to be already rotten or devoured by zombies (the still living prisoners left aside), when will the zombies begin to starve. There have been no reports or whatsoever on zombie cannibalism. Will we be able to rid of the Z-plague just by letting enough time go by? What are your thoughts?

YABC out.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi.

Funny thoughts.

As we know from various reports ...
a) them zeds seem to starve, as Pegs recognized in "Over the Airwaves",
b) the number zed-incidents (i.e. encounters with Regulars) is decreasing with the ongoing show - not only because of the winter, but also because there is another cause: lack of food; the decrease actually started pretty early on the show,
c) as Riley and Angel whitnessed them zeds gathered food; and since the number of dead bodies is not infinite, the "natural" ressources are limited as well;
d) finally Skittles mentioned that them zeds would even eat themselves; so, since the number of zeds (compared with the size of LA's population and working masses) never was so big, you can do the maths, right? ;)

Thus: The threat of zeehs is decreasing due to starvation of them zeehs ... except for the Little Ones, the latest evolutionary step in the zombie-breed ...

All the best!
Liam

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

So we are moving towards a situation which resembles the first act of the film "28 weeks later" where there are no zombies left in the country?

[LiamKerrington]

No clue. Haven't watched 28 weeks later.

But the way it is in WA, it all makes sense. That's what I like so much about this show. It all makes sense.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

So this is the TODO list for Michael as the Zees will die of starvation:

- survive Fort Irwin
- find out more about Pegs fate
- return to L.A. and put an end to the maller's threat
- get a shower, put on some new clothes
- continue your studies

That's about it for season 4? :D

[Cabbage Patch]

So we are moving towards a situation which resembles the first act of the film "28 weeks later" where there are no zombies left in the country?

I think you may be on to something.

We've had repeated references to how scarce the zombies have become. Victor and Saul commented on it around the time they saw the Army helicopter. Michael mentioned it when they were testing the KODI in Yermo. And we know that Datu and Hope didn't mention any zombie encounters when they were discussing their trip from Boulder to Fort Irwin.

Maybe the standard zombies were only intended to be a transitional type, with the Inklings serving as their successors. And their numbers were low for a reason, to prevent them from outgrowing their food supply in LA. After all, it only takes one.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

I would like to add the following theory: There might be even more human colonies left on U.S. soil. I mean, just think of it, human flesh is a rare good, the Zees have no way to conserve the flesh. The best strategy would be to let some of the human encampments exist. As the LO seem to be able to command the zombie infantry somehow, they could have the dumb standard zombie attack the humans if necessary. It would be a win-win situation, the number of standard zombies is reducted by the human defenses while the timeframe within human flesh is available is significantly extended.

The question is, what if these resources are gone, too?

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there,

interesting idea.

About LO commanding Regulars ... Really? That slipped my attention. IF Little Ones remains some of their former-life-knowledge and IF they are capable of controlling their behaviour (the Boulder-event challenges the second IF at least ...), would they also be capable of reflecting on theories regarding benefit, win-win-situations etc.? I doubt that.
As far as I remember the "Smart Ones" and "Ink" were the ones people (Burt, Skittles) kept talking about that they seem to act more purposely and kind of more strategically (this whole Devil's Workshop- and Arena-Thing ...). And yet Ink and dudes swarmed any place with remaining survivors as hard and as heavy as possible. At the end of The War we encountered it once only that them zeds actually retreated - and not, because they planned to "farm the humans" as kind of a food-ressource, but more likely because the battle was far from being victorious in favor of the zeds ...

Besides all of this: The concept of Zeds "farming humans" as food-ressource is kind of ... Oscar Michael Foxtrott Golf - really creepy, dystopian at its best and very frightening ...

All the best!
Liam

[Witch_Doctor]

As the LO seem to be able to command the zombie infantry somehow, they could have the dumb standard zombie attack the humans if necessary. It would be a win-win situation, the number of standard zombies is reducted by the human defenses while the timeframe within human flesh is available is significantly extended.
The question is, what if these resources are gone, too?

Now, I may be wrong but I don't remember any instances of LO and Inklings giving commands but there are plenty of instances of Ink and maybe other Smart Ones doing so. Remember Randy keeping the other Zs away from Tanya? As far as regulating food consumption, in Chapter 10 part 1, something calls the Zs to the human remains pile for meal time. Something then calls them away (To stop eating?/ to the arena?/Both?)

What gets me is that we're back to the question of what makes them eat some yet turn others?


Are turners slippery MoFos who got away?
Why don't they continue to eat the turners? - Maybe be the time they turn they're too strong and aggressive to eat. Best leave them alone. Could be why they avoid the Large Ones.
Do the Smart One regulate consumption/ turning? - Too few Zs and they are easily wiped out. Too many Zs and they consume all of their resources at their own peril. - Someone said that Zombie stories are never about zombies but are a commentary about society. Looks like KC is worried about conservation :D

[Witch_Doctor]

Osiris Cliffs version:

Zs eat all of their food now and starve tomorrow - like grass hopper.
Zs save some food later, eat later - like ant.
:D

[Osiris]

Osiris Cliffs version:

What gets me is that we're back to the question of what makes them eat some yet turn others?

Are turners slippery MoFos who got away?
Why don't they continue to eat the turners? - Maybe be the time they turn they're too strong and aggressive to eat. Best leave them alone. Could be why they avoid the Large Ones.
Do the Smart One regulate consumption/ turning? - Too few Zs and they are easily wiped out. Too many Zs and they consume all of their resources at their own peril. - Someone said that Zombie stories are never about zombies but are a commentary about society. Looks like KC is worried about conservation :D

Gonna need cliffs on those cliffs, bro.

[Witch_Doctor]

So this is the TODO list for Michael as the Zees will die of starvation:

- survive Fort Irwin
- find out more about Pegs fate
- return to L.A. and put an end to the maller's threat
- get a shower, put on some new clothes
- continue your studies

That's about it for season 4? :D
You left out the Lady and the Mr. Whiskers rescue.

By the way, YetAnotherBloodyCheek, why does your avatar show a Bloody Hand? Been meaning to ask.

[Witch_Doctor]

Gonna need cliffs on those cliffs, bro.

Go back one page.

[Witch_Doctor]

Gonna need cliffs on those cliffs, bro.

Eat - starve - die. Problem solved.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there!



What gets me is that we're back to the question of what makes them eat some yet turn others?


Are turners slippery MoFos who got away?
Why don't they continue to eat the turners? - Maybe be the time they turn they're too strong and aggressive to eat. Best leave them alone. Could be why they avoid the Large Ones.
Do the Smart One regulate consumption/ turning? - Too few Zs and they are easily wiped out. Too many Zs and they consume all of their resources at their own peril. - Someone said that Zombie stories are never about zombies but are a commentary about society. Looks like KC is worried about conservation :D


Very good questions.

Q1: No. I think they are just bloody lucky not being eaten, but 'surviving' and turning ...
Q2: Zombies (in WA) not only attack and swarm-feast upon their poor victims. When it all started it was like wounding any living human nearby by attacking each one they could get their hands and mouths on; they attacked in a frenzy and probably in order to kill; but they didn' t double-check the deaths of their victims, because they simply cared more about the other remaining living humans around <edit> and theyprobably did not know how to check the deaths of their victims</edit>. In other cases we had the still not finally solved puzzle around the ones being captured and brought into the arena ... (arguable; just my 2c).
Q3: I guess they do; and I guess they also take care about setting up traps and commanding their minions.

All the best!
Liam

[Witch_Doctor]

Setting traps and driving cars takes some reasoning abilities. Why would they attack regular humans? Of course they could still reason and look at people as a food source. My dogs would trick each other into abandoning the others treats. One would pretend to want to go out side and when I opened the door the dog with the treat would leave it in the house. The dog that 'pretended' to want to go outside would then pick up the abandoned treat.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

You left out the Lady and the Mr. Whiskers rescue.

By the way, YetAnotherBloodyCheek, why does your avatar show a Bloody Hand? Been meaning to ask.

Good question, WD. I had to undergo a jaw surgery earlier this year due to a genetic defect. My lower jaw was cut at several positions, overall shortened and fixated while my upper jaw was shattered surgically, extended and reassembled. No the favorite four hours of my life. Besides the blood I lost during the surgery, I continued to spit blood over the next 24 hours. While I was dozing, blood flowed out of my mouth - so I always had a bloody cheek.

And no matter what I did - I always had that blood on my hand, hence the picture.

[LiamKerrington]

... Why would they attack regular humans? Of course they could still reason and look at people as a food source. ...

Maybe they consider humans as food; or it is something like a hormon-issue; maybe the zeeh-factor simply activates the animalistic instinct of competition and survival thus making zeehs attack humans; maybe something different ...
No matter what the source of attacking the humans is, zeehs in WA were humans; and humans belong to the kind of living beings that are capable of digesting plants and living beings alike. Therefore it does not strike me as too odd that them zeehs attack humans AND eat them. More interesting is the question, what happens with animals falling into the hands of them WA-zeehs. We never encountered them attacking any kind of animal; and only Skittles mentioned a Behemoth which tried to hunt down a cat ... And the following question would be: Do humans taste better then animals?
Or much broader: do zeehs attack humans for the nourishment, or because of some misguided 'religious' belief - like eating the liver and heart to become stronger and stronger ... ?

All the best!
Liam

[Osiris]

Eat - starve - die. Problem solved.

So if the zombies eat... they starve and we all die? How does that solve anything?

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

[...] More interesting is the question, what happens with animals falling into the hands of them WA-zeehs. We never encountered them attacking any kind of animal; and only Skittles mentioned a Behemoth which tried to hunt down a cat ... And the following question would be: Do humans taste better then animals?

All the best!
Liam

My cat does not like that kind of question, Liam.

2258

[LiamKerrington]

Does your cat don't like this kind of question, or do you? I just imagine your cat sharpening the knives in the kitchen and then considering you as a meal after you went to bed ... ;) Sleep tight, my friend, sleep tight.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

So if the zombies eat... they starve and we all die? How does that solve anything?

Zombies are the humanoid equivalent to locusts. After having depleted the last human flesh resources, where are they ought to go? What shall they do next besides dying out?

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Does your cat don't like this kind of question, or do you? I just imagine your cat sharpening the knives in the kitchen and then considering you as a meal after you went to bed ... ;) Sleep tight, my friend, sleep tight.

Cat proximity (http://xkcd.com/231/). Sometimes, you got this really weird ideas, pal.

[LiamKerrington]

Cat proximity (http://xkcd.com/231/). Sometimes, you got this really weird ideas, pal.

I've got a lecture for you. Might save your life. I only say: Know your enemy!!!

How much do cats actually kill? (http://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill)

And what, if zeehs run out of human flesh? They eat themselves ... Then they become extinct ... So after all the problem solves itself. Why shooting zombies or nuking zombie-citie?
Answer:
Because WE CAN!

All the best!
Liam

[Pillars]

Remember Skittles mention of them eating everything. They got into the MREs one was even caught eating dog food. Their diet consists of more than just flesh.

Is this enough to feed the entire z population? No. But at least their food isn't diminishing with the humans.

[LiamKerrington]

Remember Skittles mention of them eating everything. They got into the MREs one was even caught eating dog food. Their diet consists of more than just flesh.

Is this enough to feed the entire z population? No. But at least their food isn't diminishing with the humans.

Right. Remember the mentioning of a can of food being bitten into by a zed? I think that was very early on the show, when Saul and Angel searched a shop for food ...

[Pillars]

Not to mention the Boulder buffet. Think of all the people and food the population had. Each city that falls replenishes a good stock of food.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

And what, if zeehs run out of human flesh? They eat themselves ... Then they become extinct ... So after all the problem solves itself. Why shooting zombies or nuking zombie-citie?
Answer:
Because WE CAN!

All the best!
Liam

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz309/sergeant_jasper/nukesfordummies.png

[Osiris]

Zombies are the humanoid equivalent to locusts. After having depleted the last human flesh resources, where are they ought to go? What shall they do next besides dying out?

Funny, I had always thought that humans were the humanoid equivalent of locusts.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Well, back to topic.

A lot of really good points have be mentioned by all of you. Some of the questions/points are interconnected with other question that we still do not know the answer to. For instance, if and how do the zombies communicate with each other. Or if the MRE or canned food is as nutritious as fresh human flesh. I somehow doubt the latter.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Funny, I had always thought that humans were the humanoid equivalent of locusts.

I guess the zombies learnt from the best. :)

[LiamKerrington]

Or if the MRE ... is as nutritious as fresh human flesh. I somehow doubt the latter.

According to your starting posting 1 pound of human flesh equals 1800 calories; one MRE weighs between 1 to 1.5 pound and holds about 1200 calories.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meal,_Ready-to-Eat

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

According to your starting posting 1 pound of human flesh equals 1800 calories; one MRE weighs between 1 to 1.5 pound and holds about 1200 calories.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meal,_Ready-to-Eat

Yeah, ok, but why do they primarily go for humans? What if there is some sort of zombie scurvy or whatever we shall call it. What if they need something that only human flesh can provide in the right dosis? Of course, this is just a reeeaaaallllllyyyy wild guess, as always. I see your point.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

According to your starting posting 1 pound of human flesh equals 1800 calories; one MRE weighs between 1 to 1.5 pound and holds about 1200 calories.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meal,_Ready-to-Eat

So, do we both agree that disguising oneself as MRE during the zombie apocalypse counts as an epic fail?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/MRECoats.jpg/800px-MRECoats.jpg

[LiamKerrington]

That would or could mean zombies react to certain "emissions" from human bodies like insects do regarding pheromons or bio-chemical agents in their surrounding. And what, if this is the case?

Let's get deeper into it, shall we?
As Witch_Doctor points out (and is supported by hard evidence from the WA show), the zeehs attack humans differently. What, if they ...
... just catch those humans smelling 'good',
... make humans turn that smell 'bad' and
... kill anyone else that smells 'unnatural' - like having too much cologne or perfumes on them or wearing clothes which hold fragrances of whatever kind?

Against all of this speaks that zeehs in the WA-verse not only attack based on smell, but also on noise. So smell alone cannot be the reason number one - especially since we have had different cases in which neither smelling nor noises attracted zombies anyway.

So probably it is something else then ... Maybe it is just as simple: If there were more or herds of animals around, humans might have a better chance to not being attacked as often and/ or hard as they are at the moment. Zombies only care for stuff that is suitable as 'food', but which does not necessarily have to be humans; and yet humans have some attributes and characteristics they share with food. Zeehs eating other stuff and even eating each other support this idea ...
All the best!

Liam

[LiamKerrington]

So, do we both agree that disguising oneself as MRE during the zombie apocalypse counts as an epic fail?

No. Because there are no MREs of such a huge size around. Imagine an MRE weighing 160pounds ... No, the zeehs would ignore it. They would recognize that something would be horribly wrong in that picture ...

Edit: I just saw the picture ... ANd I need to correct myself:
DISGUISING ONESELF AS MRE IS AN EPIC FAIL - NO MATTER WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

No. Because there are no MREs of such a huge size around. Imagine an MRE weighing 160pounds ... No, the zeehs would ignore it. They would recognize that something would be horribly wrong in that picture ...

Sorry, the image link was broken.

[LiamKerrington]

Sorry, the image link was broken.

It's cool ... You ninjaed my editing ... So let'S repeat it:

DISGUISING ONESELF AS MRE IS AN EPIC FAIL - NO MATTER WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

The picture let's me rephrase one of my favorite WA-cahracters: "I stand corrected." (Who said it? WHO said it??? WHO ??? WHO ??? WHO ???

[Pillars]

It's cool ... You ninjaed my editing ... So let'S repeat it:

DISGUISING ONESELF AS MRE IS AN EPIC FAIL - NO MATTER WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

The picture let's me rephrase one of my favorite WA-cahracters: "I stand corrected." (Who said it? WHO said it??? WHO ??? WHO ??? WHO ???

Not sure about that one. Sounds like... Puck maybe?

[Witch_Doctor]

So if the zombies eat... they starve and we all die? How does that solve anything?
If they eat EVERYTHING (EVERYBODY) now and leave nothing for later then they all starve after depleting their food supply. When they die off, humanity can thrive again, so long as there are no more zombies to make a comeback.

[Witch_Doctor]

That would or could mean zombies react to certain "emissions" from human bodies like insects do regarding pheromons or bio-chemical agents in their surrounding. And what, if this is the case?

Let's get deeper into it, shall we?
As Witch_Doctor points out (and is supported by hard evidence from the WA show), the zeehs attack humans differently. What, if they ...
... just catch those humans smelling 'good',
... make humans turn that smell 'bad' and
... kill anyone else that smells 'unnatural' - like having too much cologne or perfumes on them or wearing clothes which hold fragrances of whatever kind?

We know from Lizzie's experiment that the smell of human sweat triggers some kind of strong reaction. Whether it is preditory, sexual or what ever, human scent provokes a strong reaction. I guess the key to understanding the attacks lies with the type of reaction the smells cause.

[LiamKerrington]

We know from Lizzie's experiment that the smell of human sweat triggers some kind of strong reaction. Whether it is preditory, sexual or what ever, human scent provokes a strong reaction. I guess the key to understanding the attacks lies with the type of reaction the smells cause.

Yeah, true. But is this also the answer to the question, why zeehs actually eat people (or themselves)? Considering the smell of zeehs in the WA life, the smell of unopened MREs and cans of food I have some doubts. But, I would not deny the possibility that a certain smell might be another puzzle-piece in the whole picture - you know, like people, although having no hunger or appetite at all, eating stuff because it smells so good ...

All the best!
Liam

[LiamKerrington]

Not sure about that one. Sounds like... Puck maybe?

Burt.

[Pillars]

Burt.

Ah nice

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Yeah, true. But is this also the answer to the question, why zeehs actually eat people (or themselves)? Considering the smell of zeehs in the WA life, the smell of unopened MREs and cans of food I have some doubts. But, I would not deny the possibility that a certain smell might be another puzzle-piece in the whole picture - you know, like people, although having no hunger or appetite at all, eating stuff because it smells so good ...

All the best!
Liam

It would be far too easy to assume that to a zombie, humans taste like chicken, would it not? Just kidding.

[LiamKerrington]

Humans taste like chicken? I thought more piggish - especially the 'big' ones ... :cool:

[PaytonZom]

I do think that the zombies are starving because when who was it i think Saul and Angel saw a biter shot with a can in its mouth wtf and when they went to get those MRE's and that the biters saw him ( skittles) eating them and so they did after he left? thats why all those boxes and MRE's were open its kinda sad that they would even eat themselves.