Chapter 34-1 It Only Takes One

[nikvoodoo]

This is the wayne gretzky episode! Only 1 more to the landmark #100!

In honor of this, the great one will be shown as a survivor who escaped to boulder. He will survive the attack by Griggs by standing behind the net and rifling pucks off zombies heads.

Happy monday!

[Leedo2502]

I'm calling it now... in this chapter we are going to see a flash back to when the Towerites landed in Boulder up to and including the attack by the Little One.

[nikvoodoo]

So Leedo is not onboard with the Gretzky survival theory. Anyone else with me??!!

[Adventureless_Hero]

So Leedo is not onboard with the Gretzky survival theory. Anyone else with me??!!

Fuck yeah! And there will be a spin-off involving Gretzky and Corporal Puck! Gretzky and Puck! A match made in heaven, then reforged in hell, and finally solidified on ice!!!

I would like to have this chapter unite the story lines of Saul and company in L.A. with Michael and his crew in Ft. Irwin. But with the events unfolding at Boulder, I don't know if that will happen in the next three episodes. For 34-1 I expect things to pick up with Michael and/or a crew investigating Boulder.

[Leedo2502]

So Leedo is not onboard with the Gretzky survival theory. Anyone else with me??!!

I don't see how my prediction would really negate Gretsky showing up in this chapter...

[Hoff4D]

So the fate of our world will be decided Space Jam style, but in Hockey, with Looney toons + Gretzky vs Ink and Inkling as enforcers, runners and jumpers as forwards, a normal at center, and a behemoth in the net?


I'm ok with this...

[Pillars]

The two stories won't unite until the sat phone is fixed by Glenn. Gatekeeper said he could get the phone after dark and he did go out that night to get his guardians in position for the next day. Maybe he already has it but it will still be a little while before it gets back to Glenn.

[LiamKerrington]

BAMMMMM!!!!

And Datu the ressourcefull is back ...
Hope: "Doesn't sound like the soldiers are handling it..."

edit 2:
omg ... OMG ... OMFG! Kimmet's surprise out of the box is a blast - literally ... !

[HardKor]

Alright taking all bets!
What are the odds Boulder gets nuked?
And if it does what are the odds we just end up with radioactive Inklings?

[LiamKerrington]

And if it does what are the odds we just end up with radioactive Inklings?

Would be the creation's crowning glory in a very odd sense, wouldn't it?

[HardKor]

Would be the creation's crowning glory in a very odd sense, wouldn't it?
It would definitely be epic.
And I got a feeling one or both of those nukes end up going off at some point.
Like Anton Chekhov said "If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If it's not going to be fired, it shouldn't be hanging there."
And those are two really fucking huge guns hanging on the wall.

[LiamKerrington]

And those are two really fucking huge guns hanging on the wall.

You bet.
Something in the back of my head points me to the gun in Fort Irwin being fired ...

[Pillars]

Boulder evacuates to the soon freed colony.

[awkwardalex]

*Skids in*

I'm here! I'm here!

I a little "big" ones invasion the last to people I expected to here from was King Datu the Resourceful and Hope. I expect Kelly to be holding people off with an assult rifle.

I have no idea what's going to happen and who's going to make it out alive. Since Angel "ate a bullet salad" KC has shown that he like Boardwalk Empire will shoot any main character in the cheek. No one is safe.

[Penguine]

So whats the chance that Kelly, Pegs, Datu, and Hope get zapped in a nuclear blast? At least, by the way it sounds anyway, Hope might actually get to take the bandages off her eyes and see it coming.

[LiamKerrington]

So whats the chance that Kelly, Pegs, Datu, and Hope get zapped in a nuclear blast? At least, by the way it sounds anyway, Hope might actually get to take the bandages off her eyes and see it coming.

Would be like this:
"I .. I ... I can see? I see ... light!"
zwwwappp

[Hoff4D]

I thought the inbound chopper was going to be piloted by pegs for a minute there. At least i got one assumption right, robbins was still alive.

Waiting to hear the resounding "CALLED IT" from the people who named pantex chapters ago, good call guys...

So, do we think griggs retained enough memory to know to hit comms first? And that said, what if one of the guys turned in boulder....knows the launch code? Could be bad for irwin. Zombie nuclear warfare!

Also, im taking bets, who thinks the launch code will be 56221. If its not that, its got to be : 1.2.3.4.5.


Amazing....same as my luggage

[Penguine]

It sounds like there is a quite the snow storm kicking in Boulder right now, I mean with the wind and all in the background.

Oh.. the horns honking and the car alarm going off right before Datu and Hope.. what episode is that reused from? I had a flashback moment...

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Sometimes, nothing beats a decent pickaxe. Datu rules!

[awkwardalex]

Alright taking all bets!
What are the odds Boulder gets nuked?
And if it does what are the odds we just end up with radioactive Inklings?


Oh god..."ignore this idea KC"
...
that would be kind of awesome though: Kimmet makes zombies meaner, stronger, and they GLOW IN THE DARK!

[awkwardalex]

It sounds like there is a quite the snow storm kicking in Boulder right now, I mean with the wind and all in the background.

Oh.. the horns honking and the car alarm going off right before Datu and Hope.. what episode is that reused from? I had a flashback moment...

My thought would be chapter three when angel amd saul distracted the zombies with the alarm, but i could be wrong."

[Dyhoerium]

I'm just waiting for someone to go off on Kimmet. He's the reason Boulder is going under. It's gotta be Michael, right?

Awesome episode!

[LiamKerrington]

Yeah, Kimmet is so in "the bigger picture thing" that he misses the forest for all the trees ... I keep facepalming about him.
But I also like him. He not only sees the big picture, he also thinks big ... Like Nukes? How awesome is that? Next step would be the BFG9000, right?

And the code for activating the nuke should be this one: 0118 999 881 999 119 725 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab8GtuPdrUQ

And about infecting the wrong person: If that's gonna happen, it really could be "Byebye Fort Irwin", I guess ... What a blast!

[Privateer]

So I happily hopped over to the best Podcast evar to listen to the next installment.

"It Only Takes One"

*whimper*

I was thinking the 'private line' might be some Black research facility or something, but noooo, people called it right. Somehow though, we all saw the option on the table. Just a phone call away. All it would take is a code. Do inklings retain That sort of memory? Cause things might get very bad for Irwin.

All this kinda overshadows the human drama over 200 folks at the colony. But I'm rather glad Michael said it! if Boulder goes, That's it, There's no goddamn point anymore, to Irwin or to their Operations. Society is done.

[LiamKerrington]

Trying some maths:

Sometime within the last two hours between the last contact with Boulder and realizing that the coms are down it all started ...
It took the technicians a few hours to realize that the com-problems are not at the end of Boulder, but need to be at Boulder then ...
Another like 20 minutes to half an hour later the first contact is taking place between team Echo and Robbins's blackhawk ...
At that point already less then 8.200 men (national guard, veterans from Iraq and other soliders/ forces) at arms in Boulder have hard times dealing with already a few hundred infected within the walls of Boulder ...

Let's crunch numbers: How quickly there will be thousands of Infected in Boulder?

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

@Liam: Naaaa, that's neither simple nor dramatic enough!

Please pay attention to the timeframe between 0:40 and 0:53 seconds. Well, thanks a hell of a code sequence!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB4l5hqh0dc

[LiamKerrington]

Question:
Robbins speak of three units ben taken down by those things within minutes. What is the size of a unit? One man, a group of 5 or 8 or 10 men?

All the best!
Liam

[Adventureless_Hero]

Recall the chapter art with the big jet leaving Ft. Irwin? Remember how it looked like it was flying towards a giant mushroom cloud? In your face foreshadowing!

So I loved it when Michael put it into perspective by saying that Boulder could be the very last human civilization in the world and now, we are going to nuke it. The zombies got us by the short and curlies. Also, I'm thinking Michael may have stumbled onto something when Robbins said, "These things are like the soldier versions of them." I'm think either of two things ran through Michaels head when he said, "What did you say?" He was either thinking, "Fuck, the Inklings made it to Boulder after all. Just as I had thought." or he was thinking, "Soldier zombies? Fuck, these things ARE created by something else? A general? Is that was the creature in the pinstripe suit is? Holy falcon shit, too much to digest right now. I'd better keep this to myself for now, and potentially reveal it to my friends at a moment that is most inconvenient to everyone."

I think an opinion poll is very much warranted; we should be placing votes on who from our original tower crew is going to survive the exodus from Boulder? I'm hoping that Hope eats it. She'll remove her bandages and the first thing she'll see with her fixed eyes is an Inkling running at full speed to tackle her. Datu seems to have shed his paralyzing fear and become quite the bad ass. Kelly...I hope getting laid hasn't made her soft. Put a semi-auto in her hands and I'm sure she could bring swift justice to the biters. As for Pegs....um, hopefully Lady survives! :D

I'm curious as to what the title refers to, aside from the one Inkling that infected a great number of Boulder's population. Possibly it refers to the nuke? It only takes one to destroy a city? Or does it refer to Datu, the hero who will rise up with his mighty pick-axe and decimate the entire Inkling population running rampant in Boulder? It only takes one...pissed off Filipino with a pick-axe!

I'm wondering if in the long run, Michael will be forced to make a very tough decision to nuke L.A. or Ft. Irwin. A Beneath the Planet of the Apes type ending would rock.

Michael: "Damn, you...damn you all to hell!"
*cut to muted explosion mushrooming up through the clouds*
fade to black and credits crawl

[Pillars]

Question:
Robbins speak of three units ben taken down by those things within minutes. What is the size of a unit? One man, a group of 5 or 8 or 10 men?

All the best!
Liam

Usually a unit is somewhere from around 100-200 soldiers. But in the case of such a dwarfed military size it's probably 20 soldiers or so I would imagine.

[LiamKerrington]

Thank you, Pillars.

Yeah, maybe 20 ... At the end of #34-1 the Ms. Uhura tells Kimmet, Michael and Puck that a few units got back into headquarters (at Boulder I assume) ... That supports small sizes for the units ...

Ok. Now, the Irwin-Knights are going to mast the impossible ... How would they try to perform the rescue-mission? Simply giving specific orders to Boulder-HQ? Or by flying there and trying to transport as many as possible out of Boulder?
And how long will this take?
Since we are already at at least half a day of zombies rampaging in Boulder and having pressed the military services there pretty hard, how much longer would Boulder be able to keep people alive?
We have noticed several situations in which zombies simply did as they pleased - they have little trouble taking down units of military personnel, and they also have little trouble with breaking into fortified houses ... So, if they have at least the scent of the regulars or - as some of us assume or fear - they retain their knowledge from their human-life than it would be a safe assumption that Boulder is already down and only a little miracle will safe lives.

Since Kelly, Pegs, Hope and Datu played a major role so far I guess they will have their share and probably survive this - well except maybe for Kelly (I would be sorry about her going down with Boulder though). And how many more people would stand a chance to survive?
Since Kelly and Pegs are in the North of Boulder and IF the North of Boulder has not been hit by 'em Zeds so far, then maybe a good portion of Boulderites could be saved - somehow-ish ... But how do you rescue people with only few choppers, planes and especially a lack of gasoline - and all of that in the middle of stormy weather-conditions?

Well ... Call me a pessimist ... But I think Boulder and the survivors there are done ... There will be no more then maybe two- or threehunded who would stand a chance to survive - if that many at all ...

Chapter #34 / December 16th is a dark hour for the survivors - even darker then what has happened on May 8th ...

[Adventureless_Hero]

I think Pegs is going to to be one of the pilots that flies out of Boulder with a decent sized group of people. It sucks though because in the attack, everyone is going to be in a panic to escape. The "lifeboats" are going to be over crowded and likely won't be able to get off the ground.

[awkwardalex]

I think Pegs is going to to be one of the pilots that flies out of Boulder with a decent sized group of people. It sucks though because in the attack, everyone is going to be in a panic to escape. The "lifeboats" are going to be over crowded and likely won't be able to get off the ground.


If thats true then I picture Pegs telling everyon eto sit down and shut up, she's taken initative in paniced situations before.

[Penguine]

My thought...Kimmet will let boulder know they are going to try and extract people out. Boulder will be respobsible for getting people to the airport. The military will reinforce the airport and hold it at all cost. Once the on station aircraft are full they will departn and anyone not onboard at that point is going to be SOL (Shit outta luck). When the last aircraft is off the ground the military will split from Boulder and when they reach a safe distance Kimmet will blow the Nuke.

[Pillars]

Excellent episode KC, cast and crew! You guys are awesome.

[Litmaster]

All Hail King Datu?
This was it! At long last, I finally thought we would be rid of Datu the fairy once and for all... they got stuck in that house, a Beastie busted in, and I'm like, "Cue the piano music, Kc! CUE THE PIANO MUSIC!" But no- dude whips out a pick-axe and goes all Jean Claude Van Datu...

Ok, let's get this straight: all hell is breaking loose in Boulder, heavily-armed soldiers are going down left and right, yet among those still surviving is a blind girl and Datu THE PUSS. And yet he somehow manages to single-handedly take out a bulletproof Robo-Zombie with a... pickaxe? I mean 'cmon... really?


Tenuous Cord of Believably- SNAP!

Yo Kc, is Jay like paying you to stay in the cast or something? DATU NEEDS TO DIE, LIKE NOW. Isn't this the same sissy that got himself locked in an elevator back in Season 1? And was rescued from being put in the menu back in the arena??? And now he's suddenly the Terminator? Bad writing, Kc. BAD WRITING. The most realistic situation for him in the Boulder scenario is to end up as LUNCH for Mr. Longnails. But no, the guy's got more lives than Mr. Whiskers...

If Kc wants to preserve any integrity left as a writer he must KILL DATU NOW.

But not Burt, though. Burt needs to bust out of confinement, munch down a few energy bars to regain his health, then grab him a Piece and start going to town on all the Mallony folk down there, culminating in a showdown with Scratch where he ends up tossing her into an active volcano. And then spout off a cool one-liner and ride off into the sunset... Let me know, Kc, if you need any more writing advice. I'm sure you are more than willing to listen to my opinions on how you can improve your craft. :)





**Disclaimer: The above commentary by Litmaster was written in jest, and was in no way meant to seriously imply that he considers Kc Wayland to be an inferior writer, although he reserves the right to question why said author seems partial to little wussy characters who serve little purpose other than to continually annoy the Readership. Any insult, either explicit or implied, was directed soley at Datu the character and not to Jay Olegario, the person, lest the aforementioned take offense and seek retribution in the form of an ass-whupping or some other equally unpleasant course of action. Litmaster, Inc., reserves the right to deny any of the claims made in this written document, despite their written nature, and to confuse, confound, misdirect, and otherwise deflect any criticisms that may come from the sniveling Datu-worshipers out there, and any opposition to this written statement will be defended on the grounds that it was taken out of context. Please direct any such complains to 7oddisdead, Adventureless Hero, or Witch Doctor, or anyone else who is willing to listen to your patently wrong opinions on Datu.**

[Adventureless_Hero]

I dunno. I was able to believe in Datu's transformation. He gained a lot of confidence over time. His character has been through a lot and was on the verge of giving up all together. But I think Hope changed that. Despite thier arguing I do believe his fatherly instincts are kicking in and he's ready to take on an Inkling when armed with nothing more than a pick axe. This is the same little dude who beat a zed to pulp with a piece of a chair leg.

As for how they are still alive. It seems to me the wave hadn't hit their part of town yet. It's almost like the front line of infected arrives just as we are listening. So it stands to reason they would make it as far as they did without incident.


Also, I loved the disclaimer!

[Penguine]

Disclaimer FTW! LOL!

As for Datu, he really didn't do anything spectacular. Think about it. He ran in to a garage, grabbed a pick-axe and swung it as the Z busted through the door. He was aiming for the head and hick the neck. Not the best aim, but it works. Its not like the it was Datu vs. Inkling 1 on 1 in an open arena, it was Datu getting the jump on the Inkling.

[nikvoodoo]

Datu is a character archetype that survives deep into stories like this. If he's going to die, its not soon. Be happy he's advanced as a character.

So I was right about boulder getting nuked. I was wrong to think they weren't already there.......wtf??!!

Also, some pure evidence that Inklings/aldo/little ones retain memory. The former military inkling takes out power and comm first. Irwin spins its tires for hours, inklings get a strong hold in the city.

By the way, I hope no turned humans retain the knowledge to disarm the nukes. If they do.....that could be one hell of a season finale.....mission to rearm the nukes and detonate.


I don't see how my prediction would really negate Gretsky showing up in this chapter...

I was punchy this morning. :p

[Kc]

Tenuous Cord of Believably- SNAp



But not Burt, though. Burt needs to bust out of confinement, munch down a few energy bars to regain his health, then grab him a Piece and start going to town on all the Mallony folk down there, culminating in a showdown with Scratch where he ends up tossing her into an active volcano. And then spout off a cool one-liner and ride off into the sunset... Let me know, Kc, if you need any more writing advice. I'm sure you are more than willing to listen to my opinions on how you can improve your craft. :)

**Disclaimer: The above commentary by Litmaster was written in jest, and was in no way meant to seriously imply that he considers Kc Wayland to be an inferior writer, although he reserves the right to question why said author seems partial to little wussy characters who serve little purpose other than to continually annoy the Readership. Any insult, either explicit or implied, was directed soley at Datu the character and not to Jay Olegario, the person, lest the aforementioned take offense and seek retribution in the form of an ass-whupping or some other equally unpleasant course of action. Litmaster, Inc., reserves the right to deny any of the claims made in this written document, despite their written nature, and to confuse, confound, misdirect, and otherwise deflect any criticisms that may come from the sniveling Datu-worshipers out there, and any opposition to this written statement will be defended on the grounds that it was taken out of context. Please direct any such complains to 7oddisdead, Adventureless Hero, or Witch Doctor, or anyone else who is willing to listen to your patently wrong opinions on Data.**

I defend my position. :bunker: He did kill several with a chair leg when he was by himself; like he was here. Datu is very capable when he's not depending on someone else to take care of things.

Then again he could have been just very lucky.

[Cabbage Patch]

I've been taking a close look at Boulder, trying to figure out how an attack would have unfolded. Here's how I think it happened. <br />
<br />
The terrain around Boulder makes defense against a zombie threat...

[Kc]

I've been taking a close look at Boulder, trying to figure out how an attack would have unfolded. Here's how I think it happened.

Datu and Hope are probably in the northeast area of Boulder, south of the airport.

I love this :) Just as a note, Datu and Hope are more towards the south of the city.

[BigBossMan]

Alright taking all bets!
What are the odds Boulder gets nuked?
And if it does what are the odds we just end up with radioactive Inklings?

I hope Boulder does get nuked. Smarmy ski-hippies...

[Litmaster]

A few more points....

Sound F-X, Baby!
Listened a few more times, and just love the sound-scape in the Boulder scene:

passing cars
the doppler effect of the passing army vehicle
distant battle sounds
snow crunching under their feet
the Beastie busting in, then making his way closer in the house

Just really awesome sound work, guys. Must have taken a helluva long time. One thing that I couldn't place, though: what was that chirping noise when and Hope are running for new digs? Sounds like a squeaky ceiling fan or something.


A Robbinsean Slip
It occurred to me that Anthony Robbins might now know that Kimmet had no knoweldge of the 'bagging' of ol' Number 2 and might mention something about it to Kimmet by accident (e.g. "So did you guys learn anything from that body you brought back here?"). That would add a little fuel to an already burning flame...

Tanya's Find
Things are looking pretty grim for our heroes, especially if Boulder is going into meltdown-mode. I can't really see how they will ever win this Z-War, much less survive it. If there is going to be any ray of hope, it's got to be in Tany'a bloodline. She has got to discover what it is about her lineage that makes her (apparently) immune to turning. If they can somehow synthesize it and mass-produce it, that will at least help to turn the tides for the humans a bit.

BOOM!
This nuke business could be the dividing issue in the underlying power struggle between Michael and Kimmet. Kimmet and CJ would make a great couple, actually, since they both treat people like shit. If you remember, the first tower held off an impossible attack because they stuck together as a family and cared for each other-- unlike the 'cut n' run' attitude of those in Dunbar. If it comes down to Kimmet wanting to nuke the place even though Michael knows his friends are still trapped there alive, then that could set him over the edge...

[7oddisdead]

I hope Boulder does get nuked. Smarmy ski-hippies...

I thought that was aspen, all I know is beer comes from boulder....i would have a sad...

[Hoff4D]

Wow. Kudos my friend. I think we found our Michael for when/if this stuff goes down.

[BigBossMan]

I thought that was aspen, all I know is beer comes from boulder....i would have a sad...

Hopefully the fallout will get Aspen then. lol

And I homebrew. I don't need their stinking beers! :p

[Witch_Doctor]

Alright taking all bets!
What are the odds Boulder gets nuked?
And if it does what are the odds we just end up with radioactive Inklings?

Good heavens, Please, NO! That's happening in another Zombie novel with mixed results. On one hand the Zs are stronger because the radiation kills the decomposition bacterias, which is clever. On the other hand the Zombies roam around spreading radiation to everything in proximity.

[ImPaul]

I don't trust Kimmet. My We're Alive theory is that Ink and Deri are (were) on the same team. They coordinated events to achieve their ultimate goal: Destruction of the human race. Now I'm beginning to think that Kimmet is in on it, too.

BTW: I was listening to chapter 33 and in the operating room Tonya recalls Lizzy's tape and the mention of the numbered Zombies. Didn't Saul find the tape...not Michael and crew?

[Witch_Doctor]

Recall the chapter art with the big jet leaving Ft. Irwin? Remember how it looked like it was flying towards a giant mushroom cloud? In your face foreshadowing! Also, I'm thinking Michael may have stumbled onto something when Robbins said, "These things are like the soldier versions of them." I'm think either of two things ran through Michaels head when he said, "What did you say?" He was either thinking, "Fuck, the Inklings made it to Boulder after all. Just as I had thought." or he was thinking, "Soldier zombies? Fuck, these things ARE created by something else? A general? Is that was the creature in the pinstripe suit is? " Datu seems to have shed his paralyzing fear and become quite the bad ass. Kelly...I hope getting laid hasn't made her soft. Put a semi-auto in her hands and I'm sure she could bring swift justice to the biters. As for Pegs....um, hopefully Lady survives! :D

I'm curious as to what the title refers to, aside from the one Inkling that infected a great number of Boulder's population. Possibly it refers to the nuke? It only takes one to destroy a city? Or does it refer to Datu, the hero who will rise up with his mighty pick-axe and decimate the entire Inkling population running rampant in Boulder? It only takes one...pissed off Filipino with a pick-axe! A Beneath the Planet of the Apes type ending would rock.


I have to spread the love before rep-ing this!

+1 Buddy. It's coming!

[Witch_Doctor]

My thought would be chapter three when angel amd saul distracted the zombies with the alarm, but i could be wrong."

It reminded me of the first episode when Michael is sitting in his car and the Zombies attack the honking driver. Might not be the same sound bites but the scene reminded me of the beginning and how everything started. There were elements of Michael in his car, Todd and Lizzie trying to get safety and I could imagine Kelley's and Tommy's escape to safety being similar.


A different topic here, but did anyone notice that Pvt Thomas 'revised' his report with new detail? Puck tries to divert suspicion by offering up an explanation that Carl probably remembered more stuff, but Kimmet doesn't even sound like he's convinced.

[nikvoodoo]

I don't trust Kimmet. My We're Alive theory is that Ink and Deri are (were) on the same team. They coordinated events to achieve their ultimate goal: Destruction of the human race. Now I'm beginning to think that Kimmet is in on it, too.

BTW: I was listening to chapter 33 and in the operating room Tonya recalls Lizzy's tape and the mention of the numbered Zombies. Didn't Saul find the tape...not Michael and crew?

Saul recounted Lizzie's findings on the tape to Michael when they met up for the exchange.

[Cabbage Patch]

It reminded me of the first episode when Michael is sitting in his car and the Zombies attack the honking driver. Might not be the same sound bites but the scene reminded me of the beginning and how everything started

I was reminded of that scene as we heard the zombies attacking the neighbor that wouldn't let Datu and Hope inside. Interesting to think that the audio effects were reinforcing that memory. Also, it does not pay to be a dick in the Zombie Apocalypse!

[Leedo2502]

Question:
Robbins speak of three units ben taken down by those things within minutes. What is the size of a unit? One man, a group of 5 or 8 or 10 men?

All the best!
Liam

"Unit" is about as ambiguous as you can get... could be a Platoon, could be a Batallion.

[Leedo2502]

Dude I want to see Kimit and Michael talking about Lipizzaner ponies before they detonate the Nuke in Boulder...shit would be cash.


2183

You do qualify your remarks. If someone asked me if we should bomb Japan, a simple "Yes." By all means sir, drop that fucker, twice! I don't mean to suggest that you're indecisive, Mr Hunter. Not at all. Just, uh... complicated. 'course, that's the way the Navy wants you. Me, they wanted simple.

[Nedjema]

So king Datu the resourceful is back! And kicking super soldier zombie ass with a pickaxe! Yay!

Oh, and Hope is back too... damn it.

Michael's reaction when tony said they were like soldier zombies was interesting. You could hear him figuring it out, that maybe the reason why it's been quiet was because ink was preparing soldiers for a final attack agaisnt humanity? That all the others were prototypes? Awesome.

Hope asked why some of the zombies were freezing from the cold, and some weren't. It sounds like maybe not all humans get turned into advanced little ones, or soldier zombies, when they turn.

[ZombieBlake]

Hope asked why some of the zombies were freezing from the cold, and some weren't. It sounds like maybe not all humans get turned into advanced little ones, or soldier zombies, when they turn.

If that is the case then the theory of a biter turning others into that type of biter may not be 100% accurate.
It could also connect to specific blood types/past life. It was soldiers who were being turned into 'soldier zombies.'

[Witch_Doctor]

RED MEAT FOLKS! WE NOW HAVE RED MEAT!!
2185

What? Not RED enough? Well here ya go, courtsey of Mr. KC Wayland.
2186

Complaints of things moving too slow? As Kimmet says, "Now it's time to catch up."
Meatless episodes? KC says, "Choke on my meat now, Bitches!"
Some of us were complaining while we were walking through the desert, "Ye, when we were in L.A. we had plenty of action and lots of red, bloody, dripping people meats. Now all we have is this story-sustaining manna!" Now we have heart-pumping action and a shmorgasborge of meat. Potentially 150,000 corpeses worth. "Yo, Mr. Shit! The Fan, over there, said somethin' about ya mutha! Whatcha gonna do aboud it?" You know the rest!

No communication with Boulder; They're not answering their phone, IP pings are timing out, Mork can't be reached in his shell and they don't poke you back on facebook. What's happening?

Over run by Zombies
Just bad communication channels.
Glenn screwing around reparing the broken sat phone.
Satellites' orbits are decaying.

Pick 2 or 3? Then you ain't been paying attention! This is the end-times boys and girls. The only good luck is no luck. Everything else is bad luck. Plus, the time line isn't right for Glenn to have the spare phone yet.
Pick 4? Then you're smarter than Michael. Those space birds need nudging from time to time to keep them in proper orbit.
Pick 1? You're a heartless !@#$"%!!! Not Boulder!!! Yeah, great for story but I can't take it. Y'all trying to kill poor ol Witch Doctor? I was rooting to the gang to find safety and this happens?

Kimmet has a private sat phone? OK, Again, Kimmet ... has ... a ... private ... sat ... phone? Who's he gonna call? (I'll piss on the first person to say it.)

Boulder booty calls.
Secret US Government buried in the Appalachian Mountains.
Regional military warlords.
CJ

2,3 and 4 seems like it would have come straight out of somebody's ass.
Personally, I was all like... 2184 You have a private Sat Phone? Who is she?

[fridginators]

Personally I was half expecting Boulder's communications to be down due to natural causes, but to then be attacked shortly afterwards. I guess we can just assume that Griggs was too strong for the initial team that found him.

Michael is definitely piecing things together, there will definitely be a Michael/Kimmet conflict, and the nukes may not be detonated but will come into play. I do hope everyone in Boulder survives, but I could see Pegs dying just as she's about to be saved by Michael or while performing some heroic act.

Glad to see the return of King Datu the Resourceful!

[LiamKerrington]

Nice one =>
The only good luck is no luck. Everything else is bad luck.

About Datu killing a Little One ... Yeah, I agree: Datu evolves and has some self-sustaining abilities he showed several times already. Still this scene felt weird, although I liked it. Weirdness from:
a) if you aim for the head and hit the throat, ok might happen. Nothing's wrong with that - BUT
b) Little Ones have tougher skin and muscels, which makes things pass through a lot harder; would a swing of a pick-axe have the comparable kinetic power like a shot from a 9mm or an assault rifle or even a much higer one? And even if this won't matter ...
c) ... on so many occasions zombies (including Little Ones) were heavily wounded and still kept comming, unless they received a single shot at the right place (head) or were drowned in a spray of bullets, explosions, fire or whatnot; that's why I am kind of curious how a single blow with a pickaxe through the throat really could stop a Little One (THE super-zombie in this show so far) - at least instantly.

Anyway ... I call it a lucky shot for now and am actually happy that King Datu the ressourcefull had his heroic moment. Loved it ...

@CabbagePatch: Awesome! You analysis is a blast.

@"some freezing and others still moving" ... Yeah, strikes me as odd as well. If the sole source of this attack is Griggs and he turns people into different kinds of Zeds, that might hint towards blood-types having an influence on the zed-agent somehow-ish ... At least I like the idea.
OR!
The attack has another or several sources. Like, you know: Not only Griggs engaging, but having another group of zombies coming from somewhere else ... Although Zed-attacks have decreased, they still took place ... And what, if single groups of zeds are under control of Smart Ones who just waited for the right time to attack ...
OR!
Griggs went to Denver first, found a group of Zeds and made them follow him to attack Boulder ...
Really hard to tell.

All the best!
Liam

[LiamKerrington]

Michael's reaction when tony said they were like soldier zombies was interesting. You could hear him figuring it out, that maybe the reason why it's been quiet was because ink was preparing soldiers for a final attack agaisnt humanity? That all the others were prototypes? Awesome.

Hope asked why some of the zombies were freezing from the cold, and some weren't. It sounds like maybe not all humans get turned into advanced little ones, or soldier zombies, when they turn.

Part 1: Michael still does not know the Little Ones; he only relies on reports from others, and he only has a theoretical understanding of the Little Ones.
I would not go as far and say that Ink has created a unit of super-soldier-zeds to attack Boulder. Because this would involve a couple of things: a 1.000mi march and actually the knowledge that Boulder is a city of survivors, which Ink would not know - unless he owns an NSA-facility with which he was able to listen to all the remaining broadcasting and communication in existence ... Would seem quite far-fetched ...
I think, Michael does not seem to fathom the dimension of what is told to him - which could be as simple as this:
Little One Griggs infects soliders => soliders become Little One soldiers; and Little Ones in general behave a lot more stratgic, probably retain some of their former-life skills and knowledges, thus Little One Soldiers behave like soldiers after all ...

Part 2: Yeah, you are right. That struck me as well. I just refer to my other posting #59 in this thread. I think there are several ways to look at it - with one amendment: maybe the zeds freezing simply have 'burnt out', like having to less of body-functions keeping them warm or active after all ...

All the best!
Liam

[LiamKerrington]

and the nukes may not be detonated but will come into play.

How about this: The nuke from Irwin will be brought to Ground Zero or the L.A. hospital and will be blasted there ...?

[Litmaster]

Wow. Kudos my friend. I think we found our Michael for when/if this stuff goes down.

Seriously. When the shit hits the fan, the first thing I'm doing is looking for Cabbage Patch!



I thought that was aspen, all I know is beer comes from boulder....i would have a sad...

Nope, Boulder is hippie-city... I've been there. The whole place reeks of patchouli oil. Witness:

1. http://www.hippy.com/modules.php?name=Reviews&rop=showcontent&id=23

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=378BybCpPrc

3. http://travelinglandlord.wordpress.com/2009/10/11/traveling-landlord-case-study-boulder-colorado/



How about this: The nuke from Irwin will be brought to Ground Zero or the L.A. hospital and will be blasted there ...?

Yeah, with Scratch strapped to it, hopefully. A fitting end for her character, IMHO.

[lenarinn]

Can I say first, I am SO glad that we didnt go back to the colony!
This was an amazing chapter and after listening to its 4 times i still cant organize everything that we were given!So I'm going to try my best to say what i believe and I hope i dont miss something! It's kind of late so excuse my snarky-ness 8D


Why are they not popsicles like the rest? I dunno Hope, maybe it's a different Type of Z (why does no one say zombie again? I mean besides Tommy getting lectured for it?). I'm sure you know about them considering who you live around. There are zombies of all kinds, everywhere. Isn't it possible that maybe some are better adapted to the cold than others?

Boulder is going BOOM. I am like 85% positive. It'll be Kimmet who does it "We cant save them anyway so gotta look at the bigger picture. It's my butt or the civillians left in boulder so hmmmmmm." He did agree to evacuate Boulder though so props for him!

Evacutation yay! Odds are Kimmet's going to tell Michael and his buddy, they need to stay in FT.Irwin. Michael flips him off and jumps on a helicopter and goes busting into boulder like the badass we all know he is! I swoops in finds Pegs, maybe Kelly. Datu and Hope... probably someone else finds them if they live... Someone gets left behind when Boulder goes explodey! Yay for drama. It'll probably be Kelly... or the dog. Lady's gunna die i think :(.

Datu and Hope I'm not really sure on yet, but i think they might survive. Datu is getting tougher and with that pick axe he is ready to take on the inklings! Though, only one at a time, for two or three minutes for each little one. Hope will be standing behind him, probably complaining about the sound. Hope was kind of annoying in this episode so I dont think I'd mind much if she didnt survive *cough cough dont hate me cough* Pegs, I am pretty sure will survive this. Kelly I dont know but Pegs yes. She still has the conflict with scratch going for her character though i doubt we are going to see that again till Season four.

Im not sure i provided any real insite XD Just thought id express my opinion on the chapter.:D

[Penguine]

Kimmet has a private sat phone? OK, Again, Kimmet ... has ... a ... private ... sat ... phone? Who's he gonna call? (I'll piss on the first person to say it.)

Ghost Busters! :yay:

Or would it be Zombie Busters?

[Pillars]

Hope asked why some of the zombies were freezing from the cold, and some weren't. It sounds like maybe not all humans get turned into advanced little ones, or soldier zombies, when they turn.[/QUOTE]

Hope was talking about the normals before Griggs got to Boulder. The regulars froze in the winter cold, while all turned by Griggs during the attack didn't freeze because of their resilience.

[LiamKerrington]

Kimmet has a private sat phone? OK, Again, Kimmet ... has ... a ... private ... sat ... phone? Who's he gonna call? (I'll piss on the first person to say it.)

Ghost Busters! :yay:

Or would it be Zombie Busters?

or these ones:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ1ieYFRbjE




Hope asked why some of the zombies were freezing from the cold, and some weren't. It sounds like maybe not all humans get turned into advanced little ones, or soldier zombies, when they turn.

Hope was talking about the normals before Griggs got to Boulder. The regulars froze in the winter cold, while all turned by Griggs during the attack didn't freeze because of their resilience.[/QUOTE]

Makes a lot of sense.

[Bullethead]

Man I think I may stop coming to the forums. Everything you guys say finds its way into the show and it is rather a let down. The one thing I thought for sure would not happen was Hope getting her eye sight back. But a good number of forum members seemed to cling to that idea.

I feel I was the only one who thought that to be beyond reason. I mentioned why before but I mean it is a risky procedure now adays, lets think about where the world would be in Zombie world. You know everything is run off of generators, they require gas, how often are these soldiers bringing gas back to Boulder and Irwin? I don't think Shell still makes deliveries and BP isn't sending any ships to go drilling in the Gulf anymore. I harp on the gas thing because without gas there is no electricity essentially, without electricity there is a very minimal chance an eye surgery could take place. Not to mention the need of running water for sterilization and what not.

I am ranting, apologies, it actually was an awesome episode. I am on the edge of my seat, and glad to hear Datu and Hope's voice again. The story is killer, can't wait for more.

Just upset I read the forums so much. It almost feels sometimes that the story comes from what everyone here is typing up as they're predictions.

Keep up the good work though everyone, this is definitely the best podcast on the interwebz.

[nikvoodoo]

Bullethead: If you don't already, download and listen to our special WND podcast this upcoming Monday. We somewhat touch on the subject with Kc. It's not that Kc listens to the forum and what we predict as much as it is Kc leaves bread crumbs and sees who can follow the trail. He lead us to believe it's possible to repair Hope's eyes as it was a physical shock that caused her condition and not a birth defect or disease.

As for electricity, Boulder has 8 hydroelectric plants in service today. According to Boulder's government website (http://www.bouldercolorado.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4994&Itemid=1189), the 8 plants produce enough to power 8,000 homes. Now, that's not enough for the entire city, but if they focus the power drawn to specific locations, they could easily generate power for hospitals, command centers etc. That could very well be one of the reasons Boulder was chosen as the stronghold of humanity.

[Bullethead]

avid listener to WND (very entertaining) and thank you for responding. I heard it mentioned a few months back that it is a positive and negative for being on the forum.

On one hand you get WA 7 days a week. On the other you get WA 7 days a week.

The die hards are going to go through each thread and come out with a very likely outcome. Some things I may have missed and were crucial.

So its more my fault for joining in with the die hards :zombie: no worries

[nikvoodoo]

avid listener to WND (very entertaining) and thank you for responding. I heard it mentioned a few months back that it is a positive and negative for being on the forum.

On one hand you get WA 7 days a week. On the other you get WA 7 days a week.

The die hards are going to go through each thread and come out with a very likely outcome. Some things I may have missed and were crucial.

So its more my fault for joining in with the die hards :zombie: no worries

I thought you were, but I never dare presume. :)

[Witch_Doctor]

Something seems odd. If the shit hits the fan all over and then more shit hits another fan in say, Boulder, then why bother nuking it? Why nuke one place when the rest of the world is , well, shitty?

[Merlin1274]

All this Boulder stuff reminds of The Stand by Stephen King.. The people there settled into boulder and got the power working again at the Hydro plants.

But IMO Boulder is Toast. Michael will have a chance to make sure some get out but not all will before Kimmet turns Boulder into a Crater. But its still up in the air on which of the Tower Folk survives. Datu and Hope will Maybe Kelly bites it helping the others get out.. I will find it odd if all of them make it out of Boulder.
There are other places far colder then There they may can find others surviving.. Alaska, Places in Canada, New England.. etc.. This could go on.. I am sure other places have survived the onslaught. Other Military bases.. Naval Units out at sea..

[Adventureless_Hero]

Something seems odd. If the shit hits the fan all over and then more shit hits another fan in say, Boulder, then why bother nuking it? Why nuke one place when the rest of the world is , well, shitty?

I think the concern is 150,000 Inklings. These are different types of shit hitting the fan...some really nasty little shits. They don't want that hitting the fan. They'd rather nuke it before the rest of the world catches a whiff.

It's a catch-22 if you ask me though. Do they nuke what could possibly the last refuge of humanity on the planet and reduce the human population to a handful of people or do they take a chance and possibly let a new type of super zombie increase it's numbers to become a God awful army that could finally be the straw that breaks the camels back, sealing the fate of humanity once and for all? Wow, another poll idea; would you nuke Boulder? Who the fuck is dropping the ball?! We need to opinion polls STAT! :p

[LiamKerrington]

Poll is up!

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3683-POLL-Nuke-Boulder

[nikvoodoo]

You can create those polls you know. :)

I think the big concern should be destroying the Inklings before they can spread. It is one thing to have Z-day sweep the nation. It is another thing entirely to have 150,000 super soldiers who are bullet resistant, strong, fast, and have a nasty 'tude coming at you.

It should be noted we heard from Hope and Datu. One of them will (most likely) survive because we heard their experience with the pick axe. If we are to saddle a Tower-ite to die next in Boulder I'd say it's Kelly. I've run out of story ideas for her. She's basically served her purpose hasn't she? Her loose ends are all tied up in a neat little bow. I wouldn't be shocked if she has the option of being rescued but elects to stay behind to "suffer" the nuke.

[Arkum]

I predict Part 2 is Datu arming the soldiers with Lobos and it becomes a melee WAR!

[HardKor]

I think the concern is 150,000 Inklings. These are different types of shit hitting the fan...some really nasty little shits. They don't want that hitting the fan. They'd rather nuke it before the rest of the world catches a whiff.

It's a catch-22 if you ask me though. Do they nuke what could possibly the last refuge of humanity on the planet and reduce the human population to a handful of people or do they take a chance and possibly let a new type of super zombie increase it's numbers to become a God awful army that could finally be the straw that breaks the camels back, sealing the fate of humanity once and for all? Wow, another poll idea; would you nuke Boulder? Who the fuck is dropping the ball?! We need to opinion polls STAT! :p

You're right that the possibility of 150,000 Inklings is enough to make the nuclear option a viable one. But the bombs were set up well before anyone knew about the existence of the Inklings. I think Witch_Doctor's got a pretty good point. If the rest of the world has fallen to the zombies, why set up a nuclear fail-safe for Boulder and Irwin? It is kinda odd.

[LiamKerrington]

You know, maybe it is one of those decisions having been made at a time where Kimmet and guys still believed that the whole situation was not as f*cked up as it seems right now ... Also keep in mind: We actually don't know anything about what might have happened to Africa, Latin America, Europa, Western Asia and such. Although it might be a safe assumptiopn that all of the world was run over, we actually only have good guesses about anything regarding the US and the better portion of the pacific areas ...
Anyway: Regarding the WA-universe Boulder IS the single one bigger settlement of rescued survivors ... Having it going down at the moment is kind of a blast ... And literally a blast, if the nuke gets activated ...

[nikvoodoo]

It doesn't strike me as all that odd given the history of Mutually Assured Destruction. It may have been considered a kind alternative to living out the rest of your days as a mindless flesh eater. Your location gets taken over? Well don't you worry about it! Your friends over here have the ability to make it so you don't suffer. One bright flash, and the nightmare ends.

[IamPaul]

It only takes one, baby. It only takes one, baby. To become over run. Great episode, again. I am guessing Hope has got her vision repaired just in time for all hell to break loose. And the line, something that alot of us have guessed since the first appearance of Ink, 'they are like the soldier versions of us.' (I may have butchered that line). What if the zeds learn that there is a phone number and a code and they try to nuke Fort Irwin? Some of them seem to be smart enough to do that. Or a crazed human that has lost his mind. I imagine a countdown at Fort Irwin. They must evacuate. Boulder is no good, Michael knows the only available safe spot. The Colony. This is where we pick up where we left off at the Colony.

[Cabbage Patch]

What if the zeds learn that there is a phone number and a code and they try to nuke Fort Irwin? Some of them seem to be smart enough to do that. Or a crazed human that has lost his mind. I imagine a countdown at Fort Irwin.

We know the inklings have already gotten the Mayor of Boulder and the city command staff. Assuming some of them were turned, rather than eaten, and that they retain knowledge from before, it seems like they already have the information they need. But do they have a satphone?

[LiamKerrington]

In case the Mayor is turned and retains his memory from his former human self, THEN they have a sat phone ...

edit: I just realized a small detail that slipped my mind ... Robbins mentioned the mayor [of Boulder] being "most likely dead". Thus: No confirmation on his real situation - is he dead, or has he turned? Man ... A small information with quite some *bang* behind it ...

[leeantonio]

I predict that kimmet hits the nuke but it doesn't work correctly so they have a ticking time bomb! Its getting really good but i need more action in these episodes!

[Megg]

Datu and Hope I'm not really sure on yet, but i think they might survive. Datu is getting tougher and with that pick axe he is ready to take on the inklings! Though, only one at a time, for two or three minutes for each little one. Hope will be standing behind him, probably complaining about the sound. Hope was kind of annoying in this episode so I dont think I'd mind much if she didnt survive *cough cough dont hate me cough*

I can't believe this is going to be my first post, and it is to say that SERIOUSLY wanted to bitch slap Hope this episode. She hasn't annoyed me at all thus far, but a teenage girl should know when it's an appropriate time to whine and to shut the hell up.


....Or well you would think they would in a zombie apocalypse.

[facebook.com/alexinks]

i hope datu doesn't sacrifice himself for hope like her mother sort of did for him.
anyways, good to hear datu again, also to clarify, for a drawing i want to do
what did datu use to kill the zombie? a hammer? it wasn't specified was it?

[Cabbage Patch]

i hope datu doesn't sacrifice himself for hope like her mother sort of did for him.
anyways, good to hear datu again, also to clarify, for a drawing i want to do
what did datu use to kill the zombie? a hammer? it wasn't specified was it?

It was a pickaxe

[facebook.com/alexinks]

thanks, i dunno why i didn't hear that.

[nikvoodoo]

I predict that kimmet hits the nuke but it doesn't work correctly so they have a ticking time bomb! Its getting really good but i need more action in these episodes!

I have it on pretty good authority that from here on out until the end of season 3 it's pretty much nonstop, no rest for the wicked. I really hope that as contained in our special podcast and not in the before/after conversation........

[Pillars]

Do you guys think the map that Cpt. Long's team made is lost or do you think that they will bring the Naval Base back into the mix? Pantex was briefly mentioned and now it's extremely important. Was the map just a plot device to connect Irwin and the Inklings in LA? Will the naval base have importance? Kimmet is planning something for the Pacific. Thoughts?

[yocatjaney]

Gotta agree, Hope kind of irritated me as well. I guess she's just sassy... and a teenager. :)

-Jane/Hope

[Deacon_Tyler]

It breaks my heart to say it, but whenever Datu speaks, I'm kinda rooting for the zombies :(

[Cabbage Patch]

Do you guys think the map that Cpt. Long's team made is lost or do you think that they will bring the Naval Base back into the mix? Pantex was briefly mentioned and now it's extremely important. Was the map just a plot device to connect Irwin and the Inklings in LA? Will the naval base have importance? Kimmet is planning something for the Pacific. Thoughts?

I have been wondering about the reference to the Long Beach Navy Base. In our world that base closed in 1997 and was converted into a commercial container port. Hopefully it's still an active Navy base in the We're Alive universe—they used to have aircraft carriers there!

As for the map, I'm guessing that Carl recovered that from the crash site, but it's been overlooked in all the excitement.

[LiamKerrington]

Maybe the map is the one device that helped Zombie-Griggs to find Boulder ... ?

[IamPaul]

It breaks my heart to say it, but whenever Datu speaks, I'm kinda rooting for the zombies :(

You must be new to the show. You start off being annoyed by him, then after a few months you love him.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

You must be new to the show. You start off being annoyed by him, then after a few months you love him.

I concur absolutely. Without Datu, it would have been much more difficult for the characters to survive. And Datu is able to use everything from a screwdriver to a pickaxe - if he needs to.
He is one of the most humane acting characters along Riley, I guess.

@Deacon_Tyler: Please take a look at http://wayland.ws/video/were-alive-walive-chapter-25/

Every time I watch Jay as Datu, I reminds me of the unintentionally warmhearted jokesters in Shakespears plays.And of course, he is Mr Resourcefull.

[Bullethead]

Note: Hope sound older to anyone? More mature a little bit? To me she did, good voice/acting.

Looking forward,

The next three chapters are going to be great. We have what 1 more season left? I am curious as to if we will ever find out how this all started.

It seems that every time the heroes start to do research or make a dent, everything stops and is inevitably lost. Research attempt 1 - Colony is over run / corrupted ; Research attempt 2 - Tower falls ; Research attempt 3 - Dunbar tower over run ; Research attempt 4 - Boulder Beat Down.

Here we are ending season 3, 1 more to go and at this rate with the research / start over ratio as it is (1:1) we may never get the ultimate answer. Hope this bad boy doesn't end like the Sopranos in the middle of a sen.........

[LiamKerrington]

I am curious as to if we will ever find out how this all started.

It seems that every time the heroes start to do research or make a dent, everything stops and is inevitably lost. Research attempt 1 - Colony is over run / corrupted ; Research attempt 2 - Tower falls ; Research attempt 3 - Dunbar tower over run ; Research attempt 4 - Boulder Beat Down.

Do make things worse ... Do you remember Michael saying something along this line: "I gave Tanya stuff to research against my better judgement ..." ;)

In the end I would feel very, very good if the mystery behind the zeeh-pocalypse remains a secret, because I enjoy this whole speculation thing ... I wonder if WA would be only half as much fun, if this thrill evolving around the "how did it all start?" was not there ... And the revelation of the real cause might be like ... *OMFG*facepalm*DUDE!*, you know what I mean? I could be very wrong and the revelation could be just the sugar on top ...

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Do make things worse ... Do you remember Michael saying something along this line: "I gave Tanya stuff to research against my better judgement ..." ;)

In the end I would feel very, very good if the mystery behind the zeeh-pocalypse remains a secret, because I enjoy this whole speculation thing ... I wonder if WA would be only half as much fun, if this thrill evolving around the "how did it all start?" was not there ... And the revelation of the real cause might be like ... *OMFG*facepalm*DUDE!*, you know what I mean? I could be very wrong and the revelation could be just the sugar on top ...

I also do not think that this quest has ever to be answered. It is a (cool) story story device, but essential, as Michael Swan uses to say, it is "A story about survival." For my point of view, WA simply works, because it about more than killing zombies on a weekly basis. Besides, I think that the majority of listeners are rather speculating about when, how and how long Burt will take revenge on Scratch. This will be very, very unpleasant.

[LiamKerrington]

Besides, I think that the majority of listeners are rather speculating about when, how and how long Burt will take revenge on Scratch. This will be very, very unpleasant.

IF Burt's gonna have his revenge on Scratch, THEN for whom will it be unpleasant? Although I would like to see Grandpa beating the shit out of Scratch, I am pretty sure his revenge will backlash on him - he is old, for nearly half a year he was put into custody and was also tortured ... He is weak and pretty likely next to being broken ... But Scratch on the other side is young, pretty powerfull and very capable of doing plenty of things ... I may be wrong, future will tell us, but most likely not within chapter #34 ...

All the best!
Liam

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

IF Burt's gonna have his revenge on Scratch, THEN for whom will it be unpleasant? Although I would like to see Grandpa beating the shit out of Scratch, I am pretty sure his revenge will backlash on him - he is old, for nearly half a year he was put into custody and was also tortured ... He is weak and pretty likely next to being broken ... But Scratch on the other side is young, pretty powerfull and very capable of doing plenty of things ... I may be wrong, future will tell us, but most likely not within chapter #34 ...

All the best!
Liam

In the medium term, Burt will not be able to do anything. He is broken and has lost a lot of body weight. In other words, he is a wreck. Looking back at 2009, his life must seem to him like an extrem roller coaster ride. At first, he is a mourning widower, who by the events undergoes quite a transformation and becomes even the leader of the survivers at one point. It is a pity that the rope came lose, leaving him behind when the tower was evacuated.

I am not not sure if or when Burt will get his revenge on Scratch and do not see whether this will even compensate for what she has done to him.

[Witch_Doctor]

Note: Hope sound older to anyone? More mature a little bit? To me she did, good voice/acting.


I thought that it is the teenage actor who plays that Hope sounds older because of the time span between now and the recordings of the earlier episodes. But, yeah, overall she does sound older and more mature. She still has the sassiness that she had at the Colony but it comes across as less bratty.






The next three chapters are going to be great. We have what 1 more season left? I am curious as to if we will ever find out how this all started.


I listened to an interview with KC Wayland where a host asked him this question. His answer was along the line of, 'The listener will be given information to know what happened.' I just paraphrased what I remembered so take this with a grain of salt.






It seems that every time the heroes start to do research or make a dent, everything stops and is inevitably lost. Research attempt 1 - Colony is over run / corrupted ; Research attempt 2 - Tower falls ; Research attempt 3 - Dunbar tower over run ; Research attempt 4 - Boulder Beat Down.

Here we are ending season 3, 1 more to go and at this rate with the research / start over ratio as it is (1:1) we may never get the ultimate answer. Hope this bad boy doesn't end like the Sopranos in the middle of a sen.........

Ha! You are right on spot with this. This happens in alot of good sci-fi too. It would be nice to see an occasional Win with a good follow-through. The worst thing with serial stories is the cliffhanger after cliffhanger. Just as Cpl Puck says, "All build up and no release."

I'm curious about your research list though, what were Research attempt 1 and 3?
The ones I remeber are:
1) Lizzy's sweat experiments
2) Michael's Tag & Track
3) CJ's group going to Ground Zero - but this doesn't slow the story because we hear about it from CJ after the fact. She tells Saul and Victor that one guy had to be killed.
4) Tanya wanting to expand upon Lizzy's research
5) Saul and Victor goes to Ground Zero - This one seems to just go nowhere, like they just said, "Hey that's VERY interesting! Gotta know more." "You're right. Anyone wanna raise chickens and watch movies instead?", "Yeah, I'm in.", "Me too, lets go."

[Hoff4D]

In case the Mayor is turned and retains his memory from his former human self, THEN they have a sat phone ...

edit: I just realized a small detail that slipped my mind ... Robbins mentioned the mayor [of Boulder] being "most likely dead". Thus: No confirmation on his real situation - is he dead, or has he turned? Man ... A small information with quite some *bang* behind it ...

Well, Kimmet called the sat phone (3rd line) with no answer, Thats why I said around page 2 of this that if an inkling retains memory, Irwin's days are numbered as well.

I think Michael and puck weasel their way onto an outgoing aircraft to Boulder, as they're almost there, Irwin gets nuked, and they're forced to fight and regain control of boulder. AS this happens Saul gets ahold of the Sat phone parts, they hit redial, and there's no answer in Irwin.

This gets rid of one setting, leaves quite a plot open for Season 4, and hella-tons of shit hitting the fan until season finale. Much like each other season finale we end up with some stronghold up in flames (or mushroom clouds). This also leaves some 'hope at a civilization', which we would lose at a nuke of Boulder. We still will arguably lose a large majority, but there is still some humanity there. As to how the Saul meeting back up with Michael situation is resolved in this instance? I dont know...I dont have an answer in this theory.

[Hoff4D]

Do make things worse ... Do you remember Michael saying something along this line: "I gave Tanya stuff to research against my better judgement ..." ;)

In the end I would feel very, very good if the mystery behind the zeeh-pocalypse remains a secret, because I enjoy this whole speculation thing ... I wonder if WA would be only half as much fun, if this thrill evolving around the "how did it all start?" was not there ... And the revelation of the real cause might be like ... *OMFG*facepalm*DUDE!*, you know what I mean? I could be very wrong and the revelation could be just the sugar on top ...

I'm ok with the answer never being revealed to how it started, but....I need Michaels story about Randy. It was bad enough to cause Michael nightmares, yet all the other people around him dying has (seemingly) left him unaffected, WHAT DID RANDY DO?!

/randomthoughtfromseasonsago

Sorry, had that one buried deep



Also, has anybody brought up the 'updated file' from Carl? Is this groundwork laid to give creedance to Michael's "These are super soldier zombies" when trying to convince Kimmet of things?

[Witch_Doctor]

RED MEAT

Kimmet#1, "Get a task force scrambled! I wanna know what's going own out there!"
Puck, "Want me to send someone to check it out?"
Kimmet#2, "Don't jump to conclusions. They might just have communication problems. Wake the engineers. Put the chopers on stand by."
KIMMET!!! Shit or get off the pot!

Uhura, "Hey, there's a secret Sat Phone!"
Michael, "Really? Where does it go?"
Kimmet, "Uh, I gotta go." I just knew he had Kelly on speed dial listed under Booty Call.

We finally get an account of strength of the military at Kimmet's disposal. Assuming the Irwin and deployed numbers are constant..

8500 in Boulder
2000 on Post in Irwin
200 in the Box
180+/- deployed.
10 to 11 thousand.


We learn from Spc Robins:

Communincation and power are the first to go.
Command staff and mayor are probably dead.
They tried radioing Ft Irwin but Michael says they never received any communications.
Solidiers that are not killed are turned and turn on others.
Mentions that they seem like 'soldiered versions of them.' This gets Michaels attention.

#5 on the list is interesting. Is Michael surprised by the fact that they're like soldiers? As in, they're smart zombies retaining soldier traits? Could this be reason that Little Ones move funny because they were babies turned before/while learning to walk? Or was Michael responding to what Robins said about the zombies being difficult to take down, as in an Inkling?

#4 on the list adds a crazy new dynamic to combat. In reality your enemy can kill, capture or wound you. Here, the enemy either kills you or turns you into one of them. Putting up a brave and gallant fight to the death might hurt your side more. The enemy's method of killing, maiming and turning are all the same. When you take away the soldier's advantage of superior firepower (or just firepower, period, in this case) then you have a case simillar to the House Advantage in a casino; in favor of the zombies. During an engagement, the zombies numbers are likely to be sustained or INCREASED. Soldiers will have to kill the zombies and any wounded commrads (screaming for help and mercy) at the same time.

We meet up with Datu and Hope and get our first view of Boulder.
Datu and Hope live together and Pegs and Kelly live in another part of town but we don't know if they live together. Say what you will about Datu's punk-ass-bitchness but he's taken out zombies with things you'll find in a garage. TWICE! Yes, he may be the bane of coyotes and have trouble shooting zombies at point blank range but when push comes to shove he starts swinging. Everyone forget Datu bashing several zombies with a broken chair leg? A B.R.O.K.E.N. C.H.A.I.R. L.E.G! in the arena when they came to get Samantha.
Datu Pacquiao took down an Inking in one swing. Even while missing the head. I didn't hear very much gurgling or strugle after he hit the thing. Sounds like he took it down rather quickly. I would expect a normal person to present some strugling if s/he were wounded only in the throat. He could have severed nerves too, however.

Kimmet reveals the nukes and proves to be the anti-Michael. Anti-Micheal as in he rambles on and on until we all cheer when Michael cuts him off. Kimmet goes on and on about Boulder's medical training facilities like he's a college recruiter instead of focusing on telling Michael his friends will be shipped to Boulder. Here, he goes on... about Pantex during all-hell-breaking-loose. Of course this is for story purposes because not all fans are frum participants. It doesn't take away from the story but from Michael's perspective it's annoyingly irrelevant.

Now back to the nukes.

Listen at 17:00 minutes Kimmet say that there was a time when the whole thing started they were losing whole cities. BEFORE we lost contact with other bases IT WAS DECIDED we would have a (failsafe.)
Now back to my nagging feeling that it would be strange to nuke a city if the whole world were over-run. If Boulder is over-run, why nuke it. L.A. was over-run and it's still there. If the shit hit the fan all over the U.S. and they know it (Which Kimmet states that he doesn't know for sure in part two of Beyond our Borders) then now is too little to late to contain things. It sure wasn't to contain the possible 150,000 Inklings. They were not even imagined when the failsafe was in place.

Ah ha! Failsafe. Everytime I listened to that chapter I kept thing about the Cold War film. Now I know why. Not only because of the title and the nukes but because I kept wondering HOW Boulder was the failsafe.

This brings me back even further to my suspicion that there are other safe zones and maybe there is some sort of world-wide communication blackout. Kimmet wants access to the Pacific? For what? Could be any number of reasons.

Also, he wasn't the sole decision maker in the failsafe. Of course he could have just as easily meant his command staff as he could have meant other base commanders. This is what I like about this story. One nugget can point into so many directions.

[Witch_Doctor]

[QUOTE=Hoff4D;48444]Well, Kimmet called the sat phone (3rd line) with no answer, QUOTE]


I was under the impression that he only pretended to call in order to divert attention. This is because I got the impression that the phone is used as a trigger like Burt's walkie talkie Bomb.

[Hoff4D]

[QUOTE=Hoff4D;48444]Well, Kimmet called the sat phone (3rd line) with no answer, QUOTE]


I was under the impression that he only pretended to call in order to divert attention. This is because I got the impression that the phone is used as a trigger like Burt's walkie talkie Bomb.


ah, yea, I think you're right, I may have gotten pulled into another posters idea when they stated something about the Mayor having a direct line to Kimmet and not answering, and somehow put that together with the 3rd line in my head.


That notwithstanding, I think my theory still has legs. We've been given relatively good intel that the mayor is most likely dead, and some commanding officers. So I'll withdraw the 3rd line goes to mayor part of that and stand by the rest.

[Cabbage Patch]

Kimmet say that there was a time when the whole thing started they were losing whole cities. BEFORE we lost contact with other bases IT WAS DECIDED we would have a (failsafe.)
Now back to my nagging feeling that it would be strange to nuke a city if the whole world were over-run. If Boulder is over-run, why nuke it. L.A. was over-run and it's still there. If the shit hit the fan all over the U.S. and they know it (Which Kimmet states that he doesn't know for sure in part two of Beyond our Borders) then now is too little to late to contain things. It sure wasn't to contain the possible 150,000 Inklings. They were not even imagined when the failsafe was in place.

Makes me wonder if there aren't a bunch of nuked cities and military installations in the Eastern US, where they could have had time to get the failsafe protocol in place before they were over-run.

The failsafe might make sense if there were safe zones where humans were attempting to regroup and hold out. If Kansas City is over-run it might make sense to nuke it in order to reduce the pressure on St. Louis from the zombie horde that would inevitably flow east toward it along I-70.

[Cabbage Patch]

I've set up a Google Map of Boulder, with some of the key locations noted. Please feel free to add to it.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=
200372006308941683650.0004cb2bc380033aab571

(this doesn't seem to work with the URL function button, so you're going to have to copy and paste to get there.)

[UndeadSweeper]

Datu is a character archetype that survives deep into stories like this. If he's going to die, its not soon. Be happy he's advanced as a character.

So I was right about boulder getting nuked. I was wrong to think they weren't already there.......wtf??!!

Also, some pure evidence that Inklings/aldo/little ones retain memory. The former military inkling takes out power and comm first. Irwin spins its tires for hours, inklings get a strong hold in the city.

By the way, I hope no turned humans retain the knowledge to disarm the nukes. If they do.....that could be one hell of a season finale.....mission to rearm the nukes and detonate.



I was punchy this morning. :p

Alright , so they do retain their memories then. So here another question, So why won't they expect an eval of the survivors and ambush the rescue aircraft? Or at least jump one of the aircraft and move on to the next target, Boulder? Micheal need to distract, if they can even be distract, with sweat bomb or the Johnny 5 things to make sure.

[LiamKerrington]

KIMMET!!! Shit or get off the pot!

Aye! So much! In dire need: take a purge!
Col. Kimmet seems to be kind of jumpy and anything else but confident in his oppinions and decisions ...



We learn from Spc Robins:

Communincation and power are the first to go.
Command staff and mayor are probably dead.
They tried radioing Ft Irwin but Michael says they never received any communications.
Solidiers that are not killed are turned and turn on others.
Mentions that they seem like 'soldiered versions of them.' This gets Michaels attention.

#5 on the list is interesting. Is Michael surprised by the fact that they're like soldiers? As in, they're smart zombies retaining soldier traits? Could this be reason that Little Ones move funny because they were babies turned before/while learning to walk? Or was Michael responding to what Robins said about the zombies being difficult to take down, as in an Inkling?

I think Michael - as dumb as he is (no offense intended, read on!) - simply does not grab the full scope of understanding what might be behind the Little Ones, or the Numbered Ones, as he calls them. He only has second hand intel on those creatures, and only very slim and unsolid information to say the least. At the time of the mentioning by Robbins that they behave like soldiers, Michael simply does not add 2 and 2. He treats any information absolutely isolated.
And this is what we have him do ever since. Scent, Sweat Bottles and stuff? It was Angel who made the call and later Lizzy supporting it. Zombies or whatnot? Everyone called them things differently, but Michael tried to stick with the idea that these things might still be humans, at least not zombies, although the obvious literally screamed into his face.
That is why I don't want to make too much noise about his question and wondering about Little Ones behaving like soldiers; I just think he does not understand properly and needs just some time. For him the missing part is only that he does not think of the possibility that soldiers turned into Little Ones might still access there skills and training and knowledge as soldiers ...



#4 on the list adds a crazy new dynamic to combat. In reality your enemy can kill, capture or wound you. Here, the enemy either kills you or turns you into one of them. Putting up a brave and gallant fight to the death might hurt your side more. The enemy's method of killing, maiming and turning are all the same. When you take away the soldier's advantage of superior firepower (or just firepower, period, in this case) then you have a case simillar to the House Advantage in a casino; in favor of the zombies. During an engagement, the zombies numbers are likely to be sustained or INCREASED. Soldiers will have to kill the zombies and any wounded commrads (screaming for help and mercy) at the same time.

It only takes one.



Datu...'s taken out zombies with things you'll find in a garage. TWICE! Yes, he may be the bane of coyotes and have trouble shooting zombies at point blank range but when push comes to shove he starts swinging. ... A B.R.O.K.E.N. C.H.A.I.R. L.E.G! ...
Datu Pacquiao took down an Inking in one swing. Even while missing the head. I didn't hear very much gurgling or strugle after he hit the thing. Sounds like he took it down rather quickly. I would expect a normal person to present some strugling if s/he were wounded only in the throat. He could have severed nerves too, however.

King Datu the Ressourcefull. And yet this still is a stretch. Even Datu realizes the odd character of the Little One's skin, still he slices through like through butter with a warm blade. A single blow with a pick axe is something, without any doubt ... Nevertheless: Considering the anatomy of the neck and throat you still need hell of a swing to even kill a human in an instant; but a Little One with bullet proof skin? Is Datu the incredible Hulk?
I (only) buy it, because it helps the story and it may be excused as being one of those lucky shots ...



COLOR="#FF0000"]Now back to the nukes. [/COLOR]
Listen at 17:00 minutes Kimmet say that there was a time when the whole thing started they were losing whole cities. BEFORE we lost contact with other bases IT WAS DECIDED we would have a (failsafe.)
Now back to my nagging feeling that it would be strange to nuke a city if the whole world were over-run. If Boulder is over-run, why nuke it. L.A. was over-run and it's still there. If the shit hit the fan all over the U.S. and they know it (Which Kimmet states that he doesn't know for sure in part two of Beyond our Borders) then now is too little to late to contain things. It sure wasn't to contain the possible 150,000 Inklings. They were not even imagined when the failsafe was in place.

Yes, but keep in mind: L.A. was downed in less then a day - hardly a time in which anyone could decide anything especially regarding failsaves. But the com-connections with the East Coast lasted for about a week - with a raging war against them Zeds, with enough time to deal with the situation and to create emergency-plans for whatever kind ... That was one of the first things that crossed my mind, because Kimmet's explanations caught my attention as well: A failsafe, in such a short period of time? Them military-dudes prove to be a lot more agile in the time of need then one might guess considering the average paperwork and bureaucracy-bs you normally have to deal with ... So I have no trouble getting along with this kind of plan.
Still: Only two nukes - one for Irwin, one for Boulder? Now, THAT is interesting. When they decided to create the failsaves, why only for two locations? Or do I simply miss or misunderstand something here?


This brings me back even further to my suspicion that there are other safe zones and maybe there is some sort of world-wide communication blackout. Kimmet wants access to the Pacific? For what? Could be any number of reasons.

Also, he wasn't the sole decision maker in the failsafe. Of course he could have just as easily meant his command staff as he could have meant other base commanders. This is what I like about this story. One nugget can point into so many directions.

So true, one nugget, huge impact ...
Why the Pacific? Maybe L.A. or the Pacific Coast prove to be a better area to re-establish colonization? Hard to tell. But the Pacific seems to be closer then the Atlantic; and considering the much higher population along the East Coast the trouble with Zeds would be smaller at the Pacific coast line; also the climate is less hazardous there, right?
And I wonder, too, who were / are the other decision makers? And why the hell has Col. Kimmet the Indecisive to be the one to survive up to now??? Maybe to give Michael another chance to stand up as a true leader ...

All the best!
Liam

[LiamKerrington]

... I need Michaels story about Randy. It was bad enough to cause Michael nightmares, yet all the other people around him dying has (seemingly) left him unaffected, WHAT DID RANDY DO?!

/randomthoughtfromseasonsago

Also, has anybody brought up the 'updated file' from Carl? Is this groundwork laid to give creedance to Michael's "These are super soldier zombies" when trying to convince Kimmet of things?

Yeah, Randy still is a mystery. And I so much hope that Michael reveals the story sooner or later. Maybe this will happen right ahead of the climax of this epic story ...
"Updated fil" from Carl - not sure about that, but I guess I remember seeing Kc mention something on the chat one or two days ago; something along the line that these updates are not as significant as it may seem ... I may be totally wrong about this ...

[IamPaul]

Do make things worse ... Do you remember Michael saying something along this line: "I gave Tanya stuff to research against my better judgement ..." ;)

In the end I would feel very, very good if the mystery behind the zeeh-pocalypse remains a secret, because I enjoy this whole speculation thing ... I wonder if WA would be only half as much fun, if this thrill evolving around the "how did it all start?" was not there ... And the revelation of the real cause might be like ... *OMFG*facepalm*DUDE!*, you know what I mean? I could be very wrong and the revelation could be just the sugar on top ...

If you think about it in real life terms, if we all were survivors, odds of us finding out the origins of the event would be very very very very very slim. So I think in the story if we never find out, that'd be cool (and something to keep the forums alive forever with speculation and teories). That would be one of the more realistic things in the story if that happened.

[Cabbage Patch]

Assuming the humans don't panic, the situation in Boulder should start to stabilize.

• The population is locked up tight in boarded up homes and fortified public buildings, and they're armed. This means that the Inklings will have a tougher time recruiting than was the case during the initial outbreak and they're taking losses doing it. And don't forget, Datu is at large, with a pickaxe!

• Army units that were guarding the perimeter of the city will be reorganizing and converging on the city center. With the civilians indoors, anyone seen on the streets will be a target, allowing the troops to make maximum use of their firepower and making it much harder for the Inklings to turn the troops. This should slow the outward spread of the Inklings, and possibly start pushing them back. The assault force from Fort Irwin should arrive in time to reinforce this effort.

• The trick now will be to draw the Inklings into the open, where they can be effectively engaged by any available armor, artillery and helicopter gunships. This becomes particularly attractive if there is an MLRS unit in Boulder. Imagine the KODI, but on a grand scale. Let's hope that Michael shared the sweat lure idea with Boulder, that they've laid in a stock of sweat bottles, and that it works on Inklings! The athletic fields at the University of Colorado campus would make a wonderful killing ground.

[nikvoodoo]

That post looks so familiar...... ;)

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there,

@Cabbage: Your statement on the latest events is very reasonable and makes a lot of sense with the soldiers regaining some control and the people having locked themselves down.
This is supported by the fact that a "few units" were able to regain control over the HQ in Boulder. This might be a good sign; at least it was the key-element for Col. Kimmet to delay his nuke-decision - as it seems to me.
As for the people hiding in boarded up and fortified buildings: I am not so sure about that; the one guy who denied Hope and Datu access was hidden; and yet at least one Inkling made its way into his building; also Datu and Hope were attacked within a (less properly) fortified building. Therefore at least parts of the civilians are anything else but safe, because the boardings and fortifications might be to weak and only a proper match against Regulars, but not special ones.

About the sweat bombs: I think these things won't work on "Little Ones". Reason: Sweat Boulders attract Regulars, because they have a highly developed scent, but a very poor sight; also Regulars act very dumb and need to be controlled from the outside (Smart Ones, Bill Robert); we only had it once that a Regular started to act cautiously on his own, and that was when Angel and Saul secured the garage the first time (if I remember correctly). Compared with those the Little Ones act quite autonomously ever since; also they don't engage in combat 'blindly' and without hesitation like Regulars do, but they seem to observe and to understand the situation before they attack according to the situation, which will be much more the case with Little Solider-Ones, if they keep some of their skills and knowledge. Maybe they would smell the sweat bombs and notice them; but then they would observe the place and realize: there is nothing to literally chew on. I only would buy something compared with rats: One or two might fall for the trick, but somehow the rest of them would avoid it from then on - like rats don't fall for rat-poison as easily as do so many other animals ...

All the best!
Liam

[facebook.com/alexinks]

2194

[Bullethead]

I'm curious about your research list though, what were Research attempt 1 and 3?
The ones I remeber are:
1) Lizzy's sweat experiments
2) Michael's Tag & Track
3) CJ's group going to Ground Zero - but this doesn't slow the story because we hear about it from CJ after the fact. She tells Saul and Victor that one guy had to be killed.
4) Tanya wanting to expand upon Lizzy's research
5) Saul and Victor goes to Ground Zero - This one seems to just go nowhere, like they just said, "Hey that's VERY interesting! Gotta know more." "You're right. Anyone wanna raise chickens and watch movies instead?", "Yeah, I'm in.", "Me too, lets go."

I was not getting too specific, just pointing out that all research is lost any time some good ground is made. I suppose research at the colony I was thinking along lines of

#1: 'Oh wow they have a stable living situation and a hospital going on here at the Colony' then Michael runs off with all the guns ... 2195

#3: 'Oh another stable situation and well protected tower, and they have the water plant running' then Pinstripes breaks in... 2195



Makes me wonder if there aren't a bunch of nuked cities and military installations in the Eastern US, where they could have had time to get the failsafe protocol in place before they were over-run.
Just a thought, what if the "Kaboom" back in episode 1 was someone panicking and hitting a failsafe? Maybe ground Zero is a Failsafe just spitballing.

[fridginators]

@Nik several pages back, I don't want Kelly to die before she gets laid.

Witch Doctor also needs to stop making such good posts. I can't give him any more rep.

And to whomever it was posting maaaaaany pages back - yeah I think it was my comment that was referred to on WND a couple of months ago, pertaining to Lizzy's pregnancy, about how essentially the forum, as fun as it is, often leaves in a quite anti-climactic state of mind when big story-changing elements are introduced... simply because we've predicted many of them thanks to KC's breadcrumbs.

Very excited for 34-2. Season 3 has panned out very differently to Season 2. Season 2's endgame ran from Chapters 20-24, with the process of finding Lizzy, getting the choppers and the resulting part two of the war with the Mallers taking up those chapters. With Season 3 we've seen a much different dynamic - essentially it's played out over two different arenas, with a lot of stage-setting and explanations - which was fair enough, after such a climax the show needed to recalibrate itself, which it did in Chapter 29. Chapters 25-28 were essentially winding down the previous seasons, whereas in Season 2 the show took a one chapter break in Chapter 14 before launching right into the Michael/Pegs/Kelly exploration team and the Angel/Kalani sideplot (on a sidenote, I wonder if that boat that Michael and Pegs found will ever be of any consequence, or was just simply characterising their exploration - also hasn't it been nice to see how Skittle's initial warnings about the little ones have panned out, you know, with the imminent destruction of mankind and all?). I don't think we're going to see too much interaction between CJ's team and Michael's team yet. It may come to pass in Chapter 36, but I wouldn't be surprised if KC left it to the last few minutes for a glorious cliffhanger.


I must protest however if we see nothing of either Ink or Skittles this season. Really? No "it's Paul" or crazy stuttering? Jeez!

[Cabbage Patch]

Hey Liam,

Thanks for the thoughtful analysis. Here’s a little bit of my thought process, keeping in mind that the bottom line here is that your guess is as good as mine.


As for the people hiding in boarded up and fortified buildings: I am not so sure about that; the one guy who denied Hope and Datu access was hidden; and yet at least one Inkling made its way into his building; also Datu and Hope were attacked within a (less properly) fortified building. Therefore at least parts of the civilians are anything else but safe, because the boardings and fortifications might be to weak and only a proper match against Regulars, but not special ones.

There’s a certain cold-blooded logic to the concept of having the civilians shelter in place, and it isn’t necessarily to keep them safe.

First, it gets the civilians off the streets, where they’re easy targets for the zombies to turn and recruit. During the initial outbreak there were large, panicked crowds on the streets that provided rapid, massive reinforcement for the zombies and allowed them to spread rapidly in overwhelming numbers.

Second, it forces the zombies to spend extra time breaking into individual houses to find humans to turn. This means they’re “recruiting” in ones or twos, and they’re taking losses doing it. The zombies lose momentum, their progress slows and the troops won’t have to face as many.

Third, it makes it easier and safer for the troops who respond. The greatest advantage the human troops have is their ability to kill zombies at a distance, before the zombies can get close enough to kill or turn them. With the civilians indoors the troops are free to shoot anything they encounter, shooting first and asking questions later.


About the sweat bombs: I think these things won't work on "Little Ones". Reason: Sweat attract Regulars, because they have a highly developed scent, but a very poor sight; also Regulars act very dumb and need to be controlled from the outside...Little Ones act quite autonomously ever since; also they don't engage in combat 'blindly' and without hesitation like Regulars do, but they seem to observe and to understand the situation before they attack according to the situation...Maybe they would smell the sweat bombs and notice them; but then they would observe the place and realize: there is nothing to literally chew on.

We know the Little Ones/Inklings/Soldier Zombies are faster, stronger, tougher and craftier than the standard biters, and we suspect that they may retain some knowledge from their past life. But what we’ve seen so far of their actions in Boulder don’t strike me as being dramatically different from what we saw from normal biters during the initial outbreak. How much of their attack is thought out on the spot, and how much follows a pre-programmed script? My thought is that they’re doing the same thing biters would have, just faster and more efficiently.

We don’t know that they’d have the same response to the sweat bottles that the normal biters do, but there’s no reason to think they wouldn’t. It’s worth a try, and if the sweat doesn’t do the trick there are other ways to lure a mass of Inklings into kill-zones. Of course, with the Inklings there’s a good chance that tricks won’t work more than once, so the Army is going to have to make it count.

[LiamKerrington]

CabbagePatch: Thank you, you are awesome. I see the 'weak spots' in my ideas. And granted: The heroes need to deploy the sweat bombs - at least in order to learn how the LOs react to it.
And you are right: The Little Ones in Boulder act more like Regulars up until now. That struck me already the first time I listened to 34-1, but I failed to realize it properly. Compared to any other activity they had on the complete show it is a different behavior - for whatever reason. Maybe, because they are out of control or have encountered less resistance, since their number is high (several hundred infected within Boulder's walls). Compared with any other time, at which LOs were only few (one to two encountered simultaneously) and were very cautious in engaging armed humans (exception: the one that attacked the car with Briggs, Tardust and Lizzy in it; but that LO was controlled and directly commanded by Bill Roberts/ Pinstripes/ Ink), the LOs in in Boulder are in a frenzy and on a rampage.
The "cold blooded" strategy makes a lot of sense; never thought of it that way. But naturaly this is the way to deal with any real threat - why risk the lives of many, if you can at least try to put some leverage against the zombies with means of passive resistance ...

All the best!
Liam

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Hey Liam,

Thanks for the thoughtful analysis. Here’s a little bit of my thought process, keeping in mind that the bottom line here is that your guess is as good as mine.



There’s a certain cold-blooded logic to the concept of having the civilians shelter in place, and it isn’t necessarily to keep them safe.

First, it gets the civilians off the streets, where they’re easy targets for the zombies to turn and recruit. During the initial outbreak there were large, panicked crowds on the streets that provided rapid, massive reinforcement for the zombies and allowed them to spread rapidly in overwhelming numbers.

Second, it forces the zombies to spend extra time breaking into individual houses to find humans to turn. This means they’re “recruiting” in ones or twos, and they’re taking losses doing it. The zombies lose momentum, their progress slows and the troops won’t have to face as many.

Third, it makes it easier and safer for the troops who respond. The greatest advantage the human troops have is their ability to kill zombies at a distance, before the zombies can get close enough to kill or turn them. With the civilians indoors the troops are free to shoot anything they encounter, shooting first and asking questions later.



We know the Little Ones/Inklings/Soldier Zombies are faster, stronger, tougher and craftier than the standard biters, and we suspect that they may retain some knowledge from their past life. But what we’ve seen so far of their actions in Boulder don’t strike me as being dramatically different from what we saw from normal biters during the initial outbreak. How much of their attack is thought out on the spot, and how much follows a pre-programmed script? My thought is that they’re doing the same thing biters would have, just faster and more efficiently.

We don’t know that they’d have the same response to the sweat bottles that the normal biters do, but there’s no reason to think they wouldn’t. It’s worth a try, and if the sweat doesn’t do the trick there are other ways to lure a mass of Inklings into kill-zones. Of course, with the Inklings there’s a good chance that tricks won’t work more than once, so the Army is going to have to make it count.

Great analysis, Cabbage. I'm just wondering if it is feasible for the army teams to retake Boulder. I am no military man, but the conditions seem to be quite unfavorably: house-to-house-fighting, the weather conditions, zombified soldiers. Considering the "cellular armor" capabilities of this advanced kind of zombies, how many FN Scar / M16 rounds does it take, to bring a zombie down? Ok, only one cardridge if you are lucky enough, I know. Not matter which side will win in the end, there will be a massive blood shed.

[LiamKerrington]

Witch Doctor also needs to stop making such good posts. I can't give him any more rep.

+1

[Penguine]

• The trick now will be to draw the Inklings into the open, where they can be effectively engaged by any available armor, artillery and helicopter gunships. This becomes particularly attractive if there is an MLRS unit in Boulder. Imagine the KODI, but on a grand scale.

Using an MLRS in Boulder would be bad for the city. Can you imagine multiple rockets pounding the city? You'd have civilians getting whacked left and right, building collapsing, it would be havoc.

As to the civies hiding out with guns... I think I like this idea. Colorado is a huge hunting state with 1000's of gun owners, and more then likely 100000's of rounds at their disposal. I think in a SHTF kind of world the military would be looking for some help draft/militia style.

[Witch_Doctor]

Cabbage Patch and LiamKerrington, you guys are on a roll.

Assuming the humans don't panic, the situation in Boulder should start to stabilize.

• The population is locked up tight in boarded up homes and fortified public buildings, and they're armed. This means that the Inklings will have a tougher time recruiting than was the case during the initial outbreak and they're taking losses doing it. And don't forget, Datu is at large, with a pickaxe!

• Army units that were guarding the perimeter of the city will be reorganizing and converging on the city center. With the civilians indoors, anyone seen on the streets will be a target, allowing the troops to make maximum use of their firepower and making it much harder for the Inklings to turn the troops. This should slow the outward spread of the Inklings, and possibly start pushing them back. The assault force from Fort Irwin should arrive in time to reinforce this effort.

• The trick now will be to draw the Inklings into the open, where they can be effectively engaged by any available armor, artillery and helicopter gunships. This becomes particularly attractive if there is an MLRS unit in Boulder. Imagine the KODI, but on a grand scale. Let's hope that Michael shared the sweat lure idea with Boulder, that they've laid in a stock of sweat bottles, and that it works on Inklings! The athletic fields at the University of Colorado campus would make a wonderful killing ground.

This leads me to a chilling thought. I'm not sure if you mentioned it more explicitly, but do you mean that the soldiers could target and kill humans breaking curfew? This would help slow the growth of the Inkling populations. I read a research abstract, once, about a neural network simulation of a naval battle. The network would sink its own damaged vessels in order to gain better maneuverability of its healthier ships. The fighting here seems like a checkers game where one player's pieces (The Zombies) can behave like either checkers pieces or Othello (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversi) pieces.

I can see the use of KODI. If the sweat lure doesn't work they still have noise and, if need be, plenty of corpses laying around doing nothing. If it does work then what about used PTs, gear from the athletic facilities or NikVooDoo and LitMaster dressed in a Datu costume dangling from a wire?



CabbagePatch: Thank you, you are awesome. I see the 'weak spots' in my ideas. And granted: The heroes need to deploy the sweat bombs - at least in order to learn how the LOs react to it.
And you are right: The Little Ones in Boulder act more like Regulars up until now. That struck me already the first time I listened to 34-1, but I failed to realize it properly. Compared to any other activity they had on the complete show it is a different behavior - for whatever reason. Maybe, because they are out of control or have encountered less resistance, since their number is high (several hundred infected within Boulder's walls). Compared with any other time, at which LOs were only few (one to two encountered simultaneously) and were very cautious in engaging armed humans (exception: the one that attacked the car with Briggs, Tardust and Lizzy in it; but that LO was controlled and directly commanded by Bill Roberts/ Pinstripes/ Ink), the LOs in in Boulder are in a frenzy and on a rampage.
The "cold blooded" strategy makes a lot of sense; never thought of it that way. But naturaly this is the way to deal with any real threat - why risk the lives of many, if you can at least try to put some leverage against the zombies with means of passive resistance ...

All the best!
Liam


Good point. Their cautiousness seems to be the binding trait. This would make developing a lure difficult.

+CB
+LK

[Witch_Doctor]

Using an MLRS in Boulder would be bad for the city. Can you imagine multiple rockets pounding the city? You'd have civilians getting whacked left and right, building collapsing, it would be havoc.

As to the civies hiding out with guns... I think I like this idea. Colorado is a huge hunting state with 1000's of gun owners, and more then likely 100000's of rounds at their disposal. I think in a SHTF kind of world the military would be looking for some help draft/militia style.

You're right. It would also open too many buildings and other hiding places allowing the Inkling access to the tasty treats inside. But I think Cabbage Patch meant to lure them into a centralized open location away from populated areas e.g. the sports stadium.

[Cabbage Patch]

This leads me to a chilling thought. I'm not sure if you mentioned it more explicitly, but do you mean that the soldiers could target and kill humans breaking curfew?

This kind of conflict is serious business, with very little room for compassion. The closest analog from my own experience was the rules-of-engagement during the Cold War in the event of a Soviet invasion of Germany. Civilians were to be given a set period of time to evacuate the border areas. After that we were to assume that there were no civilians in the area and to treat any unexplained movement to be the enemy.

[Cabbage Patch]

You're right. I would also open too many buildings and other hiding places allowing the Inkling access to the tasty treats inside. But I think Cabbage Patch meant to lure them into a centralized open location away from populated areas e.g. the sports stadium.

Thanks Witch Doctor, I was, indeed, anticipating using MLRS in the open ground around the University where the sub-munition warheads would have the optimum effect.

However, if the Army can contain the Inklings in downtown Boulder then I'd still consider using MLRS there, even though it would be less effective and it would cause collateral damage to the infrastructure and to civilians. It's critical to reduce their numbers and force them into a fight in the open, where the soldiers have the advantage. Fighting Inklings inside buildings would be a nightmare! Better to destroy a building with Inklings in it than to risk sending troops in to root them out.

[nikvoodoo]

So lets connect a few dots here: if its true Griggs zombie maintains memory and so do all the ones he's turned. They turn the correct ones to blow Irwin to pieces. But hey! No sat phone....

Kimmet just forced one into the air assault team's hand so they'd have a direct line.

So Michael convinces Kimmet to let him go to boulder. Riley comes along, puck, and Tanya (because she's trained medical staff).... Hopefully Carl too...they all hop on Robbins black hawk and take off. Irwin is then the site that disappears in a brilliant bright light. Boulder doesn't go up with a nuke, but Irwin does.

[Cabbage Patch]

So Michael convinces Kimmet to let him go to boulder. Riley comes along, puck, and Tanya (because she's trained medical staff).... Hopefully Carl too...they all hop on Robbins black hawk and take off. Irwin is then the site that disappears in a brilliant bright light. Boulder doesn't go up with a nuke, but Irwin does.

Now that would be a twist!

[werewolf]

naw you are all wrong KC and the gang are going to a musical and the zombies are going do the dance number from west side story. via sharks and jets

[HardKor]

So lets connect a few dots here: if its true Griggs zombie maintains memory and so do all the ones he's turned. They turn the correct ones to blow Irwin to pieces. But hey! No sat phone....

Kimmet just forced one into the air assault team's hand so they'd have a direct line.

So Michael convinces Kimmet to let him go to boulder. Riley comes along, puck, and Tanya (because she's trained medical staff).... Hopefully Carl too...they all hop on Robbins black hawk and take off. Irwin is then the site that disappears in a brilliant bright light. Boulder doesn't go up with a nuke, but Irwin does.

Are the lines for the nukes sat phones or are they direct lines (as in land lines) with an encryption that requires the codes be put in? I was thinking of it as a direct line which means an inkling with the right memories just has to make it to wherever the terminal is.

[fridginators]

Can we hold up for a second? How exactly do we know that Inklings maintain their former memory? As far as I see it, there are three examples which infer such a case:

1) Griggs making his way to Boulder - to be fair there's obviously about a 25% chance of this happening anyway, due to the whole North/East/South/West logic. Or he could just be using super-special Inkling senses to sniff out humans.

2) The command centre being taken out first in Boulder. While seemingly compelling, remember we know little about where this centre was, and these guys would not have been that well guarded so it's not exactly unlikely that this could happen.

3) This is a lot sketchier, but Roman going after Glenn and Pete (I hope Greg Miller one day gets to record Pete's sweet water-soaked voice once again). Then again, they were making noise and probably smelled, so again, not that compelling.

I do believe there was another case, but honestly, besides the whole "zombies can remember some things and these zombies are super-special so they must remember more" there is little that actually tells me they would be capable of dropping a nuke. Also, why nuke Ft Irwin? They aren't psychopaths or a fascist regime; they're animals (albeit we may be seeing their evolution from 'animals' [as likened by Tanya] to 'people' - thus perhaps the whole "soldier versions of them" comment). They kill so they can eat and preserve the Cult of Inkstripes (see what I did there?). They're not geared towards the destruction of humanity per se, at least they haven't yet been explained as such. As far as I see it, the Nuke is only going to be dropped if it's Inkstripes himself who does it. And remember, for as "smart" as all these zombies are, it took TOTWM several tries to enter in a simple security gate code. I am unsure of his capability to enter in a Nuke code, at least with any degree of punctuality. Not to mention, few people knew about the Nukes.

My point is that while the Nukes have definitely been introduced as a plot element which will likely be of extreme significance, and while I somewhat subscribe to Nik's "Irwin is going to be the nuked city" theory, there are important qualifications to these theories.

[Pikepaw]

I am so late to posting on this episode I know it. I am glad to hear Datu again, and that Hope got her surgeries, but is still blind for now. Pickax to the neck...I love that image.
As the private number was discussed, I sensed nuke, but really I see Kimmet's view on it. If tens of thousands of zombies are going to come rushing out of Boulder, I would want the option to obliterate it too.

"The soldier version of them" I love that Michael ALWAYS has his army intelligence hat on (with a couple of exceptions, odd moments), and picks up on that. Even as they are scrambling to fight this threat, Sgt. Cross is wanting every detail, every theory on his enemy that he can get. Datu is a good character to see point of view from too, because he would be the one to notice the skin is thicker than it has any right to be. Also he gets another Melee kill to add to his record. In terms of melee kills, he ranks third in the series I believe. Chinwee at >4, I think, way more if you include those she claimed to take down while escaping from the apartment. Saul I believe is at 3, finishing off a possible in the parking garage, knifing another through the eye at the grocery store and finally finishing off the zombie that Chinwee got her sword stuck into. However Chinwee and Saul use a knife and a sword respectively, real weapons. Datu uses a pickax (weapon enough) and a FUCKING chair leg. King Datu the Resourceful indeed.

I don't think this would happen, but I like to imagine the scenario. Datu and Hope trapped in the basement. Datu finds a series of raw materials and tools, which he fashions into either a killing contraption or a tank. He then uses said device to breakout with Hope and shoot his way through the zombies without actually hitting anything living. Also at least one car must flip at a high speed and crash without anyone getting hurt. Then Michael says he loves it when a plan comes together while chomping on a cigar, having moved on from cigarettes because he is classy.

[Witch_Doctor]

I don't think this would happen, but I like to imagine the scenario. Datu and Hope trapped in the basement. Datu finds a series of raw materials and tools, which he fashions into either a killing contraption or a tank. He then uses said device to breakout with Hope and shoot his way through the zombies without actually hitting anything living. Also at least one car must flip at a high speed and crash without anyone getting hurt. Then Michael says he loves it when a plan comes together while chomping on a cigar, having moved on from cigarettes because he is classy.

Ah, the Z-Team. Skittles as the crazy pilot and Victor pitying fools left and right.

[HardKor]

Can we hold up for a second? How exactly do we know that Inklings maintain their former memory? As far as I see it, there are three examples which infer such a case:

1) Griggs making his way to Boulder - to be fair there's obviously about a 25% chance of this happening anyway, due to the whole North/East/South/West logic. Or he could just be using super-special Inkling senses to sniff out humans.

2) The command centre being taken out first in Boulder. While seemingly compelling, remember we know little about where this centre was, and these guys would not have been that well guarded so it's not exactly unlikely that this could happen.

3) This is a lot sketchier, but Roman going after Glenn and Pete (I hope Greg Miller one day gets to record Pete's sweet water-soaked voice once again). Then again, they were making noise and probably smelled, so again, not that compelling.

I do believe there was another case, but honestly, besides the whole "zombies can remember some things and these zombies are super-special so they must remember more" there is little that actually tells me they would be capable of dropping a nuke. Also, why nuke Ft Irwin? They aren't psychopaths or a fascist regime; they're animals (albeit we may be seeing their evolution from 'animals' [as likened by Tanya] to 'people' - thus perhaps the whole "soldier versions of them" comment). They kill so they can eat and preserve the Cult of Inkstripes (see what I did there?). They're not geared towards the destruction of humanity per se, at least they haven't yet been explained as such. As far as I see it, the Nuke is only going to be dropped if it's Inkstripes himself who does it. And remember, for as "smart" as all these zombies are, it took TOTWM several tries to enter in a simple security gate code. I am unsure of his capability to enter in a Nuke code, at least with any degree of punctuality. Not to mention, few people knew about the Nukes.

My point is that while the Nukes have definitely been introduced as a plot element which will likely be of extreme significance, and while I somewhat subscribe to Nik's "Irwin is going to be the nuked city" theory, there are important qualifications to these theories.

All very good points. It does seem rather unlikely that an Inkling could detonate the nuke under Irwin. But what if an Inkling is smart enough to disable the link for the bomb under Boulder? Then we're looking at a scenario where someone may need to be sent in to re-establish said link if the city become too far gone to save.

[Witch_Doctor]

Can we hold up for a second? How exactly do we know that Inklings maintain their former memory?...I do believe there was another case, but honestly, besides the whole "zombies can remember some things and these zombies are super-special so they must remember more" there is little that actually tells me they would be capable of dropping a nuke. Also, why nuke Ft Irwin? They aren't psychopaths or a fascist regime; they're animals (albeit we may be seeing their evolution from 'animals' [as likened by Tanya] to 'people' - thus perhaps the whole "soldier versions of them" comment). They kill so they can eat and preserve the Cult of Inkstripes (see what I did there?). They're not geared towards the destruction of humanity per se, at least they haven't yet been explained as such. As far as I see it, the Nuke is only going to be dropped if it's Inkstripes himself who does it. And remember, for as "smart" as all these zombies are, it took TOTWM several tries to enter in a simple security gate code. I am unsure of his capability to enter in a Nuke code, at least with any degree of punctuality. Not to mention, few people knew about the Nukes....My point is that while the Nukes have definitely been introduced as a plot element which will likely be of extreme significance, and while I somewhat subscribe to Nik's "Irwin is going to be the nuked city" theory, there are important qualifications to these theories.

Way to go, slowing down the Crazy Train. Seems like we're jumping the gun quite a bit on the Inklings' abilities. What do we know about them for sure?

Once turned they change fast.
They have pale skin.
They are very strong.
They have a sense of self preservation.
Their flesh is practically bullet proof.

This is only what we've seen from the ones that were turned after being attacked from the marked Inklings. That is, Roman Inkovich, Frank Inkson and the other two soldiers and presumably the one who attacked Datu.

The Inklings with the markings...

They have pale skin.
They're strong.
They're tall.
They have sharpened nails.
They have long fingers.
Bullet proof flesh.
They have a sense of self preservation.


What have we learned about their intelligence other than their ability to duck when under fire? This seems more instinctive than calculating, at least for predators such as wolves or lions.



And remember, for as "smart" as all these zombies are, it took TOTWM several tries to enter in a simple security gate code. I am unsure of his capability to enter in a Nuke code, at least with any degree of punctuality. Not to mention, few people knew about the Nukes....
+1


I'm not very impressed with the whole Smartzombistan becoming a nuclear power scenario. The zombies are scary enough just being zombies. I think the nukes will play into a human vs human conflict.

[Cabbage Patch]

What have we learned about their intelligence other than their ability to duck when under fire? This seems more instinctive than calculating, at least for predators such as wolves or lions.

Let's not forget at the Chinook crash site that the Blackhawk crew from Boulder saw two turned-soldiers on the ground. Those two weren't smart enough to raise their hands on command, or to fool Specialist Anthony Robbins, and got themselves shredded by minigun fire.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi.

@fridginators

Yeah, there is no reason to argue about what you stress there.

To clarify: It only is at least my best guess that Little Ones retain some of their former-life knowledge. And I basically root it back to their very different behaviour compared with what we saw on the Regulars so far. This implies understanding of their surrounding, understanding of the actions of their victims, understanding of the concepts of hierarchy, order and speech to some degree in order to let Ink treat them like he did (sit down, let's cut your nails, let's mark you with this new stylish tattoo...).
I also establish an analogy to the Smart Ones that are smarter most likely because they retain some intelligence and knowledge from their former human life making them a lot more dangerous then Regulars. We saw Smart Ones in action (using a fire ladder, observing and using a rope between two buildings), we learned about them from Burt and Duncan, and considering how the 'one zombie' dealt with the rope between The Tower and the neighbooring building (observing it, understanding it, using it to try getting to The Tower before it was cut) I conclude they have normal eyes as well, because it looked at / observed / analyzed the rope.
And "normal eyes" is something we have had on any smarter acting zombie so far - Smart Ones, Bill Robert and Little Ones.

About Ink:
Yes, it took him several tries until he opened the code-locked door. Right. Did he reactivate old knowledge about numbers and complex devices? Or did he just have some trouble using knowledge of the past like he had some trouble speaking with Michael, Saul and Burt (I am Paul, help us)?Or did he learn the concepts of numbers and complex devices? I vote for answering: first question more likely, second question as likely, third question less likely. Regardless of whatever question you support: afterwards he was able of using numbers to mark Little Ones. Concepts of numbers and usage of complex devices is nothing you just learn on the fly because you are around ...

Bottomline: Zeds act a lot more like animals or rabies infected animals being in a frenzy then like humans; and yet there are some differences between pure animalistic and zombie-like behaviour - even up until now. And although their is no fact pointing towards it, I strongly believe that even Regulars may, Smart Ones, Little Ones and Bill Robert do retain some of the knowledge of their former human self and act accordingly. Specialist Robbins supports this by calling them "soldier versions" - does he refer to the special capabilities of this breed of zombies or their overall behaviour? Considering that probably many to most of the Little Ones in Boulder were soldiers before the Infections the comparison with soldiers makes me vote for "behaviour", which again could, if not would, mean they retain some of their skills and knowledge from their former human-soldier-life, which is heavily, but not completely suppressed by the zombie-effect.

Important edit: Also I have trouble considering the going down of power and communication as the first two things in Boulder being just coincidence, which is why I support the idea that Griggs took these things down - either by himself or by making other zombies do this; any why would a zombie with an just animalistic behavior go for these stations, of there are plenty of buildings and streets available which have like 150.000 human brains available. There 'needs to be' some kind of rudimentary understanding on the side of Zombie-Griggs that these two stations are of utmost importance for the humans at this place. And such understanding would only be able, if there is still some knowledge about it in the back of his head. /important edit.

Assumptions. Best guess. Nothing more.

All the best!
Liam

[Jannit]

Just a random thought but could there be another explanation than "bullet proof skin"? We know the skin is not impenetrable by bullets or other objects. It seems like we're gertting pretty focused on this being a fact rather than an assumption. Bullets bring these guys down; pickaxes also seem quite capable of stopping them. No doubt they are resilient but they're still killable, thankfully.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there,


Just a random thought but could there be another explanation than "bullet proof skin"? We know the skin is not impenetrable by bullets or other objects. It seems like we're gertting pretty focused on this being a fact rather than an assumption. Bullets bring these guys down; pickaxes also seem quite capable of stopping them. No doubt they are resilient but they're still killable, thankfully.

Yeah, thank you for the reminder. From my understanding: by using the term "bullet proof skin" we simply refer to the fact* that the skin, underlying muscle-, and bone-structure of the Little Ones are a lot harder and tougher to wound or damage then what happens with Regulars and humans. *With fact I mean the results Tanya has received from the autopsy of little-one #2 and the experiences of Carl and Robbins having downed a Little One after three efforts with a standard assault rifle at the Chinook crash-side.

All the best!
Liam

[nikvoodoo]

Bullet proof is a default term we use when we really mean bullet resistant. By being thicker, it's almost like they are equipped with light weight kevlar vests.

Now to you naysayers of the Inklings smarts:

Just because TOWTM had a hard time entering in the code doesn't make him less intelligent. It simply means his fine motor skills have deteriorated. It's not like he's going to need to knit in the near future. He might need to swing wildly into the air and decapitate someone though. That's not a fine motor skill...that's just skillz yo.

We haven't seen Inklings in action all that much. We haven't seen how they attempt to protect themselves other than what their bodies do for them. The "ducking" zombie was a regular and we've agreed that was survival instinct which any animal would exhibit. Unless we can read their minds, we don't know if the ones that were shredded might have been attempting to lure the helicopter down in order to attack them. We did however see the one that hid in the trees, and continually ducked in and out of the forest line to attack its victims. If you say that's an animal instinct too, I'd say that predators that are in over their heads run away at the Inkling at the crash site had an escape path directly behind it. They don't regroup and attack unless you back them into a corner.

[UndeadSweeper]

Bullet proof is a default term we use when we really mean bullet resistant. By being thicker, it's almost like they are equipped with light weight kevlar vests.

Now to you naysayers of the Inklings smarts:

Just because TOWTM had a hard time entering in the code doesn't make him less intelligent. It simply means his fine motor skills have deteriorated. It's not like he's going to need to knit in the near future. He might need to swing wildly into the air and decapitate someone though. That's not a fine motor skill...that's just skillz yo.

We haven't seen Inklings in action all that much. We haven't seen how they attempt to protect themselves other than what their bodies do for them. The "ducking" zombie was a regular and we've agreed that was survival instinct which any animal would exhibit. Unless we can read their minds, we don't know if the ones that were shredded might have been attempting to lure the helicopter down in order to attack them. We did however see the one that hid in the trees, and continually ducked in and out of the forest line to attack its victims. If you say that's an animal instinct too, I'd say that predators that are in over their heads run away at the Inkling at the crash site had an escape path directly behind it. They don't regroup and attack unless you back them into a corner.

Careful Nikvoodoo, KC may have the Number ones wearing ugly Christmas sweater, made by Papa Ink, before the end of the series just to one up you. :D

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Hi.

@fridginators

Yeah, there is no reason to argue about what you stress there.

To clarify: It only is at least my best guess that Little Ones retain some of their former-life knowledge. And I basically root it back to their very different behaviour compared with what we saw on the Regulars so far. This implies understanding of their surrounding, understanding of the actions of their victims, understanding of the concepts of hierarchy, order and speech to some degree in order to let Ink treat them like he did (sit down, let's cut your nails, let's mark you with this new stylish tattoo...).
I also establish an analogy to the Smart Ones that are smarter most likely because they retain some intelligence and knowledge from their former human life making them a lot more dangerous then Regulars. We saw Smart Ones in action (using a fire ladder, observing and using a rope between two buildings), we learned about them from Burt and Duncan, and considering how the 'one zombie' dealt with the rope between The Tower and the neighbooring building (observing it, understanding it, using it to try getting to The Tower before it was cut) I conclude they have normal eyes as well, because it looked at / observed / analyzed the rope.
And "normal eyes" is something we have had on any smarter acting zombie so far - Smart Ones, Bill Robert and Little Ones.

About Ink:
Yes, it took him several tries until he opened the code-locked door. Right. Did he reactivate old knowledge about numbers and complex devices? Or did he just have some trouble using knowledge of the past like he had some trouble speaking with Michael, Saul and Burt (I am Paul, help us)?Or did he learn the concepts of numbers and complex devices? I vote for answering: first question more likely, second question as likely, third question less likely. Regardless of whatever question you support: afterwards he was able of using numbers to mark Little Ones. Concepts of numbers and usage of complex devices is nothing you just learn on the fly because you are around ...

Bottomline: Zeds act a lot more like animals or rabies infected animals being in a frenzy then like humans; and yet there are some differences between pure animalistic and zombie-like behaviour - even up until now. And although their is no fact pointing towards it, I strongly believe that even Regulars may, Smart Ones, Little Ones and Bill Robert do retain some of the knowledge of their former human self and act accordingly. Specialist Robbins supports this by calling them "soldier versions" - does he refer to the special capabilities of this breed of zombies or their overall behaviour? Considering that probably many to most of the Little Ones in Boulder were soldiers before the Infections the comparison with soldiers makes me vote for "behaviour", which again could, if not would, mean they retain some of their skills and knowledge from their former human-soldier-life, which is heavily, but not completely suppressed by the zombie-effect.

Important edit: Also I have trouble considering the going down of power and communication as the first two things in Boulder being just coincidence, which is why I support the idea that Griggs took these things down - either by himself or by making other zombies do this; any why would a zombie with an just animalistic behavior go for these stations, of there are plenty of buildings and streets available which have like 150.000 human brains available. There 'needs to be' some kind of rudimentary understanding on the side of Zombie-Griggs that these two stations are of utmost importance for the humans at this place. And such understanding would only be able, if there is still some knowledge about it in the back of his head. /important edit.

Assumptions. Best guess. Nothing more.

All the best!
Liam

I wonder how the zombies communicate with each other. If they still possess a rudimentary intelligence - which it would most certainly take to sabotage two of Boulder's most vital defense elements - it just seems impossible to do what they did merely by grunting and growling. Moreover, they display simple but effective strategies like hunting in packs. Since none of characters overheard a conversation between two zombies, they even might communicate without human audibility limits. Hey, that is only a vague guess, but Griggs and his companions showed indeed some finesse and cunning planning.

What are your thoughts on that?

[nikvoodoo]

Careful Nikvoodoo, KJ may have the Number ones wearing ugly Christmas sweater, made by Papa Ink, before the end of the series just to one up you. :D

..........................No...................... ......... :p

[Witch_Doctor]

Wow, I wake up to a morning of awesome ideas and fresh perspectives. Too bad I have to dash off.
LiamKerrington Rep! Rep! Rep!

As far as the other Inklings (besides #2) ducking bullets, perhaps a better choice of words would be, 'staying out of harms way.' The little ones at the reserve base hid in the shadows until Angel turned his back. Roman ran off and waited until Saul, Glenn, Victor and Pete exited the school. One wounded blackhawk soldier was trying to make it to the tree line. Number 12 was killed during an attack and the two turned ones on the ground were investigating a noise (probably not knowing that thy were in danger)

[LiamKerrington]

I wonder how the zombies communicate with each other. If they still possess a rudimentary intelligence - which it would most certainly take to sabotage two of Boulder's most vital defense elements - it just seems impossible to do what they did merely by grunting and growling. Moreover, they display simple but effective strategies like hunting in packs. Since none of characters overheard a conversation between two zombies, they even might communicate without human audibility limits. Hey, that is only a vague guess, but Griggs and his companions showed indeed some finesse and cunning planning.

What are your thoughts on that?

We know about two distinct ways of *SNIP*

Wait, this goes too far off-topic, I guess, which is why I transferred my reply to the Discussions => Zombie Theories section (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3696-Do-zombies-communicate-And-if-so-HOW&p=48557&viewfull=1#post48557)

And the result of this - again, my fault - wall of words would be this:
And this would enable them to somehow-ish organize or give structure to their in-Boulder-attacks.

All the best!
Liam

[Bullethead]

Hi.

Important edit: Also I have trouble considering the going down of power and communication as the first two things in Boulder being just coincidence, which is why I support the idea that Griggs took these things down - either by himself or by making other zombies do this; any why would a zombie with an just animalistic behavior go for these stations, of there are plenty of buildings and streets available which have like 150.000 human brains available. There 'needs to be' some kind of rudimentary understanding on the side of Zombie-Griggs that these two stations are of utmost importance for the humans at this place. And such understanding would only be able, if there is still some knowledge about it in the back of his head. /important edit.

Liam

I believe I heard / read that the comm station was outside of the city. Along side a path leading toward the city if memory serves right?
If that is true ^ and I am not just making this up (who knows maybe I dreamt the location of the comm station) than it could be argued he took it out on his way to Boulder. Just bad placement.

[LiamKerrington]

I believe I heard / read that the comm station was outside of the city. Along side a path leading toward the city if memory serves right?
If that is true ^ and I am not just making this up (who knows maybe I dreamt the location of the comm station) than it could be argued he took it out on his way to Boulder. Just bad placement.

I am not sure either. But what would this tell us? That Little Ones not only seek fresh meat to feed upon, but also rampaging against things 'cause things are just in the way? "Oh, look! A transformer station! Let's kick it!" Funny idea. :) I still guess, even if an important infrastructure building/ station is outside Boulder and zombies/ Little Ones destroy them, they would do it on purpose - either because they 'understand' the nature and importance of it for the humans in Boulder or maybe (!) due to the electromagnetic radiation ... Now, THAT is interesting ... Coincidence gets some weight all of a sudden ... ;)

[UndeadSweeper]

I am not sure either. But what would this tell us? That Little Ones not only seek fresh meat to feed upon, but also rampaging against things 'cause things are just in the way? "Oh, look! A transformer station! Let's kick it!" Funny idea. :) I still guess, even if an important infrastructure building/ station is outside Boulder and zombies/ Little Ones destroy them, they would do it on purpose - either because they 'understand' the nature and importance of it for the humans in Boulder or maybe (!) due to the electromagnetic radiation ... Now, THAT is interesting ... Coincidence gets some weight all of a sudden ... ;)

I'm wondering if they are also watching how many they are converting in zombies and how many they keeping for food. It would be a big issue if they convert all of Boulder and are left without food. That would also leave enough people that allow a rescue by Fort Erwin.

[Penguine]

Something to note... I do not think that Griggs, if it was Griggs, is turning all the people he attacks in to Inklings. Why would I say this? Well, at about 11:45 as Datu and Hope are being heard...

[UndeadSweeper]

I think this comment &quot;What do you think happened? Some got in, the others froze up.&quot; was refer to the the regular ones around Boulder not from LA. Datu is unaware that this is an ADLO.

[Penguine]

I understand that Datu does not know what an Inkling is. Hmm.. maybe I am just hearing/interpreting different then you?

[wh33t]

It sounds like there is a quite the snow storm kicking in Boulder right now, I mean with the wind and all in the background.

Oh.. the horns honking and the car alarm going off right before Datu and Hope.. what episode is that reused from? I had a flashback moment...

I dunno what it was about this episode, but I felt like a lot of material, sequences, sound effects were reused from previous episodes. Like the dude dying who didn't let them into their house reminded me of the Zombies killing the guy in Chapter 1 in the car honking behind Michael and in front of Saul. I guess in a podcast of this magnitude there is bound to be some reuse but this episode in particular really felt too familiar for my tastes. That's my only critique and I rarely have them.

Doesn't sound like Datu and Hope are getting along all that well and I must say Kimmet irritates the hell out of me. He seems like a very stereotypical commander like character who values survival over humanity, much like Michael used to. I hope he goes away soon and somehow Michael takes over and avoids making the same mistakes he originally made with the Tower crew.

Also, a clarifying question: Did Datu kill one of those new and improved super zombies with the pickaxe? I guess that's lucky for him more than anything.

[LiamKerrington]

Also, a clarifying question: Did Datu kill one of those new and improved super zombies with the pickaxe? I guess that's lucky for him more than anything.

Only assumption, based on two minor details and one major and quite solid speculation:
Minor 1: Datu killed something with a skin, which even Datu recognize as being not normal for a zombie;
Minor 2: Before Datu and hope reached their shelter, zombies were close by that made the same noises like Little Ones;
Speculation: Griggs was turned into a Little One and started this whole Boulder-rampage; this actually is supported by the video created by Robbins which showed soldiers (and civilians?) within Boulder being overrun by unstoppable zombies; considering the little fact that the soldiers and men at arms were able of establishing Boulder as a safe zone and defending it for more then half a year, it would be quite odd if they were/ are overrun by Regulars ...

So: Hulk Datu the Ressourceful Insta-Death-O-Pickaxed a Little One ...

All the best!
Liam

[Pillars]

Yes, every hostile at Boulder is advanced, unless: A) Some regular stragglers got in after break in. B) There was some sort of co-ordinated attack and more regulars followed Griggs. Hope's mention of the 'others freezing' was directed towards the regulars before the advanced came.

[nikvoodoo]

There should be no regulars at Boulder. They froze to death.

[Pillars]

The sound at 7:56 sounded a lot if not exactly like the ones around the chopper in 25-3.

[Pillars]

I believe that holding Boulder is no longer an option. At least for right now. The new order is to evacuate. I can imagine there is a good, not great, amount of choppers and jet fuel. Pegs will take her place here. When whatever populace flees far enough.. BOOM.

Where to take these refugees? Michael may mention the colony (not too far from the Naval Center).

Meanwhile Saul and co. slip out with sat phone, Lizzy, and Burt.... Maybe not Burt.

[lr42186]

. I think the nukes will play into a human vs human conflict.

I just had a thought. What if we're thinking the big thing is ADLO/Inklings nuking Irwin, but instead, Michael and the Rescue Co. get to Boulder and save mostly everyone/they somehow manage to clean up the city more or less. Then, they radio back to Irwin, and then...

"Hello again, Michael. Your friends have been making problems for me... And a little birdie happened to say something about a failsafe... Something big and explosive. Doesn't that sound fun?"

And Scratch has taken over Irwin somehow and gotten the code from Kimmet/has Kimmet captive and wants to trade Pegs for the privilege of everyone else in Boulder not getting blown to kingdom come.

What do you all think?

[2bgood]

You guys are missing what is right in front of you "It only takes one" KC is more clever than having the title refer to the fact one Zombie shows up in Bolder. I think we start to learn about the cure in part three of this chapter...

[Jannit]

There should be no regulars at Boulder. They froze to death.

Unless there's some sort of difference in the way people are affected when they're attacked. We've already seen that there are different sorts of zombies, who is to say that all victims of that one zombie will have the same reaction? We've already seen that not all people are affected in the same manner.

We know that it is a second generation Little One that is responsible for causing all the mayhem and carnage at Boulder. What if the zombie strain/infection/bacteria/whatever-other-cause can devolve in the same way we've seen it evolve? Perhaps a third, fourth, twenty-second, etc generation Little One attacked someone but they just weren't AS potent as an Inkling.

Going back to some of the earlier comments about how there should not have been any possible way for Datu to have taken down a Little One, this might explain it. Perhaps as the virus/zombie-ism/etc is passed on from one person to the next, it becomes diluted. If this is the case, the one Datu killed could have been a lesser version of an Inkling. Not quite as strong or fast, with thinner skin than #2.

Just tossing out some ideas.

[Pillars]

Infections don't really dilute.. They get stronger if anything. Viruses, bacteria, parasites.. etc. evolve. I do see your point. The original numbered LOs are stronger because they've had more time to 'evolve' whether forced or not. They have long sharpened nails. I doubt anyone turned grows nails that long, that fast. At least there's been no mention of it. I wonder if Roman's nails were long the morning after..

[Jannit]

It's partially driven from the idea that I still think the Inkling are a sort of pure zombie. I haven't been able to define it very well as far as why but its just stuck in my head. If you take a pure blood, and mix it with something else, none of the offspring will ever again be pure. Like dog breeds or something, I guess?

Bleh. I'm just going to stop since this is starting to make even less sense as I try and explain. It has been a long ass week. X_X

[Pillars]

I know what you mean. We don't have enough evidence to make clear guesses about the LOs. It's all theories, right or wrong, they're all theories. We'll have to wait on Bubble Lady.

[Witch_Doctor]

In all of the chaos of the fighting, it is not clear HOW the zombies got inside the city. We know, from Spc Robins, where they attacked first but not if it started from outside Inklings (assuming that they are Inklings) or soldier-turned Inklings or civilian-turned Inklings or both.

It would take some sort of intelligent being to decide that power and communications are excellent first targets but this is far more than of what we've seen the zombies and Inklings are capable. I simpler solution would be that soldiers working in these locations or who are connected to others in these locations were infected and spread it along their regular travel routes.

Not too sure about Griggs being the source either. His map seems like it will be of some importance, so it may be that we'll see him again.

Here are a few things tossed out...

1) Slow turners. Who are they, why are they so slow.
2) any contamination from #2?

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there,

@Jannit: I like your ideas, although - I admit - I don't agree with the the result of it. Carl and Robbins had to shoot a Little One of the third (maybe fourth?) generation three times to kill it; that was a soldier who already had one of the most potent physical abilities we have encountered so far on Little Ones or zombies; Robbins shot a video of the zombies attacking within Boulder, and they did not seem like being devolving or devolved specimen of zombies. And yet I am with you: maybe the zombie killed by Datu may have been different - or Datu may have been different.

@Witch_Doctor: Yeah, still a subject to be solved. And this could be important regarding Boulder. But considering the noises the zombie near Datu and Hope made (it sounded just like a Little One), where and how would this former human have been infected? Did Little Ones already exist not only in L.A., but elsewhere as well? Anyway: The 'patient 0' for Boulder must have been infected by a Little One; and the only available source we 'know' so far is the 'survivor' of the Chinook crash-side. Unless Robbins and Carl or the Blackhawk pilot did not hold back vital information, (for me) it is kind of hard to imagine that the source of Boulder-zombies is not Griggs.
And about #2: Number #2 was bagged in; to whom or how would it spread its inhuman agent?

@lr42186: How would Scratch know about Irwin? How would she be able to access the code? How would she ... etc. etc. ? Interesting alternate universe, Ir24186, but quite far-fetched as of now ...

@2bgood: Yeah, VERY GOOD POINT! Tanya took blood samples and stuff from #2, right? Thus she is able to do some more serious research and may even get (close) to the source of the zombie agent and maybe even find a way to disable it ...

@Pillars: Yeah, the sound at 7:56 sounded like the ones in chapter #25-3 or at any other time we heard Little Ones around; and in #34-1 we have some new sound-features of those beasts as well.

Zombie-fans: Two more days, then there will be #34-2 .. Yeeehaw! Are you as excited and curious as I am?

All the best!
Liam

[Jannit]

I know what you mean. We don't have enough evidence to make clear guesses about the LOs. It's all theories, right or wrong, they're all theories. We'll have to wait on Bubble Lady.


Thanks for the comment. I don't think Bubble Lady is going to make any big breakthroughs until she has someone else's blood to compare against the zombie samples.



Hi there,

@Jannit: I like your ideas, although - I admit - I don't agree with the the result of it. Carl and Robbins had to shoot a Little One of the third (maybe fourth?) Generation three times to kill it; that was a soldier who already had on of the most potent physical abilities we have encountered so far; Robbins shot a video of the zombies attacking within Boulder, and they did not seem like being devolving specimen of zombies. And yet I am with you: maybe the zombie killed by Datu may have been different - or Datu may have been different.


Hi Liam,

Speculation is the fun part about all of this. I don't anticipate that I'm right, really, but it's fun to toss around new ideas to see if they stick. There is so much room for debate with the way the episodes are laid out that we won't find out until the end who is right, if we ever do find out that is! :D Thanks for the comment.


~~~~~~~~~~
Cheers,
Jannit

[UndeadSweeper]

Just had a thought, is the Colony going to become the last bastion of humanity if Boulder is remove off the map?

[Cabbage Patch]

Just had a thought, is the Colony going to become the last bastion of humanity if Boulder is remove off the map?

In terms of our story that might make sense. But given the issue of the Little Ones/Inklings, and the threat they pose, how long would it be before they found and over-ran the Colony? It's closer to LA than Boulder was to the Chinook crash site, and an easier trip.

If Boulder falls it might make sense to nuke the city to wipe out the zombies there, and to do the same to LA, in the hope of stopping the Little One/Inkling problem while it's still somewhat contained. Then relocate the survivors to Alaska, Canada, or someplace cold where the standard biters will freeze to death every winter.

[Pillars]

The colony is the closest pre visited location to the Naval Center. There has to be importance to the base. It's the whole reason the map was made in the first place. After Boulder falls the colony will fill its place until we can access the Pacific.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Hi there,

@Jannit: I like your ideas, although - I admit - I don't agree with the the result of it. Carl and Robbins had to shoot a Little One of the third (maybe fourth?) generation three times to kill it; that was a soldier who already had one of the most potent physical abilities we have encountered so far on Little Ones or zombies; Robbins shot a video of the zombies attacking within Boulder, and they did not seem like being devolving or devolved specimen of zombies. And yet I am with you: maybe the zombie killed by Datu may have been different - or Datu may have been different.

@Witch_Doctor: Yeah, still a subject to be solved. And this could be important regarding Boulder. But considering the noises the zombie near Datu and Hope made (it sounded just like a Little One), where and how would this former human have been infected? Did Little Ones already exist not only in L.A., but elsewhere as well? Anyway: The 'patient 0' for Boulder must have been infected by a Little One; and the only available source we 'know' so far is the 'survivor' of the Chinook crash-side. Unless Robbins and Carl or the Blackhawk pilot did not hold back vital information, (for me) it is kind of hard to imagine that the source of Boulder-zombies is not Griggs.
And about #2: Number #2 was bagged in; to whom or how would it spread its inhuman agent?

@lr42186: How would Scratch know about Irwin? How would she be able to access the code? How would she ... etc. etc. ? Interesting alternate universe, Ir24186, but quite far-fetched as of now ...

@2bgood: Yeah, VERY GOOD POINT! Tanya took blood samples and stuff from #2, right? Thus she is able to do some more serious research and may even get (close) to the source of the zombie agent and maybe even find a way to disable it ...

@Pillars: Yeah, the sound at 7:56 sounded like the ones in chapter #25-3 or at any other time we heard Little Ones around; and in #34-1 we have some new sound-features of those beasts as well.

Zombie-fans: Two more days, then there will be #34-2 .. Yeeehaw! Are you as excited and curious as I am?

All the best!
Liam

I really appreciate Tanya's enthusiasm to examine the blood samples. But do her veterinary degree and experience prove sufficient when it comes down to find something in the blood samples? I have my doubts. My guess is that we are dealing with something that modifies your DNA than rather a bacteriological thing which can easily be found by using a microscope. It might even explain the variance of zombies or why Tanya and Saul are immune due to some sort of DNA "protection sequence." (Now I sound like a mad scientist, do I not?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_splicing

In my option, a whole bunch of people is needed to conduct a wide range of examinations on more than just blood samples. And they also depend on good equipment, which is most certainly in Boulder but no in Fort Irwin or the LA area any more.


Do not get me wrony, I do not dismiss Jannit's ideas and input, it is great to speculate and what more can we do right now?

[Pillars]

The LOs might be spliced, we don't know what Ink was doing in the devil's workshop. But as far as the regulars are concerned, it should be some outside 'natural' phenomena that turned them. It was 3 or 4 months after the initial outbreak before we saw the LOs. Tanya might not be able to find how/why the LOs differ but she may find how/why the regulars are. We have not yet been inside the brain of a zombie. But will Tanya's skills reach that far?

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

[...] But will Tanya's skills reach that far?

Tanya finding a cure sound far too deus ex machina to me.

[Witch_Doctor]

@Witch_Doctor: Yeah, still a subject to be solved. And this could be important regarding Boulder. But considering the noises the zombie near Datu and Hope made (it sounded just like a Little One), where and how would this former human have been infected? Did Little Ones already exist not only in L.A., but elsewhere as well? Anyway: The 'patient 0' for Boulder must have been infected by a Little One; and the only available source we 'know' so far is the 'survivor' of the Chinook crash-side. Unless Robbins and Carl or the Blackhawk pilot did not hold back vital information, (for me) it is kind of hard to imagine that the source of Boulder-zombies is not Griggs.
And about #2: Number #2 was bagged in; to whom or how would it spread its inhuman agent?
Zombie-fans: Two more days, then there will be #34-2 .. Yeeehaw! Are you as excited and curious as I am?

All the best!
Liam

I agree that my suspicion about #2 being the source is mostly speculative. This is due to a tendency to 'glance over one's shoulder' while following a path. The path being the likely assumption that Griggs is the most likely source of the Boulder outbreak and the 'glance over the shoulder' is lesser assumption that Griggs is a Red Herring.

#2's possible roll has little support other than arranging several comments together to 'construct' a possible chain of events. In a nutshell, it's what's called abductive reasoning.
We know she (her body) was in Boulder.
We know she was not embalmed but was packed in ice.
By the smell of her corpse she is steadily decomposing.
When her body bag was opened to confirm that it was #2 in the bag everyone, naturally, reacted badly to the smell. Just bad smell or Ground Zero Z-gases:tinfoil:
Tanya has no reaction to the decomposition gases. Could be because she's used to it professionally. Could be because Ground Zero Z-gases are part of the decomposition and she, like Saul, is not affected. :tinfoil:
Others were in contact with #2's body besides Pvt Thomas in Boulder.
Pvt Thomas was very testy with Michael after the autopsy. Slow turner?:tinfoil:

Boy, when I write everything out it sounds more and more wildly speculative.:tinfoil:

[Witch_Doctor]

What really bugs me is that Pvt Thomas said that samples of their blood was indistinguishable from ours. But what about their brains? Tonya ended her autopsy before going there.

[Jannit]

Wasn't the zombie blood only compared against a sample from Tanya? If she's immune, it would make sense that the blood would be the same.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

What really bugs me is that Pvt Thomas said that samples of their blood was indistinguishable from ours. But what about their brains? Tonya ended her autopsy before going there.

I guess it depends on what kind of test you perform. Moreover, I agree to you that the brain should have been examined by Tanya. Since my knowledge about brain processes is quite limited, the only way of finding out more seems to me doing an electroencephalography (global brain scan with low resolution) or a X-ray computed tomography (local scan, high resolution) on a living zombie. But it does not seem feasible currently.

[Witch_Doctor]

Wasn't the zombie blood only compared against a sample from Tanya? If she's immune, it would make sense that the blood would be the same.

Carl mentions this after Tanya's bite was discovered and they were trying to determine if she was infected.

[Deacon_Tyler]

What really bugs me is that Pvt Thomas said that samples of their blood was indistinguishable from ours. But what about their brains? Tonya ended her autopsy before going there.

Excellent post! For instance, rabies is only detectable in the brain after autopsy as well. I keep coming back to rabies as an analogy, as the WA 'virus' shows a lot of similarities. I'm not sure if, at some point, the series will go a more supernatural route, but all signs up to this point show a very rabies-like pattern.

Rabies is unique in that it penetrates the blood/brain barrier and is entirely unnoticed in the bloodstream. Signs however can be found in saliva (where the virus accumulates in large quantities), spinal fluid and sometime the skin and even the hair at the nape of the neck.

Another example would be Toxoplasma gondii, a parasitic organism that resides in brain cells and affects behavior and even more likely, the Ophiocordyceps fungus, the spores of which infect ants in the rainforest and actually control their behavior. Because it seems that the zombie infection in WA may have come from beneath the ground, the fungal infection seems a very likely candidate - the spores could be ejected into the air in large quantities from the fissures in the ground and infect human hosts.

It seems unlikely that a fungal infection could be passed along through a bite, which makes a retrovirus much MUCH more believable symptoms wise, but not distribution wise. Retrovirus mutate fast and often and a virus that (just throwing out ideas) could manipulate the pituitary gland or something, could create all sorts of mutations - gigantism, unchecked skin growth, etc.

Cymothoa exigua is probably the creepiest parasite though, as it actually kills and replaces the tongue of a fish while feeding off of the blood supply or mucus of the host organism and actually functions as a replacement tongue.

[fridginators]

I'll rep you but I want you to know how much I hate you for my ensuing paranoia about parasites.

[Deacon_Tyler]

You know the creepiest part? Around 1 out of every 4 Americans are already infected with Toxoplasma gondii, from eating undercooked meat or coming in contact with cat feces. In mice, it alters their brain chemistry and removes their inherent fear of cats, causing themselves to be eaten, which then infects the cat and subsequently infects more mice....and people. Toxoplasma gondii alters the behavior of people as well, making them more suicidal or depressed or even schizophrenic and may be linked to Alzheimer's disease! :D

[Pillars]

The amount of possibilities is incalculable. Virus, fungal, parasite, bacteria, prion... Some of these are virtually undetectable even by the worlds best doctors armed with the worlds best equipment. The fact that ground zero exists with the cracks and haze at least gives us some clues that its most likely not any form of bio weapon. We know that the infection is transferred from scratches alone from the LOs. And we know that animals are unaffected by the infection. Which leads me to believe that it must have something to do with the human brain.

[Witch_Doctor]

You know the creepiest part? Around 1 out of every 4 Americans are already infected with Toxoplasma gondii, from eating undercooked meat or coming in contact with cat feces. In mice, it alters their brain chemistry and removes their inherent fear of cats, causing themselves to be eaten, which then infects the cat and subsequently infects more mice....and people. Toxoplasma gondii alters the behavior of people as well, making them more suicidal or depressed or even schizophrenic and may be linked to Alzheimer's disease! :D


Hey Hey Hey! Anyone else thinking what I'm thinking? Sick day tomorrow!

Hello, Mr. Talisman? This is Witch Doctor. I'm sorry but I can't make it to work today. I've fallen ill... Yes, I know today is the day we finalize the Ecto-jism account, but.... Sir, if you just listen to me. I have Toxoplasma gondii... I'm not sure how I caught it but I suspect Mathilda Hag's mangy cat... Yes Sir, she does have a wicked p***y.

[7oddisdead]

Hey Hey Hey! Anyone else thinking what I'm thinking? Sick day tomorrow!

Hello, Mr. Talisman? This is Witch Doctor. I'm sorry but I can't make it to work today. I've fallen ill... Yes, I know today is the day we finalize the Ecto-jism account, but.... Sir, if you just listen to me. I have Toxoplasma gondii... I'm not sure how I caught it but I suspect Mathilda Hag's mangy cat... Yes Sir, she does have a wicked p***y.

O M G....


:hsugh:

[Witch_Doctor]

O M G....
:hsugh:


Too much?

[Osiris]

:hsugh: Is this what you guys do when I'm not around?

[LiamKerrington]

:rolleyes:

[facebook.com/alexinks]

2215

i believe, sincerely, if they team HOPE and PEGS up and give
them bullhorns they can complain and whine the zombie menace
and the mallers to defeat.

[Jannit]

2215

i believe, sincerely, if they team HOPE and PEGS up and give
them bullhorns they can complain and whine the zombie menace
and the mallers to defeat.

+1 THANK YOU GOD, YES. Those two can take over the world with their bitching. I doubt even Ink could withstand their combined power of the bitchiness, emo drama queens that they are. Ugh. Love the voices, despise the characters.

This has my vote for the solution to the zombies.

[Witch_Doctor]

I doubt even Ink could withstand their combined power of the bitchiness, emo drama queens that they are.

To quote Kelly, "Yeah, but which is which?"

[mjreed]

Loving this podcast. It's so addicting. Can't get enough. I do agree with alexlinks, though Pegs and Hope do whine ALOT.
I've been wondering though....up to this point, why has no one suggested relocating to a more remote area? Canada, maybe?
Also, what's happening in other countries? I'd imagine Africa and much of asia would be over-run.

As far as remote locations, what about Naval ships? Seems they would have some sort of relief ships, or floating base of operations. I know the zombies can swim, as we learned when Michael, Kelly and Pegs were checking out the yacht. Plus, if the ships were out at sea, I highly doubt the Zombies could swim out that far. and if they do, it won't be as large a number as they saw on the yacht.

If I've learned anything from other zombie media, it's that big cities attract zombies. As the chapter title says, it only takes one in a big city to start things up all over again.

-MJR

[scbubba]

Loving this podcast. It's so addicting. Can't get enough. I do agree with alexlinks, though Pegs and Hope do whine ALOT.
I've been wondering though....up to this point, why has no one suggested relocating to a more remote area? Canada, maybe?
Also, what's happening in other countries? I'd imagine Africa and much of asia would be over-run.

As far as remote locations, what about Naval ships? Seems they would have some sort of relief ships, or floating base of operations. I know the zombies can swim, as we learned when Michael, Kelly and Pegs were checking out the yacht. Plus, if the ships were out at sea, I highly doubt the Zombies could swim out that far. and if they do, it won't be as large a number as they saw on the yacht.

If I've learned anything from other zombie media, it's that big cities attract zombies. As the chapter title says, it only takes one in a big city to start things up all over again.

-MJR

Good questions. The Navy thing has been a big question for quite some time around the forums. So far, the story itself hasn't provided an answer. Maybe in the future....

One thing to note on the big city thing, recall that they had Zeds in the "remote" area where they had to set the Pelican down on the farm. I think Michael identified the nearby town as Barstow (I'm working from memory here) which is a town of 23,000 (that's not very big in the US) at the junction of 2 interstates (I-15 and I-40). And it was overrun. I took that to mean that just about any population center has a good chance of being Zombie-ville...

[Elisa]

They already tried Boulder, which is extremely cold. I guess the zombies or at least the Inklets have adapted to cold weather? It really perplexes me, how did Hawaii get hit early? Something to do with the whole ring of fire or earthquake zone?

When Victor and Saul went to Inglewood those ground cracks reminded me of earthquakes (yes LA native in the da house).

Barstow is a small ish community for Southern California, but everyone drives through from LA on the way to Vegas.