i don't know what to say to this.

[reaper239]

http://news.yahoo.com/german-court-outlaws-religious-circumcision-172728400.html

i'm just a little shocked. i kind of can't believe that after that whole thing with the holocaust and all, that this kind of move would be kind of avoided. i'm a little taken aback here. oh germany, will you never cease to surprise. well, with the whole russia situation developing, we really don't have time to be shocked at germanys actions.

[yarri]

Reaper it was a Muslim family not Jewish...the child in question is 4 years old when the surgery was preformed. The big question is "Do parents have the right to have an unnecessary surgery preformed siting religious freedom?"

[usmcludwig]

I thought this would be more juicy like "Germany's 1st annual 'Running of the Jew' parade" or something

O well- a guy can dream :p

[yarri]

I thought this would be more juicy like "Germany's 1st annual 'Running of the Jew' parade" or something

O well- a guy can dream :p

Luddy!!!!!!!!!!

[ClearSights]

Yeah, Yarri is right, what was done there was extremely wrong and this is a good ruling by them.

At the end it states.... "The court specified that circumcision was not illegal if carried out for medical reasons". Meaning normal circumcisions can still be preformed

[reaper239]

but circumcision for religious reasons is not allowed. on that note, why don't we outlaw ear piercing on children. it's unnecessary, and could cause an infection in the child if done improperly. if circumcision is done right, it's perfectly safe, if there was a problem it was probably because either the doctor did something wrong, or the parents did.

[yarri]

If we have outrage over female circumcision what right do we have to do something similar to our sons? I'm sure if a doctor was to preform a female circumcision that it would be safe as well.

[yarri]

There are few reasons for circumcisions that cannot be solved with soap/water and education

[ClearSights]

I don't see this working thought. Because anyone can ask for the child to be circumsized for "medical" reasons even if it is really for religious reasons. There is no way to tell.

[yarri]

My feelings on this subject come dearly. Once I was all about making sure my sons would look like their father so they would feel "normal" when my first son was born he nearly died at birth and as I was overseas Wales and they do not preform that surgery unless you are Jewish in faith I was denied having him circumcised. I had to wait till he was 3 months old for his appointment at the military base in another part of the country. He stayed sick a long time. It became something that no longer had value as I was busy keeping him breathing.

When I was in nursing school I was assigned to a peds doctor that felt so strongly about not inflicting this procedure on an infant that she insisted that if the families of the babies wanted it done she would preform it but they would be in attendance while she completed the procedure. she felt if they truly understood what she had to do to the baby they would stop her from doing it. I was allowed to view a circumcision. She told me 9 out of 10 times they stopped her and decided that perhaps it wasn't something that was as important as they had once thought. She provided education on cleaning the penis and foreskin so they could teach their sons as they grew up and when the parents would bring the child back for checkups she would reinforce the teaching as the child grew up.

The foreskin of a newborn is attached to the head of the penis sort of like a fingernail. It stays there to protect the head until the child is between the ages of 4 to 6 years of age then it begins to detach naturally. To remove the foreskin they use a device called a plastibell it fits over the head of the penis and the foreskin is separated by the device like pulling a fingernail off the nail bed. Now days they do numb up the baby but not long ago maybe 20 years they didn't as they didn't believe that babies could feel pain.

Baby boys are awake when this happens and tied down to a board to prevent unwanted movement as if they move it can cause the doctor to injure the penis. Penis on newborns are tiny things an inch at most maybe a little longer.

After I became educated as to what the procedure looked like I was glad that I hadn't done it to my eldest son. When my youngest was born it was natural to leave him as God and nature had intended him to be. My eldest has taken responsibility for his brother's training and is diligent in teaching him how to properly care for his body.

Ultimately you all have to make your own decisions as to what you do with your sons just be educated as to what your doing to them and how to care for them after the procedure is done make sure the doctor preforming this procedure is experienced don't assume because they carry the title doctor that they have years of experience residents and interns can be assigned this task. (these are first and second year doctors fresh out of med school)

Some helpful web sites if anyone is interested.

http://www.examiner.com/article/circumcision-s-complications-what-could-go-wrong
(this one interviewed a doctor that specializes in fixing the complications.)

http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/what-about-circumcision

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201109/myths-about-circumcision-you-likely-believe

http://www.medicinenet.com/circumcision_the_medical_pros_and_cons/article.htm

[Robzombie]

I don't see this working thought. Because anyone can ask for the child to be circumsized for "medical" reasons even if it is really for religious reasons. There is no way to tell.

well...unless you're a doctor you can't declare any medical reason whatsoever...only a doctor can make a medical declaration....Might be easier for me to say as in Canada as far as I've experienced our hospitals are very secular...even the Grey Nuns Hospital where 3 of my 4 children were born...there is really nothing religious pertaining to any of the treatment what-so-ever. No method or opinions or anything based on belief is pushed or even mentioned.

They only asked us if our intentions were to have him him circumsized, to which we said nope, and that was that. What I guess I'm saying here is that our doctors do not make medical decisions based on faith and the medical training in this country is not faith based, so if a law were passed here that said "only circumcisions due to medical reasons" there wouldn't be any sneak arounds so to speak. (but like with everything there would be exceptions im sure as determined individuals will get what they want).

[Solanine]

Reaper this is not religous descrimination as the child is not old enough to choose its own religion therefore no irreversible process should be taken on the grounds that the parents want it done. Especially not when the process comes with risks. The longer after birth you leave it to do such operations the more painful and dangerous it gets so it makes sense the judge would decide against it for a four year old. I'm about to get my tongue tie cut (my tongue can't actually get past my lips as is) and its not great.