Chapter 30-Short Term Memory part 2

[nikvoodoo]

New episode in about 5 hours! Woot!

[Raven]

Time to go back and relisten to 30-1 :)

[Hellbringer]

Time to go back and relisten to 30-1 :)

I did that last night while cleaning out the fridge. Can't wait for the next episode to hit.

[Raven]

I did that last night while cleaning out the fridge. Can't wait for the next episode to hit.

Twisted man. I can see it now "I can't feel my legs arrggggg" Hmmm wonder if this take out is still good? ::sniffsniff:: Zombie screech and gunfire:: Nope better toss"

[nikvoodoo]

I listened to part 1 far too many times. I need something new to chew on....


.....and I got my bath salts all ready......

[wh33t]

I listened to part 1 far too many times. I need something new to chew on....


.....and I got my bath salts all ready......

Same here. Like 25x probably I've listened to 30.1

Lol, too soon man!

Where is the download?!

[nikvoodoo]

Same here. Like 25x probably I've listened to 30.1

Lol, too soon man!

Where is the download?!

Probably the same place it is every Monday before 12pm Eastern....not uploaded yet. :p

[Eviebae]

Pregnancy confirmed!!!

South's fall to the Mallers confirmed!!

Who else thinks the "slaves" are the old guards from the prison?

How far along would Lizzy be?

[UndeadSweeper]

He's Back!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ammo check, but no water check?!

[EVABLACKX]

Wow just.... WOW
God I love this show!!!!!!!
BEYOND!!!

[UndeadSweeper]

He's Back!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ammo check, but no water check?!

Are they try to compete who can be on the podcast the most? Where nikvoodoo spot?

[HardKor]

This has been the season of the info dumps so far.
We had the resolution of the rat storyline
We found out what's been going on in the outside world
Angel and Scratch having a connection confirmed (RIP Angel)
And now we get confirmation that The Mallers took over the Colony AND that's Lizzie's Pregnant.

My head is reeling. I've got information overload, but it feels SO good.

[fridginators]

So he's too good for WND, now he's just regular cast of We're Alive? God damn you Greg Miller!

Yeah good episode, shame we're such We're Alive junkies that none of this was a shock. That's the issue when you write a show with subtle hints that's dissected over several years; even the most hidden things eventually become known. I do feel like sometimes we've killed the story, but that's not the fault of the story. For instance, something great about this episode was all the repercussions that became evident - Michael's reckless call to the north, the decision to take most of the guns, etc. As Glen (Glenn?) said, in reality they were simply fighting for their own asses and not really thinking about what was the right thing to do or not. Now yes it is understandable and they were forced into horrible situations by the awful actions of some people, but by the same token, they did end up screwing a lot of people.

Interesting how they say Gatekeeper's rule was actually better than Marcus's. Not what I particularly expected, but it's not going to change my opinion of him. History has shown that even the most liberal dictator is eventually corrupted or dies by the sword. Very few have ever shown much of a commitment to real democracy (as in, not just democratic institutions giving them legitimacy), not even Gorbachev or Ziaur Rahman. Still, I assume he's alive; they never explicitly said he died.

[Privateer]

So, Lizzy's hanging around one of thr bigger prisoners then? (The redeemable guy, most likley.) Anyone else think she's moved on from Saul? It has been months, after all. And it'd give CJ an opening? :)

Otherwise great episode! Seems like the little ones might turn into the behemoths. So they might not even be turned /people/ at all. Yay info and the pending leadup to the Ramboesque rescue of our favorite retired marine. (And probably Saul deserting to do it!)

[fridginators]

I really don't think Bricks and Lizzy are a thing, I just think that he's of a good enough conscience where he sees the the righteousness in protecting and taking care of a pregnant woman. Also he probably isn't keen on Tardust trying to manipulate or coerce her into anything. Maybe he would be if she were still just Lizzy (ala when they first met, where he did nothing to stop Tardust, not that he was in the same room), but now she's pregnant and has helped saved their lives it's different.

No I think that's what's more interesting - they said that Roman actually became a little one, or at least a weird super strong probably stretch mark-laden biter.

I'm just wondering what happens if they actually do attack the Colony, which I doubt they'll do directly, or at least something will have to change in circumstances before Saul decides to mount a full-scale attack on a fortress. Perhaps they might sneak attack it, or maybe they'll somehow get in contact with the army. I'm not sure though, this all sounds a bit too straight ahead for KC and I'm kinda expecting a bit more plot development than that.

[Litmaster]

Cool episode!

I'd like to know how Pete and Glenn managed to escape from the Mallers... it seems very unlikely they are being used as spies ala Pippin and Kalani.

There were at least 3 characters who escaped: Glenn, Pete, and Roman

Mallers at Colony and Lizzy's pregnancy come as no surprise.

Very likely that CJ knows many of the 'slaves' in the Colony--most probably came from Dunbar Tower.

The 'big guy' that Lizzy is seen hanging around with is probably Bricks.

And if Glenn and Pete can get out of there... then why can't my man Burt??!?

Here's the school they are currently in: Dominguez Elementary (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1163&bih=809&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=dominguez+elementary&fb=1&gl=us&hq=dominguez+elementary&cid=0,0,1366872119959622960&ei=dRvWT4DYG5C_0QGt5qmJAw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=4&ved=0CAwQ_BIwAw)

Quick Prediction: Glenn is going to help Saul get that satellite phone working so they can make contact with Michael

[reaper239]

alright, so who called it? preggers lizzy, maller colony?

[WestonWisdom]

Hitler enjoyed this episode immensely.

[Privateer]

I'm for the prediction, Litmaster. Given the Colony's defenses, it seems like it might be a good idea to get help, and now they have a comm expert with them to get it working. I'm kinda predicting that Saul and Riley are probably gonna go AWOL at some point to take care of the situation there. Unless the Colonel is smart enough to know that leaving a criminal stronghold up and running is a bad odea in terms of regional stability.

[nikvoodoo]

alright, so who called it? preggers lizzy, maller colony?

I did ages ago but that's neither here nor there.

When the "lost" episode of WND comes out sometime soon, I'mma look like a genius because I said the jump in time all but confirmed Lizzy was preggers.

I agree with those believing the little ones become the big ones...I guess they just grow into their fingernails eventually....

And litmaster: Burt can't get out because Burt is chained to a wall. Burt's a badass, but he's not superman.

[wh33t]

Yeah good episode, shame we're such We're Alive junkies that none of this was a shock.

This.

Awesome episode. I feel like I'm getting reeled back into We're Alive. I must have listened to 30.1 over 20 times, something I haven't been able to do yet with any chapter or part in Season 3. So these little ones, I think it's obvious they will be playing a larger role in the future, perhaps eventually there will be a method for Ink to turn regular biters into little ones? Oh man, I get so excited just thinking about the information that will eventually be revealed regarding who Ink is/was and just exactly how he is pulling all of this off!

So Mallers at the Colony... AWESOME. That should make for an intense fire fight. Now that Glenn can get the Sat phone working, like previously mentioned it's probably guaranteed we will be making contact with Kimmet and Michael. Maybe we will get some slick marine-like stealth penetration into the compound. After what KC managed to pull off in the Arena and in the escape from the Colony I'm betting he could pull something very difficult like this off quite well.

Lizzie is preggers, we all guessed that a while ago, but are we completely confident it's Saul's kid and not Rapists (I mean Tardust)?

[UndeadSweeper]

Does anyone know what is in a standard military backpack? I want to know if they would have anything in it to communicate with HQ. Also was the down soldier the comm guy, bc that could make or break Saul keep the backpack.

I hoping Saul finds Micheal so they can fly down to the colony "flight of the valkyries" style.

[nikvoodoo]

Interesting how they say Gatekeeper's rule was actually better than Marcus's. Not what I particularly expected, but it's not going to change my opinion of him. History has shown that even the most liberal dictator is eventually corrupted or dies by the sword. Very few have ever shown much of a commitment to real democracy (as in, not just democratic institutions giving them legitimacy), not even Gorbachev or Ziaur Rahman. Still, I assume he's alive; they never explicitly said he died.

I don't think they were comparing Gatekeeper to Marcus. I think it was Gatekeeper to Durai.

[wh33t]

I don't think they were comparing Gatekeeper to Marcus. I think it was Gatekeeper to Durai.

Ooh, good call. I can definitely see Gatekeeper being nicer than Durai.

[Hoff4D]

I don't think they were comparing Gatekeeper to Marcus. I think it was Gatekeeper to Durai.

at 17:00 they say Gatekeeper was better than Marcus, by saying it only got worse ONCE the prisoners showed up

[UndeadSweeper]

at 17:00 they say Gatekeeper was better than Marcus, by saying it only got worse ONCE the prisoners showed up

Yup, Hoff4D I think so too. But it was a very short reign.

[awkwardalex]

This definatly improved my morning! <br />
<br />
The whole time is was a fistpump with every little thing involved! <br />
Everything we knew and everything we did not get right (pete is not in charge of the...

[nikvoodoo]

Yup, Hoff4D I think so too. But it was a very short reign.

Might not have heard correctly. I'm working again so I can't listen until later tonight.

But yes. DEFINITELY a short reign. Like....less than a week short reign. That...that might almost be an error...I remember at one point Kc had said the events of Chapter 24 were in late August. It's been retrofit back to early August. Michael and crew made the call, and escaped the colony, and by the sounds of the events with Lizzy/Scratch Durai was already heading South. So unless he hung out at the Colony for a touch of time before taking over....Gatekeepers reign should only have lasted like.....4 days.....

And another point of contention: Saul says something like the Leader with the scar on her face and they obviously knew what he was talking about. Durai in theory is the leader, but man....everyone knows about Auntie Scratch!

[Cabbage Patch]

Does anyone know what is in a standard military backpack? I want to know if they would have anything in it to communicate with HQ. Also was the down soldier the comm guy, bc that could make or break Saul keep the backpack.

I hoping Saul finds Micheal so they can fly down to the colony "flight of the valkyries" style.

The dead soldier from the recon team, Fowler, had the satphone. It's possible he had an FM radio as well, since he referenced using SINCGARS to check in with their base.

There really isn't any "standard" load for a soldier's backpack, it's all based on their individual assignment and the mission. This was a recon mission, so I'd expect it would contain a mix of rations, spare socks, a sleeping bag, the commo gear, batteries, maps and a light load of ammo.

[Privateer]

Does anyone know what is in a standard military backpack? I want to know if they would have anything in it to communicate with HQ. Also was the down soldier the comm guy, bc that could make or break Saul keep the backpack.

I hoping Saul finds Micheal so they can fly down to the colony "flight of the valkyries" style.

I imagine given the distence, a hefty peice of gear would be necessary to communicate with Irwin (Probably what the Sat phone was for) And it is a serious question as to if the military has any real good reason to hero on up there with emancipation on their mind. Seems like Kc has been developing a more pragmatic military for the world. Given limited resources and personnel, throwing lives at something with little return wouldn't sit right with the CO.

[awkwardalex]

Ha! I can picture the look on gatekeepers face. &quot;I AM king! Mwhahaha!....hey who are you? *thwack!* move over I'm in charge now.&quot; <br />
<br />
And auntie scratch? I kinda picture scratch to be one of those...

[Chogidog]

So I was wondering...
What's the possibility that each type of zombie turns a human into it's own type now?
It seems Roman got turned into a new improved little one. The last potential turner was.. Tommy(?) and his re-life was too short to tell.
When Pegs and Riley were trapped on the flowershop, it was just a free for all of the basic grunt zombies and the crowd.
Thoughts?

[nikvoodoo]

And auntie scratch? I kinda picture scratch to be one of those *cut out your baby and run with it types*.

To be honest, it's one of the only explanations I have for (presumably) Bricks to be around Lizzy all the time. Scratch immediately protected her once she found out she was knockered up. Bricks has been set as her guardian. So either Bricks and Lizzy have become an item, or Auntie Scratch is protecting her...investment? I dunno what you'd call Lizzy.

But again, I restate my support for Lizzy turning Bricks to her cause especially if they are buddy buddy hanging around the Colony.

[UndeadSweeper]

The dead soldier from the recon team, Fowler, had the satphone. It's possible he had an FM radio as well, since he referenced using SINCGARS to check in with their base.

There really isn't any "standard" load for a soldier's backpack, it's all based on their individual assignment and the mission. This was a recon mission, so I'd expect it would contain a mix of rations, spare socks, a sleeping bag, the commo gear, batteries, maps and a light load of ammo.

Would Saul or Glenn know how to use a Satphone? Would they need any codes or outdated ones could be use? I don't see the military need to change them often right now,

[Hoff4D]

So I was wondering...
What's the possibility that each type of zombie turns a human into it's own type now?
It seems Roman got turned into a new improved little one. The last potential turner was.. Tommy(?) and his re-life was too short to tell.
When Pegs and Riley were trapped on the flowershop, it was just a free for all of the basic grunt zombies and the crowd.
Thoughts?


I was actually thinking the same thing....Perhaps the 'cracks' created your generic Zombie, Ink had something to do with the whole deal, and took it upon himself to better the Version 1.0 zombies. Whatever they are, they propogate themselves...?

[UndeadSweeper]

I was actually thinking the same thing....Perhaps the 'cracks' created your generic Zombie, Ink had something to do with the whole deal, and took it upon himself to better the Version 1.0 zombies. Whatever they are, they propogate themselves...?

Maybe after a zombie get enough kills or captures INK "Prestige' them :)

[wh33t]

So I was wondering...
What's the possibility that each type of zombie turns a human into it's own type now?
It seems Roman got turned into a new improved little one. The last potential turner was.. Tommy(?) and his re-life was too short to tell.
When Pegs and Riley were trapped on the flowershop, it was just a free for all of the basic grunt zombies and the crowd.
Thoughts?

I believe Tommy was just your regular (albeit very smart) Zombie. It would be kind of horrific to think that Behemoths could create new ones.

[Cabbage Patch]

I'm not so sure. Col. Kimmet struck me as a very by-the-book kind of officer, and when we last saw him he was maintaining the forms and policies of the US Army. The Colony would have to be a...

[UndeadSweeper]

Sidenote:

Greg is everywhere today. I just hear him on GiantBomb E3 podcast.

[wh33t]

I can imagine Michael and Kimmet would both agree that leaving the Mallers unchecked with RPG's and other dangerous weaponry would not be a good idea. Knowing and experiencing what Michael has with...

[nikvoodoo]

My question though: Would the Colony actually pose a threat to Irwin? Priority to bring the Colony into the fold, sure. But I don't think they are a threat to Irwin. <br />
<br />
Now a threat to Irwin-ites in...

[Cabbage Patch]

My question though: Would the Colony actually pose a threat to Irwin? Priority to bring the Colony into the fold, sure. But I don't think they are a threat to Irwin.

Now a threat to Irwin-ites in the LA area.....oh hell yes.

I agree, there's no immediate threat to Fort Irwin from the Colony, now. But even in post-apocalyptic times no government is going to want to let a potential rival grow in its back yard. Given time, and the sheer volume of high tech weaponry sitting unsecured at sites throughout Southern California there is a lot of potential for future conflict. At some point the military is going to need to secure those resources, lest they face the specter of Mallers armed with cruise missiles or even nukes.

[random_highjinx]

So, Saul and Lizzie have been separated for roughly 5 months (or, at the time Saul discovers Lizzie's condition it's been about 4 months. As pregnancy goes and 'showing' anything less then 4/5 months, she wouldn't be showing enough to be called 'not so skinny'.). If Scratch has been protecting Lizzie since she was almost raped, I don't see much of a chance that the child could be anyone's other than Saul. So there is my vote for that.

My vote for Saul rocketing down to the colony is a definite 'yes' especially if he believes that the baby is his. There is no way that he's going to sit back and let her stay there with his kid.

[nikvoodoo]

My vote for Saul rocketing down to the colony is a definite 'yes' especially if he believes that the baby is his. There is no way that he's going to sit back and let her stay there with his kid.

I'd like to think that's not the case. I'd like to think that someone (CJ) will be able to speak to him on a level he will listen to. Victor can certainly bring up the past against him to make him think it through.

Wonder if Glenn and Pete know about Angel....

[HardKor]

My question though: Would the Colony actually pose a threat to Irwin? Priority to bring the Colony into the fold, sure. But I don't think they are a threat to Irwin.

Now a threat to Irwin-ites in the LA area.....oh hell yes.

Not enough of a threat to roll in and take over the base, but like you said they could do a hell of a lot of damage to any missions in the L.A. area. I t just seems like basic common sense not to leave a wild card like that floating uncontrolled.

And doesn't it just feel right for the tables to be turned and have the Mallers under siege for a change?

[Cabbage Patch]

How long before Pete goes to Fort Irwin, and has his tearful reunion with Nurse Britt?

[zombiesurvivor]

Pregnancy confirmed!!!

South's fall to the Mallers confirmed!!

Who else thinks the "slaves" are the old guards from the prison?

How far along would Lizzy be?


Who got Lizzy pregnant

What will happen between Lizzy and Saul

Did one of the Maulers get her pregnant

[Privateer]

High tech weapons aboubd,, yes, but very few technicians to operate those weapon systems. A destroyers a nice place to hide, but operating a VLS system, or even a modern five inch gun is going to be a challenge without instruction, not to mention a lot of these systems have sat, unmaintained, and likley powerless for months at this point. Irwin and The Colony are a signifigant distence away from each other, and likley even from L.A. And the mallers don't have flight capabilities. While evacuation of a kniwn civilian population would likley be one of Col. Kimmit's primary functions, taking a fotress gaurded by ruthless men with signifigant firepower is something else entirely. Especially as the onlg way to get there and not lose half your assault force in the process is by air. And thats a lot of precious aviation fuel, and thats throwing a lot of men and women at a wall. While I imagine they'll be dealt with, neither side had the capability or supply line to mount a successful attack on the other.

[Litmaster]

Ironically, it might be news of Angel's capture by the Mallers that prompts a rescue effort to the Colony, given that an officer is now in what would be a POW situation. This, of course, assuming...

[Red Shirt]

Constitutionally speaking, that's a good idea, to have a civilian governing body that the military answers too. That's assuming that there is enough of the government left or enough people qualified...

[Privateer]

An easy way to stop a train is to blow up the tracks, and the mallers have been rather adept at explosives, lately. :P

Well, a good question is, what /is/ Kimmit's plan, or priorities. Obviously, protection and rescue of the civilian population, and secureing strategic resources, but... beyond that, he can't well mount an operation against the zombies, and he can't even think of making any area like L.A. 'safe'. Other then keeping Intel flowing for other options, does he (or the government) even have a plan to /advance/, if Boulder and Irwin are the only significant populations left?

Though The Colony or Dunbar apartmentas would both be rather solid spots for a forward operating base in the region, and if you aren't worried about humans blowing up the tracks, its a good point. Train would be an awesome way to travel.

[Cabbage Patch]

Lizzie's pregnant, so who's the daddy?

Here are some key dates from the timeline:

Lizzie Rescued, Todd killed = May 9
Lizzie & Saul "together" = June 27-July 30
Lizzie captured by Mallers = July 31
Lizzie last seen at Colony by Pete = late November
Current date = December 2 or 3

If Lizzie became pregnent after she was captured she would have been at less than 17 weeks the last time Pete could have seen her at the Colony. Her belly would barely be showing.

Belly at 17 Weeks
http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1962&d=133944704

If Lizzie was pregnent courtesy of Saul, she would be somewhere between 17 and 22 weeks when Pete could have seen her. Her belly would have started to become obvious.

Belly at 22 Weeks
http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1963&d=1339447048

If Lizzie was already pregnent when she came to the Tower she would be about 28 weeks. Her belly would be quite noticeable.

Belly at 28 Weeks
http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1964&d=1339447050

I'm pretty sure this isn't a Maller's baby, reasonably comfortable that it's Saul's, and willing to consider that it could be Todd's.

[Penguine]

I doubt the mallers would move on Irwin, it is about 200 miles, and a good portion of that drive is through the desert. And they pretty much used up all of Burts RPG's atacking the tower didn't they? Don't think they would move on Boulder cause I dont think they know Boulder exists, and it is over 1000 miles away.

Here is a thought... Is Edwards Air Force Base going to come in to play? I was stationed out there many years ago and it is quite desolate, but I am sure there would be aircraft on the ground, an abundance of fuel and vehicles, weapons, and it would be easy to see anything coming for miles. They have troops at Irwin, maybe there are a fixed wing pilot or two there?

[Red Shirt]

Question for you millitary guys: What kind of force would the Army send in to attack the colony? Are we talking like a small strike force of commandos, or what? I really don't know anything about millitary strategy...

That depends greatly on several factors:


What resources does Kimmet still have?
How many of those resources is he willing to throw at them?
What does he want with the place after the dust settles?
How much of a threat does Kimmet think it is and does he want to even bother?

The Colony is BIG. His response would need to be meted out to meet that and according to his plans for it. Quite frankly, keep as a FOB or destroy to eliminate the threat.

With a few assumptions on the equipment and personnel, (Infantry Brigade's equipment, ect.) I would perform a three pronged strike comprised of "Commandos" and an armored attack of some fashion bringing with them a contingent of Infantry and air cover with choppers. (Tanks, Bradleys and Strykers) I would send in probably 1/2 the Operators I had and as much armor as I could get my hands on and hit them HARD and hit them FAST. Here is how I would plan it out:


Recon. Start with satellite imagery if available and on the ground operators once we have a good feel of the situation. Maybe, MAYBE establish a covert LP/OP nearby and try to get a guy inside. On the ground recon would include the usual access points, soft spots, blind areas, choke points ect, but also where the leadership sleeps, "works" and so on.
Evaluate the ground transportation situation to The Colony. Taking into account Road Clearance (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3253-Road-Clearence-Are-they-ever-going-to-do-anything-about-it), How long is it to get there by track and wheel. Sending a armored convoy even with light road blockages, would alert the Mallers. Going cross-country may be required which would necessitate the use of engineer equipment.
Operation Execution: I would time the Commando attack to coincide with the imminent arrival of my armor column or when the Mallers are alerted to the its approach. I would have operator teams go in and have some outside on sniper overwatch. The inside teams would have have four priorities and in this order: Kill leadership, secure guard towers & open gate(s), kill resistance, secure civilians.
If the gate is not opened by the time the armor arrives, they blow it open and enter the compound to secure it.
Once in the compound, the Infantry dismounts and sweeps to rout out any remaining resistance.
Re-secure the compound. Especially if the gate needed to be blown.


One important point to this, beside a powerful show of force, is that the attackers must present a uniform presence. Same uniforms, vehicles painted the same color and so on. This will communicate to those inside that it is an "official" response and any of those inside that are "on the fence" would possibly shift loyalty.

[G-Money]

How long before Pete goes to Fort Irwin, and has his tearful reunion with Nurse Britt?

He'll have so many tears from seeing her that he could start his water bottle business again!

[awkwardalex]

If any of you are wondering, i just got word from our faithful Scratch Lover (who will no doubt twist scratch into a loving light) is otherwise involved today and we will probably not hear from Osiris today.

He hasn't even got to listen to the episode poor guy.

[HardKor]

One important point to this, beside a powerful show of force, is that the attackers must present a uniform presence. Same uniforms, vehicles painted the same color and so on. This will communicate to those inside that it is an "official" response and any of those inside that are "on the fence" would possibly shift loyalty.

That's a good point. I wonder how likely the people in the Colony are to side with the Mallers. Most people in the Colony are just normal people trying to survive. They seem to be just trying to keep their heads down and keep going. If the army shows up at their door do they jump ship at the prospect of rescue, or do the Mallers somehow convince them that its a trap to keep em on their side (I kinda got a picture of Dr. Strangelove here when General Ripper had everyone convinced that the people attacking were Soviets dressed as Americans)

[7oddisdead]

Crackpot prediction: within the next three times we hear from Pete, he will either turn against the Dunbar crew in some way or do something stupid to get himself killed...just a gut feeling I have, can't explain it..but there it is. ;)

[Privateer]

We're forgetting the pin in any attack plan that involves anything other then choppering in air assault or stealth by whatever special operation assets Kimmet has. Still LOTS of biters there. You move a column of tanks, or armor, or choppers, or anything, you'rr going to end up getting eaten while the folks defending the walls take an easy seige. (But, now that Irwin knows about sweat, a sophisticated decoy systwm could be developed.)

[cupcakezombie]

Lizzie's pregnant, so who's the daddy?

Here are some key dates from the timeline:

Lizzie Rescued, Todd killed = May 9
Lizzie & Saul "together" = June 27-July 30
Lizzie captured by Mallers = July 31
Lizzie last seen at Colony by Pete = late November
Current date = December 2 or 3

I'm pretty sure this isn't a Maller's baby, reasonably comfortable that it's Saul's, and willing to consider that it could be Todd's.

The belly sizes can vary significantly between people but is a good indicator, and there is another hint maybe that the baby might not be Saul's, although again not out of the realms of possibility. Morning sickness doesn't generally kick in until about 6 weeks along, maybe as early as 4 weeks but that is out of the norm. If Saul and Lizzy conceived early on in their relationship then that timing is ok, otherwise it is likely that it is Todd's.
The only other thing to consider is the whole zombie baby affect might have made the pregnancy progress faster, but I am not a huge follower of this theory.

[Privateer]

And who ever mentioned Scratch selling babys to the Tattooist: Cruel BUT OMG IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. Why else would Scratch be really damn concerned about a pregnancy (other then being batty!)

[awkwardalex]

Would Saul or Glenn know how to use a Satphone? Would they need any codes or outdated ones could be use? I don't see the military need to change them often right now,


Lizzie's pregnant, so who's the daddy?

Here are some key dates from the timeline:

Lizzie Rescued, Todd killed = May 9
Lizzie & Saul "together" = June 27-July 30
Lizzie captured by Mallers = July 31
Lizzie last seen at Colony by Pete = late November
Current date = December 2 or 3

If Lizzie became pregnent after she was captured she would have been at less than 17 weeks the last time Pete could have seen her at the Colony. Her belly would barely be showing.

Belly at 17 Weeks
http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1962&d=133944704

If Lizzie was pregnent courtesy of Saul, she would be somewhere between 17 and 22 weeks when Pete could have seen her. Her belly would have started to become obvious.

Belly at 22 Weeks
http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1963&d=1339447048

If Lizzie was already pregnent when she came to the Tower she would be about 28 weeks. Her belly would be quite noticeable.

Belly at 28 Weeks
http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1964&d=1339447050

I'm pretty sure this isn't a Maller's baby, reasonably comfortable that it's Saul's, and willing to consider that it could be Todd's.

I'm willing to think it's Todd's.

But in listening again, pete/greg said,"well she's pregnant right?" He asked so he may not be sure he could be assuming because if he inquired I'm sure he'd get a big STFU, so he could just be assuming and then I think Saul would have a better chance of being the dad.

[7oddisdead]

So this thread is like a bad dream

Talk of dead guys named Todd being daddy's and stuff.....eeesh, I'm out on this one!

[nikvoodoo]

I'm willing to think it's Todd's.

But in listening again, pete/greg said,"well she's pregnant right?" He asked so he may not be sure he could be assuming because if he inquired I'm sure he'd get a big STFU, so he could just be assuming and then I think Saul would have a better chance of being the dad.

I don't think Todd is a possibility. The very latest he could be responsible for that would be May 9, putting Lizzy just over one month from her projected due date. She would have been showing and been pukey before her ordeal at the end of season 2. I understand all pregnancies are different, but even still I have to think Todd is out For story reasons alone

[Skynet]

I'd like to think it's Todd's simply because Saul has too much good shit going for him in a zombie apocalypse. He has his girl, his mum, his dog all alive and well. Relatively speaking anyway being that Tanya was bitten and we don't know what's come of that yet. He's had way too many chances. He survived in the back of the car. He survived being shot. Then he gets to play happy family when everyone else is pretty much alone. I do understand that he's not actually with Tanya and we don't know how she's doing and that he may not be with Lizzy, but at least as far as we know they're all alive.

[Leedo2502]

Question for you millitary guys: What kind of force would the Army send in to attack the colony? Are we talking like a small strike force of commandos, or what? I really don't know anything about millitary strategy...

A "small strike force of commandos" would be used for smaller scale raids and reconnaissance (which are, if Cpt Fowler is an indicator, in short supply).
The assault force that you would use on the Colony would be primarily Infantry with some support from aviators and such. I doubt that there would be any armor support since those would have to travel by land through over 200 miles of clogged highways.
Breaching (blowing a hole in the colonies defenses and walls) would be ill advised, the colony aparantly had a mines surrounding it and if you blow a hole in the wall the zombies are going to rush it once they hear the rukus. The better option would be an air-assault into the compound itself where the infantry would fast rope onto the roofs of the buildings and clear them from the top floors down.

I'm not going to bore you with all the splendor of the FM 7-8 but things that the leadership at Ft. Irwin would take into consideration is the 3-1 golden rule (when attacking have 3 guys to their one), support by fire (either outside the compound or gunships or with dudes hanging out the side of the birds), and having an LP/OP (Listening Post/Observation Post, saul with his newfound sat-phone).

Also a less dramatic way of taking the Colony is to surround them and just drop CS on them until they give up.

[Leedo2502]

At some point the military is going to need to secure those resources, lest they face the specter of Mallers armed with cruise missiles or even nukes.


That's a stretch... I'm pretty sure the only way that the Mallers would be able to use a cruise missle on Ft. Irwin is to strap it to the hood of a truck.

[Witch_Doctor]

I cannot see a reason why Col Kimmet would even want to attack the colony. Sure, Michael could tell him what kind of poopyheads are in charge of the colony, but will he say that all of the residences...

[Cabbage Patch]

That's a stretch... I'm pretty sure the only way that the Mallers would be able to use a cruise missle on Ft. Irwin is to strap it to the hood of a truck.

I'm not saying it's an immediate danger, but it's a threat. You've seen the documentation and training materials that come with every piece of military hardware. Give a bright man enough time to study the materials and play with the system and he can make any system work, assuming it's in good repair and it has power. Add a system like the Tomahawk cruise missile, that comes in a sealed container with a shelf-life of years, and you have a long-term threat.

[Loyal Retainer]

I don't think there is too much behind his comment about his Winchester .30-30. I think it was more just humorous banter than anything else. The .30-30 is a big old hunting round which isn't too terrible popular now a days (not nearly as common as 5.56 or 7.62x39 or .308). Just like how when you're in a crappy situation you ask for something you know is not available.

[Cabbage Patch]

Interesting point! Why did they assume Michael was in charge? I thought Michael, Pegs and Kelly kept all the details of the Tower secret while they were at the Colony. And why did Glenn and Pete...

[Zombiephyllic]

This was an awesome episode!! I love We're Alive!

Lizzy confirmed preggers, YEY. I wonder if Glenn still has those cigars that Victor gave him. Pass 'em out. I'm betting that it's Saul's, but there's no way to know for sure until it's born. And even if it's obviously not his (100% white baby) I'm sure Saul would treat it like his own.

Glenn's revelation about what happened to the colony after Michael's escapade took me back. I never thought about the ramifications after they left. The colony was pretty much left on a silver platter for Durai. They went from a bad leader to one that sounded worse but turned out to be a ray of hope only to be blackened out by what I can only imagine was the easiest over throw in history. I think it'll be a MAJOR factor in the liberation of the colony. Saul will want Lizzy back (putting it mildly). I'm sure Victor will want redemption after Glenn's Giga-Guilt-trip. I bet Saul will try and get his group to take a crack at it right away having done recon already and now have 2 who escaped and may know the weaknesses.

However, I would love to see Saul and Victor get Glenn to use the SAT phone to contact Michael, tell him how he let the colony got over thrown by the mallers (insert guilt trip here) who will then tell the commander that there are citizens being used as slaves ("not in my new America, Dammit") who then orders Michael to lead the mission to kill Durai, free the slaves, breakout Burt who then finds Shirley and is used to form a nice new scar on scratch, and they all get picked up just in time by Pegs who hijacked a Chinook to get back to Michael, cuz lets face it, Boulder sucks.

Ok, Long shot.:)

I have a feeling that CJ will not be into a rescue mission at the colony at first but I've got a feeling that when she finds out Sean was there and what he did she'll come around.

[Condor]

Am I the only one who thought the "big guy" could be Burt?
When Saul's talking to CJ for pickup, he tells her to use "one of the up-armored Hummers" Apparently they figured out how to jump start a few of them.


Crackpot prediction: within the next three times we hear from Pete, he will either turn against the Dunbar crew in some way or do something stupid to get himself killed...just a gut feeling I have, can't explain it..but there it is. ;)
Not so crackpot, I was thinking the same thing.



Does anyone think there is anything significant about Glenn's Winchester .30-30?Shaun of the Dead reference? Although I don't think that was a .30-30.
It would get the job done, in a SHTF situation, if I couldn't get an AR/M-16 or AK that would be my rifle choice.

[7oddisdead]

so a few more bits after a couple relistens...

i really like glenn, he sounds like a lot of the old guys who would sit around in dennys drinking coffee when i was younger, but the question i have is; when saul was trying to sell glenn and pete on victor as a good guy..he mentioned his mom...why would he not say her name? just because the colony is a big place..does not mean they would not have heard of the hospital staff...the opposite i would think. knowing tayna is sauls mom could have diffused the situation much quicker i would think.

so we are kinda thinking along the lines of why would ft irwin need/want to go after the mallers/colony?..well assuming michael has any inkling of durai going down there..what do we know the mallers are capable of with semi limited resources? they managed to pull off destroying the arena with a half-dozen tankers and some well designed explosives...they pretty much destroyed the tower by simply using the towers resources and a well placed rpg shot...perhaps not a threat in the traditional sense, no....but when left to its own devices, a creatively criminal mind can really work some magic..(i secretly think tardust is awesome, or would be if not for the rapey stuff.) so yea..a minor threat is still a threat.

just thinking about all the twists this "love Quadrangle" could take is making my brain melt, seriously, think about it..
so if saul wants to go after lizzie, how will cj actually feel about it..think back to last chapter, when saul was talking about anime and vic started giving him shit about the cj situation..saul played it off like "its not like that"...well, perhaps for saul..it isnt. perhaps vic was reffering to cj. now, how is cj and her semi-possessive nature gonna take her new boy toy wanting to run off and grab that girl that was thought lost?
so we now have two more colony people who knew sean coming back to dunbar(assuming pete lives that long)..When(not if) sean comes up..how will cj react? and im not reffering to the news of his death. but rather, the fact that all this time victor knew...and said nothing..
the unknown factor of the lizzie/bricks relationship..to be honest, lets think back to just how quickly liz got over....todd. hell, cabbage put a nice little timeline together in this thread giving dates and all..whos to say she hasnt assumed saul dead and moved on?..(i cant remember if she was still at the scene when the rpg hit the hummer, but i know most everyone else in the story assumes saul/vic did not survive that...was she still there?)...while im sure getting over saul (baby daddy) is a little different than some dude who liked to work on bikes and...yea....that stuff,( i HATE talking about todd)..three months is along time in a situation like this.

ive also been thinking this since part one of this chapter..but since we started a "flash forward" progression in the storyline..it seems perfectly reasonable for us to actually reach a point in this story where lizzies baby is at the least a toddler. (thats quite a jump, yes. but i have a point to this)....many times throughout this story we have seen the use of what i like to think of as "traditional storytelling" elements. what i cant help thinking about is scratch wanting the baby as her own..and in the end..a few years from now. we get a prince mordred thing going, ultimately..the child that was raised to hate him is the one who kills saul..where all others..including the undead have failed. would be awesome....or it is in my head at least.

[wh33t]

I'm sure Scratch ordered Bricks to be Lizzy's bodyguard, and the baby is Saul's for sure given that Tardust never actually got his sausage in the oven...

How do you come to know this?

[UndeadSweeper]

How do you come to know this?

By read into Scratch the first time she knew that Lizzy was a prisoner. I think it was an act, the last part of the talk where she said that she didn't care what happen to her but Scratch seem to have some sense in her. Also Lizzy is act differently from a person who would be a prisoner. If she was "touched" by Tardust I believe she would she would repulse by the mallers.

[mageftw]

pete returns! and lizzy is pregnant but no one mentioned angel or burt

[nikvoodoo]

Am I the only one who thought the "big guy" could be Burt?
When Saul's talking to CJ for pickup, he tells her to use "one of the up-armored Hummers" Apparently they figured out how to jump start a few of them.



I think you were the only one. If you let Burt wander around, I'd imagine that would result in dead Mallers, and general rebellious feelings among the populace.

And don't forget how much more organized Cj was than our Tower. She probably already had Hummers, or found non-military grade hummers and hijacked them.

[awkwardalex]

pete returns! and lizzy is pregnant but no one mentioned angel or burt

I gotta feeling that's coming up. Gleen said, "You don't want to know about them (the people they brought with tjem)." I feel like it has to be the fact that Angel was hurt and dying and shot. And that Burt is there.

I just realized something! Saul and Victor had no idea who was on the chopper right? They think that everyone made it who was in the tower.

[Penguine]

The helicopters might not have come up yet in the converstation, Im willing to bet that when the mallers got back they were like "Holy Sh*t they had two helicopters!" and everyone in the colony heard that story. I know from past deployments that people talk about things that happen, and finding out the opposing faction had helicopters would be big news.
As for the .30-.30 I wouldn't read to much in to that. Dude is an old man, it is what he grew up and shot all his life. Probably thinks of the .30-.30 like Burt thinks of his Desert Eagle. When I shoot I shoot a .308, all my friends tell me I should get a 7mm, .300 Win Mag, etc. But you grow up with a gun that you like, and that becomes your baby.

[Ray]

To be honest, it's one of the only explanations I have for (presumably) Bricks to be around Lizzy all the time. Scratch immediately protected her once she found out she was knockered up. Bricks has been set as her guardian. So either Bricks and Lizzy have become an item, or Auntie Scratch is protecting her...investment? I dunno what you'd call Lizzy.

But again, I restate my support for Lizzy turning Bricks to her cause especially if they are buddy buddy hanging around the Colony.

I'm thinking that Scratch is protecting her because she wants a bargaining chip, Bricks because he seems to be the only one with a conscience and doesn't want to see a pregnant woman hurt. He even started to call her Elizabeth before she told him to call her Lizzy. Scratch probably doesn't care about Lizzy because she's a good person, only because she wants something to have in her quiver should she need to bargain with anyone from the tower should they see each other again. The only person she's ever shown to respect or care about was Durai and even then she's gone against his orders once before.

[Ray]

Michael said at every opportunity that he was in the Army and &quot;Marcus knows what I can do&quot; to everyone that would listen. Even Gatekeeper knew because he accused Michael of &quot;military-machismo&quot; when...

[Ray]

i really like glenn, he sounds like a lot of the old guys who would sit around in dennys drinking coffee when i was younger, but the question i have is; when saul was trying to sell glenn and pete on victor as a good guy..he mentioned his mom...why would he not say her name? just because the colony is a big place..does not mean they would not have heard of the hospital staff...the opposite i would think. knowing tayna is sauls mom could have diffused the situation much quicker i would think.


Tanya had been at the colony for months according to her and treated all kinds of injuries. I'm sure she had met all if not the vast majority of the people at the Colony in her time there. She was the only real medical staff they had and I'm sure everyone had come to her for one reason or another. Plus Glenn was the radio guy so he would've known who had gotten hurt in the recon teams and alerted someone that they needed medical help. Saul could've mentioned his Mom was Tanya quicker but the feelings of betrayal by Victor would've probably drowned that out at first.

[Adventureless_Hero]

As cold hearted as Scratch is, I don't think she'd kill a pregnant woman's unborn child. She may kill Lizzy at some point and try to save the baby, but I think simply for the fact that Lizzy is pregnant, she is alive.

I don't have a definite opinion as to what is going on with Lizzy and Bricks. It could be a number of things; like she recognized his personality type and knew how to manipulate him into being her protected, but over time he won her over with his general good nature and now they are genuine friends, or they could be shagging. I doubt the latter, though.

I had imagined Lizzy and Bricks would become pals for almost as long as Bricks was introduced. So I'm going to stick with my prediction that this friendship or whatever it is will cause some HUGE friction between Saul and Lizzy. I can easily picture a scenario where Saul accidentally puts a bullet in Bricks noodle. Or Bricks goes on some Hulk out when he sees that his chances with Lizzy are moot.

[nikvoodoo]

She was the only real medical staff they had and I'm sure everyone had come to her for one reason or another.

That's not true. We did not hear from the additional staff, but we heard of their existence from Tanya and Dr. Did Not Know Better Than to Listen To Scratch was definitely a Colony doctor. A Maller doctor would definitely know to stay out of Scratch's way.

[Stuv]

So I was wondering...
What's the possibility that each type of zombie turns a human into it's own type now?
It seems Roman got turned into a new improved little one. The last potential turner was.. Tommy(?) and his re-life was too short to tell.
When Pegs and Riley were trapped on the flowershop, it was just a free for all of the basic grunt zombies and the crowd.
Thoughts?


I have been thinking that perhaps the different zombies ar actually new versions of an original prototype for lack of a better term. Whoever is behind the virus could be "upgrading" the zombies trying to achieve some specific form. Each type (biters,behomeths, little ones etc. ) are steps in the process. What do you think?

[fridginators]

I have been thinking that perhaps the different zombies ar actually new versions of an original prototype for lack of a better term. Whoever is behind the virus could be "upgrading" the zombies trying to achieve some specific form. Each type (biters,behomeths, little ones etc. ) are steps in the process. What do you think?http://www.tu-pc.com/fondos/media/7904.jpg

[HorrorHiro]

Pregnancy confirmed!!!

South's fall to the Mallers confirmed!!

Who else thinks the "slaves" are the old guards from the prison?

How far along would Lizzy be?

I suppose it's a possibility, but remember both the Colony and the Mallers already had slaves, or "workers" as the capitalists at the colony liked to call them. I personally think that if the Mallers saw any cops or prison guards that they had...less than fond memories of they would have shot them on sight.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I have been thinking that perhaps the different zombies ar actually new versions of an original prototype for lack of a better term. Whoever is behind the virus could be "upgrading" the zombies trying to achieve some specific form. Each type (biters,behomeths, little ones etc. ) are steps in the process. What do you think?

I do believe they are Lizzy's Little Ones all grown up. I don't think it was intended for them to remain little all through their life cycle. It seems to me that Pin Stripes is tinkering with the virus that created these zombies. I think he's mutating it to create different forms of zombies. Hell, from the sound of it, these little ones kind of resemble him, except he's outfitted them with talons. It could be they are clones of him, or offspring?

Edit/Addition
I'm also beginning to wonder about something Kalani said. He told that the biters in Hawaii were a lot nastier and meaner. Could that be because they didn't have a leader to hold them back? We've heard Pin Stripes give commands to withdraw and to halt attacks. Perhaps they seemed meaner in Hawaii because they weren't being commanded but rather were just a bunch of free willed roamers, attacking to try to satisfy an insatiable hunger for living flesh?

[Ray]

That's not true. We did not hear from the additional staff, but we heard of their existence from Tanya and Dr. Did Not Know Better Than to Listen To Scratch was definitely a Colony doctor. A Maller doctor would definitely know to stay out of Scratch's way.

I must have missed that they had a honest to god doctor that was treating people regularly. In Chapter 19 part 2 of 3 at about 7:40 Pegs asks if it is just Tanya and Hope, and Tanya says it is but there are a few nurses when things get really bad but most have gone home already. If there was a trained doctor and not just her as a vet I'm sure that she would have said something about him. In Chapter 19 part 1 at 13:15 Marcus says she's not the only medical authority around any more, that probably being him, but I would've thought they'd have him fix Michael and not Tanya, especially since Marcus didn't want Hope around and Tanya wasn't a "real" doctor. I don't think he had been there very long since the agreement to allow Hope work at the hospital wasn't done with Marcus' approval and he threatened to take that away from her by redoing their contract. It doesn't sound like he came into the Colony until that point and wasn't treating everyone regularly by that time. Seems to me he would have sent Tanya packing for everything but the most minor things to deal with at the time that the group has gotten there because Tanya wasn't a real doctor and with him around they would've have one much better trained and knowledgeable than here. That's why I worded it that way even though there was a real doctor at the time we heard that exchange between Tanya and Marcus. That still doesn't mean that everyone didn't know her since around the time of Michael, Pegs and Kelly showing up they only had her to treat people. Everyone had to have known her, including Glenn and Pete. Glenn especially since he ran all communications and knew where to send people that were hurt on missions.

[Ray]

As cold hearted as Scratch is, I don't think she'd kill a pregnant woman's unborn child. She may kill Lizzy at some point and try to save the baby, but I think simply for the fact that Lizzy is pregnant, she is alive.

I don't have a definite opinion as to what is going on with Lizzy and Bricks. It could be a number of things; like she recognized his personality type and knew how to manipulate him into being her protected, but over time he won her over with his general good nature and now they are genuine friends, or they could be shagging. I doubt the latter, though.

I had imagined Lizzy and Bricks would become pals for almost as long as Bricks was introduced. So I'm going to stick with my prediction that this friendship or whatever it is will cause some HUGE friction between Saul and Lizzy. I can easily picture a scenario where Saul accidentally puts a bullet in Bricks noodle. Or Bricks goes on some Hulk out when he sees that his chances with Lizzy are moot.

Yeah, he could be like Lennie from Of Mice and Men. Needs something pretty around to pet. I think Scratch is that cold though, she was more than willing to kill 30 odd people that she could capture and use simply because they "stole" a truck from them, Pegs killed her brother while defending herself and Michael from their attacks on the Tower, and Latch mentioned she beat some dude severely simply for staring at her scar in some store. She's a murderous criminal and I do think she's that cold, I think that she would kill Lizzy while she was pregnant if it could be used to force compliance from someone that came from the Tower (including and most definitely Saul), and that the only person she's ever shown emotion for was her brother whom she let take the fall for her own good. While she pushed back at his taking the rap for her and not spending a "real" amount of time in solitary she did hold that and the fact she busted them all out of prison over his head even though she was his blood. Her alliance seems to be centered to this mysterious family she's been talking about and to a lesser degree Durai. I think she only has fealty to Durai because he's part of this family network and not because she fears or respects him. She didn't tell him about attacking the Tower the second time as Lizzy realized by being a therapist. I really don't think she will kill Lizzy while she's pregnant, but I wouldn't put it past her after what she's done already. Not saying what she's doing or has done has been either right or wrong, but I don't think she's above it however distasteful it may be or how much she might not want to lose that bargaining chip.

[HorrorHiro]

I'm for the prediction, Litmaster. Given the Colony's defenses, it seems like it might be a good idea to get help, and now they have a comm expert with them to get it working. I'm kinda predicting that Saul and Riley are probably gonna go AWOL at some point to take care of the situation there. Unless the Colonel is smart enough to know that leaving a criminal stronghold up and running is a bad odea in terms of regional stability.

How would the Colonel know anything about the Colony or the Mallers and what they're up to? Nobody at the base has any up-to-date info about either.

[Cabbage Patch]

How would the Colonel know anything about the Colony or the Mallers and what they're up to? Nobody at the base has any up-to-date info about either.

Don't forget that it's been three months. By this point Michael should have shared his intel on the subject and there has been plenty of opportunity for the military to conduct intelligence gathering operations to fill in the picture.

[IamPaul]

Awesome episode. Nice to see Pete and Glenn back. First listen I thought maybe Lizzy was with Durai, then second listen I thought maybe Burt. Then I thought, there is no way Scratch lets burt out, then duh! As above posts said, Bricks. He has always been very protective of Lizzy. Looks like shit is going to be picking up real soon! I cannot wait. And maybe Glenn can figure out that radio and we will get contact with Michael and Fort Irwin. The little ones are getting scarier and scarier. Now Ink need to create a breed that is more resistant to bullets.

[HorrorHiro]

If Micheal has shared what he knows it doesn't make much of a difference (considering he doesn't know much about either the Mallers and or the Colony, or the fact that the two are one now.) The most...

[Ray]

There's the fact that they have Boulder too though. Any mention of 150k or so people that are completely safe and well cared for, I'm betting the Colony residents would turn on the Mallers at the drop of a hat. Especially if the military guys didn't force them into coming with them. All they'd have to say is "stay here and fight us, or go to Boulder where it's safe and we'll take you there." Take it or leave it, I'm betting most would take that in a heartbeat.

[HorrorHiro]

There's the fact that they have Boulder too though. Any mention of 150k or so people that are completely safe and well cared for, I'm betting the Colony residents would turn on the Mallers at the drop of a hat. Especially if the military guys didn't force them into coming with them. All they'd have to say is "stay here and fight us, or go to Boulder where it's safe and we'll take you there." Take it or leave it, I'm betting most would take that in a heartbeat.

This is where the inevitable brainwashing comes in, the people at the Colony seem to believe whatever anyone who comes into power there says (which makes sense if yo think about it.) I'm sure the Mallers could convince the people at the Colony that the military was just going to kill them, regardless if they fought for the Colony, or not; and the Colony's population would believe it. Yeah some people might escape and realize that what the Mallers told all of them was nothing but lies, but I could only see a few people doing this.

And it would be pretty simple really, The Mallers/Colony would just have to defend themselves from the squads of soldiers. And at most all they would have to do is takeout the personnel at the fort, remember when contact with the other forts and bases were lost they didn't bother trying to find out what might have happened. This wouldn't be the case for Fort Irwin obviously, but if the Mallers/Colony were able to take over the base they could easily kill takeout any military forces sent from Boulder City, after all there are hundreds of thousands of people there that need to be protected. I think that they would just give up on the fort after the 1st plane of reinforcements never came back.

BTW, I don't think any of this will actually happen. I'm just speculating on could happen.

[Cabbage Patch]

This is where the inevitable brainwashing comes in, the people at the Colony seem to believe whatever anyone who comes into power there says (which makes sense if yo think about it.) I'm sure the Mallers could convince the people at the Colony that the military was just going to kill them, regardless if they fought for the Colony, or not; and the Colony's population would believe it. Yeah some people might escape and realize that what the Mallers told all of them was nothing but lies, but I could only see a few people doing this.

You've highlighted a key reason why the military is going to need to move against the Mallers/Colony sooner, rather than later. The longer the Mallers have to consolidate their position the harder it's going to be to remove them from power. And the longer they have a secure base the more likely it is that they're going to find, and learn how to use heavy military-grade weapons, and capture key resources that are going to make them more of a threat to Fort Irwin and Boulder.

[zombiesurvivor]

I'd like to think that's not the case. I'd like to think that someone (CJ) will be able to speak to him on a level he will listen to. Victor can certainly bring up the past against him to make him think it through.

Wonder if Glenn and Pete know about Angel....



They probably dont know bout Angel

[nikvoodoo]

They probably dont know bout Angel

Why do you think that?

[COsurvivor]

why would Scratch tell them? And besides they never met him... Let alone know who he even is...

[nikvoodoo]

why would Scratch tell them? And besides they never met him... Let alone know who he even is...

Word travels fast around the colony. People know things they shouldn't necessarily know.

[Witch_Doctor]

That's not true. We did not hear from the additional staff, but we heard of their existence from Tanya and Dr. Did Not Know Better Than to Listen To Scratch was definitely a Colony doctor. A Maller doctor would definitely know to stay out of Scratch's way.


Right, and Tanya says to Saul in "About Last Night" that she has worked with human doctors and learned a lot from them, working on human patients. She says this when they are arguing about her qualifications to treat humans.

Also, Marcus threatens to review Tanya's contract as she is no longer the only medical expert in the Colony.




Originally Posted by Ray View Post
She was the only real medical staff they had and I'm sure everyone had come to her for one reason or another.

[Witch_Doctor]

My question though: Would the Colony actually pose a threat to Irwin? Priority to bring the Colony into the fold, sure. But I don't think they are a threat to Irwin.

Now a threat to Irwin-ites in the LA area.....oh hell yes.

Exactly! The only complicating factors involving an Irwin-Colony/Maller conflict would be (A) the dangers faced by our heroes, the Tower Folk, during a conflict and (2) whatever complexities the zombies bring to the table.

The Colony poses no threat to Ft Irwin unless it involves zombies. Hey, who knows, there might still be some sort of confrontation between the two groups but the real trick will be for our heroes to pull it off without getting their friends killed in the process. This story is about them, after all.

There are a lot of Tom-Clancy-esque, over-simplified ideas of why Col. Kimmet will feel compelled to attack the Colony or how the Mallers are some sort of 21st century Mongol Horde that sound just plain silly. So far KC hasn't written a crappy story and I doubt he'll start now. I enjoy speculating as much as the next guy but, even more so, I enjoy the surprises that come with each week's episode and the cliffhangers that start a new week's worth of speculating.

[GodofInsanity]

Ok, I think it is more than likely a given if there was any assault on the Colony from Ft Irwin it would be airborne. Remember the largest reason they flew to Irwin was because the freeways out were clogged. Also resources are limited such as fuel for helicoters. There are supplies that can be found and probably have already been found and tagged but a large assault would suck down alot of fuel. So if there was a rescue or assault it would be a small team.

Now that is even if Kimmet feels the Mallers are a threat. With that distance he could easily decide to keep then under observation and deal with them if they become a threat. And I can understand the idea of the Mallers maybe getting ahold of some heavy military hardware. But lets not get too crazy with the idea of long range missles and such. There is a fair amount of logistics as well as training to use these types of weapons. In my humble opinion I think we could see them get ahold of a helicopter as well or even some armored equipment though I feel even a tank will be pushing the limits of the Mallers abilities. But with any ground equipment they would run into the same problems a Ft Irwin ground assault force would have with distance and the logistics of a move that far.

I am definitely in with Lizzie being preggars with Sauls kid. Forget this Todd guy who became zombie chow with in 30 seconds of his appearance on the show. And even so, IF it was his, Saul would be all in because it was Lizzie.

[HorrorHiro]

Ok, I think it is more than likely a given if there was any assault on the Colony from Ft Irwin it would be airborne. Remember the largest reason they flew to Irwin was because the freeways out were clogged. Also resources are limited such as fuel for helicoters. There are supplies that can be found and probably have already been found and tagged but a large assault would suck down alot of fuel. So if there was a rescue or assault it would be a small team.

Now that is even if Kimmet feels the Mallers are a threat. With that distance he could easily decide to keep then under observation and deal with them if they become a threat. And I can understand the idea of the Mallers maybe getting ahold of some heavy military hardware. But lets not get too crazy with the idea of long range missles and such. There is a fair amount of logistics as well as training to use these types of weapons. In my humble opinion I think we could see them get ahold of a helicopter as well or even some armored equipment though I feel even a tank will be pushing the limits of the Mallers abilities. But with any ground equipment they would run into the same problems a Ft Irwin ground assault force would have with distance and the logistics of a move that far.

I am definitely in with Lizzie being preggars with Sauls kid. Forget this Todd guy who became zombie chow with in 30 seconds of his appearance on the show. And even so, IF it was his, Saul would be all in because it was Lizzie.
Remember the Mallers never had the same issues that the Tower residents and other groups had (most likely because of their numbers and tactics.) The Mallers have moved entire convoys through the streets, it has been mentioned that the Mallers "scouts" (as Tardust called them) are responsible with clearing the clogged roadways.

And I couldn't see the Mallers with tanks, but they have made armored vehicles before (remember the final assault on the tower?) Imagine a similar giant armored truck, or several of them, but instead of being giant bombs they are gun trucks (http://www.hdwallpapercar.com/wp-content/plugins/RSSPoster_PRO/cache/6c743_jesper_andersen_07.jpg) instead.

[Connor]

I have a quick theory on what may happen with the Lizzy situation at The Colony. When Pete refers to her as the the girl that's always around the big guy, perhaps this is showing that she is now either has feelings or is in love with Bricks? It has been 5 months since last we heard from Saul, even longer since she got kidnapped. Bricks saved her life on More that one occasion. Maybe she has a case of severe Stockholm Syndrome? People have certainly been known to switch their lovers faster than 5+ months. Another piece of evidence is that Pete says "She doesn't act like a slave." Maybe it's because she is pregnant and can't work, or maybe it's because Bricks has her back again. I'm really not sure what is going to happen, but it will certainly make for a good hair raiser to see how this will effect Saul's and CJ's relationship if Lizzy fell out of love.

[fridginators]

The Mallers aren't suicidal, they know a hell of a lot better than to attack a military base (which they don't even know where it is) with 200~ armed, trained, personnel. They got their asses kicked by four soldiers and a bunch of civilians before. If they are attacking, they have an ace up their sleeve. Anyway I think this is really useless speculation. We just don't know anything right now.

[reaper239]

Remember the Mallers never had the same issues that the Tower residents and other groups had (most likely because of their numbers and tactics.) The Mallers have moved entire convoys through the streets, it has been mentioned that the Mallers "scouts" (as Tardust called them) are responsible with clearing the clogged roadways.

And I couldn't see the Mallers with tanks, but they have made armored vehicles before (remember the final assault on the tower?) Imagine a similar giant armored truck, or several of them, but instead of being giant bombs they are gun trucks (http://www.hdwallpapercar.com/wp-content/plugins/RSSPoster_PRO/cache/6c743_jesper_andersen_07.jpg) instead.

the difference is that the mallers never left LA (i think the colony is still within the city limits right?) so they didn't have to deal with the highway. the only way to move an assault force to the colony on any kind of acceptable timetable would be by air otherwise it would take too long.

[HorrorHiro]

the difference is that the mallers never left LA (i think the colony is still within the city limits right?) so they didn't have to deal with the highway. the only way to move an assault force to the colony on any kind of acceptable timetable would be by air otherwise it would take too long.

Good point, at the very least by the time the Mallers/Colony cleared a path to the fort the personnel at the fort would be ready and waiting for an attack.

[HorrorHiro]

The Mallers aren't suicidal, they know a hell of a lot better than to attack a military base (which they don't even know where it is) with 200~ armed, trained, personnel. They got their asses kicked by four soldiers and a bunch of civilians before. If they are attacking, they have an ace up their sleeve. Anyway I think this is really useless speculation. We just don't know anything right now.

So how much information is needed to make speculation not "useless" in your opinion.

[nikvoodoo]

I have a quick theory on what may happen with the Lizzy situation at The Colony. When Pete refers to her as the the girl that's always around the big guy, perhaps this is showing that she is now either has feelings or is in love with Bricks? It has been 5 months since last we heard from Saul, even longer since she got kidnapped. Bricks saved her life on More that one occasion. Maybe she has a case of severe Stockholm Syndrome? People have certainly been known to switch their lovers faster than 5+ months. Another piece of evidence is that Pete says "She doesn't act like a slave." Maybe it's because she is pregnant and can't work, or maybe it's because Bricks has her back again. I'm really not sure what is going to happen, but it will certainly make for a good hair raiser to see how this will effect Saul's and CJ's relationship if Lizzy fell out of love.

Welcome to the forums!

I'm going to merge your thread into the larger conversation about 30-2. Generally speaking, we keep those thoughts together instead of breaking them out, especially with reactions to chapter content. Not to say it's always right to have it there, but that's where most of it starts.

You could also post it in the theories section....this could work under both Maller/Colony/Other theories, or Story theories.....hell it might even fit under Tower Member theories since it deals mostly with Lizzy.

[UndeadSweeper]

Why do you think that?

I'm thinking the same thing. When it comes to some information they seem to keep tight lips. We never knew about the plan to destroy arena until the last moment or the attack to tower. Nor did we know about their radio equipment or who redhead girl was until we were told later on. I guess they move Burt and Angel right in the hospital and have a watchmen on them to keep other out.

[Witch_Doctor]

I have a quick theory on what may happen with the Lizzy situation at The Colony.... Pete says "She doesn't act like a slave." Maybe it's because she is pregnant and can't work, or maybe it's because Bricks has her back again....

Pete is talking about the convicts when he says this. Sauls asks if there was a tall, skinny blonde female slave working in the fields.
Pete says to Glenn, "What about the one who's always hanging around that big guy?"
Glenn, "I thought she was one of the prisoners."
Pete, " Uh, me too but maybe not. She doesn't act like one of them."

Now, when they say 'prisoners' they are not talking about the Mallers' slaves. They are talking about the Mallers. Glenn refers to the Mallers as a group of prisoners when he discusses who took over the Colony.

[MenashaCorpse]

Dr. Did Not Know Better Than to Listen To Scratch was definitely a Colony doctor. A Maller doctor would definitely know to stay out of Scratch's way.

I've got to order some new business cards. ;^)

[nikvoodoo]

I've got to order some new business cards. ;^)

I have a habit of not calling characters by their name. It's not nearly as much fun. ;)

[Hoff4D]

Am I the only one who thought the "big guy" could be Burt?
When Saul's talking to CJ for pickup, he tells her to use "one of the up-armored Hummers" Apparently they figured out how to jump start a few of them.


Not so crackpot, I was thinking the same thing.

Shaun of the Dead reference? Although I don't think that was a .30-30.
It would get the job done, in a SHTF situation, if I couldn't get an AR/M-16 or AK that would be my rifle choice.


Just re-listened to all of Ch 29, and right before Scratch goes in to give Angel's brain a breath of fresh air, she grabs Bricks, who says "But i'm guarding her"

So we have Bricks blatantly guarding SOME woman in Ch 29

And Glenn/Pete claiming Lizzie to be guarded by some big guy

I know the community has pretty much decided with 90% certainty that it's Bricks with Lizzie, but I'm 100% certain of it based on these two occurances.


I believe this also furthers the Bricks bad-guy-gone-good theory as well.

[Witch_Doctor]

Oops, My bad. Pete actually meets all three in Chapter 18.3 at 4:19.

[Condor]

Back when Michael, and the others escaped The Colony there was something that I found a slight plot hole and now it's come back to bite the story in the ass. When Victor, Pegs, and Kelly raid the weapons they grab "all the ammo". Having recently moved my personal gun & ammo collection to a new house, I KNOW it doesn't take much to be extremely heavy. At best, 1 man and 2 women could only carry a couple thousand rounds between the 3 of them. With a compound as large as The Colony, they should have Tens, if not hundreds of thousands of rounds for a halfway decent defense. Now Glen is giving Victor major crap for taking everything. Sorry, I don't buy that part.



Just re-listened to all of Ch 29, and right before Scratch goes in to give Angel's brain a breath of fresh air, she grabs Bricks, who says "But i'm guarding her"

So we have Bricks blatantly guarding SOME woman in Ch 29

And Glenn/Pete claiming Lizzie to be guarded by some big guy

I know the community has pretty much decided with 90% certainty that it's Bricks with Lizzie, but I'm 100% certain of it based on these two occurances.


I believe this also furthers the Bricks bad-guy-gone-good theory as well.
Doh! I forgot about that from ch 29.
At first, I was thinking about Burt being the "Big guy" because we don't know if/how he's wounded and maybe Lizzy was acting as nurse to him. Not that Burt would be wandering around other maybe in a wheelchair, casts, etc.

[GeneTwo]

I've been thinking about the Gatekeepers reign being better than Marcus. I really don't doubt it. You have to think about their situation and the amount of people they lost leading up to the coup d'etat. Gatekeepter had Sean and his team killed, about a dozen men. He probably killed about the same amount taking out Marcus and more purging what was left of his regime. And I almost forgot about the zombie attack orchestrated by Gatekeeper.

With the amount of people lost, Gatekeeper would have to lay it easy on the Colony because he wouldn't have enough guards to keep everyone in check. Probably one of the other reasons the Colony was taken out so easily.

Hay, anyone else think Gatekeeper is still alive. I think he is and he is going to play a role later on in the story. Maybe helping Burt escape or maybe poking out Scratches eye or something.

[fridginators]

So how much information is needed to make speculation not "useless" in your opinion.Sorry, I didn't mean to denigrate you or anybody else on the forum. I guess I just felt like we were jumping the gun a little bit is all; I can't imagine the Mallers attacking Fort Irwin. While Scratch did want to find out where Pegs and co. are, she doesn't know that they're in Boulder and that Michael is in this fortified compound.

Actually honestly I have found Scratch's tenacity probably the biggest flaw in the plot of We're Alive. The Mallers attacked the Tower in the first instance because they wanted to take over it - essentially they wanted to do to the Tower what they did to the Colony; subordinate all the original population and control it themselves. But then they destroyed the lobby with a pipe bomb? Was that because it all just descended into warfare? In the second instance Scratch attacked purely to get Pegs. I can kind of understand this, as if you looked up the word "bitch" in the dictionary you'd find "See 'Scratch'", but I just think that this notion of revenge is a little too weak to build this story around. The Tower people have only ever defended themselves, so you can understand their antagonism towards them, but I think sometimes the explanation for the Mallers' aggressiveness is a bit lacking.

This goes hand in hand with how the zombies turned away in Episode 13 just because they successfully put out the fire...why did Pin Stripes reverse the horde? Whatever.

[HorrorHiro]

Sorry, I didn't mean to denigrate you or anybody else on the forum. I guess I just felt like we were jumping the gun a little bit is all; I can't imagine the Mallers attacking Fort Irwin. While Scratch did want to find out where Pegs and co. are, she doesn't know that they're in Boulder and that Michael is in this fortified compound.

Actually honestly I have found Scratch's tenacity probably the biggest flaw in the plot of We're Alive. The Mallers attacked the Tower in the first instance because they wanted to take over it - essentially they wanted to do to the Tower what they did to the Colony; subordinate all the original population and control it themselves. But then they destroyed the lobby with a pipe bomb? Was that because it all just descended into warfare? In the second instance Scratch attacked purely to get Pegs. I can kind of understand this, as if you looked up the word "bitch" in the dictionary you'd find "See 'Scratch'", but I just think that this notion of revenge is a little too weak to build this story around. The Tower people have only ever defended themselves, so you can understand their antagonism towards them, but I think sometimes the explanation for the Mallers' aggressiveness is a bit lacking.

This goes hand in hand with how the zombies turned away in Episode 13 just because they successfully put out the fire...why did Pin Stripes reverse the horde? Whatever.

I don't think Pin Stripes (or whatever you wanna call it) was what called the horde back, I don't think Pin Stripes is capable of creating that kind of noise. As for attacking the fort, remember Scratch is 2nd in command, Durai is immediately above her, and while we don't know much about Durai I don't think it would be out of character for him to order an attack on the fort.

[fridginators]

But then who else was controlling the horde? Because someone definitely was, and the zombies definitely retreated. Not all zombies are that smart in this story; they respond to orders. Either way I still think it is a bit of a faulty plot point for them to retreat... when have they ever retreated?

[UndeadSweeper]

I don't think Pin Stripes (or whatever you wanna call it) was what called the horde back, I don't think Pin Stripes is capable of creating that kind of noise. As for attacking the fort, remember Scratch is 2nd in command, Durai is immediately above her, and while we don't know much about Durai I don't think it would be out of character for him to order an attack on the fort.

Pin Stripes is able. He did a cry during the attack of the First Tower.

[Cabbage Patch]

But then who else was controlling the horde? Because someone definitely was, and the zombies definitely retreated. Not all zombies are that smart in this story; they respond to orders. Either way I still think it is a bit of a faulty plot point for them to retreat... when have they ever retreated?

The details were not clear from the story, but it sure sounded like a lot of zombies got killed during the fighting around the Tower. If the zombies were being controlled by some one/thing then it would make sense to back off before those losses became critical. I'm curious too how much the use of the sweat bottles influenced the zombies. Could the zombies have generally lost interest as the sweat concentration went down?

The other curious instance of the zombies retreating was when they had CJ cornered at the Other Tower.

[reaper239]

The details were not clear from the story, but it sure sounded like a lot of zombies got killed during the fighting around the Tower. If the zombies were being controlled by some one/thing then it would make sense to back off before those losses became critical. I'm curious too how much the use of the sweat bottles influenced the zombies. Could the zombies have generally lost interest as the sweat concentration went down?

The other curious instance of the zombies retreating was when they had CJ cornered at the Other Tower.

after the sweat bottles started to wear down, they still had actual live people they could see, i don't theink the zed would've backed off unless they were called.

[reaper239]

But then who else was controlling the horde? Because someone definitely was, and the zombies definitely retreated. Not all zombies are that smart in this story; they respond to orders. Either way I still think it is a bit of a faulty plot point for them to retreat... when have they ever retreated?

there have been a couple of different instances, but specifically, we know they have a sense of self preservation because when they were clearing out the few after lizzy arrived, one dodged and hid behind a desk. also the tommy zombie tried to flee after he turned. i think as a horde they have always always sucumbed to a group think, but they can be controlled. and if pin stripes is able smart enough to pretend to be paul and play dead, then he should be smart enough to realize when throwing his army at a well fortified enemy is not going to do the trick, and strategize a better way of getting to them.

[Witch_Doctor]

Originally Posted by fridginators
But then who else was controlling the horde? Because someone definitely was, and the zombies definitely retreated. Not all zombies are that smart in this story; they respond to orders. Either way I still think it is a bit of a faulty plot point for them to retreat... when have they ever retreated?


The details were not clear from the story, but it sure sounded like a lot of zombies got killed during the fighting around the Tower. If the zombies were being controlled by some one/thing then it would make sense to back off before those losses became critical. I'm curious too how much the use of the sweat bottles influenced the zombies. Could the zombies have generally lost interest as the sweat concentration went down?

The other curious instance of the zombies retreating was when they had CJ cornered at the Other Tower.

Re-listen to Chapter 13-3. Angel says that the fire is the only thing keeping them at bay. At 5:40 Michael narrates that he sees a tall figure arching its back and let out a scream. The mob changes direction towards the lobby and away from the fire truck. This is while Burt, Angel and Riley are on the fire truck fighting off the zombies and trying to figure out a way back into the tower. At 8:43 there is a familiar zombie howl and Burt says that they are running away. Michael, then, narrates that the mob scatters off into varying directions. Burt starts singing as he shoots zombies. Things get quiet at this point.

So, Pinstripes does direct them and called them off. But, what is more interesting is that they avoided the FIRE and Pinstripes sent them to the tower AFTER the fire was out.

I don't know if Durai planned to use the tankers to fire bomb the arena from the beginning but he sure could have gotten the idea to use fire after that encounter.

[HorrorHiro]

But then who else was controlling the horde? Because someone definitely was, and the zombies definitely retreated. Not all zombies are that smart in this story; they respond to orders. Either way I still think it is a bit of a faulty plot point for them to retreat... when have they ever retreated?

I personally think that it's something non-human that's controlling all the zombies and creatures that may or may not have ever been human, I think that a lot of the "zombies" being described in the story now shouldn't be called zombies, Like the Little Ones (or not-so little anymore,) the Behemoths, the "Jumpers" (that's what Bill called it.) And I doubt Pin Stripes is the only "smart" zombie out there, it would make more sense if some zombies were generally smarter than others.

[Cabbage Patch]

I personally think that it's something non-human that's controlling all the zombies and creatures that may or may not have ever been human...

Which brings us back to the Mole People.

[reaper239]

I personally think that it's something non-human that's controlling all the zombies and creatures that may or may not have ever been human, I think that a lot of the "zombies" being described in the story now shouldn't be called zombies, Like the Little Ones (or not-so little anymore,) the Behemoths, the "Jumpers" (that's what Bill called it.) And I doubt Pin Stripes is the only "smart" zombie out there, it would make more sense if some zombies were generally smarter than others.

true, these are not romero Zs, or even a standard 28 zombie, but they are still, at a basic level, zed. they transmit infection through fluids, they attack the uninfected, and they eat people.

[IamPaul]

On the theory of Lizzy having Todds child, it is possible. That would mean if she got pregnant right before the event, she would be around 6 months along. If it is Sauls it would be 4 to 5 months along. If Lizzy is as big as Pete said she is, the there is a chance it is not Sauls at all. I really doubt that, but who knows, Kc has his ways to mess with us.

[nikvoodoo]

On the theory of Lizzy having Todds child, it is possible. That would mean if she got pregnant right before the event, she would be around 6 months along. If it is Sauls it would be 4 to 5 months along. If Lizzy is as big as Pete said she is, the there is a chance it is not Sauls at all. I really doubt that, but who knows, Kc has his ways to mess with us.

It would be 7 months. It's early December now, the event was early May. One would presume the very last day they could possibly have conceived would have been May 7...though that is to presume that Lizzy had enough wits about her to not have sex as the world around her crumbled.

This would mean her morning sickness would be just about concluding at the point she was just starting to show signs of sickness in the podcast.

[nikvoodoo]

A combination thought just occurred to me:

We've been trying to figure out what Kimmet's plans are for LA and why all the recon and etc. If the plan is to send a nuclear strike into the most strategic area in LA then great! Zombies all die!

But now that Saul has a Sat phone and can call, what if he learns of Kimmet's plan to turn LA into a wasteland and he has to try to convince them to stop because Lizzy is there and preggers?

[Tar Heel Fan]

I have a quick theory on what may happen with the Lizzy situation at The Colony. When Pete refers to her as the the girl that's always around the big guy, perhaps this is showing that she is now either has feelings or is in love with Bricks? It has been 5 months since last we heard from Saul, even longer since she got kidnapped. Bricks saved her life on More that one occasion. Maybe she has a case of severe Stockholm Syndrome? People have certainly been known to switch their lovers faster than 5+ months. Another piece of evidence is that Pete says "She doesn't act like a slave." Maybe it's because she is pregnant and can't work, or maybe it's because Bricks has her back again. I'm really not sure what is going to happen, but it will certainly make for a good hair raiser to see how this will effect Saul's and CJ's relationship if Lizzy fell out of love.

You picked up on a comment I've been reflecting on, as well - that Lizzie was close to the inside leadership and not treated like a slave. What you're saying is possible. Although, let's keep in mind that Lizzy is a PhD psychologist. She could be playing them in order to survive.

One other out there possibility is that somehow Scratch thinks Lizzie's pregnant with Angel's child. Since he's "family," she might have her own reasons for ensuring that Lizzie is treated well for the baby's sake. I know, I know, it's out there, but isn't that what these threads are for - throw it up and hope something sticks so that you can some day say, "I called that!"

[7oddisdead]

A combination thought just occurred to me:

We've been trying to figure out what Kimmet's plans are for LA and why all the recon and etc. If the plan is to send a nuclear strike into the most strategic area in LA then great! Zombies all die!

But now that Saul has a Sat phone and can call, what if he learns of Kimmet's plan to turn LA into a wasteland and he has to try to convince them to stop because Lizzy is there and preggers?

I like this (where's our little thumb symbol?)
The only thing I would think differently about is not nukes...perhaps another type of bomb(names elude me)..i could see a situation with Saul outside the colony, with the colony surrounded....and planes flying overhead....i dunno, something like that.

[IamPaul]

A combination thought just occurred to me:

We've been trying to figure out what Kimmet's plans are for LA and why all the recon and etc. If the plan is to send a nuclear strike into the most strategic area in LA then great! Zombies all die!

But now that Saul has a Sat phone and can call, what if he learns of Kimmet's plan to turn LA into a wasteland and he has to try to convince them to stop because Lizzy is there and preggers?

I think a nuke would be to risky so close to the Fort, but some sort of other weapon would be cool. I see a situtation where Saul and Lizzy are espcaping the city just as the bomb is dropped in the background, ala The Millenium Falcon espcaing an exploding Death Star. I just now thought, and maybe it has been discussed, maybe the soliders are trying to find Zombie hot beds to then perform flyover bombings or attacks.

[Red Shirt]

I like this (where's our little thumb symbol?)
The only thing I would think differently about is not nukes...perhaps another type of bomb(names elude me)..i could see a situation with Saul outside the colony, with the colony surrounded....and planes flying overhead....i dunno, something like that.

Anything in particular you are trying to recall? There's Fuel Air Thermobaric (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon), GBU43/B MOAB (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOAB), GBU-57A/B MOP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive_Ordnance_Penetrator) and of course everyone's favorite, Napalm.

Walking Dead Spoiler:
After all, they napalmed Atlanta in a failed containment effort when things really started getting bad.

I think a nuke would be to risky so close to the Fort,...

Not necessarily... With Ground Zero II (http://www.carloslabs.com/node/20), pick a target, pick a yield and bombs away. The B53 "Crowd Pleaser" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B53_nuclear_bomb) the largest in the US stockpile had a nominal yield of 9Mt and would still have been in the arsenal in 2009. (The last was decommissioned in 2011, at Pantex, of course.) You could "sterilize" 90% of LA with three by targeting Anaheim, Lynwood and West Hollywood. I checked the fallout paths, assuming that the wind would drive it inland and Irwin would be in the clear.

Sorry if I'm hitting too close to home there for you LA. :tinfoil:

[HorrorHiro]

Anybody else think it would make more sense to firebomb or simply carpet bomb the area? Maybe I'm over-estimating the power of a nuke, but regardless I feel like if the fort wasn't immediately taken out by the blast, the giant cloud of nuclear downfall would make it's way to the fort.

[GodofInsanity]

The problem with fallout paths for the southrn california area is it can be very eratic at times. We can have a strong coastal wind to a desert wind blown out to the ocean the we lovingly call Santa Anas. As we have found with wildfires that burned hundreds of thousands of acres just a couple years ago, the wind is no friend to us in times of need here in southern cali. Now granted a ground burst set up would supposedly release less fallout but the resulting fires in surronding areas would add to what little fallout there is.

Now there is the natural barrier of the San Bernardino Mountains and Angeles National Forest. Figuring that the commander at Ft. Irwin would take into consideration weather patterns and such i could see some smaller well placed nuclear devices used or delivered. Low yield bad boys (Kt range more than Mt) that would let surronding radiation disappate quicker save for the exactly ground zero for any devices. I think I do agree with heavier non-nuclear weapons as the after effects may be easier to control.

Plus there is the idea, why use nukes to clear one concentration when this seems to be nation wide. It would take too many weapons even small ones to do the job.

Kinda a cool link for any of you Nuke heads out there.
http://www.carloslabs.com/projects/200712B/GroundZero.html

[HorrorHiro]

Wait...why does bombing L.A. even matter? Hasn't it been confirmed that this has happened all over the world? What would nuking L.A. solve?

[Cabbage Patch]

Using nukes against the Mallers/Colony is a desperation move, there are much easier methods for raining violence upon them if needed. And if the entire country is over-run, what's the point in nuking zombie concentrations in LA?

On the other hand, if Ground Zero is the sole source of the global outbreak, or if LA is the unique home of the non-standard zombies and you can identify the "factory", then you might have a target worthy of nuclear escalation.

[HorrorHiro]

Using nukes against the Mallers/Colony is a desperation move, there are much easier methods for raining violence upon them if needed. And if the entire country is over-run, what's the point in nuking zombie concentrations in LA?

On the other hand, if Ground Zero is the sole source of the global outbreak, or if LA is the unique home of the non-standard zombies and you can identify the "factory", then you might have a target worthy of nuclear escalation.

Neither the zombies (regular or irregular) nor the Mallers/Colony are a good enough reason for nuking that part of the country. And ground zero can't be where it started because Kimmet said that it started in the East.

Vast majority of human race is either dead or apart of the creatures/zombies/whatever the fuck you want to call them. Even if every concentration of them was nuked off the face of the earth they would still greatly outnumber the living.

[UndeadSweeper]

Why is nuke the only option? Could they napalm or non-radioactive options?

[7oddisdead]

Why is nuke the only option? Could they napalm or non-radioactive options?

that's what I'm saying...i think hinting at nukes was done to accomplish one thing....scare. Mission success

[Loyal Retainer]

Anything in particular you are trying to recall? There's Fuel Air Thermobaric (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon), GBU43/B MOAB (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOAB), GBU-57A/B MOP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive_Ordnance_Penetrator) and of course everyone's favorite, Napalm.


Walking Dead Spoiler:
After all, they napalmed Atlanta in a failed containment effort when things really started getting bad.


Not necessarily... With Ground Zero II (http://www.carloslabs.com/node/20), pick a target, pick a yield and bombs away. The B53 "Crowd Pleaser" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B53_nuclear_bomb) the largest in the US stockpile had a nominal yield of 9Mt and would still have been in the arsenal in 2009. (The last was decommissioned in 2011, at Pantex, of course.) You could "sterilize" 90% of LA with three by targeting Anaheim, Lynwood and West Hollywood. I checked the fallout paths, assuming that the wind would drive it inland and Irwin would be in the clear.

Sorry if I'm hitting too close to home there for you LA. :tinfoil:

Good. So I wasn't the only nerd that looked up blast maps and fallout patterns to see if a nuke would send fallout the 160 miles to Ft. Irwin? The only bomb I could find that would send fallout to the fort was the Czar Bomba (50 MT) which isn't available to anyone. My problem with nuking L.A. Is yes you may get rid of the infected but you're also destroying tons of valuable resources and any survivors left in the city. When you start deploying nukes that's an end game move when you have no hope left, which I don't think they've reached yet.

[Witch_Doctor]

Neither the zombies (regular or irregular) nor the Mallers/Colony are a good enough reason for nuking that part of the country. And ground zero can't be where it started because Kimmet said that it started in the East.
Vast majority of human race is either dead or apart of the creatures/zombies/whatever the fuck you want to call them. Even if every concentration of them was nuked off the face of the earth they would still greatly outnumber the living.

Are you sure? Where does Kimmet say that? I heard Kimmet say that he believes it started in hotspots on the west coast, L.A., San Fran., Oregon. The whole country was over-run a day and a half latter. They lost contact with the eastcoast about a week after the west was hit.

[Privateer]

Theres no reason to nuke LA that overcome the vast reasons /not/ to nuke LA. Reason for: Yeah, its not the only concentration of zombies, but it is, by far, the closest and most dangerous to what may be the only operating military facility in the continental U.S. Reason against: Its the closest to the only operating military facility in the continental U.S. There's Morale to think of, because it is a last resort option, and any time you send a soldier south he's gonna have to have a radiation suit. You make an absurd amount of resources unavailable. Not just oil reserves, but factories, infrastructure, scrap metal, etc. And, its unnecessary. What is the zombie population... Really? Victor and Saul have driven through vast swathes of L.A. Without having to deal with any, and how big is the occasional horde? Beyond that, hordes show very little threat to Irwin. With awesome visibility, scouts, and radios, they'd see any concentration heading towards them a long ways off. And they can evacuate.

[IamPaul]

Also thinking, any massive bombing in the area could shift tectonic plates or open more cracks along the LA side of the Ring of Fire. Not that that matters since the population is basically gone now anyways. I praise all the people that take the time to research everything for this show. It is what makes the show and the fans so great.

[Red Shirt]

I just realized I play the devil's advocate so hard that I should have a varsity letter for it.

Should LA be nuked? Absolutely not. As I and many others have said, there are too many resources to be had. Most notably the active oil wells and the refineries that are in LA. Those are going to be extremely important going forward IMO.

But what if that decision has been made and those scouting teams aren't looking for targets and reasons to, but in fact, are scouting for reasons NOT to?


Put in that situation, I'm only a Staff Sergeant he's a Colonel... I'd follow orders. "Hey Sergeant, you seem to have a bizarrely eclectic knowledge set of esoteric minutiae. I need to, ahem, sterilize LA. Can you figure it out for me?" "Sure sir. It's a very bad idea, but with B53's here, here and here, you can get it done quite handily. Now,if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go find a quiet corner to hide in."

[Red Shirt]

Also thinking, any massive bombing in the area could shift tectonic plates or open more cracks along the LA side of the Ring of Fire.

I'm not so sure that is possible... I haven't yet seen credible reports that human activities have caused tectonic events on any scale (yet). You have to remember the sheer size and scale of the amount of mass involved.

To put things in perspective: Dr. Phil Plait the Bad Astronomer (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/), wrote an article for Blastr titled: "Astronomer: 3 reasons we can't blow up a planet sci-fi style." (http://blastr.com/2011/09/astronomer-explains-why-w.php)

Granted, this article is about blowing up planets, not setting fault lines into motion, but even then, if you scale back a handful of orders of magnitude, it still should give you an idea as to what would be involved.

[Loyal Retainer]

Also thinking, any massive bombing in the area could shift tectonic plates or open more cracks along the LA side of the Ring of Fire. Not that that matters since the population is basically gone now anyways. I praise all the people that take the time to research everything for this show. It is what makes the show and the fans so great.

A surface blast or air burst would have no effect on tectonic plates what so ever. Even a subterranean blast would not have enough energy to cause a shift of the plates. Even if you had multiple devices planted along the San Andres vault line it would have little to no effect. Geologist speculated on this as a doomsday weapon but the active parts of fault lines are so deep and are under such great pressure and temperature a nuclear device wouldn't function, even if it did the power of it would do very little.

[7oddisdead]

So here's a fun one for ya...looking into plate tectonics' and found this site.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Geology-1359/oil.htm

Now, my thinking here was how has the constant war in the middle east effected the plates there...well not much apparently.

But as I read into all of this..i thought of inks tats..im gonna go throw this over there as well..

[HorrorHiro]

Are you sure? Where does Kimmet say that? I heard Kimmet say that he believes it started in hotspots on the west coast, L.A., San Fran., Oregon. The whole country was over-run a day and a half latter. They lost contact with the eastcoast about a week after the west was hit.

1st part of chapter 30? Maybe 3rd part of the last chapter, I don't remember exactly but he said something along the lines of "we lost communication with the East, then it hit us." something like that. Can someone help me cite my sources?

[HorrorHiro]

Please, correct me if I'm wrong but Kimmet (or another soldier at the fort) said that the whole thing started in the Eastern part of the world. Then hit the western world (U.S. and other western countries.) So (unless I'm wrong, which I doubt) there is absolutely no purpose in bombing L.A. or anywhere in the U.S. really, concentrations of zombies isn't worth the (potential) loss of life, resources, and land. Vast majority of the human species is either dead or apart of the zombies/creatures/whatever you feel like calling them.

What I'm saying is, "ground zero" isn't where the Apocalypse started. It might be where it started on the west coast but remember this whole thing hit the East coast and made it's way across the country in day. There are probably plenty of "ground zeros" all throughout the world, doesn't mean we should try to nuke/bomb all of them, because either way "the dead will always outnumber the living" ~ Red Dead Redemption

[Red Shirt]

1st part of chapter 30? Maybe 3rd part of the last chapter, I don't remember exactly but he said something along the lines of "we lost communication with the East, then it hit us." something like that. Can someone help me cite my sources?

Chapter 29 2/3, pretty much the entire first half of the episode is Kimmet's briefing.

At about 4:58, "We lost contact with everyone on the East Coast about a week after the west was hit."

[forgottenone]

Ok, this has been on my mind.. i just find it odd...
The guys are holed up in an elementary school. How many elementary schools do you know that have bars on all the windows and have metal doors? Really? This is in downtown LA, but really? And, I dont visit dwn there so I can't say. Does anyone know??

[Cabbage Patch]

Ok, this has been on my mind.. i just find it odd...
The guys are holed up in an elementary school. How many elementary schools do you know that have bars on all the windows and have metal doors? Really? This is in downtown LA, but really? And, I dont visit dwn there so I can't say. Does anyone know??

I looked at the images of Dominguez Elementary School on Google Maps Street View, and if there are bars on the windows they aren't obvious. That said, I've done work at an adult school that's not far away, and that place is built like a fortress, including bars on the windows, steel gates over the doors, and a big iron fence around the complex. So the particulars may be different, but the concept is valid.

Here's a link to the wiki entry on Dominguez Elementary: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Dominguez+Elementary+School

[GodofInsanity]

Lmao, this is Los Angeles. I have seen heavy duty fences around a McDonalds. So yeah schools in the inner city can be really beefed up with bars and such. Hell I live 60 miles from L.A. and they put up a heavy duty fence around my old high school and installed reinforced doors because of the whole columbine thing. And another note...I do not think thats Los Angeles where they holed up. Isn't it further west and a tad south of downtown L.A. proper.

[nikvoodoo]

I live in a neighborhood in queens where we've left the windows down in our car on accident overnight and nothing got stolen.

The elementary school down the block has bars over the windows.

[awkwardalex]

Ok, this has been on my mind.. i just find it odd...
The guys are holed up in an elementary school. How many elementary schools do you know that have bars on all the windows and have metal doors? Really? This is in downtown LA, but really? And, I dont visit dwn there so I can't say. Does anyone know??

Well depending on the age of the school and the area, yes it can. Newer ones have strong windows and reinforced doors but older ones it is cheaper to bar the windows.

[Hellbringer]

Why is nuke the only option? Could they napalm or non-radioactive options?

Have you seen "Evolution"? Fire...

[HorrorHiro]

Chapter 29 2/3, pretty much the entire first half of the episode is Kimmet's briefing.

At about 4:58, "We lost contact with everyone on the East Coast about a week after the west was hit."

My argument is still valid...what does bombing L.A. solve? It started on the East!

[nikvoodoo]

My argument is still valid...what does bombing L.A. solve? It started on the East!

No. You're wrong. Sorry. It started in LA/West Coast and worked its way East.

Edit: oh you were talking about it starting In The Eastern hemisphere. There's no evidence supporting that. All we know is it hit the Ring of Fire nearly simultaneously.

[HorrorHiro]

I must have REALLY been listening to hard to come up with all of that...thanks for correcting Nik.

[OhSnapitsme]

ok, i am far to lazy to go back and read 17 pages worth of replies. Think about it, it started in all the major locations that Col Kimmet mentoned. LA was a hotspot, a huge one, but still a hotspot. i believe that the "hotspots" are more nesting locations. Think of it as an ant nest. you might see a few in your kitchen or next to the trash, but find the big hill and you find the nest. The "nest" is simly where the mass majority were created and able to wander off and spawn more. On a seperate note, i love the fact that liz is prego and the impending love triangle with CJ, Saul and Victor will complicate things. As or the bombing, with Kimmet visiting pentax(spelling?), im inerested to find out where they will bomb. I can see the hospital at least, maybe the arena. Anyone else think the Reserve Base might be another nest? with so many Big Ones and little ones it makes me wonder. Also, just had the great thought that Kalani isnt dead. Anyone notice that when saul and victor where searching bodies, his wasnt found or noticed? They saw the helicopter but didnt ever investiage... Thats all for now

[OhSnapitsme]

Oh crap, i just hurt my head with this one, Scratch has Glen and Pete looking for michale and company... Thoughts?

[Cabbage Patch]

Oh crap, i just hurt my head with this one, Scratch has Glen and Pete looking for michale and company... Thoughts?

What if this wasn't the first time that the Mallers/Colony have seen helicopters flying around? What if the military has been conducting recon missions around LA, whether to scout out the Mallers, to look for zombie nests, or just to look for resources? If we assume the Mallers don't know about Fort Irwin or Boulder then they're likely to assume the helicopters they're seeing is the one they saw leave the Tower. Then it would make sense to send people out looking for Michael's new base.

[nikvoodoo]

Oh crap, i just hurt my head with this one, Scratch has Glen and Pete looking for michale and company... Thoughts?

It was brought up a couple times in this thread. If they are indeed spies sent out to find Michael, they are both amazing actors. They seemed very genuine in their desire to leave the Colony for their own reasons.

[nikvoodoo]

I must have REALLY been listening to hard to come up with all of that...thanks for correcting Nik.

I just relistened to the sections detailing the rest of the world and the outbreak: What is confusing (and I think maybe where you got your idea from) was the news report in Chapter 2 talks about riots in LA, Chicago, New York and other locations. That's why we all stuck on the idea that it was some sort of attack across the states. The news report cut off before they could indicate what cities were influenced globally.

The best I can figure....this might be a hole in the plot. The only way it can be explained away is if people in other US cities not on the West Coast started rioting with the impending doom of zombie-gore headed their way.

[7oddisdead]

I just relistened to the sections detailing the rest of the world and the outbreak: What is confusing (and I think maybe where you got your idea from) was the news report in Chapter 2 talks about riots in LA, Chicago, New York and other locations. That's why we all stuck on the idea that it was some sort of attack across the states. The news report cut off before they could indicate what cities were influenced globally.

The best I can figure....this might be a hole in the plot. The only way it can be explained away is if people in other US cities not on the West Coast started rioting with the impending doom of zombie-gore headed their way.

Rioting to get the hell outta dodge would make perfect sense actually. While we can only speculate about if there were reports of outbreaks in the "far" east...surely word of things going down in LA got out pretty fast....i could see rioting happening just for that fact alone..think of Katrina...or hell, shopping on black Friday...that May as well be an apocalypse on its own.

[Kram]

I agree that the riots in other cities could have resulted from people panicking due to the West Coast / Ring of Fire zombie reports.

Was anyone else intrigued to see a pedestrian overpass in the street view pics of Dominguez Elementary? I wonder if it could be an escape route for SVGP.

Regarding Lizzie being protected -- perhaps Durai or Scratch is just really into long-term planning. Raising a child would be a big drain on resources, but maybe the relative safety of the Colony makes it seem possible. It would probably take at least ten or twelve years for such an investment to pan out for Durai/Scratch -- but if they want to survive long-term, they are going to need new fighters/workers to replace the ones they lose. They are definitely ruthless enough to use child soldiers / slaves.

I'm really not sure about this idea though -- the theory that Lizzie and the baby are being kept as bargaining chips is probably more likely. The Mallers' increased security at the Colony is the only reason why I think D/S might be considering the far future potential of Lizzie's baby.

[Soundwave]

Who else thinks the "slaves" are the old guards from the prison?



Didn't Scratch say that when this all went down that the guards abandoned them? Left them for dead?

[nikvoodoo]

Didn't Scratch say that when this all went down that the guards abandoned them? Left them for dead?

You haz win written all over you. I totally forgot about that.

[RabidWolf]

Season Three of Found? Lol