Chapter 29- Beyond Our Walls Part 3

[nikvoodoo]

Final chapter part. Discuss it here!

[Hellbringer]

noon isn't getting here quick enough.

[Kc]

New episode will be going up, need a thread for it. I'll just put this here...

[Kc]

Ooops, I created a new thread but didn't see this one, my bad. Barely waking up yet...

[nikvoodoo]

New episode will be going up, need a thread for it. I'll just put this here...

That's why this thread was already here ;)


Ooops, I created a new thread but didn't see this one, my bad. Barely waking up yet...

Morning sunshine!! :)

[nikvoodoo]

Episode is out EARLY!! GO GET IT NOW GO GOGOGO!

[Toeknee818]

I was hoping for my favorite character to come back... I hope he gets out of this one.
I know it says spoilers allowed... but is it safe to just blurt everything out here?

[ClearSights]

Gahhh! I still havn't listened to 29-1 / 29-2 or 29-3, im waiting for my trip thursday to listen to all of them back to back. It's hard to hold off! I keep coming here and spoiling myself

[ZomNom]

Wow. Anyone else listen to this yet?

Wow.

[Kc]

Hm... No one's listened yet?

[timberwoof]

Holy smokes that was a good one. Good job KC and crew. Cliff hanger like an MFer.

[kdalton]

Wow. That is all I can say.

[Raven]

People on FB are not the same as those here it seems. Go now listen so KC knows we appreciate his early drop. Thank you KC !

[UndeadSweeper]

O_o' Is this story moving or what!!!

[UndeadSweeper]

Yup, I done and it was great! When she said "The Family" are you talking about the Mob??

Also I guessing that she being thought to also be a slow turner and it's understandable that they keep her in her "new cell"

[Dyhoerium]

Big Episode. A couple quick thoughts. I'm so happy to hear Burt's healthy voice. Sad to know Angel is gone, at least in present - wonder if we'll see a flashback to explain more of his family tree (is he a sibling, cousin, etc. of Scratch?). Scared to know what Burt might be about to go through, though.

The Mallers seem to have a pretty advanced medical staff and facilities. First guess is that they're at the colony, but that might be too easy.

[Eric]

Great episode! The latter half especially was a long time coming. Hopefully chapter 30 will focus on the Mallers and bring in Saul and his group at some point.

[awkwardalex]

HOLY SHIT!

Never thought I'd see the day that Ra1th and Nikvoodoo would be in the same corner mourning the same character.

I think we need a memorial or some shit after THAT!
Angel is officially on my good list he kept them safe.
I can just imagine Burt [oh my dad will be so happy to hear him] saying, "Go to hell scar face."

[Ra1th]

Fffuuuuuck

[Anghil]

Fffuuuuuck

your tag should now read.... Angel's #1 Mourner

[Ra1th]

your tag should now read.... Angel's #1 Mourner

hahaha i would but i think it would be a spoiler

[HardKor]

HOLY SHIT!

Never thought I'd see the day that Ra1th and Nikvoodoo would be in the same corner mourning the same character.

I think we need a memorial or some shit after THAT!
Angel is officially on my good list he kept them safe.
I can just imagine Burt [oh my dad will be so happy to hear him] saying, "Go to hell scar face."

We do have a memorial thread.
Thread: Wall of the Fallen ( a place to say good bye) take 2 (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?2184-Wall-of-the-Fallen-%28-a-place-to-say-good-bye%29-take-2&highlight=Wall+Fallen)

I'm not sure I can fully process what just happened yet. I still in sort of a wide eyed "Holy Shit!" state of mind. It does seem that Durai, Scratch, Latch, and Angel (or Angel's father) were in some sort of mafia organization. So we got some answers about those questions. I think I need to process this a little more before I can come up with anything else to say. But I must repeat...Holy Shit!

[G-Money]

Holy crap!!!!!!!

[awkwardalex]

We do have a memorial thread.
Thread: Wall of the Fallen ( a place to say good bye) take 2 (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?2184-Wall-of-the-Fallen-%28-a-place-to-say-good-bye%29-take-2&highlight=Wall+Fallen)

I'm not sure I can fully process what just happened yet. I still in sort of a wide eyed "Holy Shit!" state of mind. It does seem that Durai, Scratch, Latch, and Angel (or Angel's father) were in some sort of mafia organization. So we got some answers about those questions. I think I need to process this a little more before I can come up with anything else to say. But I must repeat...Holy Shit!

Well Angel needs a special one, dying and in pain caught and trapped and died protecting the tower.

[awkwardalex]

Big Episode. A couple quick thoughts. I'm so happy to hear Burt's healthy voice. Sad to know Angel is gone, at least in present - wonder if we'll see a flashback to explain more of his family tree (is he a sibling, cousin, etc. of Scratch?). Scared to know what Burt might be about to go through, though.

The Mallers seem to have a pretty advanced medical staff and facilities. First guess is that they're at the colony, but that might be too easy.

I'd like to see that- Scratch taking the colony from gatekeeper.

[zombiesurvivor]

Scratch is acting a whole lot different then in the previous seasons. Glad to hear Burt is alive and I wish Angel would stay alive.

[StickUpKid]

Poor Angel, burnt and hands ripped up protected the tower to his dying breath. But im still confused, what did Scratch want? Something about his dad? I am in school and will probably relisten when less is happening, but if someone could explain thatd be great.

Releived as hell to hear Burts voice, hopefully he doesnt die (knock on wood).

[Allie]

Wow. Anyone else listen to this yet?

Wow.

I know :( So sad. The descriptions were so vivid I just kept picturing him, alone, burned and for those people to be the last he had to see!!

[Allie]

Poor Angel, burnt and hands ripped up protected the tower to his dying breath. But im still confused, what did Scratch want? Something about his dad? I am in school and will probably relisten when less is happening, but if someone could explain thatd be great.

Releived as hell to hear Burts voice, hopefully he doesnt die (knock on wood).

Scratch wanted Angel to tell him where Michael and the rest of his friends went.

[Chogidog]

I'm just hoping that it's a cliffhanger like Hope's. That Scratch shot his life support machine, like the radio was.
It's a thin hope to grasp at, but I'll hold onto it for at least 2 weeks lol.

[Allie]

Wow I never thought the Mallers would be at the Colony until someone mentioned it. But yea, it does make sense. Where else would they have doctors? I'm so sad about Angel :( Why couldn't they take out someone else like Pegs or Datu. Those characters are so annoying. but Angel :( Anyone else think they're going to use the video of Angel to blackmail Burt into talking? Or maybe try to use it against Michael?

Also about Tanya. I do think that she and Saul have some sort of immunity against the zombie disease. Like burt said, he never misses and the bullet probably did go through the zombie and then Saul. That's also why Saul wasn't sick when he went near ground zero.

Overall great episode. Can't wait till all the main characters meet up again. RIP Angel though :(

[Ra1th]

I'm just hoping that it's a cliffhanger like Hope's. That Scratch shot his life support machine, like the radio was.
It's a thin hope to grasp at, but I'll hold onto it for at least 2 weeks lol.

I don't think so. Just because the doctor said, he's dying, and there's no real way for him to survive long term. I mean even Bricks or tardust or whoever referred to him as "it" rather than him, so it gives a pretty good idea of how bad the injuries were. As far as scratch killing him, at that point it might as well have been a mercy killing.

[Kc]

I'm just hoping that it's a cliffhanger like Hope's. That Scratch shot his life support machine, like the radio was.
It's a thin hope to grasp at, but I'll hold onto it for at least 2 weeks lol.

No cliff hanger. She didn't shoot the life support machine. He's done...

[awkwardalex]

Poor Angel, burnt and hands ripped up protected the tower to his dying breath. But im still confused, what did Scratch want? Something about his dad? I am in school and will probably relisten when less is happening, but if someone could explain thatd be great.

Releived as hell to hear Burts voice, hopefully he doesnt die (knock on wood).

She wanted him to tell her where they (michael amd co.) Went.

She was trying to get him to fall to her side to guilt him.

When he spelt "f" i was like no Angel NOO!

[yarri]

No cliff hanger. She didn't shoot the life support machine. He's done...

Sadness serious sadness I'm sorry to see him go.

[nikvoodoo]

This has been a long time coming........


HA!!!!!!! HE'S DEAD AND HE'LL NEVER LEAD THE TOWER! BOOM!

Now that being said, I'm sorry for all the Angel fans. That was a rough way to lose your favorite character.

[Tielurrdee]

No cliff hanger. She didn't shoot the life support machine. He's done...

Thank you KC for saying it I don't think I'd want to see post after post and a new thread titled could angle possibly still be alive !!! No offense to the original poster of that theory I just didn't want to drag that threw the mud. :) well now we know quite a bit more. I'm glad someone mentioned the colony I with that I was so confused about where they could be possibly an I agree. Excited today. Now correct me if I'm wrong in the credits I heard Scott Marvin where or who was he? Another part in the story was he the doctor ha jk on that I think. I thought that he was Duncan's voice.

[OhSnapitsme]

I think tanya and saul are both immune. I doubt they went to the colony, I think they stayed south. But I do see a intel mission taking mikey and smelly french riley to ground zero where they will run into a mauler and tail them to burt who will be rescued and brought to fort irwin where he will reenlist

[Kc]

Thank you KC for saying it I don't think I'd want to see post after post and a new thread titled could angle possibly still be alive !!! No offense to the original poster of that theory I just didn't want to drag that threw the mud. :) well now we know quite a bit more. I'm glad someone mentioned the colony I with that I was so confused about where they could be possibly an I agree. Excited today. Now correct me if I'm wrong in the credits I heard Scott Marvin where or who was he? Another part in the story was he the doctor ha jk on that I think. I thought that he was Duncan's voice.

Um... did you hear the 2nd to last line of the episode?

Oh, and YES, I didn't want people to try and theorize something that was not going to happen.

[awkwardalex]

This has been a long time coming........


HA!!!!!!! HE'S DEAD AND HE'LL NEVER LEAD THE TOWER! BOOM!

Now that being said, I'm sorry for all the Angel fans. That was a rough way to lose your favorite character.



Oh Nik we all know you were upset to...it's okay to cry.

[Chogidog]

No cliff hanger. She didn't shoot the life support machine. He's done...

Well.. I did say it was a thin hope.
I guess you've just conditioned me to think outside the box and not just accept everything as I hear it.
Much appreciated you chiming in tho

[Kc]

Well.. I did say it was a thin hope.
I guess you've just conditioned me to think outside the box and not just accept everything as I hear it.
Much appreciated you chiming in tho

Of course! Any other ?'s?

[Tielurrdee]

Um... did you hear the 2nd to last line of the episode?

Oh, and YES, I didn't want people to try and theorize something that was not going to happen.

Haha oh I'm dumb I'm on my moble app. I switched to the normal site to look up the characers because I realized I had the wrong name. I knew that was Burt but got confused listening to the credits when I heard Scott m. And I was like "oh isn't that the voice actor for Duncan " * dumbass award goes to me for this week

[Dyhoerium]

I was just thinking about the rings that Durai, Scratch, and Angel have. It reminded me that in chapter 16-3 around 1:20 Angel said he knew who Latch was because of the ring and it has "Two birds wings wrapped around a stone". Angel says he knew it was him because someone asked if they should remove it. Looking back, how would they have known it was Latch when they asked if they should remove it? Sure there are explanations, but this seems like such a big hint that I missed!!

I'm guessing Durai, Scratch, and Angel have similar rings to what Latch had. Not that it tells me anything about what they mean. A few people have mentioned that they could be some sort of mafia - I hadn't considered that. There are definitely hints that make me think mafia style, but others that they're related by blood. I think I am leaning more towards blood related, but

Lastly, Angel certainly has a very troubled background. Far from the description Michael gave of him when describing him in the first chapter. I have to say, I have far more respect for Angel after this episode than I have before.

[Kc]

Haha oh I'm dumb I'm on my moble app. I switched to the normal site to look up the characers because I realized I had the wrong name. I knew that was Burt but got confused listening to the credits when I heard Scott m. And I was like "oh isn't that the voice actor for Duncan " * dumbass award goes to me for this week


Only because I Love!

http://lawreport.org/imagesStory/dumbass_award.jpg

*SPEECH SPEECH SPEECH!

[Allie]

Now Riley and Angel will never be able to hook up :(

[Allie]

I was just thinking about the rings that Durai, Scratch, and Angel have. It reminded me that in chapter 16-3 around 1:20 Angel said he knew who Latch was because of the ring and it has "Two birds wings wrapped around a stone". Angel says he knew it was him because someone asked if they should remove it. Looking back, how would they have known it was Latch when they asked if they should remove it? Sure there are explanations, but this seems like such a big hint that I missed!!

I'm guessing Durai, Scratch, and Angel have similar rings to what Latch had. Not that it tells me anything about what they mean. A few people have mentioned that they could be some sort of mafia - I hadn't considered that. There are definitely hints that make me think mafia style, but others that they're related by blood. I think I am leaning more towards blood related, but

Lastly, Angel certainly has a very troubled background. Far from the description Michael gave of him when describing him in the first chapter. I have to say, I have far more respect for Angel after this episode than I have before.

Oh wow yes how could I have missed that!! He did say he only knew him because of his ring but how could he have known... It never crossed my mind lol.

[Chogidog]

Of course! Any other ?'s?

uhhh... what's the cause of the zombification? lol
nah, no more.

[HarleyQuinn]

This was definitely the best episode in a while (not that the others haven't been amazing). It has been a while since I have literally had my jaw hanging open at the end of an episode.

[Tielurrdee]

Only because I Love!

http://lawreport.org/imagesStory/dumbass_award.jpg

*SPEECH SPEECH SPEECH!

Haha we need a like function to this site so I can just click like instead of reply. Knowing me there is that function iz juss two dumbd ta fienz it

[Kc]

Haha we need a like function to this site so I can just click like instead of reply. Knowing me there is that function iz juss two dumbd ta fienz it

I've looked into that, it's not very easy... nothing built in as of yet. Maybe a thumbs up feature?

[nikvoodoo]

I've looked into that, it's not very easy... nothing built in as of yet. Maybe a thumbs up feature?

That's what rep is for! Click that star! Yeah baby!

Nothin's gonna get me down today!! :)

I said we needed Angel and Burt back and they both came back one chapter part later! Huzzah!!! And Angel ate a bullet for his troubles! For shame on all of you wanting them back all the time! You would have forced Kc to kill him off quicker! ;)

And awkwardalex: I's not crying! I's smiling for the awesome story :)

and for winning the Angel War....

[Cabbage Patch]

From this episode we know that Angel was connected with one of "the Families" and named after his father. I'm assuming the Families refers to the Mafia. There was a famous Mafia hitman named Frederick "The Angel" Tenuto. His last name and our Angel's are spelled differently, and there's a big time gap between the two, but I think it's too close to be a complete coincidence.

Tenuto escaped from the Philadelphia County Prison along with Willie Sutton in 1947. He spent 10 years on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted List, and is rumored to have died in the early 60s.

[awkwardalex]

To whoever thought of this first claim it because i am to lazy to find you!

They suggested that scratch may use the video to blackmail burt. However, I think that they will use Lizzie as Burt kind of has a fatherly soft spot for her.

[awkwardalex]

That's what rep is for! Click that star! Yeah baby!

Nothin's gonna get me down today!! :)

I said we needed Angel and Burt back and they both came back one chapter part later! Huzzah!!! And Angel ate a bullet for his troubles! For shame on all of you wanting them back all the time! You would have forced Kc to kill him off quicker! ;)

And awkwardalex: I's not crying! I's smiling for the awesome story :)

and for winning the Angel War....

As a recent fallen said (to Burt): You're enjoying the hell out of this aren't you?

[wh33t]

All of Season 3 so far just feels like it's been explaining the mysteries set in motion by Season 2. Not at all what I am wanting to hear or expecting in the Zombie Horror genre. I think the We're Alive will be an awesome story when it's all fully released but I find it actually quite difficult to stay interested in it in the weekly releases like that. That's just my preference though. I'm not berating KC and the crews excellent work, I've just got a little bit ADHD when it comes to Zombie stories and some of the action scenes, lore and violence that I've come to know and love from KC seems absent right now. Although it got close again with CJ, Saul and Victor.

Sad that Angel appears to be dead. I could have sworn I heard the heart monitor flat line, I'll have to listen again. I guess now we'll probably get a chapter or two of Burt being tortured by Scratch. Maybe Saul, Victor and Chinwe rescue him? I'm also guessing the ring thing is a gang or syndicate type object. Not sure why Angel would be carrying it around if he despised Scratch so much. Kind of weird really.

[nikvoodoo]

Sad that Angel appears to be dead. I could have sworn I heard the heart monitor flat line, I'll have to listen again. I guess now we'll probably get a chapter or two of Burt being tortured by Scratch. Maybe Saul, Victor and Chinwe rescue him? I'm also guessing the ring thing is a gang or syndicate type object. Not sure why Angel would be carrying it around if he despised Scratch so much. Kind of weird really.

Kc confirmed earlier in this thread: Dead dead. No ifs ands or buts. Dead.

[trubkir]

All of Season 3 so far just feels like it's been explaining the mysteries set in motion by Season 2. Not at all what I am wanting to hear or expecting in the Zombie Horror genre. I think the We're Alive will be an awesome story when it's all fully released but I find it actually quite difficult to stay interested in it in the weekly releases like that. That's just my preference though. I'm not berating KC and the crews excellent work, I've just got a little bit ADHD when it comes to Zombie stories and some of the action scenes, lore and violence that I've come to know and love from KC seems absent right now. Although it got close again with CJ, Saul and Victor.

This statement brings the "You need a montage" scene from Team America World police to my mind.

[Hoff4D]

Just. Wow.

Kudos to the whole crew, awesome episode.


Scratch said to Burt at the end "It's just you now"....So what does this imply about Lizzie?! Is Scratch just bluffing to hopefully get Burt talking?

[wh33t]

Kc confirmed earlier in this thread: Dead dead. No ifs ands or buts. Dead.

Awesome! I'll have to read through the posts. I like to post before reading them and that way I get out my true reaction to the episode. Btw is there any kind of Forum rule or etiquette that goes again this method? This is my first time using Forums to discuss weekly episodes.

[Dyhoerium]

Just. Wow.

Kudos to the whole crew, awesome episode.


Scratch said to Burt at the end "It's just you now"....So what does this imply about Lizzie?! Is Scratch just bluffing to hopefully get Burt talking?

I interpreted the it's just you' line as, only Burt is left that knows where they were going. Lizzie had been with the mallers for a little bit. I assumed the female Bricks was watching was Lizzie, but it's just an assumption. Also, unless I've missed something we're still not sure who the other person scratch claimed to have during the second attack on the tower.

[wh33t]

Also, unless I've missed something we're still not sure who the other person scratch claimed to have during the second attack on the tower.

I think you're correct, we aren't sure. But there is speculation that it was Kalani's daughter Hanna.

[Dyhoerium]

I think you're correct, we aren't sure. But there is speculation that it was Kalani's daughter Hanna.

Ahh that would make sense! Thanks!

[MenashaCorpse]

I think you're correct, we aren't sure. But there is speculation that it was Kalani's daughter Hanna.

Didn't the Mallers shoot Hannah at the failed "Lizzie exchange" prompting Kalani's sacrificial helo-dive?


ETA: The wiki states that Hannah's status is unknown as of part 2 of "The Thirty-First." My bad.

[reaper239]

RIP Lt Angel Tunudo

[wh33t]

Didn't the Mallers shoot Hannah at the failed "Lizzie exchange" prompting Kalani's sacrificial helo-dive?


ETA: The wiki states that Hannah's status is unknown as of part 2 of "The Thirty-First." My bad.

Yes, there is speculation on that as well.

[nikvoodoo]

Awesome! I'll have to read through the posts. I like to post before reading them and that way I get out my true reaction to the episode. Btw is there any kind of Forum rule or etiquette that goes again this method? This is my first time using Forums to discuss weekly episodes.

Not a rule against it per se. We like it if people read before they post, but at the same time......there are a lot of people who have 20 pages to sift through before they get to post and decide "Oh F this crap," and just post.

And Re: Hannah: Her status is currently unknown. She is presumed dead as a victim of the failed prisoner exchange, however Scratch's words bring that into question.

[Ra1th]

Oh Nik we all know you were upset to...it's okay to cry.

Youre comforting THAT GUY?!?!?

[wh33t]

Not a rule against it per se. We like it if people read before they post, but at the same time......there are a lot of people who have 20 pages to sift through before they get to post and decide "Oh F this crap," and just post.

Yea, I could see that. And I know with most other forums I visit it's generally frowned upon if you post with out reading and searching first. But these forums are also kind of like reviews, in which case it makes sense for people to post without reading first. At least that's how I see it and of course, 20 pages to read through can take up to an hour or so lol!

[yarri]

Youre comforting THAT GUY?!?!?

Sorry Buddy (hugs) I'll comfort you.

[Ra1th]

That's what rep is for! Click that star! Yeah baby!

Nothin's gonna get me down today!! :)

I said we needed Angel and Burt back and they both came back one chapter part later! Huzzah!!! And Angel ate a bullet for his troubles! For shame on all of you wanting them back all the time! You would have forced Kc to kill him off quicker! ;)

And awkwardalex: I's not crying! I's smiling for the awesome story :)

and for winning the Angel War....

Way to be classy you DICK!

Hahaha I will have my revenge, Victor will lead the next tower to glorrryy

[Ra1th]

Sorry Buddy (hugs) I'll comfort you.

Ill need therapy

[nikvoodoo]

Way to be classy you DICK!

Hahaha I will have my revenge, Victor will lead the next tower to glorrryy

I'd be fine with that. Victor Rocks.

[Ra1th]

I'd be fine with that. Victor Rocks.

Now it's not as much fun...

[yarri]

Ill need therapy

There, there, there, there, take comfort in the fact he died well.

[Ra1th]

There, there, there, there, take comfort in the fact he died well.

By being crumbled to the point of being an "it" more than a human being, being broken to the point of only being able to write things out, and then being shot in the face? He died a prisoner, he didn't get a blaze of glory like kalani or bill

[Z Sniper]

Hoooooooly caca!

[yarri]

By being crumbled to the point of being an "it" more than a human being, being broken to the point of only being able to write things out, and then being shot in the face? He died a prisoner, he didn't get a blaze of glory like kalani or bill


His death counted though. It wasn't wasted, he bought Riley's life with his own. In the end he died as a solder defending someone defenseless. What better death could he have had? He died with honor "spitting" in the face of his enemy. In my books Angel died a bad ass.

[yarri]

My favorite quote

"For those I love I will sacrifice."

I think this fits Angel.

[Privateer]

Well, now I'm sad. Way to crush hopes Kc! :P

My theory was that he was still alive, buy for different reasons. Namely, I just didn't think it was Angel, for two reasons: a) There was no speaking role, which seems a little unusual to take out a main character without some sort of that; and b) Scratch mentions Angel getting his face fixed. This is clearly an indivdual damaged beyond repair and recognition, and Scratch IDed him because he had a ring in his pocket. Of course, Kc could have just been playing it straight regarding the injuries, to give us a good description of why we probably didn't want Angel to live, cause he was messed up, and maybe the actor wasn't available. (Or maybe he was. Those gurgles sounded about the right octave. But, pah. No tearful Riley/Angel reunion. He was one of my fav chars, and I'll be sad to see him go! I do hope he gets a flashback, so we have a reason to get his whole story.

That being said Angel's last scene was superbly done! The writing instead of talking really added to the suspense!

Apologies for poor prose, I just had to hop on my phone and comment after hearing this weeks installment. :)

[Z Sniper]

Just wait til I get my hands on Scratch! I'll make machaca out of her ass! Carnitas! I'll make dog food out of her and feed her to Lady! Hell, I'll eat her and poop her and stomp on her with a dirty guarache!!!! I'm coming for you cabrona!!!! Sincerely, Victor xoxoxo

[HardKor]

Some people have kinda hit on this but haven't said it outright.
Seems to me that Scratch was implying that Angel's father was the real member of "The Families" and that Angel had a opening to be a part of it (whatever "The Family" is) but chose to leave instead. Damn. I hope we get the whole story here, it's just too bad that it probably won't be Angel telling it if we do (I doubt we'll get two journals from beyond the grave.)

[AdrianHD]

Just wait til I get my hands on Scratch! I'll make machaca out of her ass! Carnitas! I'll make dog food out of her and feed her to Lady! Hell, I'll eat her and poop her and stomp on her with a dirty guarache!!!! I'm coming for you cabrona!!!! Sincerely, Victor xoxoxo

There you go, Arvind, Victor's got your back! :P

--

Dude! I was totally not expecting that. After weeks without Angel, his last moments are left without a single word. All I can say about that is: Riley is gonna be piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissed.

Edit: Also, I'm still voicing my love for Scratch, even though 99% of fans probably hate her at this point :P

[Privateer]

There you go, Arvind, Victor's got your back! :P

--

Dude! I was totally not expecting that. After weeks without Angel, his last moments are left without a single word. All I can say about that is: Riley is gonna be piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissed.

Edit: Also, I'm still voicing my love for Scratch, even though 99% of fans probably hate her at this point :P

I was rather dissapointed that Angel went out like that to. Kinda seems a little light. But, it does put a bookend on the character, and gives an opening to explain hus backstory, though there seems little reason anyone needs to know.

And oooooh. An episode of Riley going straight punisher on dudes would be spectacular. :P

[Tielurrdee]

Only because I Love!

http://lawreport.org/imagesStory/dumbass_award.jpg

*SPEECH SPEECH SPEECH!

I had to wait tell I got on my lunch break tho I have nothing prepared for this speech KC. Id like to first off thank the public education system for failing me by allowing me to graduate. Second I'd like to thank my family for letting me eat sugar and watch mindless cartoons on a daily basis for all of my teenage years. I'll give credit to god for making me horribly uncoordinated which led to many wonderful head injuries and a crooked nose. And my friends lastly for showing me how to drink my brain to the mush that is inside of my skull . I'm the poster boy for why you stay away from trying drugs in your younger years because just a few can cause great problems like having a horrible short and long term memory in the future. I'm am honored to receive this award of recognition and I fully accept it. Thank you KC if you ever need a voice actor that sounds like a nose picking mouth breather in the future im not too far off I live in Bakersfield ca close to la. Now I'll let you all get back on topic

[yarri]

I don't care what any of you say or how you gloat (Nik..) :p

Angel died well, that's all I ever asked for him, after he fell with the tower. I wanted a death for Angel, that was good. A death that had meaning. I didn't want his life to be wasted and it wasn't, he saved Riley. He helped save his friends. He was such a bad ass he was still breathing after a fall from what was it... a 16 story building.
You wanted him to go out with a blaze of glory (Ra1th) Holy shit dude he survived a hell of a fall I sure as hell know none of us would have survived. Then his last word was to basically gave the finger to Scratch.. what more do you want? He was defiant SOB to the bitter end.

RIP Angel

[buzzbros2002]

Holy Toledo! That was an intense second half! All I have to say, and I'm sorry to be the first one to say this, is that Scratch is going to take an arrow to the knee once Riley finds her.

[yarri]

Holy Toledo! That was an intense second half! All I have to say, and I'm sorry to be the first one to say this, is that Scratch is going to take an arrow to the knee once Riley finds her.

I'd say throat but that would be to quick....Something tells me the chef wants to try out her kitchen knife skills on Ms Scratch.

[Kc]

I had to wait tell I got on my lunch break tho I have nothing prepared for this speech KC. Id like to first off thank the public education system for failing me by allowing me to graduate. Second I'd like to thank my family for letting me eat sugar and watch mindless cartoons on a daily basis for all of my teenage years. I'll give credit to god for making me horribly uncoordinated which led to many wonderful head injuries and a crooked nose. And my friends lastly for showing me how to drink my brain to the mush that is inside of my skull . I'm the poster boy for why you stay away from trying drugs in your younger years because just a few can cause great problems like having a horrible short and long term memory in the future. I'm am honored to receive this award of recognition and I fully accept it. Thank you KC if you ever need a voice actor that sounds like a nose picking mouth breather in the future im not too far off I live in Bakersfield ca close to la. Now I'll let you all get back on topic

*Applauds.

[awkwardalex]

I don't care what any of you say or how you gloat (Nik..) :p

Angel died well, that's all I ever asked for him, after he fell with the tower. I wanted a death for Angel, that was good. A death that had meaning. I didn't want his life to be wasted and it wasn't, he saved Riley. He helped save his friends. He was such a bad ass he was still breathing after a fall from what was it... a 16 story building.
You wanted him to go out with a blaze of glory (Ra1th) Holy shit dude he survived a hell of a fall I sure as hell know none of us would have survived. Then his last word was to basically gave the finger to Scratch.. what more do you want? He was defiant SOB to the bitter end.

RIP Angel

I agree he did not betray them, which probably shocked some because many assumed he was the rat because of some relation with scratch. He DIED protecting them. No he had no real final "words" but he did "F.U." But he did die protecting them, he had the untmost loyalty, he could have spelt the words for some pain medicine but he didn't.

Good for Angel.

And Nic be nice, Angel may not get to lead the tower but he did die protecting them from scratch.

[cupcakezombie]

This has been a long time coming........


HA!!!!!!! HE'S DEAD AND HE'LL NEVER LEAD THE TOWER! BOOM!

Now that being said, I'm sorry for all the Angel fans. That was a rough way to lose your favorite character.

We had this discussion Nik. He was the Tower leader at the start. What you meant to say was he will never lead the Tower after Michael took over. :p <3

[fridginators]

I was so so sad. I somewhat saw it coming, although I did have a glimmer of hope, but I knew once Scratch wasn't getting what she wanted it was over.

I'm honestly speechless. I can't believe Angel is dead. I just really can't. If Saul died I would understand. But Angel? He had so much left to do. He was supposed to lead, god fucking damnit. He evolved so much. And now he's just... dead. Useless. Gone.

I guess it's true what Nik said (on some WND episode a while ago): you can kill off any character you want as long as it develops the story. I just really hope that we do get a chance to hear his voice again - but that's contingent upon if Scratch had actually met him or not, which I doubt judging by what she was saying: she just suspected, but didn't know for certain that he was part of the mob.

Also, about Hannah: we don't know what's happened to her, nor do we know what has happened to Lizzie. It's safe to assume that seeing as Tardust and Bricks are alive Lizzie is too. However, the two people that Scratch recovered at the end of 24 were both men - "put him with the old man... I've found what I was looking for". So given that Burt is alive, it's safe to conclude that:

-Burt is the old man
-Angel was the busted up man they found
-Lizzie is likely safe

Now, given the "I've got two of yours" comment she makes during chapter 24, either she has Hannah or Lizzie's preggers (again, see the title of Chapter 20, "about last night" and Lizzie's morning sickness). I'm personally leaning towards Lizzie being pregnant and Hannah being dead or not even being in the conflict. There is a chance that she could be alive as well as Lizzie being pregnant but I doubt it.

I hate saying "RIP", so I'll simply say that it was a pleasure knowing you Lieutenant Angel Tunudo. You were a soldier until the end.

[Litmaster]

No cliff hanger. She didn't shoot the life support machine. He's done...

Way to crush all hope, you heartless bastard! :D Anyway, I think I distinctly heard a 'splat' as the bullet plowed into him, so I think any machine-shooting theory wouldn't hold up.

So, uh, Kc... when you said a few months ago that Shane would be "available" as a voice actor, this is what you had in mind? A few gurgles??
So how to you pay an actor in that role... on a per-gurgle rate or something??? :D :D :D


Awesome! I'll have to read through the posts. I like to post before reading them and that way I get out my true reaction to the episode. Btw is there any kind of Forum rule or etiquette that goes again this method? This is my first time using Forums to discuss weekly episodes.

Yeah, I don't like it, for one. I feel that any new post should add something to the discussion, and it gets damn tiresome having to read 5 different people who all came up with the same basic idea and presented it as if it's new information. I actually can't read the thread much past the first day, because everything relevant has already been said by then and it becomes a waste of time to read the rest of it. Not much new tends to get posted once you get past page 15 or so...


Just wait til I get my hands on Scratch! I'll make machaca out of her ass! Carnitas! I'll make dog food out of her and feed her to Lady! Hell, I'll eat her and poop her and stomp on her with a dirty guarache!!!! I'm coming for you cabrona!!!! Sincerely, Victor xoxoxo

Go get her ass, dude! You and Saul are my last hope for getting my man, Burt, out of there! Go in with guns blazin'!!!

[Ra1th]

Just wait til I get my hands on Scratch! I'll make machaca out of her ass! Carnitas! I'll make dog food out of her and feed her to Lady! Hell, I'll eat her and poop her and stomp on her with a dirty guarache!!!! I'm coming for you cabrona!!!! Sincerely, Victor xoxoxo

If victor dies too, I'm gonna be in a whole new level of WA depression. DON'T DIE VICTOR! DON'T DIE!

[Nitara]

Did anyone else think Kimmet was a little too adamant about not wanting to experiment on Tanya? Either he's really against the idea, or they've tried it before and it went horribly wrong. I'm betting on the latter.

As for Angel, I'm really sad that he's dead. I'm not a huge Angel fan girl or anything, but his character really grew on me. Rip Angel.

[Osiris]

Rest in peace, Angel. I always knew you were dirty, I just didn't know how dirty you were. This is starting to suck. First Kalani. Now Angel. What's next? We find out Burt was involved in human trafficking with the sex trade industry in Taipei? Someone make it end already!



But hey... the Tower folks are still way more noble than the Mallers. :hsugh:

[7oddisdead]

I'm on vacation so ill be adding nothing useful this week ...that said...

BBBuuuuurrrrttttt!!!!!!:)

[Osiris]

I'm on vacation so ill be adding nothing useful this week ...that said...

BBBuuuuurrrrttttt!!!!!!:)

You rarely add anything useful on an average week.......


BBBuuuuurrrrnnnn!!!!!!:)
















































































Nah, I'm kidding, bitch. Have a relaxing vacaneymoon.

[not_infected]

NO.

I gasped so loud, my coworkers jumped in their seats.

Kc, everyone, fantastic job. We've now reached THAT part of the story. Kc has just put us all on notice: it doesn't matter how much you love a character, nor how much they've grown, nor how much they have left to contribute, nor how much is left to discover about them.

They're all fair game from here on out.

(Except for *cough*Michael*cough*.)

[Osiris]

NO.

I gasped so loud, my coworkers jumped in their seats.

Kc, everyone, fantastic job. We've now reached THAT part of the story. Kc has just put us all on notice: it doesn't matter how much you love a character, nor how much they've grown, nor how much they have left to contribute, nor how much is left to discover about them.

They're all fair game from here on out.

(Except for *cough*Michael*cough*.)

You mean you don't know yet?! Michael has been dead since before chapter one. We've been reading his journal entries. But he dead already, son.

[Privateer]

Re Osiris, I don't think Angel was dirty He didn't have time to be a made man. I think he just had family in a criminal syndicate, and chose to turn away from it to a higher path.

And I was kinda dissapointed in how Angel went. Yeah yeah, anyone can die, but Kalani got to crash a chopper into an oil tanker and got a whole episode to close his storyline off! All Angel gets is no lines and the rep that in the end, he was a badass.

He had so much more to do, in the future. I suppose thats the saddest part. But, thats death I guess. :P

Edit: And I think thats an accurate description of the framing mechanism. The stuff we see is just what was written down or recorded. This is the story if a third generation survivor struggling through why hes one of the five last people on earth. :)

[cupcakezombie]

So we still don't really know if Tania is immune. If this person was a slow turner, would there have been enough of 'whatever makes people turn' in the bite to make Tania turn? Could it be that she is turning even slower? We don't know of any other person who had time to clean the wound after being bitten.
The same with Saul, we don't know it there would have been enough active 'whatever it is that makes people turn' on the bullet that went into him. It could still be just the antibiotics that made him able to breath when he went to ground zero.
It could be a coincidence that they both have immune seeming happenings.
Just playing the Devils Advocate. :)

[yarri]

Re Osiris, I don't think Angel was dirty He didn't have time to be a made man. I think he just had family in a criminal syndicate, and chose to turn away from it to a higher path.

And I was kinda dissapointed in how Angel went. Yeah yeah, anyone can die, but Kalani got to crash a chopper into an oil tanker and got a whole episode to close his storyline off! All Angel gets is no lines and the rep that in the end, he was a badass.

He had so much more to do, in the future. I suppose thats the saddest part. But, thats death I guess. :P

Edit: And I think thats an accurate description of the framing mechanism. The stuff we see is just what was written down or recorded. This is the story if a third generation survivor struggling through why hes one of the five last people on earth. :)

In my profession I see death ever day. I agree with you that death is unfair, unjust, unwarranted and unkind but it is also a blessing at times. In Angel's case death was a blessing. He was suffering, his time was done and he went out as he lived.. defiant and refusing to back down.

[Litmaster]

Stunning episode.... FINALLY we get some answers from the end of Season 2...


Tanya Immune, revisited
Nobody mentioned much about Tanya in all the Angel-weeping going on, but many of us have either been of the opinion that Tanya either developed a zombie-resistant vaccine or that Tanya is immune to Zombism. It certainly seems now like the latter. If she developed an experimental cure, you'd think that would have been the time to mention it. Now the question is how long she is going to remain a prisoner there...


Fallen Angel
Speaking of prisoners, we finally catch up with 'blond boy', who apparently has been reduced to a gurgling mound of hamburger after his fall from the collapsing tower. So:

Kudos to Kc for not snapping the threads of believability by having TWO characters escape a collapsing tower unharmed. The dead Angel thing is a downer, but it would have been a downer even if he lived, given his condition.

As many have pointed out, Angel was apparently born into some type of Mafia family, then tried to go straight. Many of us have theorized a crime background for Angel and this confirms it. Puts his hotwiring skills into context, anyway.

Now the question is why Scratch had Tardust film the whole thing. For whom? If it was for Burt of Lizzy, she would have just brought them in person to see Angel--why make a film of it? The only reason I can think of is that Scratch wanted to use the Angel video to blackmail the Tower-folk into forking over Pegs. What will she do when she finds out that flower girl is now a few thousand miles away, in Colarado??

The Maller's New Digs
Seems unlikely to me that they are at the Colony. If they were, they would have to be at Tanya's old hospital, and it seems unlikely that they would house prisoners there (Burt is clearly in the same building as Angel, given that we followed Scratch's footsteps all the way to his door in one continuous take). Curious to find out where they are now...


The Return of BURT!
I was SOOOOOOO happy to hear the old man's voice--alive and presumably well. You can hear the rattle of manacles when Scratch wakes him up, which tells me that he is at least healthy enough to make an escape if he wasn't chained down. So great! Now is a good time to revisit my old "Dangling Burt" theory, which I posted (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?2843-Chapter-26-quot-Who-Overcomes-quot-Part-1&p=33642&viewfull=1#post33642)back in January as the only conceivably way that Burt could have survived that fall from the broken zip-line:

"Dangling Burt" Theory, 3.0
- Burt was about 3/4 down the zip line when it snapped, the break in the line coming somewhere between him and the building he was sliding to.
- When the line snapped, he fell and screamed, but his Marine training and quick-thinking led him to wrench the hand brake on the now-slack line, causing him to swing backwards and crash into the side of the Tower, knocking him out cold.
- The chopper assumed he fell straight to the ground, and all the smoke and whatnot prevented them from seeing that he was actually dangling about a dozen feet or so off the ground, still hanging from the Tower.
- Since he was off the ground, the Zeds were not able to make a quick snack of him, and they all scattered when the Tower started to collapse.
- Burt came-to moments later, just managing to release the hand brake, drop to the ground, and run a few life-saving yards away when the whole tower came down, engulfing him and everything around it on huge plumes of smoke and debris. Perhaps he got caught under some falling debris and the Mallers captured him from there.


Anyway, I'll be so happy if this isn't just a one-off and the story actually shifts to Burt, Lizzy, and the Mallers for awhile.

It's been a long wait.

[Osiris]

Re Osiris, I don't think Angel was dirty He didn't have time to be a made man. I think he just had family in a criminal syndicate, and chose to turn away from it to a higher path.

And I was kinda dissapointed in how Angel went. Yeah yeah, anyone can die, but Kalani got to crash a chopper into an oil tanker and got a whole episode to close his storyline off! All Angel gets is no lines and the rep that in the end, he was a badass.

He had so much more to do, in the future. I suppose thats the saddest part. But, thats death I guess. :P

Whoa, easy. Who says he was or wasn't a made man? We have no idea how much back story we're missing on Angel. We have no information about his personal life at all. There is NOTHING to prove otherwise. That being said, I never said he was a made man either. I just said he was dirty, and he certainly way. He knew Scratch before all of this, she knew him--they had a history that we don't understand and will probably never know.

As for how Angel went out? He went out like a man. He final words were a big fuck you to Scratch and she put him down. He was dying painfully and slowly. Scratch showed him more mercy than any of you would be likely to show her. Says something about her character, don't it? You could argue that it was out of anger, but it wasn't. Scratch showed she has a huge heart.

/ScratchRant

It would have been awesome if he had gone down shooting though.

[Osiris]

Now the question is why Scratch had Tardust film the whole thing. For whom? If it was for Burt of Lizzy, she would have just brought them in person to see Angel--why make a film of it? The only reason I can think of is that Scratch wanted to use the Angel video to blackmail the Tower-folk into forking over Pegs. What will she do when she finds out that flower girl is now a few thousand miles away, in Colarado??



Durai told them to record it: approx. 8:09.

As for forking over Pegs? Fork Pegs. Fork her over real good.

[Privateer]

I'm more dissapointed in the narrative sense I just felt that character deserved more of a send off. But, he did go out like a boss!

And the reason I said he wasn't a made man is because of his age and background. He was fresh out of OCS,, and likey went into that right out of college. Which meant he had to get into college and do well enough academically to join as an officer. Unless hes stealing cars for the mob at fifteen (And having enough of that backgroind might show up on his background check), he simply doesn't have the time to be a career criminal.

[Kc]

Unless hes stealing cars for at fifteen
That would explain a few things...

[werewolf]

way to go angel give scratch the big F U

[Osiris]

I'm more dissapointed in the narrative sense I just felt that character deserved more of a send off. But, he did go out like a boss!

And the reason I said he wasn't a made man is because of his age and background. He was fresh out of OCS,, and likey went into that right out of college. Which meant he had to get into college and do well enough academically to join as an officer. Unless hes stealing cars for the mob at fifteen (And having enough of that backgroind might show up on his background check), he simply doesn't have the time to be a career criminal.

Not to pick bones, but I've known people who were career criminals BY the age of 15, let alone just starting. Whether or not he was 'made' has nothing to do with his familial connection, as Scratch was so kind to point out.

[cupcakezombie]

What also was interesting about the first part was the discussion on how they can tell if someone is turned, which isn't by the blood.
This can mean two things:
- They can't find/detect what is in the blood that causes the turn
- There is nothing in the blood to detect.
Because they mentioned autopsy we know that there must be some structural changes to the body (what sort?), but it is interesting that they can't find anything in the blood.
The first is most likely, for example, current HIV medications can reduce the virus circulating in the blood to levels where it is undetectable, but if the second is true then blood transmission might not be possible.
How have the people turned that we have seen so far? Riley and Pegs said in Chapter 1 that they only saw people smash into each other. Otherwise it has mostly been bites which lends itself to being caused by saliva rather then blood.

[Privateer]

Not to pick bones, but I've known people who were career criminals BY the age of 15, let alone just starting. Whether or not he was 'made' has nothing to do with his familial connection, as Scratch was so kind to point out.

It still doesn't mesh with him getting out of things enough to get himself into the AR, I think. Background checks for National Security positions can be extensuve. But, now I'm getting into stuff tjat cab be handwaved with poetic license. Considering the man responsible is sayibg cryptic things again, I should withdraw most of my theory . :P

[Osiris]

It still doesn't mesh with him getting out of things enough to get himself into the AR, I think. Background checks for National Security positions can be extensuve. But, now I'm getting into stuff tjat cab be handwaved with poetic license. Considering the man responsible is sayibg cryptic things again, I should withdraw most of my theory . :P

So when Scratch said "You have your dad's name" (14:35)... generally, extensive background checks would include immediate familial relations. They would likely know who his father was, the ties he had, etc. But, names can be changed well enough to... oh wait... no, if that were true, his criminal history wouldn't show up either... hmmm... holes in your theory.

[Nathan.Luiz]

Wow. I never liked Angel at the start, but he really grew on me in Season 2. Thanks Kc, you've killed off 2 of my 3 favourite characters (Angel and Kalani), so please, please let Victor live.

I'd presume Lizzie is still alive as Bricks says he was watching the girl, and obviously Burt is alive too.

Going back to the part of the chapter now being overlooked, I think Tanya might not be immune, just because she was bitten by one that hadn't fully turned it didn't change her.

I'd guess the next chapter will focus around the Mallers and/or Saul/Vic/CJ, as we don't really have any outstanding business at Irwin, unlike we do in LA.

[Privateer]

So when Scratch said "You have your dad's name" (14:35)... generally, extensive background checks would include immediate familial relations. They would likely know who his father was, the ties he had, etc. But, names can be changed well enough to... oh wait... no, if that were true, his criminal history wouldn't show up either... hmmm... holes in your theory.

I just said I should probably withdraw it. But, I more meant, if he wad boosting cars since early to mid teens (or other crimes), and didn't get sent up river once? His prints aren't in the system? Feds weren't keeping ttack of his dad? And then, assuming hr managef to make it through hus youth with nary a blemish, and the DoD didn't catch on yo the fake name ir SSN he was using, he still had the ability to swing into college anf then do well enough that the Army took him as an ifficer and nit just an enlsted person? Thats where my theory lies. But all things that aren't really important if you're trying to craft a story. :)

[Teej]

Damn you KC, teasing us with 10 seconds of burt right before our 2 week withdrawls begin

[Osiris]

I just said I should probably withdraw it. But, I more meant, if he wad boosting cars since early to mid teens (or other crimes), and didn't get sent up river once? His prints aren't in the system? Feds weren't keeping ttack of his dad? And then, assuming hr managef to make it through hus youth with nary a blemish, and the DoD didn't catch on yo the fake name ir SSN he was using, he still had the ability to swing into college anf then do well enough that the Army took him as an ifficer and nit just an enlsted person? Thats where my theory lies. But all things that aren't really important if you're trying to craft a story. :)

There should be a ban on thumb keyboards. Jesus, ok.

Basically, the theory shoots itself in the foot. How could he be one thing without anyone knowing and yet, still be who he is. He isn't or he is. He's either connected to 'the families' or he isn't. Since he is, we can assume that he's either using a fake name or the background check didn't happen. So which is it? Either government ineptitude, or someone is an expert forger and really needs a good pat on the back.

[Privateer]

There should be a ban on thumb keyboards. Jesus, ok.

Basically, the theory shoots itself in the foot. How could he be one thing without anyone knowing and yet, still be who he is. He isn't or he is. He's either connected to 'the families' or he isn't. Since he is, we can assume that he's either using a fake name or the background check didn't happen. So which is it? Either government ineptitude, or someone is an expert forger and really needs a good pat on the back.

My sincere apologies regarding the quality of the last post. It was beneath me. Anyway, my point simple is that he's not a /career/ criminal. Maybe he did get in trouble, maybe his dad was a hardcore criminal. I'm just saying the background might be a little more fresh prince if bel air. Got into some youthful trouble, but turned it around. I guess it does contridict my last statement a bit, so, apologies there. :)

Anyway, its based on aot of assumptions, and KCs viewpoint on the world is likely fairly different. My suspension of disbelief is not going to be shattered if what I'm talking about doesn't matter. :)

[Litmaster]

What also was interesting about the first part was the discussion on how they can tell if someone is turned, which isn't by the blood.
This can mean two things:
- They can't find/detect what is in the blood that causes the turn
- There is nothing in the blood to detect.
Because they mentioned autopsy we know that there must be some structural changes to the body (what sort?), but it is interesting that they can't find anything in the blood.
The first is most likely, for example, current HIV medications can reduce the virus circulating in the blood to levels where it is undetectable, but if the second is true then blood transmission might not be possible.
How have the people turned that we have seen so far? Riley and Pegs said in Chapter 1 that they only saw people smash into each other. Otherwise it has mostly been bites which lends itself to being caused by saliva rather then blood.

Nice thinking, Cupcake!

As further evidence for your 'Saliva, Not Blood' turning theory, I present the guy mentioned in one of the Tower-members journals who smashed a zombie's head apart with his bare hands, yet didn't immediately turn (though he was killed moments later). Remember that guy? Saul asked if he was still there... sounds like a 'bad ass'...

[kairon00]

Well good episode. Sorry about that Wraith you should go on the next Were not dead.

Did anyone bring this up Riley did she like Angel, I mean yes there was the hospital rooftop but do we know because KC just killed off angel. How will it / will it affect Riley if she finds out?

[Osiris]

My sincere apologies regarding the quality of the last post. It was beneath me. Anyway, my point simple is that he's not a /career/ criminal. Maybe he did get in trouble, maybe his dad was a hardcore criminal. I'm just saying the background might be a little more fresh prince if bel air. Got into some youthful trouble, but turned it around. I guess it does contridict my last statement a bit, so, apologies there. :)

Anyway, its based on aot of assumptions, and KCs viewpoint on the world is likely fairly different. My suspension of disbelief is not going to be shattered if what I'm talking about doesn't matter. :)

Aw broseph, I was just playin'. :love: Theories are what keep this place alive. :D Don't let me deter you. I'm just a dick. Seriously... ask anyone who has been here more than 8 months.

[Z Sniper]

If victor dies too, I'm gonna be in a whole new level of WA depression. DON'T DIE VICTOR! DON'T DIE!

I'm trying not to GODDAMMIT, but there's this guy Kc who beholds the mighty pen,...err, keyboard and once he has a little glass of wine there's no telling what he'll do to us!!! I mean look at my man Angel,....SPLAT, IN YO FACE!! LOL

[nikvoodoo]

Aw broseph, I was just playin'. :love: Theories are what keep this place alive. :D Don't let me deter you. I'm just a dick. Seriously... ask anyone who has been here more than 8 months.

or 8 minutes...... ;) just joshin'

One of the really interesting things to me is Tanya gets bit by a slow turner. Thus it slowly turns her but she's cleaned it and (presumably) pumped herself so full of whatever that it stops the spread.

But how does one start the slow turning transmission? Did the guy who bit Tanya get bit by a slower turner himself? What starts the chain reaction of slow turning?

[Osiris]

Nice thinking, Cupcake!

As further evidence for your 'Saliva, Not Blood' turning theory, I present the guy mentioned in one of the Tower-members journals who smashed a zombie's head apart with his bare hands, yet didn't immediately turn (though he was killed moments later). Remember that guy? Saul asked if he was still there... sounds like a 'bad ass'...

Can we get a time code for this reference? I'm not disputing it, merely trying to put the pieces into context for myself.

[Osiris]

or 8 minutes...... ;) just joshin'

One of the really interesting things to me is Tanya gets bit by a slow turner. Thus it slowly turns her but she's cleaned it and (presumably) pumped herself so full of whatever that it stops the spread.

But how does one start the slow turning transmission? Did the guy who bit Tanya get bit by a slower turner himself? What starts the chain reaction of slow turning?

OUCH. True story though.

As for the Slow Divers... I'm working on a theory that will be blogged by Wednesday.

[Hellbringer]

I finally got to hear this while making dinner. What was I making, you ask? It was...


CHEESE AND AGED RICE, that was a thriller of an episode. (no, seriously though, I was preparing dinner for the fam when I finally got to listen to this episode.)

This is going to be such a torturous two weeks.

Burt sounded a lot better than I expected. I guess Marines aren't built like him anymore.

[Osiris]

I have a morning ritual that I need to share. I call it 'the terminator'. First I crouch down in the shower in the classic 'naked terminator traveling through time' pose. With my eyes closed I crouch there for a minute, visualizing either Arnold or the guy from the second movie (not the chick in the third one because that one sucked) and I start to hum the terminator theme. Then I slowly rise to a standing position and open my eyes. It helps me to proceed through my day as an emotionless, cyborg badass. The only problem is if the shower curtain sticks to my terminator leg. It ruins the fantasy.

[awkwardalex]

I have a morning ritual that I need to share. I call it 'the terminator'. First I crouch down in the shower in the classic 'naked terminator traveling through time' pose. With my eyes closed I crouch there for a minute, visualizing either Arnold or the guy from the second movie (not the chick in the third one because that one sucked) and I start to hum the terminator theme. Then I slowly rise to a standing position and open my eyes. It helps me to proceed through my day as an emotionless, cyborg badass. The only problem is if the shower curtain sticks to my terminator leg. It ruins the fantasy.


Why oh why did you need to share that? That belongs in the TMI thread dear Osiris.

[Osiris]

Why oh why did you need to share that? That belongs in the TMI thread dear Osiris.

My thoughts belong any place I vomit them out, dear awkwardlylongnametotypefast.


















































































j/k <3

[Litmaster]

I'm trying not to GODDAMMIT, but there's this guy Kc who beholds the mighty pen,...err, keyboard and once he has a little glass of wine there's no telling what he'll do to us!!! I mean look at my man Angel,....SPLAT, IN YO FACE!! LOL

Wait... how does Victor know that Angel just died???

I've got a NEW THEORY cooking up... something about all the main characters being linked via mental telepathy... :p



One of the really interesting things to me is Tanya gets bit by a slow turner. Thus it slowly turns her but she's cleaned it and (presumably) pumped herself so full of whatever that it stops the spread.

But how does one start the slow turning transmission? Did the guy who bit Tanya get bit by a slower turner himself? What starts the chain reaction of slow turning?

Oh great, now we've got to worry about watered-down zombie spit? So what if a passing zombie slobbers on a beer bottle, then you come along and take a swig, not seeing that little bit of Z-spittle on the glass, then BA-ZOWIE!!!


Can we get a time code for this reference? I'm not disputing it, merely trying to put the pieces into context for myself.

Ah shiiiiiit... you're gonna make me actually work for this one? Hold on...



.....aaaaand found that timestamp.
That bad-ass, head-smashing husband dude is mentioned at 4:50 back in Ch. 4-3, "Rules & Regulations"

[awkwardalex]

Wait... how does Victor know that Angel just died???

I've got a NEW THEORY cooking up... something about all the main characters being linked via mental telepathy... :p




Oh great, now we've got to worry about watered-down zombie spit? So what if a passing zombie slobbers on a beer bottle, then you come along and take a swig, not seeing that little bit of Z-spittle on the glass, then BA-ZOWIE!!!



Ah shiiiiiit... you're gonna make me actually work for this one? Hold on...

Because Victor is aparently the only one with access to the forum

[Osiris]

Because Victor is aparently the only one with access to the forum

No. He's just the only one who doesn't have us all on FB yet.

[Phayz]

Unless hes stealing cars for the mob at fifteen


That would explain a few things...

is this a hint?!

Hmmmm, I think I remember....wasn't there a scene (cant remember if it was saul or angel, im gonna have to re-listen now!) where they had to hotwire a car, and one of them asked the other how he knew how to do that?

[Osiris]

*cough* *cough* Like I said *cough*

[Phayz]

*cough* *cough* Like I said *cough*


Blah, should have known someone already brought this up.

[Red Shirt]

I wasn't able to hang out at the computer for these as they rolled in, so bear with me please.


Of course! Any other ?'s?

Indeed. Are we talking Family in the Blood sense or in the Mafioso sense?

One segment in that final conversation, I immediately rewound and turned up to make sure I heard Scratch correctly. THE Family. My first thought was The Family from Torchwood: Miracle Day. I just so happened to be re-listening to "Mark of the Beast" yesterday and again now. Part 2/3 at 8:23:

"They will follow us and find us no matter where we go. That thing on the ground is just the beginning, and Durai understands that."

It would seem that Durai (and possibly Scratch) know a whole lot more about what is going on. With the rings now having come to light, I wonder if maybe The Family had something to do with, or had inside knowledge on the Zombie apocalypse.

Why would a secret society world ending conspiracy want/need "common" thugs and convicts? If The Family was behind it and they are as powerful as they would need to be, they would need 'agents' everywhere.

I was listening to Number Stations for a bit on the computer and my cat jumped on my keyboard. Since Zune was open to get the above time code, she managed to push the Play button hot key and launched an episode of WA. That was CREEPY. WA Soundtrack with Number stations in the background.


From this episode we know that Angel was connected with one of "the Families" and named after his father. I'm assuming the Families refers to the Mafia. There was a famous Mafia hitman named Frederick "The Angel" Tenuto. His last name and our Angel's are spelled differently, and there's a big time gap between the two, but I think it's too close to be a complete coincidence.

Tenuto escaped from the Philadelphia County Prison along with Willie Sutton in 1947. He spent 10 years on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted List, and is rumored to have died in the early 60s.

The timeline seems to be consistant for Frederick "The Angel" Tenuto to have been his grandfather though.


I'd say throat but that would be to quick....Something tells me the chef wants to try out her kitchen knife skills on Ms Scratch.

Take away Scratches knives and stick them in all her vital organs, in alphabetical order. Chefs do that, right?


You mean you don't know yet?! Michael has been dead since before chapter one. We've been reading his journal entries. But he dead already, son.

My crackpot theory is that the entire retelling is a deposition being taken by a lawyer. (other then Kelly) From a jail cell. Micheal's Jail cell.



Quote Originally Posted by Privateer:
Unless hes stealing cars for ... at fifteen

That would explain a few things...

Your method of editing for brevity is perhaps... telling.

[awkwardalex]

Originally Posted by Privateer

Unless hes stealing cars for at fifteen


That would explain a few things...

Oh goddammit.

[Osiris]

My crackpot theory is that the entire retelling is a deposition being taken by a lawyer. (other then Kelly) From a jail cell. Micheal's Jail cell.


You're probably not far off.

[Leedo2502]

So when Scratch said "You have your dad's name" (14:35)... generally, extensive background checks would include immediate familial relations. They would likely know who his father was, the ties he had, etc. But, names can be changed well enough to... oh wait... no, if that were true, his criminal history wouldn't show up either... hmmm... holes in your theory.

I doubt Angel was a going around with LA gangs slingin' rock and jackin rides. I'm sure he did enough to get his nose a little dirty but all in all he was a Boy Scout. The Military isn't big on kicking you out based on your family... Mohamed Farrah Aidids (Somalia warlord and all around dick) had a son that was in the USMC, I think no one in the military would care if Angel had a wise guy for a dad.

[GeneTwo]

Now Riley and Angel will never be able to hook up :(

You never know. Riley did get drunk alot. I wonder if Angel ever took advantage?

[Matt Gossett]

I started listening a second time, and got depressed being reminded Angel was dead. He went out like a Gangsta. A couple points I noticed in the re listen. After the second war scratch said there he is, I found what I looking for. I would assume that the “Kalani's still alive” theories would fall apart. Also CupCakeZombie mentioned it first, but Puck said, “we've checked infected blood once, but there's no difference we've been able to tell”. I'm not sure what that means, but it seems significant to me.

[SeLeevi]

Great episode thank you KC and the crew!


Rest in peace, Angel. I always knew you were dirty, I just didn't know how dirty you were. This is starting to suck. First Kalani. Now Angel. What's next? We find out Burt was involved in human trafficking with the sex trade industry in Taipei? Someone make it end already!

Burt was not exactly legit, remember the weapons, explosives and silencer(s)... would not be surprising if he would find some former customers among the Mallers.

[threadbare]

hello.... this is my first post so bare with me.... i'm not usually one to be on forums but this story has got under my skin so i couldn't stay away... there have been a few things said in this thread that i want to comment on: first... withe regards to Angel's possible criminal past. Any trouble he may have gotten into with the law as a minor would not have come up in a backround check as the records could have been sealed (also, during the recruiting push for Iraq, the military relaxed many of the rules regarding accepting applicants with non-violent criminal records). second...the theory that blood is not the carrier of infection...what about Tommy?

[trubkir]

I have a morning ritual that I need to share. I call it 'the terminator'. First I crouch down in the shower in the classic 'naked terminator traveling through time' pose. With my eyes closed I crouch there for a minute, visualizing either Arnold or the guy from the second movie (not the chick in the third one because that one sucked) and I start to hum the terminator theme. Then I slowly rise to a standing position and open my eyes. It helps me to proceed through my day as an emotionless, cyborg badass. The only problem is if the shower curtain sticks to my terminator leg. It ruins the fantasy.


Aw crap I can never unread this post. It will be in my synapsis forever. Riley have you got a drink?

[Osiris]

hello.... this is my first post so bare with me.... i'm not usually one to be on forums but this story has got under my skin so i couldn't stay away... there have been a few things said in this thread that i want to comment on: first... withe regards to Angel's possible criminal past. Any trouble he may have gotten into with the law as a minor would not have come up in a backround check as the records could have been sealed (also, during the recruiting push for Iraq, the military relaxed many of the rules regarding accepting applicants with non-violent criminal records). second...the theory that blood is not the carrier of infection...what about Tommy?

Welcome! Feel free to bounce over to the introduction thread and tell us about yourself.

I'd provide a link... but... I'm lazy today.

[Osiris]

Aw crap I can never unread this post. It will be in my synapsis forever. Riley have you got a drink?

No gym for home?

[trubkir]

No gym for home?

In the words of the virgin mary "Come again?"

[trubkir]

And yet another apropos movie quote "On a long enough time line everyone's survivability is zero" RIP Lt. Angel

[Condor]

What also was interesting about the first part was the discussion on how they can tell if someone is turned, which isn't by the blood.
This can mean two things:
- They can't find/detect what is in the blood that causes the turn
- There is nothing in the blood to detect.
Because they mentioned autopsy we know that there must be some structural changes to the body (what sort?), but it is interesting that they can't find anything in the blood.
The first is most likely, for example, current HIV medications can reduce the virus circulating in the blood to levels where it is undetectable, but if the second is true then blood transmission might not be possible.
How have the people turned that we have seen so far? Riley and Pegs said in Chapter 1 that they only saw people smash into each other. Otherwise it has mostly been bites which lends itself to being caused by saliva rather then blood.
I've always thought of the infection as something like mutated rabies. From what I understand, the only way to test an animal suspected of having rabies is to kill it and examine the brain. So, maybe that would also be the case with the zombies. Also along those lines, I believe anyone who works with animals (like veterinarians) get rabies vaccinations. That might explain Tanya immunity and if Saul had helped her, it would explain his as well.



His death counted though. It wasn't wasted, he bought Riley's life with his own. In the end he died as a solder defending someone defenseless. What better death could he have had? He died with honor "spitting" in the face of his enemy. In my books Angel died a bad ass.
A better death? How about a heart attack while banging Riley?
At least, that's how I want to go, heart attack while getting lucky.

[trubkir]

I've always thought of the infection as something like mutated rabies. From what I understand, the only way to test an animal suspected of having rabies is to kill it and examine the brain. So, maybe that would also be the case with the zombies. Also along those lines, I believe anyone who works with animals (like veterinarians) get rabies vaccinations. That might explain Tanya immunity and if Saul had helped her, it would explain his as well.

The brain exam is the definitive answer for diagnosing rabies in animals. In humans the victim goes through a number of tests including hair folicles, serum, spinal fluid and skin biopsy tests. I know that veterinarians are fairly well versed on rabies as they vaccinate animals all the time and have to answer questions from clients about the disease. I doubt regular human doctors would know much about it as it is rare in humans these days. I'm not disparaging doctors by the way they are overloaded and why would they keep current on something they might never see.

[Godsendunlimited]

Man...... Angel is dead..... I knew it could have been a possibility from the war but I always figured he was alive but now he was shot and most certainly dead... Burt better break out reveal where the maullers are (collapsed tower? Hospital? They did find doctors.) and meet up with Saul Vic and CJ. I imagine that going down like CJ sees him tells the other 2 and they recongnize him

[Red Shirt]

Thanks for the rep BTW, Litmaster.

In reference to your question, if the theory that "The Family" was either behind or privy to the outbreak before it happened, would Angel have known about this? I would say no, from the "conversation" with Scratch, I gathered that he was trying to distance himself from them as much as possible.

I'm kinda getting a bit of a "The Skulls" vibe from it. You may leave, you can turn your back, but you can never truly get out. I wonder when he did make his decision to leave? Was it early on? In collage? In the Army? His joining the military could have been merely part of him trying to win favor and gain rank within The Family, much like you did in Skull and Bones.

What level of family are we talking here anyway? Mafioso or New World Order Age of Reason Conspiracy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones)? If you want to reduce global population to 500 million, then Zombie plague is as good a way as any. Weed out the weak so only the strong and clever survive.

As it seems that the outbreak may have had geological origins, if the Family had prior knowledge, then we could have an ancient secret society on our hands, perhaps even following prophecy.

***

More random thoughts:

Saul - Tanya
Datu - Samantha - Hope
Kalani - Hannah - Mallers - Tower 1 - Tower 2
Angel - Latch - Scratch - Durai

I get the feeling that we have only seen the tip of the connections iceberg. There is more to come, we are for all intents and purposes only about half way through this story.



I just realized how disjointed this is getting... I better post before it starts making even less sense.

[Osiris]

ibDawsonJokes

[Bozilla]

Poor Angel,

It's almost the same as what happened the Chef once Issac left the cast of South Park.

Shane leaves and his upright, uptight, wordy, health conscious soldier becomes a pile of unmoving messed up flesh that can only grunt, draw few letter words and turns out to be a made man.

Either that or it's a SuperBowl ring or one like Astronaughts get or Fraternity (I've run out of rings in Columbo episodes)

Nice to hear the Mallers and Burt back.

It is gonna be a long two weeks this time.

[Osiris]

Poor Angel,

It's almost the same as what happened the Chef once Issac left the cast of South Park.

Shane leaves and his upright, uptight, wordy, health conscious soldier becomes a pile of unmoving messed up flesh that can only grunt, draw few letter words and turns out to be a made man.

Either that or it's a SuperBowl ring or one like Astronaughts get or Fraternity (I've run out of rings in Columbo episodes)

Nice to hear the Mallers and Burt back.

It is gonna be a long two weeks this time.

Or it was simply a family crest. Some familes do use them still.

[USMC-CPL-Zombiekiller]

I havent and never wanted to comment on episodes since I became a fan but this episode deserves one.

I personally really never liked Angel. From the first time I heard him, he sounded like a typical officer. "My shit doesnt stink" kinda guy. Season 2, there was some points where he gained some respect in my eyes. Though he never moved into my "like" category.

This episode on the other hand jumped him from the bottom of the list to the top. Even when left for dead, broken, burned and barely alive. He held his ground protecting his friends. He died a Soldiers Death and deserves a memorial.

*Salute* R.I.P Angel Tunudo *Cut*
Tell Saint Peter "Another Soldier reporting. I served my time in Hell."

Now Burt!

I thought i was going to have a heart attack when I heard Burts voice.
All I can say is "Give 'em Marine! Name, Rank, Service Number! Dont give them ANYTHING!!!"

[Osiris]

And yet, Kalani's actor of valor is roundly shit on.

[Cabbage Patch]

And yet, Kalani's actor of valor is roundly shit on.


I have no criticism of Kalani's death—he sacrificed himself trying to save his comrades. It was his actions as the Rat that I still haven't reconciled, and those do taint the (imaginary) man's legacy.

[Osiris]

I have no criticism of Kalani's death—he sacrificed himself trying to save his comrades. It was his actions as the Rat that I still haven't reconciled, and those do taint the (imaginary) man's legacy.

:love:

[yarri]

And yet, Kalani's actor of valor is roundly shit on.


You know how I feel about Kalani..

[VEE]

Michael: Tanya, you ok?

Tanya: Michael, thank God, you’re here.

Michael: Tanya, show me.

Tanya: I can explain, if you just listen to me. I know how the whole thing started, how to immunise ourselves against it and how to save the whole of humankind, if you’ll just listen to me for a second.

Michael: Let me see.

Tanya: Michael, I know where Burt is, and Angel, I know where Saul is, Lizzy, how to get to Scratch and Durai, I know all about Boulder and there’s some things you really need to know about this place, Irwin, just listen to me for one moment.

Michael: Tanya!

Tanya: Were you really military intelligence?

Riley: I’m horny, has anybody seen Vee?

-----

Way to go Mikey.

Bye Angel.

Also, when asked where Tanya was bitten, Puck says ‘Forum’. This is a dangerous place.

:)

[Osiris]

Hehehe. Yeah. I'm just sayin.

[clem131]

What an episode O_O I would say the best so far. Jenna's performance was CRAZY. The caring and almost tender way Scratch spoke to Angel will give me the creeps for nights and nights. Brrrr.

While I was listening, I kept hoping Angel would say something (i.e. hearing Shane Salk's voice). Somehow, I could not stop thinking about the obvious fact that he was not recording this. I hope this doesn't mean Shane won't be on the show anymore.

[Osiris]

What an episode O_O I would say the best so far. Jenna's performance was CRAZY. The caring and almost tender way Scratch spoke to Angel will give me the creeps for nights and nights. Brrrr.

While I was listening, I kept hoping Angel would say something (i.e. hearing Shane Salk's voice). Somehow, I could not stop thinking about the obvious fact that he was not recording this. I hope this doesn't mean Shane won't be on the show anymore.

Very true. Shane probably will appear again--I hope. You're also incredibly right about Jenna's performance. It was pitch perfect and really fantastic to hear her soft side come through.

[Memis]

Well I don't think Scratch Killed the real angel. With burns all over his body Identification of him wouldn't of been possible...(Angel is my favorite Character). At least I hope. Im wondering how long Tanya was bitten, If the military had blood tests between zombies and Human im sure there would be some form of infection, even if it isn't a zombie bug, the blood would have SOME discrepancy. Im assuming that most infections would manifest, even ones that do not pose a threat when your alive, you body in my opinion would light up like a christmas tree. Full of diseases that the body can no longer defend against. But I'm loving the story line! lol

[Memis]

What an episode O_O I would say the best so far. Jenna's performance was CRAZY. The caring and almost tender way Scratch spoke to Angel will give me the creeps for nights and nights. Brrrr.

While I was listening, I kept hoping Angel would say something (i.e. hearing Shane Salk's voice). Somehow, I could not stop thinking about the obvious fact that he was not recording this. I hope this doesn't mean Shane won't be on the show anymore.

She sounds like my ex-wife....gives me the creeps too.

[Godsendunlimited]

Or it was simply a family crest. Some familes do use them still.

Man I think your right! She said it was a "birth right" so what if it is a family crest? The family could actualy be a family

[nikvoodoo]

You know what's sad and I just realized? We're halfway through this season already....6 Chapters in....6 to go....

I'm gonna pull a Datu and cry in the corner....

[Bullethead]

So did we ever find out who the three figures were walking in the distance of this chapters cover art?

[Cabbage Patch]

I was sitting here puzzling over how the tale of Angel's death could be told, since Angel clearly wasn't going to make a journal entry. I wondered whether Bricks, or Tardust, or even Scratch was going to change sides, or get captured. Then it came to me, our guys are going to watch the video tape the Mallers made!

[Adventureless_Hero]

Ha! I was totally right for defending Nurse Britt. They waited until the sedatives wore off before giving her a proper check up.

So yeah...that episode happened. Fuck.

I couldn't tell where the winner of the walk-on role was.
That was pretty badass that Kimmet didn't give Tanya the million mile walk immediately. It's cool they are keeping Tanya, but I wonder if she has the potential to infect others. She may not be infected, but she could be a carrier of the zombie virus, and possibly Saul too.

I'm assuming that Scratch's "Do whatever I want" attitude is going to catch up with her. Aside from leading the attack on the Tower without Durai's order to do so, Scratch also asks Angel all the questions Durai didn't care to know. Durai wanted to know about munitions and such, but Scratch was just like, "Fuck that. I'm going to talk to him about my personal shit and then kill him." I hope Durai watches the video and says, "Oh, my dear sweet Scratch. You're are batshit crazy. I don't like that. Goodbye." BANG! I'm really hoping Bricks turns on the Mallers.

It kinda sucks that at this point I have no way of knowing where to tie in Angel's death on the timeline.

[Privateer]

Well I don't think Scratch Killed the real angel. With burns all over his body Identification of him wouldn't of been possible...(Angel is my favorite Character). At least I hope. Im wondering how long Tanya was bitten, If the military had blood tests between zombies and Human im sure there would be some form of infection, even if it isn't a zombie bug, the blood would have SOME discrepancy. Im assuming that most infections would manifest, even ones that do not pose a threat when your alive, you body in my opinion would light up like a christmas tree. Full of diseases that the body can no longer defend against. But I'm loving the story line! lol

That was my theory too, given that Scratch mentioned his face veing messed up, and the other ganger noting the subject as 'it'. And the Maulers were video taping, and went out of their way to keep that tube in his throat. That, and the fact that there was no speaking role gave the impression that it certainly could be some creative cinametography by the maulers. But theres also the housekeeping statements about how he got down (rappeling off the broken zipline). And, given the fact that Kc like... just went out and said it, I imagine the lack of a speaking role was either a lack of availability if Mr. Salk. or just Kc playing it straight with the extensive injuries required. It did feel a little like the chef thing though. Kinda like they needed to quickly put a bookend on the Angel character for off camera reasons. :P

Doesn't mean he didn't go out like a man though!

[Osiris]

I don't know about anybody else, but the groans sounded very Shane-ish.

[Privateer]

I don't know about anybody else, but the groans sounded very Shane-ish.


Kinda have to agree with you there. Much as I like the 'its not Angel' theory, evidence is strongly against it. And, you know, confirmed and all.

I still think it was a strange narrative decision, though! But this show has been nothing be thorough on the details, so, I wouldn't be surprised. :P

[MenashaCorpse]

I couldn't tell where the winner of the walk-on role was.


:yay: That's a compliment. Or at least it's gonna be taken that way.

[Adventureless_Hero]

:yay: That's a compliment. Or at least it's gonna be taken that way.

It totally is! I posted on FB that I thought the doctor was a professional actor. Sounded totally natural. Was that you?

[MenashaCorpse]

It totally is! I posted on FB that I thought the doctor was a professional actor. Sounded totally natural. Was that you?

Yup. Professional Doctor, so... I kinda had an advantage. But thanks for the kind words!! It was a blast being there and doing it.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Yup. Professional Doctor, so... I kinda had an advantage. But thanks for the kind words!! It was a blast being there and doing it.

Why couldn't you save Angel? Go back in there, inject him with zombie venom and see what happens. It'll be interesting to see Angel reanimated with half of his head missing. (Pretty sure Scratch blew his brains out) :P

[Privateer]

Now I find myself curious. They never established that the virus actually reanimated anyone, did they? :P

*drags Angel's corpse to a pet cemetary with a crazed look in his eyes, hands Adventureless_hero a shovel* We can bring him back!

[zombie19]

Couple things.

We didn't hear from Puck, which leads me to believe that he's under observation from when he was injured by Tanya.

Angel and the rings. I'm going through the series for my third time I think and Angel had a chance to see Latch and/or Scratch wearing their rings. It was the first time they found the tower when Scratch recognized Angle. I will go back and listen to Angel's reaction to Scratch. But I think he would have had plenty of time to see the ring(s).

Angel wasn't my favorite, but I was sad to see him go. I just wished he could of had some last words. kc you got me when Angel put down the letter "F," So glad he didn't turn on his friends. He died with honor. I also broke out in goosebumps when Tardust said that Angel slid down a metal rope that was connected to the tanker.

Why was it connected to the tanker?
Was the other half of the zip line that broke? I assuming Burt was on the other end of the zip line. He must have clamped down when he felt the line go limp. That would put him dangling from the other building.

I also thought kc cleared up the missing of Tanya's bite really nice.

[Cabbage Patch]

Yup. Professional Doctor, so... I kinda had an advantage. But thanks for the kind words!! It was a blast being there and doing it.

Congratulations on your appearance on the podcast! I would never have guessed that you were a fan doing a walk-on. If this whole doctor thing doesn't work out maybe you should try your hand at voice acting!

[Adventureless_Hero]

Now I find myself curious. They never established that the virus actually reanimated anyone, did they? :P

*drags Angel's corpse to a pet cemetary with a crazed look in his eyes, hands Adventureless_hero a shovel* We can bring him back!

Funny you mention that. My friends and I were discussing it just last night. I am of the opinion that these creatures aren't technically zombies, atleast not the kind where they seem to live on despite being severed in half or missing all their internal organs save for the brain. These creatures are more like infected people. I've not heard of a reanimated corpse on this show yet either. They eat, they die from various methods (that is to say they don't have to be killed with a gun shot to the head), and so I think they are alive, like the title of the show says.

[Privateer]

Funny you mention that. My friends and I were discussing it just last night. I am of the opinion that these creatures aren't technically zombies, atleast not the kind where they seem to live on despite being severed in half or missing all their internal organs save for the brain. These creatures are more like infected people. I've not heard of a reanimated corpse on this show yet either. They eat, they die from various methods (that is to say they don't have to be killed with a gun shot to the head), and so I think they are alive, like the title of the show says.

Which brings up the intereasting point if what that means to the smart ones. Or regarding zombie cooperation. Its shown that some did have a degree of intelligence. So.... what happens to the brain to keep intelligence, but alter motivation so drasticly?

[Witch_Doctor]

Also, when asked where Tanya was bitten, Puck says ‘Forum’. This is a dangerous place.

:) :cool:
Very Funny

[Adventureless_Hero]

My buddy found this online and I thought it was very appropriate for the episode.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/adventureless_hero/deadangel.jpg

R.I.P Angel Tenudo. :'(

[Bullethead]

Which brings up the intereasting point if what that means to the smart ones. Or regarding zombie cooperation. Its shown that some did have a degree of intelligence. So.... what happens to the brain to keep intelligence, but alter motivation so drasticly?

This is a good question brought up. Someone smarter than I might be able to answer. But think of it as a sort of Mob Mentality. Alone people are smart and think analytically. Together people are stupid and react rather than think. ?? maybe ??

[Privateer]

This is a good question brought up. Someone smarter than I might be able to answer. But think of it as a sort of Mob Mentality. Alone people are smart and think analytically. Together people are stupid and react rather than think. ?? maybe ??

Well with the independent biters, or even jumpers and behemoths, rabies can mess you up! They don't show much reasoning or though capability beyond instinct, and they could have been reduced to mindless rage monsters. The squicky part comes along when they start working towards a goal. How efficient is their communication? Do they think?

We know the smart ones can think, and likley have some memory of past life, so... why are they helping thw zombies.

The mire I think about it, the more the ant correlary makes... a lot if sense..... hmmmmn...

[Bonnonon]

Another great episode Kc!

I like the narrative and how Angel died. If every character got a big send off the story would not be enjoyable.


or 8 minutes...... ;) just joshin'

But how does one start the slow turning transmission? Did the guy who bit Tanya get bit by a slower turner himself? What starts the chain reaction of slow turning?

Maybe the slow turner had half immunity through father or mother b/c of the gene everyone thinks Tanya has...


Very true. Shane probably will appear again--I hope. You're also incredibly right about Jenna's performance. It was pitch perfect and really fantastic to hear her soft side come through.

I think she is emotionally imbalanced and is trying to find someone to fill the void of her dead brother. Was she being nice for the sake of being nice or to get the information... I would like to think the latter.

[Robzombie]

uhhh... what's the cause of the zombification? lol
nah, no more.

Remember the explosion in the first chapter...and now the crack ground located at "ground zero"...I'm guessing secret underground experiments....or some other underground occurance, natural yet never before experienced, or other...happened globally...just some thoughts.

[Chogidog]

Remember the explosion in the first chapter...and now the crack ground located at "ground zero"...I'm guessing secret underground experiments....or some other underground occurance, natural yet never before experienced, or other...happened globally...just some thoughts.

Yeah, It was more of a joke question for Kc than a real question.

[Witch_Doctor]

This is a good question brought up. Someone smarter than I might be able to answer. But think of it as a sort of Mob Mentality. Alone people are smart and think analytically. Together people are stupid and react rather than think. ?? maybe ??

This certainly seems to be the case with Ninjas. Fight one Ninja and you're f..ked. With each additional Ninja your chances increase exponentially.

[Robzombie]

Well I don't think Scratch Killed the real angel. With burns all over his body Identification of him wouldn't of been possible...(Angel is my favorite Character). At least I hope.

Something just occured to me thinking about how this could happen...it seems that it is the wreakage of the helicoptor that scratch is walking past after the tower fell when they find the other body to put "by the old man", just what if it was Kolani they found. After Angel had rappelled from the tower he may have found Kolani and put the ring in his pocket....(much easier than placing on a burnt finger) what were the other items found? a wallet (empty?) and something else...did angel make previous mention of not having his wallet anymore, i dont remember...

[Privateer]

Something just occured to me thinking about how this could happen...it seems that it is the wreakage of the helicoptor that scratch is walking past after the tower fell when they find the other body to put "by the old man", just what if it was Kolani they found. After Angel had rappelled from the tower he may have found Kolani and put the ring in his pocket....(much easier than placing on a burnt finger) what were the other items found? a wallet (empty?) and something else...did angel make previous mention of not having his wallet anymore, i dont remember...

That occured to me too, but the mention of rappeling scars on his hands kinda negates the idea of it being Kalini (How we he have gotten them?) And as well, I don't know how much weight Kalini lost, but, I think Angel and his body types were a little different. :)

And then theres the reaction to Scratch's questions.

[Robzombie]

Yeah, It was more of a joke question for Kc than a real question.

Oh I do realize that, I'm just not on the forum enough to know if that's already the general sentiment of the origin for the outbreak, yet for a while now its how I thought it started (of course lacking any real details).

[Robzombie]

That occured to me too, but the mention of rappeling scars on his hands kinda negates the idea of it being Kalini (How we he have gotten them?) And as well, I don't know how much weight Kalini lost, but, I think Angel and his body types were a little different. :)

And then theres the reaction to Scratch's questions.

haha, yeah I suppose, forgot about that actually. But I did think that Kalani would have all the reason in the world, via Hanna, to be anything but helpful to Scratch. Okay okay, Angel is done...like any of the characters I was sad to see him go...

[Natagora]

Kc, cast members, I salute you. I lived every minute of that, the heavy, struggled breathing, the cold voice of Scratch, the heart monitor speeding up and down, the grunts. Everything. Plus Angel went out like a complete boss by writing 'fuck you'. What a man. I haven't been plunged into a pit of depression purely due to the return of Burts gruff voice, but Angel was still pretty kickass-enough that I wish he was back up and running. What I'd give to have Michael, Angel and Saul running around the streets of LA again together. I digress - great episode.

[Privateer]

haha, yeah I suppose, forgot about that actually. But I did think that Kalani would have all the reason in the world, via Hanna, to be anything but helpful to Scratch. Okay okay, Angel is done...like any of the characters I was sad to see him go...

Hey, despite my sentiment, I /still/ think it wasn't Angel. And this is after Kc confirmed Angel as dead. So, I do understand the motivation. But itd far more likley that we'd be overthinking things like "Well, Kc just confirmed that the life support machine wasn't shot and that 'he' was dead, not naming Angel specifically." But, that just comes from a place that wanted to see Angel Lando his way into the maulers and theb have adventures with Burt. :/

Dreams!

[yarri]

Hey, despite my sentiment, I /still/ think it wasn't Angel. And this is after Kc confirmed Angel as dead. So, I do understand the motivation. But itd far more likley that we'd be overthinking things like "Well, Kc just confirmed that the life support machine wasn't shot and that 'he' was dead, not naming Angel specifically." But, that just comes from a place that wanted to see Angel Lando his way into the maulers and theb have adventures with Burt. :/

Dreams!

Pretty sure Kc wasn't bsing us.. Its not in his nature to bs.. Angel is dead....

Translated into Star Trekese.. "He's dead, Jim."

[Big G]

I would find it really funny if somehow when Scratch interrogates Burt and she asks where the tower survivors were going, and Burt tells them the first city that he could think of to throw them off and he says they're going to Boulder,Colorado not knowing that is where the army was sending Kelly,Pegs,Datu and Hope.

[Privateer]

Pretty sure Kc wasn't bsing us.. Its not in his nature to bs.. Angel is dead....

Translated into Star Trekese.. "He's dead, Jim."

Yeah. Like I said, dreams!

[Nate Eeez]

A theory for Angel's past: The Family could also refer to Gypses. If he was caught hotwiring cars, the judge could have given him an ultimatum. "Jail or military school." Sounds like he's been away from his past life for a long time.

I think Scratch's sweet talk was real. I think she wants out of the Mallers and she is willing to do what it takes. You can tell she is totally and openly defying Durai.

Thanks to Kc and everybody for another great chapter.

[Cabbage Patch]

I like the possible Gypsy angle! Not so sure about the "Jail or Military" ultimatum. If Angel had gone to a military school I would like to think it would have seasoned him a bit, at least made him more attentive in his handling of other soldiers. When the story started he was a VERY bad Second Lieutenant, arrogant, unwilling to listen and afraid to actually take the lead. He got better (most young Lieutenants do), but the fact that he started so badly makes me think this was still all very new to him.

[Nate Eeez]

I like the possible Gypsy angle! Not so sure about the "Jail or Military" ultimatum. If Angel had gone to a military school I would like to think it would have seasoned him a bit, at least made him more attentive in his handling of other soldiers. When the story started he was a VERY bad Second Lieutenant, arrogant, unwilling to listen and afraid to actually take the lead. He got better (most young Lieutenants do), but the fact that he started so badly makes me think this was still all very new to him.

I believe it was mentioned in the first chapter that he went to officer school. I'm not military. I don't know if that is what it's called.

[yarri]

i believe it was mentioned in the first chapter that he went to officer school. I'm not military. I don't know if that is what it's called.

ocs?

[Nate Eeez]

OCS? Obese Cooking Student?

[nikvoodoo]

OCS? Obese Cooking Student?

Not quite. Though there is a whole show dedicated to overweight chefs on some channel....

Officer Candidate School, I believe.

[Nate Eeez]

Not quite. Though there is a whole show dedicated to overweight chefs on some channel....

Officer Candidate School, I believe.

Thanks.

Theory on the world wide "hot spots". Perhaps, Mother Earth is cleaning house. Could be what happened to the dinosaurs:-)
Zombiesaurs!

[HorrorHiro]

Something tells me I'm the only person who was smiling when the gunshot rang.

[Kc]

Why was it connected to the tanker?
Was the other half of the zip line that broke? .

The line had already broke before he tried to go down.

[Kc]

Yeah. Like I said, dreams!

Nope. Angel is dead.

-Signed-

Dreamcrusher.

[yarri]

Nope. Angel is dead.

-Signed-

Dreamcrusher.

I tried to tell them.... they wouldn't listen to me..

[Adventureless_Hero]

My buddy found this online and I thought it was very appropriate for the episode.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/adventureless_hero/deadangel.jpg

R.I.P Angel Tenudo. :'(

You'll have to update Angel's wiki page.

[IamPaul]

Just when I thought that the last Chapter was great, this part made Chapter 29 the best yet. What a great episode. Maybe Burt should give up where they went to. There is little chance of the Mallers making it out there or even survivng what the Fort had to attack with, and maybe Burt and Lizzy (and saul and Victor and CJ if they meet up with the Mallers) could make it there into Ft. Iriwn. but then where do we go Season 4? Who knows. But I did realize we are about 75% done with the the series :( It is gonna get good!

[GChild78]

I got home a while ago to a sobbing girlfriend sitting in front of my pc. When I asked what was wrong, she replied "Angel's dead." I just knelt there holding her, stumped, cause we don't know anyone named Angel in real life. After a short pause, she kinda got the hint that I was clueless as to who she meant and went apeshit on me. She started going off about how stupid I am, what a big bitch Pegs is, and some real awful vocabulary about Scratch...

I just finished listening to the chapter...sad stuff indeed.

BUT BURT'S ALIVE!!!!!! WOO!!! :yay:

Just do me a favor KC and don't kill off Saul...he and I (I hope) are all she has left...lol

[Kc]

I got home a while ago to a sobbing girlfriend sitting in front of my pc. When I asked what was wrong, she replied "Angel's dead." I just knelt there holding her, stumped, cause we don't know anyone named Angel in real life. After a short pause, she kinda got the hint that I was clueless as to who she meant and went apeshit on me. She started going off about how stupid I am, what a big bitch Pegs is, and some real awful vocabulary about Scratch...

I just finished listening to the chapter...sad stuff indeed.

BUT BURT'S ALIVE!!!!!! WOO!!! :yay:

Just do me a favor KC and don't kill off Saul...he and I (I hope) are all she has left...lol

Wow... that's powerful stuff. Poor Girl :( Is her name Ra1th? (I'M SORRY EVERYONE< I HAD TO!!) Sorry, that's just someone we all know who loved that character.

[Drogon Malice]

i agree please don't kill burt KC i'll buy you dinner if you keep him alive XD

[GChild78]

No...lol. I know who Ra1th is. I hope he's not a big drama queen like my Abigail. She's a big lover of happy endings.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Wow... that's powerful stuff. Poor Girl :( Is her name Ra1th? (I'M SORRY EVERYONE< I HAD TO!!) Sorry, that's just someone we all know who loved that character.

lol! what a bastard you are KC.

But @ GChild78, that's crazy man. Did you get after your girl for the spoiler?

[GChild78]

lol! what a bastard you are KC.

But @ GChild78, that's crazy man. Did you get after your girl for the spoiler?

I should have...hell I should have said something after I found out she listened to it without me. But there was fire in her eyes, man...I think I'm gonna let her cool off, then I'll tell her something. But in all fairness, I thought he was dead.

[Osiris]

Nope. Angel is dead.

-Signed-

Dreamcrusher.

If only I could have that as my sig... damn you, Spoiler Rules! Damn yous all to hell!

[IamPaul]

I got home a while ago to a sobbing girlfriend sitting in front of my pc. When I asked what was wrong, she replied "Angel's dead." I just knelt there holding her, stumped, cause we don't know anyone named Angel in real life. After a short pause, she kinda got the hint that I was clueless as to who she meant and went apeshit on me. She started going off about how stupid I am, what a big bitch Pegs is, and some real awful vocabulary about Scratch...

I just finished listening to the chapter...sad stuff indeed.

BUT BURT'S ALIVE!!!!!! WOO!!! :yay:

Just do me a favor KC and don't kill off Saul...he and I (I hope) are all she has left...lol


Now we need a mock intro with Michael Swan. Instead of "we're alive....." it would be "Burt's Alive"

[Privateer]

Nope. Angel is dead.

-Signed-

Dreamcrusher.

I'd call you the David Weber of audio drama, but don't know if anyone would get the reference. :P

And as an aside, I do have to note, as a relative neophyte to the forum, how awesome it is that the writer actually comes down and contributes. Eapecially after he's gone and done something like that. Kudos!

[Osiris]

Now we need a mock intro with Michael Swan. Instead of "we're alive....." it would be "Burt's Alive"

Perhaps, something more generic?

"Some are still alive."

"We're mostly alive."

"What the fuck bbq, Kc that last episode was messed up, bro." I think I would probably shit my pants laughing if I heard Michael Swan deadpan that.

[Leedo2502]

I don't know why everyone is all happy that Angel didn't tell the Mallers that the tower folks went to Ft Irwin. If Angel gave them that info the Mallers would have to travel just shy of 200 miles of Zombie infested, car clogged roads. If the Mallers were that stupid to try They'd loose plenty of people to the desert and dehydration. Then upon arriving at Ft. Irwin the rag tag army of exprisoners armed with whatever they were able to scrounge would have to take on a larger force of well trained highly efficient soldiers from the US Army.

To be sure Angel did right by his freinds by not letting the Mallers know where the Tower guys went since Angel wasn't privy to what awaited them when they got to Irwin. But the reality is that Angel didn't save the remnants of the Tower, he unintentionally saved the lives of the Mallers.

[Nate Eeez]

Would it really matter if the Mallers knew where the Tower folks had gone? I think the Mallers would be foolish to follow. But we know more about what that trip would entail than they do. Would they even know how to get there?

They wouldn't survive the trek though zombie country. Not all of them at least. I could see Scratch surviving, but mostly because she is far less interested in the other Mallers surviving than reaching salvation for herself. So while the Mallers are being mauled to death (see what I did there), she'd sneek away. Though, to complicate matters for her Durai would survive too.

Though, the Mallers seem to have a decent set up somewhere. Hi-tech medical equipment and a professional doctor who not only plays one on the podcast but also in real life. They're doin' pretty well for themselves at the moment.

[Osiris]

I don't know why everyone is all happy that Angel didn't tell the Mallers that the tower folks went to Ft Irwin. If Angel gave them that info the Mallers would have to travel just shy of 200 miles of Zombie infested, car clogged roads. If the Mallers were that stupid to try They'd loose plenty of people to the desert and dehydration. Then upon arriving at Ft. Irwin the rag tag army of exprisoners armed with whatever they were able to scrounge would have to take on a larger force of well trained highly efficient soldiers from the US Army.

To be sure Angel did right by his freinds by not letting the Mallers know where the Tower guys went since Angel wasn't privy to what awaited them when they got to Irwin. But the reality is that Angel didn't save the remnants of the Tower, he unintentionally saved the lives of the Mallers.

He's right. It makes more sense to kill off the antagonist in the middle of the story.

[AdrianHD]

Haha. I enjoy everyone rationalizing a scenario in which Angel is alive. It's like in Lost- "____ could've made it out! They could be alive!" The writers had to reiterate about 4 or 5 times that they were dead. It's like, until you show the character's corpse being eaten by rats, they're still alive :P Also, Kc, feel free to add a scene in which rats eat Angel.

On that note, I listened to the finale again, did you intentionally put the sad death music during the the tower collapse to show Angel's pending death?

[Red Shirt]

Not quite. Though there is a whole show dedicated to overweight chefs on some channel....

Officer Candidate School, I believe.

Yes you got it, I'll come to it in a minute.

There are four routes to becoming an officer in the US Army:

West Point

This is the premier school for training officers for the Army. Four years of arduous physical and mental training. The Officers that West Point turns out do tend to be arrogant, but still generally competent and decent leaders. WP graduates tend to get promoted ahead of their non WP peers. The last I heard it took either a congressional appointment or the recommendation of a Medal of Honor recipient to get in. (I could be wrong)

"Other" various Military Academies

Such as the Virginia Military Institute or Norwich Military Academy. Similar in scope, but no where as exclusive as WP

OCS

To become an officer this route, you either enlist with a college degree or attain one after your enlistment. With a degree in hand, you face a series of interviews and a whole raft of paperwork after which you attend the school part OCS. OCS Officers were enlisted once and generally speaking, usually Sergeants or Staff Sergeants. These tend to be the better officers than most.

ROTC

Reserve Officer Training Corps. This route may be one of the easiest. It is a program that can essentially be taken as an "elective" at any decent college or university that offers it. While participating in the ROTC program at a school, you also serve as a Reservist in a unit and drill on the weekends with them.

I would say it is likely that Lt Angel Tenudo went the ROTC route. Probably even drilling as a cadet with the 223rds rear detachment while they were deployed before he got his "Butter Bar."

There is no way that Angel would have gotten the officer option from a judge with the Army or Jail sentence, even if we still did that sort of thing. Remember Saul's story of how difficult it was for him to get in? That was for enlistment.

[Laura]

Okay, I finally just finished it. I didn't realize it was gonna be like... like this! My reaction: "Oh my God. Oh my God! Oh my GAWD!"

It's a really good thing my roommate wasn't in. Her suspicions that I'm insane would have been confirmed.

[Osiris]

Okay, I finally just finished it. I didn't realize it was gonna be like... like this! My reaction: "Oh my God. Oh my God! Oh my GAWD!"

It's a really good thing my roommate wasn't in. Her suspicions that I'm insane would have been confirmed.

It's how other people know that it is an amazing show. :love:

[sailorangel59]

"I felt a great disturbance in the Podcastverse, as if millions of Ra1ths suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced." Well not really silence we don't even live in the same state and I can still hear him crying.

Anyways I think it was a great way to go out in Angels case. Protecting his friends to the bitter, painful end. What I am curious about is could Angel come back as a zombie. We still don't know if when you die you become a zombie. We know that bites and blood in an open wound does, but is there anything else. We also don't know where Scratch shot him, the head, stomach, crotch. With the information we are given about his condition before getting shot, a gun shot wound to the shoulder could send him into shock and finish him off.

Different subject. I know some people don't like the idea there may be a select few people who are immune. But the way I see it is look at the HIV/AIDS virus studies are coming out showing a small group of people from the Anglo-Saxon area may be immune to the virus. So it is possible some people can't turn, they can still be torn to shreds, but not turn. That may explain why Tanya was left by Randy, he sensed the immunity in her and needed people he could turn, so left her.

All in all I like the wrap up of this chapter, and I am happy to see Burt back.

[NoAzAdams]

So am I the only one who was thinking WTF? Is anyone who they say they are. I mean I got that because Saul didn't get sick it was all about his genes but the Angel thing just freaked me out. I remember how scarface had said in like chapter two or three that she thought she knew him and he was way to anal about avoiding the prison but still. To know now he was hiding out from the family all this time. It is just messed up. As to Bert - dude so knew he was still alive.

[gh0va]

I'm new and this thread is too long to read all the way through, but after listening to this week's episode I felt compelled to register and say: DAMNIT NOOOOOOOOO! Angel was awesome. Gonna miss that guy! :(

[nikvoodoo]

I'm new and this thread is too long to read all the way through, but after listening to this week's episode I felt compelled to register and say: DAMNIT NOOOOOOOOO! Angel was awesome. Gonna miss that guy! :(


Greetings and salutations new comer! You act like 200+ posts is a lot to read!!.......ok well it is. So I understand.

Feel free to stop on into the Introduce yourself (www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?14-Introduce-Yourself!) thread and tell us a bit about yourself!

[Memis]

Ive been bummed about Angel all damn day. Im still holding on to "maybe" he is still alive somehow...I dunno, never thought i would be so invested into a fictional universe. But hope remains here...

[uuhhhuuu]

someone needs to go change the Angel wiki to Deceased. GG NO RE :(

(by the way K.C. said Angel is dead FOR SURE)

[zombeh-kitteh]

Just wait til I get my hands on Scratch! I'll make machaca out of her ass! Carnitas! I'll make dog food out of her and feed her to Lady! Hell, I'll eat her and poop her and stomp on her with a dirty guarache!!!! I'm coming for you cabrona!!!! Sincerely, Victor xoxoxo

LOL! I hearts Victor!

I have a few thoughts...about the virus/epidemic/flesh-changing...in relation to "slow-turning." In the beginning, when the outbreak was "fresh" people merely being sprayed by blood/viscera were automatically turned themselves(Pegs and Riley told us this on Day One). In just a few days/weeks, it seemed that only a bite or a fresh wound that gets infected blood in it (i.e. Tommy, Fernando) is what causes the change. Also, Tanya tells us about the first case (that we know of) of slow turning; that wound that she told Michael was a "burn she got in surgery" was in actuality the bite. Now we know why Randy was dragging her off...the Man in the Pinstripes wanted to have a little "chat" with her(or something to that effect).

So, here's what I'm proposing: The further away from the "hotspot" you are and the amount of time that's passed could possibly increase the time it takes you to turn and effectiveness of the "change," whatever the change is.

Secondly...It really breaks my heart that Angel didn't manage to eek out a true "F*** You" around his breathing tube and/or pull it out himself to end his suffering like a boss. However...I can truly say that I am very sad that he is gone, he's been a facet since the very beginning. Scratch makes another notch on her club of brutality, I believe that she only delivered the final blow out of frustration and not out of a sense of mercy. This woman is incorrigible...Angel's on his deathbed, and all she wants to know is where the Tower people went to...as if it even matters anymore. Why not try to deal with your emotions and problems like a responsible adult and not like a complete psycho? Oh, that's right...you ARE a complete psycho...(that being said, Scratch is still one of my favorite characters on the show because even though you hate her, she's damned interesting.)

Burt...alive...but probably not for much longer. Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled that for the moment he's alive, but it's safe to assume that Scratch will use Lizzie to threaten him, but I think that Burt would rather die than to let anything happen to her...which could lead to the difficult decision of Burt telling them what they want to know. I really can't see that happening, unless Scratch's got her down on her knees playing Russian Roulette until Burt cracks.

Kc, this was a wonderfully epic episode...bloody effin' brilliant.

[VEE]

Ive been bummed about Angel all damn day. Im still holding on to "maybe" he is still alive somehow...I dunno, never thought i would be so invested into a fictional universe. But hope remains here...

You have Hope? But she's supposed to be in Boulder. Is Datu the bloody annoying with you?

[daredevil]

..... SCRATCH..... Angel's last words were great. Can't believe he died the way he did... and the reason why he did. The Tanker? Surely he would have looked before he went down.

[nrtv20]

..... SCRATCH..... Angel's last words were great. Can't believe he died the way he did... and the reason why he did. The Tanker? Surely he would have looked before he went down.

The building was on fire and collapsing; I don’t think he A) had time to look or B) have another option.

Angle was my favorite out of the 3 soldiers to start and my current top 3 isn’t looking good either: Angel, Kalani and Burt.

Tinsel town stiffs… They will be missed!

[sailorangel59]

The building was on fire and collapsing; I don’t think he A) had time to look or B) have another option.

Angle was my favorite out of the 3 soldiers to start and my current top 3 isn’t looking good either: Angle, Kalani and Burt.

Tinsel town stiffs… They will be missed!

Big Bucket of Win.

Now Babble the fuck on.

[ZomNom]

OK. After my initial post of "Wow." I'm ready to respond to the 20+ page thread.

I was never an Angel fan. Mr. "Let's wait it out" just never developed enough for me. Though, now it looks like we're going to get a whole lot more development with his backstory. It's not that I disliked him ... it's just that there are such more interesting characters. Honestly, I thought he died on the tower. And I guess in a way he did. But, now we have a whole lot more Angel to find out about.

Judging from the way things are picking up, I expect my favorite character, Burt, will be killed next. There's not a whole lot left for him to do. Maybe save Lizzy.

Though, if the Mallers have hooked up with the Colony, it's going to be interesting to see where the Saul/Victor storyline goes. We all know Victor can't return to the Colony. Does he camp it with CJ while Saul attempts to infiltrate? Interesting scenario. I think there'd have to be more internal conflict for any sort of rescue attempt to be successful. Like a Durai vs Gatekeeper twist ... but, we've already seen that with Marcus and it'd be a bit of a cop-out if it repeated, but it'd be great Karma for Gatekeeper.

I suspect we'll get more ground zero backstory (like wtf is causing zombies) next. Probably an eventual meet-up of Saul/Victor and the Ft. Irwin crew before a major assault can be planned on the Colony. And that's only IF the mallers truly are at the Colony. They could be anywhere. There hasn't been a lot said about their crew and resources. Obviously a prison would have medical staff. And there's hundreds of medical facilities in the LA area that have the equipment used for Angel in the last episode.

Obviously I think there's a lot more story telling that can come from the Colony.

Hey KC, where's Skittles? I think Victor, Saul and CJ might could use a taste of the rainbow.

[Eviebae]

The main danger with Scratch and Durai knowing where our heros went is that S & D seem to want to rule the world. Durai seems to be playing a massive game of Katamari Damacy with other peoples strongholds. Once they knew, they'd EVENTUALLY make it out to Fort Irwin or Colorado. Of course, that may end up being their downfall.

It all sort of supposes that they'd be able to keep what they take and make it run.

I wonder what changes Scratch will go through now that she's in a position of running and maintaining? She seems like she has a sort of childlike sense of loyalty and family. Having one of those rings is what makes her special--and means she's always right. For instance, Angel must be the one that brought back the body...cuz he's family and all. He is in the in-group and everyone else is in the out-group. Us vs. them except we are all secret kings and queens.

I thought the actress who plays Tanya did a really excellent job. She sounded truly scared and aware of her danger--trying not to lose it. I'm not an actor but it seems like big emotions are hard. That's one of the places that actors seem most likely to let their strings show.

Do you think that the Mallers know about the surviving military? How about Colorado?

[dontkillburt]

Judging from the way things are picking up, I expect my favorite character, Burt, will be killed next. There's not a whole lot left for him to do. Maybe save Lizzy.

Whaaaaa???!!!! Burt next? No effing way that's going to happen. Scratch just woke up a sleeping giant and now she's got a REAL problem.

Next to die? I think it will be Riley, at the hands of a latently turned Tanya, in her cell, and with the candlestick.


Favorite line of episode 3...

"Every time an RPG fires, an angel gets his wings."
- Tardust, 2012

[Jordan531]

When I listened I immediately didn't beleive it was Angel. First he is damaged beyond recognition and Scratch only ID's him because he has the ring in his pocket? And also because we never hear his voice. I know, I know it's been "confirmed". Why is the wiki page for Angel updated with info for 29-3 but he is still listed as "recurring" rather than "deceased"? Did someone just "overlook" the loss of a major character?

[Adventureless_Hero]

When I listened I immediately didn't beleive it was Angel. First he is damaged beyond recognition and Scratch only ID's him because he has the ring in his pocket? And also because we never hear his voice. I know, I know it's been "confirmed". Why is the wiki page for Angel updated with info for 29-3 but he is still listed as "recurring" rather than "deceased"? Did someone just "overlook" the loss of a major character?

His status is deceased but his final appearance is listed as recurring. This could be because we still have more to hear about Angel, possibly through a flashback sequence. Scratch just dropped a bomb on us when she started mentioning Angel's ties to "the family". He's probably the son of a big Mafia don and wanted to break away from that. The fact that he still carries his ring shows that he couldn't completely throw it away. Although Angel is dead, I don't think we're done hearing his voice, hopefully.

[ZomNom]

First he is damaged beyond recognition and Scratch only ID's him because he has the ring in his pocket? And also because we never hear his voice.

That's a good catch. And would make a great plot twist. However, you have to remember that Scratch has seen Angel in person before. Even with all his injuries, I guess you could still make a case for your points. However, there would be no explanation for why a stranger's pulse rate increases, such as it did, when Scratch brought up Angel's father and his ties to "The Family". And why would a stranger hold out on information with a "fuck you" to Scratch when asked where the team was headed?

I'd love for Angel to pop back up alive. But, I think Kc is done with his role ... except to expanded on other characters like Scratch and Durai.

[ZomNom]

Yeah, he's my favorite character too. But, let's face it. He's in the clutches of the Mallers. He's probably still a bit injured from the fall and the only help (as of now) that he has is Lizzy. He's about to go through hell I would imagine. If he survives (even a rescue attempt), I'd be very surprised.

[awkwardalex]

When I listened I immediately didn't beleive it was Angel. First he is damaged beyond recognition and Scratch only ID's him because he has the ring in his pocket? And also because we never hear his voice. I know, I know it's been "confirmed". Why is the wiki page for Angel updated with info for 29-3 but he is still listed as "recurring" rather than "deceased"? Did someone just "overlook" the loss of a major character?

I did that. Two things:

1) we learned from Kalani, Pippin, and Samantha that you can still come back and play a huge part in the story. We still have a huge hole to fill with Angel's past.

more importantly-

2) My internet SUCKS, I was trying to do that and it kept losing the connection. So I went to do the work that I was supposed to be doing and it slipped my mind.

MY BAD.

[awkwardalex]

Nope. Angel is dead.

-Signed-

Dreamcrusher.

KC Dreamcrusher Wayland