Chapter 29-1- Beyond Our Walls Part 1

[nikvoodoo]

It's been two weeks. It's time for an episode.

And there was much rejoicing.

[Hellbringer]

It's been two weeks. It's time for an episode.

And there was much rejoicing.

longest two weeks ever. Can't wait until the new episode drops.

[nikvoodoo]

longest two weeks ever. Can't wait until the new episode drops.

You ain't just whistlin' dixie (as they say).

Hey btw: It's King Datu the Resourceful's birthday today! Not story Datu...actual Datu. So give a happy birthday to Mr. Olegario!

Hopefully Kc didn't give him the gift of a character death this chapter.....

[GingerNacre]

When do we get a new ep today? (checking iTunes now) This will be the first one I can join in discussions on the forum for! :yay:

[nikvoodoo]

When do we get a new ep today? (checking iTunes now) This will be the first one I can join in discussions on the forum for! :yay:

Welcome to the fray!

Episodes are posted by 12pm Eastern Time. As you claim your location is the East Coast...I'll presume that is all the timing info you shall need :)

[myltldmn]

Noon. Perfect. Just enough time to download it before I board a plane from Maine to Laguardia to Memphis and home to San Antonio. Should be able to listen to it a few times. The wait for 10,000 ft is going to kill me.

[UndeadSweeper]

Wait the credit said Britt???

[UndeadSweeper]

Can someone explain the terms? Blood strip, Tapes?

[Kc]

Wait the credit said Britt???
Britt was in this one. Her role: Nurse Britt. She's in the beginning.


Can someone explain the terms? Blood strip, Tapes?
Blood Stripes is a reference to Rank you get only by someone dying and you get their spot/rank out of necessity.

Tapes, and Name Tapes. Your name portion of the uniform.

[UndeadSweeper]

Britt was in this one. Her role: Nurse Britt. She's in the beginning.


Blood Stripes is a reference to Rank you get only by someone dying and you get their spot/rank out of necessity.

Tapes, and Name Tapes. Your name portion of the uniform.

Thanks KC.

Btw, do you have military on the actors crew? Everything sound legit, I thought I would need clearance to listen most of the conversations.

[PamG]

Fan F'ning tastic episode! Love my WA Mondays. Recognized Britt right away, which, for a moment, made my podcast worlds collide... Congratulations Britt!

[Kc]

Thanks KC.

Btw, do you have military on the actors crew? Everything sound legit, I thought I would need clearance to listen most of the conversations.

Burt (Marv) was former Army, like myself. In fact we served with each other. And Victor (Otto) was a Marine (Well, once, always). And Kelly(Tammy) was Air Force.

[UndeadSweeper]

Fan F'ning tastic episode! Love my WA Mondays. Recognized Britt right away, which, for a moment, made my podcast worlds collide... Congratulations Britt!

I hope that Britt doesn't get a big ego like our old friend Greg Miller. It will be hard to fit them in the podcast room. And now Nikvoodoo will want a spot on the show.... Wait maybe he already on it? Maybe know so much.... bc he the PIMP zombie!!!!

[Witch_Doctor]

Bravo!! Does it seem surreal to anyone else that they are walking around in civilazation?

[awkwardalex]

I hope that Britt doesn't get a big ego like our old friend Greg Miller. It will be hard to fit them in the podcast room. And now Nikvoodoo will want a spot on the show.... Wait maybe he already on it? Maybe know so much.... bc he the PIMP zombie!!!!


Ah the plot thickens

[Chogidog]

ARRRRGH...
Soo close to maybe getting the juicy details.. and the Epi ends!

Great episode (again) Kc

[Cabbage Patch]

I loved the detail about the base being under-manned because they were between rotations. When I was stationed at Fort Irwin the base worked in cycles. Units would arrive for training and remain for exactly 28 days. During that time it was all-hands-on-deck for the people assigned to the base and we'd routinely work through weekends. After the training unit left we'd go into a stand-down period, where people got a chance to take a break. The OPFOR unit (currently 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment) would focus on maintenance and normal soldier skills. The training evaluation units would make sure the ranges and support systems work, develop plans, etc.

During the inter-rotation periods people would take time off and there was always at least one 4-day weekend when virtually the entire base closed down. Since a large portion of the soldiers assigned to Fort Irwin lived off base, and virtually all of the civilian workers did, the place was a virtual ghost-town during these periods. Ironic, weapons for thousands without enough bodies to man them!

FYI, Yermo, where Puck earned his blood stripes, is a small town east of Barstow. It's important because the Marine Corps Logistics Base in Yermo is the closest point that the railroad comes to Fort Irwin. That's where equipment and supplies for Fort Irwin are delivered, and there's a large military warehouse center there.

[Cabbage Patch]

I wonder what "pantech" (sp?) is, and why the Colonel was there.

[UndeadSweeper]

I wonder what "pantech" (sp?) is, and why the Colonel was there.

Also how did he get there? Air or land?

[HardKor]

Loved the episode.
I kept feeling a strange whiplash between comfort and foreboding about everything going on at Ft. Irwin. Comfort because it seems safe and secure with some sense of normality but there's just a tiny bit of an ominous feel. Mostly the foreboding was coming from Michael though. He seems to be torn between who he was before and who he has become since the start of the show. Like he's afraid that by going back on active duty he might lose some growth he's undergone. It's really great writing and shows the depth of the characterization.

Also Britt finally makes her cameo on the show! I had to go back and re-listen after I heard her name in the credits. It was a good performance. Congrats!

[Chogidog]

Small technical question...
My iTunes doesn't have new artwork for this episode.
Is it just me, or is there no artwork?

[7oddisdead]

hmm...

the two standouts for me in this one were tayna's comment about "you dont understand" and the fact that the map in Kimmet's office spanned over to montana...of course any thoughts of what could be indicated on that map are pure speculation at this point...but i get the feeling once we start getting more info on whats happening outside of LA and ft irwin..things will begin to take a bleak turn. which is almost a welcome thing...sometimes we need to be reminded all this stuff is bad...

more as it comes to me...

[HardKor]

Small technical question...
My iTunes doesn't have new artwork for this episode.
Is it just me, or is there no artwork?
Yeah I got the same thing, Just "We're Alive" on a black background. So it's not just you.

[awkwardalex]

Yeah I got the same thing, Just "We're Alive" on a black background. So it's not just you.


If i was the questioning type i would say that it is something we are not yet meant to see...

[Chogidog]

If i was the questioning type i would say that it is something we are not yet meant to see...

Like the artwork is.. "Beyond Our Walls" ?

[Chogidog]

I wonder what "pantech" (sp?) is, and why the Colonel was there.

Pantex maybe?
http://www.pantex.com/about/index.htm

[Kc]

Like the artwork is.. "Beyond Our Walls" ?

The artwork is having some delays this week. Nothing to be alarmed by. When we have it we'll re-post it.

[Chogidog]

The artwork is having some delays this week. Nothing to be alarmed by. When we have it we'll re-post it.

I should have gone with.. Beyond Our Walled Garden

[AdrianHD]

Awesome episode. It was the first time we've had a real world kinda atmosphere since the beginning. With the intercom, chatter, etc.

[reaper239]

DAMN YOU KC AND YOUR CLIFF HANGARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!i!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? !!!!!!!!!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pikepaw]

I really liked the POV change in the opening. It might ruin all of our assumptions about the journals though.

Did I hear Michael Swan right? Brittany Brombacher?! Is it digital boxers time?

By the way I am 0 for 3 on recognizing voices. Greg Miller, Bob Bergen as Duncan, Brittany Brombacher. I needed Michael Swan to tell me...

[Osiris]

HOLY SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTT!!!!!!! Britt NEEDS to be a recurring character!!!! IT MUST, BE KC!

[Hellbringer]

FYI, Yermo, where Puck earned his blood stripes, is a small town east of Barstow. It's important because the Marine Corps Logistics Base in Yermo is the closest point that the railroad comes to Fort Irwin. That's where equipment and supplies for Fort Irwin are delivered, and there's a large military warehouse center there.

Did four rotations to Krosnovia or whatever we want to call it these days. Went down to Yermo once or twice, so it'd be interesting to see if that place plays a factor in the story.

Bloodstripes? Definitely not a way I'd want to earn my rank and position, but some things are necessary at dire times.

Ok, the commander talked about "exchange points" being used instead of cash or US dollars. That concerns me because, stepping back a bit and fathoming a bigger picture, it sounds like either Ft. Irwin is in some sort of communications black out from the rest of civilization (and the commander is trying to keep things in order) or things have deteriorated so badly that there is no organized government or infrastructure outside the post.
Having no social security number on file for Michael leads me to believe in either case, because the Army post should be connected to other military installations electronically and be able to pull up his information readily.
As Alice would say, while looking through the glass mind you, "Curiouser and curiouser."

[Litmaster]

Didn't seem to get a whole lot of 'meat' out of this episode to theorize about... more a whole lot of creeping dread...


Tanya's Problem
Hell yeah... Britt the nurse is going to find something wrong with her. Wouldn't surprise me if they find either that she has been bitten and didn't turn (i.e. the immunity thing already much talked about) or that she had been doing some kind of experiments on herself in trying to develop a zombie vaccine that may be incriminating. Either way, it ain't gonna go well for her, and the colonel is going to try and give her the boot.

Question: I wonder if the colonel's insistence on regular medical clearance (seems like at least once a month for everyone) indicates that the Fort has had some trouble with 'slow-turners' in the past? And that Tanya is going to be accused of being just such a slow-turner???


Michael = Antigone?
...this will make Michael's life even harder, as he is going to have to choose between his loyalty to the Law (millitary, rank, structure, rules) and the 'higher law' of loyalty to his adopted family. He likely will choose the latter, making this a rather short stay in Irwin.


Irwin Kicks Out, but Not Kills
The fact that there is such a clamp-down on information until people have been medically cleared is a good sign, actually. This shows that people who are not cleared are banished from the Fort, but not killed outright like in the Colony (remember how Gatekeeper would have those rejected shot in the back?). So that speaks to a greater semblance of humanity, anyway. This colonel may end up being a dick, but he doesn't seem to be a monster like Gatekeeper.

Although... on second thought, wouldn't banishing someone to some overrrun place like Barstow pretty much be the same as killing them???


The 35 Mile Buffer
So I checked and this Yermo is about 35 miles SSW of Ft. Irwin. Since Puck got his 'blood stripes' there, it is safe to say Yermo is probably overrun, like Barstow. So they've got about 35 miles of desert between them and zombies. I was curious about how far the Zeds would migrate if they ran low on chow in Yermo... remember the starving Zed-Heads that swam all the way from (I think) San Clemente Island? I wonder how many incidences there are of wandering Zombs breaching the perimeter...


Mke's Marching Orders?
Anyone else think it a bit ominous as to why Michael was hesitating to sign the papers? Is that simply because he is unwilling to submit to a higher authority, or is there something more sinister afoot at Irwin? I don't see what signing a piece a paper matters anyway, especially in a post-apocalyptic situation like the world of "We're Alive"... I think the Army has much bigger fish to fry than a few recruits leaving post and going AWOL.





By the way, was anyone else glad to hear about the abundance of munitions at Ft. Irwin? Now all we need is a good old mass-zombie assault. I don't know about you, but this podcast would be a whole lot less interesting to listen to if the characters had to fight this shit out with sticks and slingshots... :cool:

[Cabbage Patch]

Ok, the commander talked about "exchange points" being used instead of cash or US dollars. That concerns me because, stepping back a bit and fathoming a bigger picture, it sounds like either Ft. Irwin is in some sort of communications black out from the rest of civilization (and the commander is trying to keep things in order) or things have deteriorated so badly that there is no organized government or infrastructure outside the post.

An "exchange point" system actually makes good sense, and I think it speaks well to the security of the base and how well provisioned it is. The fact that the Post Exchange is open in any form is a good sign, a link to normalcy and a sign that some luxury items are available. That's bound to help troop morale (which is the reason that PXs exist in the first place). And you couldn't use US currency, because there's no way of stopping troops from acquiring more (off dead zombies, out of business during recon missions) and causing crazy inflation.

This is very similar to what Riley did at the Tower with her "store". We never knew how goods were distributed from the store, but there must have been a system or else why have a store.


Having no social security number on file for Michael leads me to believe in either case, because the Army post should be connected to other military installations electronically and be able to pull up his information readily.

Believe it or not, the military is subject to privacy laws just like everybody else. When a soldier transfers in to a unit his data goes onto the local data servers, and a base like Fort Irwin isn't authorized to see anything about soldiers not stationed there. Ordinarily your orders arrive at your new duty station before you do, authorizing them to download your records. When you arrive you hand-carry the rest of your data, which the base gets when you in-process. In other words what we saw here was really close to "situation normal".

[Litmaster]

Nice posts, Cabbage Patch! You bring it, dude!

I'd REP you again, but the damn thing won't let me. You give great insight into Army details.



Quick Theory About Irwin's History

Evidence:
The strong emphasis on medical clearance at Irwin
That their helicopter was recognized upon arrival at Irwin.
The 35 mile isolation buffer from the outbreak
Puck isn't a 'newbie' despite only being in 1 1/2 years
Irwin was between training cycles at outbreak = Few Active Duty Personnel


Theory:

Irwin was probably used as an emergency EVAC site at the time of the outbreak
Much of the base's current personnel are probably made up of civilians who were flown out of LA and nearby locales
Even with the geographic isolation, they must have had an internal zombie outbreak due to some of the evacuees being infected and then turning upon arrival
The internal outbreak was quelled, but they probably lost many people during the mini-disaster
Puck was one of the few original Army guys to survive the outbreak, and so was quickly promoted to positions of responsibility over the incoming civilians
So the colonel (highest ranking left alive) took over with an iron fist and a firm mandate that all Irwin personnel MUST get a physical at least once a month to ensure no further outbreaks happen

[Nitara]

Great episode! I just wish it hadn't ended so soon. :)

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to finding out what's wrong with Tanya. There's obviously something going on that she doesn't want anyone else to know about. As for Michael, I was a little surprised he was hesitant to rejoin the army. Then again, I guess that's what happens when you've grown used to doing things your own way for so long; and then people expect you to go back to the way things were.

[nikvoodoo]

I hope that Britt doesn't get a big ego like our old friend Greg Miller. It will be hard to fit them in the podcast room. And now Nikvoodoo will want a spot on the show.... Wait maybe he already on it? Maybe know so much.... bc he the PIMP zombie!!!!
I say nothing.



Mke's Marching Orders?
Anyone else think it a bit ominous as to why Michael was hesitating to sign the papers? Is that simply because he is unwilling to submit to a higher authority, or is there something more sinister afoot at Irwin? I don't see what signing a piece a paper matters anyway, especially in a post-apocalyptic situation like the world of "We're Alive"... I think the Army has much bigger fish to fry than a few recruits leaving post and going AWOL.

Actually, I'd wager they dont have bigger fish to fry. Especially if he has a unique skill set that isnt currently present. If someone still believes in the structure, Michael is subject to his service and he doesn't have a choice. Well....he does. His choice is to sign the paper, or risk prison time/execution. Yes, Michael could be executed for going AWOL during wartime (at least as I understand the outer extreme of AWOL punishments).

He'd do best to sign that paper...

[Hellbringer]

An "exchange point" system actually makes good sense, and I think it speaks well to the security of the base and how well provisioned it is. The fact that the Post Exchange is open in any form is a good sign, a link to normalcy and a sign that some luxury items are available. That's bound to help troop morale (which is the reason that PXs exist in the first place). And you couldn't use US currency, because there's no way of stopping troops from acquiring more (off dead zombies, out of business during recon missions) and causing crazy inflation.

This is very similar to what Riley did at the Tower with her "store". We never knew how goods were distributed from the store, but there must have been a system or else why have a store.



Believe it or not, the military is subject to privacy laws just like everybody else. When a soldier transfers in to a unit his data goes onto the local data servers, and a base like Fort Irwin isn't authorized to see anything about soldiers not stationed there. Ordinarily your orders arrive at your new duty station before you do, authorizing them to download your records. When you arrive you hand-carry the rest of your data, which the base gets when you in-process. In other words what we saw here was really close to "situation normal".

I offer a counter-counter-point or two to your counter-point. ;) (where's my winking smile? I know I put it in here)

The exchange point system may sound good in the short term, but I think back to my folks and myself while stationed "out there." Some of my guys were at really small outposts, but they had a finance team come out once a month or so and cash out checks or offer cash advances up to a certain amount in order for them to use the local exchange or the local on-site bazaar. The remaining money was still in the system, though, be it cash on hand or stored up in a bank/savings account. However, to me this detail is minor and only a symptom of something bigger.

As for the privacy laws and such, yes, the Privacy Act of 1974, does protect individuals' rights. However, earlier in the episode, before Michael had to sign anything (cliffhanger), the command folks had his ID card. They checked his card to make sure it wasn't a fake; that card has his social security number on it. They had the information needed (his SSN) to verify that he was who he said he was. But they didn't use it that way. He willingly surrendered his card to them for use and that can be construed (am I using the right word here or have I been listening too many people who used that word?) as consent. This is the Army, after all.
Also, there was a 42-series (legal dude/adjutant general/human resource) person who typed up Michael's orders to bring him unto Active Duty. Orders don't get published or drawn up without going through iPERMS or E-MILPO (military administrative systems), systems connected to Human Resources Command or even the Army G-1 (personnel). Besides, that 42-series person would have access to look information on Michael in those databases on the Commander's behalf, especially if Michael was to become a part of that unit.

Just saying this smells a little fishy to me. Like something is rotten in Denmark. I have been wrong plenty of times before, though. I mean, I was dead sure that Bill, of the Apartment, was the man we call Ink... allegedly.

[Cabbage Patch]

...earlier in the episode, before Michael had to sign anything (cliffhanger), the command folks had his ID card. They checked his card to make sure it wasn't a fake; that card has his social security number on it. They had the information needed (his SSN) to verify that he was who he said he was.

Great point about the ID Card having Michael's Social Security Number on it, I totally missed that fact. It is starting to look like Fort Irwin is on its own, without access to the rest of the Army's data or logistics infrastructure.

[Tielurrdee]

Great episode. I've never been military of any form but I've had a lot of friends serve so i can catch on to whats going on from that and duh movies.I really have always dug the military aspect of this story. A big regret was never joining but anyways thanks to you guys who are filling in the gaps for us who don't know all the terminology involving this part of the story. Anyways what was with the line "sniper check" at 14:17 was that simply a glitch? That's what it seemed like it wasn't suppose to be there. So I thought I'd throw that out there. Congrats Brittany on getting your spot on the show I knew there was something happening with you "visiting" la and then the wnd post cast not coming out. KC probably called your ISP and made them shut you down so you weren't tempted to leak anything . I have good feeling for the stay at Irwin but I'm not sure how much faith I have in michael keeping mentally strong. I feel a break down coming on in this chapter or soon. Ok so let me see if anyone follows this thought. At the beginning michael was speaking about everything as it had already happened and looking back on it. We have porgressed way past the point of him being the only narrator. So forever I've wondered from at which point does it go from past to present because he spoke of him self being "27 at the time this all started". So is the end of the whole story him at this point of reflection or could it be sooner then that and will we go from past to present in this chapter. Or was it a seamless transition between chapters when others began to narriate that the point past. Just a thought maybe it doesn't make sense. I'm trying to type this while working tho it's been on my mind for a long time

[nikvoodoo]

I believe (and those better in the know please correct me) sniper checks are when someone does something that would normally catch the attention of a sniper. The offender is performing a sniper check.

I'd imagine calling sniper check would make anyone from the military immediately jump to attention

And the lack of WND has more to do with illness and other circumstances getting in the way.

[Hellbringer]

Great point about the ID Card having Michael's Social Security Number on it, I totally missed that fact. It is starting to look like Fort Irwin is on its own, without access to the rest of the Army's data or logistics infrastructure.

We'll see how far down the rabbit hole this takes us. I wouldn't say I'm hoping we're right, but I do hope we spotted something there.

[7oddisdead]

im thinking litmaster may have struck a good point in his bigger post about ft irwin being evac's recuited.

think back to private carls behaviour when they first arrived. i could totally see him as just a normal dude who has been playing army for a couple months now...looking at things that way could also help explain a lot of the smaller pieces that really dont seem to have any bearing right now. but will(or could) in the future...

also, how about this...IF michael refuses to sign, and knowing that he brought two people fairly shaken up along with him...what would the chances be of them being turned away? puck made reference to that but nothing more...i cant shake the feeling that this will not be all sunshine and daisies...

[Hellbringer]

I believe (and those better in the know please correct me) sniper checks are when someone does sketching that would normally catch the attention of a sniper.

I'd imagine calling sniper check would make anyone from the military immediately jump to attention

A "sniper check" is when a person salutes another person in a combat zone or any area suspected of having an aggressor looking to take out a high ranking member. Usually it's out of fun, but it goes back to a time when young officers insisted on being saluted, even near the front lines of a war, where the presence of an enemy sniper was high, but that young officer wouldn't think about the dangers of being pointed out as official in a leadership position.

Numerous stories and military urban legends abound on said terminology. (I sound like Perceptor there...)

[nikvoodoo]

A "sniper check" is when a person salutes another person in a combat zone or any area suspected of having an aggressor looking to take out a high ranking member. Usually it's out of fun, but it goes back to a time when young officers insisted on being saluted, even near the front lines of a war, where the presence of an enemy sniper was high, but that young officer wouldn't think about the dangers of being pointed out as official in a leadership position.

Numerous stories and military urban legends abound on said terminology. (I sound like Perceptor there...)

Hence why I wanted someone smarter than me to fix my mistake. ;)

[cupcakezombie]

I am wondering if the reason Michael is not wanting to sign is if he is going to ask for some assurances for the rest of the team. If/when he signs the orders, he is technically no longer one of the tower group and as he said he cares about them more then he ever did about the soliders that served under him.
What could signing these orders mean for his relationship with them?

[Tielurrdee]

And the lack of WND has more to do with illness and other circumstances getting in the way.
I saw your blog earlier and completely understand that we all get busy and sick and have hundreds of factors that can take priority away from the extra stuff that fills a normal week. I kind of had a feeling the sniper check line was actually suppose to be there but it happened quick and Michael and Sam didn't react to it or something was odd about how it happened I think I didn't catch the contex correctly. Tho I relistened to all of it where the line is does make sense it was just a quick part.

[werewolf]

who wants to take bets on that chapter 29 is where Michael and the crew are going to A.W.O.L.

[nikvoodoo]

who wants to take bets on that chapter 29 is where Michael and the crew are going to A.W.O.L.

I'd take that bet, but my sponsor sat me down and we got over that feeling.

[Witch_Doctor]

im thinking litmaster may have struck a good point in his bigger post about ft irwin being evac's recuited.

think back to private carls behaviour when they first arrived. i could totally see him as just a normal dude who has been playing army for a couple months now...looking at things that way could also help explain a lot of the smaller pieces that really dont seem to have any bearing right now. but will(or could) in the future...

also, how about this...IF michael refuses to sign, and knowing that he brought two people fairly shaken up along with him...what would the chances be of them being turned away? puck made reference to that but nothing more...i cant shake the feeling that this will not be all sunshine and daisies...

I was racking my brain trying to figure out why Puck referred to others as newbies, given his low rank. I think y'all might have hit the nail on the head.

Facts:
1) Cpl Puck was originally stationed at Fort Irwin before the outbreak (They're calling it an Outbreak now).
2) His name is stitched onto his name tag.
3) The newbies have name tags made of 100 mph tape with their names written on them. This suggests that they are not soldiers who arrived in uniforms.
4) At 12:00 minutes Puck establishes a timeline seperating the newbies' presence at Ft. Irwin and his own. He tell's Michael that some of the nubes have the temporary name tags but Micheal points out that Puck doesn't. Puck replies that he was there before the outbreak. This implies that the nubes came after the outbreak.

One question that I have is, what does Puck mean when he says that he is Prior Active when the Col. assigns him to Michael for training?

[awkwardalex]

Here's a thought i had today.

Now a lot of us our Dead Island players (on pc if you wanna play) but for those who aren't a recurring theme happens to the tourists of Banoi:

Many live in a false sense of hope and reality. Lots of characters you meet are unaware or unconcerned about the danger surrounding them. You have a woman offering a reward for her lost neckalace a guy who needs alchol to curb his hangover, a russian pain in the ass who will do ANYTHING for champane, and a few others *cough* Pshyco Anna *cough*

Now where was I going with this?

Oh yes false sense of security. The Fort Irwin currency piqued my interest as it did Michael's.

Where are they getting any thought that the other bases are safe? If they were then some sense of order may have been able to be restored. What if the head honcho is in denial? Or something i'm tired.

[Cabbage Patch]

One question that I have is, what does Puck mean when he says that he is Prior Active when the Col. assigns him to Michael for training?

There's a long history of people in the active Army looking down on their National Guard and Army Reserve counterparts. There was a time when there might have been some justification to those views, but these days those elements have probably seen as much war-time service as the active duty Army. I think CPL Puck was just venting, something he's quite adept at. Notice how his attitude changed when he realized that Michael had combat experience in the Middle East.

[Witch_Doctor]

Puck sound's depressed about the state of things and hints that things are either really really bad or are about to get really really worse.

1) Warns Micheal that he is about to have a lot bad news dumped on him in his intell briefing. Micheal says he's prepared, Puck responds, "You say that now."
2) Says that he prefers his "foxhole" to knowing about how bad things are.
3) When Datu laments about the trouble he has learning the military accronymns he remarks that it might be necessary.
4) When warned about the Col.'s mood, Puck says getting fired would a step up.

Ominous things are mentioned by or about the Col. too.
1) Asks Puck about his last check up.
2) When he and Micheal are talking about exchange credits, he tells Micheal that he learned early on that people don't just keep working out of duty alone. He sounds like he's reflecting on a difficult time in the past. (How did he regain control?)
3) He returns from Pantex, a nuclear weapons (dis)assembly plant.
4) Map of western US.
5) Office wall full of inventory lists.

Questions
1) Are nukes being planned?
2) Parallels between the Colony and Irwin. Victor = Puck. But Victor warns them away. Puck is like a bad-assed emo. Marcus and Col. K. Micheal finally gets 'Sean's job'.
3) Something horrible is being planned?
4) Puck is part of a planned coup? (Mentions that Datu might not need to learn army speak. So Maybe Datu can't join; there won't be an army for long; Datu and crew gets the boot)
5) Did Tanya bite or scratch Puck? Nurse Britt offers him ice, he declines, someone else says the he will need it. Later, Col. ominously asks about Puck's med checkup.

Prediction:
1) Tanya is discovered to have some sort of zombie exposure and threatened with death or expulsion.
2) Puck is discovered to have Tanya's zombie cooties and his life is in danger too.
3) Micheal and gang escape with Tonya and Victor... oops, I mean Puck.

Micheal as MI. HE SUCKS! Every time someone is about to reveal some important info, he interupts, makes someone mad and they storm off before saying what they were going to say.

[7oddisdead]

Oh wow...if we are to assume pantex is the nuke site...could a nuking of LA be in the future?...hmm sounds ominous...also a likely possibility considering the things we saw/heard

[Osiris]

In response to the nuke theory.

I would think that scenario to be inevitable. Containment by any means necessary has always been the Modus Operandi of 'The Government/Military' in every other zombie film/book so far. It also seems to be the right arc for the overall story line. Now it's a race against the clock to get back to L.A. and find Saul and Victor! Oh wait... we don't know they're alive just yet.

Expect a radio transmission from Saul or Victor that gives Michael and the rest of the Tower (sorry, former Tower) residents a reason to race back to L.A. It'll definitely give either this season or the final season a hell of a lot of tension. It's also the perfect out for KC to kill everyone in the last chapter of the series. All that needs to happen is Michael leaves the journals behind at the base as their group's contribution to the intelligence effort. Either that or the format simply switches to present-tense for the series finale.

[Osiris]

Shit, I don't think I'm ever going to write a short enough post for Britt to read on air. :(

[Litmaster]

I was racking my brain trying to figure out why Puck referred to others as newbies, given his low rank. I think y'all might have hit the nail on the head.

One question that I have is, what does Puck mean when he says that he is Prior Active when the Col. assigns him to Michael for training?


There's a long history of people in the active Army looking down on their National Guard and Army Reserve counterparts. There was a time when there might have been some justification to those views, but these days those elements have probably seen as much war-time service as the active duty Army. I think CPL Puck was just venting, something he's quite adept at. Notice how his attitude changed when he realized that Michael had combat experience in the Middle East.

That's part of it, CP, but I think the main reason is that we will find out that most of the 'soldiers' at the base are just newly drafted civilians who were former evacuees from all over Southern LA. That explains the 100mph tape and the fact that Michael is promoted to HQ so damn fast (given that he's a real sgt).




Quick Theory About Irwin's History

Evidence:
The strong emphasis on medical clearance at Irwin
That their helicopter was recognized upon arrival at Irwin.
The 35 mile isolation buffer from the outbreak
Puck isn't a 'newbie' despite only being in 1 1/2 years
Irwin was between training cycles at outbreak = Few Active Duty Personnel


Theory:

Irwin was probably used as an emergency EVAC site at the time of the outbreak
Much of the base's current personnel are probably made up of civilians who were flown out of LA and nearby locales
Even with the geographic isolation, they must have had an internal zombie outbreak due to some of the evacuees being infected and then turning upon arrival
The internal outbreak was quelled, but they probably lost many people during the mini-disaster
Puck was one of the few original Army guys to survive the outbreak, and so was quickly promoted to positions of responsibility over the incoming civilians
So the colonel (highest ranking left alive) took over with an iron fist and a firm mandate that all Irwin personnel MUST get a physical at least once a month to ensure no further outbreaks happen



Yeah, so the more I think about this one, the more it makes sense. Here's a few more thoughts on what must have happened:

1. The Fort is made up primarily of civilians who were 'drafted' under Kimmet's command soon after being evacuated from nearby locales. So most of them probably don't know shit, don't follow commands really well, and Kimmet has had a hard time just avoiding a mutiny. So he's not going to be open to any kind of dissent...

2. So there must still be some helicopter pilots on the fort (how did the colonel get to Pantex...walk?!)

3. There must have been an early outbreak due to some of the evacuees being infected and slow-turned, nearly wiping out the place...

4. ... which explains the Texas barriers and gun towers at the barracks! After quelling the outbreak, Kimmet must have ordered that the barracks be set up as an internal fortress to detain any newcomers, where they would stay in isolation and under guard for at least a week to see if they turned. Then they would need a thorough check-up before being allowed into the base proper. This is how the fort has been able to contain any further outbreaks.

5. And that also explains all the leftover junk (guitars, clothes) at the barracks, which must have been left by people who were not medically cleared and were exiled from the fort. Still wondering about why Puck told them to stay off the 2nd and 3rd floors of that place (at 5:23 of 26-2)... is there signs of some violence at the barracks where somebody turned and killed everyone inside, but it was contained within the barracks walls?



Oh wow...if we are to assume pantex is the nuke site...could a nuking of LA be in the future?...hmm sounds ominous...also a likely possibility considering the things we saw/heard

This might be what the colonel is thinking, but I don't think it will go down that way. One more thing:



The Title: Beyond Our Walls
So this chapter is where we will get a lot more information on the larger scope of the outbreak going on 'beyond out walls'--which will mean the walls at Irwin, and probably also the walls over at Dunbar Tower with C.J. and the gang (BTW, can we now call it Dunbar Tower instead of 'The Other Tower' to finally avoid confusing it with the original tower?). At any rate, I predict that Kimmet is going to tell Michael about how widespread the disaster is, how he is phone contact with a few isolated compounds around the western U.S. that managed to avoid being overrun, how he is making plans on assembling forces to defeat the 'enemy' (zombies), and how nukes may be involved. We will also get insight that the colonel knows about the disaster being a bioterrorist attack that has wiped out nearly the entire globe, and that the nearest GZ is somewhere in Los Angeles.


Prediction: After Tanya is found with Z-Cooties, the colonel is going to want to banish her. She will protest, claiming that she has made real headway into developing a zombie vaccine. Kimmet won't believe her, Micheal will defend her, and somehow this will end up in Michael convincing Kimmet to allow him and a small team to go back to LA on a recon mission to Ground Zero to get more information on the source of the outbreak, or something. The other way it could go is for Kimmet to lose command, the shit hitting the fan, and our heroes escaping mass-chaos in a hurried exodus back to LA. Not sure which yet.



And finally, I think the info CJ has will be more juicy and detailed than the 'big picture' stuff the colonel has gleaned... Our groups are going to have lots to talk about if they ever get back together...

[Blood & Ice Cream]

2. So there must still be some helicopter pilots on the fort (how did the colonel get to Pantex...walk?!)

fort irwin also has an army airfield - so he may of used a plane

[bradarro11]

you guys have now made this episode a lot better from this thread alone. listening to the episode itself didnt give up a lot but your speculation has more than made up for that... bring on some answers soon please!

[Nitara]

Oh wow...if we are to assume pantex is the nuke site...could a nuking of LA be in the future?...hmm sounds ominous...also a likely possibility considering the things we saw/heard

I can certainly understand why the army would want to try nuking LA. I think the real question is, would it actually work? I'm sure the initial blast would take out a good portion of the zombie population. Even so, I'm think that some will survive. And if Inglewood (sp?) is where this whole mess started, I doubt that radiation will be a problem for whatever's left over.

[7oddisdead]

the entire set up and the few things mentioned just give me shades of a certain other story...i dont really think it will happen at all. but the discussion that would be had around the idea of nuking the larger cities will certainly help to push the story forward. im sure we will learn at the very least shades of what kimmet and his men know soon enough, but i get the feeling when michael starts talking..many will start listening.

and am i the first to mention in the thread the talk right before michael entered h.q. about a downed squad? by my count thats two groups mentioned attacked that suffered some type of losses.(pucks earning his blood stripes. at least one soldier lost..and the downed squad mentioned later) if we are to go by the accounts of puck, and the bits that people such as cabbage have brought up...just how many legit soldiers are left?

[VEE]

I’ve listened to the entire series and had no idea that there was a forum and that there was so much discussion going on!

The feeling I got from Michael hesitating to sign the orders was about the change in his own circumstances, having essentially been the leader of his group he would now return to taking orders from others and it would require a shift in his loyalties, potentially even having to banish one of his own group.

The other theories here are very interesting though, it’s the sort of detail that wouldn’t normally cross my mind and adds to the whole listening experience I think.

Anyway, Hi.

[reaper239]

I’ve listened to the entire series and had no idea that there was a forum and that there was so much discussion going on!

The feeling I got from Michael hesitating to sign the orders was about the change in his own circumstances, having essentially been the leader of his group he would now return to taking orders from others and it would require a shift in his loyalties, potentially even having to banish one of his own group.

The other theories here are very interesting though, it’s the sort of detail that wouldn’t normally cross my mind and adds to the whole listening experience I think.

Anyway, Hi.

welcome to the forums. did you hear the one about the three holes in the ground?


















well, well, well.

[VEE]

did you hear the one about the three holes in the ground?


well, well, well.

Lord have mercy on us all.


Hi.

[7oddisdead]

Lord have mercy on us all.


Hi.

firstly...welcome to the forums. it really does make the overall experience that much better!

second...the jokes of certain members are not representitive of the rest of the forum...

heh..no hate reaper..jus saying:D

[nikvoodoo]

firstly...welcome to the forums. it really does make the overall experience that much better!

second...the jokes of certain members are not representitive of the rest of the forum...

heh..no hate reaper..jus saying:D

Actually....I'd say that was a perfect representation of the forum....

[VEE]

Saul seems to be immune to whatever caused the outbreak.

Saul is the son of Tanya? (Did I remember that right?)

Tanya administered medication to Saul prior to his discovery of the immunity

There’s a connection there somewhere.

Also - "Doctor doctor, I'm frightened of lapels.
"Ah, yes. You've got cholera."

[Hellbringer]

There's a long history of people in the active Army looking down on their National Guard and Army Reserve counterparts. There was a time when there might have been some justification to those views, but these days those elements have probably seen as much war-time service as the active duty Army. I think CPL Puck was just venting, something he's quite adept at. Notice how his attitude changed when he realized that Michael had combat experience in the Middle East.

I got ya, CB! :) There was a time (pre-9/11) when the National Guard and Reserves got the hand-me-down equipment from the Active Services, and got less training time and opportunities than compared to the Active Duty brethren. I remember seeing a lot of Cold War era M60 tanks and M113A1/A2 APCs in National Guard motor pools when the regular guys had the M1A1 tanks and either M2A2 IFVs or M113A3 APCs. But an increased operations tempo on all forces brings up the readiness level of each component service.
Funny little story. I remember a time in Hattiesburg when we were helping out the Mississippi National Guard with their annual vehicle qualifications, and and Infantry Fighting Vehicle crew shot all of their qualification 25mm ammunition on the first target. Don't know if they got jumpy or forgot to release the trigger but we weren't too thrilled with the prospect of working on that gun afterwards. Fortunately, we didn't have to.

Having or not having combat experience is still a factor in a lot of people's eyes these days. Some people gather that if you've been in for a bit, but you haven't gone out to "the sandbox," you'd hiding something or you're hiding from something.

[Adventureless_Hero]

That was a tasty episode. The moment they decided to call Michael back into active duty I started kicking myself (figuratively, so quit trying to picture it). It seems like the obvious thing to happen to anyone with any military experience returning to a military base during a time of war or extreme crisis. I have to admit though, that I am a bit in denial of it all. I feel like Michael is being torn away from the group. The puppet who learned to be a real boy, is now at risk of becoming a puppet once more. *sad face w/tear*

When Tanya shouted, "You don't understand!" I immediately got the impression that she is expecting them to find something wrong with her, something that will cause alarm if not explained properly. My bet is, she has traces of the virus in her blood but has not become it's victim. Perhaps she is a host but immune? Nurse Brittney, keep your gloves on and be careful when administering drugs via syringe.

I'm very curious to see what the commander dude has to tell Michael. If I'm not mistaken (I only listened to the episode once so far) didn't he say something along the lines of, it's time you learned what was going on? Though I think Michael is going to refuse the position before he gets any information. He'll likely compare the situation to what happened at the Colony.

Anywho, I am too busy at work to do any great speculatin' so I'm going to sit back and see what errrvybuddy else has to say. :D

[Cabbage Patch]

fort irwin also has an army airfield - so he may of used a plane

The Fort Irwin Army Airfield is a bit of a misnomer. It's actually a dry lake bed that the Army has graded and marked runways on. It can accommodate very large aircraft, I've seen C-130s fly in and out and I'm pretty sure it can handle C-17s. But there are no airfield support facilities there, no tower, no fuel storage, no maintenance buildings, etc. The airfield is used for training purposes only, so when a training unit needs it they have to bring in all the support equipment as well. And in the Fall the lake bed refills with water any time it rains.

There is a paved heliport on the base, near the Weed Army Hospital, where the Medevac helicopters are based. All of Fort Irwin's other aviation assets, including the OPFOR and base support helicopters and a few fixed wing aircraft, are based 40 miles away at the civilian airport in Barstow. Which is over run.

[Cabbage Patch]

Oh wow...if we are to assume pantex is the nuke site...could a nuking of LA be in the future?...hmm sounds ominous...also a likely possibility considering the things we saw/heard

I wonder if KC really means the Pantex nuclear disassembly facility, or if it's something different and the similar name is just a coincidence.

The entire region around Fort Irwin is full of major military installations, the Marine Base at 29 Palms, the Naval Weapons Center at China Lake, Edwards Air Force Base and Nellis Air Force Base cover most of the Mojave Desert between them. I expect Nellis AFB would be over-run, since it's located in the heart of the Las Vegas metropolitan area, but the others are almost as isolated as Fort Irwin. And let's not forget Nellis AFB's famous satellite installation, Area 51.

I wonder if Pantex might not be an acronym for some command center located deeper in the desert, possibly at or near Area 51. That's a trip that could be made easily by a helicopter. Or a ground convoy could drive there across the desert, requiring a day or two for travel each way, which could account for COL Kimmet being out-of-communication for so long.

[fridginators]

I would really like this to work out differently to the Colony. It's the military, and Michael's always been bad at taking orders, so there's naturally some rough and tumble between him and the Brass. I know it's not going to be perfect, but I hope that the Colonel is more of an anti-hero or just a bit weird than an actual villain.

[UndeadSweeper]

I would really like this to work out differently to the Colony. It's the military, and Michael's always been bad at taking orders, so there's naturally some rough and tumble between him and the Brass. I know it's not going to be perfect, but I hope that the Colonel is more of an anti-hero or just a bit weird than an actual villain.

I don't why everyone is down on the Colonel? We have seen what happen with at the tower, the other tower, the Colony and the Mall. We have watch the plus and minus of their command and followers. So right now I just wait and see on the fort. They seem to be following a smart layout plan.

Check out the incoming, similar to the colony. Find out information about those who may be useful to the service and make sure they are who they said they are, think back Pippen and Kalini. Routine check of personal to see if they are infected or quarantines those who could be a danger to other, remember Saul at the tower and Micheal and the crew at the colony. Give people incentive to work, help and increase moral , remember the party at the tower and CJ issue at the other tower. Controlling information and leaks, remember Kalini and a way Bill. Also strict order that need to be follow, remember Ducan not paying attention to his post at the other tower.

Honesty I don't see any other way to run things better.

[UndeadSweeper]

Another note: Compare the colony to Fort <br />
<br />
Puck is very open about the fort, while Vick need to keep thing on the down low. <br />
<br />
The soldiers could have easy knock out Tanya with the butt of a gun or...

[Hellbringer]

I'm not calling the Colonel (is he a light or a bird?) a Richard Cranium by any means, but he seems a little more cautious than normal. Of course, a zombie apocalypse (amazing how I can NOW spell that word without any dictionary help) is not normal by any stretch of the means.
I do wonder, though, if he was a squadron commander, garrison commander, regiment commander, chief of staff, S-3, or what not before he became the overall commander? And also, what's his branch?
These aren't for meant for me to be a "spotlight ranger" on KC or anyone out there; I'm just curious about his background because I'm always curious about stuff like that. (Doesn't help that I did a LOT of background research for this month long class I took, so I'm still stuck in inquisitive mode right now.)

[Cabbage Patch]

I'm not calling the Colonel (is he a light or a bird?)

I'm pretty sure this is a Full-Bird Colonel. The character page lists him as COL Kimmet and KC put that page up.

[Hellbringer]

I'm pretty sure this is a Full-Bird Colonel. The character page lists him as COL Kimmet and KC put that page up.

Thanks, Cabbage Patch. I should've known to check the wiki page.

[Witch_Doctor]

I'm very curious to see what the commander dude has to tell Michael. If I'm not mistaken (I only listened to the episode once so far) didn't he say something along the lines of, it's time you learned what was going on? Though I think Michael is going to refuse the position before he gets any information.

Of course Michael is going to say or do something that will prevent him from learning what's going on. That's what he ALWAYS do. Someone is about to tell him something... He interupts by saying something rude... other person gets fed up and walks away.

Col. Kimmet "Sgt. Cross, this entire zombie apocalypse started when...."
Michael interupts "HEY!! Don't call them zombies!!!"
Col. Kimmet "At ease Cross! I warned you about disrespecting authority! Shultz, get in here! Escort Sgt. Cross to the kooler!"
Sgt. Shultz "Jawohl, Herr Kommandant!"

[uuhhhuuu]

I HAVE A THEORY!! (so proud of myself lol)i think the colonel will DIE!! dun dun dun!! not sure how but it would fit the story great. i dont know how many soldiers are at the base, or even there ranks, but if the colonel dies some else can take over. maybe SGT Cross? :) OR MAYBE even a certain Lieutenant!! (is Angel a1st or 2nd lieutenant?) :D

[uuhhhuuu]

I HAVE A THEORY!! (so proud of myself lol)i think the colonel will DIE!! dun dun dun!! not sure how but it would fit the story great. i dont know how many soldiers are at the base, or even there ranks, but if the colonel dies some else can take over. maybe SGT Cross? :) OR MAYBE even a certain Lieutenant!! (is Angel a1st or 2nd lieutenant?) :D

never mind!! lol saw the wiki about Angel's rank.

[Cabbage Patch]

What do you think will happen to Pegs? Given the under-strength appearance of Fort Irwin there can't be many helicopter pilots on the base, possibly not enough to man the birds they have. Pegs has already demonstrated her ability to fly the Pelican/Jolly Green Giant and it's unlikely anyone else on the base has ever flown one.

Can you imagine Pegs getting drafted and given a warrant officer's rank (most Army pilots are warrant officers). She'd outrank Michael, which could be fun. Datu and Kelly could be assigned to her flight crew, maybe even Riley if she's ever released from the hospital. It would be a better use of personnel than leaving them to rot in barracks, plus it could help set the stage for the inevitable trip back to LA.

[clem131]

Of course Michael is going to say or do something that will prevent him from learning what's going on. That's what he ALWAYS do. Someone is about to tell him something... He interupts by saying something rude... other person gets fed up and walks away.

I have a fear this is going to happen. I don't like it, not because of us not getting to know more about the facts, but because the whole identity crisis seemed kinda rushed in to me. They spent days preparing to go to Irwin. They came to Irwin, a military base, hoping to find the military to be protected and safer than in the city. Michael is a soldier. They spent days doing nothing. What else did he expect? Not once it occurred to Michael "Hey, I'm a soldier in a military base, I wonder what might happen now, duh, do you think they will put me on duty again?". Therefore him not signing the papers seems to me just a bit too easy way to get a cliffhanger at the end of this episode too.
Did anyone notice how Puck was narrating? That's interesting, we have always considered the narration as someone reading one of the daily logs. Does that mean that eventually he will leave the army and join our group of survivors somewhere else, starting his own diary?

[GeneTwo]

About the maps and inventory reports in the Col office, he's just being practical. The intel has more to do with supplies than anything else. Even if Fort Irwin is stocked to the brim you still got to know where to get more fuel, food, weapons, and other supplies.

I don't like the nuke option. It just doesn't feel like something a sane military man would do. That is if the Col is sane. Anyway it just seems like using nukes is like boxing yourselves in.

The bad news. Unless Fort Irwin is being attacked regularly by super zombies, we probably already know what the bad news is. All major US cities lost. No contact with the government. Other bases under siege or lost contact. Michael probably knows more about the zombies than the folks at Fort Irwin. Well, that is unless they have proof that the zombies is a terrorist plot or have a haze maker machine.

Finally, Tanya is freaking out because the military will find that she has bite scars. Not from humans but from animals. She was a vet after all. The scars might have gotten her almost killed at the Colony and she may believe that it may get her killed at the base.

[Litmaster]

All of Fort Irwin's other aviation assets, including the OPFOR and base support helicopters and a few fixed wing aircraft, are based 40 miles away at the civilian airport in Barstow. Which is over run.

Ah, shit! Really? Damn, there goes my dream of a mass-Apache assault on the Colony!!! :mad:



Col. Kimmet "Sgt. Cross, this entire zombie apocalypse started when...."
Michael interupts "HEY!! Don't call them zombies!!!"
Col. Kimmet "At ease Cross! I warned you about disrespecting authority! Shultz, get in here! Escort Sgt. Cross to the kooler!"
Sgt. Shultz "Jawohl, Herr Kommandant!"

Ha! Now that's just funny... :D


I don't like it, not because of us not getting to know more about the facts, but because the whole identity crisis seemed kinda rushed in to me [...] Therefore him not signing the papers seems to me just a bit too easy way to get a cliffhanger at the end of this episode too.

I'm thinking that Kc probably ended the episode the way that he did so as to illustrate Michael's identity crisis, the whole inner conflict he is feeling between his old loyalty to to duty and his new loyalty to his adopted family (that was the Michael = Antigone thing I mentioned back HERE (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3160-Chapter-29-1-Beyond-Our-Walls-Part-1&p=38972&viewfull=1#post38972)).

I think he will sign, but the fact that he hesitates shows his conflicted loyalties.... which are about to get even more conflicted once Nurse Britt finds those big ol' teeth marks on Tanya's backside...

[clem131]

I'm thinking that Kc probably ended the episode the way that he did so as to illustrate Michael's identity crisis, the whole inner conflict he is feeling between his old loyalty to to duty and his new loyalty to his adopted family (that was the Michael = Antigone thing I mentioned back HERE (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3160-Chapter-29-1-Beyond-Our-Walls-Part-1&p=38972&viewfull=1#post38972)).

I think he will sign, but the fact that he hesitates shows his conflicted loyalties.... which are about to get even more conflicted once Nurse Britt finds those big ol' teeth marks on Tanya's backside...
You are right, I hope he will sign, and I guess there was no better way to introduce Michael's identity crisis, still it felt a bit sudden to me.
BTW, sometimes I just point out odd things because it feels repetitive to say how the rest of the episodes is just awesome.

[zombie19]

What do you think will happen to Pegs? Given the under-strength appearance of Fort Irwin there can't be many helicopter pilots on the base, possibly not enough to man the birds they have. Pegs has already demonstrated her ability to fly the Pelican/Jolly Green Giant and it's unlikely anyone else on the base has ever flown one.

Can you imagine Pegs getting drafted and given a warrant officer's rank (most Army pilots are warrant officers). She'd outrank Michael, which could be fun. Datu and Kelly could be assigned to her flight crew, maybe even Riley if she's ever released from the hospital. It would be a better use of personnel than leaving them to rot in barracks, plus it could help set the stage for the inevitable trip back to LA.

I was thinking the same thing. They can't have many pilots with the rotation of the soldiers. However, when they first arrived at the base someone told Pegs to shut off the chopper to save gas. This kinda gives me the impression that they are currently using a type of air transport. Not necessarily a chopper.

[UndeadSweeper]

I have a fear this is going to happen. I don't like it, not because of us not getting to know more about the facts, but because the whole identity crisis seemed kinda rushed in to me. They spent days preparing to go to Irwin. They came to Irwin, a military base, hoping to find the military to be protected and safer than in the city. Michael is a soldier. They spent days doing nothing. What else did he expect? Not once it occurred to Michael "Hey, I'm a soldier in a military base, I wonder what might happen now, duh, do you think they will put me on duty again?". Therefore him not signing the papers seems to me just a bit too easy way to get a cliffhanger at the end of this episode too.
Did anyone notice how Puck was narrating? That's interesting, we have always considered the narration as someone reading one of the daily logs. Does that mean that eventually he will leave the army and join our group of survivors somewhere else, starting his own diary?

Since Micheal is his superior commander, then was probably told by him to keep one.

[IBMguy]

Burt (Marv) was former Army, like myself. In fact we served with each other. And Victor (Otto) was a Marine (Well, once, always). And Kelly(Tammy) was Air Force.

Love this fact, being medically retired Air Force especially nice to see Tammy as prior AF.

[HardKor]

Did anyone notice how Puck was narrating? That's interesting, we have always considered the narration as someone reading one of the daily logs. Does that mean that eventually he will leave the army and join our group of survivors somewhere else, starting his own diary?

Well Puck has probably been keeping a log from the beginning. At the very least just a list of events to tell is superiors, which is what his narration sounded like. My guess is that since Puck was assigned to work under Michael, that means Michael will have access to all the logs and anything else with information to help him do his job.

[jgormally]

It sounds like there are definitely military guys on the writing team; a lot of the dialogue sounds legit.
The only thing that really felt wrong was when the corporal (I can't recall his name right now) pronounced "pog" to rhyme with "log." It has a long "o" sound, like "open" or "bone."

(I was a pog myself. Nothing wrong with that! :cool:)

[zombie19]

I have a fear this is going to happen. I don't like it, not because of us not getting to know more about the facts, but because the whole identity crisis seemed kinda rushed in to me. They spent days preparing to go to Irwin. They came to Irwin, a military base, hoping to find the military to be protected and safer than in the city. Michael is a soldier. They spent days doing nothing. What else did he expect? Not once it occurred to Michael "Hey, I'm a soldier in a military base, I wonder what might happen now, duh, do you think they will put me on duty again?". Therefore him not signing the papers seems to me just a bit too easy way to get a cliffhanger at the end of this episode too.
Did anyone notice how Puck was narrating? That's interesting, we have always considered the narration as someone reading one of the daily logs. Does that mean that eventually he will leave the army and join our group of survivors somewhere else, starting his own diary?

I think that's a def. possibility. Puck could end up leaving with Michael and the gang. Since Puck was injured when bringing in Tanya, he will be quarantined when and if she is. I think they are going to be at the camp for at least a week. Time to figure out that Tanya in immune to becoming a zombie and time to run a bunch of tests on her. The tests would be routine all the way up to bringing in a zombie to bite her. I think when Michael gets word of this, he will plan the break out including Puck. Which he would have grown to like before they quarantine him. And it will be a chopper escape, of course.

[Cabbage Patch]

Here's this Chapter's Cover Art:
1818

Some observations:
• The plane lifting off is pretty clearly a C-130, which is not something you would normally find at Fort Irwin.
• The terrain has a very "Mojave Desert Dry Lake Bed" feel to it. It could be the fabled Fort Irwin Army Air Field, or any dozens of dry lake beds around the region.
• The man who can be seen close up is wearing camos, though they look more like the old BDU pattern than the newer ACU style.
• If you look closely at the little rise on the right side of the image you can make out three human-looking silhouettes. There's no way to tell if they're humans, or biters.
• If you look even more closely at the dust swirl above the three silhouettes you can make out a very large human face in the dust swirls. At least that's what I see, and no I haven't been drinking (much).

[Witch_Doctor]

Here's this Chapter's Cover Art:
1818

Some observations:
• The plane lifting off is pretty clearly a C-130, which is not something you would normally find at Fort Irwin.
• The terrain has a very "Mojave Desert Dry Lake Bed" feel to it. It could be the fabled Fort Irwin Army Air Field, or any dozens of dry lake beds around the region.
• The man who can be seen close up is wearing camos, though they look more like the old BDU pattern than the newer ACU style.
• If you look closely at the little rise on the right side of the image you can make out three human-looking silhouettes. There's no way to tell if they're humans, or biters.
• If you look even more closely at the dust swirl above the three silhouettes you can make out a very large human face in the dust swirls. At least that's what I see, and no I haven't been drinking (much).


Quick thoughts

I think I can make out the image of four human silhouettes. One the the left is a little obscured by the dust.
I'm not so sure about the large human face in the dust. The only face-like image that I see there looks sort of like Edvard Munch's 'The Scream'.
Look at the image on the Back of the soldier, just under the 'A' in 'Alive'. Look a little like the symbol for radiation, huh? I must be reaching.

[buzzbros2002]

What do you think will happen to Pegs? Given the under-strength appearance of Fort Irwin there can't be many helicopter pilots on the base, possibly not enough to man the birds they have. Pegs has already demonstrated her ability to fly the Pelican/Jolly Green Giant and it's unlikely anyone else on the base has ever flown one.

Can you imagine Pegs getting drafted and given a warrant officer's rank (most Army pilots are warrant officers). She'd outrank Michael, which could be fun. Datu and Kelly could be assigned to her flight crew, maybe even Riley if she's ever released from the hospital. It would be a better use of personnel than leaving them to rot in barracks, plus it could help set the stage for the inevitable trip back to LA.

After the initial chuckles, I realized that while that may be the case, she probably wouldn't be able to outrank Michael since he has much more experience. Then again, you never know.


Finally, Tanya is freaking out because the military will find that she has bite scars. Not from humans but from animals. She was a vet after all. The scars might have gotten her almost killed at the Colony and she may believe that it may get her killed at the base.

I think this is potentially one of the most logical things I've read all day. Kudos to you.

[Cabbage Patch]

I think making Pegs a warrant officer would be fun. Even more fun, if the nurse that Britt played in this episode is Army then she's an officer, which means that she outranks Michael! Britt should keep that in mind the next time she has Jim Gleason in the hot seat.

[7oddisdead]

I see the face in the clouds...but my brain is geared toward things like that...very interesting artwork for sure..im liking the majority of the thoughts in the last few posts

[Hellbringer]

I think making Pegs a warrant officer would be fun.

Her nickname will be "Spot."

[trubkir]

I was listening to this episode again and a sudden question came up. With all the paper this base is using won't they soon run out? What about printer supplies? Maybe one of the military guys can answer these questions. If Ft Irwin is anything like my office then if the paper runs out or the color laser printer runs out of toner that will be a bigger emergency than biters.

[IBMguy]

- Correct on the C-130, wonder if it's the passenger or fully loaded version?
- I dont see the face one bit, although I was horrible at the 3D image posters that you stare at
- The "radiation" symbol looks to be part of his backpack, my guess it's Michael.

[GeneTwo]

Fort Irwin gets over run. Survivors have to get on the C-130 to escape. Everyone decides LA is a good place to go because some how they only have enough fuel to go to LA, weird right. In LA Michael finds Saul, they high five, and decide that the prison is a good place to live and why did they never think of that idea before.

[EVABLACKX]

Great episode!
Really like Kc's military detail. Us soldiers really like it.
Can't wait for the next episode :mad:

[Chogidog]

When I look at the cover art, I see the 3 figures off to the right. Two taller and 1 shorter. Victor, Saul and CJ?
I also think that the large 'light' that the C-130 is flying towards looks like a white fireball with a yellow 'stalk' underneath. It's very low to be the sun.
There's also a darker/lighter ring above the, presumably Michael, figure on the left.
Combined with the Pantex mention and the radiation symbol on the back of the backpack he's wearing, maybe it's a nuke going off?

[Litmaster]

You know, with all the new information that the story is about to dump on us (and here I mean all the background intel from CJ about all her gang has learned and has been doing, as well as all the intel that Kimmet and the Army dudes have gleaned), I am curious about how Kc is going to deal with this....

... does this mean we are going to have an entire episode or two where it's just Michael and Kimmet talking in HQ?

[Adventureless_Hero]

Hmmm, I forget, but does Chinwe have any radio equipment? Is she way to far away from Ft. Irwin to contact them in any way? Maybe after Michael provides what little information he has regarding L.A., the brass at Ft. Irwin decides it's time to pack up and head out. Just then, they get a radio message from Saul, Victor and CJ. It's garbled and they can't respond, but at least now, Michael knows that Saul and them are alive. He can't go with the rest of Ft. Irwin to whatever safe haven they have in Montana. He stays behind and a great number of his team stay behind with him. As the plane takes off, he sees three figures walking off the field. Corporal Puck, and two others decided they had enough of the Colonel's army. They join Sergeant Michael Cross and his rag-tag band of ass kickers.

[reaper239]

You know, with all the new information that the story is about to dump on us (and here I mean all the background intel from CJ about all her gang has learned and has been doing, as well as all the intel that Kimmet and the Army dudes have gleaned), I am curious about how Kc is going to deal with this....

... does this mean we are going to have an entire episode or two where it's just Michael and Kimmet talking in HQ?

it's possible i imagine, but somehow that doesn't seem like KCs style. i think more likely we'll experience it through a flashback so that it won't be so dry.

[nikvoodoo]

it's possible i imagine, but somehow that doesn't seem like KCs style. i think more likely we'll experience it through a flashback so that it won't be so dry.

Flashbacks seem to be reserved for those with first hand accounts. If the info is coming from across the country/world I think we may be in line for a dry info dump with background sound to reinforce the happenings.

[reaper239]

Flashbacks seem to be reserved for those with first hand accounts. If the info is coming from across the country/world I think we may be in line for a dry info dump with background sound to reinforce the happenings.

but there was a lot of info hinted at that would be directly related to the base itself, i am of course thinking of the "people don't work for duty" comment. it seems like that, since it is relavent info for the operation of the base, would be flashback worthy, as well as gaining new insight on any intel gleaned during that period of time. i think that would be a great way for KC to work it all together. also remember, michael had them keep logs for intelligence purposes, who's to say the base commander didn't have the same idea, and now he's got an analyst, our very own michael.

don't get me wrong, i would love a couple of very slow episodes where we get nothing but information, i love that sort of thing, makes my brain twitch, but i think that would be a bit dry for most people.

[Cabbage Patch]

Hmmm, I forget, but does Chinwe have any radio equipment? Is she way to far away from Ft. Irwin to contact them in any way? Maybe after Michael provides what little information he has regarding L.A., the brass at Ft. Irwin decides it's time to pack up and head out. Just then, they get a radio message from Saul, Victor and CJ. It's garbled and they can't respond, but at least now, Michael knows that Saul and them are alive. He can't go with the rest of Ft. Irwin to whatever safe haven they have in Montana. He stays behind and a great number of his team stay behind with him. As the plane takes off, he sees three figures walking off the field. Corporal Puck, and two others decided they had enough of the Colonel's army. They join Sergeant Michael Cross and his rag-tag band of ass kickers.

We know there was radio equipment at Dunbar Apartments, Kalani used it to call the Mallers. As for radio signals reaching between LA and Fort Irwin, it's possible, but hard. If atmospheric conditions are right, if you have the right antenna, if both parties are on the same frequency and listening at the right time, then you can communicate just fine. AM or ham radios should work okay. FM or CB radios are a long shot.

[Witch_Doctor]

You know, with all the new information that the story is about to dump on us (and here I mean all the background intel from CJ about all her gang has learned and has been doing, as well as all the intel that Kimmet and the Army dudes have gleaned), I am curious about how Kc is going to deal with this....

... does this mean we are going to have an entire episode or two where it's just Michael and Kimmet talking in HQ?

It could play out like "The 31st" and "Last Dying Breath" with us, the audience, learning about the outbreak and initial responses from different perspectives. An example would be Victor telling a second-hand account of what he knows of the evacuation of the colony juxaposed against an account from someone from Fort Irwin. Although Victor says he wasn't present during the evacuation he seems to have some knowledge of the events as he describes them to Kelly and Pegs in chapter 18/3. The Fort Irwin account could be told by Col. Kemmit or, perhaps, Pvt. Carl Thomas.

We haven't heard much about the Colony's founding or why the rescue opperation ended. A plausable scenario could be:

Saul explains where he got the medicine, which leads to Victor discussing the Colony.
Victor discusses what he knows of the Colony's early days while someone at Fort Irwin discusses the rescue.
Victor mentions Sean, Michael, radio attempt, coup... CJ puts the pieces together Sherlock Holmes-style and conclude that the Mallers are heading to the colony because they had better radios and probably heard Michael's failed transmission to the Tower. Remember Tard's comment about having to listen to 'bird talk' in 21/1?

[UndeadSweeper]

It could play out like "The 31st" and "Last Dying Breath" with us, the audience, learning about the outbreak and initial responses from different perspectives. An example would be Victor telling a second-hand account of what he knows of the evacuation of the colony juxaposed against an account from someone from Fort Irwin. Although Victor says he wasn't present during the evacuation he seems to have some knowledge of the events as he describes them to Kelly and Pegs in chapter 18/3. The Fort Irwin account could be told by Col. Kemmit or, perhaps, Pvt. Carl Thomas.

We haven't heard much about the Colony's founding or why the rescue opperation ended. A plausable scenario could be:

Saul explains where he got the medicine, which leads to Victor discussing the Colony.
Victor discusses what he knows of the Colony's early days while someone at Fort Irwin discusses the rescue.
Victor mentions Sean, Michael, radio attempt, coup... CJ puts the pieces together Sherlock Holmes-style and conclude that the Mallers are heading to the colony because they had better radios and probably heard Michael's failed transmission to the Tower. Remember Tard's comment about having to listen to 'bird talk' in 21/1?


Can Ducan play the part of Watson?

[trubkir]

I can't believe I am saying this but is it Monday yet? I am as anxious as Homer Simpson when he had the waiting period to buy a handgun.

[Paul Arias]

Couldn't agree more. Started listening to We're Alive not long ago & caught up to Chapter 28. I HATED WAITING SO LONG!!!

[nikvoodoo]

Just wait until season 3 ends. That's when the real pain begins.

[Tielurrdee]

Sorry if i jam all this together im on a phone. Well we all know or hope that col. Kem has information but who knows yet they could really still be somewhat in the dark do to speak all over. Yes it's apparent that michael will be briefed because it's said by the col. Himself and puck says a lot of info will be dropped real quick and that the col. Can explain it all better then puck can himself. But who knows if the col will have better information then Michael (and us) because michael and company have been living closer to and within "the front lines" so to speak. And the col said he has no MI specialist (I think that how it was stated). So the col could know the sevarity of the out break and the extent but maybe not the little details michael does. And the different "kinds". Well I'm just babbling now don't mind me. Just a few more thoughts. Datu may not be a citizen so may not be cleared? Michael will push to grant his acceptance and give good reason of king datu's resource fullness (reference to nik)and faithfulness. I brought up a thought early in this part of the forum and no one elaborated or maybe no one thought much of it probably do thought I'd throw it back out if anyone was bored enought to enjoy the thought >>>>>
Ok so let me see if anyone follows this thought. At the beginning michael was speaking about everything as it had already happened and looking back on it. We have porgressed way past the point of him being the only narrator. So forever I've wondered from at which point does it go from past to present because he spoke of him self being "27 at the time this all started". So is the end of the whole story him at this point of reflection or could it be sooner then that and will we go from past to present in this chapter. Or was it a seamless transition between chapters when others began to narriate that the point past. Just a thought maybe it doesn't make sense. I'm trying to type this while working tho it's been on my mind for a long time. Anyways last but not least for me on this post sal back on his first journal entry (I'm not going to find it) says that if he turns into a biter that Michael is going to be his lunch. I've always thought that sal will get caught up and turned if he's not already. And now if you guys are right if Michael returns to la he could have a master tracker zombie "sal" seeking him for dinner. But who knows as I usually say at the end of my post I'm probably wrong. I know this isn't the crackpot theory section haha.

[Tielurrdee]

Just wait until season 3 ends. That's when the real pain begins.

:in corner rocking back and fourth: "happy thought happy thoughts happy thoughts:

[Cabbage Patch]

Just a few more thoughts. Datu may not be a citizen so may not be cleared? Michael will push to grant his acceptance and give good reason of king datu's resource fullness (reference to nik)and faithfulness.

I can't imagine Datu being Filippino would be a problem in and of itself. The Army has a long tradition of enlisting non-citizens to serve, and Filippinos have been serving honorably in large numbers for more than a hundred years. Being in the service gives you an immigration status similar to having a "Green Card", in that it allows you to stay and work as long as you're in the service. It also provides an expedited path to citizenship.

[Tielurrdee]

I can't imagine Datu being Filippino would be a problem in and of itself. The Army has a long tradition of enlisting non-citizens to serve, and Filippinos have been serving honorably in large numbers for more than a hundred years. Being in the service gives you an immigration status similar to having a "Green Card", in that it allows you to stay and work as long as you're in the service. It also provides an expedited path to citizenship.
Good to know that makes perfect sense

[Cabbage Patch]

I'm now leaning toward the idea that the C-130 in the Chapter artwork is taking some of our cast away to a "safe zone" somewhere other than Fort Irwin. That idea firmed up in my head as I listened to "We're Not Dead" episode 35.

Two of CPL Puck's comments make more sense in the context of civilians being evacuated. First, when he tells the group that, "once you get cleared you get your itineraries". If they were staying at Fort Irwin they would be getting their "assignments" or their "orders". Itineraries implies travel to me. Second, when Datu complained about having to learn military terminology and Puck makes the crack, "yeah, that might not be necessary". If it's not likely that Datu is staying on base then why would he need to learn the language?

Besides, it doesn't make sense to send characters back to LA in a C-130 when there are helicopters available.

[GingerNacre]

Small technical question...
My iTunes doesn't have new artwork for this episode.
Is it just me, or is there no artwork?

Mine had artwork.

[GingerNacre]

This last episode was chocked full of promises of information to help us figure out what is happening to the rest of the world via Michael being reinstated, but of course we have to wait now that he's getting brought up to speed. It's about time we knew more! Bring it on. More than anything, I felt a little empty inside with this ep. Why you ask? No Saul and Victor. Yes, yes! I know I can't get them EVERY episode but still, it made me sad on the inside. Im a fan girl for those boys and LOVE to hear them banter! More Saul and Victor please. :p

[Osiris]

This last episode was chocked full of promises of information to help us figure out what is happening to the rest of the world via Michael being reinstated, but of course we have to wait now that he's getting brought up to speed. It's about time we knew more! Bring it on. More than anything, I felt a little empty inside with this ep. Why you ask? No Saul and Victor. Yes, yes! I know I can't get them EVERY episode but still, it made me sad on the inside. Im a fan girl for those boys and LOVE to hear them banter! More Saul and Victor please. :p

I hear you in regard to the emptiness. Not hearing Jenna's voice makes me a little sad.

[DeadMen_Walking]

So are Saul and his mom immune? Guess I'll have to listen and find out...

[LiamKerrington]

So are Saul and his mom immune?

This is open to debate. And there are more then just few who speak in favor of this idea.

[DeadMen_Walking]

If Saul is immune, does that mean Lizzy is immune too, via injection? *insert rimshot*

[LiamKerrington]

Theory no 1: Saul and Tanya are immune. Saul had more then just one opportunity to get infected (the hybrid at the tank-station, being shot while fending off Tommy); and Tanya was bitten by a slow-turner.
Theory no 2: Saul and Tanya were quick enough to use the right, hard medication to prevent the infection to spread in their body.

About Lizzy: No, I think Lizzy is not immune. Spoiler Aler: But 'something' may become immune regarding her; how much of the show have you listened to yet?

Another Spoiler Alert: Hope ... (Just a mad theory made by me ...) This, again, depends of how far you have listened into the show yet ...

All the best!
Liam

[Witch_Doctor]

Theory no 1: Saul and Tanya are immune. Saul had more then just one opportunity to get infected (the hybrid at the tank-station, being shot while fending off Tommy); and Tanya was bitten by a slow-turner.
Theory no 2: Saul and Tanya were quick enough to use the right, hard medication to prevent the infection to spread in their body.

About Lizzy: No, I think Lizzy is not immune. Spoiler Aler: But 'something' may become immune regarding her; how much of the show have you listened to yet?

Another Spoiler Alert: Hope ... (Just a mad theory made by me ...) This, again, depends of how far you have listened into the show yet ...

All the best!
Liam

Ever since you brought up this idea I keep thinking that perhaps that what ever caused her blindness may have prevented some sort of Z contagion from reaching the brain.

[LiamKerrington]

Ever since you brought up this idea I keep thinking that perhaps that what ever caused her blindness may have prevented some sort of Z contagion from reaching the brain.

Wow, this is interesting. Haven't thought about something like this myself. This really would be very awesome and a twist of its own kind.

All the best!
Liam

[Blues_127]

*insert rimshot*

I hope you were speaking of drums...OH!!

[LiamKerrington]

I hope you were speaking of drums...OH!!

Is there another understanding available?

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Theory no 1: Saul and Tanya are immune. Saul had more then just one opportunity to get infected (the hybrid at the tank-station, being shot while fending off Tommy); and Tanya was bitten by a slow-turner.
Theory no 2: Saul and Tanya were quick enough to use the right, hard medication to prevent the infection to spread in their body.

About Lizzy: No, I think Lizzy is not immune. Spoiler Aler: But 'something' may become immune regarding her; how much of the show have you listened to yet?

Another Spoiler Alert: Hope ... (Just a mad theory made by me ...) This, again, depends of how far you have listened into the show yet ...

All the best!
Liam

I will stick with theory 1. I do not buy the second theory though, the whole setup would seem too deus ex machina to me. Yeah, it could be actually be true, but ...

[Elisa]

The baby might be immune, is that what you're implying? Hope isn't immune, just lucky IMO.