Chapter 28- Last Dying Breath Part 1

[nikvoodoo]

Happy release Monday!

Speculate: Whose last dying breath is it????

[7oddisdead]

Realistic:kalani
Crackpot: randy

[Richboy]

@7oodisdead i got my money on Crackpot: Randy:mad:

[nikvoodoo]

Longshot: Michael

[Grognaurd]

Crackpot,

Pete, he even bottled it for his best customers

[Adventureless_Hero]

I get the feeling we are going to lose more than one person. My money is on Angel, maybe Burt, and Riley. Out of those three, I believe Angel is the most likely.

[7oddisdead]

hmm.. if we are gonna start thinking of people not considered "dead" already (kalani, pippin,randy etc)..who has seemed to reach a resolution within their own minds? certainly not riley..she has yet to come to grips with the person she is/was..hmm..if we are going down a road of "fresh death" ...id go with tanya. most every character seems to still have a level of acceptance about who they are to develop before the big ban hammer from the sky comes down to take them

[Adventureless_Hero]

hmm.. if we are gonna start thinking of people not considered "dead" already (kalani, pippin,randy etc)..who has seemed to reach a resolution within their own minds? certainly not riley..she has yet to come to grips with the person she is/was..hmm..if we are going down a road of "fresh death" ...id go with tanya. most every character seems to still have a level of acceptance about who they are to develop before the big ban hammer from the sky comes down to take them

If that is the case then we'll need to get some answers from her regarding what she found from reading all the journals, and what she knows about the zombie behavior that closely resembles animals.

[7oddisdead]

If that is the case then we'll need to get some answers from her regarding what she found from reading all the journals, and what she knows about the zombie behavior that closely resembles animals.

you mean words uttered in her "last dying breath"?

(i wish this wasnt so much fun)

[Grognaurd]

AH is right on the money. At Fort Irwin, they do not have the hard copies. Tanya's scanning was inturupted by Randy and Scratch before she finished them and it is a bit of a cointoss if her or Michael had a copy of the work in progress on a jump drive or something.

[7oddisdead]

wow..humor in the morning does not translate..

yes, all these things you two are bringing up..but. who else could be a likely candidate for a death? if we had to pick one from the ft irwin group she would be my first choice...the chills from last episode being a precursor to a bigger problem..just fleshing out that angle if you will..

[UndeadSweeper]

Ghost-buster? I giggled

[UndeadSweeper]

I smell a rat!!!!!!!!!!!!

[abayarts]

I have to say the music/sounds in this chapter was so great, especially reliving the war again. excellent editing and brings back fond memories of the tower.

[abayarts]

Ghost-buster? I giggled

Yea, also seeing as the new cover art looks like a proton pack. :D

[Chogidog]

Damn, I hadn't realized how much i had missed hearing the other characters, esp Burt and Angel, until I heard them today.

[not_infected]

Aw, man, Kalani. You're breaking my heart.

I have to say that I was convinced all along that Kalani was the rat and that the rat was the shooter. This is how lame I am, though -- as we got closer to the point of no return, I kept hoping against hope that he wasn't, and that he didn't. Kc did an amazing job of making Kalani sympathetic and his motivations clear. Good work, sad story. Good bye Kalani.

[UndeadSweeper]

Nikvoodoo, I'm calling you out. Kalani knew, in full knowledge, that he was going to be a rat. It wasn't accident and was his intent when he got to the tower. Second we got the whole story without a cut away from the action except for some side comments from the readers. Crow is served. :)

[HardKor]

Alright first of all now hate Kalani for doing what he did but fully understand why he did it and sympathize...damn you KC for making me see both sides!
Second: I loved the little side comments during the reading especially Kelly's...and the ghostbusters line made me bust out my loud, obnoxious laugh.
Finally, as far as the title goes, this is obviously Kalani's last words but when I think "breath" and look at the cover art I can't help but think Saul and Victor might be heading into ground zero.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I was wrong too. I really did think, especially when Michael didn't jump into continuing the story, that Cpl. Puck was going to bust in and interrupt their finishing of the journal. Technically though, Kalani's journal was interrupted...we will never know what he meant to write at the very end. "Regardless of my actions, I..." -am sorry, -love you guys, -am on your side, is what I think he meant to say.

The music in this episode was fantastic. I also was amazed that you managed to skim through The War and Separate Dying Embers so quickly yet touched on all the main points in those episodes. And at last, I now have an answers as to how Kalani could be so adamant about leaving the tower when he knew full well the Mallers still had his daughter; he wanted the helicopters to get his daughter back. But before the helicopters came into play, what was he thinking? Did he want to run away and hope that his daughter would be okay if the Mallers assumed he was dead? Poor guy. It was a shitty situation all around. I just wish he had told the truth in the very beginning. If only he had know what type of people the Tower folk were, he would have seen that they would have helped him get Hannah back, even before Lizzy had been kidnapped.

Great episode. Oh, and so the Tower was on Spring street? I'll google that later. ;)

[UndeadSweeper]

Alright first of all now hate Kalani for doing what he did but fully understand why he did it and sympathize...damn you KC for making me see both sides!
Second: I loved the little side comments during the reading especially Kelly's...and the ghostbusters line made me bust out my loud, obnoxious laugh.
Finally, as far as the title goes, this is obviously Kalani's last words but when I think "breath" and look at the cover art I can't help but think Saul and Victor might be heading into ground zero.

The ends doesn't justify the means.

It hard for me to go along with him since his plan is the only plan he consisted.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I wonder how the gang is going to react to the fact that Kalani killed Pippin, or more importantly, that Michael locked up an innocent man, Lewis, who ended up dying because of it.

[UndeadSweeper]

I wonder how the gang is going to react to the fact that Kalani killed Pippin, or more importantly, that Michael locked up an innocent man, Lewis, who ended up dying because of it.

I don't think that they weight it on him too much since Lewis was also inform to why he need someone to lock-up.

[thatrichterkid]

I knew it was him. I knew it. What a jerk. I told my cousin who got me started on this podcast that it was Kalani. But I still can't believe he did all that. He outsmarted all of them. And I'm pretty sure Kalani is going to be alive, and that they picked him up when the tower was destroyed. I know he is with Scratch right now. Ugh. So frustrated.

[Cabbage Patch]

When did Kalani go back to the Tower to hide the diary?

He was at LAX working on the first helicopter. Then he and Burt drove to the Tower to pick up Angel and Riley on the way to the Hospital, but there's no indication he ever went in. After the hospital Kalani flew back to the Tower, but only to drop off Angel, and Burt implied that they rushed away to avoid exposing the helicopter to the Mallers. Did Kalani somehow find a way to slip away to Bill's apartment? After that it was Golf Course and the Kamikaze attack on the fuel tanker.

[Litmaster]

YES! I love Monday!!!

Nice long episode, great to listen to except it didn't give me much fuel for theorizing. I was surprised we kept going with the Kalani back-story, but now that we have that loose end all nice and tied back in, I think we can kick the story out of reverse and move through the present.

Next episode I see trouble with the brass at Irwin and Saul / Victor / CJ coming up with a plan of action.

[UndeadSweeper]

When did Kalani go back to the Tower to hide the diary?

He was at LAX working on the first helicopter. Then he and Burt drove to the Tower to pick up Angel and Riley on the way to the Hospital, but there's no indication he ever went in. After the hospital Kalani flew back to the Tower, but only to drop off Angel, and Burt implied that they rushed away to avoid exposing the helicopter to the Mallers. Did Kalani somehow find a way to slip away to Bill's apartment? After that it was Golf Course and the Kamikaze attack on the fuel tanker.

Probably use the room a lot after Bill was gone. His last entry must have been after they got the chopper first time? I think.

[Adventureless_Hero]

When did Kalani go back to the Tower to hide the diary?

He was at LAX working on the first helicopter. Then he and Burt drove to the Tower to pick up Angel and Riley on the way to the Hospital, but there's no indication he ever went in. After the hospital Kalani flew back to the Tower, but only to drop off Angel, and Burt implied that they rushed away to avoid exposing the helicopter to the Mallers. Did Kalani somehow find a way to slip away to Bill's apartment? After that it was Golf Course and the Kamikaze attack on the fuel tanker.

I wondered about this too, but I suppose it isn't too difficult to imagine that when they dropped off Angel he could have had an opportunity to run down to Bill's apartment, or even when they went to pick up Angel and Riley. He could have said that he needed something crucial to the mission or something and just run up real quick like.

I'm wondering when and where he got the silenced pistol to shoot Pippin.

[StickUpKid]

i had the whole kalani plot worked in my head at the end of chapter 24, besides his involvement with the other tower. But can anyone explain the cover art to me. im guessing by the gas mask, ground zero? but idk.

[UndeadSweeper]

I wondered about this too, but I suppose it isn't too difficult to imagine that when they dropped off Angel he could have had an opportunity to run down to Bill's apartment, or even when they went to pick up Angel and Riley. He could have said that he needed something crucial to the mission or something and just run up real quick like.

I'm wondering when and where he got the silenced pistol to shoot Pippin.

Probably from the gun bag that Bill hid. Because he would have gotten to it to get the gun to shoot the floor. Also we know Lock n Load had many type of weapons.

[Osiris]

I'm hopeful that it's something we don't see coming. Ideally, I'd like to see Michael killed off. It would be a fantastic way to shake the very foundations of the show... Michael dies, Angel returns with Burt, and we find out that Kalani was thrown clear of the explosion, surviving with Skittles in an overrun city. As unlikely as that scenario is--considering Michael is recounting the story through the survivors' journals since episode one--it would be the direction I'd love to see it turn.

Not that I don't love Michael, because I certainly do. It just feels like the most erratic move and as such the most fun.

[cupcakezombie]

One interesting point was that one of Scratch's first questions was about whether or not there were any cops, and she was quite forceful about it. Does that mean that CJ's tower were cops rather then prision guards?

[7oddisdead]

Hmm...first of all, great episode..tons of questions answered. The ending almost got to me..was really awesome to hear kalani telling his story..all the bits we wanted to hear.

But now I'm gonna sound like a hater

Part of me has to admit a slight feeling of disappointment at hearing the entire thing all laid out in front of us. Mainly the fact the most of the kalani is the rat theories were for the most part true...im certainly not upset by the writing of it...it really was quite awesome and I'm glad the rat storyline can (for the most part) be put to bed...its just, I dunno..i guess I secretly hoped for more, ya know?

End/hate

Still..really has been a great little flashback the last few episodes..this is great writing made greater by the voices put to it.. Big high fives to KC for writing it and Kevin for putting the perfect voice to someone as dynamic as kalani...because of that I can almost totally ignore the crackpot side of my mind and just enjoy this for what it is...art

[ICTerify]

Another good episode KC!

This does wrap up alot of loose ends with Kalani, but does raise questions of how Kalani was going to rescue Hannah and when was he going to tell Michael and company about it since he was going to need their help in the rescue. Of course we will never know....

[cupcakezombie]

I am wondering if Kalani was interrupted writing in his journal in chapter 22 part 3 around 4:45

[Litmaster]

Part of me has to admit a slight feeling of disappointment at hearing the entire thing all laid out in front of us. Mainly the fact the most of the kalani is the rat theories were for the most part true...im certainly not upset by the writing of it...it really was quite awesome and I'm glad the rat storyline can (for the most part) be put to bed...its just, I dunno..i guess I secretly hoped for more, ya know?

Don't worry, 7odd. There's still lots of unanswered questions, still the Mallers to contend with, still Ink and Co. running wild... The story didn't start as a 'Rat Whodunit?' to begin with, right? I still think we're heading towards a larger showdown with Scratch, Gatekeeper, and Ink... and sometime here they have gotta finally figure out what the hell is going on with ground zero and the outbreak. Maybe the boys at Irwin will have info on the Z-genesis...

I have a question raised by this episode, though, if anyone can help me out:

Q. If that asshole Bill just stole all the weapons out of spite, then why did he suddenly flip-flop and start fighting for our guys? Wouldn't he just start handing the weapons back out??? Can't figure that guy out...




Oh, and Kc:
Masterful job of editing with that sound-montage of the War & Aftermath... that was really cool to listen to with headphones!

If you guys don't win an Audie for your work then the APA sucks balls!

[nikvoodoo]

Lest you think I'm hiding I had a busy day.

Told you I'd eat my crow. And Those you picked Kalani you were right. gloat as much as you want.

Great episode and I'm very happy that the journal cut off. I like that we're still left with a mystery even after all the questions that were answered. As my latest position I stated that Riley left the roof at some point during Chapter 24. Kalani said she just left, but he's just proven how he's able to manipulate a timeline re: Datu. I will say I was happy that my explanation as to how Kalani could be in two places at once ended up coming to pass. Manipulate the situation to make someone else vouch for you.

Poor Datu never saw it coming. Wonder how angry he will be about being used like that.

[Eviebae]

I'm so glad that solution is out of the way because as I've said before, I just didn't care that much. I was interested to hear there was a reason for the shot fired from the tower. Interesting also that the Durai had someone fire from the top of the tower. Guess it was to present a motive other than being complete Bstrds for attacking the tower. It might help our team to think that surrendering to the Maller's was an viable option instead of a disastrous mistake.

I Wonder why Scratch and Latch are so scared of Durai?

Why someone so good at manipulation can only see to steal the accomplishments of others rather than creating their own?

[Osiris]

I don't want to believe that Scratch was afraid of Durai so much as she had been placed in a position similiar to Kalani. Scratch makes the most sense when she's fearless.

[werewolf]

the thing that got me is that even after Kalani was rescued by Angel and Riley at the arena. He had an attitude about the people that rescued him. Yea, I guess that you might too if the first people that rescued you was Scratch and Latch. But, still couldn't he see that these people where different than the mallers. I guess you would do anything to keep your daughter safe in the end. Even betray the people that would more likely be the ones that actually could help you get your daughter back. It was a good episode loved the 30 mins even though it felt like it was over in 5. So, now where do we go from here? Will, Saul and Victor find a radio and try to reach the base? Or will they find where the mallers are hiding now and find Angel and Burt? Will Micheal and the gang hijack one of the helicopters to try and go back to find their friends? stay tuned on the same zombie channel, the same zombie time. (60s reference to batman)

[awkwardalex]

Lest you think I'm hiding I had a busy day.

Told you I'd eat my crow. And Those you picked Kalani you were right. gloat as much as you want.

Great episode and I'm very happy that the journal cut off. I like that we're still left with a mystery even after all the questions that were answered. As my latest position I stated that Riley left the roof at some point during Chapter 24. Kalani said she just left, but he's just proven how he's able to manipulate a timeline re: Datu. I will say I was happy that my explanation as to how Kalani could be in two places at once ended up coming to pass. Manipulate the situation to make someone else vouch for you.

Poor Datu never saw it coming. Wonder how angry he will be about being used like that.

I'D make you eat your crow if i was not fuming over the fact that Kalani didnt even ask for proof that Hannah was alive before ratting oit the tower.

Ok i'll admit ima little cranky because more secrets are being unfolded and that means were so much closer to the end.

[7oddisdead]

I'D make you eat your crow if i was not fuming over the fact that Kalani didnt even ask for proof that Hannah was alive before ratting oit the tower.

Ok i'll admit ima little cranky because more secrets are being unfolded and that means were so much closer to the end.

totally see your point at the end there, but are we really? throughout this whole saga that has been playing out, the rat situation has been a sidebar to the entire story. the underpinnings to a larger scenario of human vs human conflict when its totally unnessacary in a "zombie" apacolypse. while ill agree that im sad to see the rat story come seemingly to an end..it really does open up numerous different options as far as story direction..this is done, closed, out of the way..now..on to more pressing matters. the last 3-4 parts have been brilliant execution of a story that could have taken place in any enviroment..not just a zombie story. weaving it into a story such as this is real deal stuff (man, i sound like a gushing fanboy..wtf?..)

anyways, so the human betrayal story arc is (for the most part) concluded..just think of the bits we have yet to figure out? perfect example..this chapters cover art

so we have what looks like either a gas mask or a flight helmet..either way, as many have said..it leans more toward possible ground zero exploration, now throw on top of that the chapter title and we have set a very ominous scenario for out la trio havent we?...so long as we are thinking along those lines, who among our trio has ultimately served their purpose? one that could have one last parting thing to say..filling the meaning of the chapter title? perhaps cj is not long for this story..perhaps vic?( :( ) oh heaven forbid saul! hes gotta find his lizzie! plenty more stupid things for him to rush into still.. reallly just this first chapter has left us with few questions..and a whole bunch of answers..but thats kinda cool every now and then.

[Cabbage Patch]

Has anyone else noticed that Kalani seems a little full of himself when it comes to the ladies? Remember, much of what we've been hearing of his backstory is being told by him, first-person, in his journal. So first he describes himself having breaking the ice with Samantha in a situation that was fraught with potential. Then he describes Kelly basically coming on to him. There's no telling how much of that, if any, is true. The story doesn't tell us if Kalani went on to become some sort of "Tower Lothario" after the War, but I bet he saw himself that way!

Overall this story episode did a fine job of closing out Kalani's backstory. The only things it left me wanting closure on were the encounter with Skittles/Duncan at the Army base and what he did with the silenced pistol. I'd love to know if Kalani honestly didn't recognize Duncan, or if he was lying to protect his cover. And a silenced pistol sure would have come in handy during that encouter with Pinstripes at the Hospital!

[clem131]

Interesting also that the Durai had someone fire from the top of the tower. Guess it was to present a motive other than being complete Bstrds for attacking the tower. It might help our team to think that surrendering to the Maller's was an viable option instead of a disastrous mistake.

I Wonder why Scratch and Latch are so scared of Durai?

I think it was Scratch idea, not Durai's. The guys in the tower know what happened to the tanker for real, while back at the Mallers' the culprit was believed to be Charlie. Not that I think Durai would give a damn about poor Charlie, but I think Scratch realizes that if they'd capture the Tower occupants alive sooner or later this would come up and put Scratch and Latch in trouble. I think she had Kalani shoot because she wanted an excuse to take the tower by violence and kill the potential witnesses to the real tanker story. Durai seems also genuinely surprised when he delivers the line "YOU are shooting at us!" in response to Michael and he wanted the building as intact as possible, it was pretty clear to me: when Scratch is about to set fire to the stairwell one of the Mallers protests they shouldn't do it, and I'm guessing not out of compassion for the occupants of the Tower.

Great to hear old voices again, but as far as I can tell there are no new Angel recordings. I'm a bit curious as to where Shane Salk is, as he's also not producing this season.

[UndeadSweeper]

I think it was Scratch idea, not Durai's. The guys in the tower know what happened to the tanker for real, while back at the Mallers' the culprit was believed to be Carl. Not that I think Durai would give a damn about poor Carl, but I think Scratch realizes that if they'd capture the Tower occupants alive sooner or later this would come up and put Scratch and Latch in trouble. I think she had Kalani shoot because she wanted an excuse to take the tower by violence and kill the potential witnesses to the real tanker story. Durai seems also genuinely surprised when he delivers the line "YOU are shooting at us!" in response to Michael and he wanted the building as intact as possible, it was pretty clear to me: when Scratch is about to set fire to the stairwell one of the Mallers protests they shouldn't do it, and I'm guessing not out of compassion for the occupants of the Tower.

Great to hear old voices again, but as far as I can tell there are no new Angel recordings. I'm a bit curious as to where Shane Salk is, as he's also not producing this season.

I was think that too. Scratch is so scared of Durai and I didn't know why. The Tanker is a good reason or maybe the visit to the tower could be another. She may have never told Durai of either thing. Your Kalani shoot theory does fit well. We do know that she does have a habit of keeping secrets from Durai since she plan the last assault without him knowing. Only thing I can't think about was her questions about cops being there and also why were guns at this tower a bigger issue to guns the other tower.

[wh33t]

I listened to this twice yesterday, which I found difficult as I'm really tired of this side story of betrayal, I'm very happy to see it come to a close and I hope there is a return of some Zombies.

I'm glad others have come to the conclusion that Scratch did a bit of a false flag attack on her own people to justify attacking The Tower crew. I think as others have noticed that this will be foreshadowing for a future potential conflict between Scratch and Durai. I do think Scratch will come out on top.

As usual and expected, The We're Alive team is essentially flawless, great job guys!

[DeeKay86]

Finally I'm back on here and it feels great!

Listened to this today on my lunch break. Havent had time for anything recently as I have JUST BECOME AN UNCLE!! woop!!! LoL - Anyways, back to We're Alive.

Firstly to the cast and crew - you are all f*cking amazing in every sense of the word. Kc, you sir, are an absolute legend. Just when I thought that the sound design and overall artistic way of telling this story couldnt get any better, you blow my expectations out of the water. Please don't stop - this is quite honestly some of the best stuff I have ever heard, which includes every form of media from movies to games.

The montage of the war etc was simply mind blowing.

So.Much.Win.

[Eviebae]

I think it was Scratch idea, not Durai's. The guys in the tower know what happened to the tanker for real, while back at the Mallers' the culprit was believed to be Carl. Not that I think Durai would give a damn about poor Carl, but I think Scratch realizes that if they'd capture the Tower occupants alive sooner or later this would come up and put Scratch and Latch in trouble. I think she had Kalani shoot because she wanted an excuse to take the tower by violence and kill the potential witnesses to the real tanker story. Durai seems also genuinely surprised when he delivers the line "YOU are shooting at us!" in response to Michael and he wanted the building as intact as possible, it was pretty clear to me: when Scratch is about to set fire to the stairwell one of the Mallers protests they shouldn't do it, and I'm guessing not out of compassion for the occupants of the Tower.

Great to hear old voices again, but as far as I can tell there are no new Angel recordings. I'm a bit curious as to where Shane Salk is, as he's also not producing this season.

She leaves briefly to tell (probably) Durai what Kalani has said and comes back with orders, so I think she got said orders from Durai. She has said more than once, I think, that she doesn't want to have to try and lie to Durai. She kills Carl to avoid being blamed and I think that shows fear of the consequences.

[Kc]

She leaves briefly to tell (probably) Durai what Kalani has said and comes back with orders, so I think she got said orders from Durai. She has said more than once, I think, that she doesn't want to have to try and lie to Durai. She kills Carl to avoid being blamed and I think that shows fear of the consequences.

Ok, I got confused. You mean Charlie, not Carl.

[wh33t]

She leaves briefly to tell (probably) Durai what Kalani has said and comes back with orders, so I think she got said orders from Durai. She has said more than once, I think, that she doesn't want to have to try and lie to Durai. She kills Carl to avoid being blamed and I think that shows fear of the consequences.

I think she does acknowledge that Durai is in command, but she's still a rogue soldier, I think her choices time and time again prove that.

[Raven]

Great to hear old voices again, but as far as I can tell there are no new Angel recordings. I'm a bit curious as to where Shane Salk is, as he's also not producing this season.
dunno if it ever made it to other works page but last I heard Shane was being the genie in Aladdin on a cruise partying it up or some such shenanigans.
But I really liked the whole The War in a nutshell with Kahlani/Bill add ons. It really gave some good perspective

[Adventureless_Hero]

So Kalani never said anything about his daughter being killed in his journals. Do we assume the red-head on the golf course was her? Is she still alive? WTF? Questions still exist!

I don't think Datu will be upset that he was used as an alibi by Kalani. His bigger concern might actually be Hannah. Keep in mind that Hope is sort of in a situation like Hannah was; left orphaned to a group that doesn't really want her. Colony : Mallers : : Hope : Hannah

So, does anyone think we could see Datu and possibly Pegs arguing that they need to go back and rescue Hannah? Then Riley and Tanya will jump on board and say they need to check for Saul and Angel? That would leave Michael out voted. Perhaps once convinced, he would talk with the Ft. Irwin Commander and provide some other reason they need to head back to Los Angeles?
It's a pretty thin idea, but it could happen.

In regards to the chapter art, I have no idea what is going to happen. My instincts tell me it is something related to Ground Zero, but why would Saul want to go there? His only concern right now is Lizzy. Perhaps we are still in store for some more flashbacks, only this time they will be told from the files of Chinwe and focus on her convoys venturing into Ground Zero?

[Osiris]

I really hope it doesn't go the way of 'Oh my god! Michael! We need to go rescue poor Hannah!'. I don't think I could stomach another Season of whining and pining. Those that survived and made it to Irwin need to focus on what's in front of them and not what's behind.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I really hope it doesn't go the way of 'Oh my god! Michael! We need to go rescue poor Hannah!'. I don't think I could stomach another Season of whining and pining. Those that survived and made it to Irwin need to focus on what's in front of them and not what's behind.

Very true. I honestly don't see Hannah being a priority for the group. But if you look at what lies ahead, they do eventually need to get some answers as to what is causing the Zombie outbreak and how it can be dealt with. They can't live at Ft. Irwin forever in perpetual safety while the rest of the world remains an undead playground. They'll definitely have to head back to Los Angeles to investigate Ground Zero.

[Osiris]

Very true. I honestly don't see Hannah being a priority for the group. But if you look at what lies ahead, they do eventually need to get some answers as to what is causing the Zombie outbreak and how it can be dealt with. They can't live at Ft. Irwin forever in perpetual safety while the rest of the world remains an undead playground. They'll definitely have to head back to Los Angeles to investigate Ground Zero.

That would still be looking forward though. Searching for an answer/cure for the outbreak is a move in the right direction. Sitting around pining over those left behind isn't moving the story forward. It keeps it idle and over enough time will drive it backward. I'd hate to see that happen.

[nikvoodoo]

Piggybacking off both Osiris and Hero: The nice thing about how the cast is currently split up is the ability to multi-task the plot line. While Saul, Victor and potentially CJ investigate ground zero and the outbreak (which seems inevitable since that machine gun in the artwork looks suspiciously like the SAW), Michael and the other survivors can explore another aspect of the story like the collapse of the government structure or something else.

There's no way they stay at Irwin. And I hope we go a different route than the Colony where they had to leave rapidly because shit went downhill. I think it'd be nice to have it more like a mission to return to LA for some reason and just happen to hear some radio chatter to realize their peeps are still alive.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Piggybacking off both Osiris and Hero: The nice thing about how the cast is currently split up is the ability to multi-task the plot line. While Saul, Victor and potentially CJ investigate ground zero and the outbreak (which seems inevitable since that machine gun in the artwork looks suspiciously like the SAW), Michael and the other survivors can explore another aspect of the story like the collapse of the government structure or something else.

There's no way they stay at Irwin. And I hope we go a different route than the Colony where they had to leave rapidly because shit went downhill. I think it'd be nice to have it more like a mission to return to LA for some reason and just happen to hear some radio chatter to realize their peeps are still alive.

Piggy backing off of Nik, who piggy backed off of me, who piggy backed off of Osiris, who is just a wierdo. :p :
That seems to make quite a bit of sense. I don't think there are any strong reasons that we currently know of for anyone at Ft. Irwin to return to L.A. There has to be some new element they introduce to Michaels group so they can have a real reason to return to L.A. I'm hoping that the military group in Ft. Irwin have a shit load of intel regarding what happened, and possibly shed some light on Ground Zero. It could end up being a split story telling mode where you have the Brass talking about what they know at Ground Zero and Saul,Victor, & Chinwe witnessing it first hand as they explore that area.

But again, I can't imagine how they would convince Saul to go check out Ground Zero when, right now, his only priority is getting Lizzy back.

[Osiris]

I'm not piggy backing off anyone.

[Eviebae]

Ok, I got confused. You mean Charlie, not Carl.

I...knew...that...it was a test, yeah, a test...

[Eviebae]

I think she does acknowledge that Durai is in command, but she's still a rogue soldier, I think her choices time and time again prove that.

I think she's a survivor, and Durai seems to rule by fiat rather than committee. I'm betting she's had a hard life and some hard losses but manages to hold on.

[Cabbage Patch]

I want to see Hope come to the forefront, at least for a little while. I can't imagine her going back to LA with the group, and if she's left behind at Fort Irwin you might as well write her out of the story.

How about a storyline where Hope knows about something critical relating to Ground Zero from her time at the Other Tower. Maybe she remembers an artifact that an Other Tower convoy brought back from Ground Zero that the government really wants to get its hands on. Or maybe Duncan really was an important scientist and it's Hope's description of him makes Riley realize that Duncan is Skittles. We need something plot related to justify Hope's continuing suvival.

[IamPaul]

I loved that episode. This one part is so much more exciting that the whole of chapter 27. I loved 'The War' montage. It got me pumped. I feel that Kalani was just going to put, i'm sorry. Maybe he still had some contact with the Mallers, and knew that they were coming again. In Chapter 24 I think he says something to the effect of 'it wasn't supposed to happen that way' when picking up Michael and the others at the golf course. I dunno. Anyone want to let me know if that is correct. I will listen tommorrow to see about it.

[Litmaster]

I don't think there are any strong reasons that we currently know of for anyone at Ft. Irwin to return to L.A. There has to be some new element they introduce to Michaels group so they can have a real reason to return to L.A. I'm hoping that the military group in Ft. Irwin have a shit load of intel regarding what happened, and possibly shed some light on Ground Zero.

I agree with your point about having a real reason to return to LA. The only thing I can think of is a

'Pull Factor'- meaning something they want / need compels them to return to LA. Resucing Hannah seems unlikely, but maybe Saul and the gang if they knew he was still alive. I can't see Mike & Co. going to Ground Zero on research grounds either, unless he goes with a host of other soldiers and there seems to be a real chance of coming up with a 'cure' if they can get some needed element from GZ. The only other reason I can think of them leaving Irwin is a

'Push Factor'- meaning some shitty conditions at Irwin that compel them to GTFO, similar to what happened at the Colony. What if the Irwin guys are all crazy, or domineering? But ah, this doesn't seem likely to me, as I don't think Kc will re-hash the same basic plot element twice. I mean, how many places are they really going to escape from??


If I had to guess, I vote for the 'Pull Factor' in the form of 'secret Irwin intel' about Ground Zero. And somehow they re-unite with Saul/Vic/CJ in the process...

[Eviebae]

I think she's a survivor, and Durai seems to rule by fiat rather than committee. I'm betting she's had a hard life and some hard losses but manages to hold on.

That sounds way more heroic than I meant it to. I used to have rats as pets. Some people accepted it and some were appalled. I always said that a rat is a lot like a human being, the rougher they've had it the meaner they are. That's how I see Scratch.

[clem131]

Ok, I got confused. You mean Charlie, not Carl.

Fixed.

[Osiris]

That sounds way more heroic than I meant it to. I used to have rats as pets. Some people accepted it and some were appalled. I always said that a rat is a lot like a human being, the rougher they've had it the meaner they are. That's how I see Scratch.

Scratch is very much 'heroic'. We don't know enough of her backstory to be definitive with the label of being either evil or a monster.

[Grognaurd]

Sheesh, how many silenced guns are there?

We know of a silenced handgun. Burt gave it to Michael in season 1. We do not where it was stored. In Burt's Armory? Stay with Michael? If it were me, I would have certainly taken it on the water works mission.

We do not hear of the handgun until they are on the way to the Colony.
It is taken by the Colony
It is taken back from the colony and goes back to the tower.

Michael etal now drive back to the tower with a silenced pistol and a silenced MP5.

Burt also returns to the tower after looking for lizzy.

Burt is in the building for probably less than an hour before he goes out with Saul.

Extra people and extra weapons assemble to assault the Mallers.

When the group splits up, Burt thinks he has a silenced pistol in his back. But, we soon find out it is not in his bag.

Kalani shoots Pippin and leaves with Datu and the silenced handgun

Burt and Kalani drive from LAx to the Tower and are reinforced with Angel and Riley.

We never hear Burt inquire about the missing pistol. Kalani does not appear to have time to replace the handgun.

Kalani must "unload" the gun somewhere or take it to the hospital. If he does take it to the hospital, he does not appear to have used it.

Kalani is the shooter, but the custody chain of the silenced handgun is murky at best and not tied up with a neat little bow as KC usually does.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Hot dayyyamn! Well, kudos to everyone that thought Kalani was the trifecta. Man having my redshirt theory blown out the sky really sucked. LOL. oh well.
Bill stealing all the stuff... LOL. I can't even remember if anyone even thought he was in the picture. So know we really know what he was "sorry" about. Those two striking a deal was classic and a huge surprise. Loved it.
Still bum'd that Kalani did everything. I guess the saying hiding in plain sight or going with the simpliest idea really is the way to go.

Ok, Michael's next step:
I think he smoozes the base..crap, I mean..post Commander to take a good crew back to LA to do something violent and final to the mallers. They caused a good amount of pain, suffering and deaths and can't be allowed to get away with it.

[reaper239]

could you see them flying in with a couple of blackhawks, maybe some apaches, and a platoon of combat ready soldiers dropping into the middle of maller town? oh, it would be epic.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

could you see them flying in with a couple of blackhawks, maybe some apaches, and a platoon of combat ready soldiers dropping into the middle of maller town? oh, it would be epic.


Dude.. I'm saying!
No way can anyone on this side of the law, let that keep going.

[Kc]

Sheesh, how many silenced guns are there?

We know of a silenced handgun. Burt gave it to Michael in season 1. We do not where it was stored. In Burt's Armory? Stay with Michael? If it were me, I would have certainly taken it on the water works mission.

We do not hear of the handgun until they are on the way to the Colony.
It is taken by the Colony
It is taken back from the colony and goes back to the tower.

Michael etal now drive back to the tower with a silenced pistol and a silenced MP5.

Burt also returns to the tower after looking for lizzy.

Burt is in the building for probably less than an hour before he goes out with Saul.

Extra people and extra weapons assemble to assault the Mallers.

When the group splits up, Burt thinks he has a silenced pistol in his back. But, we soon find out it is not in his bag.

Kalani shoots Pippin and leaves with Datu and the silenced handgun

Burt and Kalani drive from LAx to the Tower and are reinforced with Angel and Riley.

We never hear Burt inquire about the missing pistol. Kalani does not appear to have time to replace the handgun.

Kalani must "unload" the gun somewhere or take it to the hospital. If he does take it to the hospital, he does not appear to have used it.

Kalani is the shooter, but the custody chain of the silenced handgun is murky at best and not tied up with a neat little bow as KC usually does.

If there would have been exact weapon accountability, it wouldn't have "gone missing". But, now that this end of the story is tied up, what do you want to know? I didn't include every detail.

[Eviebae]

Scratch is very much 'heroic'. We don't know enough of her backstory to be definitive with the label of being either evil or a monster.

Perhaps you will understand my point more if I say my original post felt melodramatic. I've been intrigued by her for a long time. Kc has a history of introducing a character in a way that makes you think the story will go one way (thanks to the TV stereotypes many of us are exposed to) and turning the story so our sympathies are engaged. I'm pretty sure it's calculated, that's one of the many reasons I like this podcast so much.

[Adventureless_Hero]

If there would have been exact weapon accountability, it wouldn't have "gone missing". But, now that this end of the story is tied up, what do you want to know? I didn't include every detail.

How did Kalani obtain the Silenced Pistol?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

How did Kalani obtain the Silenced Pistol?

he made it with a potato. Duhhhh!

[loydmilligan]

I am a first time poster, gotta say thanks to KC and the whole crew for producing such an excellent show.

Regarding this episode, I really felt Kalani did not handle the hostage situation very well. First, he did not insist on hearing hannah speak to confirm she was ok before going forward with the plan. Second, he did not attempt to get any info from pippin. I realize having hope there made that difficult. but i dunno, he could have whispered to pippin or something. And last, I am not sure why he thought that pretending he was dead was the best course of action after the war. Why not contact them? He had done everything asked of him, why not demand her back. Also, why not continue being a rat? He had already betrayed these people, why the sudden change of heart? I will say much of my opinion on how one should handle this situation is from movies....so who knows how a person would really react in this case.

The other thing I was wondering about, did Datu lie about Kalani's whereabouts or did he just not realize that Kalani had gone upstairs because he was so into that CD? Also, Michael should have realized Kalani's alibi was suspect because Kalani had spoken to Michael moments before the murder happened.

and the other thing I wanted to know but someone had already pointed out here - Scratch must have ordered Kalani to fire that bullet on her own - Durai would have no reason (that I can think of) to fake his motivations for starting the war.

Thanks again for all the time and effort put into this...GREAT the War montage/recap in this episode!

[Grognaurd]

EDIT

By chain of custody I do not mean formal paper for characters, I mean chain of possession in my own mind.

End Edit


Yea, I just want to follow the silenced pistol.

Kalani is a slippery eel. I did not peg him as the shooter or assassin, because of the difficulty of linking him to the handguns. If I assume one silenced handgun, it gets rough.

The gun has to come back from the colony. This leaves very little time for it to get to Burt, who puts it in his bag, where it appears Kalani stole it. It is not as if he took Shirley, but stealing a gun from someone who is about to go back out into the hell that is LA is a rotten thing to do. We also have to keep in mind, that Burt and Saul leave the tower before Pippin shows up. At this time Kalani would not have the pressing need for a silenced weapon.

Linking Kalani to Michael's silence pistol is not impossible, but it does get a little convoluted.

Kalani most likely brings the handgun to LAX. Burt and Kalani, drive back to the tower and over to the hospitol. As Kalani, does not use the silenced handgun to shoot our buddy Paul in the back of the head he may have left it back at the tower. Or, he brought it with him, but would not use it infront of Riley because he did not want to be linked to Pippin all the while worrying about using a gun because it is too loud and puts him at such risk he is actually jumped by a zombie.

I do not want to take anything away from your story. Just say the word and I will not do any more nit-picking of your excellent show, Lord knows, I have enough of my own nits to pick to keep me busy this summer

[Osiris]

Perhaps you will understand my point more if I say my original post felt melodramatic. I've been intrigued by her for a long time. Kc has a history of introducing a character in a way that makes you think the story will go one way (thanks to the TV stereotypes many of us are exposed to) and turning the story so our sympathies are engaged. I'm pretty sure it's calculated, that's one of the many reasons I like this podcast so much.

I got your point the first time around. I was piggy backing. Perhaps you should be less concerned with me 'getting it' and just roll with what happens.

[HardKor]

I am a first time poster, gotta say thanks to KC and the whole crew for producing such an excellent show.

Regarding this episode, I really felt Kalani did not handle the hostage situation very well. First, he did not insist on hearing hannah speak to confirm she was ok before going forward with the plan. Second, he did not attempt to get any info from pippin. I realize having hope there made that difficult. but i dunno, he could have whispered to pippin or something. And last, I am not sure why he thought that pretending he was dead was the best course of action after the war. Why not contact them? He had done everything asked of him, why not demand her back. Also, why not continue being a rat? He had already betrayed these people, why the sudden change of heart? I will say much of my opinion on how one should handle this situation is from movies....so who knows how a person would really react in this case.

The other thing I was wondering about, did Datu lie about Kalani's whereabouts or did he just not realize that Kalani had gone upstairs because he was so into that CD? Also, Michael should have realized Kalani's alibi was suspect because Kalani had spoken to Michael moments before the murder happened.

and the other thing I wanted to know but someone had already pointed out here - Scratch must have ordered Kalani to fire that bullet on her own - Durai would have no reason (that I can think of) to fake his motivations for starting the war.

Thanks again for all the time and effort put into this...GREAT the War montage/recap in this episode!

First of all welcome to the forums.
Kalani did mishandle the situation in so many ways. If he had told the Tower folks about what had happened to him in the first place they most likely would have helped him. But he has also just met these people and had no idea what they were like.
As far as some of things you brought up specifically: It seems like Kalani bailed on being the rat because he got freaked out after the war. Think about what it would be like to look around after the battle and see what the Mallers were capable of doing and then realize that you are the one responsible for causing it. He didn't want to help these people out anymore. He only helped them in the first place because he thought he had to to protect his daughter. After the war his priority shifted to laying low and trying to find another way to get Hannah back that didn't involve causing another situation like the war. At least that's how I see it anyway.

[Osiris]

The other thing I was wondering about, did Datu lie about Kalani's whereabouts or did he just not realize that Kalani had gone upstairs because he was so into that CD? Also, Michael should have realized Kalani's alibi was suspect because Kalani had spoken to Michael moments before the murder happened.

and the other thing I wanted to know but someone had already pointed out here - Scratch must have ordered Kalani to fire that bullet on her own - Durai would have no reason (that I can think of) to fake his motivations for starting the war.


Very interesting point about Datu and something I had not considered until just now. Why was Datu covering for Kalani unless he knew what was going down? Then again, if Datu DID know why would bother to cover for Kalani when Pippin was murdered? Why wouldn't he just sell that tubby bitch out? Instead he risks his own stake in The Tower by covering for him. Why? WHY DAMNIT!

Durai has plenty of motivation to fake the war. He's a manipulator. That's what they do. They manipulate. Scratch seems to be the one who would simply say 'You've got until 3 and then I'm going to burn your house down... 3...' Durai is the devious one. But, that's just me.

[Grognaurd]

Do not worry about the Datu thing. Kalani puts Datu's favorite CD in and turns up the radio. When the duo gets a call about it, Datu could say something, I never heard an alarm, did you? Kalani says No, i didn't it must have happened shortly after we left.

[Adventureless_Hero]

First of all welcome to the forums.
Kalani did mishandle the situation in so many ways. If he had told the Tower folks about what had happened to him in the first place they most likely would have helped him. But he has also just met these people and had no idea what they were like.
As far as some of things you brought up specifically: It seems like Kalani bailed on being the rat because he got freaked out after the war. Think about what it would be like to look around after the battle and see what the Mallers were capable of doing and then realize that you are the one responsible for causing it. He didn't want to help these people out anymore. He only helped them in the first place because he thought he had to to protect his daughter. After the war his priority shifted to laying low and trying to find another way to get Hannah back that didn't involve causing another situation like the war. At least that's how I see it anyway.

Bah, I have to spread the Rep before I can hook you up again, but agreed! I think it must have been a difficult position Kalani was in. Knowing what we know about the tower members, it is easy to say K-man should have told Michael about Hannah and his relation to the Mallers. Shit, Michael's smart, they could have used K-man as a double agent! But unfortunately for everyone, Kalani didn't know much about Michael and the Tower. The Tower was in a shite situation at the time Kalani showed up, so he saw them bickering with each other and stealing from each other. Not a good impression. So, he felt the best thing he could do, the only thing he could do to get his daughter back safely, was to play ball with the Mallers.

After the war, he saw the aftermath and probably shoulded a lot of guilt, especially after seeing Tommy's corpse and realizing that his daughter was only a few years older than the young man. Letting the Mallers think he was dead would have bought him some time to come up with some kind of plan. Hell, in the number of times I have listened to We're Alive, I came across a point where I sometimes felt Kalani wanted to tell the truth, but just couldn't. I feel bad for the guy, but it was a shitty situation all around.

Want to blame someone, blame Scratch! Fucking Pippin volunteered for the position of rat!

[Osiris]

Do not worry about the Datu thing. Kalani puts Datu's favorite CD in and turns up the radio. When the duo gets a call about it, Datu could say something, I never heard an alarm, did you? Kalani says No, i didn't it must have happened shortly after we left.


I guess Datu is some sort of high functioning autistic person whose brain completely shuts down when his favourite song comes on? Sorry, but even when I'm stoned so bad that I see talking fish I still know who is around me and who isn't, no matter what song is on the radio. It also isn't hard to figure out a time line of events. Without question Datu knows how long his favourite CD runs and probably has a strong grasp of the running time of his favourite songs on it.

"That shit happened at ten after one. Where were you?"
"I was in the underground."
"You went down there at one. What were you still doing down that at ten after?"
"Listening to Justin Beiber and waiting for Kalani to come ba--oh shiiiiiiiiiiiit he stole dat shit from dur BURRRRRRRRRRT."

Case le closed.

Granted not that simple or even close to accurate. Character names may be right though. I think. Anyway, the point I'm making is that if Datu really did blank out on who wasn't around him and for how long--while preparing to head out on a mission--during a zombie apocalypse... he is truly too stupid to live. OR, he's attached to Scratch or possibly Durai in some way. Then again, he may not be in league with any of them and Datu simply bonded with Kalani over their time together at the Stadium.

That could even be where Kalani first approached Datu for help. Never forget that the history of the story is written and not actually witnessed. From that point of view, it's all very subjective and Datu's account of what actually went down at the Stadium could contain omissions that would have betrayed Kalani. I'm not saying definitively that Datu is one of the Mallers, but he may have been trying to protect Kalani until they could figure out a way to get his daughter back.

'Hey Datu... you know how you felt about Samantha?'
'Yeah.'
'I feel the same way about my daughter.'
'.....'
'Not in a I-wanna-hit-that sort of way, ew... no I mean how much I love her and would do anything to have her back.'
'I knew that.'
'Will you help me?'
'Of course! I'm Datu! Plus nobody really pays much attention to what I do anyway.'

[Eviebae]

I got your point the first time around. I was piggy backing. Perhaps you should be less concerned with me 'getting it' and just roll with what happens.

I know you are, but what am I :p Pbbbbbbt!

Seriously, though, I think Kalani handled it as well or better than most people. Heat of the moment and all that.

Datu's not military and he blissed out for a minute. Perhaps the joyful moments are so brief, they are way more powerful and absorbing. It made sense to me motivation-wise

[Grognaurd]

You might be right. What we have is conjecture and opinions. I just think the alarm is not all that loud. The characters are able to speak over it without having to raise their voice.

Datu might not even be in the building at time. At best, he is in the carport. Datu, is pretty easily distracted. He certainly did not cause all those accidents because of his powers of perception.

[Osiris]

First of all welcome to the forums.
Kalani did mishandle the situation in so many ways. If he had told the Tower folks about what had happened to him in the first place they most likely would have helped him. But he has also just met these people and had no idea what they were like.


I think he rolled with it exactly the way I would have. Going into a situation where you don't know any of these people, with the stakes that you have in that particular hand... no, telling a bunch of strangers why he was there in the hopes that they wouldn't a) kill him or b) toss his ass to the curb, would have been the dumbest move he could have made aside from walking in with a gun and saying 'Nobody move! This is a robbery!' It's easy for us to say he could have just asked and the Tower folks would have helped, because we're on that side of the fence already.

No, I think Kalani handled that situation the only way he could. He played his hand close to the chest and did what he had to do in order to ensure his daughter's safety. Some call that selfish. I call that realistic.

Though I do agree with the rest of what you say. And it sort of makes sense if you consider for a moment that perhaps Datu knew what Kalani was doing there and the two of them were trying to figure out a way to get Hannah back on their own.

[Osiris]

You might be right. What we have is conjecture and opinions. I just think the alarm is not all that loud. The characters are able to speak over it without having to raise their voice.

Datu might not even be in the building at time. At best, he is in the carport. Datu, is pretty easily distracted. He certainly did not cause all those accidents because of his powers of perception.

True. Datu certainly has been painted as a fucktard since coming aboard.

[Osiris]

I know you are, but what am I :p Pbbbbbbt!

Seriously, though, I think Kalani handled it as well or better than most people. Heat of the moment and all that.

Datu's not military and he blissed out for a minute. Perhaps the joyful moments are so brief, they are way more powerful and absorbing. It made sense to me motivation-wise

I'm not military and I have no trouble at all keeping track of who is around me and for how long. I don't believe that's the reason why.

[loydmilligan]

Bah, I have to spread the Rep before I can hook you up again, but agreed! I think it must have been a difficult position Kalani was in. Knowing what we know about the tower members, it is easy to say K-man should have told Michael about Hannah and his relation to the Mallers. Shit, Michael's smart, they could have used K-man as a double agent! But unfortunately for everyone, Kalani didn't know much about Michael and the Tower. The Tower was in a shite situation at the time Kalani showed up, so he saw them bickering with each other and stealing from each other. Not a good impression. So, he felt the best thing he could do, the only thing he could do to get his daughter back safely, was to play ball with the Mallers.

After the war, he saw the aftermath and probably shoulded a lot of guilt, especially after seeing Tommy's corpse and realizing that his daughter was only a few years older than the young man. Letting the Mallers think he was dead would have bought him some time to come up with some kind of plan. Hell, in the number of times I have listened to We're Alive, I came across a point where I sometimes felt Kalani wanted to tell the truth, but just couldn't. I feel bad for the guy, but it was a shitty situation all around.

Want to blame someone, blame Scratch! Fucking Pippin volunteered for the position of rat!

Your point about Kalani after the War is a good one. He does take note of Tommy's age and I am sure that would put a real face to all the damage he had caused.

I still do not understand why he did not try and get some confirmation from the Mallers about Hannah's well being...however, I suppose that can be attributed to fear.

Some interesting ideas about Datu, perhaps he was "in" on the killing of Pippin, though I think if he were, then Kalani would have said so in his journal. More than likely he was just being careless (or a bit stupid) with his vouching for Kalani. And I do think it says something about Michael's sharpness that he was not able to notice the inconsistency in Datu's story with his own personal experience.

[Osiris]

Your point about Kalani after the War is a good one. He does take note of Tommy's age and I am sure that would put a real face to all the damage he had caused.

I still do not understand why he did not try and get some confirmation from the Mallers about Hannah's well being...however, I suppose that can be attributed to fear.

Some interesting ideas about Datu, perhaps he was "in" on the killing of Pippin, though I think if he were, then Kalani would have said so in his journal. More than likely he was just being careless (or a bit stupid) with his vouching for Kalani. And I do think it says something about Michael's sharpness that he was not able to notice the inconsistency in Datu's story with his own personal experience.

Kalani wasn't a dirtbag though. He wouldn't have named Datu.

[Zombiphobe]

I just think the alarm is not all that loud. The characters are able to speak over it without having to raise their voice.

I remember when Michael and crew got back from rescuing Datu from the Arena, Pinstripes had broken in and the alarm was going off. However, it was barely audible to them on the street level. I can't imagine you could hear it any better in the garage.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Kalani shot the radio for a reason. He had enough good sense and intelligence to know that if Michael couldn't contact them, Datu couldn't know when Pippin's killing took place. He would assume they left long before it occured.

Then Kalani had Burt and Saul "radio" the tower so they could be the one's who learned the radio wasn't working. It was he could say, "Oh, I didn't even know something was wrong. Datu and I left and everything was peachy."

Michael did kind of drop the ball though. Kalani had just given him a status report a couple of minutes before the murder. It sucks that he quickly eliminated Kalani from the list of suspects. His confidence that Datu and Kalani were innocent even convinced me! I actually had Kelly pegged as the shooter. Way to go Michael. If I didn't know better, I'd also believe that Saul, Victor, and Lizzy were dead!

Sarge needs some rest. His brain hasn't been right for a while now.

[Hellbringer]

I remember when Michael and crew got back from rescuing Datu from the Arena, Pinstripes had broken in and the alarm was going off. However, it was barely audible to them on the street level. I can't imagine you could hear it any better in the garage.

I totally agree. Datu was in the basement, not near the alram speaker. Being in the basement of any place makes it hard to hear anything unless someone specifically puts a speaker system down there.

[Osiris]

I totally agree. Datu was in the basement, not near the alram speaker. Being in the basement of any place makes it hard to hear anything unless someone specifically puts a speaker system down there.

Where you going with that?

[Hellbringer]

Where you going with that?


I don't think Datu would've heard the alarm system where he was at. By basement, I meant garage.

[Osiris]

I don't think Datu would've heard the alarm system where he was at. By basement, I meant garage.

Going further to support the theory of the D/K Connection.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I'm not convinced that Kalani's final journal entry counts as a Last Dying Breath. In my opinion, we are in store for some more deaths. I still say Riley is on the Chopping block. Puck could call Michael and the gang over to the WEED and say, "Look, our doc did everything he could, but the fact is, your friend is fucked. She got scratched by one of those things and there's nothing we could do. We're going to have to put her down. Do you and your friends want to talk to her while she's still in the right mind?"

Either that or Scratch found Angel or Kalani after the tower collapsed. The story will cut over to the Mallers and we'll hear a severely mangled and burned Kalani have final words with his daughter. In his last dying breath, he'll say, "Fuck you Scratch." Or it will be Angel who is all jacked up and twisted like a pretzel and his final words will be, "Oh god! What the fu-...is that my foot? Why is my foot resting on my chest? Oh Jesus, Mary, and ....some other guy!"

Jokes aside, I do think we could hear something to that effect in this chapter. Or at least I hope we do.

[reaper239]

I'm not convinced that Kalani's final journal entry counts as a Last Dying Breath. In my opinion, we are in store for some more deaths. I still say Riley is on the Chopping block. Puck could call Michael and the gang over to the WEED and say, "Look, our doc did everything he could, but the fact is, your friend is fucked. She got scratched by one of those things and there's nothing we could do. We're going to have to put her down. Do you and your friends want to talk to her while she's still in the right mind?"

Either that or Scratch found Angel or Kalani after the tower collapsed. The story will cut over to the Mallers and we'll hear a severely mangled and burned Kalani have final words with his daughter. In his last dying breath, he'll say, "Fuck you Scratch." Or it will be Angel who is all jacked up and twisted like a pretzel and his final words will be, "Oh god! What the fu-...is that my foot? Why is my foot resting on my chest? Oh Jesus, Mary, and ....some other guy!"

Jokes aside, I do think we could hear something to that effect in this chapter. Or at least I hope we do.

agreed, it's only part 1 after all.

[Ray]

I don't care what Kalani's motivations were, he got what he deserved. He should have suffered for what he did, saving everyone by flying the helicopter into the rig coming at the tower was nobile, but he deserved to die. He's completely responsible for everyone that died in the tower since the Mallers showed up. Everyone's blood is on his and Bill's hands. Bill deserved to die as well, had their treachery been known before now I would have shot them both. Shoved them out the door and shot them in the back. In my mind, they neither can ever be forgiven for what they did. Kalani had the audacity to insult and belittle everyone, especially the main three, over how things were playing out in the tower. He even compared them to the place he came from and if I remember correctly, they were all dead and the Tower guys had the exact same thing happen to them and they all survived the encounter with only one death. They were MUCH less fortified than the place Kalani came from and still came out smelling like a rose. The only, ONLY, reason they fell and most were killed was because of Kalani and Bill. Screw them both, it's just a shame they weren't turned and the Tower residents didn't get to fill them full of holes. They killed almost 30 people because of paranoia and selfishness. I can't wait to hear the rest of this chapter!

[IamPaul]

Yea. This episode made me really dislike Kalani again and Bill. Kalani just sounded so arrogant. You would think there'd be some gratitude for the Tower after they saved him. I am not sure where this chapter is going to go. I remember there being 2 journals. Maybe Michael got to the end of the first one, and Kc is just toying with our hearts and it is continued in the other one. We shall see. I can't imagine Last Dying Breath is just about Kalani.

[Eviebae]

I'm not convinced that Kalani's final journal entry counts as a Last Dying Breath.
Do you think it's a literal "last dying breath" or a more abstract "I'll defend you to my last dying breath."?

The cover art looks like someone (I believe it's Saul) with a (flight?) mask, a machine gun and tanks (my guess is they are full of breathing air) .

(btw, how horrible are the flattened remains on the road?)

If you blow up the reflection; I see some electrical towers, what looks like a helicopter (or a giant shoe) and some figures. One figure looks like it's waving or holding its arms up and the other looks hunched over like a zombie or someone on unsteady ground.

I wonder if that's ground zero?

[IamPaul]

Do you think it's a literal "last dying breath" or a more abstract "I'll defend you to my last dying breath."?

The cover art looks like someone (I believe it's Saul) with a (flight?) mask, a machine gun and tanks (my guess is they are full of breathing air) .

(btw, how horrible are the flattened remains on the road?)

If you blow up the reflection; I see some electrical towers, what looks like a helicopter (or a giant shoe) and some figures. One figure looks like it's waving or holding its arms up and the other looks hunched over like a zombie or someone on unsteady ground.

I wonder if that's ground zero?

Maybe it is Angel and Burt?

[Osiris]

It's possible that the dying breath will be exhaled by CJ, or Victor, for that matter. I like IAmPaul's idea of it possibly being a reference to a last stand--possibly between Victor, Saul, CJ and a Maller Death Squad. How that might happen is a little... let's just say, I think they have more pressing concerns than going after Saul and Victor. Their numbers are fast dwindling, as are their resources.

I'm hopeful that dying breath will begin a recounting of Angel's narrow escape from the icy fingers of death--again. I believe it's possible he was blown from the Tower rooftop to the second landing site in the RPG blast. It's reaching, I'll admit that much, I just can't think of a better, more exciting way for him to survive. Other than surfing the building as it collapses.

[Grognaurd]

Episode

Not a flight mask. That is a Scott pack. Much like the type that firefighters wear. You can also see the air tank on his back. He does not have the M16. But, I do not know enough about military weapons to tell if what he has is the SAW or .50 cal

I am also not sure if that weak vertical shown in the mask is a continuation of the flare or one of the towers

[Grognaurd]

Scratch's assault occurred to the north of the tower. The second landing site was to the south. So, like ossiris, I do think it there is a way for angel to live, but I think he had to repel down with what is left of Burt's rope.

I will suspend disbelief and accept the rope burned. But air is not a great conductor of heat and it's heat capacity sucks. If this was real life and not we're alive, I would be thinking cut. Not burned. But I do not think angel could be that evil. Besides, if I did promote it, I think Ra1th would hunt me down and kill me even if I am 3,000 miles away.

[VidjaGamez]

Man, so bummed I couldn't post prior to the episode on Monday. I got a little bored over the weekend and listened to some older episodes after reading something in one of the theory threads. That it had to of been more than one person, more than just Kalani. He had told Angel to grab the journal from BILL'S desk and it all hit me. He must have been working with Bill! Although as the episode proves it was more by accident and wasn't a trusting partnership at all.

Anywho! Great episode! Great because I was right! Pssh... grey area to being a rat. There's no accidents there, you either make the decision or your don't. But that's enough of that, kind of glad it's finally tied off and we can move on! :)

Osiris man! You're crazy! Lol! I think regardless of the Tower snagging one of their tankers the Mallers would have pursued them in some violent way once they noticed other people. They were going bonkers trying to access CJs tower for no other reason that I can figure, I'm sure they weren't being aggressive towards the Mallers. They pick up three plane crash survivors only to sabotage them for this insane need to get in to CJs Tower. They're a violent group of criminals, they'll stop at nothing to make sure they're on top, even it means squashing oter human lives... well then, they're going to cross some lines with no reason or rhyme.

And the whole Datu thing... Let me give you an example of how much the rest of the world doesn't exist in a car with loud music. I used to drive to and from California at least once a month, one time while heading back to Arizona I had my music blasted as usual. Due to living in a small world, a co-worker of mine was heading back from California the exact SAME time and spotted me on the highway (darn those bright orange decals). I guess at some point she pulled up next to me and honked... and honked... and laid on her horn. She even had her kids waving their hands. I didn't even notice.

At work the next day she told me and I was AMAZED that I didn't realize. So! I think it's pretty cut and dry there, Datu didn't notice. He jammed out, waiting on Kalani to let Micheal know they were leaving, of course Micheal can back that up... because Kalani told him they were leaving. Seeing as how Datu didn't realize the alarm and Micheal assuming the Kalani hoofed it to the vehicle pronto and leaving before anything happened... it just made sense to believe the entire scam. I highly doubt our sweet, doofy Datu is some sort of double agent. Lol!

[nikvoodoo]

Ok. I think we have successfully derailed this thread. Let's stop this conversation here, and continue it onwards in another location: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3091-Who-What-was-the-Cause-of-the-War-between-the-Tower-and-Mallers&p=37294#post37294

You don't have to stop the debate. Let's just move it over there. I'm going to move some of these posts over there now to get things started.

EDIT: Just to be clear (now that I've removed all the appropriate posts) the derailment was about who/what caused the war. Continue discussing the episode.

[Cabbage Patch]

...But, I do not know enough about military weapons to tell if what he has is the SAW or .50 cal

The weapon in the picture is a SAW. Does anyone know who had the SAW in Chapter 24? I know it wasn't Saul and Victor, they had the 50 Cal and M-16s. It wasn't Michael, he couldn't use it with only one arm, and Angel had an M-16. And is there any clue to be found in the left wrist being bandaged?

[Grognaurd]

Bandage. This has me wondering. Right now the only wrist bandage I can think of is Tanya for some reason. But other than acting as a mule, there is no way I want a noob with the SAW. I thought it was the saw, but it is a lot easier to place Saul with the .50 cal on the cover. Hazarding a guess, I think it is Saul and the saw comes from CJ's stores. Even if it is the saw from chapter 1 he will still need some help. I am pretty I remember Burt saying last Belt.


We know Tanya set up a pic-line. I have seen them at the elbow and the collar bone. Tanya said Saul's IV was poorly done. After a month and a poor job the skin around it probably looks as Bad as Michaels arm.

So, my best guess is it is Saul with a saw from CJ. The bandage covers his previous IV bruise or as protection for the new one.

Maybe it is the tower or the other tower or a new maller tower in his mask

[yarri]

We know Tanya set up a pic-line. I have seen them at the elbow and the collar bone. Tanya said Saul's IV was poorly done. After a month and a poor job the skin around it probably looks as Bad as Michaels arm.


Technical noted: a standard peripheral intravenous line lasts 3 days or less I don't think its the IV Saul started. A PICC line is in the upper arm in some position that it will enter a large artery going in the direction of the heart. Those with proper care can last months The ones you see in the neck are normally an IJ line or intra-jugular line those are for short term use as well. You can also see central lines those are on the chest at times.

[Osiris]

Bandage. This has me wondering. Right now the only wrist bandage I can think of is Tanya for some reason. But other than acting as a mule, there is no way I want a noob with the SAW. I thought it was the saw, but it is a lot easier to place Saul with the .50 cal on the cover. Hazarding a guess, I think it is Saul and the saw comes from CJ's stores. Even if it is the saw from chapter 1 he will still need some help. I am pretty I remember Burt saying last Belt.


We know Tanya set up a pic-line. I have seen them at the elbow and the collar bone. Tanya said Saul's IV was poorly done. After a month and a poor job the skin around it probably looks as Bad as Michaels arm.

So, my best guess is it is Saul with a saw from CJ. The bandage covers his previous IV bruise or as protection for the new one.

Maybe it is the tower or the other tower or a new maller tower in his mask

It's possible it could be Lizzy. If she was rescued (or escaped) and managed to hook up with Saul and Victor, her wrists may have needed treatment as a result of being rubbed raw from whatever she had been bound with. Seems an unlikely scenario though.

Could also be from an event we are not aware of yet; some event that takes place within the chapter that causes the injury.

[Cabbage Patch]

I re-listened to Chapter 24, but no clue who, if anyone had the SAW. There was an interesting comment from Burt that he had stashed some of the weapons at the neighboring building, where they set up the helipad, in preparation for the flight to Fort Irwin. Since there was never any time to load the supplies they might still be there, and maybe that's where the SAW was.

[shiroidenkou1994]

Realistic:kalani
Crackpot: randy

Kalani already died, foo'.

[Grognaurd]

Yarri, Tanya reprimands Saul for the poor job on the IV. I think Burt says Saul didn't trust anyone enough to help. Tanya said she would have to setup one of her own.

I agree, I do not know why the heck Saul had an IV almost a month after. He may had just one bag or no bags. So, I am clueless. I just parrotting what I heard. A true picc line is what you say and can go right to the heart. But, I thought I remember seeing emergency piccs in the arm.

But, I do not know much about medicine and bow to your judgement

[yarri]

Yarri, Tanya reprimands Saul for the poor job on the IV. I think Burt says Saul didn't trust anyone enough to help. Tanya said she would have to setup one of her own.

I agree, I do not know why the heck Saul had an IV almost a month after. He may had just one bag or no bags. So, I am clueless. I just parrotting what I heard. A true picc line is what you say and can go right to the heart. But, I thought I remember seeing emergency piccs in the arm.

But, I do not know much about medicine and bow to your judgement

Those are IVs.. a normal IV can be started in any part of the body.. hands, arms, antecubital space (crook of the elbow), feet thighs belly chest. Anyplace you can find a vein. They still only last 3 days or less. The vein clots off is normally what happens or they infiltrate. But any longer then 3 days and you can get a nasty infection. I've seen PICC's placed it requires a specially trained nurse (or doctor) to do one and normally is a 2 man job involving ultrasound and an xray to ensure placement is safe and correct before the lead wire is removed. .

LOL she did reprimand him for it as starting one one handed is really hard so I can imagine it was taped very badly. No worries Arthur I'm always happy to share.

[Eviebae]

Happy release Monday!

Speculate: Whose last dying breath is it????

As my bronchioles are currently melting due to bronchitis, it may just be me...:zombie:

:mad:Damn you Bronchioles!:mad:

[Osiris]

Kalani already died, foo'.

Until someone produces a body he's only "dead".

[Grognaurd]

Evi, I would loan you mine, buti am kinda using them now

[yarri]

Evi, I would loan you mine, buti am kinda using them now


I thought about splitting mine with her but mine are about as functional as her's are. Evi, get better soon!

[7oddisdead]

Kalani already died, foo'.

really?

Your new, so ill refrain from saying anything else...enjoy the forum

*goes back to the cave*

[Eviebae]

Evi, I would loan you mine, buti am kinda using them now

Selfish!:p



I thought about splitting mine with her but mine are about as functional as her's are. Evi, get better soon!

Damaged Bronchioles Unite!

Thanks guys for responding to my blatant plea for sympathy. This is my second case in 3 months and the worse I've ever had it. Excuse me now, I have to go hack up a lung....

[yarri]

Damaged Bronchioles Unite!

.... My Dr broke down and gave me a pneumovac!!! I spit on my non functional lungs!

[Eviebae]

My Dr broke down and gave me a pneumovac!!! I spit on my non functional lungs!

Break their phlegmy grip and bow them to your will!

I just found out that there's a bronchitis vaccine. Say what now? It's been around since the 80's and protects against one strain of flu that leads to bronchitis...What's with the bogarting of the vaccines?

[Pandora]

I have a question...Is that Martin <3 that responds first to Kalani when he calls the mallers on the radio??? It really sounds like him...wouldnt that be neat if they kinda knew each other before the arena?

Ohh shoot..no this was after arena.

[Cdmassey987]

Crazy that Kalani was the killer of Pippen. I didn't see that coming until like maybe 27 and that was only speculation. I still like him, almost even more now that he is gone...he was just protecting his child the whole time.

[Cdmassey987]

*trying to avoid spoilers* Chapter 29...OMG....Scratch...I hope she is killed...Glad there is some sanity out there. This is getting crazy!