Chapter 27- The Thirty First part 2

[nikvoodoo]

Who thinks we hear more about Kalani's journey? What about TOWTM? will michael ever gain the slightest clue about how to effectively hang out with Pegs without doing something stupid?

Part two in just over 5 hours!

[Adventureless_Hero]

I'm hoping it goes straight into Kalani's night with the Mallers. I'm very anxious to see what will happen with Hannah and Pippin. I do believe she is still alive and have a very strong suspicion that Pippin will betray Kalani and Hannah in a way most foul, dastardly, and egregious.

I'm also hoping we hear a bit more from Chinwe and any intel she might have on Pinstripes and/or especially anything pertaining to Ground Zero!

[beezball]

I agree, it would just be annoying to have Kalani's story drawn out too long. And since it is a flashback there is no need to try and split the story up between groups. Though, I like the way KC has us swtiching between what Chinwe knows, and supplementing what she doesn't with Kalani's journal.

I'm just glad for more Kevin Flood!

[nikvoodoo]

I think the chapter artwork assures that we'll have something TOWTM related. If not that's the biggest cock tease I done ever seen with this here podcasty thang.

[UndeadSweeper]

Man they are really fill up a lot of holes and it not just the concrete wall.

[UndeadSweeper]

Armory story checked
Kalani Was he the rat? checked
The people at the water placed checked
Hope checked
Hope mom's story checked

Also the suit guy roll with the Arena zombies

And then I heard about Skittles in the credit? Where was he?

[brad1]

god im listening to the podcast and its good i know skittles real name anyone else hear it?

[UndeadSweeper]

Wait the convoy that didn't come back, do we know the fate of that one. It sound familiar.....

[UndeadSweeper]

We even know Kalani full name too.

[7oddisdead]

well...this certainly puts a few pieces together..
randy!

skittles(aka: duncan?)sure sounded like him, and apparently skittles is the one who let pinstripes in, if thats the case...boy, did we have him all wrong.

the whole she-bang..awesome. more later....

[Kc]

Wait the convoy that didn't come back, do we know the fate of that one. It sound familiar.....

Chapter 5.

[UndeadSweeper]

Chapter 5.

Hmmm.. Spitballing here, but would the suit guy find out the other tower locating from this convey? Since we know that they,the convey, ran into a trap.

[7oddisdead]

yep. i think its safe to assume that some part of the other towers residents were corrections officers...why else would the mallers have to send kalani instead of one of their own? they sure seemed concerned about being recognised. shawn sounds like every prison guard ive met. especially when he escorts kalani into the tower. totally

[nikvoodoo]

Well......that happened didn't it???

Randy, Duncan......convoy......

And man....the Tower really did get lucky....If TOWTM immediately roared upon entry at the Other Tower it's a damn good thing he was playing with his food at the Tower.

[UndeadSweeper]

Well......that happened didn't it???

Randy, Duncan......convoy......

And man....the Tower really did get lucky....If TOWTM immediately roared upon entry at the Other Tower it's a damn good thing he was playing with his food at the Tower.

Yea, it was like Walking Dead last night....

I thinking he may not all the information he need for an attack. He may have know that the other tower was a fortress without many exits.

[awkwardalex]

Well uh...
In the words of Kelly: Holy Shit. Are you seeing this?

Needless to say when I heard the episode's ending music I dropped an F-bomb and scared my dog.

[Bulldog711]

OK....I had to sneak away from my desk and listen to the 2nd half in the bathroom.....hahahah

RANDY.....where do we hear about Randy? I must have missed it

[TCM Revolver]

well...this certainly puts a few pieces together..
randy!

skittles(aka: duncan?)sure sounded like him, and apparently skittles is the one who let pinstripes in, if thats the case...boy, did we have him all wrong.

the whole she-bang..awesome. more later....


lets not forget there was a Duncan at the Colony too. He was the one that had ears around his neck... *dun dun dun*

OK....I had to sneak away from my desk and listen to the 2nd half in the bathroom.....hahahah

RANDY.....where do we hear about Randy? I must have missed it

That was the name Michael was muttering as he was sedated (arm). Also "randy" was the name michael called out as the tower fell, he was trying to drag off tanya

[Bulldog711]

I know who randy is....but where do we hear about him in this episode??

[Kc]

lets not forget there was a Duncan at the Colony too. He was the one that had ears around his neck... *dun dun dun*

Thumpkin's neck. :P

[TCM Revolver]

Thumpkin's neck. :P

Damn, I thought that was just Victors accent :p.

[Bulldog711]

Wait....was Randy the guy mixing concrete w/ kalani when shaun was taking Kalani around? I love how people immediately placed Duncan as Skittles.....I would love to see the timeline/story line KC and co had drawn up, but connecting characters this far along is genius and very hard to do this consistantly....... Skittles has always been my favourite and I say BRAVO to KC for developing such characters who are seemingly small but have quite abit of depth.

[awkwardalex]

I know who randy is....but where do we hear about him in this episode??

He is mentioned in passing by Chinwe. She says something to sean along the lines of, "Randy and the others in a convoy heading to the pumping station." It's right around when Kalani meets Chinwe. It's exactly at 14:05

[Kc]

He is mentioned in passing by Chinwe. She says something to sean along the lines of, "Randy and the others in a convoy heading to the pumping station." It's right around when Kalani meets Chinwe. It's exactly at 14:05

That's not it Exactly, but something like that.

[Bulldog711]

"the 31st" has now been confirmed as the Kalani Chapter. This is a much needed large chunk of data for all of us....we can now start to solve some of our issues/questions we have been debating over hte past few years :) Its nice to get all of this data but I hope next episode we get to hear more backlash from the crew; SAUL/VIC and Michael and Co.....

[Adventureless_Hero]

Shaun tells Chinwe/CJ that she aught to send "Randy and the other techies" to the pumping station since they lost water pressure that morning.

Was it me or is there a little something going on between Shaun and CJ? It's like a mirror version of Michael and Pegs.

When Duncan/Skittles let Pinstripes in, did you wonder that if Samantha had stayed at her post for those last 15 minutes, would she have let Pinstripes in?

I am very happy with this episode. There was just so much information we were given! Apparently the Mallers had been over run once before. And it was interesting to see that Tardust was listening to the radio's very early on. Who is going to go through the tedious work of creating a time line? Not it!

Another reason to hate Scratch: Pippin volunteered, there was no need to hold Hannah hostage.

I wonder what kind of Radio Equipment CJ's tower had. Could Saul or Victor possibly get in touch with Ft. Irwin?

Chapter title explained: Kalani was the 31st member of CJ's tower.

[Guts Malone]

Another reason to hate Scratch: Pippin volunteered, there was no need to hold Hannah hostage.

They had to use Hannah, it was a guarantee that the Kalani would do it. Pippin probably came across as the sort that would say anything to get out of a rut.

[beezball]

So I still hate Scratch. And not in a I love to hate way either.

[UndeadSweeper]

So I still hate Scratch. And not in a I love to hate way either.

It because she a great actress, if she can get the emotion in you.

[UndeadSweeper]

Shaun tells Chinwe/CJ that she aught to send "Randy and the other techies" to the pumping station since they lost water pressure that morning.

Was it me or is there a little something going on between Shaun and CJ? It's like a mirror version of Michael and Pegs.

When Duncan/Skittles let Pinstripes in, did you wonder that if Samantha had stayed at her post for those last 15 minutes, would she have let Pinstripes in?

I am very happy with this episode. There was just so much information we were given! Apparently the Mallers had been over run once before. And it was interesting to see that Tardust was listening to the radio's very early on. Who is going to go through the tedious work of creating a time line? Not it!

Another reason to hate Scratch: Pippin volunteered, there was no need to hold Hannah hostage.

I wonder what kind of Radio Equipment CJ's tower had. Could Saul or Victor possibly get in touch with Ft. Irwin?

Chapter title explained: Kalani was the 31st member of CJ's tower.

So the the pumping station group the ones did the attempted rescue at the Arena?

[Bulldog711]

Scratch is a GREAT character.....I hate her as much as the next person, but boy is she a great villian

I would easily bet now that Kalani was the "rat" and the "shooter"......

How/why? Well I am still with Adventureless_hero on this one, Kalani got F&^k'd over by Scratch and/or Pippen. I would guess if any of us lost our Daughter we would be hell bent on revenge. So I believe that Kalani was trying to lure the mallers to the tower (michael and co) so he would have a shot at revenge. Then along came Pippen, being caputed and locked up with a blind girl was an easy way to get revenge. Then since he got to kill Pippen he saw an opportunity to do something he couldnt do before, save people he loved and yes....I think Kalani developed a strong bond with those at the tower since they were the only people to really trust and respect Kalani, albeit took them a long time to get there but they did. Again, I think Hannah died.....the quote "she WAS my Hannah" was said with such conviction that I think Kalani found out a long time ago that Hannah had died (pre-arena) and he was finally at peace with that since he was about to save the tower residents.........

[nikvoodoo]

So the the pumping station group the ones did the attempted rescue at the Arena?

We don't know who among the Other Tower attempted the rescue at the Arena. We do know it wasn't Kalani, Samantha, Hope or Sean though. It's likely that Duncan/Skittles wasn't involved either since his mind cracked.

All we can safely assume at this moment is Randy went to the Pumping Station with some "techies" and survived long enough that he could tell Michael his name....there aren't too many talkin' zombies out there and I doubt he'd sit down long enough to wax poetic with his dinner (aka Michael). So odds are, no. Randy was a part of a different plan that went awry for CJ and the Other Tower....say what you will about their organizational skills or whatever....they kept getting screwed in their execution..........Angel.....nevermind. I won't bother. :D

[beezball]

It because she a great actress, if she can get the emotion in you.

It has nothing to do with the acting, that's why I said "not in a love to hate way". I just think she is irrational and stupid and that makes her more annoying than threatening.

[Adventureless_Hero]

We don't know who among the Other Tower attempted the rescue at the Arena. We do know it wasn't Kalani, Samantha, Hope or Sean though. It's likely that Duncan/Skittles wasn't involved either since his mind cracked.

All we can safely assume at this moment is Randy went to the Pumping Station with some "techies" and survived long enough that he could tell Michael his name....there aren't too many talkin' zombies out there and I doubt he'd sit down long enough to wax poetic with his dinner (aka Michael). So odds are, no. Randy was a part of a different plan that went awry for CJ and the Other Tower....say what you will about their organizational skills or whatever....they kept getting screwed in their execution..........Angel.....nevermind. I won't bother. :D

Agreed. The team from CJ's tower that went to the Arena in an attempted rescue of Samantha, and Kalani is unknown. Randy and the techies must have been ordered out sometime between Kalani's arrival and the over running of the other tower (three days window). One caveat I'd like to issue though Nik is that we can't safely assume Randy was alive when Michael ran into him. Although it is a very likely chance Randy was alive at the time, we also have to allow for the possibility that Michael had a run in with a zombie Randy who could have been sporting a name tag; he could be a mechanic with overalls sporting his name, or even an engineer of some sort who still sports his name badge out of pride for his former job.

Though I am more inclined to believe he was alive when Michael ran into him so that we can get a bit of flashback story from Mikey later down the line.

[nikvoodoo]

Agreed. The team from CJ's tower that went to the Arena in an attempted rescue of Samantha, and Kalani is unknown. Randy and the techies must have been ordered out sometime between Kalani's arrival and the over running of the other tower (three days window). One caveat I'd like to issue though Nik is that we can't safely assume Randy was alive when Michael ran into him. Although it is a very likely chance Randy was alive at the time, we also have to allow for the possibility that Michael had a run in with a zombie Randy who could have been sporting a name tag; he could be a mechanic with overalls sporting his name, or even an engineer of some sort who still sports his name badge out of pride for his former job.

Though I am more inclined to believe he was alive when Michael ran into him so that we can get a bit of flashback story from Mikey later down the line.

Don't you be using logic and moderation against me damnit! Those are my weapons!! ;)

True, Randy could have worn overalls with his name on them.....I also could be Kc's long lost twin brother. Anything is possible....just not all that likely.

This chapter is wrapping one hell of a neat bow around some of the many many questions we've had and it's really kind of awesome. We've met Cj. We're in the Other Tower. We're discovering Kalani's entire backstory. We're going to get a strong understanding of why Pippin ended up eating two slugs....(I hope we relive that.....)....Time to update that unanswered questions wiki page I doth think!

[cupcakezombie]

Whoa, that was amazing.
So much to process on the first listen.
Poor Skittles. I imagine that my mind would crack as well if I let in the thing that ate all my friends. He seems to have selective memory of that when the tells the story later.
I am assuming we are somewhere around the time between Saul, Lizzy and Burt's run to the tanker (Lady and the Tink) and the run to the water tower (Where Do You Go When You Sleep), which does fit with everything we know from Samantha and Kalani. Probably closer to Lady and the Tink as they were at the Arena for a little while.

Hmmm last thought. I wonder if Skittles was part of the rescue mission?

[UndeadSweeper]

We don't know who among the Other Tower attempted the rescue at the Arena. We do know it wasn't Kalani, Samantha, Hope or Sean though. It's likely that Duncan/Skittles wasn't involved either since his mind cracked.

All we can safely assume at this moment is Randy went to the Pumping Station with some "techies" and survived long enough that he could tell Michael his name....there aren't too many talkin' zombies out there and I doubt he'd sit down long enough to wax poetic with his dinner (aka Michael). So odds are, no. Randy was a part of a different plan that went awry for CJ and the Other Tower....say what you will about their organizational skills or whatever....they kept getting screwed in their execution..........Angel.....nevermind. I won't bother. :D

I believe the mind crack was cause after the failed mission. When he was first meet him he come from the opposite direction of the Arena and refuse to go back that way because what happen to his friends. Beside he only a little crack because how many people could survive as along he has.

Btw, has anyone figure who the pocket map guys?

Also, NiKvoodoo will be eat some crow on the next WND podcast? ;-)

[HardKor]

Wow, great episode. I'm not sure what else I can add to what's already been said except that I'm pretty sure the chapter artwork is a reference to ol' Pinstripes breaking in to the Other Tower. Because I doubt any new "real time" information is going to pop up in this chapter since part three will probably be the details of Kalani's time in the Arena through the The War. And that's gonna tell us definitively whether or not Kalani's the rat (it looks pretty certain that he is, because he probably got in touch with the Maller's to check in on Hannah, but there's still room for a shocking twist).

[nikvoodoo]

Also, NiKvoodoo will be eat some crow on the next WND podcast? ;-)

I'm not eating crow yet. There's the chance that Kalani accidentally sold the Tower out still. If it's on accident, I don't call that a rat. I call that a distraught father trying to get his daughter back. Very very few people (if anyone at all) has claimed it was done on accident. We all assumed it was a willful act of betrayal.

[Eviebae]

[QUOTE=nikvoodoo;35724 We all assumed it was a willful act of betrayal.[/QUOTE]

Actually, I thought it might have been an accidental overhearing (which is not the case) since at one point the Mallers talked about having so many radios. If he did get in touch with the Maller's, I wonder if he knew that his daughter was still alive or thought she was dead.

I also thought Pippin was the one that had a relative being held by the Mallers. Missed it by that much....

[Litmaster]

Great episode! Again we have more questions answered than asked. Kc, are you feeling ok?


Duncan (aka Skittles) crack-up
He must have lost it because he was responsible for letting Ink in to bust up the joint. I don't think it was intentional, or that Duncan/Skittles is a bad guy. Rather, it seems he just f'ed up and mistook old Pinstripes for one of the tower guys. He went crazy out of self-blame and guilt for destroying the tower. Speaking of self-blame and guilt...

Michael, Randy, and the Water Works
Anyone else think it strange that Michael has met some people from the other tower and has just failed to mention that to his comrades? Because he didn't know where they were from? Why wouldn't he know?
A. They met briefly but were nebulous about their origin.
B. They met briefly and had no time to talk history.
C. They had already died / turned by the time Mike found them (this would be Nik's monogrammed 'Randy' on the overalls thing)

Of these, option B seems most likely to me. There was, after all, a Behemoth stomping around at the time, right? Not much time to exchange pleasantries with a new acquaintance when you're running for your life. So then why wouldn't Michael mention meeting Randy to the others? Here is what I think happened:

Litmaster's Water Works Theory of Events
1. Randy and a few guys went to the water works to investigate the low pressure.
2. They manage to get the water back on, but are hit by Zombiezilla soon after that, who rips the door off and kills with abandon...
3. All are killed or 'turned' with the exception of Randy, who manages to hide out in some hidden nook of the water works. He finds himself trapped there, trying to figure out a way to escape past Zombiezilla.
4. A few days days later, Michael, Angel, Datu and Riley show up and find the bodies and the 'turned' zombie, whom they kill.
5. Then comes The Return of Zombiezilla, and all our people escape out the side door except Michael, who is stuck inside.
6. Mike is stuck in the steamroom with Zombiezilla, whose senses are dulled by the steam. Mike flounders his way to Randy's hidden nook.
7. They briefly hide together, speak just long enough to exchange names, then Mike says they should try and wait Zombiezilla out...
8. ...but he doesn't realize that Behemoth's have the patience of a mountain. Randy tells him he's been there for days and the monster shows no signs of leaving. They make a hasty, desperate plan of escape.
9. Maybe the plan involves distracting Zombiezilla with making a noise in one direction, then running in the other direction.
10. Their bold plan barely works, for Michael is able to escape through the narrow exit, with Randy pulling the door open for him.
11. But only Mike makes it through, for Randy is snatched right after Mike makes it through the door. Mike tries to reach for him, but has his arm slammed in the door, thus breaking it.

So why not tell the other guys about meeting Randy at the water works? Well, perhaps Michael thought it a moot point, given that Randy died soon after meeting him and didn't reveal any new/useful information. However, Michael's feverish dreams at the Colony, duplicity about his leadership ability, and overall high-strung irritability suggest something much more shameful: What if Michael screwed Randy over at the water works, in effect sacrificing Randy to the zombies in order to save his own ass?

This would explain a lot about Michael's attitude, and it would be a very understandable human reaction in a crisis situation, if not a heroic one. Maybe he is chewing himself up inside every time someone calls him a hero or a great leader or something, inwardly hating himself for being a hypocrite the whole time? In this case, he certainly would not want to discuss the issue about meeting some guy a the water pumping station, now would he?


Another unanswered question is
- How did Sean end up at the colony if he had a thing going with CJ? The only explanation is that they got split up and thought each other were dead.


Coming Attractions:
-In the upcoming episodes, there is still a lot of back-story we need to get from Victor about how Sean moved in down at the Colony.
-Also, there has got to be some scenes at the Maller camp where they got overrun, the imperative to find a more secure place to live, and a lot of back-story about Ink.
-I'm sure that many of the prisoners knew Bill Roberts, so it will be interesting to see how many connections are made there.
- And we'll find out that the next time Kalani contracts the Mallers from our tower (on guard duty during R & R) that Scratch will tell him Hannah is dead. That will send him in his revenge rampage, thus grabbing his rifle and heading to the upper balconies...




So there you have it, folks. That's gotta be worth a little bit of rep, don't you think? Come on, you tightwads!



[**WARNING: SUCH SHAMELESS REP-SOLICITATION IS BOUND TO GET YOU BITCH-SLAPPED. SEE BELOW]

[cupcakezombie]

I'm not eating crow yet. There's the chance that Kalani accidentally sold the Tower out still. If it's on accident, I don't call that a rat. I call that a distraught father trying to get his daughter back. Very very few people (if anyone at all) has claimed it was done on accident. We all assumed it was a willful act of betrayal.

I called Kalani the rat, but I never thought about the reasoning behind it until "That's my Hannah". From there I was happy that it was an accident, because he went down in a blaze of glory for the Tower.
My main thought was as to who it was.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I still say that even if he is blackmailed he is intentionally being a rat. He could have made the decision to come clean and work as a double agent for the tower. Hell, Michael and the rest would have surely come up with a plan to get Hannah back.

[nikvoodoo]

I still say that even if he is blackmailed he is intentionally being a rat. He could have made the decision to come clean and work as a double agent for the tower. Hell, Michael and the rest would have surely come up with a plan to get Hannah back.

Hell....at this point I don't care. I just along for the ride!




So there you have it, folks. That's gotta be worth a little bit of rep, don't you think? Come on, you tightwads!

you aren't the first, and you won't be the last but I'm pickin' on you: requesting rep is uncouth. It's nearly a guaranteed way to get a negative rep from me at least. Let your posts do the talking!

[Kc]

Great episode! Again we have more questions answered than asked. Kc, are you feeling ok?


Just getting over a bad cold/sinus infection. But I'm feeling better now. Thanks for asking!

[abayarts]

Man, when I listened to this episode all I can think of is how can LOST not do this? KC basically connected a lot of events in a single episode. I know LOST is a tv series, but they had dozens of writers and KC easily connected characters stories with no problem. Enough LOST talk. Great episode and love how Saul interrupted the story while CJ was talking. haha.:peeps:

[Kc]

and love how Saul interrupted the story while CJ was talking. haha.:peeps:
I thought they would interrupt her several times, I mean, who wouldn't. So I had to add in the "Don't interrupt me again"

[Litmaster]

you aren't the first, and you won't be the last but I'm pickin' on you: requesting rep is uncouth. It's nearly a guaranteed way to get a negative rep from me at least. Let your posts do the talking!

Nik, you're right. I have been a shameless rep-monger... It was a classless move and I'm rightfully bitch-slapped for stooping to such depths.

But damn, man! Have some pity on a brutha! I'm just a little one-bar peon trying to get a little rep in my ol' tin cup! And I wouldn't have to BEG if more people were actually using the reputation system like they should!

"What reputation system," you say? Never heard of such a thing? Well, check it out at:
http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?1619-The-Reputation-System


THE REPUTATION SYSTEM: "USE IT, DON'T ABUSE IT... OR GET BITCH-SLAPPED BY NIK."

[THIS PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT BROUGHT TO YOU BY NIKVOODOO AND THE REPUTATION SYSTEM.]

[nikvoodoo]

Nik, you're right. I have been a shameless rep-monger... It was a classless move and I'm rightfully bitch-slapped for stooping to such depths.

But damn, man! Have some pity on a brutha! I'm just a little one-bar peon trying to get a little rep in my ol' tin cup! And I wouldn't have to BEG if more people were actually using the reputation system like they should!

"What reputation system," you say? Never heard of such a thing? Well, check it out at:
http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?1619-The-Reputation-System


THE REPUTATION SYSTEM: "USE IT, DON'T ABUSE IT... OR GET BITCH-SLAPPED BY NIK."

[THIS PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT BROUGHT TO YOU BY NIKVOODOO AND THE REPUTATION SYSTEM.]

Damn panhandlers.....always changing their message....;)

And I thank you for the reminder. I sometimes feel like I'm screaming to the empty night air when I bump that thread.

[Bray]

Absolutely loved the episode! Many questions answered. And love the Duncan - Skittles link. Deffo sound the same!

Can't wait for next week, just like always, counting down those pesky days and hours.

[Raven]

I probably missed this on the thread if someone else brought it up but I still think Randy was a slow turner who helped Micheal in the water works. He was already infected and knew the end result but had to stay on his mission anyway. He ends up running into Micheal as the last of his humanity is fading and helps save Micheal like he was unable to help his other friends..... Tragic :)

[Pikepaw]

Ok I spent all day thinking about Skittles. I didn't initially recognize Bob Bergen's voice until Michael Swain listed him in the credits. On my re-listen I picked up that Bergen was voicing Duncan. It's tricky because Skittles odd pattern of speaking and usual nervousness really affects how his voice sounds.

It wasn't exactly a mystery that Skittles came from the other Tower, Michael put it together in Chapter 11. His true name, Duncan, caught me off guard. The PTSD is making more sense to me. Duncan let in The One With The Markings, I'm assuming mistakenly, and thus holds himself responsible for all of the deaths that happened because of that. The burden of guilt, plus the sheer fear trauma, is what terrifies Skittles when Kalani even mentions the word tower. He also seems to have experienced some sort of amnesia. It is not confirmed or denied that Skittles forgot his birth name or just refused to tell Angel, but he went back to reserve base looking for a gun when he had been with the group that had already been there and cleared out the armoury. He should have known there were no guns left at the base, but he went anyways, because he doesn't remember.

It is not hard evidence, since Skittles mentions remembering Kalani too. I don't think he is full blank slate amnesia, but the memories of who he was as Duncan are definitely muddled and with the exception of the most horrific parts, he can't recollect them very well.

Also boo to anyone who thought Skittles was born crazy, I knew that he had been relatively normal before extreme trauma addled him.

So excited for part 3!

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

ARRRRGHHHHH!!

I have spit in my eye. For those of you who've been here for a good while, you know that I've said (over and over and over) that the mallers were the ones who cleaned out the National Guard armory.. oh how KC likes to give it to me with both barrels.

in my own defense (hahah) my theory was pretty sound at the time.. lack of knowledge about the other Tower. *did you guys buy that?*

Anyway, when looking at the map, you had to wonder how one group was ranging across all points of the compass. From what we've gathered in the last two episodes, Tower 1 and the Mallers have been competing for resources since the very start.

The Prisoners vs Prison staff theory is sounding better and better. Why? simply because of the timeline. Tower 2 came late into the game basically. The mallers and "Guards" looks to have all started recruiting and building at the same time with the same ferocity and mentalities. If the prisoners got out, then the staff had to have bugged out earlier.
In the middle of all this is Tower 2, who's residents are just happy to have a place to poop in peace and everything else is an after thought.

I think it's time to take a harder look at the timeline and place the locations/actions of our 3 groups.

[UndeadSweeper]

Just getting over a bad cold/sinus infection. But I'm feeling better now. Thanks for asking!

Infection you said?! I understand you are the Writer/Director, but *loading crossbow* we can't have any turners in this tower. :cool:

jk Hope it goes away quickly. Get better. :)

[nikvoodoo]

In the same vein as what Crowbar was getting at: Did you notice that Kalani said the convoy arrived "just as planned/scheduled" or whatever. I said it earlier, and I'll bring it back up now: The other Tower was really well organized, but they are totally fucked in their execution. They had a set route, set schedule and it not only resulted in Kalani infiltrating their home, but it allowed TOWTM to ambush their other convoy and demolish them.

A really long time ago I mentioned how the zombies attacked the threats to them first. The Other Tower was a definite threat. And the Mallers were easy prey (being in an open mall). The Tower was a perfect combination of size, and ambition to survive without too much notice. The Mallers and Other Tower obviously knew about each other quickly. The Tower survived unscathed for a much longer period of time.

[UndeadSweeper]

In the same vein as what Crowbar was getting at: Did you notice that Kalani said the convoy arrived "just as planned/scheduled" or whatever. I said it earlier, and I'll bring it back up now: The other Tower was really well organized, but they are totally fucked in their execution. They had a set route, set schedule and it not only resulted in Kalani infiltrating their home, but it allowed TOWTM to ambush their other convoy and demolish them.

A really long time ago I mentioned how the zombies attacked the threats to them first. The Other Tower was a definite threat. And the Mallers were easy prey (being in an open mall). The Tower was a perfect combination of size, and ambition to survive without too much notice. The Mallers and Other Tower obviously knew about each other quickly. The Tower survived unscathed for a much longer period of time.

Hi Nikvoodoo, I think you have it backward. The Conveys were the reason why the other tower was invaded. I don't think we give the pinstripe enough credit. We know he smart and they are organize and able to plan. Only the people in convey would know the locate of the other tower. Either the other tower has a rat that talking to zombie, unlikely, or they could extract the locate from a maps carry by the convey or force someone to talk. We already know that they have fun with prey. So why would they torture them for information as well?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Sweeper,

The convoys signal movement. Our smart z's watched and learned as did the Mallers. When you don't vary your routine, you become predictible. First rule they teach you in Anti-Terrorism/Force Protection. 2nd thing is: Become a hard target. Make the enemy look for a "softer" aka weaker target. Leave at a different time, take different routes...

In this case, it didn't matter. They'd already been scouted by both sets of antagonists.

The first couple convoys and search teams had either been picked off by the infected or the mallers. We know they lost a couple and that the last one was most def beset upon by Pinstripe and crew.

Tower 2 survived longer because they had less people and moved around sporadically. Thus making them harder to track. They sent teams out in 3s and 4's instead of a larger group.
Normally larger numbers means better security (safety in numbers and all that) but it also means you can only move as fast as the slowest person or vehicle.
T2's smaller teams were able to get out and get back quickly with varied routes. They flew under the radar for a good while until Saul led Scratch and Latch to them.

My one question now is this:
Since the Mallers knew when and where Tower 1 folks would pick up Kalani... how come they didn't know WHERE T1 was and just use it instead of trying to get into T2?
You can't lead me to believe they didn't know the location of T1 if they knew most everything else.

Nik.. talking about poor execution:
Tower 1.. Chinwe and Shaun keeping the weapons in a different part of the tower instead of letting everyone carry. Stupid.
Number one rule of guns is: have one on you.
That is why they fell.

Tower 2 residents were all armed or most were. So, even though it wasn't nearly as fortified, it was harder to take because of the readiness of weapons.

[UndeadSweeper]

Sweeper,

The convoys signal movement. Our smart z's watched and learned as did the Mallers. When you don't vary your routine, you become predictible. First rule they teach you in Anti-Terrorism/Force Protection. 2nd thing is: Become a hard target. Make the enemy look for a "softer" aka weaker target. Leave at a different time, take different routes...

In this case, it didn't matter. They'd already been scouted by both sets of antagonists.

The first couple convoys and search teams had either been picked off by the infected or the mallers. We know they lost a couple and that the last one was most def beset upon by Pinstripe and crew.

Tower 2 survived longer because they had less people and moved around sporadically. Thus making them harder to track. They sent teams out in 3s and 4's instead of a larger group.
Normally larger numbers means better security (safety in numbers and all that) but it also means you can only move as fast as the slowest person or vehicle.
T2's smaller teams were able to get out and get back quickly with varied routes. They flew under the radar for a good while until Saul led Scratch and Latch to them.

My one question now is this:
Since the Mallers knew when and where Tower 1 folks would pick up Kalani... how come they didn't know WHERE T1 was and just use it instead of trying to get into T2?
You can't lead me to believe they didn't know the location of T1 if they knew most everything else.

Nik.. talking about poor execution:
Tower 1.. Chinwe and Shaun keeping the weapons in a different part of the tower instead of letting everyone carry. Stupid.
Number one rule of guns is: have one on you.
That is why they fell.

Tower 2 residents were all armed or most were. So, even though it wasn't nearly as fortified, it was harder to take because of the readiness of weapons.

I think no one really know the locate of Other tower except the pinstripe and CJ. Since would've the Maller have moved there after it fell? The got word from Kalani that it fell. The Maller when to Tower 2 since they able to locate that one.

In term of convey, I meant getting the people to talk not tracking the vehicle.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

You're messing me up with Convey and Convoy so something is getting lost in translation my friend.

Anyway, I'm assuming that since the mallers knew when and were to drop Kalani off, they would also know where the other tower is. They didn't tell him to find it, they told him they just needed more information on them.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Sweeper,

The convoys signal movement. Our smart z's watched and learned as did the Mallers. When you don't vary your routine, you become predictible. First rule they teach you in Anti-Terrorism/Force Protection. 2nd thing is: Become a hard target. Make the enemy look for a "softer" aka weaker target. Leave at a different time, take different routes...

In this case, it didn't matter. They'd already been scouted by both sets of antagonists.

The first couple convoys and search teams had either been picked off by the infected or the mallers. We know they lost a couple and that the last one was most def beset upon by Pinstripe and crew.

Tower 2 survived longer because they had less people and moved around sporadically. Thus making them harder to track. They sent teams out in 3s and 4's instead of a larger group.
Normally larger numbers means better security (safety in numbers and all that) but it also means you can only move as fast as the slowest person or vehicle.
T2's smaller teams were able to get out and get back quickly with varied routes. They flew under the radar for a good while until Saul led Scratch and Latch to them.

My one question now is this:
Since the Mallers knew when and where Tower 1 folks would pick up Kalani... how come they didn't know WHERE T1 was and just use it instead of trying to get into T2?
You can't lead me to believe they didn't know the location of T1 if they knew most everything else.

Nik.. talking about poor execution:
Tower 1.. Chinwe and Shaun keeping the weapons in a different part of the tower instead of letting everyone carry. Stupid.
Number one rule of guns is: have one on you.
That is why they fell.

Tower 2 residents were all armed or most were. So, even though it wasn't nearly as fortified, it was harder to take because of the readiness of weapons.

Burt was working his way towards letting everyone carry a gun, and that resulted in Carly and Simon trying to go it alone and that is how they wound up dead. Chinwe knew she needed strength of numbers. You saw how pissed she was when they lossed ten percent in that last convoy that got attacked (3 of their 30). She probably felt that arming everyone would lead to more desertions.

I'm thinking the reason the Mallers didn't want to go directly to CJ's Tower and claim it as thier own was because they didn't know all the variables involved; I think they had an idea of where it was but didn't know it's exact locale, yet, and I believe they were uncertain of the number of people populating CJ's tower, how well they were armed, and/or what kind of people were in it (i.e. former prison guards, police, SWAT, etc.). A good reason they attacked and wanted to claim Michael's tower is because they knew these things. They knew the exact location of his tower, approximately how many people were in it, and that all thier ammo and food supplies had been stolen (thanks to the rat). So it seemed like the better target for them.

[brad1]

i know what happened to cj's lost convoy!!!!!!!

[brad1]

anyone wanna knw?

[UndeadSweeper]

You're messing me up with Convey and Convoy so something is getting lost in translation my friend.

Anyway, I'm assuming that since the mallers knew when and were to drop Kalani off, they would also know where the other tower is. They didn't tell him to find it, they told him they just needed more information on them.

You are correct, I thought I was use convoy instead. I thought both meant the same thing just different spelling.

[UndeadSweeper]

anyone wanna knw?

One when the water pump
One was ambushed
One went to the Arena for a rescue attempted?

[Wicked Sid]

I have my new favourite line from We're Alive.

"You'd better start running." - Scratch

Great episode.

[brad1]

ill say it but am i able to say lik spoilers on here?

[DeeKay86]

Brilliant episode!!!

Kc never ceases to amaze me! Epic performance from the whole cast too!

[clem131]

It feels really good to get so many puzzle pieces. A good story - like We're Alive is - shows you bits and pieces of the background to communicate a sense of depth. What's happening in this chapter is that for a while background and foreground are switching; we see the background up close and I think it's amazingly detailed. I like it when a good story is threaded in a coherent fashion without cheap narrative devices. Seriously well written.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

ill say it but am i able to say lik spoilers on here?

Yes,
the forum is the place for spoilers (not the chat area though).

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Burt was working his way towards letting everyone carry a gun, and that resulted in Carly and Simon trying to go it alone and that is how they wound up dead. Chinwe knew she needed strength of numbers. You saw how pissed she was when they lossed ten percent in that last convoy that got attacked (3 of their 30). She probably felt that arming everyone would lead to more desertions.

I'm thinking the reason the Mallers didn't want to go directly to CJ's Tower and claim it as thier own was because they didn't know all the variables involved; I think they had an idea of where it was but didn't know it's exact locale, yet, and I believe they were uncertain of the number of people populating CJ's tower, how well they were armed, and/or what kind of people were in it (i.e. former prison guards, police, SWAT, etc.). A good reason they attacked and wanted to claim Michael's tower is because they knew these things. They knew the exact location of his tower, approximately how many people were in it, and that all thier ammo and food supplies had been stolen (thanks to the rat). So it seemed like the better target for them.

I'm with you there. Weaker target (so they thought), but they also knew the other tower was empty. "Better start run'n"

[Grognaurd]

KC said that Season 3 starts about August 2nd. July as 31 days. That is close enough to think the date of the 31st may be important to the story as well as Kalani being the 31st person.

What stil bothers me is the hatred the Mallers and The Other Tower have for eachother. Its the end of the world as we know it, 6+ million dead and the two sides waste resources spying on one another?

Convict vs. Correction officer does not seem to be enough for me. There must be a much deeper hatred.

The people found by Michael etal were fresh kills. Yet, these events take place more than two 2 weeks after The Other Tower falls.

Randy,
many people believed the connection would be through the waterworks. That is firming up. But, doesn't Michael recognize Randy as a Zombie a month later from behind?

Burt knows Scratch, I wonder if that will come out in this chapter. In the tanker recovery chapter, Burt tells Scratch Familiar Piece you got there. The operative word is Familiar. At 20 to 30 yards looking at a pistol pointed at you will not reveal enough detail for a handgun to be familiar. Recognizing a face is possible. Of all the things Scratch could have said, Lock and loaded implies she knows Burt. I am sure there is more than one gunshop in LA. The prison is all the way across LA on the coast with ground zero in the middle. Is it by chance that Latch and scracth hit Loacked and Loaded, just so KC could link the characters? Alternatively, they may hit Lock and Loaded if they knew the RPG would be there. Finally, Burt calls the guns that Latch and Scratch put down when they first visit the tower "his". No way to see serial numbers. He might be exaggerating or he might remember his customers.

Sean and Hope go to the colony. But, presumably he knows people are at the water works. Does he instruct Hope to "play" blind so she can spy for him?

Some how we have a world wide zombie out-break, but we are starting to run out of characters and groups to bring all the facts together.

I do not like Tanya. I do not trust a mother who cut all ties with her child because of shoplifting or some other way of stealing. More on her later

[Adventureless_Hero]

I'm with you there. Weaker target (so they thought), but they also knew the other tower was empty. "Better start run'n"

Agreed. This leads me to believe they didn't know exactly where the other Tower was, that and the fact that it still hasn't been raided by Mallers. Chinwe has been able to hold up in there alone. I could have sworn that in this episode we hear either Scratch, Latch or Tardust say that they don't know the location of CJ's Tower. However this does shed some light on that body with the address of the orchard on it; it could have been a Maller scouter who was keeping tabs on the convoys and anyone sighted from CJ's tower.

[Kc]

Burt knows Scratch, I wonder if that will come out in this chapter. In the tanker recovery chapter, Burt tells Scratch Familiar Piece you got there. The operative word is Familiar. At 20 to 30 yards looking at a pistol pointed at you will not reveal enough detail for a handgun to be familiar. Recognizing a face is possible. Of all the things Scratch could have said, Lock and loaded implies she knows Burt. I am sure there is more than one gunshop in LA. The prison is all the way across LA on the coast with ground zero in the middle. Is it by chance that Latch and scracth hit Loacked and Loaded, just so KC could link the characters? Alternatively, they may hit Lock and Loaded if they knew the RPG would be there. Finally, Burt calls the guns that Latch and Scratch put down when they first visit the tower "his". No way to see serial numbers. He might be exaggerating or he might remember his customers.

Latch and Scratch were some of the people who raided Burt's shop. Latch was able to get into the smaller gun safe, but not his vault. And Burt can identify more with the guns than people, especially where he was at as a person at that point in his life. Another clue is you can imagine that Scratch took the best gun from the shop for herself.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Latch and Scratch were some of the people who raided Burt's shop. Latch was able to get into the smaller gun safe, but not his vault. And Burt can identify more with the guns than people, especially where he was at as a person at that point in his life. Another clue is you can imagine that Scratch took the best gun from the shop for herself.

That was my assumption. It must have been a pretty custom piece of hardware that Burt could recognize as being one of his babies. That's how my pop is with all his Kimbers.

[Arkum]

I thought Randy was the name of someone that served with Michael? Or was that just us guessing when he yelled his name?

[nikvoodoo]

I thought Randy was the name of someone that served with Michael? Or was that just us guessing when he yelled his name?

Guessing. Someone may have assumed that for us and said it out loud in the podcast, but it was all assumptions.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Hell, I thought we'd cleared that gun and scratch thing up a while ago.
Hero,
Here's the thing, if you're doing intel or recon on an opponent and you know their routine-WHY wouldn't you know their location?
I'll have to go back and listen again. Maybe Tar only knew that info from listening to their comm??

Arthur,
what greater animosity to you need beside prisoner and jailer? POW and Kidnapper?? Soldier and Taliban? There isn't one reason why I can't think of that would cause me more hate than to be on either side of that coin. Throw in the fact that the prisoners were left there to die and you have more fuel for the fire. This is also a federal penn for the worst prisoners. It's not the county jail or Bernie Madok's prison.
About Tonya leaving Saul.. he was old enough to be left, plus wasn't he supposed to be staying with an Aunt at some time? You have to be 18 to join the military without parental consent. He's old enough to go to college, old enough to join the military.. he's old enough to be without his momma.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Hell, I thought we'd cleared that gun and scratch thing up a while ago.
Hero,
Here's the thing, if you're doing intel or recon on an opponent and you know their routine-WHY wouldn't you know their location?
I'll have to go back and listen again. Maybe Tar only knew that info from listening to their comm??

Arthur,
what greater animosity to you need beside prisoner and jailer? POW and Kidnapper?? Soldier and Taliban? There isn't one reason why I can't think of that would cause me more hate than to be on either side of that coin. Throw in the fact that the prisoners were left there to die and you have more fuel for the fire. This is also a federal penn for the worst prisoners. It's not the county jail or Bernie Madok's prison.
About Tonya leaving Saul.. he was old enough to be left, plus wasn't he supposed to be staying with an Aunt at some time? You have to be 18 to join the military without parental consent. He's old enough to go to college, old enough to join the military.. he's old enough to be without his momma.

Dammit Crow, I'm trying to listen to older chapters to work on a timeline and you go and make me drop it and listen to the most recent one. Okay, so here's what I got.

Tardust: "There's a group of people somewhere...in this (points to map) area. We know because we have seen a few of their convoys. That's the extent of it. And simply; we need to know more."

Later when Kalani contacts the Mallers amid the chaos of the zombie infiltration he tells Latch, "...they're done. Those things are inside! Everyone is dying!" Latch asks, "Where?" When Kalani fails to tell him an exact location Latch seems to get pissed off. Then Scratch takes over with her snarky remarks. Sooooo, I'm am pretty sure they didn't have an exact location pinpointed, but rather a general idea of where this tower could be.

[Litmaster]

ill say it but am i able to say lik spoilers on here? Jesus, Brad.... do you even read the thread?

Please do before you go and write some 'new' idea that's already been written by 4 other people here.

[IamPaul]

I am loving this Chapter. I get so giddy when questions are getting answered. It doesn't matter at this point, but I wonder if the Mallers ever got the two towers mixed up or had no knowledge of a second tower. I doesn't matter, but I was just thinking that today. Also, just a little nit pick that as far as I know I am the only one to think about. If I was a slave in this Zombie-fied world, I would do anything to get killed. But I have the feeling the Mallers would torture and do unimaginable things to you instead of just kill you. Cannot wait until part 3!

[Natagora]

Hey. In my opinion the Mallers can't possibly have known where CJ's Tower was exactly, otherwise after it'd been overrun surely they would've cleared it out and moved in - especially since, we think, it was more secure than our heroes tower.. right?

[cupcakezombie]

Hey. In my opinion the Mallers can't possibly have known where CJ's Tower was exactly, otherwise after it'd been overrun surely they would've cleared it out and moved in - especially since, we think, it was more secure than our heroes tower.. right?
Would you want to live in the place that was known to have been overrun by zombies, killing everyone there as far as you know?

[UndeadSweeper]

Would you want to live in the place that was known to have been overrun by zombies, killing everyone there as far as you know?

Hmmm... sound familiar to another tower I know? :) The second was almost overrun too and also withstand a human and zombie attack. If you ask them to move a more secure place then the current tower and all they need to do is look out for pin-stripe. Datu would build you a van from scratch in heartbeat to move there.

[Th3_T3ch]

OWNED! Full conformation that Kalani was the rat!!! Win for me! And my full theory was like 90% accurate........ Kc... did.... did you actually use my theory or is this a happy coincidence?

[nikvoodoo]

OWNED! Full conformation that Kalani was the rat!!! Win for me! And my full theory was like 90% accurate........ Kc... did.... did you actually use my theory or is this a happy coincidence?

Interesting that you can officially make that call when Kalani hasnt made it to the tower yet. Likely right? Yes. But until it happens in the story, it's not official. Just like it wasn't official that skittles came from the other tower until this chapter.

[7oddisdead]

I secretly hope that next chapter...kalani tries the same tactic...but, oh noes!...when does go in to call the mallers, they are already outside! Someone already called!

Its my belief that the purpose of him leaving the journal was the arrival of pippin, nothing more....

Least that's the story I'm going with, just to go against the current flow around here

[Kc]

did you actually use my theory or is this a happy coincidence?

Pfft. Like I didn't have this all planned way before Pippin arrived? When the show website was made in the first few weeks we were on the air there was even a Character page for Pippin. It confused the hell out of everyone for the longest time ;) Oh hey. Cool! I found it: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/The_Zombie_Podcast/WereAlivePippin.html

And this comment confirms nothing else. Only that this is all planned WAY in advance.

[reaper239]

Interesting that you can officially make that call when Kalani hasnt made it to the tower yet. Likely right? Yes. But until it happens in the story, it's not official. Just like it wasn't official that skittles came from the other tower until this chapter.

i thought skittles said when they first met him that he was from the other tower? or maybe not when they first met him, but i could've sworn he mentioned his origin at some point

[nikvoodoo]

i thought skittles said when they first met him that he was from the other tower? or maybe not when they first met him, but i could've sworn he mentioned his origin at some point

All he said was I saw him kill my friends. He never said where he was from. There was a popular theory (championed by me) that he was in the insane asylum with Bill Roberts indicating he was cracked before the outbreak.

We know now that isn't true.....unless Kalani and CJ are colluding about origin stories to fuck with us.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Dammit Crow, I'm trying to listen to older chapters to work on a timeline and you go and make me drop it and listen to the most recent one. Okay, so here's what I got.

Tardust: "There's a group of people somewhere...in this (points to map) area. We know because we have seen a few of their convoys. That's the extent of it. And simply; we need to know more."

Later when Kalani contacts the Mallers amid the chaos of the zombie infiltration he tells Latch, "...they're done. Those things are inside! Everyone is dying!" Latch asks, "Where?" When Kalani fails to tell him an exact location Latch seems to get pissed off. Then Scratch takes over with her snarky remarks. Sooooo, I'm am pretty sure they didn't have an exact location pinpointed, but rather a general idea of where this tower could be.


Frigg'n awesome! I hadn't had the chance to go back in and take another listen. Should have before I started talking out my neck!

[Raven]

Just to play Devil's advocate for Pippin He did volunteer not because he was a slimy sneaky person by nature ( yes he probably WAS) But when Scratch is threatening Kalani /Hannah he volunteers because Tar says we only need one....AND when Scratch says to her brother to shoot Hannah he replies "You don't have to do that." If I remember correctly He also was trying to calm a panicked Hope before the shooter offed him.
We all know KC doesn't do cookie cutter all bad guys So I just felt the need to point that out

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Break, Break!

How do we KNOW that Skits is from T1? It isn't confirmed is it? K frigg'n C threw another wrench in the machine when he said there was a Duncan at the Colony.. followed by evil music sound.

[Raven]

Quote Originally Posted by TCM Revolver View Post
lets not forget there was a Duncan at the Colony too. He was the one that had ears around his neck... *dun dun dun*
Thumpkin's neck. :P

KC already answered this about page 2 of this thread....Not same name

[mem]

I titled part 2 of 3 as "hooray we are saved !! oh $$$$ we aren't !!! More bad things are happening !!!!!" I am liking that some of the holes are getting filled in.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Just to play Devil's advocate for Pippin He did volunteer not because he was a slimy sneaky person by nature ( yes he probably WAS) But when Scratch is threatening Kalani /Hannah he volunteers because Tar says we only need one....AND when Scratch says to her brother to shoot Hannah he replies "You don't have to do that." If I remember correctly He also was trying to calm a panicked Hope before the shooter offed him.
We all know KC doesn't do cookie cutter all bad guys So I just felt the need to point that out

Raven,

I dunno...
Pipp was a sneaky bastard. He was also an ass. Remember, he ditched Kalani and Hope after they saved his bacon. I think he volunteered to go just because he's a underhanded by nature. He's a weasel type. Not violent.. just..just the kind of dude you'd punch out on the regular.

I'm still going to go down swinging by saying Kalani didn't have the motivation to be the rat for T2?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Quote Originally Posted by TCM Revolver View Post
lets not forget there was a Duncan at the Colony too. He was the one that had ears around his neck... *dun dun dun*
Thumpkin's neck. :P

KC already answered this about page 2 of this thread....Not same name

Awwww fugg it! I'm signing off. Must be sleep reading or some ish. You're right. I missed the quote thingamabob.Disregard all Crowbar posts for today. They're suspect. I need a 5 hour energy whatsit or find a nice dark and empty office to tuck myself away for an hour. Frigg'n Mass Effect 3...effect

[nikvoodoo]

Yes, Pippin was advocating for people he knew....

But he was willfully volunteering to spy on another group of people for convicts who threatened his life. I call that sleezy.

[Arkum]

Guessing. Someone may have assumed that for us and said it out loud in the podcast, but it was all assumptions.

Thanks for clearing that up. Back to being clueless and left to my own devices now.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Just to play Devil's advocate for Pippin He did volunteer not because he was a slimy sneaky person by nature ( yes he probably WAS) But when Scratch is threatening Kalani /Hannah he volunteers because Tar says we only need one....AND when Scratch says to her brother to shoot Hannah he replies "You don't have to do that." If I remember correctly He also was trying to calm a panicked Hope before the shooter offed him.
We all know KC doesn't do cookie cutter all bad guys So I just felt the need to point that out

Word. I agree that Pippin isn't as black and white a character as most of us see him, though he has shown little in the way of being a decent fellow. I do believe that in him there is a shred of humanity that would cause him to comfort someone like Hope in a scary situation. But when you look at the down right cruel way he ditched Kalani and Hannah at LAX, it's difficult recall his soothing ways with Hope. Still, if you think back to the chaos at LAX, it is much like the chaos that ensued in the Tower following the war. There we saw some of our favorite and loveable characters acting in the most self preserving and vile ways; Burt and Angel both were willing to give up on Saul to save their own bacon. Tsk, tsk fellas. Burt was guilty of this more than once; he left Saul in the hybrid at the fuel depot (granted it was a wiser and more realistic decision) and he was willing to give up on the entire Tower during the fire in which he wanted to go it alone.

I think these dire situations make those small evils within us all burn hotter. Burt can be a dick, and when desperate, he becomes a major asshole. Pippin is normally a major asshole, but when desperate he becomes a black hole of an asshole. Looking back at LAX, remember his line, "Look who I found!" when he returned with Scratch and Latch? That could have been Pippin's attempt at clinging to his humanity. He may have found Latch and Scratch and realized there was a chance to save the two people he had just ditched. He was likely the one that said, "Listen, there are two more people back there, not far from here. We can save them!" Good intention; bad outcome.

But yeah, although I feel Pippin was over all an bastard, he did still have a bit in him that made him human.

[Grognaurd]

Latch and Scratch were some of the people who raided Burt's shop. Latch was able to get into the smaller gun safe, but not his vault. And Burt can identify more with the guns than people, especially where he was at as a person at that point in his life. Another clue is you can imagine that Scratch took the best gun from the shop for herself.

KC, thanks for replying to my post. If you said Scratch raided Burt's shop, I would have no problem with it. If you did not have "special weapons Latch found..." I would not have a problem with it.

My problem is this, there is strong evidence that Scratch broke Latch and others out of the prison.

There is pretty much no way in hell that Scratch is going to go into a Maximum Security Federal Prison that is most likely in a total lockdown and free 100 inmates unless society has had a majorly collapsed. A BIGTIME, zombocolypse would work, but not vague news reports of a riot. The ripple estimates, and Michael's own experience, put the zombies hitting Bell around 11:00. Burt's store is hit about then.

Burt is a survivalist. He has all his stuff for the end of the world, but when it starts, he does not go to his store? How the hell do Latch and Scratch get to Burt's store before Burt did? Maybe there is a piece we are missing, like Burt and Raydon Labs. But, I still have problems getting Latch to Lock and Loaded first.

At 11:00, the nature of the riot is still cryptic at best. So, Eastern Bay's security will not have collapsed. Once Latch is freed, they have to go from the coast all the way to East LA either through or around Ground Zero. This occurs about the same time that 1/3 of LA and people who commute to LA for work are trying to get out in the same direction.

As Latch says it is what it is. I am not creative enough to figure out how.

[Grognaurd]

Hell, I thought we'd cleared that gun and scratch thing up a while ago.
Hero,
Here's the thing, if you're doing intel or recon on an opponent and you know their routine-WHY wouldn't you know their location?
I'll have to go back and listen again. Maybe Tar only knew that info from listening to their comm??

Arthur,

About Tonya leaving Saul.. he was old enough to be left, plus wasn't he supposed to be staying with an Aunt at some time? You have to be 18 to join the military without parental consent. He's old enough to go to college, old enough to join the military.. he's old enough to be without his momma.

RE: Saul / Tanya

Maybe it is a cultural thing. I live in a small town in WAY upstate NY. Plattsburgh. About 300 miles North of NYC and about 60 miles Southeast of Montreal. My family has literally lived within a 0.5 mile circle for more than 170 years. I am not going to say everybody knows everbody. But, I will say everybody’s kin knows someone else’s kin.

I will be talking to someone I just met only to find out that the person played football against my father or something. A parent can be pissed, but will not abandon a child in their darkest need. It is just not the way of things here. Worse, the reason she gives is that she had to go from working in a vetinary practice to working in an emergency clinic 20 miles away? Call me a conspiracy nut, but that rings of a front company for Raydon Labs offering Tanya the chance to work on the development of a drug that has the potential to be the most beneficial to humans / animals EVER! With the caveat that like working at Areaa 51, you cannot tell anyone.

[Grognaurd]

Quote Originally Posted by TCM Revolver View Post
lets not forget there was a Duncan at the Colony too. He was the one that had ears around his neck... *dun dun dun*
Thumpkin's neck. :P

KC already answered this about page 2 of this thread....Not same name

Yea and two Pucks and two hannahs. For x-mas we should get KC a random name generator 8P

[Adventureless_Hero]

Yea and two Pucks and two hannahs. For x-mas we should get KC a random name generator 8P

Two Hannahs? I know there were two Pucks (one was a nickname and the other is an actual last name) and there were two Johns (well technically, a John, aka Latch, and a Johnny, dude who recieved over 50% burns to his body during the war) but I wasn't aware of two Hannahs. And I'm not aware of too many things but I know what I know if you know what I mean. ;)

[Grognaurd]

The other hannah, like puck 1, did not have a speaking role. Nor was she even mentioned by name that I can recall.

I saw her name on the list of tower residence Hannah Morgan

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=The+Tower

[Adventureless_Hero]

The other hannah, like puck 1, did not have a speaking role. Nor was she even mentioned by name that I can recall.

I saw her name on the list of tower residence Hannah Morgan

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=The+Tower

Holy monkey butts! This is my first time seeing this list. Great job!

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

RE: Saul / Tanya

Maybe it is a cultural thing. I live in a small town in WAY upstate NY. Plattsburgh. About 300 miles North of NYC and about 60 miles Southeast of Montreal. My family has literally lived within a 0.5 mile circle for more than 170 years. I am not going to say everybody knows everbody. But, I will say everybody’s kin knows someone else’s kin.

I will be talking to someone I just met only to find out that the person played football against my father or something. A parent can be pissed, but will not abandon a child in their darkest need. It is just not the way of things here. Worse, the reason she gives is that she had to go from working in a vetinary practice to working in an emergency clinic 20 miles away? Call me a conspiracy nut, but that rings of a front company for Raydon Labs offering Tanya the chance to work on the development of a drug that has the potential to be the most beneficial to humans / animals EVER! With the caveat that like working at Areaa 51, you cannot tell anyone.

I'm still trying to figure out where you're getting this abandonment thing from. It's not like Saul was 12. He was an adult. To me that's like saying parents are wrong for changing their kids rooms into a man cave when they go to college.

[killericon]

RE: Saul / Tanya

Maybe it is a cultural thing. I live in a small town in WAY upstate NY. Plattsburgh. About 300 miles North of NYC and about 60 miles Southeast of Montreal. My family has literally lived within a 0.5 mile circle for more than 170 years. I am not going to say everybody knows everbody. But, I will say everybody’s kin knows someone else’s kin.

I will be talking to someone I just met only to find out that the person played football against my father or something. A parent can be pissed, but will not abandon a child in their darkest need. It is just not the way of things here. Worse, the reason she gives is that she had to go from working in a vetinary practice to working in an emergency clinic 20 miles away? Call me a conspiracy nut, but that rings of a front company for Raydon Labs offering Tanya the chance to work on the development of a drug that has the potential to be the most beneficial to humans / animals EVER! With the caveat that like working at Areaa 51, you cannot tell anyone.

Why wouldnt she go to work in an emergancy clinic? saul isnt a child hes a grown man and he could have found out where she was by asking her friends, alsosaul was in prison so there was nothing keeping her there and why would she go work in area 51? the ourbreak hadnt happend yet and how would she get to area 51 to the colony?

[Adventureless_Hero]

I don't see it as an abandonment issue. I mean obviously everyone feels that Saul was a grown man, and I agree. But I do take issue with the lack of communication between Saul and his mother. That isn't a good thing. When I moved out of Texas and into Michigan for a few years, you can bet your right but cheek or left nut that I called my mom, dad, and brothers several times a week.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I'm f'n retiring to Costa Rica or Belize when all my rug rats are adults. We can skype..or whatever it'll be called by then!

[reaper239]

Why wouldnt she go to work in an emergancy clinic? saul isnt a child hes a grown man and he could have found out where she was by asking her friends, alsosaul was in prison so there was nothing keeping her there and why would she go work in area 51? the ourbreak hadnt happend yet and how would she get to area 51 to the colony?

the comment wasn't meant to convey a move to the area 51, but rather a switch in employment to an area 51-esque company. the idea being that she couldn't talk about what she was doing because she was sworn to secrecy.

[Cabbage Patch]

Would you want to live in the place that was known to have been overrun by zombies, killing everyone there as far as you know?

"Our Tower" had been overrun by zombies who killed everyone prior to our heroes arriving.

[Grognaurd]

I guess I am using the wrong words or clouded with brain farts.

Yes, Saul is an adult. I have no doubt that he can take care of himself and is legally free to do so. When I moved away from home for college, I was on my own. No cash or insurance from parents. I could go back to visit, but would have to sleep on the couch. I get all of this. How many of you have children or parents that you have not spoken to for more than a few years. I know it happens. At times, there is bad blood. Sometimes it is the best option.

Saul goes to prison, Tanya blows him off. A few months after the death of >6,000,000 people and she sees her long lost son and her first response is to reprimand him for saying "shit", reprimand him for larsony and dismisses her actions of not contacting Saul because she took a new job?

It is foriegn to me. I would eat a shit sandwich and ask for seconds if it would bring my boy back. But, death is pretty much a oneway ticket.

[papparocha]

This chapter reminds me of that episode of Lost where we finally learned Richard's backstory.

[kingdatutheresourceful]

I had always been suspicious Skittles came from the other tower.

[Litmaster]

Yea and two Pucks and two hannahs. For x-mas we should get KC a random name generator 8P

HA! Amen to that!

Hey, Kc: Farquar is still available. That and about 50,000 other names you haven't yet used. I can direct you to a few baby name websites if you get stuck! :D

[VidjaGamez]

I don't know about the whole Kalani is an accidental rat... I know, jeez Krysten, get over it.

But! The theory I have going in my head at the moment... Once he and the radio were alone together (tee hee) he decided to get in to contact with the Mallers in hopes that Hannah was still alive. In hopes that maybe there was something he could still do to free her if she was alive. I mean let's be honest here, that's some intent regardless right there.

Maybe he inquired about her, maybe they said she was still alive. I'm sure at some point the Mallers get it out of Kalani that he is at The Other Tower... The tower they want. You don't just accidentally tell someone, "Yea, they're having this huge shin-dig tonight, they figured everyone needs to take a break." The same reason you don't tell someone you have 10 grand hiding under your bed.

IF.... If Kalani is the one who let the Mallers know he had to of given them details as he was more than likely being threatened with his daughters life. Maybe Hannah was made to talk over the radio, get him going, just about anyone else would spill the beans if they had to hear their daughter in anguish.

I don't know, if Kalani is indeed our rat, I just don't see how that information can just accidentally slip out. If you have that type of information and you share it with an enemy, that is intent. Just about anywhere you go though, if you're being black mailed and you give information, you're a rat... you should have withheld that information no matter what. I don't like to think there are grey areas with rats... even though there are at times.

I have to give this episode another listen though, between road rage and my co-worker talking to me I feel like I missed too much. Lol!

[cupcakezombie]

I agree. In the end even if blackmailed, he could have come to the Tower and said at some point, 'they have my daughter, oh and are listening to you over the airwaves'. In that case Michael might have been willing to set something up to get Hannah back.

[forgottenone]

New here, but wanted to add my .02 and I didn't see it mentioned yet. During one of the maller attacks on Michael et al.. Scratch makes a comment that she has two people to trade. Anyone else remember this? One maybe would be Hannah? The other Lizzy? I believe this was right before Kalaini helicopter crashed. So maybe more confirmation on who the rat is...

[nikvoodoo]

New here, but wanted to add my .02 and I didn't see it mentioned yet. During one of the maller attacks on Michael et al.. Scratch makes a comment that she has two people to trade. Anyone else remember this? One maybe would be Hannah? The other Lizzy? I believe this was right before Kalaini helicopter crashed. So maybe more confirmation on who the rat is...

Hidey hi and welcome.

I did mention it earlier in this thread that it's very possible that the second person Scratch was referring to was Hannah but we just all assumed it was Lizzy being preggers. It will also be a topic on the upcoming WND #30. I really like this as a theory because it ties into this horrible possibility that Scratch fucked with Kalani so hard that he killed himself for no reason.

Just a little hair dye is all you might need.....

Edit: I keep saying Kalani killed himself/is dead. No body, no official death. Could be that's who Scratch found after the tower collapsed. Doubtful, but possible.

[VidjaGamez]

I agree. In the end even if blackmailed, he could have come to the Tower and said at some point, 'they have my daughter, oh and are listening to you over the airwaves'. In that case Michael might have been willing to set something up to get Hannah back.
Exactly!

Sure you can argue that maybe he didn't want to bring forth this type of information for fear of how the Tower might have reacted towards him being involved with the Mallers... Their arch nemesis. But if you can't be honest, then you can't be up to any good.

So I say it again, if Kalani is the rat (who knows, things can go spiraling out of control in this story and it's someone else.) But if he is, he's a rat end of story. There is no grey, no accidental, no oopsies.

[7oddisdead]

Hidey hi and welcome.

I did mention it earlier in this thread that it's very possible that the second person Scratch was referring to was Hannah but we just all assumed it was Lizzy being preggers. It will also be a topic on the upcoming WND #30. I really like this as a theory because it ties into this horrible possibility that Scratch fucked with Kalani so hard that he killed himself for no reason.

Just a little hair dye is all you might need.....

Edit: I keep saying Kalani killed himself/is dead. No body, no official death. Could be that's who Scratch found after the tower collapsed. Doubtful, but possible.

you know, I've hated the Hannah theory since it came about, but it does unfortunately fit scratches m.o. ...but there's only one thing that just totally boogers it up in my mind.

Scratches reaction to the helicopter.

Her shock at seeing a flying heli. Implies to me that she wasn't aware of kalani being at the tower. No other reason for that reaction in my mind, so I'm torn...hannah alive theory makes sense, fits with the story,etc...but it's those few little details that...eeeeehhhh...i dunno man. And look at me! Being realistic! It happens every now and then. :)

[7oddisdead]

Exactly!

Sure you can argue that maybe he didn't want to bring forth this type of information for fear of how the Tower might have reacted towards him being involved with the Mallers... Their arch nemesis. But if you can't be honest, then you can't be up to any good.

So I say it again, if Kalani is the rat (who knows, things can go spiraling out of control in this story and it's someone else.) But if he is, he's a rat end of story. There is no grey, no accidental, no oopsies.


This make me think crazy again...so this is the chapter we learn kalanis last name. Could that imply that things are not as black and white as we have made them? Perhaps a nice shade of grey?...reading to much into it in sure, but hey....thats what I do

[Eviebae]

Okay, so here's what I don't understand: Why is Skittles still alive?

Skittles knows about Ink. He knows he's worse than the rest. So, leaving aside whether or not he is Duncan; we know he's had some sort of run in with Ink before--but he's still alive. If he was the one that opened the door for Ink, somehow he didn't get eaten even though he was right there.

Skittles is able to survive practically in the lap of the zombies--in a mentally fragile state--long enough to get thick calluses on his feet.
Does he know some secret? Do the zombies stay away from him for some reason? Is Ink just being mean by letting him live? Does he have some unique pheromone marker?

[clem131]

Saul goes to prison, Tanya blows him off. A few months after the death of >6,000,000 people and she sees her long lost son and her first response is to reprimand him for saying "shit", reprimand him for larsony and dismisses her actions of not contacting Saul because she took a new job?

It is foriegn to me. I would eat a shit sandwich and ask for seconds if it would bring my boy back. But, death is pretty much a oneway ticket.

It did not strike me as odd. Tanya is presented as a strong, no-nonsense woman from the first time we see her, and while she is very human to hope and overall a good person, her words to Michael make it clear that she has become quite a cynical in the after-zombie-apocalypse ("I don't want to know your name if something goes wrong with you" "That's nice" "That's life!"). The moment she sees Saul, she acts accordingly.

[UndeadSweeper]

Hidey hi and welcome.

I did mention it earlier in this thread that it's very possible that the second person Scratch was referring to was Hannah but we just all assumed it was Lizzy being preggers. It will also be a topic on the upcoming WND #30. I really like this as a theory because it ties into this horrible possibility that Scratch fucked with Kalani so hard that he killed himself for no reason.

Just a little hair dye is all you might need.....

Edit: I keep saying Kalani killed himself/is dead. No body, no official death. Could be that's who Scratch found after the tower collapsed. Doubtful, but possible.

I agree with you on the Kalani maybe still alive. No body was found.

Also rats are always the first to abandon ship ;0)

[Adventureless_Hero]

I am quite certain Kalani is dead. D-E-D, dead. In fact, I am willing to bet that Nik will eat crow if I am wrong.

I want to say that Scratch found Angel's mangled body. Hopefully the Mallers can keep Angel and Burt alive. I'd say their survival is much more likely than kamikaze Kalani's chances were.

Speaking of characters that might be alive, is there any chance that Markus survived the coup? What if gatekeeper bit the dust in that little skirmish?

[nikvoodoo]

I am quite certain Kalani is dead. D-E-D, dead. In fact, I am willing to bet that Nik will eat crow if I am wrong.

I want to say that Scratch found Angel's mangled body. Hopefully the Mallers can keep Angel and Burt alive. I'd say their survival is much more likely than kamikaze Kalani's chances were.

Speaking of characters that might be alive, is there any chance that Markus survived the coup? What if gatekeeper bit the dust in that little skirmish?

Again, I (in principle) believe Kalani is dead because there are very few ways he could have actually survived that crash especially without modern medicine to assist.

I agree it's likely Scratch found Angel.

And there's always a chance Marcus survived. But that's also doubtful.

[mem]

Yes, Pippin was advocating for people he knew....

But he was willfully volunteering to spy on another group of people for convicts who threatened his life. I call that sleezy.

thanks for posting this. i think the same way but couldnt think how to word it without it looking like a monkey on meth typed it

[Rombie]

Okay, so here's what I don't understand: Why is Skittles still alive?

Skittles knows about Ink. He knows he's worse than the rest. So, leaving aside whether or not he is Duncan; we know he's had some sort of run in with Ink before--but he's still alive. If he was the one that opened the door for Ink, somehow he didn't get eaten even though he was right there.

Skittles is able to survive practically in the lap of the zombies--in a mentally fragile state--long enough to get thick calluses on his feet.
Does he know some secret? Do the zombies stay away from him for some reason? Is Ink just being mean by letting him live? Does he have some unique pheromone marker?

Remebering back to the hospital when it appeared that some kind of experimenting was going on persumbly by TOWTM. We have super strong zombies, zombies jumping from building to building and now quick little zombies so i am wondering if Skittles was left alone because of his mental fragile state or "defect".
This made Skittles of little value to TOWTM so he was just left to be as Skittles was no threat.
Tanya was being carried away by Randy was it? So I am thinking maybe somehow TOWTM can pick out targets that would have a value to the "hive" or his agenda.
The bodies and parts are collected and kept, some were being eaten, but live captors were also being dragged into the "hive".
Could they be putting zombies together? This would be a reason to have a DR. that could do a better job of constructing.

[Rombie]

thanks for posting this. i think the same way but couldnt think how to word it without it looking like a monkey on meth typed it

Dont let that slow you down, look at my posts ha ha ha RAMBLE ON MY BROTHER!

[Nathan.Luiz]

Just want to make an interesting thing I discovered after recently listening to some episodes RE: Kalani. In 27-1, C.J. states that Kalani said he was the only survivor from the plane crash. On arriving at The Tower, he tells Michael 3 people survived. Why would he change his story?

[Kc]

The other hannah, like puck 1, did not have a speaking role. Nor was she even mentioned by name that I can recall.

I saw her name on the list of tower residence Hannah Morgan

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=The+Tower

*Sigh.

Well if you must know many of the survivors that lived in the tower were named after survivors from the Titanic. Since Hannah Morgan was NEVER mentioned in the series, I'm not gonna count that as a strike.

John and Johnny.... John is very common.

Puck and Puck... THAT one I will give you would have been one to name different. In fact Puck's original name was Pike. So you can have one point of three. Needless to say I won't be making that mistake again.

[nikvoodoo]

Just want to make an interesting thing I discovered after recently listening to some episodes RE: Kalani. In 27-1, C.J. states that Kalani said he was the only survivor from the plane crash. On arriving at The Tower, he tells Michael 3 people survived. Why would he change his story?

If Kalani had told the truth about 3 survivors when Sean picked him up, he'd have to explain why they weren't with him anymore. They aren't with him, so therefore he was the only survivor.

[Nathan.Luiz]

If Kalani had told the truth about 3 survivors when Sean picked him up, he'd have to explain why they weren't with him anymore. They aren't with him, so therefore he was the only survivor.
Ah, good point. But I still don't get why he didn't just tell Michael he was the only survivor also, which also brings me to the point, why didn't Michael ask him where the 2 other survivors were?

[Kc]

KC, thanks for replying to my post. If you said Scratch raided Burt's shop, I would have no problem with it. If you did not have "special weapons Latch found..." I would not have a problem with it.

My problem is this, there is strong evidence that Scratch broke Latch and others out of the prison.
The ripple estimates, and Michael's own experience, put the zombies hitting Bell around 11:00. Burt's store is hit about then.

Burt is a survivalist. He has all his stuff for the end of the world, but when it starts, he does not go to his store? How the hell do Latch and Scratch get to Burt's store before Burt did?
Fine. I'll give you more details. Some of these things are details I didn't include.

AND, I can't go into too many details as some of these things have not been talked about, and some of them may not be relivant, but yes. Burt took a while to get to his shop since after the initial outbreak. And Scratch did get Latch out of prison.

Burt's store was well secured, as you can imagine, and would have a very large security gate in place that would require someone who knew what they were doing to get in. Some random people trying to get guns would get in.

Does that help fill it in for ya?

[nikvoodoo]

Ah, good point. But I still don't get why he didn't just tell Michael he was the only survivor also, which also brings me to the point, why didn't Michael ask him where the 2 other survivors were?

After they found Kalani where they did, I doubt anyone would actually question what happened to his other friends. He also told them he came from a place that got wrecked by zombies so they probably all assumed that he was alone now. He also (if I'm remembering correctly) put it in the past tense. "There was three of us." So he implied that they were dead, and he was never pushed further on it.

As to why he did it.....your guess is as good as mine.

[Kc]

After they found Kalani where they did, I doubt anyone would actually question what happened to his other friends. He also told them he came from a place that got wrecked by zombies so they probably all assumed that he was alone now. He also (if I'm remembering correctly) put it in the past tense. "There was three of us." So he implied that they were dead, and he was never pushed further on it.

As to why he did it.....your guess is as good as mine.

They were said by him to have gone to the other tower with Kalani. Here's the quote:

-----


KALANI
They’re on every island now. At first they were just on the big island, but then somehow made it across to the smaller ones. A few of us took flight to the main airport to find a plane that could take us back to the mainland. We thought it was different here.
MICHAEL
Wait, so why didn’t you just fly from where you were?
KALANI
I was on Maui, but there wasn’t a plane big enough to make it back here. So we had to hop over to Honolulu.
MICHAEL
So someone flew you back here?
KALANI
Yes, me. Flew sightseein tours while I was there. Anyway, We landed with 10... we came down loud. Only three of us made it off the tarmac. A group of survivors found us the next day hiding in a nearby hotel, well, to tell ya the truth, we saw her out the window and ran to them. And they took us back to their place. Their tower.
MICHAEL
And where is that?
KALANI
Honestly, I don’t know this area very well. And I don’t remember seeing any street names either.
ANGEL
That doesn’t help us much.
KALANI
Wouldn’t matter anyway. It’s gone now. The place was locked down tight, but like I said before, I’m pretty sure one made it in, opened the doors and then popped the floodgates if you know what I mean.

[Kc]

Just want to make an interesting thing I discovered after recently listening to some episodes RE: Kalani. In 27-1, C.J. states that Kalani said he was the only survivor from the plane crash. On arriving at The Tower, he tells Michael 3 people survived. Why would he change his story?

He's telling a story to two different people. He tells CJ that 1 survived, she can't disprove him. He tells Michael that 3 survived and went to Cj's place. He can't disprove him, especially since that tower was over-run. The key is to only tell a lie where you can be disproved.

[Grognaurd]

Clem,

That is sorta my point. You say she may be cold and aloof after the zombocolypse. But, I think her behavior is cold and aloof even before, just the type of person one may want on some below code clinical trials.

[UndeadSweeper]

Remebering back to the hospital when it appeared that some kind of experimenting was going on persumbly by TOWTM. We have super strong zombies, zombies jumping from building to building and now quick little zombies so i am wondering if Skittles was left alone because of his mental fragile state or "defect".
This made Skittles of little value to TOWTM so he was just left to be as Skittles was no threat.
Tanya was being carried away by Randy was it? So I am thinking maybe somehow TOWTM can pick out targets that would have a value to the "hive" or his agenda.
The bodies and parts are collected and kept, some were being eaten, but live captors were also being dragged into the "hive".
Could they be putting zombies together? This would be a reason to have a DR. that could do a better job of constructing.

Skittles isn't useless. Just because his mind is broken doesn't mean that he doesn't know how to survive. A lot of the information has come from him, zombies types, locates to avoid and behaviors of the zombies. May he stay away from other may because he the reason why the other tower was broke in to. But don't discount he resourceful to himself and two tower. He is a survivor.

[reaper239]

*Sigh.

Well if you must know many of the survivors that lived in the tower were named after survivors from the Titanic. Since Hannah Morgan was NEVER mentioned in the series, I'm not gonna count that as a strike.

John and Johnny.... John is very common.

Puck and Puck... THAT one I will give you would have been one to name different. In fact Puck's original name was Pike. So you can have one point of three. Needless to say I won't be making that mistake again.

wait wait wait, so let me get this straight: they survive the sinking of an unsinkable ship, only to have you take them and kill them in the zombie apocalypse? doesn't that seem just a little mean?

[UndeadSweeper]

Fine. I'll give you more details. Some of these things are details I didn't include.

AND, I can't go into too many details as some of these things have not been talked about, and some of them may not be relivant, but yes. Burt took a while to get to his shop since after the initial outbreak. And Scratch did get Latch out of prison.

Burt's store was well secured, as you can imagine, and would have a very large security gate in place that would require someone who knew what they were doing to get in. Some random people trying to get guns would get in.

Does that help fill it in for ya?

You did name the guy Latch for a reason :) He good with lock, and where else would you find locks then Lock and Loaded.

[Grognaurd]

KC, oh man,

I hope I am not nails on a chalkboard for you. That is not my intent and I am just having some fun.

My original hannah thesis was that she was one of the tower survivors and was in the car with Steven and Jacob (I think) at the end of season 2. Kalani would have seen those people overrun and killed from the top of the tower. This comes shortly after Datu-speach about lost love and Kalani saying "That I get". So I speculated that durring the month he was there he got close to her.

But, the above was probably lost in one of my blah blah blah walls of text and never got traction.

Burt,
I have said that if it really was Latch, Burt was delayed getting to his own shop, because the times did not line up for me. Something else I placed in one of mt walls of text was that I think Burt lived right near ground zero. My reason is that while at Saul's Burt says this is like the Ritz compared to where he lived. A while back someone from the LA area wrote that ground zero appears to be in a really rough neighboorhood in real life. I am not looking for spoilers. Nor am I trying to nit-pik you to death. As long as I am way out here on the curve, one of the things that Scratch may have been looking for is Burt's gun or additional rounds for its twin. Scratch forgot the first rule of FPS. BFGs are awesome, but reloads are a bitch.

My intention is to let you know that me and other fans of yours do listen carefully.

I am sure you have more twists for us

[Grognaurd]

wait wait wait, so let me get this straight: they survive the sinking of an unsinkable ship, only to have you take them and kill them in the zombie apocalypse? doesn't that seem just a little mean?

Well, if they survived the sinking of the Titanic they must be pretty old by now. It was a hell of a run 8-)

[UndeadSweeper]

KC, oh man,

I hope I am not nails on a chalkboard for you. That is not my intent and I am just having some fun.

My original hannah thesis was that she was one of the tower survivors and was in the car with Steven and Jacob (I think) at the end of season 2. Kalani would have seen those people overrun and killed from the top of the tower. This comes shortly after Datu-speach about lost love and Kalani saying "That I get". So I speculated that durring the month he was there he got close to her.

But, the above was probably lost in one of my blah blah blah walls of text and never got traction.

Burt,
I have said that if it really was Latch, Burt was delayed getting to his own shop, because the times did not line up for me. Something else I placed in one of mt walls of text was that I think Burt lived right near ground zero. My reason is that while at Saul's Burt says this is like the Ritz compared to where he lived. A while back someone from the LA area wrote that ground zero appears to be in a really rough neighboorhood in real life. I am not looking for spoilers. Nor am I trying to nit-pik you to death. As long as I am way out here on the curve, one of the things that Scratch may have been looking for is Burt's gun or additional rounds for its twin. Scratch forgot the first rule of FPS. BFGs are awesome, but reloads are a bitch.

My intention is to let you know that me and other fans of yours do listen carefully.

I am sure you have more twists for us

I understand Burt was delay, but was it before or after he when to the tower? My understand is that he was delay going back once he got to the tower.

[Grognaurd]

US,

my premise is that Burt is delayed in getting to his store and he had to fight like hell together when the outbreak started. In the Bathroom he would have water, but no food. I often go 24 hours without food without problems. Three or four days and we find Burt in a virtual coma.

Burt is delayed a second time by Michael after Burt had been at the tower awhile

[UndeadSweeper]

US,

my premise is that Burt is delayed in getting to his store and he had to fight like hell together when the outbreak started. In the Bathroom he would have water, but no food. I often go 24 hours without food without problems. Three or four days and we find Burt in a virtual coma.

Burt is delayed a second time by Michael after Burt had been at the tower awhile

Oh ok, so the first delayed the place was ransack the first time but they didn't get to the safe. Then the second delayed they got in to the safe, right?

[nikvoodoo]

Oh ok, so the first delayed the place was ransack the first time but they didn't get to the safe. Then the second delayed they got in to the safe, right?

First time he was delayed, Latch broke into his gun safe in the front of the store. They did not get into the vault.

Second time he was delayed was by his own chosing. Remember, he didn't want to put all his eggs into one basket. He only went back to the shop to empty the vault after the War when he had no choice. I don't think Michael had anything to do with it, Arthur.

[Litmaster]

*Sigh.

Well if you must know many of the survivors that lived in the tower were named after survivors from the Titanic. Since Hannah Morgan was NEVER mentioned in the series, I'm not gonna count that as a strike.

John and Johnny.... John is very common.

Puck and Puck... THAT one I will give you would have been one to name different. In fact Puck's original name was Pike. So you can have one point of three. Needless to say I won't be making that mistake again.

YAY! Alright everybody, get ready for the newest character in our story: FARQUAR JEHOSAPHAT WARBOWSKI ! :D

[Kc]

KC, oh man,

I hope I am not nails on a chalkboard for you. That is not my intent and I am just having some fun.



Oh I don't mind answering questions on things that have long since passed. There's a lot of pieces of story that have hit the cutting room floor too, so sometimes there are little pieces that are useful in there.

[VidjaGamez]

This make me think crazy again...so this is the chapter we learn kalanis last name. Could that imply that things are not as black and white as we have made them? Perhaps a nice shade of grey?...reading to much into it in sure, but hey....thats what I do

There's a grey to just about everything, I can't deny that.

I'd just really like to have someone prove me wrong on the whole "accidental rat" thing. He went from people not believing that he is a rat to being an accidental rat. But how in the world do you let that information slip to someone you're already on your toes with! Lol!!

"So is my daughter alive? Yea? Well don't hurt her! What can I do to get her back? BTW, my exact location is the other tower and they're throwing a party tonight, place is going to be totally unguarded, crazy right! So, what can I do to save my daughter?"

But now I'm nervous, because it could be absolutely plausible that maybe it was someone else... Maybe Kalani thought he "knew" for some time that Hannah was dead. Again, here I go thinking too far in to it without all my ducks in a row.

[nikvoodoo]

I agree. In the end even if blackmailed, he could have come to the Tower and said at some point, 'they have my daughter, oh and are listening to you over the airwaves'. In that case Michael might have been willing to set something up to get Hannah back.

Missed this comment....

I don't think he could have. How do you even broach that subject with people who are irrationally emotional? Michael has a total hard ass side, Angel overreacts, Burt would have shot him (Kelly probably would have tried to score with his corpse), and Rioey would down two shots for fallen friends.

Point being, I don't think Kalani would have a legitimate way To bring this up without fear.

[Tielurrdee]

Ok I'm new to the board but I have listened to the seasons over and over going over small details. 1st thought for you guys I have not seen discussed. Hannah (kalani's daughter) has to be the girl on the golf course in my mind. My reason being that angel and michael have no clue who kalani is talking about before he crashes the helicopter to stop the tanker. In chapter 10 purgatory datu describes Samantha as having red hair when he first sees her, in chapter 27 part 2 kalani says Samantha's hair is just like his now passed wife. Assuming that Hannah may have red hair. Which means bingo she could be the redheaded girl the mallers shoot on the golf course because they have her. The description of the girl could have been relayed to kalani in the helicopter as he picked up michael and the others to get back to defend the tower before it fell. Also before scratch drops off Pipen (the english guy) she is talking to tar, in the conversation she says she is dropping off pipen then tar said "what about the other one " and scar says "we still have her" tar says "no the one already in the tower" and scar says he hasn't responded in a while. Meaning kalani may indeed be the rat. But may have had no hope that Hannah was alive for some reason or another (or a change of heart) though he wants his daughter he may have had no options to get her or they may have falsely promised him to get her back and they did not follow through. Also could have feared death for himself if he kept helping the mallers get to the tower he was placing himself in to much danger of being killed in the mallers attacks on the tower therefor never seeing his daughter again. He had motivation to kill pipen, access and knowledge of the tower, trust from Bert. If anyone noticed burt tells Saul on the Tarmac to grab his silenced pistol which is not there, kalani walked downstairs to meet datu in the garage right after talking to Michael 2 minutes before pipen is shot along with the downstairs CB radio. They never rule kalani out as the shooter but don't have time and kalani brushes past the situation when Saul and Bert ask Iwhat happened back at the tower when datu and kalani meet at LAX. I could keep going I have more info and thoughts on characters but I'll stop for the moment that was a lot KC and crew you guys are doing an incredible job connecting all of this I am catching everything you throw out there it makes perfect sense.

[7oddisdead]

^this...
I've said this before, but I think at times we as a forum are just to close to the story to see the truth..while we sit back and over analyze the story into the dirt...the truth of the matter is, this story isnt written by us. While we want to add all the crazy twists and plot points we can just to make it more interesting to us...the die hard fans...the truth is, we are a minority (a very important minority..but none the less)..so while trying to scheme how this could not be kalani, the truth is...it most likely is. So yea...i think going forward arkum and his razor will be employed a bit more...by me at least

[nikvoodoo]

Hello new member. Take a look back in Season 2 chapter 24 for all the conversation about Hannah being the redhead. It's also been mentioned often in this thread.

But....you're saying there is no chance Scratch (who told the tower she has two hostages in chapter 24 after the golf course incident took place) dyed a girl's hair red and had her shot?

And 7odd: Occam's razor. Arkum is in Gotham City full of whack jobs ;)

[7oddisdead]

It was a pun Nik...good to see you got it...what?me do normal?

[Tielurrdee]

I will discuss a bit of characters if I may. First off skittles/ Duncan obviously they are indeed the same the big clue was the credit at the end to the voice actor at the end of chapter 27 part 2 there would be no need for that credit other wise plus you can tell the voice if you go back and listen to skittles then listen to Duncan . Skittles seems to know kalani when they hide at the water tower and I wondered why forever tell the connection came between them in kalani's journal. Skittles also had been to the reserve base before it makes mention of that in ch27p2 so of course he thought to go back to hide and maybe find more stuff. Everyone should know the rest of Duncan's story where he has been and what has happened it was simply a mistake letting the guy in the striped suit in. So in chapter 2 part 3 minute 20:50 they mention bill Roberts aka ink who in my mind has to be the guy from the arena also the guy Riley shoots in the hospital also the guy in the pin striped suit who is also the guy who watched Burt, Saul, and lizzy on the roof in lady and the tink. Randy is mentioned in as being sent to the water works by Chinwe , he defiantly meets Michael some how there this whole story is love to know. Michael says randy's name when he wakes up from surgery and when Tanya is being drug by a zombie with a long beard and hair from the outside of the tower. I also wonder if randy could also be the swat member mentioned from chinwe's tower. I still wonder about this theory. I did however predict Tanya being sals mother the second Michael described her. Next thought I think angel and Bert are the 2 scratch found after the tower fell. 1 has to be Bert "the old man" 2 she found what she wanted and for some reason she was really intrested in angel I think she still wants revenge on pegs for killing latch and will use him to find and try to get to pegs if she can. Scratch also said she recognized him in the garage this still makes me curious as to why this is.

[Tielurrdee]

[QUOTE=nikvoodoo;35937]Hello new member. Take a look back in Season 2 chapter 24 for all the conversation about Hannah being the redhead. It's also been mentioned often in this thread.

But....you're saying there is no chance Scratch (who told the tower she has two hostages in chapter 24 after the golf course incident took place) dyed a girl's hair red and had her shot?

Well I'm glad it's been said I searched and didn't see the theory but hadn't looked throught every thread. The dying hair thing I could defiantly go for because scratch said she still had 2 of the towers people I just wonder if it was a bluff to out kalani I guess well find out. I'm enjoying all of your guys post I just have a lot of connections I've searched into for hours while I worked with my headphones on. I hope to read some more great stuff on all of these boards.

[clem131]

Clem,

That is sorta my point. You say she may be cold and aloof after the zombocolypse. But, I think her behavior is cold and aloof even before, just the type of person one may want on some below code clinical trials.
Ah, in that sense, yes, might be, I don't know what to think with all the conspiracy theories behind the bandage on her arm and her being cold etc. I was more commenting on the particular scene you cited, her reunion with her son.

[clem131]

If anyone noticed burt tells Saul on the Tarmac to grab his silenced pistol which is not there, kalani walked downstairs to meet datu in the garage right after talking to Michael 2 minutes before pipen is shot along with the downstairs CB radio.

I wrote about it, essentially he must have grabbed the pistol prior to the shooting, like some days before, as Burt and Saul were already out at LAX before Pippin arrives, but it makes sense, he might have stashed that as a precaution or as an exit strategy.

[nikvoodoo]

It was a pun Nik...good to see you got it...what?me do normal?

That ain't no pun. That's just bad spelling! :p



Well I'm glad it's been said I searched and didn't see the theory but hadn't looked throught every thread. The dying hair thing I could defiantly go for because scratch said she still had 2 of the towers people I just wonder if it was a bluff to out kalani I guess well find out. I'm enjoying all of your guys post I just have a lot of connections I've searched into for hours while I worked with my headphones on. I hope to read some more great stuff on all of these boards.

You act like there is something like 2,400 threads and over 30,000 posts on this forum or something.....Maybe I just think people should work harder before they comment.....

By the way I'm being a sarcastic dick at the moment, so just go ahead and don't take this seriously ;)

There are a great many good things around here....Especially some really really good comments in the zombie theory section about origins and TOWTM etc etc. And if you feel like going off the deep end, just head over to the Crackpot Theories 7odd champions

[reaper239]

do we even have any evidence that kalanis hannah is a redhead? i'm too lazy to look, but somehow, i feel that that is an important point to make.

and nik, that may have been a joke, but ouch ;) and you wonder why new people don't stick around, meanie. don't ask about me sticking around, i'm just a glutton for punishment.

[Grognaurd]

Nik,

Thanks for clairifying what I wrote about the timing. Burt was delayed by Michael on at least one, maybe more.

The for certain:
After Theft, before the war. They have a vote party like a rockstar or go back to Burt's store and get some ammo and possibly food elsewhere. Michael has been the Leader, but defers to democracy at a crisis point. The result is too much booze and not enough ammo

I think there are times when Burt would have liked to have gone to his Vault before that, but I can not think of exact instances, but here is a softer example.

Saul and Angel go to Lock and Loaded. They rescue Burt. They need Fuel. Burt says "there is a ( tanker round back or tank around back) I wass not sure. In any case, Saul does fillup the hummer and discovers the generator. If Burt has that massive generator, I suspect he had more than a hummer worth of fuel.

Plot the location of Lock and Loaded vs the Fuel Depot
Consider an unknown location on a map vs. a location with well known and defined assests, with the caveat that real time intel is lacking

Locked and Loaded is by far the superior Logistics Location. It should have been accessed before the need arises not in a time of crisis.

I have said it before, I would give Michael an A-/B+ for short-term calls and tactics. As far as strategy, I do not think I would out right fail him and kick him in the ass. BUt, I would most certainly roll him back to the next class. Sorry, Wra1th, Angel is not much better.

[Raven]

Reaper -Kahlani to Samantha "You have hair just like my wife." We know Samantha had red hair. . . Dad dyed his hair Daughter might have also since red is not a dominate trait . I am still of the belief Hannah is alive but red hair (red herring?) seems to be a point KC gave us for a reason.

[nikvoodoo]

and nik, that may have been a joke, but ouch ;) and you wonder why new people don't stick around, meanie. don't ask about me sticking around, i'm just a glutton for punishment.

Oh cut it out. I know it's totally unreasonable to expect ANYONE to have read all 30,000+ posts. I've been a member for each and every single post since the relaunch...and I'm partly responsible for policing this place and even I haven't read every single post. #dirtylittlesecrets

[reaper239]

Oh cut it out. I know it's totally unreasonable to expect ANYONE to have read all 30,000+ posts. I've been a member for each and every single post since the relaunch...and I'm partly responsible for policing this place and even I haven't read every single post. #dirtylittlesecrets

poke, prod, agitate, repeat.

[nikvoodoo]

poke, prod, agitate, repeat.

I suddenly feel like giving you a homework assignment to read every single post and report back to me about your findings..... ;)

[reaper239]

i never did homework in highschool. not until halfway through my senior year anyway.

[Kc]

Reaper -Kahlani to Samantha "You have hair just like my wife." We know Samantha had red hair. . . Dad dyed his hair Daughter might have also since red is not a dominate trait . I am still of the belief Hannah is alive but red hair (red herring?) seems to be a point KC gave us for a reason.

Perhaps I shouldn't have pointed out the dyed hair thing. I just wanted to fan the flames of theories, but the possibility of it being dyed seemed to be overlooked. I play devils advocate a lot when writing the series and on the forum. As of right now, Kalani's wife being pointed out to have red hair, Samantha, and Hannah having the same, still makes people think it genetically possible.

But I digress. Kalani had brown hair with gray in it. Hannah had red hair. And here's an article proving it genetically possible:
http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=44

Maybe that will but the "Hair Birthists" to rest. But I doubt it.

Update: Here is a picture of a Hawaiian redhead:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/redzenradish/6419686819/

[nikvoodoo]

Update: Here is a picture of a Hawaiian redhead:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/redzenradish/6419686819/

I adore you. This was damned hilarious!!

[badhead]

Anyone eles think that skittles is the scientist who started the whole zombie outbreak?

[Litmaster]

Perhaps I shouldn't have pointed out the dyed hair thing. I just wanted to fan the flames of theories, but the possibility of it being dyed seemed to be overlooked. I play devils advocate a lot when writing the series and on the forum. As of right now, Kalani's wife being pointed out to have red hair, Samantha, and Hannah having the same, still makes people think it genetically possible.

But I digress. Kalani had brown hair with gray in it. Hannah had red hair. And here's an article proving it genetically possible:
http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=44

Maybe that will but the "Hair Birthists" to rest. But I doubt it.

Update: Here is a picture of a Hawaiian redhead:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/redzenradish/6419686819/


Hmmmmm.... the fact that Kc is going through so much trouble to disprove my "Hawaiian's Can't Have Red Hair" thing obviously shows that I was on to something.... :) Ever since 'Hairgate' went down, I've been thinking how this hair-color thing must be the lynchpin of the whole story, the one element binding all these diverse threads of plot together... Hmmm...

AHA! So it wasn't a person, but a bird who got shot at the golfcourse! That's it! That's it!!

[rottenash]

I used to be a redhead..as i aged it became brown in 10-20 years it will be grey...that is all.

[Nathan.Luiz]

Because I am a pedantic bastard, I thought I'd point this out:

C.J. declares they have lost 10% when the numbers in the other tower fall from 33 to 30. This is factually incorrect, as losing 10% of what they had (33) would mean they'd have lost 3.3 people. Infact, the percentage they did lose was just over 9%.

Just sayin'

[Eviebae]

Wikipedia says (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair):
"Red hair is also found amongst Polynesians, and is especially common in some tribes and family groups. In Polynesian culture red hair has traditionally been seen as a sign of descent from high ranking ancestors and a mark of rulership."

[the one who shoots first]

not sure if this has been brought up yet but, if kalani is not only the rat but also the shooter (now the general consensus) what about the evidence that he was not? ok listen, if memory serves me correctly, kalani and datu where ruled out as shooters because they had already left for the airport by the time the alarm in the armory went off. but if kalani was the shooter, does that mean datu knew about it and even help cover it up? why else would he agree to say that they already left if they hadnt? so that leaves us with datu waiting in the car for kalani to set off the alarm, run through the halls undetected, and then kill pipen. or maybe, just maybe. datu with his intimate knowledge of the building set off the alarm and snuck out through a service entrance, while kalani hid in a nearby room while everyone ran to the armory, waited until the coast was clear, offed pippy long stockings, and then snuck out quietly meeting datu at the vehicle and riding off into the perfect alibi. but why would datu help the man you ask? maybe because kalani confided in him his deep dark secret and his need to rescue his daughter, and datu with a missing family (that he is unsure of the fate of too), sympathises and helps Mr. tons of fun hide his identity while simultaneously protecting the tower from a dangerous mole.

[clem131]

Update: Here is a picture of a Hawaiian redhead:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/redzenradish/6419686819/

Later in the season we find out Zombie Kitty ate her, so he's the mole. And the kitty.

[Grognaurd]

Hmmm... Dye?

It has been a bit over two months. Would roots be obvious? Would it be even noticed on the emotional roller coaster ride that was the golf course?

[reaper239]

my hair is brown and my beard is red because i soak it in the blood of my enemies. i told my little foster brother that, then, because he believed me, he told his social worker. his social worker had some questions about that.

[Adventureless_Hero]

But I digress. Kalani had brown hair with gray in it. Hannah had red hair. And here's an article proving it genetically possible:
http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=44




HANNAH HAD RED HAIR?! Okay, until now I thought it was just a theory or assumption folks had. Was there anything in the story that said Hannah had red hair? And why are you saying it in the passed tense. Hannah is dead?! Are all the characters in the story dead? The zombies won and everyone has died!!! No, I'm not reading to much into your word choice. Everything you say and write has to be perfect! :p

I can't wait for the next episode. :D

[Eviebae]

So, didn't Kalani see Hannah shot? I've been operating under that assumption. If not, it could have been someone else shot. If he did see it she's probably dead. I'd like to believe I'd know my daughter even from far away.

[nikvoodoo]

So, didn't Kalani see Hannah shot? I've been operating under that assumption. If not, it could have been someone else shot. If he did see it she's probably dead. I'd like to believe I'd know my daughter even from far away.

No. He was at a rendez-vous point a ways away. Remember they had to leave the golf course to meet up with him after the shoot out

[Eviebae]

my hair is brown and my beard is red because i soak it in the blood of my enemies. i told my little foster brother that, then, because he believed me, he told his social worker. his social worker had some questions about that.

My Dad is blonde haired, blonde mustached and red bearded. I guess he only soaked up to his lower lip

[edited to add] Can you tell I'm visiting my Dad?

[Eviebae]

No. He was at a rendez-vous point a ways away. Remember they had to leave the golf course to meet up with him after the shoot out

Well, if Hannah is still alive because women are a precious resource
(the person shot could even have been a guy in a wig)
and the burned guy is Kalani,
and Scratch has so much confidence in their doctor that she thinks he can do something with Mr. Krispy
This storyline could continue

[mem]

S-K-I-T-T-L-E-S :D
I want skittles to answer my tech support calls, work the suicide hotline, dj on the radio, have his own talk show and even be a sports commentator.
Catch the rainbow that is skittles goodness !
http://www.bradkent.com/images/bradkent.com/wrappers/wrappers/mars/skittles_crazy_cores.gif

[Eviebae]

S-K-I-T-T-L-E-S :D
I want skittles to answer my tech support calls, work the suicide hotline, dj on the radio, have his own talk show and even be a sports commentator.
Catch the rainbow that is skittles goodness !
http://www.bradkent.com/images/bradkent.com/wrappers/wrappers/mars/skittles_crazy_cores.gif

I think Skittles does answer my tech support calls.
Is that a real flavor????

[reaper239]

No. He was at a rendez-vous point a ways away. Remember they had to leave the golf course to meet up with him after the shoot out

ok, so my question is this: did anyone tell kalani what happened at the golf course?

[Adventureless_Hero]

ok, so my question is this: did anyone tell kalani what happened at the golf course?

That is what I have been wondering. It makes trying to figure out Kalani's motives difficult, which is why I hope the next few episodes continue with Kalani's journal. I'm hoping we hear about what he would be doing in secret at Michael's Tower, like did he fire the shot that started the war, what did that conversation with the Mallers go like, did Scratch say they'd be sending Pippin over at a later date, did Kalani have a plan to get back to together with Hannah or did he assume she was already dead, and did anyone tell him about the red head on the golf course?

I am very curious to see why he was so adamant about leaving the tower and moving somewhere else. I can't imagine he would just want to abandon his daughter to the Mallers. Maybe he was trying to leave the Tower vacant so the Mallers can have it and he hoped they would finally give him his daughter back? I'm still very curious to know who fired that shot that jump started the war.

[awkwardalex]

I know I know last week...

Did anyone else *facepalm* when Kalani comments on Scratch's scar? I do everytime but the first time I was like, "no no no no."

[clem131]

I was re-listening, does anyone know exactly what Kalani means when he says he's been "dumping rice in a 208"? I tried searching to see if it was answered already but 208 is not a valid search key :|

[7oddisdead]

I was re-listening, does anyone know exactly what Kalani means when he says he's been "dumping rice in a 208"? I tried searching to see if it was answered already but 208 is not a valid search key :|

I took it as he was putting bags of rice in room number 208..makes the most sense in that context

[clem131]

Right, thanks.

[Grognaurd]

ok, so my question is this: did anyone tell kalani what happened at the golf course?

Reaper, "We" did not hear anyone tell Kalani. When the golf-crew call Kalani, they are taunted by Scratch. They opt for Radio Silence. It is always they broke radio silence because kalani would not stop asking questions. Once they meet, they have to fly back and there is an opportunity for them to tell Kalani. Third, it is always possible for Kalani to be channel jumping speaking with scratch, who may have told him.

So, we never hear Kalani told, but it could easly be done "Off-Mic"

[Raven]

I really like your idea of Kalahni talking to Scratch while the golf course scene was going on but Pegs was with him training at the time. She is not known for keeping secrets from Micheal esp if it related to the Mallers.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I really like your idea of Kalahni talking to Scratch while the golf course scene was going on but Pegs was with him training at the time. She is not known for keeping secrets from Micheal esp if it related to the Mallers.

Hmmm. This is the first time I have thought about when he could have talked to Scratch. There is a small window of opportunity for him to do so when he is flying the helicopter to pick up Michael, Burt, Riley, and Angel. Datu stayed with Pegs in the other chopper. But unless there is a flash back episode involving Scratch's p.o.v. during Chapter 24 and the events leading up to it, we may never know.

[nikvoodoo]

After the War, Kalani could have had infinite amount of chances to communicate with the Mallers. Any time he was on guard duty specifically could have been a time to do it. But pretty much the only chances he would have had would have been in the relative calm after the War, and before his mission with Angel. After that, he was with people who would turn him in for chatting the mallers up.

[reaper239]

Reaper, "We" did not hear anyone tell Kalani. When the golf-crew call Kalani, they are taunted by Scratch. They opt for Radio Silence. It is always they broke radio silence because kalani would not stop asking questions. Once they meet, they have to fly back and there is an opportunity for them to tell Kalani. Third, it is always possible for Kalani to be channel jumping speaking with scratch, who may have told him.

So, we never hear Kalani told, but it could easly be done "Off-Mic"

see, then we run into the problem of assumptions. as nik has pointed out on multiple occassions, unless it is confirmed on mic, or confirmed by KC it is just speculation and doesn't actually mean anything. i mean it's fun to guess and all that, but without confirmation we can't operate under the assumption of any of these theories being true, no matter how likely they seem. kind of like skittles and the other tower: everyone assumed, and rightly so, that skittles was from the other tower, but until the flashback we couldn't know for sure.

[Grognaurd]

Yes, it is an assumption. But, that is all we can do. He know Kilani said that was my hannah. So, he is also making an assumption out of the blue thinking she is dead or he has information about a red head girl being shot.

WE known that Kalani knows the tower is under attack. We hear Angel begging for help.

Kalani rubs what is left of his budha belly and thinks, gee, who could possibly be attacking the tower with RPGS? Call it a hunch, but hmm... maybe Scratch? Kalani calls the scratch line and as the chopper has landed it will not be making much noise.

Scratch likes to hurt people. Pure and Simple. If Scratch did have hannah killed, I am sure she would tell kalani, to cause even more pain.

For it to happen, we have to hear it. While the assault on tower and the rescue at the golf course are occuring, who is standing next to scratch? Yup, and she has even been known to keep a journal.