Chapter 25- Inadequate Strength part 3

[nikvoodoo]

Final chapter part! What does the dastardly Kc have in store for us now that we'll have to wait two weeks for our next installment??

[Grognaurd]

To quote Clubber Lang (Mr.T)

"Pain"

Well I was wrong, but I think I heard Burt.


Well, looks like they control pretty much everything and there is no place to hide. Better hope there are reinforcements inside these buildings. They'll have to narrow their options and make a stand somewhere. They better fortify a zone of control and start pushing back to expand it.

[Chogidog]

Awesome episode!

[Th3_T3ch]

REALLY KC??? You send Riley off to be drunk in a corn field?! And now Fort Irwin is overrun? What is this world coming to when an audio drama has so much... drama. A bitter sweet episode with no time for Saul and Victor. Only question is, did Michael have a pistol when he got off the helicopter at Fort Irwin? or was he still using his rifle? If he didn't have a pistol, then who took the shot? Kelly had a rifle so it wasn't her. Datu does have a pistol, so it could have been him. Oh and was anyone else able to download the podcast before 9am. It was a few minutes before 9 when I downloaded, but all the previous episodes I had to wait a few minutes after 9 before I could download.

[HardKor]

Random, unorganized thoughts that are popping into my head as I type:
Oh Riley...passed out drunk in a corn field....sadly I can relate. Been there, done that.
The Locked and Loaded commercial had me grinning with joy.
When the helicopter crew was approaching Fort Irwin I half expected them to get shot down. But I guess now we're in for two weeks of guessing whether is overrun or not.
All in all great episode. It ramped up the suspense and is set the stage for whatever is gonna go down at the fort. I gotta believe something is gonna be there. I doubt KC would have the story go there only for them to find it overrun and then abandon the place. It might be overrun, but they'll find something there to move the story.

[Kn1ckerb0cker33]

Good Episode.

1. Is anyone else wondering what Kelly found in the cornfield?
2. Also since Fort Irwin isn't exactly "zombie"-free what do you think they will do next?
3. And is anyone else impressed how fast they were able to fix some complicated hydraulics system?
4. Next week's episode is probably going to be a Saul and Victor episode, so what antics and shenanigans do you think they'll end up in?
5. What was Riley covered in? Alcohol or Blood? Or Corn Syrup =P
6. Oh and what was Datu saying in the helicopter when he cuts himself off 10:38/16:00?

[wh33t]

Loved the Lock and Loaded sponsor ;) I especially loved the part where it was like "If you want something we don't have, we'll find it for you" and I was instantly reminded of Burts arms dealing business in the back of his store (he owned a Lock and Loaded right?)

Damn 2 weeks of waiting. If it's true that you are smarter in death if you were smarter in life then I'm thinking Military Zombies might be ultra good at fighting?

[Kc]

1. Is anyone else wondering what Kelly found in the cornfield?


She found nada. Well, Michael found Riley, and then she found Michael.

[Kn1ckerb0cker33]

She found nada. Well, Michael found Riley, and then she found Michael.

Hmm I thought she said she found/saw something on her "end" of the cornfield. Oh well, I guess that warrants a re-listen.

*Edited*

4:08/16:00 Kelly - "Michael, the tracks might not be hers!"

So she didn't really "find" anything, but she is referring to someone else, or perhaps this was in reference to the "zombies" and the imminent danger they were in?

(Oh and is it "her's" or "hers"?)

[Kc]

perhaps this was in reference to the "zombies" and the imminent danger they were in?


Yup!

[nikvoodoo]

Now we just need spoof sponsors of Michael's college, the hockey team that played at the arena, Riley's restaurant, and Kelly's law firm. ;)

I hated this episode. Because they went to Ft. Irwin. So Kc made me wrong. and I hate being wrong.....

....but aside from my petty nature I thought it was great! Wonder if Riley is apologizing for anything more than getting plastered and lost in a corn field....not exactly likely, but still a possibility.

[Kn1ckerb0cker33]

Now we just need spoof sponsors of Michael's college, the hockey team that played at the arena, Riley's restaurant, and Kelly's law firm. ;)


Wait...that wasn't a real advertisement for a gun store called "Locked and Loaded" in the Southern California area? I also googled it to find nothing on it...*hides away in shame*

[smalls kenobi]

what was Riley covered in?

VERY Wild Idea, but hey i'm using my imagination ;P:
what if the people who found refuge in the fort saw the chopper land and released a zombie, or two, that they held captive to act as attack dogs to maybe see if Michael and the gang were alive, or for some other security reasons. i doubt if there are survivors at Fort Irwin that they would allow zombies to walk about within. but survivors could also be trapped within a certain section of the fort. but i'm guessing that there would be military Personnel there, i'm sure their biggest priority wold be to regain control and secure the fort, and would have a good idea at going about it.

OR! WHAT IF THE FORT IS A ZOMBIE HIVE like The Arena?! Then Michael and The Gang would really be in a pickle!

[Kn1ckerb0cker33]

what was Riley covered in?

VERY Wild Idea, but hey i'm using my imagination ;P:
what if the people who found refuge in the fort saw the chopper land and released a zombie, or two, that they held captive to act as attack dogs to maybe see if Michael and the gang were alive, or for some other security reasons.

OR! WHAT IF THE FORT IS A ZOMBIE HIVE like The Arena?! Then Michael and The Gang would really be in a pickle!

Interesting ideas kenobi. We shall see on the next episode of Dragonb...oh wrong show and 15 years too late!

But what would stop the "zombies" from attacking the people who released them, unless they have some way of releasing them without actually being in contact with them?

[cupcakezombie]

I am wondering if Riley went and found the alcohol in the farm or the barn. That might explain why she is covered in something. It also might be why the zombies found them in the morning, if they were following Riley havig spotted her away from the group.

Was anyone else really worried when Michael and Kelly went into the creepy corn/wheat field as the zombies were getting closer.

[smalls kenobi]

We shall see on the next episode of Dragonb...oh wrong show and 15 years too late!
But what would stop the "zombies" from attacking the people who released them, unless they have some way of releasing them without actually being in contact with them?

DBZ... Good Times.

and yeah, maybe they have some wireless control for a gate on a "Zombie Kennel" of a sort located in a specific area. but IDK, it was just a wild idea :P

[Kn1ckerb0cker33]

Was anyone else really worried when Michael and Kelly went into the creepy corn/wheat field as the zombies were getting closer.

Yep. Lost World: Jurassic Park. "Don't go into the long grass!!!!!"

[smalls kenobi]

Was anyone else really worried when Michael and Kelly went into the creepy corn/wheat field as the zombies were getting closer.

Left 4 Dead: Blood Harvest :)

[EVABLACKX]

How many when hearing the Lock and Loaded sponsor play thought we would hear something about Burt, I did. Damn you Kc :mad:


Good Episode.
1. Is anyone else wondering what Kelly found in the cornfield?
2. Also since Fort Irwin isn't exactly "zombie"-free what do you think they will do next?
3. And is anyone else impressed how fast they were able to fix some complicated hydraulics system?
4. Next week's episode is probably going to be a Saul and Victor episode, so what antics and shenanigans do you think they'll end up in?
5. What was Riley covered in? Alcohol or Blood? Or Corn Syrup =P
6. Oh and what was Datu saying in the helicopter when he cuts himself off 10:38/16:00?

2. Kalani mentioned that they could make a round trip on one tank of gas, "rough guess"(Ch21). Not to say they could go back to LA but more like they have fuel to use. About 100 miles worth given the distance already travel(more or less). Should have fun looking at google maps and seeing possible places to go. :) Vegas anyone. :D. But being serious I don't think they'll leave right away or at all.
3. Not sure if sunset to sunrise is fast or slow :meh:
4. Agreed
5. Blood seems possible since Kelly seemed hesitant to carry her. I was also thinking it could be vomit.
6. Yea what the hell did Datu say?!

Great Episode

[Bray]

I think Kelly was probably referring to Vomit. Drink a bottle of something strong enough to floor you and you're probably gonna be seeing it again. If the tracks were zombies then maybe her puke smell hid her from them?

Like the idea of the zombie being a test. I'd love there to still be a military unit in Ft irwin. If only Michael was a higher rank than Sgt he could command them! Not sure if KC will let us have a military unit though. Once the heroes have access to things that go against the premise it often ruins a show (a la being able to get back to earth in Stargate Atlantis and the stupid god lasers in it!)

Maybe they can go back to LA in a military chopper with mini guns or something? Pick up Saul and Victor and then just go on about their lives??

[Teej]

So I had a few thoughts when listening to this one:
1. (This goes back the part 2 but it was in the recap so I will include it here) after the coyote, michael gets mad about the trash and asks who had the jumbalaya because presumably its theirs. But if you listen earlier it was he who had it. Perhaps a sign he is starting to crack up a bit?
2. Was kinda pissed the riley was went missing as a cliff hanger only to show up drunk minutes in. But since this is unlike KC to do things like this for no reason and they didn't know where the alcohol came from my guess is she got it from the farm house and there is something else there that will come into play later on down the story. (Maybe riley found it or alerted it to their presence, or maybe a fall back if ft irwin is a no go)
3. I too want to know what the hell Datu was saying at 10:38.
4. Gotta say, this episode was not my favorite, great acting and writing still, but nothing happened. Kinda anticlimatic ending to a day waiting for my drive home to listen to it. And now 2 weeks... Guess its a good time to relisten to them all straight through :)

[Litmaster]

Maybe they can go back to LA in a military chopper with mini guns or something?

Heh heh.... yeah-- Apache helicopter, anyone? :hammer:

Take THAT, Mallers!

[Pikepaw]

I loved the Locked and Loaded ad. I have to wonder since this store is mentioned in We're Alive and Burt grunts in the ad, I'm pretty certain this the same as Wayside Flowers. But is there such a store as Lock and Loaded? I don't know American gun stores.

I thought this was another one of those episodes necessary to put the right pieces in place for the overall story. I still enjoyed it, but it was simple, "find Riley, get away from closing in zombies and arrive at Fort Irwin". When Tanya pointed out the military uniforms I said, "that don't mean much" just before Michael said the almost identical, "that doesn't mean much" I feel we are now bonded closer in mind and spirit.

The sort of triumphant, victorious music once they were over the Fort gave me mixed feelings. I was reminded of when we first entered the colony and there was joyful music and birds chirping, and then it turned out not to be such a happy place. I was suspecting Fort Irwin wouldn't be great, but I was hoping that there would be normal people. From a story point of view though, Fort Irwin being overrun would force our characters to go back to LA to discover everyone who is still alive. I like the theories that the Fort isn't 100% zombified, that in some secured buildings there are soldiers holding out.

[Kc]

It was puke on Kelly. Just to clarify

[Incognito]

It was puke on Kelly. Just to clarify

And the fort zombie they shot hitched a ride from the corn field. The troops in Fort Irwin would have had to have been incompetent to have been overrun.

[clem131]

So it's not just me with Datu's line at 10:38. I don't see why it should be difficult to understand on purpose, it's not in a key moment.
Nickvoodoo prediction made sense to me but I'm glad Fort Irvin happened soon in the season. Too far in, and you risk the Battlestar Galactica effect. (isn't there a button to mask spoilers?)
It's a fitting third chapter, not having Vic & Saul in it makes enough room for progression on the helicopter crew storyline.
I'm not a firearm expert, somebody mentioned it was a gun and not a rifle firing at the end? If this is the case, KC having served in the army and knowing the difference means this is a meaningful detail. A zombie remained attached on the helicopter's back somehow, unheard over the engine noise, and then Datu (the one with the pistol) shot him as it was reaching for Michael and Kelly as they went away from the helicopter?

[Jeebogs]

I loved this episode, gently easing us back into the suspense and the fear of the zombies.
Riley covered in vomit, nice.

I really hope that Irwin is either overrun with zombies, or that it has a bunch of soldiers-turned-crazy-mercenaries that just want to ruin Michael's day. I don't think either way they are going to be able to stay there.
But where can they go? They had a good thing going at the tower, security, space, lots nearby to loot from, but you only find places like that in built up areas. And what else do you find in built up areas? Zombles and bat shit crazy Mallers.

If they go find somewhere out of the way in the middle of nowhere, they won't have the security of high walls and concrete buildings, but they will have less zombles to deal with and space to grow food, if they need to.

Fort Irwin just seems too good to be true. There is no way they are going to be able to just clear it out and live happily ever after. For one, it won't make for a very good story, and secondly, look what happened in Dawn of the Dead in the shopping mall, they spend all that time clearing it out, making it safe, only for a bunch of bikers to come ruin it all.

But then, maybe Michael and the chopper gang are just that, the bikers that let the zombles in to Fort Irwin. The remaining soldiers have set up a nice little thing there and here comes Captain Emotionally stunted with a hoard of zombles that have followed his helicopter all the way to their front door....

[Pikepaw]

At 10:38 Datu says, "So what about that nap?" because in 25-2 Michael said he would let him nap on the helicopter on the way to Fort Irwin since Datu had stayed up all night

[kidmuncher]

I thought this was another one of those episodes necessary to put the right pieces in place for the overall story. I still enjoyed it, but it was simple, "find Riley, get away from closing in zombies and arrive at Fort Irwin".



I had the same reaction. I started listening this winter with the luxury of hearing a chapter at a time but now that I am caught up it is hard to get used to such little morsels.

Overall I really wish there where more points of resolve along the season, but the open questions seem to keep accumulating. And now that the survivors are so fractured each group has their own story line I'm afraid it will become more convoluted.

With that said, I think this is an awesome production and will keep listening. Maybe if we all step up our financial contributions to pay the salaries of a full time production staff then we'd have an hour per week...but I guess we should be happy with what we are getting for free.

[Kc]

I had the same reaction. I started listening this winter with the luxury of hearing a chapter at a time but now that I am caught up it is hard to get used to such little morsels.

Overall I really wish there where more points of resolve along the season, but the open questions seem to keep accumulating. And now that the survivors are so fractured each group has their own story line I'm afraid it will become more convoluted.

With that said, I think this is an awesome production and will keep listening. Maybe if we all step up our financial contributions to pay the salaries of a full time production staff then we'd have an hour per week...but I guess we should be happy with what we are getting for free.

If I got paid to do this full time. YES, you would get more ;) And this can be my public announcement. Open questions will start to become closed. That is all I will say for now...

[nikvoodoo]

No! If you start closing questions......that means the show is wrapping up!

More questions! More unresolved issues! More mystery and intrigue!

[Kc]

There will be more questions here and there, but alas, questions must close.

[nikvoodoo]

Oh well fine....you just keep being a good story teller and tie up your loose ends.....pfft. ;)

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Like the idea of the zombie being a test. I'd love there to still be a military unit in Ft irwin. If only Michael was a higher rank than Sgt he could command them! Not sure if KC will let us have a military unit though. Once the heroes have access to things that go against the premise it often ruins a show (a la being able to get back to earth in Stargate Atlantis and the stupid god lasers in it!)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bray,

Mike doesn't have his uniform on anymore, BUT.. Sergeants do have the authority to issue commands/orders. That doesn't mean they'd be followed though. The command structure is probably going to be shredded, so whomever is left, will keep on following who they've been following. FNG's, as a rule are suspect from the start.


They aren't in much danger as long as they're in an operational helo. They can hover over the base at will without a worry (unless they run into Behemoths and they start throwing cars).

[Adventureless_Hero]

I figured Riley was covered in puke. There didn't seem to be too much concern on Michaels part about having Kelly get her hands dirty so I ruled out all the dangerous possibilities. Now I am wondering: Riley + Puke = Pregnant? Lol, I am only kidding. I had to do that since anytime a gal pukes we quickly assume she's pregnant (though I do really think Lizzy is carrying Saul Jr.)

I do believe there might be a scattered number of survivors in the Fort however I do believe the Flesh-Biters have the upper hand. Some evidence for this could be the fact that the helicopters were still all grounded. I figured a good number of survivors may have wanted to scout nearby cities for other people and/or supplies? Then there was the lack of radio contact. Isn't Ft. Irwin supposed to have it's own power? I figured someone would have been manning (personing) the radio.

I do like the idea that perhaps a flesh-biter may have clung onto the helicopter and that could be the one they shot at. Even if the Fort is in tip top shape, I wonder as the chain of command. Having seen 28 Days Later recently I can't help but think that it could be populated with gun toting tribal-mentality men in fatigues.

I look forward to seeing more of what goes on at Ft. Irwin and actually don't even mind if we take a little departure from the story line of my favorite character Saul 2.0

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Ok.. my 2 cents on this episode...

...Michael, Michael, Michael, you let me down troop. Getting lost in the cornfield is a jeep move! *Jeep* stands for brand new troops who don't know squat. You spend all your time telling them to bend over and when they come up say "POP!" You've just pulled your head from your ass!!

50 miles of open desert is a bitch to cross. It'd take the infected a llllllllloooong time to reach the post. The average walking speed for a healthy human is around 3 MPH. The temp and weather won't be a factor for the infected, but the terrain and their condition would be... unless they all came up the road as they followed people fleeing from the west or the base population itself became infected.

Side note: So where should they look on post for survivors or equipment?
MP station
Transportation or Logistics
Operations
Helicopter maintenance hangers. (once those puppies are closed, no one is getting in).

[Kc]

Crow, just curious, have you been to Irwin?

[Ogre]

I liked the episode a lot, not sure if I liked it as a Part 3 to a Chapter, but I still liked it. I also liked how the group has sort of gotten used to the zombies walking around. If this was a season ago and they saw the streets of Bartow crawling with zombies they would've laid chocolate bricks but now they are just like "Sigh. Whatever".

I also would like to throw my hat into the "The Zombie is a test" theory.


Also...

[Th3_T3ch]

Crow, just curious, have you been to Irwin?

It's scary how talkative you are on the forum... normally you're as silent as a mouse.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Crow, just curious, have you been to Irwin?

KC,

as a rule, I try to stay far away from Army Posts..
all jokes aside. Nope. I've only been to Cali once and that was to Travis AFB to get an MRI. I was trying to envision what a training post would have though and picked out what I thought would be universal units.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I guess I could have looked at the installation's web site (like I just did). LOL. I see the MP unit and Ops.. nothing for helo's that I can tell though.

[Grognaurd]

Yea, there is some good stuff in this thread.

I have been wondering / worrying about Michael the last several episodes. And just about unforgivingly this season.

He cannot say there is no one back there. He can say it is too dangerous if he wants. Or the risk to reward sucks. But, he cannot make a statement of fact based on an opinion. I will cut him some slack, but I would say he is whooped and it is clouding his judgement. He is pretty close to doing things that are good for Michael rather than what Michael can do for everyone else.

But, that is one of the main driving points of the series.

Like crowbar said, commmand and control is going to be all screwed up. No Uniform. No ID. Michael does not have the charisma to go in and have all the fuzzies hopto.

And people from different branches just complicates things.

It also makes me miss Burt.

Angel tells Michael to listen to the Gunny, but Michael still writes Burt off. Later in the same episode Burt gives Michael a silenced pistol and calls him "Buck Sgt" as he walks away. A Gunny out ranks a Buck. In addition, Bucks are with the flyboys not the Army. Michael was still wearing his uniform just a couple of days into the story and clearly not Air Force. The majority of the Bucks are not with the Front Line troops and are more likely to be worried about Logistics than fire and maneuver drills. Just a nice little jab.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I thought this was helpful:
http://www.irwin.army.mil/CommandGroupUnits/USAG/Documents/Irwin_Map.pdf

The main helipad is at the corner of Inner Loop Rd. and 5th St. I was able to scope it out on Google maps. Seeing an actual location where the story takes place is pretty awesome!

I just had a thought; what if they weren't shooting at a flesh biter when they landed at Ft. Irwin? What if it was a living soldier who came running up on them or was in a hidden position waiting to shoot them? Maybe Ft. Irwin isn't welcoming any survivors and Michael & crew are surrounded? The final shot we heard (pistol) could have been a warning shot.

[Kc]

I guess I could have looked at the installation's web site (like I just did). LOL. I see the MP unit and Ops.. nothing for helo's that I can tell though.

Just curious if you had. It's definitely a different kind of base.

[Bray]

Bray,

Mike doesn't have his uniform on anymore, BUT.. Sergeants do have the authority to issue commands/orders. That doesn't mean they'd be followed though. The command structure is probably going to be shredded, so whomever is left, will keep on following who they've been following. FNG's, as a rule are suspect from the start.

Sorry I didn't explain properly, I meant that if there is a military unit there then chances are there is someone there who outranks a Sgt.

But even if there is one left I'd bet (like others) that the chain of command is all but gone. This even happened in the tower. Angel was ranking after all, and he was basically told to STFU because he was crap (not a bad thing).

[Kc]

Angel tells Michael to listen to the Gunny, but Michael still writes Burt off. Later in the same episode Burt gives Michael a silenced pistol and calls him "Buck Sgt" as he walks away. A Gunny out ranks a Buck. In addition, Bucks are with the flyboys not the Army. Michael was still wearing his uniform just a couple of days into the story and clearly not Air Force. The majority of the Bucks are not with the Front Line troops and are more likely to be worried about Logistics than fire and maneuver drills. Just a nice little jab.

It's also sometimes used as a reference to E-5 in the army, not always air force.

[IamPaul]

How many when hearing the Lock and Loaded sponsor play thought we would hear something about Burt, I did. Damn you Kc :mad:



2. Kalani mentioned that they could make a round trip on one tank of gas, "rough guess"(Ch21). Not to say they could go back to LA but more like they have fuel to use. About 100 miles worth given the distance already travel(more or less). Should have fun looking at google maps and seeing possible places to go. :) Vegas anyone. :D. But being serious I don't think they'll leave right away or at all.
3. Not sure if sunset to sunrise is fast or slow :meh:
4. Agreed
5. Blood seems possible since Kelly seemed hesitant to carry her. I was also thinking it could be vomit.
6. Yea what the hell did Datu say?!

Great Episode

I am to lazy to go through every post, so if this has been answered I apologize. I beleive Datu said, "How about that nap?"

[IamPaul]

Once again i loved the episode. Quickest 16 minutes of my life. When I heard the ad I thought, 'Well this is going to be how they get Burt in Chapter 25'. Made me chuckle. The only real mystery to this episode besides the ending is what is Riley covered in. Maybe Datu accidentally shot her. Things happened so fast that they may not have had time to fully check Riley. And the uplifting music when they first saw Ft. Irwin made me think that maybe they would be ok, and these last 2 seasons may be them going back to get the others. I hate to say it, but it is kind of nice to not have the tower anymore. There truly is no idea what is going to happen or what they can do now.

[Bray]

Once again i loved the episode. Quickest 16 minutes of my life. When I heard the ad I thought, 'Well this is going to be how they get Burt in Chapter 25'. Made me chuckle. The only real mystery to this episode besides the ending is what is Riley covered in. Maybe Datu accidentally shot her. Things happened so fast that they may not have had time to fully check Riley. And the uplifting music when they first saw Ft. Irwin made me think that maybe they would be ok, and these last 2 seasons may be them going back to get the others. I hate to say it, but it is kind of nice to not have the tower anymore. There truly is no idea what is going to happen or what they can do now.

It's just puke mate, KC already confirmed that. Too much alcohol. But if he hadn't said that then your shout would have been quite a good one.

[IamPaul]

It's just puke mate, KC already confirmed that. Too much alcohol. But if he hadn't said that then your shout would have been quite a good one.


Yea I am not good at reading through every post. Is it weird that Kelly was afraid to touch puke, or am I weird to think that puke isn't gross when you gotta pick up a good friend to save them from potential death or worse.

[Bray]

Yea I am not good at reading through every post. Is it weird that Kelly was afraid to touch puke, or am I weird to think that puke isn't gross when you gotta pick up a good friend to save them from potential death or worse.

Haha yeah given the situation you'd think you'd just get on with the task...women huh? :P

*Hides and waits for the storm*

[IamPaul]

Haha yeah given the situation you'd think you'd just get on with the task...women huh? :P

*Hides and waits for the storm*

Never mind my last post. I forget that Kelly was a lawyer.

[Tandem25]

I just had a thought; what if they weren't shooting at a flesh biter when they landed at Ft. Irwin? What if it was a living soldier who came running up on them or was in a hidden position waiting to shoot them? Maybe Ft. Irwin isn't welcoming any survivors and Michael & crew are surrounded? The final shot we heard (pistol) could have been a warning shot.

Thanks for the link and that's a good theory. I hadn't thought of that one. Most of the other theories posted so far rolled around in my noggin right after this episode. I hope this one is right. It'd flow with the story.
I don't remember who said it but it really was the fastest 16 minutes ever. I had to do a double take at the clock in my office.

Loved the Locked and Loaded ad.

[Hellbringer]

It's also sometimes used as a reference to E-5 in the army, not always air force.

I've called some of my brand new Sergeants "Buck SGT" when they started a little big in their ego britches. It brings them back down to level ground. And I don't do it because of any zoomie or leatherneck references, either.

[Privateer]

If I recall correctly, buck Sergeant (and, for that matter, buck Private) means the lowest rank of the two (Or maybe PV1?), if I recall my googling from when I saw Cool Hand Luke a decade ago. A gunny would be an SNCO, so, yar, outrank. If there is a surviving force at Irwin, there's a significant chance that SGT Cross will not be the senior man on post.

Wiki notes that Irwin has a population of about 8000+. Not a /large/ community, by any means, but, if google maps is something to be believed, it is a sizable enough training facility. Part of me wants to say that the base could have been easily overrun because of the civilian population in Barstow, but, if I recall correctly, that dusty road to the facility wasn't packed with cars.

Still, looking at it, it doesn't look eminently defensible. Its no fortress, and while there must /certainly/ be some sort of fence around a lot of the property, it is a large reservation. Still, chock full of a bunch of dudes being trained to fight in the desert, armed to the teeth, with foreknowledge of all the proper places to hole up (assuming bachelor enlisted housing is the same 'round the military, those things would make some formidable buildings if you could knock out stair access.), its not inconceivable that a sizable population has been holed up waiting for a rescue party.

I have to agree. That gunshot at the end was... inconclusive. It didn't necessarily have to have come from our disembarking heros at all. All the noise might've drawn zombies, but the sound of a big Coastie chopper would probably draw survivors too. Hopefully more /trusting/ survivors.

[Cabbage Patch]

I'm not sure if this is what KC has been hinting at, but let me explain something about Fort Irwin that might be of interest.

This is a MAJOR training base. Every 28 days a 4,000 man Army Brigade arrives there to conduct very realistic war games. These units travel to California with their small arms and some specialized equipment, but they pick up most of their heavy equipment from stores that are permanently maintained on Fort Irwin.

At the edge of the main base there is a complex of warehouses that contain, literally, enough hardware to equip an Army. This includes all of the tanks, armored vehicles, trucks, humvees, ammunition and rations necessary to equip the visiting Brigade. Plus there is enough to equip the Brigade scheduled to arrive the following month. Plus there is enough to equip the OPFOR (Opposing Forces) unit that is permanently based at Fort Irwin to serve as a sparring partner for the visiting units. All told, there must a thousand tanks and armored vehicles and over five thousand trucks and humvees located on the base.

Add to that the fact that Fort Irwin gets its water from wells on the base, it gets its electricity from a solar power complex on the base, that there's a large fuel storage facility and a hospital, and that it's geographically isolated, and you can see why Michael, Saul & Angel thought that the survivors could hold out here.

[DeeKay86]

I'm not sure if this is what KC has been hinting at, but let me explain something about Fort Irwin that might be of interest.

This is a MAJOR training base. Every 28 days a 4,000 man Army Brigade arrives there to conduct very realistic war games. These units travel to California with their small arms and some specialized equipment, but they pick up most of their heavy equipment from stores that are permanently maintained on Fort Irwin.

At the edge of the main base there is a complex of warehouses that contain, literally, enough hardware to equip an Army. This includes all of the tanks, armored vehicles, trucks, humvees, ammunition and rations necessary to equip the visiting Brigade. Plus there is enough to equip the Brigade scheduled to arrive the following month. Plus there is enough to equip the OPFOR (Opposing Forces) unit that is permanently based at Fort Irwin to serve as a sparring partner for the visiting units. All told, there must a thousand tanks and armored vehicles and over five thousand trucks and humvees located on the base.

Add to that the fact that Fort Irwin gets its water from wells on the base, it gets its electricity from a solar power complex on the base, that there's a large fuel storage facility and a hospital, and that it's geographically isolated, and you can see why Michael, Saul & Angel thought that the survivors could hold out here.

It sounds so damn cool that I want to live there now! LOL

[Jeebogs]

I'm not sure if this is what KC has been hinting at, but let me explain something about Fort Irwin that might be of interest.

This is a MAJOR training base. Every 28 days a 4,000 man Army Brigade arrives there to conduct very realistic war games. These units travel to California with their small arms and some specialized equipment, but they pick up most of their heavy equipment from stores that are permanently maintained on Fort Irwin.

At the edge of the main base there is a complex of warehouses that contain, literally, enough hardware to equip an Army. This includes all of the tanks, armored vehicles, trucks, humvees, ammunition and rations necessary to equip the visiting Brigade. Plus there is enough to equip the Brigade scheduled to arrive the following month. Plus there is enough to equip the OPFOR (Opposing Forces) unit that is permanently based at Fort Irwin to serve as a sparring partner for the visiting units. All told, there must a thousand tanks and armored vehicles and over five thousand trucks and humvees located on the base.

Add to that the fact that Fort Irwin gets its water from wells on the base, it gets its electricity from a solar power complex on the base, that there's a large fuel storage facility and a hospital, and that it's geographically isolated, and you can see why Michael, Saul & Angel thought that the survivors could hold out here.

So essentially, what you're saying is, in order for them all to have been turned, something must have gone VERY wrong.

OR, maybe, just maybe, the OPFOR were the zombles and the government were sending troops there to practice taking down the soon to be undead masses!!!

[Hellbringer]

It sounds so damn cool that I want to live there now! LOL

I've been there 4 times. Fun to visit (sometimes), doesn't look fun to live at. Once you leave the base, the nearest civilization is Barstow. The biggest nearby cities are Las Vegas and LA; 3 hour trip either way.

[reaper239]

what is with everyone blaming each other and getting all pissy? yes kelly made an assumption, yes that was bad, no it was not unreasonable, michael: calm the fuck down. she made a mistake, there is no need to beat her face in with a zuchini.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Just curious if you had. It's definitely a different kind of base.

LOL. Copy that. I also didn't know that "Buck Sgt" was a term in the Army's lexicon.

[dontkillburt]

I've been there 4 times. Fun to visit (sometimes), doesn't look fun to live at. Once you leave the base, the nearest civilization is Barstow. The biggest nearby cities are Las Vegas and LA; 3 hour trip either way.


Midway through part 2, Michael makes reference to "few more active duty bases to the east" of their emergency landing spot outside Barstow, but he did know how far off they were. Don't know what bases he was refering but he really should have looked to the west. Edwards AFB, which is a MAJOR military installation and about the same distance as Ft. Irwin from where they were at the time and about the same distance as from where they are now in part 3.

But now one must assume now that if Ft Irwin is overrun by zombies (which it certainly sounds like), then Edwards probably is too. Hopefully we will see some glimmer of hope somewhere at Irwin, otherwise I see this audio drama having a very, very dark ending. And I hate dark endings.

[Grognaurd]

When faced with a Zombie horde and looking for a place to regroup to Live out Life, Restart Civilization or plan for a counter strike the problem becomes where does one go?

The thing is, that if it is a really nice to place to live is there were probably people there before the outbreak. Since KC it our heroes with virtual extinction event by altering or killing about 6 billion people, if there were people there, before the outbreak, there are almost certainly zombies there now. This provides the catch 22 that survivors have to escape the zombies and then rebuild where it is inhospitable. To cusion the blow, one can seek out Supply Dumps that are not easily accessed. A military base in the middle of the desert (Death Valley?) is a good choice. Not a lot of people around and a natrual Area-Denial buffer. If the group can make a beach-head and defend it from the initial counter strike they could be OK. They MUST have an easily defended locations with logistic backup. Then, they have to Push Back the enemy and start creating Zones of Control that have a decrease in threat as one gets to the "safe room" of last resort.

Another good Option is a Hunting / Fishing Lodge. Those might be fully stocked, they are remote and have a lot of things to hunt or fish. Once there, they will have to be secured like the tower was and with any luck Ft Irwin will be.

The good news is that it seems they landed on an elevated structure. Let's hope its access is restricted such as a single gang-way and not designed for supply drops with a truck-size access ramp

[reaper239]

LOL. Copy that. I also didn't know that "Buck Sgt" was a term in the Army's lexicon.

it's not an official thing, but it is used to differentiate a sergeant E5 from higher ranking sergeants. typically in passing higher ranking sergeants would just be refered to as sergeant, but when seeking to differentiate between say a first sergeant and a sergeant, one might say first sergeant and buck sergeant.

[dontkillburt]

The good news is that it seems they landed on an elevated structure. Let's hope its access is restricted such as a single gang-way and not designed for supply drops with a truck-size access ramp

The helicopter pad (Captain Pegs refers to it as a "helicopter place") would simply be a flat parking tarmac for choppers, not a structure. Michael even tells us that there were several other desert camo'd helicopters tied down around them. I think they landed right there on flat ground.

What really surprises me is that they didn't take time to make a positive identification before setting the helicopter down. Datu stating that there were "people" and Tanya observing that "I think a see uniforms" confirmed nothing. They gave up their only advantage by setting the helicopter down on the tarmac. What was the big hurry?

Now we have a busted up Burt with a nearly dead Angel, along with maybe Lizzy in the hands of Scratch and the mallers, a confused (and very bitchy) Saul and Victor pondering whether they should continue forward to Ft Irwin or go back to the Tower, Michael and Kelly stranded in Ft. Zombieland and a helicopter load of the blind and drunk. I was wondering when we would get to the "Inadequate Strength" part.

We're there.

[Cabbage Patch]

Midway through part 2, Michael makes reference to "few more active duty bases to the east" of their emergency landing spot outside Barstow, but he did know how far off they were. Don't know what bases he was refering but he really should have looked to the west. Edwards AFB, which is a MAJOR military installation and about the same distance as Ft. Irwin from where they were at the time and about the same distance as from where they are now in part 3.

Fort Irwin is surrounded by other military reservations. The northwest corner of the reservation buts up against the Nellis Air Force Base ranges, the China Lake Naval Air Station ranges are on the western boundary, with Edwards AFB just beyond them, and the Marine Corps 29 Palms complex is due east.

If our heroes can't make a go of it at Fort Irwin maybe they should head off to Area 51. That's about the same distance to the northwest as LA is to the southwest.

[Adventureless_Hero]

What really surprises me is that they didn't take time to make a positive identification before setting the helicopter down. Datu stating that there were "people" and Tanya observing that "I think a see uniforms" confirmed nothing. They gave up their only advantage by setting the helicopter down on the tarmac. What was the big hurry?

I was quite surprised by this too. I thought before touching down they would want to confirm whether or not the place had been hit and/or overrun. I figure they would want to see signs of at least one survivor before touching down.

[EDIT]I had a theory that the shot fired at the end of 25-3 may have come from a soldier as a warning to Michael and his group but having relistened you can definitely hear a zombie growl accompanying running foot falls.

I'm also thinking Lizzie has to be pregnant now, otherwise, what reason would Scratch have not to kill her? As cold and cruel as Scratch has proven to be, I can still picture her saying, "Leave that bitch alone. She's pregnant." Maybe since Lizzie is so attractive she will be presented to Durai as a gift.

[Grognaurd]

Thanks Don't Kill Burt.

I guess I did not listen carefully enough. The Landing Places up here (NY's Northern Boarder) are off the ground. Six feet or so. The choppers are tied down there. Now that I stop to think about it, it is probably because of the Snow. As it is elevated, it is very easy to clear off and will not be quickly filled back in by blowing snow.

Ft Irwin is probably still on the flat lands and not in the mountains? If so, I do not think they will have to worry much about snow and even less for snow drifts.

[kidmuncher]

I think one of the "animated corpses" road into the fort clinging to the helicopter skid, out of view of everyone inside. This would explain why it just sort of appears as soon as they get out of the helicopter and Michael is taken by surprise. The people on the ground probably noticed the thing hanging from the helicopter...

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Looking at the avenues of approach to the Post, I see that the West (Goldstone Rd) and South (Ft Irwin Rd) can be defended pretty easily for well trained infantry and artillary troops. Those are pretty narrow choke points and they'd have the roads prepared as well as having the high ground.
The SE (Langford Lake Rd)has the largest gap by far. That would be where the greatest concentration of fire power would be for a traditional holding defense. BUUUUT, since the infected are most likely coming up the road from Barstol, then the southern most route would be where they'd make preparations.
The bad thing is that the post's supporting infrastructure is spread way the hell out!

[reaper239]

i also couldn't figure out why they wouldn't buzz the base a couple times, though i like the zombie on skid row theory since that would mean that the base wasn't overrun.

[nikvoodoo]

My only issue with the skid zombie is why do we hear it running up? Its already there. It makes more sense for the zombie to come out from behind one of the tied down choppers to me.

[Bray]

Maybe it fell of just before the touch down?

[Adventureless_Hero]

The "skid zombie" (liking this term) may have come running from around the chopper? Perhaps Michael and Kells were a few paces from the bird?

Either that or the skid zombie did come running from behind one of the tied down helicopters. I am assuming they landed on the main helipad at the intersection of Inner Loop Rd. and 5th Street. I'm curious as to what is at Bicycle Lake Army Airfield. Any chance at finding a plane for long distances?

[Litmaster]

i also couldn't figure out why they wouldn't buzz the base a couple times, though i like the zombie on skid row theory since that would mean that the base wasn't overrun.

Seems likely the base was overrun. going by the presence of 'tied down' choppers. Can't imagine why any surviving soldiers wouldn't try to use those babies if they were just sitting there the whole time. Pegs can't be the only person in Southern Cali that ever had some flight training...

[Cabbage Patch]

I'm curious as to what is at Bicycle Lake Army Airfield. Any chance at finding a plane for long distances?

Bicycle Lake Army Airfield is a fancy designation for what is basically a dry lakebed. There aren't any fixed wing aviation assets stationed there. Sometimes training aviation units will set up helicopter operations there, or the Air Force will use it to drop cargo from C-130s.

By the way, whenever it rains Bicycle Lake fills with water and looks like a big, blue lake. I wonder if that's the body of water they saw as the helicopter was approaching the base?

[Cabbage Patch]

I noticed that a lot of you are checking out the images of Fort Irwin on Google Maps and other on-line map sites. Here's a fun fact, the maps appear to have been redacted! To start with, almost the entire Goldstone Deep Space Communications Complex is missing. You can see the buildings, but all of this is missing 1537

Makes me wonder what else might be missing!

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

To me, the tied down copters means the airfield is safe for the most part. That's how I read into it.
Anyway, I would have assumed Mike to have a "Plan B" or alt landing spot in case the post didn't work out.

[Grognaurd]

They are in the Joly Green Giant, right? Does that even have skids? In my hazy memmory, I remember JG's being towed about. Maybe I am wrong. Skids have way more friction than tires and to save weight, I do not think one would have both. I do not recall the landing gear being retractable. But, there could easily be many models.

Buzzing the Base, Unless Coast Guard Choppers are a common occurance at Ft. Irwin, I think it would generate a recognition response from an intelligent human. I do not think the average dumb zombie could "fake it".

Radio. There are a hell of a lot of channels on the radio, but unless someone %^*&(%^&* with the radio it should be on a marine (oceanic not as Burt) emergency channel. I do not know military protocol for emergencies. But, I would think chopper would be remain stationary with the base the oblication to tune to the proper frequency.

Like Crowbar states, I take the tied down choppers as the base is / was controlled. A zombie panic would probably have them moved. But, if the initial zombie assault is repulsed valuable assests would be protected as per standard operating proceedures.

We hear them say they see "people" The number of people must be low or they would not land. If the number of survivors on base is low, I can see them spending much time in lock-down as was done in the tower. A few zombie doing the Ikky Shuffle would not be a concern. Pegs did not spend much time circling, so if there are reinforcements I would expect them to come from the buildings soon, but can accept not yet.

I can see the tension after the zombies are killed and the humans come out. Datu Draws down on them, shoots, misses. The people shout, Don't shoot we're alive! Then according to all my ol' drinking buddies I have to drink because of reference to the title....

[Grognaurd]

I noticed that a lot of you are checking out the images of Fort Irwin on Google Maps and other on-line map sites. Here's a fun fact, the maps appear to have been redacted! To start with, almost the entire Goldstone Deep Space Communications Complex is missing. You can see the buildings, but all of this is missing 1537

Makes me wonder what else might be missing!


Probably a function of the previous VP. He took the need to know way over the top such that even the brand of toilet peper was top secret.

O yea, I was talking to my freind Zapp last night. He reminded me that the Army is always evil in the zombie apocolypse. I wonder if it will be any different here? Michael, Angel and Saul were "in" the army, but I consider them main characters. They are not THE Army (which we have yet to meet)

[Randle K]

Man this entire chapter felt a little "Inadequate." I know Kc has a plan, but after suffering from "we're Alive" withdraws all fall long this chapter was pretty weak. I don't know if the story had to get slowed down to meet the 4 season time-frame or was this just one of those chapters that was all potatoes and no meat. I am dying to hear whats going on with Saul and Victor.

Earlier in this chapter: Michael was the one who had the Jambalaya MRE, and Saul is right the vegetarian ones are the best ones; i got chocolate peanut butter in one once.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Man this entire chapter felt a little "Inadequate." I know Kc has a plan, but after suffering from "we're Alive" withdraws all fall long this chapter was pretty weak. I don't know if the story had to get slowed down to meet the 4 season time-frame or was this just one of those chapters that was all potatoes and no meat. I am dying to hear whats going on with Saul and Victor.

Earlier in this chapter: Michael was the one who had the Jambalaya MRE, and Saul is right the vegetarian ones are the best ones; i got chocolate peanut butter in one once.

I am going to have to disagree with you. This chapter felt perfect in my opinion. Though I think the arrangement of each chapter could have gone a little better. Perhaps have the Saul/Victor scenes from 25-1 and 25-2 condensed into Episode 25-1, then focus on Michael and the group in 25-2 and 25-3.

Out of curiosity, how long have you been a listener? There are some chapters from previous seasons where it seems as though nothing happened, but that's the reality of it (even though it's fictitious), you can't have shoot outs, chases, deaths, and the bits that are considered "meaty" in every chapter. Just enjoy the character development and ponder the possibilities of what lay ahead.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

1538Man oh man... the skids thing.. Arthur you are right my man. We went round and round and around about the copters and posted tons of pictures. Several were posted about the JGG and yes, that puppy has wheels. It only has one door and that's on the right side. Nothing to hold on to other than the "fins."
Next theory...

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Man this entire chapter felt a little "Inadequate." I know Kc has a plan, but after suffering from "we're Alive" withdraws all fall long this chapter was pretty weak. I don't know if the story had to get slowed down to meet the 4 season time-frame or was this just one of those chapters that was all potatoes and no meat. I am dying to hear whats going on with Saul and Victor.

Earlier in this chapter: Michael was the one who had the Jambalaya MRE, and Saul is right the vegetarian ones are the best ones; i got chocolate peanut butter in one once.


The veggie ones SUCK!! Mike forgetting that he was the one with the Jambalaya and getting lost in the cornfield are indications that he's pretty close to losing it. The stress isn't adding up, it's added already. Matter of fact, it's doing complex equations on him now.
If they get a real breather, Tonya probably needs to give him a horse or elephant tranq. At the very least.. medical Mary Ja'wana (it is Cali after all).

[Adventureless_Hero]

1538Man oh man... the skids thing.. Arthur you are right my man. We went round and round and around about the copters and posted tons of pictures. Several were posted about the JGG and yes, that puppy has wheels. It only has one door and that's on the right side. Nothing to hold on to other than the "fins."
Next theory...

It has a large door in the rear doesn't it? But yeah, no skids. So much for the short lived, awesome term "skid zombie".

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Jolly+Green+Giant

1539

[nikvoodoo]

The stress isn't adding up, it's added already. Matter of fact, it's doing complex equations on him now.


As long as he doesn't try to divide by zero.......

[Cromulent Frog]

KC, well done with the cliffhanger.....AGAIN! It's going to be a long two weeks so I'll be looking forward to what happens now that we know Ft. Irwin is not zombie free. I'm thinking that since there are zombies there, there will also be "normal" people. Where there's a food source there's a zombie, otherwise they'll just keep on moving till they find one right? Those are the "zombie rules" as I understand it.

Victor and Saul better make friends fast because something tells me they're in for a lot of trouble with just the two of them out there.

[Adventureless_Hero]

KC, well done with the cliffhanger.....AGAIN! It's going to be a long two weeks so I'll be looking forward to what happens now that we know Ft. Irwin is not zombie free. I'm thinking that since there are zombies there, there will also be "normal" people. Where there's a food source there's a zombie, otherwise they'll just keep on moving till they find one right? Those are the "zombie rules" as I understand it.

Victor and Saul better make friends fast because something tells me they're in for a lot of trouble with just the two of them out there.

Well if there are zombies that doesn't guarantee there are normals there. Early on in the story we have confirmed these aren't your typical zombies that follow the "zombie rules". For one they have been caught eating canned food and MRE's. Hell, they even eat each other, or so it seems. So if the whole base has turned, down to the very last normal person, they can continue on whatever food stuffs were on the camp and then start eating each other.

KC leaves it so nothing is certain...damn it!

[Randle K]

I am going to have to disagree with you. This chapter felt perfect in my opinion. Though I think the arrangement of each chapter could have gone a little better. Perhaps have the Saul/Victor scenes from 25-1 and 25-2 condensed into Episode 25-1, then focus on Michael and the group in 25-2 and 25-3.

Out of curiosity, how long have you been a listener? There are some chapters from previous seasons where it seems as though nothing happened, but that's the reality of it (even though it's fictitious), you can't have shoot outs, chases, deaths, and the bits that are considered "meaty" in every chapter. Just enjoy the character development and ponder the possibilities of what lay ahead.

I have been listening over the past six months. Yes, you are correct about fiction not always being able to be complete action, but other then finally getting Michael's group to Fort Erwin,but for the most part it didn't seem like there was much story/character development (I'm not counting Riley's alcoholism and Datu's inability to shoot). I think a lot of my frustrations come from how I started listening, I didn't really have to wait to find out what was happening next because I was behind and finally caught up by the season 2 finally. That being said, typically at the en:mad::cool:d of each chapter I would have a feeling of satisfaction, but i wasn't able to get this one, so I have to stand by my original opinion. I tried listening to 25-1, 25-2, and 25-3 all together but I still didn't get a warm and fuzzy about it.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Ah, yeah. That'll happen. I didn't come in till around chapter 8 or 9. So I was able to listen to the whole first 8 chapters without pause. After that it was difficult waiting for each new episodes,...

[Zombiphobe]

I can't quite get behind the idea that Fort Irwin is completely overrun with zombies.

Helicopters make a lot of noise, which would draw in any and all zombies. Kalani mentioned that after coming in loud at LAX, they were swarmed and only 3 people escaped alive. If the uniformed individuals were in fact zombies, they would have come running. As it is, there's a long, nail-biting pause before we hear a single zombie approach the helicopter.

[IamPaul]

I think that he was just joking about the jambalaya. Michael is quite a jokester. Kicking people out, the crowbar.

[Zombiphobe]

Like Crowbar states, I take the tied down choppers as the base is / was controlled. A zombie panic would probably have them moved. But, if the initial zombie assault is repulsed valuable assests would be protected as per standard operating proceedures.

I agree with Crowbar and LaMarche. If zombies had gotten into the base, I imagine the helicopters would have been the first choice for an escape plan. I would expect some to be missing or grounded (like the Jolly Green Giant was). There would be more chaos left over after a zombie infiltration.

[DeeKay86]

Can't.take.it.anymore.

no.episode.today.

must.make.it.to.next.week.

*dies*

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

--------------------------------------------------------- <br />
When you look at or experience Combat Fatigue/1000 yard stare and all that, you start noticing things that Mike is going through. &quot;Have you...

[kidmuncher]

To Arthur LaMarche, about the skids...

You are totally right. For some reason I had the Bell in my mind when I thought of that. The CH-3E (Jolly Green Giant) variants do not have skids and a quick look at Wikipedia suggest that the Sea King did have retracting landing gear, With that said if you look at an image you can imagine a few places where one of "them" might grab a hold. This detail could even be resolved if Pegs happened to forget to raise the landing gear.

[Kc]

To Arthur LaMarche, about the skids...

You are totally right. For some reason I had the Bell in my mind when I thought of that. The CH-3E (Jolly Green Giant) variants do not have skids and a quick look at Wikipedia suggest that the Sea King did have retracting landing gear, With that said if you look at an image you can imagine a few places where one of "them" might grab a hold. This detail could even be resolved if Pegs happened to forget to raise the landing gear.

Just a devil's advocate. Would Pegs know how to retract them?

[Willy Beamen]

I am of the opinion that Cross is losing it...falling apart...coming undone. The pressure is getting to him; he has spent two season's bottleing everything up and now his world is coming unglued. Cross has become emotionaly unstable. I think we are going to see an erratic and unpredictable Cross in the future.
Examples;
1. feaking out about the Jumbaliya garbage, which was obviously his.
2. going all "black ops" right outa the helicopter in an empty field with great visability in all directions (I love the mental image of a stressed out Cross glaring at a field of nothing, sweat running down his face, finger twitching on the trigger, unresponsive to other people talking to him)
3. remaining sexualy clueless
4. mood swings (more than usual)
5. landing willy-nilly at the Fort despite sighting movement in the base (why not a fly by to check things out first)
6 slow reaction to the zombie attack at the base

I think Cross is going to make a grave mistake that is either going to get the group into some serious plop or cause his own demise/separation/expulsion from the group

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Just a devil's advocate. Would Pegs know how to retract them?

Damn you KC!!
I'm going to say that "I" would assume that lowering and raising the gear would have been one of the first things about landing and take offs, that Kalani taught her...
Now there's this big old BUT, hanging in the ether.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I think that he was just joking about the jambalaya. Michael is quite a jokester. Kicking people out, the crowbar.

Um... did you just use my name in vain??? hahah
Anyway, Mike was deadly serious about the left over package. When you go to the field, one of the first things they teach you is how to dispose of your waste. It prevents the arrival of vectors and pests. That all leads to safety and hygiene.
You ever go camping and was told to elevate your gear... especially your food? Hang it high so animals can't get to it? Same thing applies here. The infected could possibly smell the leftover contents and stumble into the camp. They start popping off rounds and now you have more infected headed your way.

[fletch444]

Ft. Irwin is a training post. I can definitely see how it could easily be over run (or any army post within the USA for that matter).
1. The infection spreads very quickly.
2. The average soldier that is stationed there is either OPFOR (an opposing force used as enemy soldiers during training. They don't walk around with live rounds... all blanks and lasers) or they are support personnel who work in finance, logistics, the mess hall, etc..etc... They don't carry around ammo and probably don't know where or how to get to it)
3. MP's are the only ones (while a live fire mission isn't taking place) who typically carry or have access to live ammo and it's a limited amount of ammo at that.
4. The only time a large amount of soldiers have live ammo is during the live fire portion of each training cycle and this only lasts for 2 days max.
5. Ammo is stored far away from where soldiers are located in bunkers typically underground / inside man made mounds of dirt. These places are very thinly guarded by soldiers who may or may not be armed and if they are armed then they typically have a 9mm or an M4 and if a zombie were to attack, they wouldn't have any time to open the ammo bunkers to retrieve it. (Enter the security code, unlock the lock box for the keys to the bunkers, walk to the bunkers, enter another security code, unlock the outer doors to the bunkers, unlock the cage doors, find the right ammo for a weapon they may or may not be carrying and that's IF they opened the right bunker.)

Irwin would definitely be a good place to get supplies. There is probably enough MRE's there to last 100 people as much as they could eat for 10 years or until they started spoiling. There is a ton of ammo there as well. Everything from 120mm main gun tank rounds to 9mm pistol rounds. One would have to make sure that the ammo they are taking is not a box of blanks because there are many more times the amount of blanks than there are of live ammo and they are all stored in the same general area.

There is a ton of armored vehicles there... Probably at least 4 armored brigades worth (80 to 120 armored vehicles per brigade) if not more. Tanks, Hummers, APC's, Tracks, Fuel and water trucks all start with a push of a button. If the vehicle is locked, well... we all know how they unlocked their hummer in chapter 1.

Not a bad place to resupply.... I can wait to see how it all plays out.

[IamPaul]

Um... did you just use my name in vain??? hahah
Anyway, Mike was deadly serious about the left over package. When you go to the field, one of the first things they teach you is how to dispose of your waste. It prevents the arrival of vectors and pests. That all leads to safety and hygiene.
You ever go camping and was told to elevate your gear... especially your food? Hang it high so animals can't get to it? Same thing applies here. The infected could possibly smell the leftover contents and stumble into the camp. They start popping off rounds and now you have more infected headed your way.

Reading that sentence with you in mind made me chuckle aloud. I just think it is stretching it to think that Michael is going mental, as the brits say (or Britts, I dunno if she has said that but I would not put it past her.) He is extremely tired, plus maybe Hope had jambalya too. That was never resolved. Hopefully Kc can answer that for us by the end of the series. lol j/k. But seriously, what did she eat?:p

[Adventureless_Hero]

Reading that sentence with you in mind made me chuckle aloud. I just think it is stretching it to think that Michael is going mental, as the brits say (or Britts, I dunno if she has said that but I would not put it past her.) He is extremely tired, plus maybe Hope had jambalya too. That was never resolved. Hopefully Kc can answer that for us by the end of the series. lol j/k. But seriously, what did she eat?:p

She was eating Lady's kibble, because Michael is an asshole to little blind girls.
lol, seriously though, just because she couldn't tell what she was eating, I'm sure she would have liked to know! Poor Hope.

[dontkillburt]

She was eating Lady's kibble, because Michael is an asshole to little blind girls.
lol, seriously though, just because she couldn't tell what she was eating, I'm sure she would have liked to know! Poor Hope.

Michael feeding Hope Lady's kibble...that's classic!

Personally, me thinks there is more to Hope than we have been led to believe. I keep wondering back to what she said just before riding the zip line between the Tower and the other building in chapter 24, part 3..."That's a long way." How did she know this?

And wasn't she the last to "see" Pippin alive? I mean, if there was someone who wanted revenge against the maller clan, it was Hope.

Hmmmm.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Ft. Irwin is a training post. I can definitely see how it could easily be over run (or any army post within the USA for that matter).
1. The infection spreads very quickly.
2. The average soldier that is stationed there is either OPFOR (an opposing force used as enemy soldiers during training. They don't walk around with live rounds... all blanks and lasers) or they are support personnel who work in finance, logistics, the mess hall, etc..etc... They don't carry around ammo and probably don't know where or how to get to it)
3. MP's are the only ones (while a live fire mission isn't taking place) who typically carry or have access to live ammo and it's a limited amount of ammo at that.
4. The only time a large amount of soldiers have live ammo is during the live fire portion of each training cycle and this only lasts for 2 days max.
5. Ammo is stored far away from where soldiers are located in bunkers typically underground / inside man made mounds of dirt. These places are very thinly guarded by soldiers who may or may not be armed and if they are armed then they typically have a 9mm or an M4 and if a zombie were to attack, they wouldn't have any time to open the ammo bunkers to retrieve it. (Enter the security code, unlock the lock box for the keys to the bunkers, walk to the bunkers, enter another security code, unlock the outer doors to the bunkers, unlock the cage doors, find the right ammo for a weapon they may or may not be carrying and that's IF they opened the right bunker.)

Irwin would definitely be a good place to get supplies. There is probably enough MRE's there to last 100 people as much as they could eat for 10 years or until they started spoiling. There is a ton of ammo there as well. Everything from 120mm main gun tank rounds to 9mm pistol rounds. One would have to make sure that the ammo they are taking is not a box of blanks because there are many more times the amount of blanks than there are of live ammo and they are all stored in the same general area.

There is a ton of armored vehicles there... Probably at least 4 armored brigades worth (80 to 120 armored vehicles per brigade) if not more. Tanks, Hummers, APC's, Tracks, Fuel and water trucks all start with a push of a button. If the vehicle is locked, well... we all know how they unlocked their hummer in chapter 1.

Not a bad place to resupply.... I can wait to see how it all plays out.

Fletch,
I'm a bit confused. Man,.. this gonna be hard to say without sounding like a dick (sorry). You started off with how easily the base..er, post could be overrun and ended with how much bad ass stuff is there. Again, sorry for sounding like an ass.
I'm not sure how the Army secures their munitions but in the AF all of ours is behind super secure fences guarded by troops with M16's/M4s. M203 and M60/M240 (showing you my age) We typically carried 120 rounds each for a 20 man flight. the Rapid response force or 15/5 (meaning and additional 15 personnel had to respond to the WSA within 5 minutes)The Muns guys have access to the munitions and know which ones are which and the doors to the bunkers open pretty easy when you have the access to get in.
Now, with all that live fire ammo for the tanks and whatnot, it'd be pretty hard to overrun a base..er post so far out and them not be ready for it.
Another thing, you don't even need ammo for a tank. If you have 4 brigades worth of armored vehicles.. they don't need ammo. just drive over them and wash the treds later.

[reaper239]

yeah, but it's hard to deny the appeal of that .50 cal thudding away up there. did you know that in WWII, when the ma deuce was introduced, that the allies didn't even have to enter towns to clear them? they'd start firing the .50 into the town, and because none of the architecture stopped the bullets, the germans would just leave. there was no place to hide, and they didn't want to just sit there and die, so they would leave the town.

btw, regarding fletches post: everyone knows where the ammo is kept. hell when i was a kid on hood i knew where the ammo was kept. when a base is brought to alert, they can act very quickly, or did you forget the EXTREME sphincter tightning imediately following 9/11. i was in germany at the time and, while i happened to be off base when it happened (we lived in government housing on the economy) my mother called and told me i was going to be staying with a friend until she or my father could get home, because they were both trapped on base. of course it was my mother that got home first as my father was still on alert, but that's beside the point. within thirty minutes of the start of the attacks, the base was locked down and the soldiers were armed, live and in color. granted it is a base on foriegn soil, but it is in germany, an ally, and it was a training base. opfor is constantly ready for action as they are doing it all the time, and it doesn't take that long to draw weapons and be at the ready since that is what soldiers train to do. my guess is that it would've taken several hours for the infection to reach irwin, at which point they would have been able to arm and ready themselves. 24 hour news cycle after all, plus the internet, twitter, facebook, word would travel.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Reading that sentence with you in mind made me chuckle aloud. I just think it is stretching it to think that Michael is going mental, as the brits say (or Britts, I dunno if she has said that but I would not put it past her.) He is extremely tired, plus maybe Hope had jambalya too. That was never resolved. Hopefully Kc can answer that for us by the end of the series. lol j/k. But seriously, what did she eat?:p

Hhah and hahah and haahah again. Going mental and being overly stressed are 2 different things. If anyone is going mental, it would be Rilley.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Michael feeding Hope Lady's kibble...that's classic!

Personally, me thinks there is more to Hope than we have been led to believe. I keep wondering back to what she said just before riding the zip line between the Tower and the other building in chapter 24, part 3..."That's a long way." How did she know this?

And wasn't she the last to "see" Pippin alive? I mean, if there was someone who wanted revenge against the maller clan, it was Hope.

Hmmmm.

Glad you liked the joke.
I think Hope said it was a long way because someone told her how far down the zip line was or where it ended ("building across the street"). Why do you believe Hope would have wanted revenge against the Mallers though? As far as I can recall she never had any contact with the Mallers. Her mother was killed by flesh biters in the Arena, and her original Tower was over run by flesh biters (presumably led by Pin Stripes).

[Grognaurd]

In Zombie Fiction, it is classic for the majority of zombies to become zombies because they were biten by zombies. It is a classic exponential pattern of disease spreading. But, the onset of disease affects the plot of the story.

1) Fast: We're alive and "rage-class". Once the disease has erupts to critical mass, it is pretty much unstoppable. But, it essentially burns itself out. It is like Ebola. Easily spread, fast onset of symptoms followed by quick death in the 90% of the people. The natives were aware of Ebola and they would lock-down their village and the outbreak would be snuffed out. If people get sick and die too quickly, it is not very good at spreading past the point source if the population density is low.

** FT. Irwin has a 50 mile passive area-denial weapon of low density. The disease cannot get to the fort quickly so there is a lot of time to prepare. Not a lot of the zombies are going to be smart enough to hitch-hike and even fewer have the self control to not eat the driver. Even TOWTM chowed-down on Paul the moment the door opened.

2) Slow. The classic stuff. Although it spreads very slowly, it is awesome at infiltration. Too many people try to hide the bite and slip through the defensive measures. Then it can raise hell. The story has classic horror features and Lovecraftian paranoia to boot. Early in the outbreak an infected can use societies transportation system to be anywhere igniting another brushfire anywhere in the world in 24 hours.

3) Hybrid: In Ex-heroes Peter Clines' virus is more like the AIDS virus. It does not kill, the secondary infections do. So, one person might get the virus and have the flu. He bites someone and passes on the Flu and the zombie-thing. The new person might have hepatitis.... So, the outbreak evolves slowly and people have the belief that it can be contained, but the acceleration obliterates best laid plans.

We know that the disease is spread by a bite and takes over really really fast. We do not know anything about patient zero(s). I use plural because it errupts in many large cities at once. Did it just hit the first 100 top population centers or did it spark everywhere? This does not fit the fast model with a single point source model. Were a few zombies confined in multiple places and something let them all out at once? Are multiple people infected all over the world with a latent virus that is simultaneously triggered?

Do not know.

But, if we find out that it was an alien invasion were the abductees of the past are taken to the mothership and the rest of humanity subjected to the virus at the same time, to complicate things, the alien invasion happens on the same day as the Rapture so a whole bunch of other people are pulled out on the same day we get whacked with a solar flare that knocks out the satelights, I will be pretty pissed.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

In Zombie Fiction, it is classic for the majority of zombies to become zombies because they were biten by zombies. It is a classic exponential pattern of disease spreading. But, the onset of disease affects the plot of the story.

1) Fast: We're alive and "rage-class". Once the disease has erupts to critical mass, it is pretty much unstoppable. But, it essentially burns itself out. It is like Ebola. Easily spread, fast onset of symptoms followed by quick death in the 90% of the people. The natives were aware of Ebola and they would lock-down their village and the outbreak would be snuffed out. If people get sick and die too quickly, it is not very good at spreading past the point source if the population density is low.

** FT. Irwin has a 50 mile passive area-denial weapon of low density. The disease cannot get to the fort quickly so there is a lot of time to prepare. Not a lot of the zombies are going to be smart enough to hitch-hike and even fewer have the self control to not eat the driver. Even TOWTM chowed-down on Paul the moment the door opened.
---------------------------------------------------
That "buffer" zone is the critical area. The infected have to walk there. The Ft would have had a few troops/dependents coming on to base and turning because they were in town when "IT" hit, but even 50 miles driving is longer than it takes them to turn. Tommy went from zero to sixty in about ten minutes, maybe less. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2) Slow. The classic stuff. Although it spreads very slowly, it is awesome at infiltration. Too many people try to hide the bite and slip through the defensive measures. Then it can raise hell. The story has classic horror features and Lovecraftian paranoia to boot. Early in the outbreak an infected can use societies transportation system to be anywhere igniting another brushfire anywhere in the world in 24 hours.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The classic zombie case would give the base tons of preparation time. Sun Tzu says prepare the battlefield. Well, they'd have crazy advantage with their familiarity with the terrain. Chopper some artillary up to the hills, dig trenches or build dunes (plenty of sand). 50 miles for a walker is a lifetime.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------3) Hybrid: In Ex-heroes Peter Clines' virus is more like the AIDS virus. It does not kill, the secondary infections do. So, one person might get the virus and have the flu. He bites someone and passes on the Flu and the zombie-thing. The new person might have hepatitis.... So, the outbreak evolves slowly and people have the belief that it can be contained, but the acceleration obliterates best laid plans.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loved "Ex Heroes" by the way. I have the sequel in my kindle, but haven't started it yet.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We know that the disease is spread by a bite and takes over really really fast. We do not know anything about patient zero(s). I use plural because it errupts in many large cities at once. Did it just hit the first 100 top population centers or did it spark everywhere? This does not fit the fast model with a single point source model. Were a few zombies confined in multiple places and something let them all out at once? Are multiple people infected all over the world with a latent virus that is simultaneously triggered?

Do not know.

But, if we find out that it was an alien invasion were the abductees of the past are taken to the mothership and the rest of humanity subjected to the virus at the same time, to complicate things, the alien invasion happens on the same day as the Rapture so a whole bunch of other people are pulled out on the same day we get whacked with a solar flare that knocks out the satelights, I will be pretty pissed.


I know KC is gonna go all KC'ish on us and shoot holes all in our military strategies, but I'm going to enjoy it while I can.

[fletch444]

Fletch,
I'm a bit confused. Man,.. this gonna be hard to say without sounding like a dick (sorry). You started off with how easily the base..er, post could be overrun and ended with how much bad ass stuff is there. Again, sorry for sounding like an ass.
I'm not sure how the Army secures their munitions but in the AF all of ours is behind super secure fences guarded by troops with M16's/M4s. M203 and M60/M240 (showing you my age) We typically carried 120 rounds each for a 20 man flight. the Rapid response force or 15/5 (meaning and additional 15 personnel had to respond to the WSA within 5 minutes)The Muns guys have access to the munitions and know which ones are which and the doors to the bunkers open pretty easy when you have the access to get in.
Now, with all that live fire ammo for the tanks and whatnot, it'd be pretty hard to overrun a base..er post so far out and them not be ready for it.
Another thing, you don't even need ammo for a tank. If you have 4 brigades worth of armored vehicles.. they don't need ammo. just drive over them and wash the treds later.

No offense taken and you don't sound like a D***, it's a very intelligent question.... Well... Just because there is a ton of BA stuff there doesn't mean that it isn't easily overrun. I'm just saying that most people have the impression that an army post has a ton of soldiers walking around with tons of ammo. When I was in the army, and was unlucky enough to be put on ammo detail at Ft Irwin, there was no reactionary force and there were only 2 soldiers there with side arms. The rest of the folks who worked at the ammo facility were civilians with out guns. It was pretty much the same on Ft Stewert when I was stationed there. I did get out of the army just before 9-11 so things may have changed, but getting to the ammo is not a simple task. If there are only a couple guys holding weapons, and they would definately be reluctant to shoot especially being stateside. It's unlikely that they would be warned prior to seeing the first zombie.

I definately agree that one could get to the motorpool quickly, jump in an M1 and start crushing zombies.... But how many of the soldiers stationed there can drive a tank, or a Bradly, or an M113 ? The majority of the troops there are support troops who wouldn't know where to even look for the "start" button on an M1 or a Bradley. but the rate of infection and and confusion that must have been happening would be overwheming and would take soldiers by surprise as it did everyone else.

Ultimately, soldiers are people too and would react much in the same way as civilians... they would be disoriented and confused and it would be pretty easy for a bunch of zombies with ever growing number to take over anything. You mentioned that Irwin is really far out. True, but knowing about the zombie outbreak ahead of time I suppose would be the key to wheter or not it would be easy to defend. If they had no warning ahead of time then I would argue that it would be easily overrun.

Running over shi* in an M1 is fun and if it were zombies, that would be even more fun.

[Litmaster]

But, if we find out that it was an alien invasion were the abductees of the past are taken to the mothership and the rest of humanity subjected to the virus at the same time, to complicate things, the alien invasion happens on the same day as the Rapture so a whole bunch of other people are pulled out on the same day we get whacked with a solar flare that knocks out the satelights, I will be pretty pissed.

As will I. I can handle a secret terrorist cell orchestrating a simultaneous bio-attack on worldwide chem-labs that goes horribly wrong, but if KC pulls out anything like alien invasions, time travel, or something out of Revelations... I will be officially pissed!

I don't care if it's cliche. A zombie-inducing genetic disease out of control is fine with me. Bring on the rabies on 'roids.


But--for the love of God-- stay away from aliens.

[nikvoodoo]

Well I for one think Crowbar sounded like a dick.....

Just joshin'!!

And whomever said on the previous page (pardon my laziness) that Hope is more important than we might think, I brought up that exact point on the upcoming WND #27! Now....if my computer didn't eat the file, maybe you'll get to hear it!

[Litmaster]

And whomever said on the previous page (pardon my laziness) that Hope is more important than we might think, I brought up that exact point on the upcoming WND #27! Now....if my computer didn't eat the file, maybe you'll get to hear it!

I'll be sure to give it a listen. There is gotta be a reason to have Hope there, beyond just being a symbolic embodiment (*gag* *puke*)....

Realistically, the main usefulness of a blind girl in the midst of a zombie apocalypse would be as zombie chow, but I doubt Kc has brought her this far just to have Michael chuck her to the Eaters just to buy himself a few more seconds head start...

The only thing I can think of is that she has some super-unique skill that no one else has, something that will be the KEY to unlocking the Whole Enchilada...

A Zombie-Psychic?
Or maybe her pitch-perfect voice can charm them into a passive state?
Or a master on the kazoo who will lead them, lemming-like, off the nearest cliff??
She's really Scratch's daughter and will be the key to unifying the clans???


Ah hell... I dunno.

Maybe she's a blind red herring and will just fall out of the chopper in the next episode. :zombieglomp:

[IamPaul]

I'll be sure to give it a listen. There is gotta be a reason to have Hope there, beyond just being a symbolic embodiment (*gag* *puke*)....

Realistically, the main usefulness of a blind girl in the midst of a zombie apocalypse would be as zombie chow, but I doubt Kc has brought her this far just to have Michael chuck her to the Eaters just to buy himself a few more seconds head start...

The only thing I can think of is that she has some super-unique skill that no one else has, something that will be the KEY to unlocking the Whole Enchilada...

A Zombie-Psychic?
Or maybe her pitch-perfect voice can charm them into a passive state?
Or a master on the kazoo who will lead them, lemming-like, off the nearest cliff??
She's really Scratch's daughter and will be the key to unifying the clans???


Ah hell... I dunno.

Maybe she's a blind red herring and will just fall out of the chopper in the next episode. :zombieglomp:

I have been thinking the same thing about her being somehow related to the Mallers. Or possibly Kalani being a former Maller or acquaintance to Scratch, and Hope being his daughter. Hope could possibly be a phony name, like many of the characters have. Who knows but Kc and his brilliant brain(s).

[Leedo2502]

1538Man oh man... the skids thing.. Arthur you are right my man. We went round and round and around about the copters and posted tons of pictures. Several were posted about the JGG and yes, that puppy has wheels. It only has one door and that's on the right side. Nothing to hold on to other than the "fins."
Next theory...

Damn CrowBar! I missed all the Helicopter talk LOL!

I'm not sure what the guys are going to find at Irwin. I've been there a couple three times. The "Tanks" there are visually modified (VisMod) tanks to look like Soviet era tanks... that means that they take M-113 and put a fiberglass turret on it and take some PVC pipe and make it a tank "cannon". They'd be fine for driving through the hordes of the undead but not much for the way of killing them. Most of the ammunition there is going to be blanks that they use for the huge desert wide laser-tag game they play there. I'm sure that they won't be wanting for ammo though as the guys that are stationed there need to qualify on an annual basis. I'm pretty sure that they've upped the ammount of live fire exersizes they do there as well.

All in all I can't wait to hear what happens tomorrow!

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

[QUOTE=nikvoodoo;33414]Well I for one think Crowbar sounded like a dick.....

Just joshin'!!

ROFL STHU Voodoo! You don't know how many times I rewrote that and it was still hard.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I have been thinking the same thing about her being somehow related to the Mallers. Or possibly Kalani being a former Maller or acquaintance to Scratch, and Hope being his daughter. Hope could possibly be a phony name, like many of the characters have. Who knows but Kc and his brilliant brain(s).

Huh? Huh? and HUH?? related to the mallers? Kalani's daughter? HUH?

[Willy Beamen]

So I guess I have to defend myself in the face of the ass kicking my theory received on the We're not Dead podcast...it's going to be hard to stand up against rhetoric that includes fancy sounding...

[looney]

Here's the thing about Michael being a soldier and taking charge of soldiers. He's an E-5, or as we call them, buck sergeant. In my job (Infantry) a sergeant is in charge of no more than 4 other...

[Willy Beamen]

But Michael is unstable and coming off a huge fail with the tower. He is now projecting blame and acting erratic. I think that we can agree that Michael would enjoy being back in a stable military...

[Willy Beamen]

Yay for Skittles...keep coloring that rainbow buddy :)

[nikvoodoo]

Willy, stop resisting the French Language and it's awesomeness.

Dont get me wrong: Michael has changed. How could he not? He basically killed one tower member by himself by keeping him locked in his room, he lost his two best friends in this crazy world.....but I don't think you can say his hyper paranoia is signs of a mental breakdown. It's awareness of the hell they are living in.

Michael has tried the "keep busy" approach so many times in the past, that I think it's actually refreshing to see him as the one needing a chance to stop and smell the roses. Its a new tactic, and its not necessarily meaning he's coming unglued.

[Alizée]

I love the Fort Irwin theme music! It's my favourite of all the locations, even more so than The Colony's (when they first arrived, anyway) :D