Who is the second person???

[Kahlua85]

Is anybody else curious as to who Scratch was referring to when she mentioned a second hostage? Maybe its me but the last I checked the only person they had was Lizzy. Prior to the collapse of the tower everyone was accounted for. The only people we even know outside of the tower are the Colony, the Mallers and Skittles. We don't like the Colony or the Mallers thus wouldn't care if any of them were held hostage. Skittles has proven useful but would be an odd bargaining chip for the Mallers to use against the tower. Of course then there is the other option that Scratch was merely bluffing to make it seem like she had more to work with. She would do something like that. Just something I caught that I hadn't seen anyone mention.

[ClearSights]

Theres been talk on that subject and many people are leaning towards her baby

[h3half]

/\ That would make sense. Scratch has acted a little odd around Lizzy (less of a total b**ch) and I heard someone else's theory (I forgot who, sorry!) about Lizzy throwing up is something about pregnancy. I'm no expert at pregnant women, but if she is randomly throwing up and that's a sign of pregnancy, that's another point towards that.

Like the OP said, everyone was accounted for prior to the collapse of the Tower. The only other possibility I can see is.... Skittles. If the Mallers got him, they might have gotten him to say he was from "a tower", and (as far as I know) the Mallers have no knowledge of the other tower, so they would naturally think he was talking about the Tower (as in, the one that collapsed just now).

I don't think using Skittles as a bargaining chip would be a good narrative choice, so I would lean towards the baby theory. If we ignore good narrative conventions, Skittles is a possibility.

[Eitri]

Im gonna say Skittles

[dontkillburt]

I think the second person is (was) Hannah.

Scratch wasn't in communication with Hannah's captors before, during or after she was executed in the botched prisoner exchange at the golf course. All the mallers were shot damn near the same time she was. So Scratch may be thinking she still has Hannah as a chess piece to deal with. If this is the case, then that makes Kalani the unwilling (and now dead) maller plantsince his dying words were that "That girl...She was my Hannah".

[Kahlua85]

I think the second person is (was) Hannah...
Scratch may be thinking she still has Hannah as a chess piece to deal with. If this is the case, then that makes Kalani the unwilling (and now dead) maller plantsince his dying words were that "That girl...She was my Hannah".

OMFG your absolutely right! That makes complete sense. It would explain why Kalani would withhold info from the mailers (the choppers) while at the same time giving them other info. It keeps the mallers off his case long enough to give him the chance to acquire the equipment to escape the mallers control with Hannah and start over with the tower. But after she was dead there was no point in his eyes. I mean he'd been the cause of so many deaths. In the mallers raid on the tower there were multiple casualties on both sides and neither side gained anything, it was all for nothing. The way I see it, he was at least trying to make his own death count for something.

[nikvoodoo]

Mr. Whiskers. 150% positive. Mark it down.

[Osiris]

I'm going with Dr. Zhivago.... or maybe Dr. Zaius. Damn... it's hard to say... but definitely some form of doctor.

[nikvoodoo]

I do find it amusing how many people thought Lizzy was pregnant, that Scratch figured it out which is why she was treating Lizzy so much better and protecting her, and then how many people turn around and think it's someone else. Lizzy and The Fabre Bean FTW!(pronounce the end "re" in Fabre with the "uh" sound instead of the long A sound and it sounds distinctly like a fava bean....which is the likely size of the fetus at the point morning sickness hits with a vengeance.)

[Kahlua85]

I do find it amusing how many people thought Lizzy was pregnant, that Scratch figured it out which is why she was treating Lizzy so much better and protecting her, and then how many people turn around and think it's someone else. Lizzy and The Fabre Bean FTW!(pronounce the end "re" in Fabre with the "uh" sound instead of the long A sound and it sounds distinctly like a fava bean....which is the likely size of the fetus at the point morning sickness hits with a vengeance.)
Well Lizzy could actually be pregnant. I don't know if i believe it because the odd of her sickness being attributed to a concussion is just as strong. Throwing up just isn't enough for me. Ive seen ppl throw up from a multitude of things not nearly as dramatic as the things she's experiencing. Not to mention her nearly being raped, that counts as traumatic in my book. Besides Scratch doesn't care about anybody, I doubt a pregnancy would make her soften. In any case I guess what Im saying is I don't believe it but its possible.

[h3half]

"I doubt a pregnancy would make her soften."

She's not getting softer, she has morning sickness. It's a pregnancy thing. Google search; first result says "Morning sickness refers to the nauseated feeling you get during the first trimester of pregnancy."

As for Kalani being a plant by the Mallers, there are more than a few holes in that theory. One, he said he was from Hawaii. We have no reason to disbelieve that, and Burt said they saw a crashed Hawaiian Airlines at LAX. Kalani said that the landing was messy, in more way than one (airplanes are loud, zombies are attracted to sound). Kalani said only three of them made it off (we are assuming Hannah is one of them) and the other tower rescued them. After that, he was there for a few days and then the other tower fell (figuratively, not literally fall like our tower). Then, he was found in the Arena and has been with our survivors ever since.

So he was either lying about where he was/when, when it all adds up perfectly, or he isn't a plant by the Mallers. (Yes, I know he might be lying. But he's being accused with almost no factual evidence. Unless I missed some major fact.)

Big fact up ahead: We have NO evidence that Hannah was the girl that was shot. We know nothing about her except that she was Kalani's girl.

[Chris Osborne]

I agree with the baby idea. I thought the same thing before reading any of these posts, in fact I did a forum search for "pregnant" to see if anyone else had the same ideas and thats how I found this thread LoL. From her unexplained vomiting, Scratch's behavior towards her, etc it just naturally feels that way, to me anyway. Plus Scratch was cryptic about it, never saying who the second person was. It would serve as an excellent plot point in the next season, provided that Saul survived, for him to try even harder to get her back and save her and their child.

[Chris Osborne]

actually, we kinda do have proof that Hannah was the girl that was shot. Having JUST listened to the end of season 2 less than an hour ago, I distinctly remember Kalani saying "That girl.... that was my Hannah". The only unknown girl at this point in the storyline is the girl that was shot at the golf course. It also cant be coincidence that right after seeing an unnamed girl get shot by mallers that Kalani, who to this point has been all about self-preservation, decides he has nothing to live for and might as well take some mallers out with him?

As for the holes in the theory of Kalani being a plant, well they arent holes so much as pinpricks. Skittles recognized Kalani. Kalani admits he was in the first tower, we can logically assume Skittles was too... but why would Kalani deny knowing Skittles when he and Angel run into him while trying to get the MREs unless there was something to hide. He was also in the tower when Pippen got shot and is one of the few whos whereabouts couldnt be confirmed by anyone else, since he was supposedly working by himself at the time.

As for how he is tied to the mallers, how they got Hannah, etc I dont know. Its possible that the mallers picked up some of the survivors of the first tower and kept them as slaves, we wont know for sure until Season 3 when, hopefully, someone reads Kalani's journal... if it survived.

[Cabbage Patch]

I just re-listened to Chapter 2. There's a point in it when Michael describes carrying the bodies of dead zombies up to the second floor to throw them off a balcony, and he mentions that he, Riley and Datu all threw up in the process. I was just wondering if that means that they're all pregnant?

[Chris Osborne]

I just re-listened to Chapter 2. There's a point in it when Michael describes carrying the bodies of dead zombies up to the second floor to throw them off a balcony, and he mentions that he, Riley and Datu all threw up in the process. I was just wondering if that means that they're all pregnant?

Well seeing as how while shes captive and theres NO mention of her moving bodies, that kina shoots Shirley sized holes in your theory :P LoL

[Dameon1213]

it is either kalani or it is burt, they say "he" is in bad shape but still breathing " i would say it is more burt then kalani for the simple fact that he didnt dive face first into a tanker of gas at a high rate of speed, while simultaneously combusting and exploding, granted, if he lived through that i would say he is just to bad ass and would have to take burts place in my heart as the only other person that can make chuck norris squeal like a little girl.

[nikvoodoo]

it is either kalani or it is burt, they say "he" is in bad shape but still breathing " i would say it is more burt then kalani for the simple fact that he didnt dive face first into a tanker of gas at a high rate of speed, while simultaneously combusting and exploding, granted, if he lived through that i would say he is just to bad ass and would have to take burts place in my heart as the only other person that can make chuck norris squeal like a little girl.

Honest question with no snark meant: If you think it's Burt, who do you think "The Old Man" is? The person/whatever was found during the post credit sequence was told to be put with the Old Man.

[Dameon1213]

oh derp, i am sorry i forgot about that part, i listened to it once and i think over time my names got flipped, what i ment was not burt but Saul. Good catch voodoo thank you. (not sarcasm)

[Amisiel]

Darn here I was hoping pegs would be the first one to bring a new baby into the world :(

[Cemetery Man]

I like the hanah theory, but the one that has not come up is Samantha. When scratch goes to the arena to blew it up, a living samantha gets away and end up with scratch. Samantha does know not to talk to scratch and she spills her guts about her love for datu of the tower.

[7oddisdead]

I like the hanah theory, but the one that has not come up is Samantha. When scratch goes to the arena to blew it up, a living samantha gets away and end up with scratch. Samantha does know not to talk to scratch and she spills her guts about her love for datu of the tower.

There's a good reason for that, KC has made it quite clear that Samantha is quite dead...bubble/busted :)

[Cemetery Man]

How did I miss that. I recall she got taken in the arena, we hear her scream, datu say "don't look datu, don't look" but I never recal confirmation that she was killed. All this time I have been thinking she could make a come back.

[nikvoodoo]

How did I miss that. I recall she got taken in the arena, we hear her scream, datu say "don't look datu, don't look" but I never recal confirmation that she was killed. All this time I have been thinking she could make a come back.

It was a hotly debated topic earlier this year. Kc confirmed it beyond a shadow of a doubt in May. (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?1730-Do-you-think-their-is-any-hope-for-Samantha&p=17676&viewfull=1#post17676)

[Cemetery Man]

It was a hotly debated topic earlier this year. Kc confirmed it beyond a shadow of a doubt in May. (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?1730-Do-you-think-their-is-any-hope-for-Samantha&p=17676&viewfull=1#post17676)

So it wart not part of the story? What the author says outside of the wa doesn't count, he could just be bluffing us out.

[nikvoodoo]

So it wart not part of the story? What the author says outside of the wa doesn't count, he could just be bluffing us out.

Kc enjoys toying with us. He hems and haws often around here, or stays silent. He never comes out and makes a declaration. So while I understand that is going to add fuel to your argument's fire, I'm going to side with Kc on this one personally.

Besides, if you listen closely....you can hear it. I'm pretty sure you can hear the death around 5:45-5:55 in 10-3.

[Teethingbiscuit]

It was a hotly debated topic earlier this year. Kc confirmed it beyond a shadow of a doubt in May. (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?1730-Do-you-think-their-is-any-hope-for-Samantha&p=17676&viewfull=1#post17676)
Well, now if Samantha comes back it will confirm the walkers are dead and not something between.
teeth

[Miss]

Well since KC has said Samantha is dead, Iv never thought it was her as the second person, I suppose Lizzie COULD be carrying Saul's baby, I mean the timeline in theory could work May to Aug but it took Lizzie a long whille to give in to Saul and his moves since she was dealing with the loss of Todd, I doubt that it would factor into any of the Maller's plans, Now with Skittles, it is the most likely choice bbuuttt if he is good enough to keep from getting caught by the zombies why would he be "easly" caught by humans, the whole fight or flight theory

[Adventureless_Hero]

I'm going to assume that it's Lizzie's embryonic rockabilly polka-dotted fighter pilot baby (Conan reference, you dig?) Anyway, I'm staking my flag in that claim only because 1)how would Kalani know about the death of the girl at the golf course, 2) how can you be sure this girl is even Hanah, 3) even if Kalani knew about the girls execution, how could he be certain it was his hanah? Is every red haired girl named hanah all of a sudden?, 4) I place commas after question marks, 5) Tardust asks "What about her?" referring to Lizzie, but he never says, "What about this other prisoner dude we have tied up over here" nor does any other maller seem to have contact with a prisoner standing next to them. Seems all the slaves got wiped out in the park attack, 6) I'm sorry but it is very obvious that Scratch totally flipped her bitch switch to the low setting once she realized Lizzie was puking. Sympathy from the devil for carrying a baby? Pershamps. Could be Scratch is barren and intendes to raise the little bugger as her own (okay thats a stretch). 7) i think I have more but I'm leaving my office so I'll cut it short there.

[Spazzticx]

At 22:52 scratch mentions that she had 2 people from the tower, I know one is lizzy but who do you think is the 2nd?

[nikvoodoo]

At 22:52 scratch mentions that she had 2 people from the tower, I know one is lizzy but who do you think is the 2nd?

merged from another thread in another section. :)

[Grognaurd]

Winston Churchill Said that the Truth is so precious that it must be protected by a body guard of lies. SunZu wrote much about mistdirection. I could go on, but I will go back to my Buddy Burt, we think a lot alilke for good and bad. But Burt says,

Have you forgotten who is this bitch is? She just tried to fuck us over 10 minutes ago....

So, Maybe Scratch is not telling the truth. If it is screwing with us, how much will it screw with the characters?

Another take is that she is not lieing, but she might be mistaken. What if Scratch caught someone from the other tower. This person would not know that they are actually from The Other Tower. We have a name from the other tower. CJ, their leader and a woman. She will be known by Hope and Angel and Michael will have heard the name from Kalani at least once about a month ago.

So, with no known people missing from THE Tower (at the time of the quote).
Unable to believe that Scracth knows that Lizzy is pregnant after only a month of sexual relations with Saul.
Accepting Scratch's believe as true that she has someone from The Tower *but is acutally The OTHER Tower, hmm... maybe call it ToT to reduce confusion?)
Knowing only one other name from ToT and my strong belief that anything mentioned in well planned Episodic Stories is Important Foreshadowing.

Say it with me now,
CJ.

[Professor Woland]

The second person has been hinted at as being female by one of Scratch's comments.

At first I though it was going to be Kelly, but that could be too obvious.

[reaper239]

kelly is with the choppa crew.

btw idk if anyone didn't get to this during the season finale:

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs22/f/2008/019/d/0/Get_to_tha_Choppa_by_linkzone.jpg

[Professor Woland]

kelly is with the choppa crew.

btw idk if anyone didn't get to this during the season finale:

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs22/f/2008/019/d/0/Get_to_tha_Choppa_by_linkzone.jpg

I thought we were trying to guess the second traitor in the tower, the one who killed Pippen

[reaper239]

oh wait a minute, i thought this was about who the second captive was that they had. disregard.

[nikvoodoo]

I thought we were trying to guess the second traitor in the tower, the one who killed Pippen


oh wait a minute, i thought this was about who the second captive was that they had. disregard.

The original purpose of this thread was to talk about who the Second Hostage might be. Not the second traitor (if there is a second traitor).

[Professor Woland]

The original purpose of this thread was to talk about who the Second Hostage might be. Not the second traitor (if there is a second traitor).

Sorry, my bad!

[Raven]

Where was the hint that both hostages were female? I know Scratch refers to we already have HER (Lizzie) is there another mention that I may have missed making the second hostage a female? Darn those subtle pronouns If it turns out to be 2 woman my bet is Hanna/h because I think Scratch is clever enough to figure out that if there was a girl leading a tower CJ it would not have been the same tower that she wants to bring down and she would not give up the bargaining chip that was Hanna if you ALSO assume that Kalani was one of the rats and she didn't think he would go out with a bang the way he did.

[nikvoodoo]

Sorry, my bad!

Ain't no thang. Without looking back through....I almost promise you this thread has meandered off course.....they tend to do that by nature ;)

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Ain't no thang. Without looking back through....I almost promise you this thread has meandered off course.....they tend to do that by nature ;)

ahaha. Yaa mule.. yaaa!
That's why we have you Nik.. keeping the wagon train in line.