Where Zombies are Born

[LoneSurvivor]

When Kolani and Riley go into the hospital looking for the generators, they come across the bloodsoaked operating tables with needles and things, as well as a zombie (I think I recall it being the pinstriped one, the most dangerous of them all?). Am I the only one who thinks that it's operating on humans while they are 'Turning' and making them the different types of zombies we see (aka runners, jumpers, behemoths, etc)? Surely they aren't all changing on their own, especially considering that no new zombies are being seen in areas outside LA (for example the Colony has only seen normals). Which would mean that the pinstriped one is the key to the whole ordeal and taking him out would stop new zombies from being formed, and all the adaptation would stop, making it easier for the humans to take out the flesh-biters once they found a suitable strategy. Obviously Ground Zero is something special, considering the unbreathable air, but is that a side-effect of the birth of the flesh-biters, of all the things that is/did go on there, or is it a new breed of zombie? Which also leads us to the question: how do the humans deal with them?

[Elliot Strawbridge]

I think that the conclusion that new zombies are the result of "operating" on infected humans is a dead end. No matter how hyper intelligent Pinstripes is, he could still barely figure out the key pad on the towers front door.

If this is the case, that pinstripes is "making" these new zombies, I think its more likely that it has something to do with what's going on in the arena. There's probably a biological process through which these enhanced mutations are occurring that goes beyond "a really smart zombie is using needles and scalpels and stuff to make better zombies."

There's something to be said about the fact that a behemoth was in the arena even though skittles makes mention that the normal zombies never go near the behemoths. It's also a point of order that the little ones look like they were never human. Could they be animals? Could the virus have mutated? Could they be children? It remains to be seen.

However, I do get the feeling that there are worse things than pinstripes and the other zombies in ground zero. The area itself is design to ward off intruders. Right now we don't know if prolonged exposure to the air there causes zombification, but its a place that is designed to keep humans away.

[LoneSurvivor]

Also don't forget that there were behemoths in the hospital (they see them approaching through the windows when they first are seen coming back). But surely there is a reason that all the mutations are happening in LA for a reason. Something is in LA that can't be found elsewhere. And just because it had some difficulty with the numberpad doesn't mean much. Its able to talk and understand numbers on its own. Plus the difference between understanding the numbers and changing the physiology of a body are two very separate ideas. The marked one is clearly some sort of genius, and so far it seems to be the chief threat to humanity (though I agree, I think there is worse in Ground Zero). The Mallers have not encountered the pinstriped ones themselves, they simply know that many of the zombies are based in the arena and that seems to be a sort of hq for them, hence why they attacked them. Through all the previous encounters with them they had no idea about all the specials running around, for example no idea that they could set traps like both towers found which requires the smart zombies. As far as I know these are the different kinds that exist: normals, smarties, behemoths, runners, jumpers (only one so far), fingered ones/little ones (mallers encountered them on way to attack arena when ambushed by pinstriped one). When our Tower was attacked, the pinstriped one saw them first and so sent his experimental jumper, the runners they encountered I think with the Hummer returning from the arena for the first time. All these different things were centered upon the pinstriped one and the arena. Obviously he has moved to st. jude's hospital or has multiple bases in case one is attacked like it was; or perhaps the arena was only used for entertainment or traps since it was such a fortress. I don't think that they could be animals since the animals all seem to be alive and well throughout this thing, and marcus at the colony had dogs who could take on turned children that he couldn't without fear of themselves turning. I don't see how these new infected could all be coming from the arena though, from the sheer number of these new guys they would have run out of the humans used in the arena before they got to the quantities seen throughout the story. And that would leave to question where did these new little ones come from? The only thing I could think of is mallers were captured in the War and just now are returning. Even if this theory is incorrect, what could the marked one be using those blood soaked tables for? They are clearly being used by it for some devious purpose or another. What if it just wants to be friends with the humans and give them a nice hug lol? Something important is going down there, and the only thing that might be important enough right now in the context of the story is the creation of new things. :yay:

[h3half]

Well, I think most people would agree that understanding the connection between a 4-digit combination being yelled to you and numbers on a keypad in front of you is much more basic than being able to, well... be a surgeon and literally combine more than one zombie into more than one (that's what I imagined what you were describing, might be just be).

Another theory is; ever heard of the Elephant Man? (John Merrick, if my recollection of the Barenaked Ladies song is correct)
It was a guy that had really deformed body parts and proportions (he eventually died because he tried to sleep laying down and his weight broke his neck). This was one isolated incident and I have no idea if it's happened since, if we've found a cure, etc. All I know is that maybe whatever the zombie virus is might have the ability to really really mess with the appearance of someone.

Just pointing out that there are diseases that can mess up your appearance, so that might be part of why there are so many different "breeds" of zombies.

[Seaweedhunter]

Does anyone think it's possible that all of the "Specials" (Runners, behemoths etc.) started off as normals, but somehow developed their abilities through some sort of exposure? As in, too much time at ground zero? Humans felt sick there, maybe there is something in the air there that alters cells. Just a thought.
And on another note, Skittles told Angel and Kalani jumpers were beginning to go extinct. I mean, surely the Zombies aren't exempt from natural selection. Maybe the jumpers limbs were too easily broken, so they couldn't hunt as well as the other types and died off.

[Bray]

Yeah I thought that about the jumpers. Miss judge a jump and you probably end up breaking a very big fall with your face.

Plus they would totally negate any conventional defence at ft irwin in the way of fences etc. Come to think of it would they have been able to jump over the colonies walls?

[Mo Jiwa]

I find myself leaning toward the scientific/medical explanation for the Zombies - as there was no recorded nuclear fallout or explosion etc... that might explain it. No asteroids landing or bombs going off etc.

What's interesting however, is that it spread so far in such a short space of time, much more than one would think if it had only happened in one science lab in one city.
So perhaps it was a county-wide (or even country-wide) experiment for a cure, or weapon, or something, that went completely wrong.
e.g. if CDC were working on a cure for something, injected it into loads of animals across various smaller centres throughout the country to be able to gather more evidence (as there would be a greater populous).
And then, when it went wrong... it went wrong everywhere. Meaning that the "Arena" may not be the only hotspot of zombie activity in the county, but certainly for that area if the facility was close by - or underground.

As for the different classes of zombies, it may be due to another theory flying around (from other zombie related literature/media out there), that they may be "evolving" in a sense based on their current mental and physical capacity. Some people are just stronger than others/faster/smarter/athletic etc... And maybe these traits are not only retained, but enhanced (physically at least... mentally enhanced in comparison to the other undead).

But those are just ideas.

[Neil]

Just wanted to toss this out there re: the variety of zombies. Has it been discussed yet that the differences could arise from a certain chemical being injected into the human during the turning process? Some species of animals (like ants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant#Development_and_reproduction)) are able to predetermine what kind of ant will develop from a larva by giving the larva different types of food. Could this be similar to the zombies?

While I doubt the pinstriped zombie is smart enough to carry out genetic experiments, I have no problem believing it, or perhaps a Queen Zombie, is able to inject some sort of organic compound into a human while it's being turned in order to create specialized zombies. It goes without saying that I think the Queen or Pinstripes would have to have some sort of biological way of creating and injecting the compound, not unlike a snake with it's fangs and venom sack.

Just a thought. Now I should actually get some work done here at work:)

Neil

[reaper239]

that's actually a really good theory. somewhere on the forums we talked about the zed having some kind of psychic connection. if that's true, perhaps the pinstripe or ink or whoever's in charge can...

[Eviebae]

So, What if it's where zombies give birth! As in they eat, sleep and excrete, so why not have zombie babies? Enhanced birth that's shorter and the kids leap out of the womb--or dig themselves out.

Dah! Dah! Duuuuuuuuuum!

[7oddisdead]

hmm...somehow i missed this thread

the thing i keep thinking about when it comes to creature types is...we witnessed what happens when a normal human is turned with tommy during the war. he was just your standard fare zombie. while many(including myself) love to go long tangents about the special types and so forth, i cant help thinking in a slightly different direction.

perhaps the "special" types are simply ones that were turned very early on? genetically altering physical structure or an evolution of sorts seems to be happening(im a strong proponant of the evolution theory). so when the earliest bitten find their niche within the undead hierachy, what remains of their physical being begins to shift, to adapt to the enviroment they have based themselves in. so in theory, given enough time all the undead will become "special" in one way or another.

the idea of a "birth" of a zombie isnt that far out of line. it just all depends on how you define birth. if we are saying little dead babies growing into adults, heh...no. ill not buy that for any amount of dollars. now, if we are speaking in reguards to the virus or whatever you choose to believe is making rotten corpses walk, (in some special cases)talk, and generally behave like assholes..then yea..im on board with that.

many excellent sci fi stories have been written revolving around a alien virus infecting a human body and essentially taking control of the host, the biggest difference here is the host has "ceased to be". while i for one would hate to bring anything alien into this story, the premise doesn't seem too far off. the victim is bitten, then after a brief gestation period the "whatever this is" zombie is "born" from there....all it can do is evolve. there's numerous points within the story where you can see behaviours ranging from simple ant behaviour(the arena, ive explored the ant angle in a dumb amount of detail in the crackpot thread) to pack behaviour(hunting parties,ambushes) to decidedly human behaviour (it's paul/on the rink within the arena). smells like evolution to me...or growing up..from birth to undeath.

guess i kinda wemt on a tangent again...oops:)

[Grognaurd]

I have to disagree 7odd. Tommy turned into a smart one. Unless ordered, have we ever seen a normal zombie retreat?

By trying to get away he displays two acts that show intelligence. One, run away for self preservation. Two, this may not have been an intent, but it could be. Wrecking the emergency which may help in the horde with storming the tower.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Yeah I thought that about the jumpers. Miss judge a jump and you probably end up breaking a very big fall with your face.

Plus they would totally negate any conventional defence at ft irwin in the way of fences etc. Come to think of it would they have been able to jump over the colonies walls?


Jumping UP and leaping at a distance are two different things so I'm going to say no to jumping over the walls.

[yarri]

Just wanted to toss this out there re: the variety of zombies. Has it been discussed yet that the differences could arise from a certain chemical being injected into the human during the turning process? Some species of animals (like ants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant#Development_and_reproduction)) are able to predetermine what kind of ant will develop from a larva by giving the larva different types of food. Could this be similar to the zombies?

While I doubt the pinstriped zombie is smart enough to carry out genetic experiments, I have no problem believing it, or perhaps a Queen Zombie, is able to inject some sort of organic compound into a human while it's being turned in order to create specialized zombies. It goes without saying that I think the Queen or Pinstripes would have to have some sort of biological way of creating and injecting the compound, not unlike a snake with it's fangs and venom sack.


Neil

This is a great theory. I could see Pinstripe zombie being a catalyst and changing humans with potential into a jumper/runner/ big one etc. Of all the zombies we've seen so far he's unique and as of yet all his "abilities" haven't been fully understood. We know he's fast, smarter then the smart ones and he can talk as well as reason things out such as the keypad. It wouldn't be a far stretch to see him or his bite as "different" in what it can change.

I also think that the smart ones are not ones Pinstripe can create I think that if we use the virus idea that 7odd offered up. I say they are the result of potential of the victim and how they respond to it which is why we see more normal zombies then the smart ones.

[Test subject 9]

I have to disagree 7odd. Tommy turned into a smart one. Unless ordered, have we ever seen a normal zombie retreat?

By trying to get away he displays two acts that show intelligence. One, run away for self preservation. Two, this may not have been an intent, but it could be. Wrecking the emergency which may help in the horde with storming the tower.
It could have only been heightened self preservation responce and not intelligence. First play dead then flee when found out, its not intelligent because he fleed toward a danger that was known but not seen.

[7oddisdead]

I kind of have to agree with 9 here, just the fight or flight instict in my mind does not constitute intelligence..but I do have to question how many "levels" of intelligence have we seen?

[Grognaurd]

Pretty much every X-humans we have seen has attacked on sight.

TOWTM has not on several occasion
In the Arena the ones that came for Datu etal did not
In the Arena the average Joes and Beheomeths did not fight
Randy and his crew did not
In the war there was a general retreat
When Burt and Saul clear the tower season 1 and Rileys describes the Hospital Season 2 one that attempts to call more zombies rather than attack

Not attacking is rare. Retreating even more so

The smarter one is in the life the smarter one is in death. As a zombie or as a boy, Tommy was far from average.

[Raven]

Arthur you also forgot to bring up the first time he showed up. When Saul, Lizzie and Burt found the ambushed caravan he was just watching them admiring his handy work from the top of the dinner. Which brings up a point in that episode was it trying to say that he actually drove the car (which I don't believe) or that he coordinated and possibly steered it into position with the minion zombies following command?

[Grognaurd]

Good point Raven. TOWTM / ImNotPaul / Pinstripes has done many exceptional things, so I left it vague. I do not think he controls the zombies like a puppet master. But, I believe he can strongly affect behavior. Sorta like Zombie Charisma or something.

Skittles said the big ones always fight the normals and all the normals do is eat. That is typical behavior of the zombie-trash. But they are different around HIM and Randy.

Which has always begged the question are there different factions of zombies? TOWTM is a boss. Does Randy follow HIM or is Randy independent?

[Test subject 9]

It could be like an ant colony. Michael even brought it up in an episode. If the virus regresses the human mind to a more basic state it would be easy to make parallels to animal behavior and structure.

[minty]

i think the one with the markings is makeing all the others!!!! i think he was at the hospital trying to creat a new type of human, it went wrong and backfired and he got the full blast of it!:mad: