Tower Collapse (Who survived)

[TheSpectre]

As we all know the Tower collapsed and survivors were still on the Tower when it did. But, this show all about surprise. We might still see people that survive the attack. My opinion, at least Burt OR Angel survived. Scratch did find the "old man" but is he alive?

[Don Man]

Angel still has an unexplained past and he has Kalani's journal so to me he has to survive and Burt i doubt he is dead i dont think kc would give him a cheap death like that

[nikvoodoo]

Angel still has an unexplained past and he has Kalani's journal so to me he has to survive and Burt i doubt he is dead i dont think kc would give him a cheap death like that

Angel does not have Kalani's journal/whatever the other object was. It was put in Hope's backpack along with Lady. He said "I'll put these in there" or something like that before Hope went across the line.

[Don Man]

Angel does not have Kalani's journal/whatever the other object was. It was put in Hope's backpack along with Lady. He said "I'll put these in there" or something like that before Hope went across the line.

I must have missed that part but who can blame me there was soo much to take in

[Nazario Jose Lopez]

What did Kalani say? I heard him say "I'm sorry about the flat tire" but before that he said something else..

[BabySniffer]

I'm fine with anyone dying except for Saul, and Bert, they can't die, I love them too much. Plus the whole thing with Lizzie is un-resolved, and they're the main go-getters for her.

[WestonWisdom]

Did Emmerson, the gardener, die?


Scratch could be talking about him.

As for Lt. Tanudo?

Looks like he is a............

Fallen Angel

[phobiarg]

If you listen at the VERY end when Bricks found someone who was in rough shape, it sounded like metal almost like an aircraft? My money is its Kalani.

[ryanlm09]

So, everyone else in the tower that got in the car died? I couldn't tell

[Nazario Jose Lopez]

So, everyone else in the tower that got in the car died? I couldn't tell

Everything happened too fast.. I didn't catch it either.

[zombiederek]

Yeah I think that the car was blown up by the RPG or it was gunned down

[andrew_huber]

Everything happened too fast.. I didn't catch it either.

So, everyone else in the tower that got in the car died? I couldn't tell

the rpg landed next to the hummer making it flip over

[AdrianHD]

If you listen at the VERY end when Bricks found someone who was in rough shape, it sounded like metal almost like an aircraft? My money is its Kalani.

I don't see why. He got his moment and he is no more use to the story. The most we'll see from Kalani in season 3 is him reading his journal as a flashback episode.

[HardKor]

So, everyone else in the tower that got in the car died? I couldn't tell
There were zombies outside the Tower the whole time. The car got overrun when they tried to escape. Then more zombies flooded into the garage.

[BabySniffer]

If you listen at about 37:40 Saul reads from a journal entry about the RPG explosion; does this mean we can assume he's alive? I don't think so, Kc a tricky devil., but I hope he is.

[BabySniffer]

Oh wait crap, sorry for double post, but I didn't even relise this, saul talks after the explosion, and they end up running. Silly me :P

[TheSpectre]

If they were at the helo crash sight when scratch says "found the old man", I could further prove that Kalani was the rat.

[andrew_huber]

If they were at the helo crash sight when scratch says "found the old man", I could further prove that Kalani was the rat.

how would that further prove it

[Lusimania]

Kalani is dead, no doubt about that. He told Angel sorry about the flat tire and told him to grab his notebook. Theres not a better way to die than crashing into a oil truck, thus saving his newly found towermates he loved. There must of been something really important in that journal, mabe his confessions so he is best left dead.

Saul and Victor are still alive. Based on what I heard the Hummer flipped because of the RPG. They ran off into th distance probably going off to save Lizzy.

Burt fell off because the top fell loose and burned off. No way he burned because the towers tankers were in the middle and Burt fell of near the building. In the end they said to put another person by the old man. Scratch calls Burt old man, so we can assume he is alive but in bad shape.

Angel got stuck and was in the tower when it caved in. If Scratch found him in the end we can assume he is the rat. He is probably still alive.

Everyone else in the tower that rode the car is dead. They died in a wreck, explosion or zombies over running them.

[Ra1th]

Kalani is dead, no doubt about that. He told Angel sorry about the flat tire and told him to grab his notebook. Theres not a better way to die than crashing into a oil truck, thus saving his newly found towermates he loved. There must of been something really important in that journal, mabe his confessions so he is best left dead.

Saul and Victor are still alive. Based on what I heard the Hummer flipped because of the RPG. They ran off into th distance probably going off to save Lizzy.

Burt fell off because the top fell loose and burned off. No way he burned because the towers tankers were in the middle and Burt fell of near the building. In the end they said to put another person by the old man. Scratch calls Burt old man, so we can assume he is alive but in bad shape.

Angel got stuck and was in the tower when it caved in. If Scratch found him in the end we can assume he is the rat. He is probably still alive.

Everyone else in the tower that rode the car is dead. They died in a wreck, explosion or zombies over running them.

Why do you assume Angel is the rat? If Angel was the rat and he was helping the mallers, then why would he rally the tower to defend against the maller attack? If he was the traitor he'd do the exact opposite, and open the tower up so the mallers would win without a fight.

If Angel was the rat then he has had a 100 chances to completely ruin the tower and he's failed to do so.

If your argument is that Angel is the rat, but he had a change of heart, it still won't work because whoever the rat was, he/she killed Pippin and we've debated that topic to death and the almost universally accepted opinion is that Angel couldn't have been the one to cut the wire and make it back to kill pippin.

Scratch knows exactly who the traitors to the tower are, there's no reason for her to keep up a ruse with angel for so long if he was the rat

[Th3_T3ch]

As much as it pains me to say/type this. Kalani was the rat. Angel never had the time to be the rat. Angel and Burt are most likely still alive as scratch says something to the effect of "I've found what I was looking for". Burt is always referred to as "old man" by Scratch, so he's alive and in bad shape (also they have sherly if they have him). Saul and Victor went running off after the Hummer got flipped (goodbye hummer, you lasted two seasons). Also, Angel wasn't IN the tower when it fell, he was ON TOP of it. Also, I believe Mr. Wiskers is still alive (he's a fighter).

[Ra1th]

well we don't know where Angel was when the tower collapsed, Michael didn't see him on the roof, as far as we know he could a pull a michael at the water pumping station and pop up next season with a broken arm and just not want to talk about it.

The fact that they have burt's identifiable body means a lot imo because, if burt had fell 14 floors from the roof of the tower, or even 5 or 6 floors near the other building (i'm taking a wild guess here on the height of the other building) , there would be less of a body and more of a splat. That kind of force would crush every bone in your body. So the fact that they have his body, be he dead or alive, it means he didn't fall straight down. He was traveling via zipline yes? So maybe the momentum he had threw him through a window of the other building?

[TheSpectre]

I like the "Burt going through a window" theory. Its very possible that heroine have swung instead of just falling straight down. But why would he be found in ruble? If I remember correctly, Scratch was walking through, what sounded like, ruble. Maybe Burt hit something that would cushion the fall a bit. Just enough to survive the fall but take major injuries.

[nikvoodoo]

I like the "Burt going through a window" theory. Its very possible that heroine have swung instead of just falling straight down. But why would he be found in ruble? If I remember correctly, Scratch was walking through, what sounded like, ruble. Maybe Burt hit something that would cushion the fall a bit. Just enough to survive the fall but take major injuries.

We don't know where The Old Man was found. All we know is the mallers are in possession of him. Whomever they found in the rubble wasn't the old man because they already had possession of him when they found....whomever it is they discovered in the remnants of the Tower.

As for him getting through a window....do we know what the adjacent Tower is? Was it an apartment building? Was it an office building? I mean ultimately either way, I have a hard time picturing Burt being able to break through a window with his momentum. He would have been controlling his zip across to the other rooftop and not going at breakneck or free fall speed. I'm not positive he would have had enough speed going to break a window.

Besides we hear him as he falls but I didn't hear a glass breaking sound. There are reasons we wouldn't hear that sound, but it not being there means its less likely he made it into a window. But of course...we did hear him narrate during the conflict so....who knows. Other than Kc and Shane of course.

[Lusimania]

First, What I meant with Angel being the rat was when Scratch said she found what she was looking for it would be the rat. BUT theres alot more signs pointing to Angel being the rat than Kalani.

Two, Burt lived cause he narrated or however you spell that. Plus he even mentions the chapter before he has a reason for living.

Three, Kalani cant be the rat since hes from the Colony and was stuck in the Arena. Unless the Maulers planned his escape it is very unlikely EVEN if this girl named Hannah was kidnapped by the Maulers.

[Magrat]

If you listen at about 37:40 Saul reads from a journal entry about the RPG explosion; does this mean we can assume he's alive? I don't think so, Kc a tricky devil., but I hope he is.

On a similar note, Burt also narrates, as if from a journal entry, when he's trying to steady his hand to shoot. Does this equal not dead? Fingers crossed.

[Leet693]

I don't think Angel or Burt is dead but who was the other Tower occupant that Scratch had? I think Hannah was the redhead they shot at the golf course but that's just my guess

[Ra1th]

First, What I meant with Angel being the rat was when Scratch said she found what she was looking for it would be the rat. BUT theres alot more signs pointing to Angel being the rat than Kalani.

Two, Burt lived cause he narrated or however you spell that. Plus he even mentions the chapter before he has a reason for living.

Three, Kalani cant be the rat since hes from the Colony and was stuck in the Arena. Unless the Maulers planned his escape it is very unlikely EVEN if this girl named Hannah was kidnapped by the Maulers.

what signs for angel being the rat?

[WestonWisdom]

what signs for angel being the rat?

Oh boy here we go.

[zzfist]

the two ppl scratch has is lizzy and hannah who kalani must be forced to rat out for. Kalani was the rat since the first attack cause on forth of july everyone was drunk except him. He wouldnt drink that night cause he knew what to expect. Since then he did trust the ppl in the tower more. Sacrificing himself to blowing up the tanker with the helicopter which no way could survive.

[Castaway5]

Why can't the Rat be Kelly?

She was a lawyer so its possible she had connections with the convicts before this.
She was a pain in the ass UNTIL Tommy died when the mallers attacked them. Then she was suddenly super helpful.
She had no alibi when Pippen was killed.

[reaper239]

kelly isn't the type. rats are two faced, meaning they show you one thing while doing something else. example, pippin showed up super nice and trustworthy, but we know he was a rat because we were told as much before he arrived in the tower. kelly was straight mean before tommy died and then mellowed out, i think because she finally connected with the other survivors. when tommy died, matters were urgent but people still tried (at least a little) to console her. she also had that moment with michael on the roof. the point is if she was selling them out there would have been signs because she is a very direct person. those type don't make the best liars.

[andrew_huber]

plus when pippin was being interviewed kelly was there reading him to tell if he was lieing so if she was the rat pippin might have said something

[Pieman]

There is still a chance Angel is still alive, because there oftentimes in building collapses there are survivors, such as in 9/11.

[ShadowXOR]

So did they just leave the "fake" prisoner in the prison and he died in the tower collapse? That's some serious BS if so. They totally dropped that story arch unless I'm missing something.

[zzfist]

So did they just leave the "fake" prisoner in the prison and he died in the tower collapse? That's some serious BS if so. They totally dropped that story arch unless I'm missing something.

few episodes ago someone came to the prisoner and killed him during a huge distraction with the alarm and hope was the only one there to "hear" it go down. It was a pretty big ending to that episode.

[ShadowXOR]

few episodes ago someone came to the prisoner and killed him during a huge distraction with the alarm and hope was the only one there to "hear" it go down. It was a pretty big ending to that episode.

I'm not talking about Pippin, I"m talking about the guy they "fake" arrested as a trick to get the tower to relax about the murder saying they had acquired him to keep the peace. He was just a fake and didn't actually do it, they still don't know who did. THey had him locked up.

[HardKor]

I'm not talking about Pippin, I"m talking about the guy they "fake" arrested as a trick to get the tower to relax about the murder saying they had acquired him to keep the peace. He was just a fake and didn't actually do it, they still don't know who did. THey had him locked up.

It appears poor Lewis got left in his "cell" But he will never be forgotten. (http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?2184-Wall-of-the-Fallen-%28-a-place-to-say-good-bye%29-take-2&p=25791#post25791)

[zombeh-kitteh]

My thoughts on this:

1. Kelly I don't think is a rat(s)<--b/c obviously there's a couple. She was a lawyer before all this happened, and divorced and childless. She was babysitting when all this happened, and the only link to her normal human life was Tommy. Therefore, using her tough lawyer "I'm in control, nothing bothers me, I eat judges and attorneys for lunch" act, she did her thing. Once Tommy was dead however, she lost what little control she had and dropped her act.

2. Kalani. Wow. Lots of heavy sh!t happened in just a few seconds of dialog! "Sorry about the flat tire." "That girl, she was my Hannah..." "There's something in Bill's desk that I want you to have..." There are signs that point to his involvement with the Mallers...Those last few lines of dialog indicate however a connection. And he "saved" them with his sacrifice. In actuality he just bought them enough time to get away...but he was an interesting character. It always stuck me as to why he was so silent in the Arena, and only perked up when Angel and Riley came to save them...and why you never heard about Kalani's POV in the Arena after the fact.

3. Burt and Angel. I will say that I'm 89.99% sure that they are both still alive. And given the laws of kinetic energy, I would say that the chances of Burt either falling until he could grasp a window ledge or a pile of rubble that was there to "cushion" his fall are pretty high. Angel is most likely still alive also, given that he still has loose ends to tie up. I will also say that some of his words and actions in during the attack struck me as odd...I guess mostly his hesitation and frantic, panicked actions is what did it for me. I'm not saying that I think he's the Killer or the Rat, but we already know that Scratch knows something about him that he doesn't want anyone to know about. Did anyone else think that it was odd how he responed to her on the radio when she called him "blond boy"? He like freaked out "My name is Angel, not blond boy!" I thought it was strange since he didn't want her to know what his name was to begin with and seemed to want to avoid her calling him by his name. (Just a personal observation, perhaps...)

4. Pegs, Michael, Datu, Kelly, Tanya, Riley, Hope, Lady...was Steven there too? Can't remember...but they are the only survivors of the Tower (confirmed). The missing: Saul, Victor, Angel, Burt. I'm saying this to keep it clear in my head. Everyone else is dead...? Everything happened very fast. Kalani blew himself up, and the rest of the Tower-ites got taken out by the Mallers/Zombies...I find it funny that they make sure to tell us that Lady made it. WTF happened to Mr. Whiskers? lol...I want to read their journals...that would be hilarious...(I smell some LOL'ing fan fiction about Lady and Mr. Whiskers now...)

5. I have to say that I sniffed BS during that "hostage exchange." But I'm sure everyone else did too. As soon as we learned that they were already there an hour early, and Scratch wasn't there...I just shook my head. "Oh God, what is Scratch up to now?" And in that brief part where Lizzie, Tar, and Scratch are talking, we finally get the confirmation that Durai isn't the one authorizing this little venture of hers...duh...but interesting since it's one of the few times we see Scratch lose control.

hmmm...Some of this may be redundant, but these were things that stuck out to me...

DYING FOR THE NEXT SEASON!!!!

[ShadowXOR]

I find it kind of cheap they only saved all of the major characters, surely a minor character could have made it. That seemed really weird. And the fact that no one even tried to get Lewis out of prison was really weak. Sure some majors may be lost, but ALL the minors are gone, just wiped out. It's going to be a long wait for the next season.

[Eviebae]

So, if Kahlani was the rat, and he was found in the Arena where he wasn't being eaten, does that strengthen the argument that there is some sort of relationship between Ink and the Mallers? Or was hecaught by accident when the other tower fell--like it was his job to infiltrate on behalf of the Mallers but got caught by the Zombies?

[janedaniels]

As much as it pains me to say/type this. Kalani was the rat. Angel never had the time to be the rat. Angel and Burt are most likely still alive as scratch says something to the effect of "I've found what I was looking for". Burt is always referred to as "old man" by Scratch, so he's alive and in bad shape (also they have sherly if they have him). Saul and Victor went running off after the Hummer got flipped (goodbye hummer, you lasted two seasons). Also, Angel wasn't IN the tower when it fell, he was ON TOP of it. Also, I believe Mr. Wiskers is still alive (he's a fighter).

im gonna go with you on this one... mainly because im totally overwhelmed with the finale. im still a bit devastated about kalani. i had a bad taste for him until he and angel had their "harold and maude-esque" unlikely friendship (minus the really creepy marriage proposal with a 60 year age difference, the pill overdose, and the banjo). i always had an inkling he was the "rat" and whether it be the case or not, he had his fair share of heroic moments... as well as toleration of fat jokes.

and as for angel? i simply love him.

[Archer]

Wow, just listened to this. I'm shocked. So few survived.

[mem]

where in the **** is Mr Whiskers ???

http://th07.deviantart.com/fs31/150/f/2008/201/b/7/Parachute_cat_by_hallgat.jpg

[ComradeNarf]

where in the **** is Mr Whiskers ???

I'd like to point out that Durai left right around the same time as Mr. Whiskers. I'm betting they've formed an alliance.

[mem]

I'd like to point out that Durai left right around the same time as Mr. Whiskers. I'm betting they've formed an alliance.

interesting point there Sir

[mem]

also who else misses Skittles? Where are you skittly ??

[reaper239]

where in the **** is Mr Whiskers ???

http://th07.deviantart.com/fs31/150/f/2008/201/b/7/Parachute_cat_by_hallgat.jpg

i believe hitler has some theories on that

[HoosUDaddy]

Maybe someone can straighten me out here, but my wife (whom I turned on to WA recently and she is now addicted) pointed out that when Angel and Kalani had their mission together, Kalani is pestering Angel about hotwiring cars. Could it be that Kalani heard this from Scratch? I couldn't remember if it was "public knowledge" about Angel's "gift." Also, if both of them were the rats, Kalani could have cut the wire, then rushed off to meet Datu. That would have given Angel the time to rush out of the guard room and then head back to shoot Pippin. He could then run up to Burt's room and met up with Michael. The timing seems like it could work and would give both Burt and Angel apparent abilis. Thoughts? Discuss.

Also, my wife also just reminded me that Hope made the comment that the distance was "so far" to the other building before she took the zip line. So, was she lying about being blind or suddenly healed? "Halleluiah!"

[nikvoodoo]

Maybe someone can straighten me out here, but my wife (whom I turned on to WA recently and she is now addicted) pointed out that when Angel and Kalani had their mission together, Kalani is pestering Angel about hotwiring cars. Could it be that Kalani heard this from Scratch? I couldn't remember if it was "public knowledge" about Angel's "gift." Also, if both of them were the rats, Kalani could have cut the wire, then rushed off to meet Datu. That would have given Angel the time to rush out of the guard room and then head back to shoot Pippin. He could then run up to Burt's room and met up with Michael. The timing seems like it could work and would give both Burt and Angel apparent abilis. Thoughts? Discuss.

Also, my wife also just reminded me that Hope made the comment that the distance was "so far" to the other building before she took the zip line. So, was she lying about being blind or suddenly healed? "Halleluiah!"

Thou hath married a very observant woman.

Correct, we never discovered who told Kalani Angel could hotwire cars. Kalani does seem like he was a pretty smart dude, if he learned that information from Scratch I don't think he would be so insistent about hotwiring. He would have realized his mistake immediately and the conversation would never come up again. at least...in my opinion.

And while this is very intriguing (re: Hope), I think it's somewhat logical that you would be hesitant to zip line from building to building and you would have a general idea of how far away this building is. She hasn't been blind her whole life so she could just be thinking about how far away other buildings were to the Other Tower.

That being said, that is a great little piece of information, especially since it's hidden by an awkward Angel joke (Just close your......hold your breath)

[Adogg]

I don't think Angel or Burt is dead but who was the other Tower occupant that Scratch had? I think Hannah was the redhead they shot at the golf course but that's just my guess

Or someone is pregnant ....


...Also, my wife also just reminded me that Hope made the comment that the distance was "so far" to the other building before she took the zip line. So, was she lying about being blind or suddenly healed? "Halleluiah!"

I thinks she is underestimating blind people. There is a blind guy on Expedition Impossible tv show who, when doing a zip line, said that he could hear how big the cavern was. Like a bat uses echo blind people can hear the open space. Also, she would be aware of the distance from earlier conversations, experiences. She may have even walked outside to the other building to help setup.

I could be wrong but I just don't read that much into the comment.

Guys .... Kalani is dead. The fire which burnt the zipline was from the wreckage he was in ... dead.

The blonde guy picked up by scratch was clearly Angel. The question at hand really should be is Burt dead or almost dead. I don't see how he could have survived and really think it would be a great way to end his story (which was a great one).

[nikvoodoo]

The blonde guy picked up by scratch was clearly Angel. The question at hand really should be is Burt dead or almost dead. I don't see how he could have survived and really think it would be a great way to end his story (which was a great one).

There was no mention of hair color in the epilogue of the chapter. So there's no way to clearly identify who was found except Burt....or Leopold. They are both old men....

[TKid]

Kalani says sorry for the flat tire because when they went to the army base he burst the tires, that was when they were getting the food packs

my bet is Angel is alive and was found at the end by Scratch, Burt is alive, only just, i think Saul will be alive and get to the base because he knows where it is and Kalani is dead. The explosion made by the fuel tanker and the fuel in the chopper he was in would have destroyed him.

[wocket]

BTW I'm pretty sure she's preggers. as soon as she started randomly throwing up on people it reminded me of my own early pregnancy nausea.

[PirateBeew]

Hey guys this is my first post so hello to all.

I'm going to vote for:
Kalani is dead.............I think he could possibly be the mole (maybe he wrote it in his diary and thats why he wanted Angel to grab it so badly)


Angel is alive............... I also think he could be the mole due to scratch saying at the end of the credits when she finds someone in the rubble

("i've found what i was looking for")

Plus earlier in the episode she talks about how she had spoken with Angel when he dropped off her brother for pegs? (if i'm correct on the pegs bit...)

Burt barely alive..... I would hope Kc will give him a better send off so here's hoping he is alive

Saul ..... deffo still alive i think the story will fracture into there different parts i.e. saul saves lizzy then they try find a way to where micheal and crew are..

Micheal and the rest as we know are safe for now............................................... .............



Also if you click on their names it takes you to the wiki page and it says on there if they are deceased or still alive

:cool:

[nikvoodoo]

Just remember the wiki is user controlled and not necessarily up to date. The wiki is getting an information overhaul during the break

[Pikepaw]

Kalani is dead, I ran it over in my brain and the number of different factors in that crash followed immediately by an explosion gives Divine Intervention as his only chance of survival. Saul and Victor are smart and are the best "doers" in the tower, as Marcus would put it, "ground, pounder infantry". They can move stealthily in the field. Victor was a successful Recon agent for a while there and managed to ambush Michael, so I know his stealth is high. Saul is a specialist and Michael says he's a great solider, but the stealth knife kill in season 3. They are the two I would give the best chances for surviving on the ground right now.

I am betting Burt is still alive, but mangled. He might be crippled for the rest of his life in the series or maybe it is just broken bones that can heal.

I just had a revelation how Angel could have survived the collapsing of the Tower. Michael said he couldn't see Angel, presumably because of the smoke. However maybe Angel wasn't there to see and found somewhere secure to be or was going down. I'm not very knowledgeable in how a building collapse or how one would survive, but I figure Angel had to be a specific spot and very lucky to even still be breathing. I do think that Angel was the one that Bricks discovered and Scratch said to put with the "old man" (Whom I am positive is Burt, unless they capture Leopold)

[PirateBeew]

"Just remember the wiki is user controlled and not necessarily up to date. The wiki is getting an information overhaul during the break"



Thanks for telling me that ^_^ i wont take what it says as fact anymore lol

[Zoibie]

Or someone is pregnant ....



I thinks she is underestimating blind people. There is a blind guy on Expedition Impossible tv show who, when doing a zip line, said that he could hear how big the cavern was. Like a bat uses echo blind people can hear the open space. Also, she would be aware of the distance from earlier conversations, experiences. She may have even walked outside to the other building to help setup.

I could be wrong but I just don't read that much into the comment.

Guys .... Kalani is dead. The fire which burnt the zipline was from the wreckage he was in ... dead.

The blonde guy picked up by scratch was clearly Angel. The question at hand really should be is Burt dead or almost dead. I don't see how he could have survived and really think it would be a great way to end his story (which was a great one).

I think Burt could be alive. They seemed to play up that he almost got to the other side, so maybe he managed to drop into a window on one of the lower floors.

Kalani is definitely dead though, no doubt about it.

Also, I may be remembering wrongly but didn't one of Mallers saying something about 'the old man' a short time before the helicopters came? I'll listen back and see if I can find it.

[GodofInsanity]

OK just got done introducing my whole family to the 1st season and 2nd season on a road trip from Iowa going back to Cali. So here is my 2 pennies

Kalani is dead. The crash of a Bell Helicopter 15 stories onto and explosive laden fuel tanker makes for a very very long shot for survival. I can see the evidence of him being the rat, but I am not biting. Personally I do not see him having the balls to hook up with the mallers in the begininng and the chance of him being hooked up before the arena with them and ending up with The Tower seem pretty chancey. Plus he didn't seem to be there very long before there party and the Mallers attack at the end of the 1st season after he was rescued. I know time doesn't flow evenly in the story but that was how I percieved it.

Saul and Victor are alive and I think they have rescued Lizzie. Scratch didn't mention her at the end of the last chapter, only the old man. This is the only evidence I have for this thought.

I think Skittles will pop up here again, maybe with a few minor survivors or even Saul, Victor and Lizzie.

Angel is alive. I think he is the peson they found at the end of the final chapter. And I know some peeps feel he is the rat, but again I am not biting. I think there is some kinda of history between him and Scratch and Latch. And that is why I think Scratch is satified saying "I have found what I was looking for."

As to the rat, I think she is on the Jolly Green Giant. My money is between Kelly and Riley. I see guilt in both of them that could be because of what has happened due to there actions. I was leaning hard towards Kelly, but my family added perspective towards Riley that moves the bar back to the middle.

I do not know if the survivors on the Jolly Green are going to go all the way to Ft. Irwin. I could see them landing at LAX and regrouping a bit. Maybe even giving them a chance to come across some of our others survivors like Saul, Victor, and Lizzie.

And Burt, well we know he is alive. And he may be hurt but I don't think near as jacked up as we can assume from a long fall. There have been some good possibilities put forward as to how he survived and I think this could also work towards him not being too damaged.

KC, damn good story. You got my mom (64 years old) hooked. Cannot wait til next season

[Jillibean]

Not sure if it makes sense that Kalani was the traitor, but there is no way Kalani survived that crash. I think Saul, Lizzie, Angel, Bert, and Victor are all alive. The Mallers still have Lizzie and will have Angel and Bert as "slaves." Saul and Victor will probably be the ones who rescue them and then they somehow make it to the base where the others are.

[alexSFsurvivor]

I'm fine with anyone dying except for Saul, and Bert, they can't die, I love them too much.

If Bert dies, Ernie will get pissed!

[alexSFsurvivor]

Yeah I think that the car was blown up by the RPG or it was gunned down
Not to mention there where a lot of biters! I wonder why they didn't decide on dropping some sweat jars from the sky?

[Th3_T3ch]

Everybody keeps saying that there was no way for Kalani to survive the crash... DUH!! Kalani is dead, end of theorizing on a
future for him. What needs to be done is knowing if anybody wanted to try and find the hummer. I mean come on, that has to
have some sentimental value! It's saved all their bums several times over. Angel is most likely alive, in really really bad shape,
but alive. Surviving a building crashing under you isn't easy, but survivable. If he was inside the building, well he would be dead. Kalani is most likely the rat, he had time, motive, and a secret journal that Tanya didn't read.

[Poddy mckeown]

as long as mr.whiskers survives im happy:)

[Mora]

I'm kind of shocked at all the people who think that Angel is the rat...clearly he has some connection with scratch, but it's not something he's happy about. Also he's in the room with Pippin CONSTANTLY, and Pippin never reacts to him....it's after he leaves and someone else comes in that he reacts and gets nervous. It also could not be Kelly, as she was in the room for quite some time. It's POSSIBLE that it's Riley, but I see no reason for her to betray anyone.

Kalani is the most logical conclusion, as he seems to have had motive (protecting this "Hannah" girl, which we mostly seem to think was the girl that was assassinated at the golf course) and the access (EDIT: My only problem with this is that Michael or Angel specifically say that Kalani was with Datu the entire time, and Datu would have no reason to lie for or protect Kalani...there must be something that's missing). They say Kalani was also in the other tower...maybe he was also planted there by the mallers. After that place got overrun, he was just chillin in the Arena until he was rescued. At that point, he contacts the mallers again to say he wants to come back to see Hannah, and they ask where he is...he tells the "another tower" and things spiral out of control from there. I like the theory that his journal is what's in bills desk, along with a long range walkie of some variety that the tower occupants do not know about.

As far as who survives, it's gotta be Angel somehow, along with Burt. Kalani living through a fireball explosion makes very little sense, but I will admit, after a second listen after reading all of the comments on the forums, it DOES sound like Scratch is walking on metal....but it doesn't have to be the chopper, it could be the exploded tankers for all we know. Saul and Victor definitely live, and will probably end up saving Lizzy, Burt and Angel.

[cleeprevo]

I think that Burt landed on a different story below the one they were suppose to land on. And I also kinda think that maybe some of the survivors in the tower were able to escape before it collapsed, but I don't know. Angel is hard to think of a way that he could have survived. Don't really think he did.

[cleeprevo]

Angel has to be alive, otherwise it would be really pointless for Angel to grab what was in Bill's desk. I don't think they would pointlessly put that in...

[zombeh-kitteh]

Angel has to be alive, otherwise it would be really pointless for Angel to grab what was in Bill's desk. I don't think they would pointlessly put that in...

While I will point out that I do think that Angel is still alive, I think it also necessary to point out that Angel grabbed Kalani's journal and things that were in the desk and put them (along with Lady) in Hope's backpack before she went over to the other building on the zipline...

Given the circumstances, I think that this will be largely overlooked until we know exactly what's up with the survivors on the helicopter and the status of Burt and Angel; I think that it will be awhile before we get to "read" the information, unfortunately.

[JusticePain]

Only person I want to live is Burt. It would nice if Angle would live too but I want Burt to live. I think he held on to the rope, slammed in to the side of the building and clumbed into a window and he is now alive.

[Amisiel]

*crosses fingers for Burt* I so want him to survive, I think season three opener is going to be a real tear jerker.

[7oddisdead]

I try to hold onto hope for burt living...hearing his voice in the next season will make a happy hermit of me

[Silent Witness]

What was Scratch talking about when she said "i found what i was looking for" after the tower came down?

[7oddisdead]

thats an excellent question....there may be a thread about that..oh here it is :)

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?2194-What-Scratch-was-looking-for

[janjas]

i thing algel have lost some body parts lool because he was shoot whit a bazuca

[Amisiel]

LOL so he will no longer be one and a half arms he will be one armed? is that what your thinking?

[yarri]

I have faith that victor and saul and Lizzie are running free.. I'm sure burt is ok. Angel, I'm very worried about very very worried about. I'm hoping he obtained a little bit of Saul's stupid dumb luck and survives even if it means taking a long time to heal. It would be sad for my three favorite boys to not be complete.

[Creem_Filling]

Angel will survive. I feel like there is so much more development that could happen with him. I'm not saying he'll make it for much longer, because if he was captured by the Mallers, A LOT could happen. His death, I feel, would be a self-sacrifice sort of thing. It just seems very Angel to jump in front of a zombie for someone.

[M+J=zombies dead>=3]

Angel is definitely going to have some serious injuries and I hope Burt is ok!

[yarri]

Angel will survive. I feel like there is so much more development that could happen with him. I'm not saying he'll make it for much longer, because if he was captured by the Mallers, A LOT could happen. His death, I feel, would be a self-sacrifice sort of thing. It just seems very Angel to jump in front of a zombie for someone.

I have to agree. If he goes out I hope its thug like!

[Blood & Ice Cream]

angel - just before the collapse, michael (in the helicopter) noted that there was no sign on angel on the flat roof

therefore my thoughts were that he managed to slide down the remaining rope part way down the building before the collapse, so the fall was much smaller than being on the top of a collapsing 14 storey building

[stout403]

ah, i just had the same thought as you blood and ice cream!
Burt falls. Michael says he pulls back up about 10' until he finds the charred end of the line.
Angel, awaiting Burt to finish zip-lining across sees the line in front of him go limp, he could possibly already have a harness on, clips into the line, sees the heli pull away from the RPG blast, and starts descending the side of the building.

But, the line breaking could also be used for Burt, since he was on it, but a bit more improbable since he should technically be past the point that breaks with his inertia. And Breaking through a window? the thought crossed my mind until thinking about the windows having to have to stand up to winds and such


Another guess is Scratch has found Saul, who is still around the building trying to help Lizzie escape. Saul is hit from debris from the falling tower and immobilized. And this could mean she found Victor as well, but they have no idea who he is so he just gets tossed into the "slave" catagory.
Saul also has his IV catheter in his arm, so the medication he has is going to be depleted at some point while out trying to find Lizzie.

[Traden]

so far your the only person ive seen mention Steven, is it possible he is the rat? remember when he freaked out saying he was not comfterble watching the new prisoner on guard duty. he made quite the scene and for no apparent reason. as far as i remember he was not seen by Pippin either. he also got Lizzy kicked out of the tower too which is kind of a dick move on his part.

He fits the profile for a rat if u ask me but there isnt much more info about him. it just came to me when u mentioned him.

[Mora]

I'm kind of shocked at all the people who think that Angel is the rat...clearly he has some connection with scratch, but it's not something he's happy about. Also he's in the room with Pippin CONSTANTLY, and Pippin never reacts to him....it's after he leaves and someone else comes in that he reacts and gets nervous. It also could not be Kelly, as she was in the room for quite some time. It's POSSIBLE that it's Riley, but I see no reason for her to betray anyone.

Kalani is the most logical conclusion, as he seems to have had motive (protecting this "Hannah" girl, which we mostly seem to think was the girl that was assassinated at the golf course) and the access (EDIT: My only problem with this is that Michael or Angel specifically say that Kalani was with Datu the entire time, and Datu would have no reason to lie for or protect Kalani...there must be something that's missing). They say Kalani was also in the other tower...maybe he was also planted there by the mallers. After that place got overrun, he was just chillin in the Arena until he was rescued. At that point, he contacts the mallers again to say he wants to come back to see Hannah, and they ask where he is...he tells the "another tower" and things spiral out of control from there. I like the theory that his journal is what's in bills desk, along with a long range walkie of some variety that the tower occupants do not know about.

As far as who survives, it's gotta be Angel somehow, along with Burt. Kalani living through a fireball explosion makes very little sense, but I will admit, after a second listen after reading all of the comments on the forums, it DOES sound like Scratch is walking on metal....but it doesn't have to be the chopper, it could be the exploded tankers for all we know. Saul and Victor definitely live, and will probably end up saving Lizzy, Burt and Angel.

For the record, I totally called this (so far, at least...still no word on burt and angel.)

[Crabb90]

I recently caught up on the recent episodes and I am back in love with this podcast. I started watching for the zombies and I kept watching for the character development. However, I have some issues with the 1-hour special of season 2. Well, just one issue actually, and that's the characters supposedly died at the end: Kalani, Burt, and Angel.

First, I want to say that I like how the group is now split into groups: one with the helicopter who made it out of LA and the other scattered around LA. I thought, for sure, that Kalani was dead when he rammed his chopper in to the oil tanker headed for the Tower, but now I'm thinking he may have survived since Scratch would have recognized him a little more than Angel in the rubble of the Tower. However, if you recall Scratch's first meeting with Angel, she says that he ''looks pretty damn familiar'' and that she ''never forgets a face''. So, I think it's quite possible that she and Angel have a slight history together, perhaps indirectly. Also, Micheal didn't see Angel on the roof just before it collapsed, so he have survived the Tower's fall. Plus, I doubt Kalani's fat ass could pull off any fancy maneuvers to avoid the inferno of the exploding tanker and being incinerated. I think Angel is still alive and his whereabouts could go one of two ways. 1; he is evaded the Mallers and his currently surviving on his own, possibly trailing Saul and Victor. 2; (which I think is a little more likely) he is currently in the custody of the Mallers along with Lizzie.

I think the character of Burt is little more complex. Since Lizzie got kicked out of the Tower because of that whole fiasco with Steven, I somewhat expected to be the next character to die. However, I also expected his death to be a little more climactic than simply falling off the chopper. I also think that the little snippet of audio at the end of the 1-hour episode, where Scratch says, ''Put him with the old man.'', is good evidence telling us that Burt still alive. I think he is also now in the custody of the Mallers and him, Angel, and Lizzie are going to meet up and formulate a plan to escape their captors but not after they learn a little more about the Mallers and what makes them tick. Maybe they'll learn about this 'Hannah' character as well.

As for this 'CJ' character, she seems like a selfish bitch to me. Honestly, I hope she dies soon. Saul and Victor could use her safe house. But, who knows, she's was helpful recently with the back story of Kalani.

[ZomNom]

Kalani is dead. His story was finished. We'll probably hear more about him though, especially when Hannah is introduced as a main character.

Burt is alive. Unless he whipped out his journal and wrote while he was ziplining to his death.

I don't THINK Angel is dead, but there's no evidence to suggest that he survived. My guess is that he sealed himself in the elevator or was in a stairwell during the collapse?

Don't get me wrong, both could be dead, but KC screwed up with Burt's voice-over journal entry, if this is the case. And he's screwed over a fan favorite character in Angel without giving him a proper send-off ... like Kalani got.

Just my opinions.

[zombiesurvivor]

The question I still have on my mind is what happened to Angel, Burt, or the others.
Do any of you guys know what happened to them

[ClearSights]

Here is what I think happened for each one....

Angel - The last we know of Angel was that he was trapped on the tower as it fell (As far as we know) I believe that in the near future we will have a flashback to Angels view point. It will start with the rope snapping and Burt fallings then Angel will panic and start his journey to get off the tower, I believe that he will get a way down the tower but not all the way and will fall with it but only enough to hurt him. When the dust settles he will be captured by the maulers and taken to wherever they are. And the story will continue from there...

Burt - In a near episode, there will be a Burt flashback to where Burt falls down from the rope and is extremely hurt but is alive and then needs to hurry to cover before the tower collapses on top of him. He does but it trapped by the rubble. When it all settles, he is captured by the maulers’ as-well.

Once these two are captured by the maulers, their stories will join and we will learn about what is happening to them and Lizzy. The story will be told from their point of view and how they are doing in the maulers’ captivity and also what the maulers have planned.

[nikvoodoo]

I'm going to merge this with another thread that covers pretty much the exact same topic.

[ClearSights]

Good call, didn't see this one

[nikvoodoo]

Good call, didn't see this one

It was in episode discussions. Suppose it's more of a theory thread anyway. Probably should have been here from the beginning.

[Osiris]

BRB, starting Where's Burt thread.

[zombiesurvivor]

Here is what I think happened for each one....

Angel - The last we know of Angel was that he was trapped on the tower as it fell (As far as we know) I believe that in the near future we will have a flashback to Angels view point. It will start with the rope snapping and Burt fallings then Angel will panic and start his journey to get off the tower, I believe that he will get a way down the tower but not all the way and will fall with it but only enough to hurt him. When the dust settles he will be captured by the maulers and taken to wherever they are. And the story will continue from there...

Burt - In a near episode, there will be a Burt flashback to where Burt falls down from the rope and is extremely hurt but is alive and then needs to hurry to cover before the tower collapses on top of him. He does but it trapped by the rubble. When it all settles, he is captured by the maulers’ as-well.

Once these two are captured by the maulers, their stories will join and we will learn about what is happening to them and Lizzy. The story will be told from their point of view and how they are doing in the maulers’ captivity and also what the maulers have planned.



Thank you that has been on my mind forever

[zedhead]

i am keeping my fingers crossed that angel survived, he is my favorite ^.^

[zombiesurvivor]

Where are the mailers and what will they do with Angel, Lizzy, and Burt
?????

And with Tanya being bit what will they have to do to her ?????????

[Gadge80]

Tell me to shut up if someone has already answered this, but if we hear narration then can we presume that person is still alive?

Obviously Kalani is dead and his voice comes from the diary being read by someone else, but others (Burt for example) were still giving their accounts of what happened in the tower as the tower was collapsing.
Does this then mean that at some point after the tower collapses, Burt wrote those accounts into his journal and they somehow get collected to piece together the whole story? If this is so, then Burt is not only still alive, but destiny will see him alive long enough to write his accounts of what happened at the tower and that journal find its way back to Saul and Michael (Saul and Michael too must therefore survive long enough for their journals to be re-united).

If this is true, then it kind of gives them an immunity to what's happening around them as you know they will survive regardless (a little bit like when you see the closing scene of a film at the beginning and then it says "Six weeks earlier" and you watch the events leading up to that scene unfold.)

....or am I looking to deep into the narration, and it is purely supposed to move the story along?

[reaper239]

angel is also dead, but narrated certain sections in the past. the narration (as i understand it) comes from the journals michael had everyone start writing in the begining. narration doesn't mean a character's alive, it simply means that that was recorded before they alledgedly died and was recovered at a later date.

[nikvoodoo]

The other point to keep in mind: Tanya scanned all the journals. So we have accounts all the way up to the end of Season 2. That's most likely how we were able to hear about the Reserve Base, Behemoths and Skittles was from Angel's journal (as Kalani was supposedly not keeping one but did write his confession into one).

There is also the concept of Found Footage (you know...that thing that was the basis of Blair Witch and all the Paranormal Activity movies). For all we know everyone is dead and Ink is reading their journals. If he's smart enough to be doing what he's doing, he could very well be literate.

....I just slightly blew my own mind....I'mma go pick up my gray matter off the floor and be back with you shortly.

[7oddisdead]

The other point to keep in mind: Tanya scanned all the journals. So we have accounts all the way up to the end of Season 2. That's most likely how we were able to hear about the Reserve Base, Behemoths and Skittles was from Angel's journal (as Kalani was supposedly not keeping one but did write his confession into one).

There is also the concept of Found Footage (you know...that thing that was the basis of Blair Witch and all the Paranormal Activity movies). For all we know everyone is dead and Ink is reading their journals. If he's smart enough to be doing what he's doing, he could very well be literate.

....I just slightly blew my own mind....I'mma go pick up my gray matter off the floor and be back with you shortly.

Dude..

That's effin crazy talk.....I'm so proud of you right now!!

[reaper239]

Dude..

That's effin crazy talk.....I'm so proud of you right now!!

well, it is plausible

[7oddisdead]

well, it is plausible

Which part?...the ink bit....or being proud of nik?

[nikvoodoo]

Dude..

That's effin crazy talk.....I'm so proud of you right now!!

I'm glad I can make you proud :)

I do kinda feel like that shoulda been in the crackpot thread.

[reaper239]

Which part?...the ink bit....or being proud of nik?

both, i never thought he'd say something that sound so out there, yet so down to earth. so proud.

[7oddisdead]

Dude...stop...this is making my day...I cant have all this happiness in my life:D

Derail/over...

[Gadge80]

Tell me to shut up if someone has already answered this, but if we hear narration then can we presume that person is still alive?

Obviously Kalani is dead and his voice comes from the diary being read by someone else, but others (Burt for example) were still giving their accounts of what happened in the tower as the tower was collapsing.
Does this then mean that at some point after the tower collapses, Burt wrote those accounts into his journal and they somehow get collected to piece together the whole story? If this is so, then Burt is not only still alive, but destiny will see him alive long enough to write his accounts of what happened at the tower and that journal find its way back to Saul and Michael (Saul and Michael too must therefore survive long enough for their journals to be re-united).

Back to this point again, i had a thought.. i wonder who's journal the "killing Angel" meeting was read from...
The scene was far to detailed for Burt to have heard from a nearby locked room. Also to much for such details to be brought up in conversation.... so... it's gotta be Scratch right, but why would she write a journal?

And even if she did, why so much detail about how she killed him, who would put that stuff in a journal.

Any thoughts?

[nikvoodoo]

The "journal entry" is the video recording Tardust made. Tar turned the camera on, and the recording covered the interrogation.

[Gadge80]

The "journal entry" is the video recording Tardust made. Tar turned the camera on, and the recording covered the interrogation.#

Fecksake... how did I miss that!
I really need to re-listen to the whole freakin show again... there's so much I haven't picked up on!