The Source/Cause of the Infection!

[EBax]

Hello everyone on the forum. Random newbie here. In honor of the season two finale coming up this weekend, I've been re-listening to the series at work/working out/whenever. That's besides the point, though.

In chapter 12-4 (The War- Part 4) I noticed something interesting. When Tommy was initially offered to get rinsed off, he was rather polite about it, but just before the infection set in, he had a VERY strong aversion to water. That's when it hit me! I had a theory about the spread of the zombie infection.

MUTANT RABIES

Don't laugh it off quite yet. Just think about it for a moment! What are some characteristics of rabies?

1. Hydrophobia is an early sign of a rabies infection.
-Considering Tommy resisted getting washed quite violently before he turned, plausible.

2. Spreads through bodily fluid contact, like saliva-to-blood and blood-to-blood.
-Fits the bill on how the zombie disease spreads.

3. Rabies is characterized by cerebral dysfunction, abnormal behavior, hallucinations, and general agitation.
-Zombie-like loss of coordination, reversion to primal behaviors, attacking humans and animals alike, etc... could all be potentially pulled from quasi-rabid behavior.

Now, of course, this doesn't explain things like the big ones and the little ones or the super-high rate of infection. At the same time, cases of prolonged turning could be examples of people who are resistant to the strain of the zombie virus. It makes sense! (to me, at least)

Thoughts?

[Cabbage Patch]

I've heard speculation that the legends of vampires may have been inspired by the behavior of people infected by rabies. I think you make a compelling case that whatever caused the zombie outbreak in WA had something to do with rabies.

Come to think of it, in World War Z the early outbreaks of zombies were attributed to "African Rabies".

[7oddisdead]

I approve of this logic....:)...keep going!

[Luna Guardian]

Also, in World War Z, Max Brooks writes that one of the early names for the zombie plague in that universe was the "African rabies". Coincidence? Perhaps. Or then Max Brooks is the Nostradamus of We're Alive...

Seriously though, this is great thinking! Keep it up, we'll have this figured out before KC spills the beans (if he ever does...)

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Luna, In WWZ the infection actually started in China did it not (I didn't really care for the book)?

Anyway, about Tommy... I have a teenage step-son who is water adverse as well. Its just what they do, little bastards just hate taking showers. Mugs think they'll go all Wicked Witch of the West.

[ClearSights]

You have just described the book "Tooth and Nail" by Craig DiLouie. It about how the Rabies virus mutated with another to created a zombie like infection that spreads like rabies.

I am assuming KC did his research on all things zombie and I don't think he would copy this books premise.

Heres the book description...

"As a new plague related to the rabies virus infects millions, America recalls its military forces from around the world to safeguard hospitals and other vital buildings. Many of the victims become rabid and violent but are easily controlled-that is, until so many are infected that they begin to run amok, spreading slaughter and disease. Lieutenant Todd Bowman got his unit through the horrors of combat in Iraq. Now he must lead his men across New York through a storm of violence to secure a research facility that may hold a cure. To succeed in this mission to help save what's left, the men of Charlie Company will face a terrifying battle of survival against the very people they have sworn to protect-people turned into a fearless, endless horde armed solely with tooth and nail."

[reaper239]

due to all the variation, behemoths, little ones, smart zombies, ink, i don't think it's rabies, or even super rabies per se. instead i think rabies may have been used as a base or another virus entirely but spliced with charecteristics of rabies. also keep in mind that while the virus in wwz was initially called african rabies, it was later determined to be something else (solanum i think) a virus completely unrelated to rabies. also those zombies were completely dead, slow, and unthinking, and there weren't different variations of zombies. of course if we look at left 4 dead we see a super rabies virus with multiple variations, but the baseline zombies aren't particularly strong. another source for the super rabies theory is the movie quarentine, similar to l4d minus the different types, or 28 bays later

[Grognaurd]

Sorry I have been away so much. Starting a different phase at work and been crazy. BUt, I almost have it calmed down to regular waves.

Here is some work that I did for another zombie site. Please note, I published this before National Geographic posted the idea and encorporated into their zombie show.

http://www.lostzombies.com/group/thecampionvirus/forum/topics/influenza-rabies-hybrid?xg_source=activity

[Cabbage Patch]

Going back to "Tooth and Nail", the implication of that story was that the hybrid of influenza and rabies was something man-made, with the influenza element weakening the immune system and creating the opening for the rabies element, while diguising it from view until it was too late. The influenza aspect doesn't seem to be a factor in We're Alive, but the idea of this being an "engineered" outbreak is certainly consistent with what we've seen so far.

[ClearSights]

Yeah I agree that the flu symptoms are not there in We're Alive

[Conf]

yeah we're alive seems to have a zombie/notazombie switch, I kinda miss the Romero slow burn turning process

[Grognaurd]

There is a subsection of biology called astrobilogy. Life on other planets, bacterial contamination and clean up in the space station etc. But, on the fringes there is a scientist that preaches that virus can be shed from coments and asteroids. They slowly settle in the atmosphere. Birds catch influenza first because they are in the area while we are on the ground. They start in China because the himolayas (spelling?) disrupt the wind currnets as the highest place on Earth. These statements are conjecture with no real proof. But, he also claims that the influenza hit on the same day in the Us and in India. But, there were no means of transportation fast enough to do that.

Space Rabies!

I think it is an interesting plot device for stories, but I do not believe that space influenza is a regular thing. I have also been unable to substantiate his claim that things started on the same day.

Without invoking a large conspiracy, the astrobiology theory of disease is a mechanism of dispersal of the contagion.

[Daniel Glenn]

A mutated or genetically altered strain of rabies sounds very interesting, but what I’ve been dwelling on is how it began. Mind you, I just started listening to this podcast just a month ago and I’m only up through Chapter 17; however, early on our survivors were watching a DVR of a newscast that had been recorded in The Tower. It appeared that the infections had their beginnings in many major cities across the United States, perhaps, even in every major city around the world, within hours or minutes of each other. Though this infection metastasizes rather quickly through the host and is easily transferred to another host’s body, it would be impossible for the disease to appear in every major city across America in an hour if this with a natural infection. Also, if this had been a natural infection, then we would have seen one city or area with the country with infections; then, following manmade transportation routes, primarily roads, as we’ve yet seen a zombie that can pilot a plane or boat, we would have seen the infections travel to other parts of the country. That this is not a natural occurring plague is also supported by the fact that the outbreak appears to have occurred on isolated areas of our planet, such as the islands of Hawaii, at the same time as on the mainland. If the plague had originated on the mainland, then it should have reached Chile long before it reached Hawaii, as the ocean would have created a natural barrier. The way in which the infection has spread would suggest an orchestrated event; biological terrorism. So, let us assume that I’m right, that a person or persons unknown have released this ‘zombie’ plague upon the earth. This raises several questions, of which are: 1) Who are they? 2) For what reason did they release the plague? and 3) What was the initial catalyst? Was this the action of some nation looking to obtain all of our planet’s limited natural resource and dominate the world? A zombie plague would ride the world of humans, yet leave their resources intact. A nuclear bomb gets rid of just some humans, but generally makes the hardest hit area uninhabitable for decades. Was this a holy war against ‘unbelievers’, with ‘The Profit’ heralding the coming destruction of mankind and reaping political and military power by the accurate prediction of man’s fall? Also, if we can assume that this plague is manmade we can assume that there may be an antidote and/or that the plague may have a shelf life. The longer that you allow any plague to go unchecked, the higher the chances are that the plague will mutate and make it harder to combat or eradicate. But if you can design the plague to expire within six months or a year, and are able to hold up somewhere underground for that time, you’ll come out of the hole you’ve dug for yourself, release a dove and be King of the Earth, with everyone you’ve saved with you in your hole groveling at your feet, ready and willing to be your faithful subjects. What was the initial catalyst? The easiest way to spread such a plague would be through the air, say within ten feet. Someplace where there are lots of people jammed together, like on a subway. I’m thinking of a unit that is basically an atomizer hooked up to a cell phone; something small enough to be hidden under a seat or in a ventilation system. You don’t need to contaminate a city’s entire water system, or drop a dirty bomb, or fly over each city in a helicopter and spray the populous. In this way, it takes just one person to become infected and the deed is done. I look forward to your comments.

[kek]

Taking into consideration all other zombie outbreaks and causes out there, this one I think is from human testing. They mention on the news broadcast that 'Ink' is being moved to a mental institution. They could be moving him from the hospital somewhere and along the way he gets out, possibly in the zone where Lizzy and Victor got sick. He spreads the disease from there, and the people transporting him could have been carrying whatever they injected him with and it became airborne, expediting the process. Considering that no one who was in that area later got sick, perhaps the 'virus' can only survive for a short time in the air, say a day or two. that would explain the spreading from that zone and perhaps the odd feeling in the air without getting infected. The mental place under the hospital not on the map could have been illegal testing of some sort of super virus that the creators may have thought could do good or bad. Maybe they were hoping for a sort super soldier, or something, that would be strong, fast, fearless and not react to pain (jumpers?) or giants to be super strong (behemoths?) etc, you get the idea, and the tattoos for the little ones a way of recognizing what works and what does not, and Ink or whoever is one of those doctors changed over and trying to continue the experiment (dr.'s make smarter zombies). Many movies and books have been based off of trying to get a 'better' human. Perhaps this outbreak is that kind of attempt gone horribly wrong?
This was kinda lengthy, but I think as I write, so yeah this is just my rambling brain trying to work things out lol.

[ZombieNick]

Khhhaaaaaaan!!! I mean, Kek!!!!!! DAMN YOU!!!!

You beat me to it. As for a specific infection that causes the Zombie-fication, I have no idea but, I am of the opinion that the virus or whatever it maybe, is the result of human experimentation wither it be intentional or not. The area not mapped in the Hospital was most likely a testing facility and probably not the only one.
Hospitals are typically run by a larger, parent corporation (Umbrella Corp.?), having said that there are probably hospitals nation wide, if not world wide, conducting the same experiments. Now as to the intentional release of the outbreak, I see several scenarios: it was completely intentional, as to what the desired outcome of the release, your guess is as good as mine. World domination, purging the world of the unpure or unworthy, general death and destruction, pure scientific knowledge. Another idea is that it was completely a work of fate, the stars aligned against us, an human error lead to chain of events which allowed the outbreak occur.

Or perhaps it was a coordinated prison break by the test subjects. Now at first it may sound outlandish but, hear me out. In the hospital the zombie that was encountered stopped a flying arrow, who's to say that the zombies do not have other ways to communicate and coordinate a jail break. This is the Zombie Revolution!!!! Rise up, my Undead brethren and strike down our Human oppressors!!!

LoL. Okay, sorry just having a bit of fun but, their demonstrated level of intelligence is scary, couple that which their strength and other extra-natural abilities, looks like us (the human race), is in a world of hurt. My question is who is leading them. Is it Ink? Another zombie? The Zombie King? Or maybe a human . A man. And he rests atop a throne of corpses. . . .

[Hollomandious]

I like the human testing under the hospital (and other places) scenario.

Aside from the Jail Break idea, could also have been released by some hippy who thought that it would be a good way to bring attention to what they found. Idiot.

[Daniel Glenn]

I dislike the whole 'human-testing-gone-wrong' storyline. It's been done before; over and over. Give me something new as a catalyst. Give me an evil protagonist that has caused this to happen. He'll make zombies look like innocent victims of his terrorist crimes; a devil worse than Hitler for Michael and what remains of the Armed Forces to fight.

[kek]

Like I said before, it seems to me to be human testing. Maybe Daniel Glenn is right, but instead of one evil protagonist, it could have been a group. Perhaps something like Umbrella Corp. that is trying to come up with a way to eradicate the human race, or the classic 'take-over-the-world' plot. It could be anything, and thanks to KC's amazing writing and story telling, we know it can be anything. There are so many ways to play this. Perhaps there is an evil protagonist, but his plans went awry and he became a zombie, maybe a zombie king or Ink. Or maybe a hippy organization did discover the human testing and tried to bomb it or stop it or something (explosions at beginning? lol) but instead ended up spreading the contagion. Or someone tried to break Ink out of jail or the madhouse or wherever he was and that caused the outbreak. So many possibilities!

As a writer (well, hopeful writer lol) I can appreciate the fact that KC is heightening the suspense by including all these little tidbits that will make us think one thing, but then the next week he will come up with something completely new and blow all out theories and predictions out of the water. That is one of the reasons this is an amazing podcast.

Well, that is enough of my rambling, I tend to write a lot when I am thinking and typing at the same time lol.

[Daniel Glenn]

No, it's great. I like what you've written. Guess we will have to see with what KC comes up with.

[Austin king]

I think its genetic mutation done to people because of hints in ch1

[ZombieNick]

As to what is the cause of the infection, I think the unmapped area in the hospital clearly points toward man's interference into God's realm. We have tread on to holy ground and are paying the consequences. My guess for who's to blame, my working theory (Well, that's until the next chapter comes along and changes everything.) is that the corporation that conducted the experiments and they are no longer in control and the Zombie King, reins supreme. (King Ink the First, anyone?)

[kek]

No, it's great. I like what you've written. Guess we will have to see with what KC comes up with.

That we will. I can't wait to find out what happens next. So many great possible theories thrown about, someone could take all these and write another zombie related story lol.

[Hollomandious]

As to what is the cause of the infection, I think the unmapped area in the hospital clearly points toward man's interference into God's realm. We have tread on to holy ground and are paying the consequences. My guess for who's to blame, my working theory (Well, that's until the next chapter comes along and changes everything.) is that the corporation that conducted the experiments and they are no longer in control and the Zombie King, reins supreme. (King Ink the First, anyone?)

Idea. How about something DOOM-ish like some scientist opened a portal to hell? shovel:) ouch. ok, i'll stop.

[spellchekk]

I don't know if this has been discussed since I'm new, but I'm confused on how the infection is spread. We know that getting bitten does it, and in the beginning being splattered or ingesting blood did it too. I was re-listening, however, and when Riley and Angel were in the arena they were in piles of the dead monsters for hours. Riley got juices in her eyes and mouth and I assume Angel did too. Can the infection not be spread by the dead bodies? Do they need to be living/fresh remains in order to spread it?

[nikvoodoo]

I don't know if this has been discussed since I'm new, but I'm confused on how the infection is spread. We know that getting bitten does it, and in the beginning being splattered or ingesting blood did it too. I was re-listening, however, and when Riley and Angel were in the arena they were in piles of the dead monsters for hours. Riley got juices in her eyes and mouth and I assume Angel did too. Can the infection not be spread by the dead bodies? Do they need to be living/fresh remains in order to spread it?

This question goes to the heart of one of the unanswered questions of the series: How do they decide between turning someone and using them as food? That pile that Angel and Riley hid in might be just be people that the zombies killed but never infected them. We've seen them dragging live ones around, but we've also seen them jump on Todd and Fernando for immediate eats. If they can control themselves to the point that they don't bite right away, that entire pile could have been full of people who got their necks snapped and tossed onto the pile.

Likely? Nah, not really. But possible.

[kek]

Did the zombies take live people during the beginning, I wonder? or did that come later, once Ink (or whoever is the smartest zombie in the group) organized everyone, newly turned and all, and 'told them' what to do?

[Zombiphobe]

I have often wondered if the tatoos might serve a transmission function. Just as some diseases can be spread through needles, the same might be true for zombies.

Bill Roberts (A.K.A. "Ink") might have been turned after getting one of his many tatoos before becoming Patient Zero for LA the LA area.

Also, the tatoo gun at the Mental Hospital might have been used for more than just labelling the Little Ones. Perhaps it is being used to infect others? With new strains?

[Cassie753]

I'm curious about transmission theories related to Ground Zero and Inglewood. While it's apparent that the virus (or whatever) is transmitted through blood and bodily fluids, and it's therefore possible/probable that it's being transmitted through the tattoo needle, I'm unsure about what part Ground Zero plays. We heard the theory that Ground Zero is where everything started, presumably where the virus first began spreading, at least in the Los Angeles metro area. If that's the case, and considering that something in the area causes violent illness and vomiting, there must be some sort of other method of transmission, perhaps airborne (although Pegs said something about how it didn't seem like it was in the air, and Pegs and Victor didn't acquire the virus even after they were exposed to the air of the area).

[panzerfaust]

I wonder if WA is based on real locations?

[nikvoodoo]

I wonder if WA is based on real locations?

Generally yes. Kc has said he likes to write about what he knows and where he can visit. There are obviously exceptions like the Colony....I doubt there's a booby trapped stronghold in SoCal full of sociopaths.....

...,at least I hope there isn't!

[panzerfaust]

aybe u could pinpoint and track a characters location and maybe figure out some stuff

[Eviebae]

Generally yes. Kc has said he likes to write about what he knows and where he can visit. There are obviously exceptions like the Colony....I doubt there's a booby trapped stronghold in SoCal full of sociopaths.....

...,at least I hope there isn't!

You mean other than Orange County?...badda bing, badda boom!

Seriously though, who says every zombie related plot point has to stem from a single source? There's the beginning and then there's the aftermath. For instance, There's something very wrong in ground zero that may be related to how the virus was dispersed. Then there's the possibility that someone is doing research on the infected and tracking generations or crossbred creations.

The main question I have about Ground Zero is why people get sick/can't breathe near there.

I'm starting to think Ink is a bit like a second in command--and I'm wondering where Skittles is.

[Gkeeper21]

Okay well a simple case of rabbies does not travel anywhere near as fast as what is described in Were Alive. So unless it is a extremely mutated case of rabbies like said early there is no way it could be that. Also I would like to point out that when victor and pegs were heading to the airport so pegs could practice flying the helicopter they got lost and drove right into ground zero, the start point of the outbreak, and they could not breath or anything, leading me to believe that what ever it is that causes the change to zombie started out as an bacteria of some sort that spreads by air in it's start stage, which explains how such a large group of people would be changed in such a short period of time in the beginning, and then it most likley kept mutating and advancing like other bacterias, but at a extremely fast rate, make it completely uncureable. I believe it was some experiment gone wrong and completlelly going out of control, breaking free into the world and mutating drastically once it got into the outside environment.

[Grognaurd]

The incubation time for rabies is much longer. The "We're Alive" turn occurs in minutes. No known Virus or anything else can work that fast in OUR world. But, there are zombies running around, so I suspend disbelief to play along.

If we switch back towards "The Real World" and play "let's make a zombie plague..."

No DNA or Bacteria we know can spread that fast. Period.

The only thing we have that can modify behavior that quickly is a DRUG. But, the problem with a drug is that it is a one-off. Drugs do not reproduce, so each generation of victim will have a lower does. In this case, it will reach a point where it is slower acting or has less of an overall affect.

What I do is combine the two. We need a drug for fast action and we need a virus or bacteria to propigate the drug. There are many drugs that are currently being made in bacteria and viruses. But, these vectors are killed off while the drug is purified prior to use in people. But, there have been "drugs" developed that are administered by direct infection with a modified virus. The hope is the drug will be delivered and the virus will die away or be inert. But, going back to the Math-dude from Jurasic Park, "Nature finds a way:"...

OK, another problem with viruses is that they are very small. That means they do no have a lot of "RAM" to hold new information and programs. However, some viruses contain "pseudo-genes". These things get into the human cell and change the expression level of traditional genes that we all have and use in day to day life. Although the possibility also exists that they may awaken "ancient" genes. Genes that may control agression or feeding behavior that human evolution has turned way down so we can come together as a society. Change the expression of some proteins, turn on some silent genes, drop in a gene to make a drug like LSD to really mess with perception and we are on our way to snarling ravenger with reduced cognitive abilities

I have done work on the other side of the phenomena. Modification of the flesh. BUt, Kc's "zombies" are more about cognitive function rather than physical; special zombies exempted.

[reaper239]

The incubation time for rabies is much longer. The "We're Alive" turn occurs in minutes. No known Virus or anything else can work that fast in OUR world. But, there are zombies running around, so I suspend disbelief to play along.

If we switch back towards "The Real World" and play "let's make a zombie plague..."

No DNA or Bacteria we know can spread that fast. Period.

The only thing we have that can modify behavior that quickly is a DRUG. But, the problem with a drug is that it is a one-off. Drugs do not reproduce, so each generation of victim will have a lower does. In this case, it will reach a point where it is slower acting or has less of an overall affect.

What I do is combine the two. We need a drug for fast action and we need a virus or bacteria to propigate the drug. There are many drugs that are currently being made in bacteria and viruses. But, these vectors are killed off while the drug is purified prior to use in people. But, there have been "drugs" developed that are administered by direct infection with a modified virus. The hope is the drug will be delivered and the virus will die away or be inert. But, going back to the Math-dude from Jurasic Park, "Nature finds a way:"...

OK, another problem with viruses is that they are very small. That means they do no have a lot of "RAM" to hold new information and programs. However, some viruses contain "pseudo-genes". These things get into the human cell and change the expression level of traditional genes that we all have and use in day to day life. Although the possibility also exists that they may awaken "ancient" genes. Genes that may control agression or feeding behavior that human evolution has turned way down so we can come together as a society. Change the expression of some proteins, turn on some silent genes, drop in a gene to make a drug like LSD to really mess with perception and we are on our way to snarling ravenger with reduced cognitive abilities

I have done work on the other side of the phenomena. Modification of the flesh. BUt, Kc's "zombies" are more about cognitive function rather than physical; special zombies exempted.

check out quarentine, (think i spelled that right) they covered the issue of super rabies by establishing that the scientist in the apartment shortened the incubation period. i was curious, so i looked into it: by splicing together traits from rabies, ebola, and proly a few other select viruses, you could create something with an incubation period of hours, a lethality of near 100%, and a very high rate of infection. granted, a few hours is not several minutes, but a multi-million dollar corporation, with a high tech lab and a lot of time could proly figure something out. plus, we can accelerate the incubation period a bit for a work of fiction.

i like where you're going with the drug/virus combination though, it's a great idea (great being a relative term).

[Grognaurd]

What most people do not know is that there is an airborn strain of rabies. It was identified in Spelunkers (cave explorers) and came from bat guanno (poop). Subsequent studies in the controlled conditions of the laboartory confirmed that it was airborn. Some work I did for other authors combined Influenza with rabies. Later, the idea was picked up by National Geographic.

I did not need the drug in that case, because for their mythos the incubation period was several days.

[Eviebae]

The speed of the infection is really puzzling; mostly fast but sometimes there are slow turners. Seems to be spread by blood exposure even on unbroken skin, but then why was the husband of the woman who hid in the closet at the beginning able to beat a zombie head to a pulp and then wash his hands and carry on.

The complexity of the virus is a different puzzle. I guess you could just call "genius". Someone who could figure out things that other people couldn't

I've heard one theory of the Black Plague is that it struck according to blood type (also that it could have been something other than Bubonic). As in B protects weakly and people with A are most likely to survive. Type O's die like flies (yet another reason I wouldn't have survived the middle ages)
.
I'm looking forward to the solution such as it will be because KC is determined to avoid the sins of Lost (and, hopefully Battlestar Galactica).

[radon]

Has anyone looked into the fact that this may be an irradiated virus that is causing the outbreak? In chapter 3, part 3, Bert goes on to explain the "smart ones" who used to be scientists and such, the so called "smart one" is wearing a clearance level 3 ID badge for a radon labs. This may explain why people feel weird when they are at ground zero. I know this has some holes as to how it was initially spread but i find that this may be a cause to the source of the outbreak.

[yarri]

Taking into consideration all other zombie outbreaks and causes out there, this one I think is from human testing. They mention on the news broadcast that 'Ink' is being moved to a mental institution. They could be moving him from the hospital somewhere and along the way he gets out, possibly in the zone where Lizzy and Victor got sick. He spreads the disease from there, and the people transporting him could have been carrying whatever they injected him with and it became airborne, expediting the process. Considering that no one who was in that area later got sick, perhaps the 'virus' can only survive for a short time in the air, say a day or two. that would explain the spreading from that zone and perhaps the odd feeling in the air without getting infected. The mental place under the hospital not on the map could have been illegal testing of some sort of super virus that the creators may have thought could do good or bad. Maybe they were hoping for a sort super soldier, or something, that would be strong, fast, fearless and not react to pain (jumpers?) or giants to be super strong (behemoths?) etc, you get the idea, and the tattoos for the little ones a way of recognizing what works and what does not, and Ink or whoever is one of those doctors changed over and trying to continue the experiment (dr.'s make smarter zombies). Many movies and books have been based off of trying to get a 'better' human. Perhaps this outbreak is that kind of attempt gone horribly wrong?
This was kinda lengthy, but I think as I write, so yeah this is just my rambling brain trying to work things out lol.

I'd like to add to this if I may. I agree 100% that this is a virus. And history is full of "illegal" human testing right down to Dr Jonas Salk who documented work of testing ways to infect people with the flu. He was using a "nasal spray" form of the flu virus and testing how lethal its effect was on mentally ill and handicapped women. You all do know we can deliver a flu vaccine via a nasal spray right? Guess where it came from?

Kek's idea is quite sound.

[yarri]

Like I said before, it seems to me to be human testing. Maybe Daniel Glenn is right, but instead of one evil protagonist, it could have been a group. Perhaps something like Umbrella Corp. that is trying to come up with a way to eradicate the human race, or the classic 'take-over-the-world' plot. It could be anything, and thanks to KC's amazing writing and story telling, we know it can be anything. There are so many ways to play this. Perhaps there is an evil protagonist, but his plans went awry and he became a zombie, maybe a zombie king or Ink. Or maybe a hippy organization did discover the human testing and tried to bomb it or stop it or something (explosions at beginning? lol) but instead ended up spreading the contagion. Or someone tried to break Ink out of jail or the madhouse or wherever he was and that caused the outbreak. So many possibilities!

As a writer (well, hopeful writer lol) I can appreciate the fact that KC is heightening the suspense by including all these little tidbits that will make us think one thing, but then the next week he will come up with something completely new and blow all out theories and predictions out of the water. That is one of the reasons this is an amazing podcast.

Well, that is enough of my rambling, I tend to write a lot when I am thinking and typing at the same time lol.

My theory is its some eco terrorists bent on ridding the world of mankind cause they know Ol' momma earth will be better off without us. It would explain why the virus has not as of yet crossed species into monkeys, dogs, cats etc..

[Eviebae]

I'd like to add to this if I may. I agree 100% that this is a virus. And history is full of "illegal" human testing right down to Dr Jonas Salk who documented work of testing ways to infect people with the flu. He was using a "nasal spray" form of the flu virus and testing how lethal its effect was on mentally ill and handicapped women. You all do know we can deliver a flu vaccine via a nasal spray right? Guess where it came from?

Kek's idea is quite sound.

I could have gone my whole life without knowing about the nasal spray thing...

Gene therapy uses viruses to rewrite the DNA of patients, right? Viruses hijack human cells and cause them to reproduce the virus instead of regular cells. I've read that humans have "junk DNA" that scientists say came from viruses in the past leaving their mark. It's just hard for me to think it could all have been done by one person. It had to be a group of some sort.

BTW, I think Ink was already infected when he was arrested.

[yarri]

I could have gone my whole life without knowing about the nasal spray thing...

Gene therapy uses viruses to rewrite the DNA of patients, right? Viruses hijack human cells and cause them to reproduce the virus instead of regular cells. I've read that humans have "junk DNA" that scientists say came from viruses in the past leaving their mark. It's just hard for me to think it could all have been done by one person. It had to be a group of some sort.

BTW, I think Ink was already infected when he was arrested.

Yes it does and the zombies were misnamed from the beginning as I can't remember what chapter it was in. These "zombies" of Kc's breathe, sleep, bleed and are warm and heal. Dead things don't do any of that. It is a logical conclusion to assume that your theory could have some weight. My current tinfoil hat theory is that its an eco terrorist group out to reduce mankind to its animal state and free mother earth from the shackles of human oppression.

[kek]

Yes it does and the zombies were misnamed from the beginning as I can't remember what chapter it was in. These "zombies" of Kc's breathe, sleep, bleed and are warm and heal. Dead things don't do any of that. It is a logical conclusion to assume that your theory could have some weight. My current tinfoil hat theory is that its an eco terrorist group out to reduce mankind to its animal state and free mother earth from the shackles of human oppression.

I agree that these aren't the typical 'zombies' in the sense that they are not rotting corpses wandering around eating people. Otherwise they would be rotten and decomposing by now. It has been too long for a form of dead body to still be up and 'functioning' Although if I remember correctly Michael and Pegs did see ones that appeared to be starving or rotting or something while on the yacht in chapter 16....

[Eviebae]

My current tinfoil hat theory is that its an eco terrorist group out to reduce mankind to its animal state and free mother earth from the shackles of human oppression.

I absolutely agree with the first part. I am undecided about the second. What ever the cause, it was created for a purpose.

Could be the "new humans" were created to:


Be more "perfect" however you define it..
Because the creators wanted to be the one's in the pinstripe suits of life (One suit to rule them all...)
A self limiting extinction device.


If they just wanted to get rid of us, it seems like over kill (so to speak) to go to the bother of creating such intricate mutations.

[Osiris]

I dislike the idea of 'genetic testing by humans', but fall in favour of 'genetic experiments by a madman'.

[Osiris]

P.S. No nasal spray was used in the development of zombies.

#FACT

[yarri]

P.S. No nasal spray was used in the development of zombies.

#FACT
No one said it was. It was used as an example of mankinds abuse of man for the sake of improvement. History is full of such things.

[yarri]

I absolutely agree with the first part. I am undecided about the second. What ever the cause, it was created for a purpose.

Could be the "new humans" were created to:


Be more "perfect" however you define it..
Because the creators wanted to be the one's in the pinstripe suits of life (One suit to rule them all...)
A self limiting extinction device.


If they just wanted to get rid of us, it seems like over kill (so to speak) to go to the bother of creating such intricate mutations.

That's why it's a tinfoil hat theory. Then again I've yet to meet a zealot of any type that was smart. I guess that can apply to tree hugging hippies.

[reaper239]

That's why it's a tinfoil hat theory. Then again I've yet to meet a zealot of any type that was smart. I guess that can apply to tree hugging hippies.

i disagree, zealots are some of the most motivated individuals in the world, and therefore strive to attain their goals harder than anyone else. this causes them to look at problems in different ways, and to be more creative. or be more stupid, it depends on the zealot.

[yarri]

i disagree, zealots are some of the most motivated individuals in the world, and therefore strive to attain their goals harder than anyone else. this causes them to look at problems in different ways, and to be more creative. or be more stupid, it depends on the zealot.
:D Name me a few friend.

[reaper239]

well, look at the 9-11 attacks for instance. as an act of terror, it was brilliant tactically. huge visibility, massive cassualty count, lots of shock value, intense after-effect. an attack that rocked america and surpassed the pearl harbor attacks, but required far less in hte way of resources, and in fat required very little resources. the operatives could almost operate completely independently of each other. brilliant move.

[yarri]

Ok I concede to your brilliance! :)

[Eviebae]

That's why it's a tinfoil hat theory. Then again I've yet to meet a zealot of any type that was smart. I guess that can apply to tree hugging hippies.

Man, what an idea though. Honey, I'm all stuffed up, can you pick up some Afrin on the way home? Then they release the catalyst and BOOM!

Re: labels like zealot, or tree hugging hippies--every group is capable of excesses and faults. It all seems like mostly "yay for my team" instead of discussion.

[Osiris]

i disagree, zealots are some of the most motivated individuals in the world, and therefore strive to attain their goals harder than anyone else. this causes them to look at problems in different ways, and to be more creative. or be more stupid, it depends on the zealot.

Considering them to be anything less than driven, intelligent, creative people is simple ignorance and an unwarranted sense of superiority.

[Eviebae]

Considering them to be anything less than driven, intelligent, creative people is simple ignorance and an unwarranted sense of superiority.

I always say that if you really want something done well, get someone who "has" to do it--is driven to do it. It's just that most people get caught in the eitherA/orB trap. Usually that means there's a third solution that everyone is too blinded to see. Even 9/11 was just bigger bs. The geniuses are the ones that come up with the third option--like nonviolent resistance.

[Osiris]

I always say that if you really want something done well, get someone who "has" to do it--is driven to do it. It's just that most people get caught in the eitherA/orB trap. Usually that means there's a third solution that everyone is too blinded to see. Even 9/11 was just bigger bs. The geniuses are the ones that come up with the third option--like nonviolent resistance.

I wonder how necessary it is to equate what's going on in the story to 9/11.

[Eviebae]

I wonder how necessary it is to equate what's going on in the story to 9/11.

I think it's a good analogy that carries emotional weight. Perhaps you think it detracts from the reality of 9/11 like how everyone calling everyone they disagree with Hitler detracts from the sense of what he did.

[Osiris]

I think it's a good analogy that carries emotional weight. Perhaps you think it detracts from the reality of 9/11 like how everyone calling everyone they disagree with Hitler detracts from the sense of what he did.

No. It detracts from the story being told in the podcast. The two don't relate as far as I'm concerned. One is based in reality, and the other a work of pure fiction. Perhaps not everyone on the planet feels the need to equate EVERYTHING to what happened in America as it serves only to raise debates that have the potential to become far too heated to be productive. Especially once opinions start to conflict with each other.

[Eviebae]

No. It detracts from the story being told in the podcast. The two don't relate as far as I'm concerned. One is based in reality, and the other a work of pure fiction. Perhaps not everyone on the planet feels the need to equate EVERYTHING to what happened in America as it serves only to raise debates that have the potential to become far too heated to be productive. Especially once opinions start to conflict with each other.

I respectfully disagree and suggest that this is a matter of personal perspective and personal tolerance. It was brought in to serve as an example illustrating a point; and I don't think it was a specious one given the argument. How much and how often someone is willing to examine the feelings that 9/11 brings up--in any light--is an individual thing.

[Osiris]

I respectfully disagree and suggest that this is a matter of personal perspective and personal tolerance. It was brought in to serve as an example illustrating a point; and I don't think it was a specious one given the argument. How much and how often someone is willing to examine the feelings that 9/11 brings up--in any light--is an individual thing.

I think there are platforms more suited to the discussion of that particular aspect of America's history. It also serves to push individuals away who don't view that event as being significant to them. There are people all over the world who have lived through mindbogglingly terrible events on a daily basis that would consider that particular event to be relatively inconsequential when juxtaposed to their village or city being carpet-bombed for days/weeks/months. Or living in cities where buses/cars/buildings explode on a weekly basis. Continually throwing it into the context of a singular event shows a lack of empathy for all of the people who deal with it as part of their daily existence.

All I'm saying is broaden the context.

[Eviebae]

I think there are platforms more suited to the discussion of that particular aspect of America's history. It also serves to push individuals away who don't view that event as being significant to them. There are people all over the world who have lived through mindbogglingly terrible events on a daily basis that would consider that particular event to be relatively inconsequential when juxtaposed to their village or city being carpet-bombed for days/weeks/months. Or living in cities where buses/cars/buildings explode on a weekly basis. Continually throwing it into the context of a singular event shows a lack of empathy for all of the people who deal with it as part of their daily existence.

All I'm saying is broaden the context.

I think if you want the discussion broadened, broaden it. "Shut up already about 9/11" is way less interesting than "you know what else illustrates or negates that point is..."

[Osiris]

I think if you want the discussion broadened, broaden it. "Shut up already about 9/11" is way less interesting than "you know what else illustrates or negates that point is..."

You're putting words in my mouth that I simply did not say.

[Luna Guardian]

You're putting words in my mouth that I simply did not say.

But sure sounded like that's what you were saying

[Osiris]

But sure sounded like that's what you were saying

Then perhaps you need to re-read what I said without the bias that I'm intimating what you want me to.

[Luna Guardian]

Then perhaps you need to re-read what I said without the bias that I'm intimating what you want me to.

I have no bias either way. Note that I haven't even taken part in the discussion 'till now, I'm just calling the situation as I see it as an outsider with an objective viewpoint. Perhaps you need to take a step away and think through what you want to be saying and what you're actually saying, as these don't seem to be the same thing at the moment?

Regardless, this has become entirely off-topic. If you wish to continue discussing along these lines, take it to the chatbox, PMs or other suitable medium and allow the thread to get back to what it was about: possible sources/causes for the outbreak.

[cupcakezombie]

Hey guys, don't let this take away from the discussion that this thread is about please. Different perspectives.
Back to source of the infection...

[Eviebae]

Then perhaps you need to re-read what I said without the bias that I'm intimating what you want me to.

See, I've obviously already read your point and if I were truly so blinded by my biases rereading it wouldn't help. What I'd like you to do is to say "It sounds like you think A; what I was trying to say was B. To engage as an equal rather than with labels. I want you to explain why I'm wrong not just call me biased.

[Osiris]

I have no bias either way. Note that I haven't even taken part in the discussion 'till now, I'm just calling the situation as I see it as an outsider with an objective viewpoint. Perhaps you need to take a step away and think through what you want to be saying and what you're actually saying, as these don't seem to be the same thing at the moment?

Regardless, this has become entirely off-topic. If you wish to continue discussing along these lines, take it to the chatbox, PMs or other suitable medium and allow the thread to get back to what it was about: possible sources/causes for the outbreak.

So this is the road you really want to travel down with me? I said what I meant and I very much meant what I said. If you need it spelled out for you, here:

If you want to draw comparisons between what is taking place in the story of We're Alive and events of terrorism in the real world, then do so, but continually using 9/11 as your 'go-to terrorist event' limits the direction that the dialogue will proceed in. Perhaps broadening the structure of the comparison would be a better way to engage everyone in the discussion along the lines which you seem to feel a need to touch upon.'

Are you a little more clear on the intention and the language used? If not we can go in circles some more. If you feel the need to put words in my mouth perhaps you're the one that needs to step away from the discussion.

[Osiris]

See, I've obviously already read your point and if I were truly so blinded by my biases rereading it wouldn't help. What I'd like you to do is to say "It sounds like you think A; what I was trying to say was B. To engage as an equal rather than with labels. I want you to explain why I'm wrong not just call me biased.

Did you not read the quote above that which you quoted? That comment was not directed at you. Unless of course, you are Luna Guardian.

[Eviebae]

Hey guys, don't let this take away from the discussion that this thread is about please. Different perspectives.
Back to source of the infection...

Sorry,
I'll move on...

I think it was a good point to suggest that it might not be an "infection." Thinking truly outside the box, what else could it be?
Ooooooh, I think I've said this before but how about it's the result of something from another dimension moving through our own--like a cube moving through flatland type thing! A creature that is organized so differently than us, when it moves though our dimension all we see is this bizarre "change" in our world. That might provide the detail of organization.

[Luna Guardian]

I have neither the interest nor the energy to argue the point with you. Multiple people have stated to you what your output looks like to people who can't see into your mind and are limited to interpret and read what you write. You can either accept this and try to grow as a human being, or you can keep denying it. Either way, I've no burning interest in the matter.

Also, do you really want to take a threatening and aggressive tone? Think about it

[Osiris]

I have neither the interest nor the energy to argue the point with you. Multiple people have stated to you what your output looks like to people who can't see into your mind and are limited to interpret and read what you write. You can either accept this and try to grow as a human being, or you can keep denying it. Either way, I've no burning interest in the matter.

Also, do you really want to take a threatening and aggressive tone? Think about it

Think about your own words versus the actions and the way you are presenting yourself.

[Luna Guardian]

Sorry,
I'll move on...

I think it was a good point to suggest that it might not be an "infection." Thinking truly outside the box, what else could it be?
Ooooooh, I think I've said this before but how about it's the result of something from another dimension moving through our own--like a cube moving through flatland type thing! A creature that is organized so differently than us, when it moves though our dimension all we see is this bizarre "change" in our world. That might provide the detail of organization.

If we close out the possibility of a virus, and utterly ridiculous ideas such as aliens or divine (Infernal?) intervention, I think a few good options might be nano-machines or parasites.

The former would allow for the "mutations" we've seen with some degree of scientific accuracy and would allow the "infection" to work through the machines multiplying in a host body. The machines could embed themselves in all tissue, or at least bodily fluids such as blood and saliva, and transfer from one carrier to another. This might also give an explanation to the "smart ones" and the coordination we've seen, since the smart ones may have more advanced machines or may employ or control them to a higher degree and through a kind of wireless network send messages to the nanites in other infected.

The parasite theory works in a similar fashion, but the mutations might be more difficult to explain. Ideas?

[7oddisdead]

A: I've missed osiris, he keeps things lively

B: if we must make a comparison of the "source" spreading though the w/a-verse..would it not be a lil more applicable to use, say..the spread of early Christianity throughout the world..absorbing/adapting to and generally overtaking many of the more "pagan" of religions?...i dunno, that was the first thing to pop into my mind honestly

And while I like the idea of dimensional stuff..it just doesn't for into this story..much the same way voodoo/religion/cabal etc doesn't my opinion is the most realistic version of what has caused this is the most likely source. No way have we been given a semi-rational scientific story this far only to have it venture into the more Sci FI of realms In the final hour..

[Osiris]

Nano-machine 'infection' is actually a really, really good theory. Would go a long way to explain the hive conciousness they seem to exhibit. An even more horrific version of the Matrix.

[Osiris]

A: I've missed osiris, he keeps things lively

B: if we must make a comparison of the "source" spreading though the w/a-verse..would it not be a lil more applicable to use, say..the spread of early Christianity throughout the world..absorbing/adapting to and generally overtaking many of the more "pagan" of religions?...i dunno, that was the first thing to pop into my mind honestly

And while I like the idea of dimensional stuff..it just doesn't for into this story..much the same way voodoo/religion/cabal etc doesn't my opinion is the most realistic version of what has caused this is the most likely source. No way have we been given a semi-rational scientific story this far only to have it venture into the more Sci FI of realms In the final hour..

I don't think we can discount how a dimensional shift or the introduction of an extra-dimensional being might affect the world. There's nothing to say that it isn't as viable a theory as any other--including nasal spray, as obtuse a theory as it is. Perhaps, some black mass went sideways and the barrier between this dimension and the adjacent one was destroyed or even momentarily removed allowing something to cross over into this world.

[7oddisdead]

Nano theory IS awesome...but now how would you plug something like ground zero into that equation? Control center of sorts?

[7oddisdead]

I don't think we can discount how a dimensional shift or the introduction of an extra-dimensional being might affect the world. There's nothing to say that it isn't as viable a theory as any other--including nasal spray, as obtuse a theory as it is. Perhaps, some black mass went sideways and the barrier between this dimension and the adjacent one was destroyed or even momentarily removed allowing something to cross over into this world.

Completely true...id prefer to not discount any theory myself...but, just looking within the confines of this story I think I would be slightly disappointed by the Sci fi-sque explanation..just personal opinion on that on..if your gonna be a bear be a bear...dont be a cat that shifts into a puma then morphs over to a bear..just doesn't feel natural to me.

[Osiris]

Nano theory IS awesome...but now how would you plug something like ground zero into that equation? Control centre of sorts?

If it's nano technology and it's causing some sort of genetic mutation then it makes sense that Ground Zero would be a research laboratory and that Patient Zero is accidental. "Oops... I dropped that vial and it broke all over my shoes. Dale is gonna be so mad at me." It could also be an experimental cancer therapy that utilizes nanobots to help destroy growths in the body without surgery or radiation treatments that went horribly awry when the nanobots (nanites? Or is that too Trek?) gained sentience a la Singularity, taking over the host body and reproducing as a means of self-preservation.

[Osiris]

Completely true...id prefer to not discount any theory myself...but, just looking within the confines of this story I think I would be slightly disappointed by the Sci fi-sque explanation..just personal opinion on that on..if your gonna be a bear be a bear...dont be a cat that shifts into a puma then morphs over to a bear..just doesn't feel natural to me.

I don't mind the SF explanation of it all. Grounding the story in some sort of science helps it to retain some sense of realism even if it is reaching. Then again, we're talking about zombies.

[7oddisdead]

You had me all the way up to singularity...aside from that. I'm totally on board with it..could not the "singularity" be the interaction between the "smart" hosts and the nanites(I like it) themselves? Would also lend to the explanation of pinstripes/randy etc..and create the perfect "hive mind" scenario we seem to gravitate toward

[Osiris]

You had me all the way up to singularity...aside from that. I'm totally on board with it..could not the "singularity" be the interaction between the "smart" hosts and the nanites(I like it) themselves? Would also lend to the explanation of pinstripes/randy etc..and create the perfect "hive mind" scenario we seem to gravitate toward

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2048299,00.html

That should explain things thoroughly.

[Luna Guardian]

Nano theory IS awesome...but now how would you plug something like ground zero into that equation? Control center of sorts?

Even the nanites would have needed to be produced somewhere. If I were to venture deep into tinfoil hat territory, I'd say that the entire nano-tech theory could have begun as an experiment to control the populace by a few chosen individuals, but something may have gone wrong. Perhaps the "servers" or some such techno-gizmos weren't ready to handle such bandwidth and what was supposed to be a controlled experiment got out of hand. Or perhaps a virus had been introduced into the nanites' programming to overwrite a part of the code, so that those injected would behave in a violent way?

As for the nasal spray, what yarri actually said was that humanity can and does do shitty things to one another. At no point did she actually state that nose-sprays were used to create zombies, she took an accurate historical example of man's cruelty in the name of science (tempted to bring up Mengele, but you're all thinking it already anyways).
That being said, I would like to stake my claim on that theory, even if it has little or no backing. A couple of years back there was news that eyedrops had been injected with acid (the plastic eyedrop containers) and that people had lost their sight because of this. Now, imagine if you will that an outbreak of a virus happens, what do most people do? They panic and stock up on readily available medication, even if its not all that useful. If you want to stoke that panic or increase the spread of your virus, you infect this medication with it, to spread it to even more of the population. If I was out spreading the zombie virus/nanite this is what I'd do. And one of the easiest ways to get it into circulation is nose-sprays because:
a) It is already in liquid form, thus more difficult to notice
b) It is sprayed directly up your nose, making infection very likely

[7oddisdead]

I don't mind the SF explanation of it all. Grounding the story in some sort of science helps it to retain some sense of realism even if it is reaching. Then again, we're talking about zombies.

and that's the danger (and fun!) of theorizing a story such as this..strong roots in science and realism...yet...frigginzombies
It can go any which way.../donethinkingtoday/

[Eviebae]

If we close out the possibility of a virus, and utterly ridiculous ideas such as aliens or divine (Infernal?) intervention, I think a few good options might be nano-machines or parasites.

The former would allow for the "mutations" we've seen with some degree of scientific accuracy and would allow the "infection" to work through the machines multiplying in a host body. The machines could embed themselves in all tissue, or at least bodily fluids such as blood and saliva, and transfer from one carrier to another. This might also give an explanation to the "smart ones" and the coordination we've seen, since the smart ones may have more advanced machines or may employ or control them to a higher degree and through a kind of wireless network send messages to the nanites in other infected.

The parasite theory works in a similar fashion, but the mutations might be more difficult to explain. Ideas?

There's always the possibility of more than one system at work or more than one wave of intervention working together. Like, you could have multiple infections of a virus each carrying a piece of the puzzle or mutation. Then, maybe nano machines providing some sort of advantage to some.

The problem with divine or infernal causes (looking at it from a purely what works in fiction perspective) is it's so intellectually and emotionally fraught it takes people out of the story. I guess, basically, it couldn't be something that a lot of people have discounted in their daily lives.

The problem with nano technology is it's a bit like the a lot of the future we've been promised. The reality right now is more "look how teeny tiny I made that chemical" rather than true machines. But that's true of just about any scientific explanation. Unless,...you could have something developed for a benign purpose being twisted.

[7oddisdead]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2048299,00.html

That should explain things thoroughly.

heh and that's why. Fully understand singularity..i just can't bring that concept into THIS story...well..i suppose I can, but damn. That just opens the floodgates.

[Osiris]

heh and that's why. Fully understand singularity..i just can't bring that concept into THIS story...well..i suppose I can, but damn. That just opens the floodgates.

It's like The Matrix with Zombies.

[Luna Guardian]

Unless,...you could have something developed for a benign purpose being twisted.

Perhaps it was designed to be used on dangerous convicts to alter their behavior to something more socially acceptable? It would explain why Ink would have been infected/injected as a possible test subject for the experiment.

And whatever the explanation turns out to be, we'll need to suspend our disbelief somewhat. Unless KC ACTUALLY has a zombie whateveritturnsouttobe at home, in which case I say let it break loose. I've perfect plans, even if Nik doesn't agree. We'll just see who outlives who Voodoo boy!

[yarri]

Perhaps it was designed to be used on dangerous convicts to alter their behavior to something more socially acceptable? It would explain why Ink would have been infected/injected as a possible test subject for the experiment.

It's a logical conclusion... convicts were second only to the mentally handicapped for use in such experiments. I'm sorry to know that fact as well. It cost me a decent blog and a few nights sleep.

[Eviebae]

You know what might be worse than knowing? Not ever knowing or even being able to figure it out. No matter what people decided was the truth, there'd always be people believing otherwise (like the moon landings).

[yarri]

You know what might be worse than knowing? Not ever knowing or even being able to figure it out. No matter what people decided was the truth, there's always be people believing otherwise (like the moon landings).


It changed my view on my profession. Some of the things I found out were real eye openers. I had no difficulties after the chapter "The Devil's workshop" of believing in illegal human experimentation. I had references from good sources on Eugenics being used here in the United States up into the 1970's. What would stop something like that from being what caused the outbreak. Maybe, the zombies had their own Dr Mengele?

[Luna Guardian]

...(like the moon landings).

Moon landings? Really? Isn't that a bit heavy handed in the present company, donchya think? ;)

[Eviebae]

Moon landings? Really? Isn't that a bit heavy handed in the present company, donchya think? ;)

Wow! That took way longer for me to get than I'd like to admit...

[Eviebae]

It changed my view on my profession. Some of the things I found out were real eye openers. I had no difficulties after the chapter "The Devil's workshop" of believing in illegal human experimentation. I had references from good sources on Eugenics being used here in the United States up into the 1970's. What would stop something like that from being what caused the outbreak. Maybe, the zombies had their own Dr Mengele?

Or Dr. Cain...

Stuff like you are talking about scares me because the line that separates those that do it from those they do it too looks so flimsy to me, but looks like Hoover Dam to them. And you can't reason them out of it no matter how well you argue.

[flyboy]

I haven't fully evolved my theory yet, but an article I read a while back on toxoplasmic parasites which currently infect the brains of around half the planet is a very scary read and something that would fit into what we currently know about the outbreak.

Please take a read...
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=547

I think a government mind altering experiment based on the toxoplasma theory got out of control.

[GeneTwo]

Heres my theory, Scratch is the source of the infection. But first a little back-story.

Scratch use to go out with a guy named Bill. Bill was your normal clean cut, sane, intelligent guy. But she was so bat sh*t insane/sadistic, it drove him crazy. First he shaved off all his hair. Then he started getting tattoos all over his body. Then he started killing people. Hay you would too if you had a relationship with Scratch.

By the way Bill Roberts gave Scratch her nick name, because thats what he did after they had sex...

Yup. You guessed it. The zombie virus is an STD. Thanks Scratch.

[Osiris]

Heres my theory, Scratch is the source of the infection. But first a little back-story.

Scratch use to go out with a guy named Bill. Bill was your normal clean cut, sane, intelligent guy. But she was so bat sh*t insane/sadistic, it drove him crazy. First he shaved off all his hair. Then he started getting tattoos all over his body. Then he started killing people. Hay you would too if you had a relationship with Scratch.

By the way Bill Roberts gave Scratch her nick name, because thats what he did after they had sex...

Yup. You guessed it. The zombie virus is an STD. Thanks Scratch.

You are so lucky that you're new. However--all polite and civil-like--I don't believe that is a sound theory.

[charles]

I like the idea of Ink being patient zero... but it falls down for me when I think of how fast the infected spread. As a story line I find it limiting as well... why not have several ground zeroes (coordinated attack), more possible Ink's out there -- more possible stories to build off of in different locations.

(brainstorm ramblings ahead)

If I were a mad-eco-scientist-type out to wipe out the population (puts on tin-foil hat) I would invent a virus with a long incubation period so it spread as far and wide as possible before showing symptoms... and, I don't know if such a thing is possible, a two-part virus that 'zipped' together when they met causing the mutation -- set them loose on each side of the world and see what happens when they finally met up.

[zombie19]

This is something I've been thinking about. What if "ground zero" was the source of some time of gas leak. Gas leaks out in mass amounts getting in the air stream. Select group of people are initially affected by the gas causing the to die and become zombified. Then the rest of the population would be eaten or infected quickly.

The gas would have to come from some type of government experiment. Maybe the virus or strain of whatever they were working reached a critical point and adapted to such a degree that it could no longer contained. Once it was out, it multiplied rapidly as it hit the airways. Like I said before, maybe the virus only initially affects a small group of people.

For this to work, there would have to be labs all over working with the same virus. This would mean that there are several "ground zero" locations. As I write this it feels weak. Sounded way better in my head.

[reaper239]

This is something I've been thinking about. What if "ground zero" was the source of some time of gas leak. Gas leaks out in mass amounts getting in the air stream. Select group of people are initially affected by the gas causing the to die and become zombified. Then the rest of the population would be eaten or infected quickly.

The gas would have to come from some type of government experiment. Maybe the virus or strain of whatever they were working reached a critical point and adapted to such a degree that it could no longer contained. Once it was out, it multiplied rapidly as it hit the airways. Like I said before, maybe the virus only initially affects a small group of people.

For this to work, there would have to be labs all over working with the same virus. This would mean that there are several "ground zero" locations. As I write this it feels weak. Sounded way better in my head.



two things, one the zombies aren't dead, just infected. two, in chapter one part such and such, before the news goes out on tivo, we hear reports of the same thing happening in cities across the country, so the multiple G0 theory looks more likely than not.

edit: maybe it wasn't chapter one, it might have been chapter 2... or three, but it was definitely part such and such, i know that much for sure.

[zombie19]

two things, one the zombies aren't dead, just infected. two, in chapter one part such and such, before the news goes out on tivo, we hear reports of the same thing happening in cities across the country, so the multiple G0 theory looks more likely than not.

edit: maybe it wasn't chapter one, it might have been chapter 2... or three, but it was definitely part such and such, i know that much for sure.

I'm going to call it a virus, just to give it a name. Say many gov. agencies have this virus and are all working with it to reach some common goal(super solider etc.) The virus matures and become uncontainable and leaks into the air undetected. This happens everywhere at the same time. The virus leaks in the open where it multiplies rapidly. Nobody is affected right away, maybe another incubation period. This would allow time for international travel, assuming that other countries don't have access to the virus.

By this time the virus will have entered the bloodstream of millions of human across the country and world. Then a the virus would undergo another change that would affect the brain and rest of the bodies functions of a small part of the population. Most people wouldn't be initially affected at all. Some people would be affected more that others in the intelligence department. From there, the rest of the population would be changed manually or eaten.

The virus would also start to transform some humans, with a certain genetic code, into something more (i.e. Smart ones, big ones, jumpers).

p.s. if this post turns out with gray font again, I will need help changing that.

[yarri]

I'm going to call it a virus, just to give it a name. Say many gov. agencies have this virus and are all working with it to reach some common goal(super solider etc.) The virus matures and become uncontainable and leaks into the air undetected. This happens everywhere at the same time. The virus leaks in the open where it multiplies rapidly. Nobody is affected right away, maybe another incubation period. This would allow time for international travel, assuming that other countries don't have access to the virus.

By this time the virus will have entered the bloodstream of millions of human across the country and world. Then a the virus would undergo another change that would affect the brain and rest of the bodies functions of a small part of the population. Most people wouldn't be initially affected at all. Some people would be affected more that others in the intelligence department. From there, the rest of the population would be changed manually or eaten.

The virus would also start to transform some humans, with a certain genetic code, into something more (i.e. Smart ones, big ones, jumpers).

p.s. if this post turns out with gray font again, I will need help changing that.

Or eco terrorists released it :)

[zombie19]

Or eco terrorists released it :)

And it went very wrong and/or worked to well. I like it.