What Should the Government Do During an Outbreak?

[Cabbage Patch]

I was hoping we could use this thread to discuss ideas of how government agencies should respond to a zombie type outbreak.

In every story I've ever seen or read about a zombie outbreaks the government response has either been abysmal, or non-existent. "We're Alive" is fairly typical. First the government misinterprets the outbreak as rioting and sends in police. Then there's an effort to activate the National Guard and set up evacuation centers. Meanwhile the zombie tide surges, fueled by panicked crowds trying to escape the outbreak, and within hours it is over.

Are we doomed if something like this happens, or is there a way that the government could do things better?

I'll throw one idea out, just to get things started.

You need to get everybody off the streets! The natural reaction to a disaster seems to be for everyone to flee, jamming the streets with cars and crowds of people who are barely moving. These crowds are like fuel for the outbreak, allowing it to grow exponentially. They also make it impossible for police or the military to respond at the very time that a strong, targetted response would be the most effective.

So my first rule for the government response to an outbreak is to direct everyone to shelter in place. Go on television and radio and tell everyone into buildings and lock the doors. This won't stop the outbreak, I'm sure the "We're Alive" zombies would break into buildings to get at the occupants. But it would dramatically slow the rate of growth, and it might help to clear the streets.

[Cabbage Patch]

The city of Bristol, England, appears to be the first city to create an "official" zombie outbreak plan. Here's a link to the story http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jul/07/when-zombies-attack-bristol-city-council-undead-invasion?INTCMP=SRCH

It's a great read. I especially liked the zombie alert stages:

• Ambient zombie level – business as usual, but be on the lookout for telltale signs.

• Enhanced activity level – confirmed zombie attacks on the populous.

• Major outbreak – zombie infection level in excess of 1%, multiple sightings across the city.

• Zombie pandemic level – concentrated outbreak, with infection levels over 30%.

[HorrorHiro]

I hope for complete and total collapse of modern day governing in any Apocalyptic scenario. But maybe that's just me after all I am an Anti-Authoritarian and an Anarchist...

[HorrorHiro]

But if the government did anything I highly doubt they would give 2 shits about the average populace. I think they would gather all the "important" people as in politicians and their families, go to the most secure location possible and "hunker down" until an opportune time to potentially "rebuild" the fucked up systems of today sometime after civilization gains its foothold again (if it does.) I picture something along the lines of the Enclave from the Fallout series. If any of this was the case I would consider it my mission to kill each and every one of them and destroy any remnants of their existence. For the possible betterment of humanities future.

[MrScott101]

Well every government should first have a book with big blue letters on the cover that say "Don't Panic!"

Honestly what probably would happen is that all the important people would go underground whilst at the same time military would mobilize immediately and attempt to quarantine the infected area's. My guess is that they would suggest all civilians to stay inside and lock their doors. If a city was infected enough, 40% or better they'd probably just bomb the city repeatedly until they could effectively go in and clear out the rest.

Evacution sites would be rooftops of tall buildings assuming it would take a while for a nom nom to get into a building that's been locked down let alone get all the way to the top.

[Osiris]

1. Panic
2. Drop bombs sporadically
3. ???
4. Profit

[mem]

The government would be the cause of the zombie pandemic. They would lie and pretend nothing happened.
"To the great populous of [city or town name here] please watch this informative public service message about odd occurances"
*government people get the **** out of dodge or into safe bunkers*
*the populous turns around and realizes that all the things the government said werent that bad are at their doors or eating their backsides*
*chaos*
*population decrease*
*survivors surviving*

[Cabbage Patch]

The government would be the cause of the zombie pandemic. They would lie and pretend nothing happened.

My second rule for the government response to an outbreak is to tell people the truth. If you know there are zombies chomping on the population you need to say as much. If the government lies about what's happening it loses its credibility and it cheats people of their best chance to survive.

[HorrorHiro]

So is this what you would want the/a government organization to do or what you think they would do? Because if you think that the government would actually care about the survival of the major populace, well no offense but that's some wishful ass thinking my friend...

[HardKor]

My second rule for the government response to an outbreak is to tell people the truth. If you know there are zombies chomping on the population you need to say as much. If the government lies about what's happening it loses its credibility and it cheats people of their best chance to survive.
You are of course assuming that the government believes the truth. People have an incredible ability to go into deep denial when faced with situations they previously believed to be impossible. The higher ups would most likely follow several wrong tracks before admitting to themselves and the general population that yes we are indeed dealing with flesh eating zombies and not some form of mass hysteria, riots, or [insert your own ludicrous explanation here].

[Cabbage Patch]

You are of course assuming that the government believes the truth. People have an incredible ability to go into deep denial when faced with situations they previously believed to be impossible. The higher ups would most likely follow several wrong tracks before admitting to themselves and the general population that yes we are indeed dealing with flesh eating zombies and not some form of mass hysteria, riots, or [insert your own ludicrous explanation here].

Excellent point. And that is the real social benefit of programs like "We're Alive". Two years ago no government official worth his salt would have believed that the zombie apocalypse was possible. Now we have the CDC publishing its zombie preparedness guidelines, we have cities like Bristol creating zombie preparedness plans that, while tongue in cheek, actually look somewhat sound. I predict that by the end of Season 5 of WA there will be a federal department of zombie preparedness!

Which is why we need to get on record now and help shape the emerging government policy. Oh, and I nominate KC Wayland for Presidential Zombie Czar.

[Luna Guardian]

[insert your own ludicrous explanation here].

Swamp gas?

What the government should do really depends on the type of zombie. Are we talking classic Romero zombies? L4D or We're Alive zombies? Zombies that explode into gas clouds that infect more people when killed? The response would have to fit the situation.

[HorrorHiro]

Are we assuming that the government would have a military to put whatever sort of plans they have into action? In the end a solider is no different from anyone else in this scenario. They would just as easily be swept into the same panic as every/anyone else.

[2bgood]

Are we assuming that the government would have a military to put whatever sort of plans they have into action? In the end a solider is no different from anyone else in this scenario. They would just as easily be swept into the same panic as every/anyone else.

Not true, they would be less likely to panic (though many would) due to their training and experience.

[Cabbage Patch]

As of Chapter 29 we have additional information on how the government reacted in the We're Alive universe.

Military bases are over run because commanders hesitate to have their troops fire on the zombies. The entire country goes silent within seven days of the outbreak. Only Fort Irwin and the City of Boulder, Colorado remain zombie free.

So Lesson 1 of what the Government should do during an Outbreak is order the troops to open fire!

[GeneTwo]

Whats with all the government hate. You govern-ist should just chill out. :p <br />
<br />
First off if the out break does happen the gov will not lie about it, and that's a fact. How do I know? Because it will...

[GeneTwo]

As of Chapter 29 we have additional information on how the government reacted in the We're Alive universe.

Military bases are over run because commanders hesitate to have their troops fire on the zombies. The entire country goes silent within seven days of the outbreak. Only Fort Irwin and the City of Boulder, Colorado remain zombie free.

So Lesson 1 of what the Government should do during an Outbreak is order the troops to open fire!

People are totally irrational, and 10X so during times of stress. Watch the first third of Dawn Of The Dead from 1978 where normal people are fighting the cops to protect zombies. Your worried about the military shooting zombies, I would be more worried about reg folks shooting back.

[Loyal Retainer]

People are totally irrational, and 10X so during times of stress. Watch the first third of Dawn Of The Dead from 1978 where normal people are fighting the cops to protect zombies. Your worried about the military shooting zombies, I would be more worried about reg folks shooting back.

You are absolutely correct. A person is a rational being, but people in a group are irrational. Look at any major disaster and you will see this. Even if the government does issue a statement I would find it hard to believe that people as a whole would listen. They will do what they think is in their best interest. There would be wide spread looting and that would draw away forces (whether local law enforcement or military troops) from the real problem at hand. I would like to believe are government would act in the interest of the public, but realistically they would fall back on COG (Continuity of Government). The people who would be responsible for reconstructing America would all be whisked away to some bunker leaving the average joe to fend for themselves. Also, the military is not prepared for something like a ZA. They are trained to shoot center mass at targets that are carrying weapons and seen as a direct threat to them. One would need some well trained and disciplined units that would be willing to shoot unarmed civilians whether they realized how dangerous a zombie populace is or not (and make those shots count).

[Drogon Malice]

put thier head between thier legs and kiss thier bum good bye

[reaper239]

i don't think it would get that far. zombies are so mainstream right now that when that miami thing went viral the internets exploded with one word- zombieattack! ok so two words crammed together, the point is, people know what zombies are, and to aim for the head. barring a we're alive style
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUph092Wyec
outbreak, i don't think it will go that far.

[ClearSights]

As of Chapter 29 we have additional information on how the government reacted in the We're Alive universe.

Military bases are over run because commanders hesitate to have their troops fire on the zombies. The entire country goes silent within seven days of the outbreak. Only Fort Irwin and the City of Boulder, Colorado remain zombie free.

So Lesson 1 of what the Government should do during an Outbreak is order the troops to open fire!

Hey Cabbage Patch, that reminded me of the book Tooth and Nail by Craig DiLouie that you recommended ahwile ago. That book pretty much follows what would happen within the government during an outbreak. And also very clearly shows how they were hesitate to fire upon the infected.

[reaper239]

Hey Cabbage Patch, that reminded me of the book Tooth and Nail by Craig DiLouie that you recommended ahwile ago. That book pretty much follows what would happen within the government during an outbreak. And also very clearly shows how they were hesitate to fire upon the infected.

see, the problem here is that we're all citing fictional work and sying "look see, this shows what would happen." except that it's just what one guy thinks would happen. think about it like this: the base is on high alert, gate guards have been double, orders to stop those who violate the checkpoint still stand, but the mg says, "don't shoot unarmed civilians." your watching people (group a) run towards the base fleeing from other people (group b) who stop and devour anyone from group a they happen to catch. i'm gonna yell three times for you to stop, and at least once you'll proly be out of ear shot. anyone who looks like a zombie or was visually identified as a member of group b will be shot, at a minimum group a will be detained but if i think you're a threat you will be dropped. think too, army and marines don't typically spend more than three years at a time on a single base (there are exceptions of course but this is a rule of thumb) are they likely to see a freind or neighbor? they don't have a lot of local F&Ns to begin with so proly not, and if they do they aren't likely to be too close. i think that once things got in full swing you'd have a harder time stopping them from shooting uninfected civilians simply because they aren't moving right, or look too bloody, or something of that nature.

[Cabbage Patch]

...army and marines don't typically spend more than three years at a time on a single base (there are exceptions of course but this is a rule of thumb) are they likely to see a freind or neighbor? they don't have a lot of local F&Ns to begin with so proly not, and if they do they aren't likely to be too close. i think that once things got in full swing you'd have a harder time stopping them from shooting uninfected civilians simply because they aren't moving right, or look too bloody, or something of that nature.

I think there's a pretty good chance that hesitating to shoot "civilians" is only going to be a problem before the first batch of them start killing the people around you, after which it's kill-or-be-killed. The problem is that first moment of hesitation. As We're Alive has shown us, and as Craig diLouie graphically describes in his books, there aren't many "second chances" in the zombie apocalypse.

[yarri]

I think there's a pretty good chance that hesitating to shoot "civilians" is only going to be a problem before the first batch of them start killing the people around you, after which it's kill-or-be-killed. The problem is that first moment of hesitation. As We're Alive has shown us, and as Craig diLouie graphically describes in his books, there aren't many "second chances" in the zombie apocalypse.

I agree with your points Cabbage... utterly and I can't rep you bah!

[random_highjinx]

So, I come from an old school military family. Every male in my family has been military as far back as we can trace our lineage. My father, specifically, had quite an interesting military career. I asked him what he thought the government would do and this is what he said, "Be less concerned about what the government would do to protect you, and be more concerned about what you would do to protect yourself." In so few words I'll outline what he said.

1. In the event of a full scale national pandemic that resembles bio-terrorisim, the government would likely shut down the country's borders then the state governments would shut down their individual borders. They would likely be enforce them with fire on sight.

2. Stay AWAY from military bases. When dealing with bio-warfare, they will shoot you if you come into their sniper space. They will not hesitate. They cannot afford to let anything infected into their compounds. Most probably don't give the military enough credit on this one. If it looks like they are dealing with biological weapons, they will shoot anyone that approaches bases/military vehicles/ships/etc. In that kind of event, it is one of their first lines of defense. If you are not a soldier in communication with the base... do not go near it. It'll give you a chance to live a lot longer.

3. If things get out of hand, they will bomb the shit out of everything. If it looks like they cannot first stop the problem, they will withdraw and try to contain it. If they cannot contain it, they will destroy it.

There's probably more details to it then that. But, there ya go. lol

[reaper239]

So, I come from an old school military family. Every male in my family has been military as far back as we can trace our lineage. My father, specifically, had quite an interesting military career. I asked him what he thought the government would do and this is what he said, "Be less concerned about what the government would do to protect you, and be more concerned about what you would do to protect yourself." In so few words I'll outline what he said.

1. In the event of a full scale national pandemic that resembles bio-terrorisim, the government would likely shut down the country's borders then the state governments would shut down their individual borders. They would likely be enforce them with fire on sight.

2. Stay AWAY from military bases. When dealing with bio-warfare, they will shoot you if you come into their sniper space. They will not hesitate. They cannot afford to let anything infected into their compounds. Most probably don't give the military enough credit on this one. If it looks like they are dealing with biological weapons, they will shoot anyone that approaches bases/military vehicles/ships/etc. In that kind of event, it is one of their first lines of defense. If you are not a soldier in communication with the base... do not go near it. It'll give you a chance to live a lot longer.

3. If things get out of hand, they will bomb the shit out of everything. If it looks like they cannot first stop the problem, they will withdraw and try to contain it. If they cannot contain it, they will destroy it.

There's probably more details to it then that. But, there ya go. lol

too true

[ClearSights]

In all tho,

No matter how much preperation there is or has been, no matter how ready the government is or will be. If anything of We're Alive magnitude happens. Everybody will turn to a Survival of the Fittess outlook.

[Loyal Retainer]

Reaper, I offer this as a counterpoint to your assumption people know what to do in a zombie attack. This dumbass in Miami decided it would be a good idea (after what just happened with the guy getting his face eaten off) to dress up like a zombie and roam the streets scaring people. Everyone runs except at the very end when he chooses the wrong group of guys to mess with.


http://youtube.com/watch?feature=m-trends&v=4awVqRr1eCo

Edit: I don't know why the video won't embed but if you have problems viewing it it is on the main page of YouTube right now. Or search Miami Zombie Attack Prank.

[reaper239]

Reaper, I offer this as a counterpoint to your assumption people know what to do in a zombie attack. This dumbass in Miami decided it would be a good idea (after what just happened with the guy getting his face eaten off) to dress up like a zombie and roam the streets scaring people. Everyone runs except at the very end when he chooses the wrong group of guys to mess with.
http://youtube.com/watch?feature=m-trends&v=4awVqRr1eCoEdit: I don't know why the video won't embed but if you have problems viewing it it is on the main page of YouTube right now. Or search Miami Zombie Attack Prank.i would actually offer that as supporting evidence, and here's why: none of those people were prepared, but everyone of them knew to put distance between themselves and the zombie, and not to take it on empty handed. then he ran into a group that had some form of arms, and they sought to fight back.

[ClearSights]

Haha watch that guys other videos, he has the biggest balls

[Loyal Retainer]

So, I come from an old school military family. Every male in my family has been military as far back as we can trace our lineage. My father, specifically, had quite an interesting military career. I asked him what he thought the government would do and this is what he said, "Be less concerned about what the government would do to protect you, and be more concerned about what you would do to protect yourself." In so few words I'll outline what he said.

1. In the event of a full scale national pandemic that resembles bio-terrorisim, the government would likely shut down the country's borders then the state governments would shut down their individual borders. They would likely be enforce them with fire on sight.

2. Stay AWAY from military bases. When dealing with bio-warfare, they will shoot you if you come into their sniper space. They will not hesitate. They cannot afford to let anything infected into their compounds. Most probably don't give the military enough credit on this one. If it looks like they are dealing with biological weapons, they will shoot anyone that approaches bases/military vehicles/ships/etc. In that kind of event, it is one of their first lines of defense. If you are not a soldier in communication with the base... do not go near it. It'll give you a chance to live a lot longer.

3. If things get out of hand, they will bomb the shit out of everything. If it looks like they cannot first stop the problem, they will withdraw and try to contain it. If they cannot contain it, they will destroy it.

There's probably more details to it then that. But, there ya go. lol

I think that a pretty spot on assessment. Military bases are going to be like hospital, don't go there unless you want to die. Even if they designate them as refugee points and allow civilians to enter I would be worried about some hiding a bite or a scratch and then all hell breaking out within the fence.

[Condor]

The government should announce to all rednecks there is a zombie hunting season, no limits, any weapons. Then just sit back and let us rednecks take care of the problem.
:)

[riskbreaker23]

Excellent point. And that is the real social benefit of programs like "We're Alive". Two years ago no government official worth his salt would have believed that the zombie apocalypse was possible. Now we have the CDC publishing its zombie preparedness guidelines, we have cities like Bristol creating zombie preparedness plans that, while tongue in cheek, actually look somewhat sound. I predict that by the end of Season 5 of WA there will be a federal department of zombie preparedness!

Which is why we need to get on record now and help shape the emerging government policy. Oh, and I nominate KC Wayland for Presidential Zombie Czar.

While the zombie preparedness is "tongue in cheek" they do it for a reason. First off, a zombie type situation is not a scientific impossibility. Maybe the George Romero version of it, yes. But there are viruses, bacteria, spores, molds, fungus(GB!), etc... that have actually done something similar to "zombification" in nature. It's not out of the realm of possibilities that one of these can be adapted to a human. In fact, a type of human rage virus (think 28 days later) is highly probable a lot of scientists say. So it's good for "tongue-in-cheek" reports and preparations but there might always be a situation where it will come in handy.

Which is also the most likely situation. A viral or bacterial epidemic that is killing in mass. Think Spanish flu, bubonic plague, etc... Since a zombie virus scenario plays out just like a flu or plague situation. Think that an infected person with the flu suddenly becomes a "zombie" and that "bite" or transmission to another person adds another "zombie". CDC and cities planning for a zombie apocalypse might make some people laugh, but there are important things to consider in such a scenario.

Anyway, I'm sure you knew all that.
Frankly I think it's the regular people who are responsible for preparations more than the government. The government is only as good as its people. I read World War Z. Spoilers below in case anyone wants to read it and hasn't.



In one chapter of the book a girl describes how a bunch of Americans decided to move north to canada and live in the wilderness because the cold seems to be a sort of kryptonite for the zombies. The girl talks about how the population was TOTALLY unprepared. Almost like they were going on a short camping trip. People brought crap that won't do any good. iPods, laptop computers, cheap sleeping bags that have ZERO insulation, perishable food instead of MREs or canned goods that can last long. They filled their cars full of first world crap. At first things were good in Canada. Then things got a little violent, and eventually people resorted to cannibalism. Amazing... they became the thing they were running from without even catching the virus. People can't live without their cozy lives. Once they have them, why go back? I love America, I love what it represents. But I know that if a really bad situation like this were to happen, we'd not pull through it very well. 3rd world countries that already understand survival skills and what is REALLY important, not their crappy iPods.

Of course, I could be wrong. We do live in a world where Survivor man and Bear Grylls are on TV. I've learned a lot just from watching Bear Grylls lol. I think I could survive in Moab, UT :)

[Solanine]

As Mr."riskbreaker23" says zombie type scenarios are possible (although the example below is unlikely to spread to humans as we are immune to most fungal infections du to our high body temperature (with obvious exceptions).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/neurophilosophy/2012/may/03/zombie-ant-parasitic-fungus

My plan for the government is pretty simple, they and military forces must survive. All military bases must be secured. The next step would be a bombing campaign as seen in Day by day Armageddon (using moabs and carpet bombing techniques rather than nukes). While this is going on the government must move to a secure position and begin planning for a safe haven. Preferably a small island that is fertile and on which agriculture is already practiced. The island must be able to host a population of workers, military personnel and the government it self. From there the government goes about locating more suitable islands, purging them of the nasties and starting new centres of population there. Communication with other surviving governments would be essential and measures must be taken to ensure that we continue to progress scientifically such as creating one or more universities. After this point with stable populations and good relations with other surviving groups the government can begin to consider reclaiming there respective country and resources necessary for humanity to begin from where we left off. Search for a vaccine/ preventive measure against infection is important but must only take place when security is ensured, no point sacrificing everything with one small accident.

[Condor]

Of course, I could be wrong. We do live in a world where Survivor man and Bear Grylls are on TV. I've learned a lot just from watching Bear Grylls lol. I think I could survive in Moab, UT :)
Don't forget the show "Doomsday Preppers". I keep waiting for an episode where the person says , "I'm prepping for the zombie apocalypse".

[zombietime]

Despite the efforts of well-meaning humans, the world has suffered terribly throughout history. This causes thinking persons to wonder, as did the late editorial writer David Lawrence: "'Peace on earth'—nearly everybody wants it. 'Good will toward men'—almost all the peoples of the world feel it toward one another. Then what's wrong? Why is war threatened despite the innate desires of peoples?"

It seems a paradox, doesn't it? When the natural desire of people is to live at peace, they commonly hate and kill one another—and with such viciousness. Consider the cold-blooded excesses in monstrous cruelty. Humans have used gas chambers, concentration camps, flamethrowers, napalm bombs, and other heinous methods to torture and slaughter one another mercilessly.

Do you believe that humans, who long for peace and happiness, are capable, in themselves, of such gross wickedness against others? What forces drive men to such loathsome deeds or maneuver them into situations where they feel compelled to commit atrocities? Have you ever wondered whether some wicked, invisible power is influencing people to commit such acts of violence?

time will come an all the human governments today will vanished.






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