Chapter 23 Pt 2 - The Devil's Workshop

[nikvoodoo]

I am Jack's thread about part 2.

KC Edit:
Here's the link for the episode: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/itpc/wwwwaylandws/Wayland_Productions/Were_Alive_-_Podcast/rssxml/~5/8QsMnW6m5mY/wa-23-2-thedevilsworkshop.mp3 (http://feedproxy.google.com/%7Er/itpc/wwwwaylandws/Wayland_Productions/Were_Alive_-_Podcast/rssxml/%7E5/8QsMnW6m5mY/wa-23-2-thedevilsworkshop.mp3)

If anyone wants the link, give them that one and only that one. iTunes is being stupid again today... yay.

[DLMiles]

So when is this comin out?

[PamG]

So glad we're starting with Saul...

[Bulldog711]

what an episode......f'n fantastic but now we have another off shoot w/ Kalani and Riley

[7oddisdead]

W T F....alls I'm saying

[Chogidog]

Damn damn damn...
I was ok with the holiday week delay till that cliffhanger....
Who's got a time machine?

[Bulldog711]

first question.....did anyone hear what the zombie said on Lizzy's recording?

[PamG]

first question.....did anyone hear what the zombie said on Lizzy's recording?

Argh! No. But I'm listening off the website (my only option right now) and it may come through more clearly via other listening vehicles.

Does anyone think we're going to lose Angel AND Burt? I think Angel will use the two sheets to get to the level below them, and effect his own escape that way. I think Burt's gonna go down shooting, trapped in that room. Dammit.

[Laura]

Wow, what a heartbreaker! I couldn't understand what the zombie said... I was trying, though!

Stupid Burt and Angel. But I have no doubt they'll pull off some pretty sweet moves and be okay. I hope...

[Chogidog]

So is Burt starting with the narration in Part 1 a good sign for his survival?

[CantWaitForSeason3]

first question.....did anyone hear what the zombie said on Lizzy's recording?

Listened in a few times and only heard snarls and growls then a "whoa" like sound at 6:30. (listening off of the mp3 file KC listed in this thread.

[Bulldog711]

So is Burt starting with the narration in Part 1 a good sign for his survival?

Maybe a post-mortum?

[j0be]

Well, I'm back to the artwork. Riley (and most likely Kalani) are still on their way to see the pinstriped zombie somewhere in the hospital. Either they are going back for Burt and Angel, or they will meet ol' pinstripe on their way to the helicopter.

[Laura]

@Chogidog, I didn't think about that. Good point. *Fingers crossed!*

[7oddisdead]

I'm with jobe...thats what I thought

[Chogidog]

Well, as long as I'm hoping... I'm hoping big. Lets go for a Matrix style helicopter window rescue.

[Bulldog711]

I swear I heard a zombie say "Now Move!" near the tail end of Lizzy's recording.....i think Angel and Burt will run into the pin-striped man....i genuinely feel like kalani and Riley will leave the hospital without angel and burt.....Saul WILL rescue lizzy

[VeritableHero]

Good grief, KC. What a well written episode.

[Mikethebassist]

Wow, What an episode! really powerful. I feel like the crew is starting to realize the severity of the situation. It feels like Burt is totally burned out on life, considering all he has been through. Angel is very reluctant to stay but understands the situation finally. Sol got a little bit of closure at least and Riley is somewhat sober in this episode. I cannot wait until the next part.

[HardKor]

Alright, step right up and place your bets! Who's gonna die?

My thoughts on this: Burt seems the most likely candidate. He's the oldest character on the show. He's a badass, so if he does go out it will most likely be awesome. He's starting to deteriorate physically. And he's got things to atone for. That has all the makings of a heroic sacrifice.

Angel on the other hand is young, and has potential but is still rough around the edges. He's one of the original three main characters. And is voiced by a co-creator of the show. Not the typical profile for a character about to die. :p

Another thought is that it strikes me that Angel and Burt are a little too certain of their own demise. It makes me think of when I first read Lord of the Rings back in High School. It seemed like half the story was the characters talking about how they were almost certainly about to die and how the odds against them were too great. Then at the last second something comes along to save them. If you let your characters go on and on about how the odds are against them and they're all going to die, and then go on to prove them right by killing them, well that's just depressing. It comes off as less of a story and more of a snuff piece.

So after all that, here's my possibilities:
A) Burt dies and goes out in a blaze of glory: This makes for a good heroic sacrifice and just feels right.

B) Angel dies and Burt lives: This would really reinforce the "anybody can die" aspect of the show and brings in a bit of reality. Death doesn't always make sense or follow what people would expect.

C) Heroic Rescue: The Tolkien solution as I'm thinking of it. It gives us a triumphant moment where everything turns out alright and our characters make it out with some glorious stores to tell.

D) They both die and everyone is sad. Tragedy, we've been set up for it and if this happens, that set up will bee fulfilled.

The thing is all these possibilities seem...well, possible. Which to me means really good story writing, because we're all left on the edges of our respective seats.
Great episode! But now I suddenly want to abandon this whole "American Independence" thing so I don't have to wait two weeks for the next one!

[Bulldog711]

HardKor; How about SKITTLES popping open a vent in the room and saving the day yet again!

[StepLaugh]

I heard the zombie say "move" too. I don't know what to think.

[Eviebae]

HardKor; How about SKITTLES popping open a vent in the room and saving the day yet again!

OOOOOOO! Vent! Air conditioning vent? Heating Vent? Yeah, I'm the one yelling "Look out behind you" at the computer. :P
They didn't describe the room too much did they, so it's hard to say what's in it.

How about Skittles being the guy in the suit holding the arrow? I looked at the picture and:
zom:(The suit looks a lighter blue without stripes
zom:(He seems bigger and buffer than Ink

I think it's someone else, not Ink

Everyone is chanting the "Burt is going to die" refrain, but ,I don't see why it should be a given. I wonder if it's because he stands out because he's so much different from the rest of the crew?? Maybe on a regular TV show he would, but KC likes to throw some originality into the mix.

[Bulldog711]

first of all KEEP IN MIND....the cover art is of a man in a suit....NOT A PINSTRIPE SUIT! This must be a new character!!!

[Adventureless_Hero]

On Lizzie's recording, it sounded like after a few growls, the zombie said, "move."

I really was stunned the whole time Bert and Angel were trapped in the room. I imagined the scene ending with Bert and Angel using the C4 to blow themselves sky high, along with a good number of biters. My hands were sweating up until the point that I heard Riley say the C4 was downstairs. That made me relax a bit. I imagine Riley and Kalani will make thier way to the chopper and use it to rescue Angel and Bert (or atleast one of them). Is the length of two bed sheets enough to make a rope to throw at a nearby helicopter?

As far as Lizzie goes, I'm afraid to say it, but I believe she, along with Bricks, Tardust, Scratch and who knows who else, are on thier merry way to the Colony. That's where Durai was headed. So now that Mission: Disturb Hornets Nest is complete they would most likely be on their way to meet up with the other half of the mallers. And by the sound of the recording, it doesn't appear that Lizzie and the others were captured. All's I got to say is, poor Saul.

[Lvmetndr]

Right at 6:29ish it does sound like a creature is saying "Move". Or it could be saying "Go". Then you hear the other creatures running away.
-Ya its sad about Saul and Lizzy. I forgot she was recording your voyage outside of the Tower. That is actually a very good idea. I'm just hoping that her kidnappers and her don't get caught by the creatures and are taken to the hospital.
-As for Angel and Burt....If Burt does die, he better go in an epic way. Maybe even save Angel in the process. Angel needs to breathe and stop yelling like a girl. Just breathe and think...
-Hopefully Riley and Kalani don't run into the suit guy. I'm betting that he pulled that arrow out of one of his minions because Riley was shooting some of them. And then he goes walking around sniffing them out.

**Very good episode. Thanks to KC for putting up an awesome episode and j0be for helping me out with dl the episode.**

[j0be]

**Very good episode. Thanks to ... j0be for helping me out with dl the episode.**

Aw shucks. I do what I can.

[Eviebae]

On Lizzie's recording, it sounded like after a few growls, the zombie said, "move." (...) As far as Lizzie goes, I'm afraid to say it, but I believe she, along with Bricks, Tardust, Scratch and who knows who else, are on thier merry way to the Colony.

Or more likely being taken to the hospital. That's why you hear the zombies up close and personal in the recording.

[Ra1th]

This is what I've been waiting for since day 1. Angel is finally showing leadership. He was the one the people looked to for leadership and orders. It's been setting up for this situation this whole episode. This entire set of characters that have been assembled are perfect for this. Riley and Kalani are Angel's best supporters, and then there's Burt. Burt is a strong leadership character, he was someone that Angel had to overcome. At the end of the day, Burt was in the second in command role. He was giving ideas and plans, but the final call came from Angel. Son of a bitch finally did it. That being said, I don't think it's over just yet. He finally made some significant progress in leadership, but he's not at Micheal's level. Not yet.

Also Saul, I hate you. Why are you so damn lucky so damn often. Keep makin' those hail marys man. You'll fail... eventually.

[Adventureless_Hero]

On Lizzie's recording, it sounded like after a few growls, the zombie said, "move." (...) As far as Lizzie goes, I'm afraid to say it, but I believe she, along with Bricks, Tardust, Scratch and who knows who else, are on thier merry way to the Colony.

Or more likely being taken to the hospital. That's why you hear the zombies up close and personal in the recording.

They could be on thier way to the hospital if they are captured later down the road. But if you listen to the recording, we hear Tardust say, "Get her in the car." Then Lizzie says "Wait, I dropped it." referring to the tape recorder, then the tires peel out and the gang is off. So that's why the zombies were up close, but I still can't say for what happens afterwards. They may very well have been captured down the road and dragged to the hospital.

EDIT


...
Also Saul, I hate you. Why are you so damn lucky so damn often. Keep makin' those hail marys man. You'll fail... eventually.

Luck favors the bold. I do fail to see how he's lucky right now. He's no closer to finding Lizzie.

[Zombiehead]

first question.....did anyone hear what the zombie said on Lizzy's recording?

To me it sounded like it said "move ahead.... move."

[Zombiehead]

This is what I've been waiting for since day 1. Angel is finally showing leadership. He was the one the people looked to for leadership and orders. It's been setting up for this situation this whole episode. This entire set of characters that have been assembled are perfect for this. Riley and Kalani are Angel's best supporters, and then there's Burt. Burt is a strong leadership character, he was someone that Angel had to overcome. At the end of the day, Burt was in the second in command role. He was giving ideas and plans, but the final call came from Angel. Son of a bitch finally did it. That being said, I don't think it's over just yet. He finally made some significant progress in leadership, but he's not at Micheal's level. Not yet.

Also Saul, I hate you. Why are you so damn lucky so damn often. Keep makin' those hail marys man. You'll fail... eventually.You mean when he wanted to risk leaving his buddy and pilot behind to be eaten by monsters or the part where Burt made him tell the others to leave? *snicker*

[AdrianHD]

Considering Kc said nothing is ever written outside of a character's viewpoint, someone has to live in this situation, and it seems like Burt has to live if he's the one writing it all.

[Fishie]

first question.....did anyone hear what the zombie said on Lizzy's recording?

The first time I listened I thought it said "No"... Relistening to it with the volume up high, it sounds more like "Mo". I'm not quite convinced that it was saying "Move" as some of the others have suggested, though I can't offer anything better. Maybe the zombies have developed a basic monosyllabic language. I don't know.

I thought that Saul finding Lizzie's recording was a great plot device, and obviously it's very emotional having him hear her voice and reacting to it. She's very good at leaving breadcrumbs, as seen in Chapter 20 when she threw the chair out the window and drew an 'M' in the dust, maybe Saul will find more clues as to where she has gone (though it would be difficult for her to do from a speeding car, I'll admit)

I don't think that both Burt and Angel will die. One of them may go, and I'm inclined to agree that Burt seems more likely, although the fact that it's almost predictable makes me think that it won't happen!

[VeritableHero]

first of all KEEP IN MIND....the cover art is of a man in a suit....NOT A PINSTRIPE SUIT! This must be a new character!!!Not to argue a small point but pinstripes are by definition small and usually not very easy to see. It can still be a pinstriped suit.

[AdrianHD]

So I got thinking:

What if this is turning into I Am Legend? The zombies out-number the humans, so what if it's the zombies who see the humans as the real 'creatures'? The zombies are becoming more human like and more intelligent. What if "We're Alive" refers to the zombies being alive rather than the humans?

[HardKor]

Not to argue a small point but pinstripes are by definition small and usually not very easy to see. It can still be a pinstriped suit.
This is true. And really, in the artwork from Chapter 11, that suit doesn't exactly look pinstriped either. It does look a little darker, but the background is also darker. The figure in the chapter 23 artwork in against a light background so his suit look lighter. I think its the same guy, and I think TOWTM, The colored one, and Ink (he was coming from court when the outbreak occurred IIRC) are all the same.

[HardKor]

So I got thinking:

What if this is turning into I Am Legend? The zombies out-number the humans, so what if it's the zombies who see the humans as the real 'creatures'? The zombies are becoming more human like and more intelligent. What if "We're Alive" refers to the zombies being alive rather than the humans?

http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?1899-We-re-Alive....A-Double-meaning-perhaps&highlight=double+meaning+We%27re+Alive

[HardKor]

I hate to pull a triple post here, but a thought just popped into my head.
In the beginning of the episode, while we're following Saul's search for Lizzie, we here's Burt's attempts to contact Saul over the radio. Meaning that Saul's part of the episode takes place before all hell breaks loose at the hospital. So now I'm wondering what the odds are the Saul shows up at the hospital to save the day with one of his famous "Hail Marys" that anger Ra1th so much.

[Pikepaw]

Dammit KC, make me get all emotional freak out much. First there was Lizzie's recording, screaming someone to tell Saul that she loves him, I get choked up. Then I almost recover just in time for Riley and Angel is have their conversation which was even more dramatic. I'm surprised I didn't actually tear up, it was so powerful a moment.

Burt needs to wake up out of this defeatist attitude. I know he's being realistic, but he could at least in the next episode get a sneer and decide to take out as many Zed's as he can. On We're Not Dead Britt is going to be saying, "Oh see, this is Burt's last stand, I'm right! Burt's going to die soon!" *cue Britt dance for being correct*. But I still hold out hope. These guys have gotten out of crazy scrapes before, (Tower burning, surrounded by flesh eaters, no ammo) and I don't believe Riley and Kalani will permanently abandon them. As soon as they get the helicopter they could make a return. During Riley and Angel's dramatic conversation, I was waiting for one of them to say, "I love you" dammit! Just putting on my Ra1th cap here.

Also it is good to hear Lizzie's voice again and know just a little of what has been happening to her. I am comforted to know that Scratch picked them up. She is relatively safer with the Mallers than with the Kid Gobblers

[smalls kenobi]

the entire time i was yelling "FUCKING RILEY!! TIE THE CLOTH TO AN ARROW AND SHOOT IT UP THERE!!!" but i'm sure the weight of the cloth might weigh it down and screw up the trajectory, but still hospital Sheets don't weigh very much.

oh, and i was getting wet eyes when Saul was listening to the tape :P

[beesting]

Bah, the short episodes are just enough to get me all back into the story, but I want more! That said, the girly side of me was super excited when Lizzie had to make sure that Saul knew she loved him. I went AWWWWWW inside. Also, I am at a total loss as to what's going to happen with the 4 in the hospital.

I'm really digging this idea of the name of the whole story being a double meaning. It definitely seems like the Zombies are gaining knowledge.

[Fishie]

I hate to pull a triple post here, but a thought just popped into my head.
In the beginning of the episode, while we're following Saul's search for Lizzie, we here's Burt's attempts to contact Saul over the radio. Meaning that Saul's part of the episode takes place before all hell breaks loose at the hospital. So now I'm wondering what the odds are the Saul shows up at the hospital to save the day with one of his famous "Hail Marys" that anger Ra1th so much.

That's a point, if they're on the same channel does that mean that Saul could hear the entire exchange between Burt/Angel and Riley/Kalani? If he figures out where they are, he might be able to do something

[Verse]

I really believe that Scratch is going to kill Liz. Saul will find them. She will go "It is 2 of the 3 people that took the tankers. What? You are an item? Well in that case..."

I remember at the old forums, right before season two started, there was a "Theories on Season 2" thread. KC made a post with only one line in it.. "If you hate Scratch now wait untill next season" or something to that effect. I think Scratch is going to be the death of Lizzy in some fashion.

[Zombiehead]

I really believe that Scratch is going to kill Liz. Saul will find them. She will go "It is 2 of the 3 people that took the tankers. What? You are an item? Well in that case..."

I remember at the old forums, right before season two started, there was a "Theories on Season 2" thread. KC made a post with only one line in it.. "If you hate Scratch now wait untill next season" or something to that effect. I think Scratch is going to be the death of Lizzy in some fashion.I don't think she would have wasted time rescuing her if she was going to kill her. I still believe she'll be used as a bargaining chip.

[Lvmetndr]

What if Saul saves Lizzy but gets shot in the process. But there are no doctors or vet dr's around to help. What if Saul dies??? Everyone keeps saying he can't have his mom and his girl so what if he gets neither and he is the one to go. Leaving his girl and his mother to bond and share the grief.

Just a thought.

[mush_rooms]

Oh God. The recording. I cried.

This is terrible.

Also, to whoever said it, I'm all for Skittles popping up out of nowhere at this point. I don't want anyone to gooooooo ;__;

[Kc]

Not to argue a small point but pinstripes are by definition small and usually not very easy to see. It can still be a pinstriped suit.
Agreed.

[Creem_Filling]

OMFG! I don't want Angel to die! *sigh* Thank you KC, for distracting me and making me suck at Halo.

[j0be]

the entire time i was yelling "FUCKING RILEY!! TIE THE CLOTH TO AN ARROW AND SHOOT IT UP THERE!!!" but i'm sure the weight of the cloth might weigh it down and screw up the trajectory, but still hospital Sheets don't weigh very much.

I really like that idea. Too bad none of the characters thought of it. Come to think of it, I didn't either.

I forget, does Riley use a crossbow or a compound bow? (I think it's safe to rule out composite bows)

Depending on the bow, I've seen anecdotal quotes of being able to shoot max distance of 50-300 yards. Standard floor heights are 8 foot each. Angel and Burt were up 6 floors (48 feet / 16 yards). I'm pretty sure that given Riley's aptitude with a bow, she would be able to successfully launch the sheets back up.

[Kn1ckerb0cker33]

first question.....did anyone hear what the zombie said on Lizzy's recording?

I believe, along with another number of people so far, that the "zombie" said "move" and the other groan might have been a "go," suggesting that there is a chain of command amongst them and that they can communicate with each other.


Well, I'm back to the artwork. Riley (and most likely Kalani) are still on their way to see the pinstriped zombie somewhere in the hospital. Either they are going back for Burt and Angel, or they will meet ol' pinstripe on their way to the helicopter.

I agree with the possibility of Riley and Kalani going back for Burt and Angel, possibly with a daring rescue with the chopper, so I'm with you there HardKor (Heroic Rescue).


So after all that, here's my possibilities:
A) Burt dies and goes out in a blaze of glory: This makes for a good heroic sacrifice and just feels right.

B) Angel dies and Burt lives: This would really reinforce the "anybody can die" aspect of the show and brings in a bit of reality. Death doesn't always make sense or follow what people would expect.

C) Heroic Rescue: The Tolkien solution as I'm thinking of it. It gives us a triumphant moment where everything turns out alright and our characters make it out with some glorious stores to tell.

D) They both die and everyone is sad. Tragedy, we've been set up for it and if this happens, that set up will bee fulfilled.

The thing is all these possibilities seem...well, possible.

Hmm, as far as these possibilities go, I would go A or C. If anyone is going to die, it probably would be Burt but I'm personally in favor of the heroic rescue because I think these two characters still have too much to offer to the story line, also I personally think it might be more of KC's style. But who knows, I'll probably be wrong.


Or more likely being taken to the hospital. That's why you hear the zombies up close and personal in the recording.

I don't think that they were taken away by the zombies, unless they were ambushed after escaping from the attack on the arena (I heard either tires screeching or "zombies" screaming but I didn't hear any human struggle).


This is what I've been waiting for since day 1. Angel is finally showing leadership. He was the one the people looked to for leadership and orders. It's been setting up for this situation this whole episode. This entire set of characters that have been assembled are perfect for this. Riley and Kalani are Angel's best supporters, and then there's Burt. Burt is a strong leadership character, he was someone that Angel had to overcome. At the end of the day, Burt was in the second in command role. He was giving ideas and plans, but the final call came from Angel. Son of a bitch finally did it. That being said, I don't think it's over just yet. He finally made some significant progress in leadership, but he's not at Micheal's level. Not yet.

Also Saul, I hate you. Why are you so damn lucky so damn often. Keep makin' those hail marys man. You'll fail... eventually.

Are we listening to the same podcast? I didn't hear Burt being submissive at all and after listening to it three times (while folding laundry) it seemed like Burt was the one who was giving orders (Angel did have the idea about the rope and roof though, no to discredit him). I'm pretty sure that Burt was the one who told Angel to tell Riley and Kalani to head for the chopper and leave them behind. I did think that Angel showed some growth by accepting that he and Burt were probably done for and for pleading Riley and Kalani to move on without them.


So I got thinking:

What if this is turning into I Am Legend? The zombies out-number the humans, so what if it's the zombies who see the humans as the real 'creatures'? The zombies are becoming more human like and more intelligent. What if "We're Alive" refers to the zombies being alive rather than the humans?

Damn nikvoodoo & AdrianHD you beat me to it. I was beginning to think the same thing a few episodes ago too =P


the entire time i was yelling "FUCKING RILEY!! TIE THE CLOTH TO AN ARROW AND SHOOT IT UP THERE!!!" but i'm sure the weight of the cloth might weigh it down and screw up the trajectory, but still hospital Sheets don't weigh very much.

oh, and i was getting wet eyes when Saul was listening to the tape :P

Nice idea, I wasn't thinking about that at the time =P. I was thinking about a heroic choppa rescue where Burt and Angel jump on the choppa's landing gear (I know 80's and 90's movie cheese XD)


Not to argue a small point but pinstripes are by definition small and usually not very easy to see. It can still be a pinstriped suit.

Agreed.

Thanks Kc for opening new theories that will be argued with for the next two weeks XD

[beesting]

I didn't see this mentioned and I just re listened to the episode for the second time and had to pull over so I could post from my phone, but did anyone notice at the end of the episode at about 16:03 Burt says about Kilani and Riley, "I didn't see it myself but he told me they eventually walked away and into the roof access leading inside, it was just the 2 of us now." Proof positive that Burt is telling this at a later date and makes it through enough to talk to Kilani.

[HardKor]

I didn't see this mentioned and I just re listened to the episode for the second time and had to pull over so I could post from my phone, but did anyone notice at the end of the episode at about 16:03 Burt says about Kilani and Riley, "I didn't see it myself but he told me they eventually walked away and into the roof access leading inside, it was just the 2 of us now." Proof positive that Burt is telling this at a later date and makes it through enough to talk to Kilani.
Burt was saying that Angel told him that Kalani and Riley walked away and into the roof access.
Burt's narration does seem to make his survival more likely though, unless he takes the time to write all this down while waiting to die. But that seems like an odd thing for Burt to do in that situation.

[Th3_T3ch]

I thought last weeks episode was good.... Well this one tops the list of amazing. This is probably THE most powerful episode that Kc and Co. have produced. It tugs at emotions, emotions that are frequently ignored in this story. Kc you are my favorite writer, second to Shakespeare. You are an amazing writer Kc, no doubt about it. I'm not even going to theorize this week OR next week. Not until the third part of Chapter 23 is out because there is no point in trying to guess what is going to happen in this situation. And to everybody who says someone is going to die, well that happens and it will be written beautifully.

[Kn1ckerb0cker33]

I didn't see this mentioned and I just re listened to the episode for the second time and had to pull over so I could post from my phone, but did anyone notice at the end of the episode at about 16:03 Burt says about Kilani and Riley, "I didn't see it myself but he told me they eventually walked away and into the roof access leading inside, it was just the 2 of us now." Proof positive that Burt is telling this at a later date and makes it through enough to talk to Kilani.


Burt was saying that Angel told him that Kalani and Riley walked away and into the roof access.
Burt's narration does seem to make his survival more likely though, unless he takes the time to write all this down while waiting to die. But that seems like an odd thing for Burt to do in that situation.

Sounds plausible. One heroic rescue coming up! (We'll see).

Oh and I guess we're getting closer to figuring out whether or not Riley has a thing for Angel

[Grognaurd]

Like many people said, did we listen to the same episode?

I do not think Burt is resigned to death or defeatist . But, he is committed to getting the mission accomplished. When Angel was not about to let go of the door handle. Burt says he does not expect him to.

Burt and Angel are on the ten floor of a ten story building. If the kid gobblers are playing kiddy soccer, Riley and Kalani should have an easy time up to the helicopter. They could also climb out a tenth story window of high rise section and help Burt and or Angel to the roof. The helicopter could be landed on the tenth floor. In addition, the higher they go, the better reception the radios have. Instead of going through walls and walls of concrete and rebar, it can go down through the air to Pegs and crew at LAX or Saul or back at the tower.

If Pegs does get the helicopter up in the air and sees Saul. Will he Cowboy up and postpone the Lizzie quest long enough to rig a rope line to airlift our friends at the hospital?

Do the zombies at the door lose Interest and walk away? Does a smart one shoe them away?

I do not know how much crap there is in this room. But it should be possible to wedge something between the opposite wall and the door if it opens into the room. I do not know how much of an overhang the roof has. It is probably not possible to climb up bed frame turned sideways and reach the roof, but it is worth a look. They have a fire truck, but it is a pumper not a hook and ladder.


Ggggrrrr! Michael, your spreading your team too thin! The only way to the hospital helicopter is by air assault. The hospital is indefensible. Any team asked to hold the door would be overrun. Then it is an old fashion coon hunt. The hounds tree the coon and then the hunter comes and shoots the poor thing.


Sorry, I am having a lot of 9/11 flashbacks and not thinking as well as I should

Art, in New York

[Hollomandious]

To me it sounded like it said "move ahead.... move."

Back in chap 10 when Ink was in the tower, he never really spoke. He just repeated things. He said, "help us.." And "paul," but he never made a real sentence.

I believe him saying "move" or whatever is him repeating scratch and others. They were yelling "move" and such.

Right? Anyone w/ me?

[Colostome boy]

when saul was listening to lizzies recording it sounded a lot like the zombie said "move" and then you heard them all running. pretty scary
Edit: also after looking at the art for the podcast as a whole and for this chapter the character looks the same to me, but i could be wrong.
Also i think that the zombies are trying to get more bodies (part 1) since the arena got blown up (along with the zombies piles of bodies) and they might just capture angel and bert, not necessarily killing them, just a thought.

[Mikeyd2tall]

when saul was listening to lizzies recording it sounded a lot like the zombie said "move" and then you heard them all running. pretty scary
Edit: also after looking at the art for the podcast as a whole and for this chapter the character looks the same to me, but i could be wrong.
Also i think that the zombies are trying to get more bodies (part 1) since the arena got blown up (along with the zombies piles of bodies) and they might just capture angel and bert, not necessarily killing them, just a thought.
thats what I thought too. im also one for the whole "riley just shoot a damn arrow with the sheet attached DAMNIT!!!!" thing. but its not plausible.

[Laura]

I know a lot of people think Riley's a lesbian, but I just can't shake the feeling that she's got the hots for Angel. She's gonna pull something off, and I'm betting she'll save both him AND Burt.

Everyone's had very interesting perspectives so far on the situation. Now... the two-week wait. UGH!

[AdrianHD]

http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?1899-We-re-Alive....A-Double-meaning-perhaps&highlight=double+meaning+We%27re+Alive

Thanks! =3

[Hollomandious]

Back in chap 10 when Ink was in the tower, he never really spoke. He just repeated things. He said, "help us.." And "paul," but he never made a real sentence.

I believe him saying "move" or whatever is him repeating scratch and others. They were yelling "move" and such.

Right? Anyone w/ me?

Dang. Just listened for the 4th time today, and realized my memory was a lil off.

Dang. Thought I was on to something.

[Hollomandious]

That's a point, if they're on the same channel does that mean that Saul could hear the entire exchange between Burt/Angel and Riley/Kalani? If he figures out where they are, he might be able to do something

In they hospital they are using short range walkie talkies (per angel as they went in to the hosp). The stuff Saul heard from Burt was CB.

[megamanxzero35]

Riley and Kalani take the bed sheets and get to the helicopter. Tie the sheets onto one of the landing bars with that knot of Kalani's, fly over and let Angel climb up into the helicopter, Burt can run and grab it and then they fly away. We already know the sheets were able to hold Kalani's weight it was just that the sheets were rubbing against the brick of the building. On the bars there will be no friction like that to cut it.

Please let this be what happens.

[nikvoodoo]

Fantastic episode.

Now I want to go back and correct last chapter's prediction tally because Bricks, Tar and Lizzy did all survive the blast.

I'm also curious as to what people would say to there not having been a massive attack by the zombies yet. We've seen a group of 20-ish attempt to attack and abscond with Tanya, and we know there's a huuuuge pile of zed heads at the hospital but how many were chasing after them? hmm....Wonder if I can call that inconclusive at the moment.

As for the arrows hoisting the sheets back up to the 10th floor: I don't think it's possible. Even if you deconstruct the rope and send it back up piece by piece, each individual sheet would be too heavy to let an arrow fly. I'm basing this off Mythbuster knowledge when they tried to cleave a tree in half. They couldn't get 3 sticks of dynamite to fly so they stuck it into the tree before they lit the fuse. And the best guess I can find is that the average stick of Dynamite weighs approximately 0.5lbs. Meaning if the sheets weigh more than 1.5 pounds they probably wouldn't fly right or at all. Not to mention so much flowing goodness behind the arrowhead would definitely mess up the flight path.

[Kn1ckerb0cker33]

Fantastic episode.

Now I want to go back and correct last chapter's prediction tally because Bricks, Tar and Lizzy did all survive the blast.

I'm also curious as to what people would say to there not having been a massive attack by the zombies yet. We've seen a group of 20-ish attempt to attack and abduct? with Tanya, and we know there's a huuuuge pile of zed heads at the hospital but how many were chasing after them? hmm....Wonder if I can call that inconclusive at the moment.

As for the arrows hoisting the sheets back up to the 10th floor: I don't think it's possible. Even if you deconstruct the rope and send it back up piece by piece, each individual sheet would be too heavy to let an arrow fly. I'm basing this off Mythbuster knowledge when they tried to cleave a tree in half. They couldn't get 3 sticks of dynamite to fly so they stuck it into the tree before they lit the fuse. And the best guess I can find is that the average stick of Dynamite weighs approximately 0.5lbs. Meaning if the sheets weigh more than 1.5 pounds they probably wouldn't fly right or at all. Not to mention so much flowing goodness behind the arrowhead would definitely mess up the flight path.

Maybe the "zombies" are congregating in a specific part of the hospital that has to do with some of the rituals that the new character in Chapter 23's artwork has in mind or Inky.

Maybe the "zombies" are a scouting party? Or perhaps they were meant to separate the group to make it easier to either capture them or kill them?

Also, that logic with the arrows seems to make sense...especially since it happened on Mythbusters =P

[HardKor]

As for the arrows hoisting the sheets back up to the 10th floor: I don't think it's possible. Even if you deconstruct the rope and send it back up piece by piece, each individual sheet would be too heavy to let an arrow fly. I'm basing this off Mythbuster knowledge when they tried to cleave a tree in half. They couldn't get 3 sticks of dynamite to fly so they stuck it into the tree before they lit the fuse. And the best guess I can find is that the average stick of Dynamite weighs approximately 0.5lbs. Meaning if the sheets weigh more than 1.5 pounds they probably wouldn't fly right or at all. Not to mention so much flowing goodness behind the arrowhead would definitely mess up the flight path.

This may be an apples and oranges situation. On Mythbusters all of the weight from the dynamite was concentrated on the shaft of the arrow. Tying off the bed sheet rope to an arrow and firing it at the window wouldn't the same concentration of weight. But I'm not sure just how much weight an arrow can tow and probably depends on the type of bow and the weight of the arrow.

[Kn1ckerb0cker33]

This may be an apples and oranges situation. On Mythbusters all of the weight from the dynamite was concentrated on the shaft of the arrow. Tying off the bed sheet rope to an arrow and firing it at the window wouldn't the same concentration of weight. But I'm not sure just how much weight an arrow can tow and probably depends on the type of bow and the weight of the arrow.

Well I assume it's probably a compound bow since Riley picked it up from a sporting goods store and since that's what is used by most modern day hunters and archers. Not to say that Riley might have picked up a modern day recurve or composite bow, but I find that unlikely since it was a sporting goods store.

I think a long bow might be able to shoot the blanket up, but I doubt that Riley is packing something that is probably as tall, if not taller then herself, indoors no less.

[7oddisdead]

Couple things...
I listened on about 5 different sources...and each time during the tape recorder part it really does sound like the zom says "move"...especially when you consider the running footsteps after that..but we have analyzed that to death already

Scratch came and got them..in the confusion, it sounded as if tardust said hurry up or THEY'll leave us..thus implies to me that more mallers than just scratch were present at that time. Which increases the chances of Lizzie and they mallers not being in the group being drug to the hospital,can't say that for sure..but strength in numbers...

If burt sent his bag down with riley, then he and angel essentially have only whatever ammo they had on their person, which does not bode well for them..and someone mentioned the idea of tying the blankets to the leg of the chopper....problem being, we are given no indication that they took the blankets with them back into the roof access hatch..only real hope on that angle is the chopper is equipped with a rope ladder...

In the last episode kalani and riley were arguing over each others usefulness,now they are paired together...sounds similar to the kalani angel adventure...hopefully the outcome will be as successful...i


Great episode, but damn...its like not even the last chapter and we have already had two cliffhangers...cant wait to see how KC leaves us hanging for the season ender;)

[Dino_Does_Zombies]

I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but I just found the placement of characters so interesting. When we first found Burt, he was locked up in a bathroom slowly dying; with Angel unwilling to sacrifice the smallest bit for anyone. Now we come full circle with both characters locked up in a room, together now changed for what seems like the better. The brilliance in the writing...amazing.

Never have I ever been more affected by a story. After months of listening to this podcast, I never knew I would be this invested in the characters. Please don't kill Burt ;)

[Zombiehead]

I know a lot of people think Riley's a lesbian, but I just can't shake the feeling that she's got the hots for Angel. She's gonna pull something off, and I'm betting she'll save both him AND Burt.

Everyone's had very interesting perspectives so far on the situation. Now... the two-week wait. UGH!

What the heck is that on your avatar???

[Rafar]

Great episode.

Surely the "Shoot the sheets back up" problem is relatively easily solved. You just cut thin strips of bedsheet (about 60 feet worth), tie them together, tie them to the end of an arrow, tie the other end to the main bedsheet rope. Then fire the arrow up, taking the much lighter thin strip up. B&A take the thin end and use that to pull up the heavier main bedsheet rope.

[Jeebogs]

Great episode.

Surely the "Shoot the sheets back up" problem is relatively easily solved. You just cut thin strips of bedsheet (about 60 feet worth), tie them together, tie them to the end of an arrow, tie the other end to the main bedsheet rope. Then fire the arrow up, taking the much lighter thin strip up. B&A take the thin end and use that to pull up the heavier main bedsheet rope.

That is probably the only way it would be possible although it would take some time to make the 'string'.
To tie a whole bedsheet to an arrow and fire it that high, against gravity, I would say is impossible. Just going by the weight of the sheet and subsequent sheets tied to the original and inertia needed to lift it. But surely this is all a moot point? They didn't do it.


Cover art: Whats the odds on Riley and Kalani coming face to face with 'might not be but could be' pinstripes, and Riley shooting off an arrow at him only for him to catch it mid-air with cat like reflexes?


It's possible Burt and Ernie, sorry, Angel just accept the situation and Burt starts writing in his journal but everything is past tense, if it were your last dying entry, surely it would be present tense ie. "Kalani and Riley have made it to the rooftop door......"
But maybe not.

+1 for the Skittles rescue!

[Zombiehead]

Check it out:

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4851/vahospital.jpg

[Kn1ckerb0cker33]

Check it out:

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4851/vahospital.jpg

OOoo looks like you found the inspiration for "Cain Medical Center"/"Cain General Hospital"

Oh as for the Cain name, I would take a guess that it has something to do with Cain and Able (the bible story), perhaps something to do with altar sacrifices, or maybe Kc just thought it sounded cool.

[mem]

zombies are back in a story of zombie survival. i am happy. i missed you zombie #3 and also you zombie #23. You both do good work.

although short, this was a fantastic episode. i really hope saul finds these asshats soon and exacts extreme vengeance upon them. hearing lizzy's voice and his reactions to her messages to him was hard to listen to. i get over that hurdle and danged if you didnt leave me fretting about angel and burt. great writing, great acting. it's all there !

[VeritableHero]

More thoughts on the art for the chapter:

Just because the man in the suit has an arrow does exactly mean that Riley has a personal encounter with him. She shot a regular biter in this episode. Maybe he pulls the arrow from one of the dead biters as the bodies are being brought to wherever his "work shop" is. (See the big read blood stain on the floor and the trail of blood away from it.)

Due to how KC is writing the story, we (the listeners) are starting to attribute more intelligence to the biters. I think that is what we should be doing. It also leads me to the following thought.

The man in the suit remembers the arrows used at the arena (shot many of his "minions" and even the eye of a big one). Finding the arrow that Riley shot in this episode could cause him to be making a mental connection between the two instances.

Does that mean he'll have his forces head back to the tower in force? Maybe he'll try to shut it down once and for all.
Is it possible he'll try to get some of the more intelligent biters to use projectile attacks, no matter how crude?
Is he more interested in catching the four in the hospital alive because he wants that intelligence / dexterity in his forces?

Most likely none of this is true. Just some thoughts.

[Professor Twain]

Did Saul say that the map had pin holes on the 110 heading north? That would be in the opposite direction of The Colony. I think he will pursue them anyway, nothing will stop him.

[Kc]

Check it out:

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4851/vahospital.jpg

Think bigger: 815

Keep in mind this isn't exactly Cain, but you get the idea...

[HardKor]

Did Saul say that the map had pin holes on the 110 heading north? That would be in the opposite direction of The Colony. I think he will pursue them anyway, nothing will stop him.
Yeah Saul mentioned pen marks on the map. But remember, the Mallers were detoured into Pinstrpe's trap on the way to the Arena. Someone may have just been marking the detour to keep from getting lost.

[yarri]

I have to say.. I wept for the first seven minutes. Then I started screaming at them to run for the remainder of the story. K.c, this one was the best one yet. I think the guys driving in the car next to me on the highway at work thought I was insane..
I can't wait for the next two weeks to be OVER!!!!

[j0be]

Think bigger: 815

Keep in mind this isn't exactly Cain, but you get the idea...


Yeah, I'm pretty sure I got it right on the google maps version.

[GD_Elite]

So last week I thought that the zombies had likely caught /Lizzy/Bricks/Tardust and I thought that this could be the way we get some more insight into what the zombies are doing at the hospital. This leads me to believe that it is quite likely that Burt/Angel will get captured by the zombies. We know they are taking live prisoners, and we need to see what the zombies are doing. (Surprised no-one has mentioned this possibility)

However, I do not think it is looking good for Angel. During this episode he references 3 different events that happened in the past within the story so far (Alley with Kalani, fridge with Riley, rooftop with Riley). This seems to me like it could be a "best bits" section for him before the end.

I also think that it is very interesting that Scratch and co came back for Lizzy/Tar/Bricks. I thought that as hardened criminals, losing a few people isn't such a big deal. However, it makes me wonder why she came back. Was it for Tardust/Bricks because they are major players in the Mallers? Or is it because of Lizzy? Scratch does seem to really want to keep Lizzy alive. (which started as soon as she realized Lizzy was sick.)

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Lack of a solid plan going in is what did them in. So, how do they get out? Kalani fires up the chopper and hovers above the window as close as possible. The ripped sheet is tied on both wheels or one. Burt holds the door while Angels makes a leap for it then Burt makes a wild attempt once Angel is clear.
That some Hollywood ish right there. However, it's better to die trying then not.

Saul is a cool dude (Ra1th!!!).

He headed in the LOGICAL direction to the most LOGICAL place. Angel did a good job keeping his head this time. He was in pure Angel form inside the car though. LOL.
I laughed my buttocks off with these characters getting turned around in the hospital. Not knowing what floor you were on is stupid, or which direction...
Bread crumbs dumbasses.. Bread crumbs!!!

[Kn1ckerb0cker33]

Absolutely. Ra1th wants to get on Saul's case because "if it were Angel, everyone would say he is stupid." I think he is just mad that Burt was the one giving Angel orders in this episode, although...

[Zombiehead]

Think bigger: Attachment 815 (http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=815)

Keep in mind this isn't exactly
Cain, but you get the idea... Yes sir! I thought it was an extremely cool concept.



OOoo looks like you found the inspiration for "Cain Medical Center"/"Cain General Hospital"

Oh as for the Cain name, I would take a guess that it has something to do with Cain and Able (the bible story), perhaps something to do with altar sacrifices, or maybe Kc just thought it sounded cool.

I figured that too. Faith-based hospitals wouldn't name their facilities after the world's first murderer (based on their beliefs).

[smalls kenobi]

Think bigger: 815

Keep in mind this isn't exactly Cain, but you get the idea...

SWEET! That's the Hospital i was picturing in my head! good ol' LAC+USC Building, haha

[Grognaurd]

Yup crow, I was not there, but I can just about guarantee there is at least one map I'm the big lobby. At that time, they were not even attacked. Call me pretty stupid for having to read a map to know were I am going. To loly gag and sight see and stumble about in a hot zone is bad.

2) Saul was listening to Burt on the Wakie talking, not the CB. Saul stated that he walked to the truck where he found Lizzie's stuff. He turned the radio off. If he turns it back on and heads down the 110 he should be able to contact the tower and Hospital.

3) there has been a lot of talk about hooking the sheets to an arrow. That will not work. But, here is something that would work. Tie a fishing line to the arrow and shoot it. Tie one end to the sheets and Burt or angel could pull it up. Yup, been fishing with bow and arrow.

Here is a link
http://www.cabelas.com/archery/bowfishing.shtml

4) "Randys" zombies. That is a behavior we have not seen before. Are they actually setting a siege? Is it a protective circle? I still believe we will find different factions of zombies, just like there are different factions of humans.

5) I think I saw this already, but it may have been buried. Checkout the hand of the character in this chapters artwork. Leftover from Burt's Bullet?

6). When I hear Burt recite this story, it sounds to me as if he is talking to someone who does not know their plan. "Like our scounts found a second..." or something like this. He also sounds like he is talking to someone close to Saul. Listen to his voice when he says little prick and nice shot, thanks for Breaking our stuff. He is biting his tongue. Lizzie, tardis, bricks and scratch? Wouldn't it be interesting to force members of the tower and mall have to work together? How far does it go before on side betrays the other?

[Kn1ckerb0cker33]

5) I think I saw this already, but it may have been buried. Checkout the hand of the character in this chapters artwork. Leftover from Burt's Bullet?

Where can I find a bigger version of Chapter 23's artwork?

[nikvoodoo]

Here (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150296371788185&set=a.433081308184.208384.123891458184&type=1) on Facebook, or if you use iTunes highlight the chapter and the you can click o the artwork in the window to enlarge it

[Kn1ckerb0cker33]

Here (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150296371788185&set=a.433081308184.208384.123891458184&type=1) on Facebook, or if you use iTunes highlight the chapter and the you can click o the artwork in the window to enlarge it

Thanks nikvoodoo!

Hmm, it's still hard to determine whether or not the hand has had a bullet hole in it, but it still is a possibility. Kc already agreed that pinstripes may be hard to see from a distance, but then again he could just be trying to throw us off and it is a new character/"zombie". I find it interesting as to why he is holding the arrow so nonchalantly.

[7oddisdead]

Remember riley said one was stalking them near the pharmacy? She claimed to put an arrow through its throat...could be maybe the same?...unlikely but would link the story so far to the art

[smalls kenobi]

Remember riley said one was stalking them near the pharmacy? She claimed to put an arrow through its throat...could be maybe the same?...unlikely but would link the story so far to the art

goog idea, buddy.

[yarri]

Think bigger: 815

Keep in mind this isn't exactly Cain, but you get the idea...

That has to be at least a 500 bed hospital.. The concept of a zombie army in there with living humans sends a new level of scary for the imagination it makes me wonder what Smart zombie doctors and nurses are doing in there.
It also says to me.. hellish rat maze of terror. Now I am worried for Angel and Burt.

[Heyyouinthebushes]

First, AMAZING episode!

Not much to add at this point. I will say that I'm not sold on the Angel/Riley conversation revealing that she has romantic feelings for Angel. Angel has been crushing on Riley throughout, but he's also been a support. The two of them have been through a lot together, and Angel has often been an advocate and supporter of Riley throughout her drinking binges. I imagine that Riley sees Angel as a very important person in her life, even if there are no romantic feelings on her end, and she would be very distraught to lose Angel.

[Magrat]

Everyone else has already spoken on how deep the emotions run in this episode, but I'll add my thoughts to the mix. While I didn't tear up as I did with Samantha, I was still quite wet in the eyes listening to Saul and lizzy & then angel and riley. Some good emotion, good set ups and good cliffhangers! Can't wait for the next one! This two week wait may kill me!

[Infinity]

Great episode! It ended to quickly though, I was *almost* disappointed when it left with that cliff hanger, but I guess I'll just have to wait!

One thing I did notice, however, is that when I listened to what the zombie said in the recording, it sounded like he said "Go" to the other zombies, since they then left Lizzy alone and went away

[SnipesR1]

ok well as i thought in part one its lookin more and more likely that angel is going to die here. wow that sounds alot sadder and gloomy now that it looks more and more likely to be the case. but if there is any hope for him surviving it might be in that Riley has burts c4 and with some thought she could go and try blowing the floor out from under burt and angel so they have a solid chance of getting outta there....that is if the blast and fall wouldnt kill or severely hurt them. or alternately she tries blowing up the floor from underneath the Z's so they wont be able to reach burt an angel as easily. but thats really hoping for best case scenario. alternatively to me im seeing burt an angel reaching the chopper some how as its about to take off and angel stays behind to defend them so they can take off(kinda halo reach style) cause likely burt would be injured somehow on the suicide run to the chopper and angel would do his duty to get them out safely to the bitter end...maybe. or someone goes all martyr an takes out a large chunk of the horde while saving the Z's prisoners i just hope he does'nt become the next samantha

there so much that could happen it could literally go anywhere

[GD_Elite]

Was anyone else upset that Burt didn't even try to do an Arnie impression when he said "get to the chopper"? lol

[Hollomandious]

I haven't heard much about the C4+WalkieTalkieRemoteDetonator pet project thing. Burt has mentioned it a couple of times and succeeded in 1 test run at the air port.

Eh? (I'd post more, but I'm using a fone an its good for reading, but not posting)

[Grognaurd]

Thanks nikvoodoo!

Hmm, it's still hard to determine whether or not the hand has had a bullet hole in it, but it still is a possibility. Kc already agreed that pinstripes may be hard to see from a distance, but then again he could just be trying to throw us off and it is a new character/"zombie". I find it interesting as to why he is holding the arrow so nonchalantly.

I have never met anyone from the show, but I think KC prides himself on attention to detail and continuity. Therefore, I suspect he would have a bullet hole wound that is distored by lack of resolution, than nothing there at all and have people claiming that he left out the bullet hole.

It almost feels like the standard shift in fortune. The nemesis has the hero right where he wants them. Then, as Burt would say, goes Blah, Blah, Blah and our heroes get away.

[Zombiefrog]

Back in chap 10 when Ink was in the tower, he never really spoke. He just repeated things. He said, "help us.." And "paul," but he never made a real sentence.

I believe him saying "move" or whatever is him repeating scratch and others. They were yelling "move" and such.

Right? Anyone w/ me?

That makes sense i thought that the zombie said go but i did notice how the other ones then ran away as to follow his instructions.

on the angel burt situation: they don't have to get to the roof they only have to get to a different room go down two floors?

where is saul going to go now?
what an amazing episode can't believe i have to wait two weeks i think kc does cliffhangers on two week gaps to drive us crazy!!!

roll on july 11th

[Zombiefrog]

Also is there a reason that i don't get the cover art work? i download from i tunes and have the same art work every week why???

[mem]

Agreed.

hmm now let's read everything into this and make deductions as to who will die. *feeds kc's comments into the computer and waits for answers*
42?
wtf ! *throws things at computer*

[CantWaitForSeason3]

Was anyone else upset that Burt didn't even try to do an Arnie impression when he said "get to the chopper"? lol

I was waiting to hear him quote Arnold ever since Kalini brought up helicopters. I hope he screams it to angel in a more intense scene.

[Don Man]

man was it just me or was anyone else almost crying at the first part with saul, it was soooo sad and come on KC Angel cant die i dont want him to. Also Angel and Rileys moment was really touching

[Magrat]

man was it just me or was anyone else almost crying at the first part with saul, it was soooo sad and come on KC Angel cant die i dont want him to. Also Angel and Rileys moment was really touching

It wasn't just you. it was brilliantly done, very moving.

[Hellbringer]

alright, I'm going to wake up monday morning and play this episode over again. Maybe I can psyche myself into thinking that there is no 2 week break. Great episode, and one I'll definitely be relistening to quite a few times to see if I can catch something new.

[Laura]

man was it just me or was anyone else almost crying at the first part with saul, it was soooo sad and come on KC Angel cant die i dont want him to. Also Angel and Rileys moment was really touching

Oh, totally. My palms were sweating more than they've ever done while listening to We're Alive! (And that's a lot, of course)

[Don Man]

It was really touching the most emotional episode so far i think

[Conf]

Yeah, I found the music from that scene really stayed with me.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Is the length of two bed sheets enough to make a rope to throw at a nearby helicopter?

As far as Lizzie goes, I'm afraid to say it, but I believe she, along with Bricks, Tardust, Scratch and who knows who else, are on thier merry way to the Colony. That's where Durai was headed. So now that Mission: Disturb Hornets Nest is complete they would most likely be on their way to meet up with the other half of the mallers. And by the sound of the recording, it doesn't appear that Lizzie and the others were captured. All's I got to say is, poor Saul.

Where did I get that idea? Was it every revealed where Durai and the other half of the Mallers were headed? I guess I just assumed they were headed south to the Colony. I was under the impression that with all thier radio monitoring equimpment, the Mallers must have heard or made contact with the Colony. Any thoughts?

[Big G]

I am thinking that Saul didn't listen to Lizzy's recording all the way through and when he or when anyone else does they might hear Lizzy saying that she heard some of the mallers mentioning that Durai went south and they will figure out that the mallers are going the colony

[Adventureless_Hero]

I'm making the assumption that Durai's Mallers went to the colony because I don't feel like we got closure with the colony. That loser, formerly known as Gatekeeper, still needs to get his comeuppance! That would be rock ass if one helicopter escorted a large group of survivors to Fort Erwin while the other was loaded with all the Tower bad asses for an air-raid on the Colony! An extraction operation to get Lizzie back. Oh, that would be so boss.

[nikvoodoo]

So I just finished listening to the box set today on the road and a thought came to mind: maybe we've been thinking too far south. Maybe Durai and the Mallers discovered the location of the other tower and that's where they went. They have covered a lot more ground in L.A. And might have stumbled upon the "ruins" of CJ's tower.

[7oddisdead]

So I just finished listening to the box set today on the road and a thought came to mind: maybe we've been thinking too far south. Maybe Durai and the Mallers discovered the location of the other tower and that's where they went. They have covered a lot more ground in L.A. And might have stumbled upon the "ruins" of CJ's tower.

the only part of that I would question is, what overall purpose would that serve them?. Nit saying I don't like the idea, because I do...perhaps..the tower gets overran to the point of Michael calling it a lost cause..everybody is on the run...and then boom we have season one ender, but with the roles reversed?...i would like that.

[nikvoodoo]

The only reason I mention it honestly is because the one thing we know the Mallers have been searching for since the very beginning of the series (other than toys that go boom) has been a better place to live. Both the Colony and the Other Tower fit the bill, but the other tower would be a better fit for them. Less rules, more control over their own fate blah blah blah.

I still believe Durai went to the Colony because that is one hell of a sexy plot twist. But in terms of fitting their basic group desire and need, The Other Tower would be a really ideal place for them. They'd just have to reestablish the defenses destroyed in the zombie raid (and they might very well have access and knowledge of the other Tower because some of their slaves might have been escapees from the Other Tower....perhaps we may meet this CJ lady after all.....hmmmm....Wouldn't be the first time we met a character we "knew for a fact" was dead.)

I love it when my mind goes all conspiracy theory! It's fun :p

[7oddisdead]

Isn't it?....and I think we are both on the same page as far as reasons go...i like your CJ is alive twist..i wouldn't have went that route..

[nikvoodoo]

The thought hadn't even crossed my mind until today. When you listen to Samantha and Kalani tell the story, nobody made it out of there alive. But we've now seen 3, potentially 4 people who escaped the zombie onslaught (Hope, Sean, That Other Dude that carried Hope, and Skittles (if you believe he's from there)).

And as a PS: As I have a tendency to shoot holes in theories 'round these parts, please go right ahead. I'm thinking off the cuff right now and would enjoy someone poking a hole in the Durai/Other Tower or CJ lives theories.....Except Kc.....that's just not nice because you already know the answers.

[7oddisdead]

Only hole I can see is while yes, durai primarily wants safe haven for his group....establishing themselves in a place that has already failed and does not expand his territory...makes this unlikely in my mind...unless he knows something we dont

[Magrat]

Only hole I can see is while yes, durai primarily wants safe haven for his group....establishing themselves in a place that has already failed and does not expand his territory...makes this unlikely in my mind...unless he knows something we dont

unless it's a stopping point. A place to hole up in while he gathers strength and aims to take over the colony...

I also like the thought that next time we see gatekeeper he's surrounded himself with durai and his heavies, only to have them do a gatekeeper and turn on him!

[HardKor]

I tend to think Durai is just following the trail of Michael, Pegs and Kelly. Tardust said the Mallers have been monitoring the "bird talk" and they may have heard Michael's transmission from the Colony also. So Durai may be following up on all that and is about to run into a big surprise when he finds out what's actually there. The Mallers are going to get down to the Colony and have a big "Holy Shit" moment when they do. That's my guess.

[SnipesR1]

it would be interesting to see durai and the colony mash up but im kinda on the fence with the mallers old enslavement habits coming back if they were to find and take over the colony, but Im thinking the colony will fire down on them cause they would think they're from the tower and it'll be a big bloody mess which would be entertaining or maybe they'll team up under their unilateral hate of the tower and siege them only to have the Z army rain down upon them which again would be a beautiful bloody mess.
well i can hope cant i

[Th3_T3ch]

did anyone notice that the biters that were snatching Tanya DIDN'T call for back up. It's curious, why would they not call more biters to their location? Randy is definitely and interesting complication

[Robzombie]

first question.....did anyone hear what the zombie said on Lizzy's recording?

(sorry, at work and have no time to go through all post's regarding this)

I'm sure at time 6:29, (chap 23, part 2 of 3), we hear a zombie make a sound and to me it sounds like he's telling his zombie buds to "move", just before we hear them leave the scene.

[Penguine]

Ok, listening through again and came across something I missed before. Not sure if this has been covered or not so I thought I would ask. In 23-2, The Devils Workshop, when Saul finds the recording that LIzzy dropped there is a part I can not make out. After Lizzy says "Tell him I love him" or something like that there is a sound of vehicles driving away but the recording is still going. At about 6:28 it sounds like something says "No" or "Go" and then there is the sound of something running off. Then at 6:45 the recording clicks off. What is said? I have to know!

Thanks!

Penguine

[LiamKerrington]

Hi.

I'm with you. Not sure about the 'no', but the 'go' seems to be there. Maybe Pinstripe or a smart one giving an order to the regular not to waste time on the abandoned wreckage and items ... Like when CJ was cornered in The Other Tower and the Zeds left her alone.

All the best!
Liam

[Litmaster]

What is said? I have to know!

That would be Ink saying "Go!", I believe (the same Zed-King who said "Leave Her" about CJ in the basement and "It's Paul" when he did his solo-trip to the Tower. I'm sure we already discussed this; go look through the old 23-2 forum if you want more details.

[Penguine]

Thats what I was thinking, but just wasn't sure so I wanted to ask others. Thanks!

[nikvoodoo]

This was covered at great length in the chapter 23-2 discussion thread. I'm merging this thread with that one.

[Robzombie]

No, at this part Ink, previousy known as Bill Roberts says "move".

[Witch_Doctor]

I re-listened to Chapter 23 part 2 and noticed something that I missed before....
This is ambiguous and probably meant to be so. Pareidolia (http://www.skepdic.com/pareidol.html) at its finest. Sounds like a Zombie saying, "NO!" then running off.



Or it could be "Go"

Just noticed this the other day, myself. I couldn't tell if KC was being insightful or having fun with all of the possible sounding words.

[Aerock]

first question.....did anyone hear what the zombie said on Lizzy's recording?


I swear I heard a zombie say "Now Move!" near the tail end of Lizzy's recording.....

I'm glad I'm not the only one that caught that! I thought it said "more," but "now move" makes more sense!

Wow, this forum is awesome! I'm still playing catch up with the series and I wish I would've been current on this a while ago... I feel like the characters in the story reading past journal entries listening the way I am.