Darwinian or Frankensteinian?

[Speirs412]

I have a small little theory which I'm not sure if someone else has mentioned. I believe that some of these zombies have not been infected by direct bites I believe that they have been built. I think there is some serious evidence for this. Datu is taken alive to the arena, now were they going to feed him to the coloured zombie or did they need him fresh for another reason. The zombies have a corpse pile and they collect their own dead, perhaps in some sort of serious recycling program. Also and this is my serious evidence for this theory in chapter 17 Angel says when him and Kalani are examining the behemoth zombie on the ground that the body didn't look right it had stretch marks and stuff. Maybe the coloured zombie is making his own Frankenstein monster like creatures. Is this crazy, am I running in the wrong direction. What do you think?

[nikvoodoo]

I won't say it's crazy because you never know, however I think it's unlikely.

The pile o' flesh in the arena is a food stockpile. The description Angel gives while hiding in the pile is the zombies are ripping the flesh off the limbs in the pile. That would be ineffective Frankenstein construction.

As for stretch marks, one other major reason the behemoths could have them is by rapidly growing into their new bodies. Much like puberty. People of all shapes and sizes end up with stretch marks from growth spurts. Behemoths might just be a regular old run of the mill human that has been endowed with super human capabilities and grew in size.

[Joosbawx]

the behemoths were described as being hulking brutes and covered in pimples, and, obviously, they're highly aggressive. to me this has the classic earmarks of steroid use. personally I think that if that is true it naturally follows that the different "special" types of zeds have been engineered...which opens a pretty big can of worms and has a few intrinsic as a theory in the light of a global outbreak; however, I think it is worth throwing out there.

[Grognaurd]

When I "saw" the bodies at the Arena, I did not think food so much as I thought spare parts. When I heard the big one thumping around, I got the impression of muscle grafting. Not a tricep but a hexcep.

I guess I have been biased from when I first heard that the original zombies seen by Michael were all bruises and scars. So, what do you think? Are genomes mutating and we are getting special zombies? (Darwinism) Is someone crafting the special zombies from parts? (Frankensteinism) Is there an intelligence that is directing the changes to the genome? (Darwinsteinism or somthing?)

[7oddisdead]

wow....interesting question. the problem is, one could go either way..yes the behemoth does seem to be something that is built not grown....but the "little one" was numbered....which at first reminded me of a lab rat..so to say...specially engineered and numbered to keep track of behaviour.

but my intial thoughts on the behemoth stems from the ""smarter on life" theory...while im sure their not quite as rampant as say..fifteen years ago..steroid use is still around. i had it in my head that say a roid user had some junk in their system at the time of the attack. if were are going by a mutation of the genetic makeup....(darwinian?)...would this not explain such behaviour? and at the same time at least somewhat contradict the numbering of the little ones....(frankensteinian)...???

i have been puzzling over this exact this for a bit now...perhaps it truly is a combo of both....with the little ones being the first of the "new breed" being introduced....thats one thing we can speculate on all day and probly never reach a conlusion that will be close to what KC actually cooks up....
fun to think about though

[Solanine]

Possibly the two are not mutually exclusive, possibly some have the genes to become a Behemoth but it depends on phenotypical variables, for example the flesh the zombies moved could have been being used to feed set zombies whom did have the required genes. I believe the changes are caused by a virus/ other pathogen which could cause variation based on genes as I have said, variation could be engineered by some "queen" for the same reason multicellular organisms have cell differentiation. Or as I have stated before it could be speciation within the virus, if it has been inactive but reproducing for long enough time for it to go world wide then it might just have had enough time to split into separate species. Although I reckon if it has been distributed world wide then it was probably dormant for a large part of that time.

[StickUpKid]

I'm going to have to Darwinian this must be mutation how would some or something create all these

[HardKor]

Hmmm.... This is a good question and I'm kind of conflicted on it.
I definitely think this thing was engineered somehow. Meaning, I don't think this was a random natural mutation that happened to produce zombies. Someone built this thing and it either got out or was let out.

Now onto the part I'm conflicted about:
Are the "special" zombies being pieced together or are they mutating from the original infected?
If they are being pieced together (Like Arthur said perhaps from the pile of body parts in the Arena) That means there is either someone left alive to keep building these things, or the zombies are doing it themselves. I have to question both prospects. The "mad scientist" angle of someone still alive cranking out zombies is a little too bad sci-fi for me. And while some of the zombies are more intelligent, they're not exactly geniuses. They plan traps and "Ink" can mimic speech...he's kind of like a parrot, and I've never seen a parrot do grotesque surgery.

Although now I'm thinking of the Super Mutants from Fallout 3. Maybe the zombies are carrying people back and exposing them to a chemical agent that mutates them. And If "Ink" is the real Ink (a.k.a the criminal mentioned on the news broadcast) he probably has some memory of tattooing which would explain the fresh ink on the "little one's" tattoo.

[StickUpKid]

But where do they find the massive parts for the behemoths or the long arms of the jumpers, would you splice body parts together and if they mutate from other types isn't that still Darwinian with a hint of frankinsteinian

[Grognaurd]

Kid, in my mind for Frank. Bones could be broken and spliced back together. For Cut off the legs above the knee. Now go to another and cut the legs off just below the hips. Splice together. Now, the femurs (upper keg bone) are almost twice as long

Gruesome? Yes.

Here is an accelerated Darwin. The Mamouths that made it. Closest to the present survived on small islands and were the size of miniture ponies. WTF? Yea, when the oceans rose after the ice age some islands were formed. This population of mammoth became separated and evolved. Since, they were on a small island, the selective pressure was to survive on less food. The result, smaller mammoths! Over generations they shrank.

This has happened several times. When lack of food is the selective pressure, species often miniturize. I thought about this when I heard of the litle ones. I would have called them wee ones. But, skittles is special. Me? I just like alliteration. What a out the tattoo? The wee ones could have them before breaking out. Alternatively, maybe there is a Marlin Perkins of Mutual of Ohmaha tagging the new wild life for the umbrella corporation or something

[7oddisdead]

Could you not make the case for an accelerated Darwin in the case of the behemoth then?..our special friend skittles did also mention that the "regulars" stay clear of the not so gentle giants...so by the same food chain logic...they would see growth -vs- wee ones ( I like it too) shrinking...could we ever see a zombified David vs goliath..?:D

[Grognaurd]

Possibly. But, you would have to show that getting big strongly improves their ability to get food. In most cases of evolution the get big thing is usually driven by competition of it's same species. So if mating is the selective pressure one often sees hugeness.

In our case, maybe the jumbo giants ( wink) are the best at eating their own kind. This could help the wee ones because maybe they can avoid attention of the big dudes. So, the "normals" are crunched in the middle.

Had not thought of that thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Of course, KC could just sa Darwin, I do not need no stinking Darwin. (saw blazing Saddles) this weekend) and tell us that they space creatures from the sixth Cygnus XI

[7oddisdead]

So very true...so what are the chances of seeing a big one punch a donkey....??;)

[Grognaurd]

I am not sure, but I will get him a candygram and I want Gene Wilder on my team! He is almost as good as Burt and might be able to help him with the shakes

[StickUpKid]

But in the case of frankentsteinian if bones are splice and muscles and all that would that render them not as good like messed up or somewhat broken. I think you get what saying. But my Money still goes on cell mustering and different reaction to each person

[Magrat]

The zombies don't seem to have an ability to reattach parts of themselves (i seem to remember a zombie with a broken foot in there somewhere...), so whatever mutated them seems to be laying dormant in the blood. This means that unless Ink was giving the zombies new injections of whatever turned them, or versions thereof, we probably wouldn't have bone-stitching. So while there is probably an element of frankenstinian in the creation of these zombies as far as what's in the test tube/person's makeup to have them turn a specific way, I don't think the physical splicing would work properly. Accelerated growth, sure. Accentuated features (ie longer arms/legs), ok. But these all happened with the initial infection of those individuals, not as a hack-and-slash creation after the fact.

Also, we've seen people be infected. We'll get some level of Darwinian mutation of the 'virus' (or whatever it is) with all that going on. So, in short, both Frank (lab brewed not re-building bodies) and Dar.

[nikvoodoo]

All I'm going to say about this now other than reiterate what I've said before (Franken-zombies should be impossible if being "created" by zombies) is this conversation may take off in earnest in about 10 hours.....just saying'. You'll find out shortly why.

[Magrat]

All I'm going to say about this now other than reiterate what I've said before (Franken-zombies should be impossible if being "created" by zombies) is this conversation may take off in earnest in about 10 hours.....just saying'. You'll find out shortly why.

Wow. That's almost as enigmatic as KC at his best! Evil evil Nikvoodoo! Making us wait.

[7oddisdead]

and here I thought I may actually go to sleep in the morning...thank you sir...

[nikvoodoo]

Yeah.....I can be an evil prick sometimes....get your sleep 7odd. Sleep is a good thing.

[nikvoodoo]

Chapter 23 title contained in tags. Be forewarned

I just saw Kc released the "secret" on the Facebook Page so I'll spill it here: chapter 23's title is "The Devil's workshop"

[Grognaurd]

Frankenstein's monster would not be able to sew on a new hand. But the doctor might ba able to do so.

My point is that our current culture knows so much about DNA splicing / Viruses that it is now a commonplace plot device. Int the late 1960's we were in the space age and had nuclear radiation from the 1950's. Voila, Romero says strange radiation from space is causative. Way back when Mary Shelly wrote Frankenstein, the big deal was the effect of electricity. Scientist could cause a corpse to move, but never had enough had enough power to reignite the "Spark of Life". So, science harvests lightning.

So, if every one is expecting a virus (Fast Ball) throw them a curve with a blended mechanism or a change up by going back to something else that has fallen out of favor.

[StickUpKid]

Oh shit, nik its the hospital the hospital is where they fix or do other things to the zombies

[StickUpKid]

There fore the devils workshop

[Adventureless_Hero]

I think we have a combination of the two taking place. There appear to be special type zombies that naturally occur when someone is bitten. A good example of this is the Smart Ones. Hospitals with doctors, libraries with brainy readers, and labs were all places to avoid. I think that we even got to see the creation of a smart one with Tommy; when he was bitten he attacked like a ferral animal. When he was shot he played dead for a bit. Realizing that he was outnumbered, he appeared to display intelligence by retreating. He may have even intentionally crashed through the stairwell door to feed the flames and burn the tower down. I believe Tommy was becoming one of the Smart One's.

Then there are those zombies that appear to be engineered; the little ones. Thier short stature is a strange trait as well as thier abnormally long fingers with intentionally sharpened claws. I don't believe they were put together using spare parts like Frankenstein's monster but perhaps they were grown. I really don't like to imagine it, but it could be possible that women are used to "grow" zombies. Though the fact that Samantha was torn to shreds would suggest otherwise. Though I'm not 100% certain she was. We hear her screams but it could be possible the zombies were...well I hate to say it, but impregnating her. You never know. It's damn ugly to think about, but I can't think of other ways zombies would make "little ones".

Just a couple of theories there to throw in the mixer.