Is Michael heading for another big I told you so?

[Grognaurd]

Michael seems to be pushing really hard to fly away. Getting people to pack up etc. But, I do not get the impression its recon. They are obviously worried about weight so that means not a lot of extra water.

Three tours in Iraq and Michael has to know the importance of water. Lack of water can kill more quickly than zombies, because one cannot hide from lack of water and no mater how many times it is shot, the threat of lack of water is not diminished.

[Don Man]

Them flying away is heading to another I told you so this being were alive there is going to be a big event which makes it go wrong

[Osiris]

Makes me wonder if they'll leave the city or find a new tower for season 3.

[Grognaurd]

How many towers are there in LA? On the outer edge of the city? My guess is one could stand on the top of the tower and Pinpoint a few. Between Kalani and Hope, they should have a feeling for how big it was. Was it 5 or 6 stories or 15 or 16 stories. They were the first ones to run into a problem with smart zombie(s) living in the arena. So, my guess is it is closer to the Arena than "our" Tower. Kalani was captured and taken there by zombies on foot. I have to guess it is less than 12 hours. What is the foot speed of a zombie or two carrying Kalani, 2maybe 3 MPH? Since we know that the regularly made supply runs that a good portion of the trip (My guess North) is realatively clear of cars or better yet, if they moved some of the cars out of the way we may have some breadcrumbs. We can also use the setup of the Ambush to figure out what direction they were headed. Kalani does not know the exact way. But, he should have a feel for the general direction (Again, I think north of LAX.) and the distance. Did it take 5 minutes at ~ 20mph or did it take 4 hours at 50MPH.

Sure a 36mile radius around the arena (Zombies Carrying Kalani) for example is pretty damn big. But, start swinging in the additional arcs from other tidbits and the area is going to shrink significantly. And remember, we are not looking for X marks the spot where we have to be right on top of it to see it. We are looking for a tower that is say more than a 100 feet tall.

Michael may have been Military Intelligence, but he does not seem to be an analyst.

[Osiris]

How many towers are there in LA? On the outer edge of the city? My guess is one could stand on the top of the tower and Pinpoint a few. Between Kalani and Hope, they should have a feeling for how big it was. Was it 5 or 6 stories or 15 or 16 stories. They were the first ones to run into a problem with smart zombie(s) living in the arena. So, my guess is it is closer to the Arena than "our" Tower. Kalani was captured and taken there by zombies on foot. I have to guess it is less than 12 hours. What is the foot speed of a zombie or two carrying Kalani, 2maybe 3 MPH? Since we know that the regularly made supply runs that a good portion of the trip (My guess North) is realatively clear of cars or better yet, if they moved some of the cars out of the way we may have some breadcrumbs. We can also use the setup of the Ambush to figure out what direction they were headed. Kalani does not know the exact way. But, he should have a feel for the general direction (Again, I think north of LAX.) and the distance. Did it take 5 minutes at ~ 20mph or did it take 4 hours at 50MPH.

Sure a 36mile radius around the arena (Zombies Carrying Kalani) for example is pretty damn big. But, start swinging in the additional arcs from other tidbits and the area is going to shrink significantly. And remember, we are not looking for X marks the spot where we have to be right on top of it to see it. We are looking for a tower that is say more than a 100 feet tall.

Michael may have been Military Intelligence, but he does not seem to be an analyst.

Jesus. You just went all Samuel Gerard on us there.

[nikvoodoo]

How many towers are there in LA? On the outer edge of the city? My guess is one could stand on the top of the tower and Pinpoint a few. Between Kalani and Hope, they should have a feeling for how big it was. Was it 5 or 6 stories or 15 or 16 stories. They were the first ones to run into a problem with smart zombie(s) living in the arena. So, my guess is it is closer to the Arena than "our" Tower. Kalani was captured and taken there by zombies on foot. I have to guess it is less than 12 hours. What is the foot speed of a zombie or two carrying Kalani, 2maybe 3 MPH? Since we know that the regularly made supply runs that a good portion of the trip (My guess North) is realatively clear of cars or better yet, if they moved some of the cars out of the way we may have some breadcrumbs. We can also use the setup of the Ambush to figure out what direction they were headed. Kalani does not know the exact way. But, he should have a feel for the general direction (Again, I think north of LAX.) and the distance. Did it take 5 minutes at ~ 20mph or did it take 4 hours at 50MPH.

Sure a 36mile radius around the arena (Zombies Carrying Kalani) for example is pretty damn big. But, start swinging in the additional arcs from other tidbits and the area is going to shrink significantly. And remember, we are not looking for X marks the spot where we have to be right on top of it to see it. We are looking for a tower that is say more than a 100 feet tall.

Michael may have been Military Intelligence, but he does not seem to be an analyst.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/187/434210356_a844d789c4.jpg

That is the L.A. Skyline at night. There are plenty of buildings that are above the height of the Tower which would limit how far you can see from the top of any of those buildings. Even on the rooftop of a building on the outskirts of a city, you aren't going to be able to see too far because once you get an apartment tower, many more seem to just spring up all around it. Both my apartments in NYC have been in relatively suburban-esque neighborhoods, but you can really only see about 1/4 mile in any direction from the roof tops because there's always an apartment building or office tower in the way. I realize it's not the same thing, but urban planning puts similar buildings with similar buildings to keep things looking neat and tidy.

And the supply run that got ambushed did not necessarily have to be North of the our Tower. The path was cleared by the Mallers recently to get the tankers up there for the attack. That path was closed off and not very usable before. Remember all the weaving Michael had to do when escaping the Arena with Datu? And if Kalani never went on a supply run with the Other Tower, he would have no idea what direction they went.

Also, you said you assumed the Other Tower was going North when they were ambushed by the zombies, but Saul made the bet with Lizzy he could go get Lady because his house was nearby. A couple of miles from the ambush site. And according to the map that puts them somewhere near Lynwood or Compton, not anywhere near the Arena.

I still contend that the Smart Zombies attack those that pose the largest threat. The Other Tower sent out large convoys of people. They were the most organized and proactive groups. Therefore, they got hit first. The Colony is organized and secure and gets attacked by "waves" of zombies. The Mallers and Tower have been sending out small two man parties to get supplies and they've been relatively untouched by comparison (well until recently at least...the Mallers got a little too big for their britches and got themselves attacked)

That's perhaps one of the reasons Michael doesn't make the same connections. You are assuming and guessing a lot and he would have been trained to not do that. Is that to say you are wrong and the Other Tower isn't further north? Nope. It could be. But there's a lot of ground to cover in L.A. and there are just as many other likely candidates. For instance, the area between the Tower and Saul's house could be a location for the Other Tower. After all, Hope was carried to the Colony by two guys on foot.

[Grognaurd]

Thanks for the feedback. The Ambush site was by Sauls house. But my guess is the tower is north of Sauls house. We know ground zero was more in the center of the city. So I do not think they are there and would have to travel to get there. Second the other tower had significantly more survivors. They sent out multiple foraging teams. One containing 20 of their best was hit (most likely the one Saul/Burt/Lizzie found). Despite that loss there were still many that wandered away and become zombie chow when the one with the markings attacked. After that attack there were enough to form a rescue party for Samantha. All this and others indicate it was a large number of people.

My guess is the further one is from ground zero the greater the percentage chance of survival. Again this indicates to me they are on the outer edge. It would be very interesting to ask Hope when she and her mom first got hit. When I look at your skyline I see a large amount of black. To me this implies office space. Despite being further away the light density is much higher. The tower in the lower right appears to be an apartment complex because of the large number of lit windows.

I think your idea about threat analysis is interesting. But I do not want to give them too much credit. "Paul" had difficulty with the number pad. Either his manual dexterity is shot or he still does not get it. These zombies are certainly not Romero Shufflers but nor are they masterminds bent on world domination. I do not know Samuel Gerard is. I will have too look it up. My guess is that it is not a compliment. Oh wait. My rusty synapses are linking it to the fugative

[Grognaurd]

Ok looked it up. Maybe we are about the same age, but he is way better looking.

Circling back to Kalani. I agree he would not know which way the supply runs went. But he should know the direction from LAX.

[Osiris]

Lol. Reference missed.

[nikvoodoo]

Ok looked it up. Maybe we are about the same age, but he is way better looking.

Circling back to Kalani. I agree he would not know which way the supply runs went. But he should know the direction from LAX.

Perhaps, but it can be very easy to get yourself directionally lost while navigating a city. Happens in NYC all the time.

And now I understand what you were talking about before. For some reason it didn't sink in the first time, but I get what you're theorizing about the location now.

[Grognaurd]

Oh how do I used the convoy to determine the direction to the other tower? My assumption is that the items they collected are not needed by the zombies and would remain. If the convoy is empty they are probably headed out. Loaded with batteries bottled water caned goods they are headed back. Yes it could be a side street. But I would give different weights to other clues. This has to be a route they took regularly for the trap to be set. I do not think the zombies would setup a trap in a completely random location hoping to catch something without bait

[Grognaurd]

I do not even try to figure out driving in the cities. I practically piss my pants in those concrete canyons. One I was in NYC at a traffic light cement going up higher than I can see on either side. The absolute split second the light turned green someone was laying on the horn. I am not exagerating it was not a couple of seconds. It was time zero. Oh oh puppy attack bev back later

[Jeebogs]

Michael seems to be pushing really hard to fly away. Getting people to pack up etc. But, I do not get the impression its recon. They are obviously worried about weight so that means not a lot of extra water.

Three tours in Iraq and Michael has to know the importance of water. Lack of water can kill more quickly than zombies, because one cannot hide from lack of water and no mater how many times it is shot, the threat of lack of water is not diminished.

Wasn't it Angel and Burt's idea to move to Fort Irwin? They convinced him it was the only viable option when he got back from the colony and he's making the best of what he's got.

You are right water is important, but they have no water in the tower. Apart from a supply run they did recently. Sure it's a gamble to get to fort Irwin, but Like Michael surmised, the base has it's own power and water.

Now whether they actually get there in the fist place is a different matter. I'm thinking it could go either of two ways. They struggle to get there (things happen to hamper their departure, possibly one of the choppers going down and a rescue mission is needed etc etc) but they do get there. OR they can't, for whatever reason, pull it off and end up staying either in the tower or finding something more suitable ie. less banged up.

Neither of which I can see being Michael's fault.

[Grognaurd]

Quickie. Re Kalani my assumption is LAX is outside of urban center. In his trip, did the buildings get bigger and more dense or was it more like row houses

[Grognaurd]

Ugh my iPad is crapping out when I try to zoom in on the map. It seems like LA is not on the ocean. So my current assumption is the photo shown is taken from the hills looking west

Oh one other thing about water. Sure the water works may be screwed up. But they still have the fire truck. It would be capable of triving up to any reservoir or other water source and suck it up and drive it back to the home base. Pump it up to the roof storage and voila no more water problems. No resevoirs. Hit up a few of the local swimming pools and use it as grey water and keep the bottled water for drinking.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Ugh my iPad is crapping out when I try to zoom in on the map. It seems like LA is not on the ocean. So my current assumption is the photo shown is taken from the hills looking west

Oh one other thing about water. Sure the water works may be screwed up. But they still have the fire truck. It would be capable of triving up to any reservoir or other water source and suck it up and drive it back to the home base. Pump it up to the roof storage and voila no more water problems. No resevoirs. Hit up a few of the local swimming pools and use it as grey water and keep the bottled water for drinking.


Water water everywhere....
Water wouldn't be an issue because they're flying. You can see plenty good from the heights they'll be at. Any map will show them where the nearest lakes are. I'm going to assume that they have water purification devices or pills. Potable water is the big issue.
If you take a look at the map of Ft. Erwin, you'll see there is a large body of water SE. Any Army installation worth 2 cents is going to have a good number of "Water Buffalos" to use. WB's are trucks with a super huge bladder in the back. They fill those up and take out to the "Field" during exercises..sorry, Civilian term would be war games or training.

How to pump the water from a lake is above and outside my lane.

[Grognaurd]

a lake is good as long as it is not seasonal. Waterbuffalos are good. But, I do not like the assumption that they will be there ready to go. Even if the outbreak never got there, If Alpha Company threw down with Delta company who knows how much damage would result. For purification one could use a sand / activated charcoal water column.

I am worried that this is a live-fire base. My guess is the army tends to place these in areas where there are not a lot of people. If there are not a lot of people the terrain in probably not very hospitable. I would reall really want to recon. Maybe even leapfrog. Edwards Airbase was along the route right? Things have changed. But, back in my day if the shit hit the fan the SAC (strategic Air Command) would lock down hard and avoid the initial onslaughts.

If we think about the evolution of civilizations we were hunter gatherers. A bunch of humans squat down in an acre or two are doing to deplete it pretty damn quick. So, pick up move on. I would strongly suggest getting several more dogs. Muts if possible. Let them free breed a few generations to get back to the ancestral dog. It is my opinion that Man really did not make great leaps forward until he domesticated dogs. Their hearing and smell complemt our sight and feeling skills.

Ah, this is way more than you want to hear. But, the tower has to think about foraging. Self-sustaining agriculture for a group of 30 is a hell of a lot of work and is not going to be spun up 0 to 60mph so to speak any time soon.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

DUDE! WTF do you know about SAC,TAC and MAC?? Woooo weee! The good old Cold War days! ROFL!

Edwards is on the way. Speaking of which, I now know i can talk with you without explaining crap. LOL!

[Grognaurd]

Sure, Here, how is this SAC TAC MAC I did not not see that you just wrote those.

Tactical Air Command
Military Airlift Command

I grew up outside of a SAC base. KC135 and FB-111

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Sure, Here, how is this SAC TAC MAC I did not not see that you just wrote those.

Tactical Air Command
Military Airlift Command

I grew up outside of a SAC base. KC135 and FB-111

I spent plenty of nights sitting in a patrol vehicle on the flight line watching KC135's at Malmstrom AFB in Montana.

[Grognaurd]

Plattsburgh, NY. Well, it could be worse, we could have been in Minot.

All around the housing of the base was a three to four foot fence. Spaced over the length was the no trespassing sign blah blah Lethal Force is Authorized. Now, I see documentaries about Area-51 with the same signs and I chuckle. Now, I am sure the security is much tighter there, but the presenters make it all like DUN DUN DUN your government ready to instantly shoot its own citizens.

The landing strip was very large, even for the military. C5's used to use it for touch and gos. Anyway, the Urban Legend was that it was one of the emergency Landing sites for the Shuttle. Well, one April Fools an AM radio annoucer said the shuttle was going to land. So, a shit load of people drove out to the flight path for typical landings. Ignoring the No Stoping Signs ever 25 - 50 feet. (oh, this was an 8' fence) So, the people like you started to go beserk, because hundreds of people were showing up at the landing zone.

I always wanted one of the SAC base signs. The Guantlet with the Lighting was so cool. But, I was way "gooder" than a goodytwoshoes, so that never happened.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

hahah. good fun. good fun. i wish I could find the SAC badge from my Beret.

[Grognaurd]

/bump for professor Twain

[Fishie]

It certainly seems like a huge gamble to go to Fort Irwin, if it's that good a location it is likely that there will be people already there, and they won't necessarily be friendly as the interactions with the mallers and the colony have shown us

[shric debar]

It certainly seems like a huge gamble to go to Fort Irwin, if it's that good a location it is likely that there will be people already there, and they won't necessarily be friendly as the interactions with the mallers and the colony have shown us

^^ this. It pretty much sums up my sentiments

[Fishie]

^^ this. It pretty much sums up my sentiments

As I said in another thread, I'm imagining the unfriendly army guys from 28 Days Later

[Cabbage Patch]

I spent a year stationed at Fort Irwin, and it was already full of unfriendly army guys back then.

[Professor Twain]

I spent a year stationed at Fort Irwin, and it was already full of unfriendly army guys back then.

Thanks for the bump on this thread.

Hard to imagine the Tower folks flying in and the Irwin guys going all kumba ya on them.

[fighter]

yea

[Cabbage Patch]

Say what you will about the virtues of travelling to Fort Irwin, but you have to admit that the idea has energized the survivors. They're off exploring new areas of the city, they have one, possibly two helicopters, they're rigging the roof-top to serve as a landing site.

I personally don't think we want the survivors to go to Fort Irwin, at least not yet. In LA they can get into all kinds of mischief, meet and interact with other groups of survivors, maybe even learn something about what caused the zombies in the first place. And they can use their helicopters to fly from point to point! Fort Irwin feels too much like an ending point for the story, a place to hide, regroup, survive, but where one that's too isolated to make for an interesting story.