Follow the Silencer

[Grognaurd]

Assumption: Only one silenced Pistol and it was used by The Shooter. The only people that have a reasonable chance to access it are Michael, Angel, Riley and Pegs.


How many?
1) The Classic Pistol that was given to Michael by Burt
2) There was a silenced MP5 taken from the Colony
3) Some other gun.

(3) This is the least likely. There is no provenance for another silenced weapon. But, I think KC prides himself that plot devices are referenced prior to use.

(2) The MP5 comes from the colony escape. People the audience know who are aware of the MP5’s existence. Michael, Pegs, Kelly, Victor, Tanya and Hope. This weapon could have been kept for personal use and not stored in the Armory. If so, a limited number of characters have access to it. If stored in the Armory, than we are back to square 1.

#1 Burt gives it to Michael. [provenance gap, one extreme it becomes standard issue to every patrol leaving the tower or Michael keeps it for himself] It leaves with Michael.

[Time Gap, although we know where the gun is, important events occur back at the tower. Lizzie is out of the Tower and Burt makes at least one trip outside the tower to find her. It comes back from the colony in one of the ammo bags. Probably not used in the firefight out of the colony.

[Another Gap Datu is given a heavy bag as people exit the automobile. Could be Ammo Bag(s) or medical bag.]

Burt and Saul go out looking for Lizzie. Burt could have picked up the silencer at this time. Burt/Saul request reinforcements and additional weapons outside the Maller’s Compound. Burt could have gotten the silencer at this time. Alternatively, it could be stolen from Burt at this time. If it was stolen from Burt now, the additional people known to be there are Angel, Michael, Riley. The group then splits up again. Saul and Burt are outside. Angel, Michael and Riley return to the Tower.

If there is only one silenced pistol, than if Burt is says it is in his bag, then the probability is very high that he put it in his bag and left the tower with it. That leaves Angel, Riley or Michael could have taken it. But, doing so they run the risk of getting caught. It also leaves Burt and Saul in a lurch. If it was Michael, than I would also have to say that Pegs probably has access to Michaels stuff.

Last thought. I think both the berreta and the MP5 are 9mm. But, I do not know if the configuration of the brass cases are the same. If they are different. We have an excellent clue. It does not appear that the shooter had the time to pick up their brass. If they are the same, back to square one.

[CantWaitForSeason3]

i was under the impression that Burt thought the silenced pistol was in their bag when the zombie was coming after them in the airport. With it missing tho, it probably wasn't stolen from Burt and placed back in the his armory, only to be stolen out of the armory again.

[ghrantt]

i was under the impression that Burt thought the silenced pistol was in their bag when the zombie was coming after them in the airport. With it missing tho, it probably wasn't stolen from Burt and placed back in the his armory, only to be stolen out of the armory again.

yeah i agree and like all other little occurances in the show burt not finding the pistol at the airport is a big clue

[Grognaurd]

*sigh* I am sorry I was not clear.

Burt says the Silencer is in his bag. When Saul checks, he does not find it.
Assumption Burt really did put the silenser in his bag.

Saul was champing at the bit to go. If Burt put the gun in his bag, there really is not much of a chance for someone to remove it before he leaves.
Burt and Saul go to look for Lizzy. Then, to rally point Bravo was it? Burt and Saul meet up with at least Michael, Angel and Riley. Maybe there are others. The assault group gets weapons ready. False Alarm. Michael, Angel, Riley head back to the tower. Burt and Saul stay to look for more clues.

This is the only contact Saul and Burt have with the tower. If the gun was stolen from Burt it has to occur before he and Saul leave the tower or at the mallers.

If it is stolen, there is no reason it had to be put in the armory. It may have been kept for personal use.

Just because the armory;s alarm goes off does not mean the weapon had to be removed at this time. In order to cause some chaos so as to get access to Pipen there has to be some sort of misdirection.

[ghrantt]

you were very clear im in total agreement

[SnipesR1]

now just another side note is that Burt and/or another team went bback to his shop and cleared out the last of what is left in his vault. that and the fact that he himself says "that only like 10% of his stuff was legal" by that he means CA legal which means no suppressors allowed to be publicly owned. so its another possibility that he had more suppressed weapons that they brought back...an maybe someone with that retrieval team knew about it and grabbed it sometime later. but thats under the assumption there might of been another one but is likely not since their is no reference in the plural to more then one suppressed pistol. and if im not mistaken there is never a clear reference to the caliber of the suppressed pistol although most likes its a M9/M92 9mm pistol or possibly a .22 jetfire, but most likely the former.

[Grognaurd]

You are right and you probably no a lot more about guns than I do. The "classic" silenced pistol that has appeared a few times is called a Beretta by Michael to which gate keeper adds with a silenser, very nice. Blah Blah Blah...


In this thread I make the assumption that the silenced pistol that we know of. In the Chapter 22 thread I discuss the other possibilities.
1) A silenced MP5 comes back from the colony.
2) Some other firearm we have not seen (with Burt's place a possibility.)

This is where things can get interestnig.

I am still making the assumption that the weapon Burt thinks is in his bag is the same one the shooter used.

This theory works if it is the classic silenced weapon we know from the story or if it is a new one he picked up at his shop.

Two Possibilities. Burt Leaves the tower with the Pistol or it is removed before he leaves.

1) He leaves the tower with the silencer. If this it true, the only people known to have access to the weapon are
Burt (duh, No way Burt is the shooter)
Saul (duh, No way Saul is the shooter)
Michael
Angel
Riley
It is always possible that others came from the tower to fight the mallers. But, we do not "KNOW" that. It just complicates things


2) Burt Leaves the Tower, but the weapon is already missing. This is wide open story telling. But, to make it interesting
Supposition: Burt and Saul will want to take some water, if not food and water. Who has domain over supplies? Riley.

If Burt left the tower with the weapon my people of interest are
Michael
Angel
Riley

If Burt left the tower without it my person of interest is
Riley.

Just to be perfectly clear, we do not know what weapon was used. But, since this is a story, my guess is the pieces have to fit together. Burt missing his pistol it is a strong flag.

[Grognaurd]

In summary

Known, logic works if Michael gave Burt the silencer or Burt has another one.
Known, the weapon gets into Burt's bag.
Assumption, the weapon used in the shooting is the weapon Burt is missing.
Assumption, Burt Leaves the tower with the weapon

Question: Who has access to Burt's bag.

People of interest
Michael
Angel
Riley

If the weapon does not leave the tower who would have access to Burts Bag.
Almost everyone.

[SnipesR1]

another something of note, its never said what type of firearm pippin had on him when he arrived at the tower. but thats unlikely to be suppressed since the maulers seem to not have used any thus far. now for the last tid bit. i went back to the first time i can remember hearing the suppressed berreta being used-Chapter 15-3 when they are clearing the beach house. Listen to the sound of it then compare that back to back with the one in the pippin/maybe hope assassination, its the exact same sound so to me says that is for sure its at least the same make and caliber that burt couldnt find an someone may have stolen. its possible he had another one from the vault but more then likely its the only one and that clearly narrows down the suspects who could have grabbed it.

[Bravo Team Leader]

It's the guy who refused to sit on guard duty and Michael got Hope and Angel.

[Grognaurd]

There is another way for the silenced pistol to get back the Tower without being stolen. BUt, it gets more complicated.

Saul wants to take the Hummer. Burt convinces him they should take something smaller. I do not remember this being resolved. So, I will make the assumption they took a truck. When Saul and Burt exit the Furniture store, they call for backup. Riley, Michael, Angel respond. There is always the possibility of others. But, again it complicates things. They set up the .50cal in the hummer. When they find the mallers gone, the group fears that the mallers are going back to the tower. The team splits up. Saul and Burt investigate the mall. Angel, Michael and RIley come back to The Tower.

Victor says two trucks came back.

So, Michael Angel and Riley come back in a truck.
Saul and Burt now have the hummer. This is confirmed later when Saul asks Burt shouldn't we go back to the hummer after spending the night at the airport terminal.

When they swap truck for hummer, the silenced pistol may have ACCIDENTLTY fallen out of Burt's bag. Riley, Angel and Michael are still known to have access. We hear Datu ask for help bringing the weapons back up from the truck. Michael goes to help and Victor is asked to tell the guards to stand down and send a few down to the motor pool to help move the weapons. It could be taken now or it could have been taken by Datu. Although Victor is told to send a few more people to help, Pippen shows up and Victor tells people to get back to their post.

It is possible that it gets all the way to the armory.
It is possible that the shooter takes it out of the armory. Although it would have to be fast, the shooter might know the exact position, because they were their last night.

The above was based on the assumption that Burt and Saul leave with a truck and swap for the hummer.

But, there is still another truck. Like I said, more than just Riley, Michael and Angel went to the Mall. More Likely, it is the search team sent to look for lizzy before Saul and Burt head out.

Summary
Assumption Burt Left with the silenced Pistol
Assumption Burt/Saul leave in Truck and swap for hummer
Assumption:The pistol falls out of the bag.
Assumption: Datu, Riley Michael are the ones who move the weapons from the truck to Burt's Place.

This allows the Silenced Pistol to be shifted from Burt to the Shooter without the Shooter actually stealing the weapon from Burt, thereby placing bouth Saul and Burt in danger.

[Grognaurd]

Summary

Access to silenced weapons mentioned in the podcasts. The wild card is that it could be one we do not know.

Pistol
Angel
Michael
Riley

MP5
Michael
Victor
Pegs
Tanya
Hope
Datu (transiently when they arrive, but it mind is quickly focused on Hope not silenced weapons)

Can not be ruled out, but less likely
Tanya, carrying Med Gear. Does not know the tower well enough to understand the wiring
Victor Does not know the tower well enough to understand the wiring
Hope Does not know wiring as well blind as well as with Angel
Angel. The alarm is outside the guard room. It is unlikely the wiring goes into the guard room, but maybe there is a light that flashes Yo Burt's place. If it was Angel it was brilliant to bring Hope. She could not see him break the connection in the guard room. Subsequently, he cutss the wire somewhere else while "looking" for the cut
Pegs and Victor get a bump down because the do not have access to Burt's bag. Not impossible, less likely

Part2

Pistol
Riley
Michael
Angel (less likely)

Mp5
Michael

Michael is with Tanya, so we will drop in down in priority.

We learned that Riley is at the scene of the crime. I think Michael is smart enough to know that Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence -- Iraq Military Intelligence. Riley has had all night to sober up. There is more than enough time for her to take several large gulps and spill some on herself. My guess is Michael does not want to let Angel know at this time because of his feelings for Riley.

Circumstantial evidence. If they put an alarm on Burt's door. I am sure they did the same for Riley's store. So, she probably help Datu install it.

[Creem_Filling]

There is another way for the silenced pistol to get back the Tower without being stolen. BUt, it gets more complicated.

I like what you're saying. Maybe it was all an accident the pistol being lost, but I doubt it. It wouldn't be a good way for the story to go about transferring the gun, I feel. Not only that, but it would be kind of complicated to explain in the story. And one last point, I'm going to assume they are using military backpacks. They're pretty easy to obtain, and would make the most sense. Those things don't just fall open. I usually destroy backpacks within a couple of months, but the military bag I have for school has lasted me a year. No tears and it's never slipped open, which always used to happen to me and I would lose books. But if it were just a zipper backpack, then that's a completely different story.

[Grognaurd]

Doh! Just listened to the episode the second time. This time with earphones. first time was the cheezy speaker from my ipad. Angel says that the alarm wiring DOES go through the guard room.

So, this bumps Angel back up about even with Riley for opportunity.

[Grognaurd]

Assumption the silenced Pistol is Burt's
Assumption the silenced Pistol was in Burt's bag when he left the tower.
Assumption the change of possesion occured outside the strip mall.

People who have the opportunity
Angel
Riley
Michael

Option 1
The gun is intensionally taken from Burt's bag without taking him.
Why would Angel take a Silenced firearm from a Brother in Arms? Remember, Pippin has not arrived. I do not know.
Why would Riley take a silenced firearm? To kill Steven
Why would Michael take it? Its "his" gun. Burt gave it to him. Still this is pretty weak.

Option 2
The silenced Berreta fell out of the bag into the truck. It is not noticed as Burt and Saul move their crap to the Hummer.
At the Tower who would have access (KNOWN only. random people could help bring the stuff from the truck to armory.
Riley
Michael
Angel
Datu

Why?
Riley, finds it and wants to kill steven.
Michael fiinds it when he gets out of the truck and picks it up because it is "his" (we know michael was not the shooter.)
Angel is with the weapons and the truck at the time Pippen arrives. He grabs it because it is Handy. When he finds out who the intruder is, he hold onto the pistol.
Datu, Similar to Angel. Helping but inturupted by Pippen

[ilanagl]

As long as it's not Riley I don't care to much about who the shooter is.

[Grognaurd]

Noted. That would be Steven, bravo team leader

[Grognaurd]

MP5 (silenced)

This comes back with the crew from the colony

Michael
Hope
Pegs
Tanya
Victor

To which I add Datu. He is handed a bag which he proclaims is Heavy. They may have stopped and put their weapons in the bags. But, they are more likely to be stopped by zombies than cops. So my guess is they held on to them. Pegs was the last one to have the silenced MP5. She left the colony with an M16, but swapped with Michael who had the silenced mp5 so Michael could use the added range of the M16. Pegs wouldn't carry a weapon previously. Without an assigned weapon she may take this one.

This rules out Datu
We can rule out Tanya and Michael
We can rule out Hope unless she is a really good actress and frightens herself between shots. Has more in common with Dare Devil than Hellen Keller not to mention the alarm timing

Leaves
Pegs (who had it last as far as I know)
Victor (Here Pegs let me help you with that)
Kelley (as above or want me to give that to Burt and in the armory for you? I am going that way)

[Grognaurd]

Ah, I gotta backup. I just relistened to the excape from the colony. Although Pegs does throw the M16 to Michael, it is not EXplicity stated Michael throws her the silenced MP5

[ClearSights]

There could also be other reasons that are far-fetched. As-in, during the war, the mole told the maulers on the radio he/she needed a weapon and they brought one and gave it to he/she during the commotion. Or even that the mole just had a silenced pistol the whole time ( doubtful though since they are all checked before entering ) (( Unless it was one of the original 6 )).

Just my thoughts

[Grognaurd]

Good thought. After The War, The Tower dis collect various firearms left by the mallers. It may have been found there.

[ClearSights]

Yeah, Thats the only place another weapon could of possibly appeared, but I doubt it and still believe your main theories are most likely correct.

[fighter]

steaven