Angel and Scratch's relationship

[HardKor]

Alright,
I just had an epiphany of sorts and have formed a wild ass theory about Angel, Scratch, and the rat. Bear with me on this.

In 20-3 after Scratch said she had to drop Pippin off, Tardust asked "What about the other one?" Scratch replied "We still have them." Tardust then said he meant the other one, insinuating he was talking about the rat. Scratch replied that they hadn't heard anything in awhile.

So it sounds like the Mallers have some unknown person in their possession who will probably turn out to be important. So here's where my theory comes in.
We've been wondering how Angel and Scratch know each other and some have wondered if Angel has some kind of criminal past. But what if he isn't the one with the criminal past? What if he knows someone with a record. Someone who may have been locked up in Eastern Bay? He could have met Scratch while visiting this person (with Scratch there to visit Latch at the same time). Scratch then recognizes Angel later, finds Angel's person (who would have been with the Mallers after they got out of the prison), and uses that person as leverage to force Angel to rat on the Tower.

[nikvoodoo]

Ra1th, take a deep breath before you reply to this post.

Its plausible, but here's my one contention: If Angel is truly being leveraged into being the Rat it's a hard pill to swallow that Scratch would risk that entire operation by saying "Hey, you look familiar" in front of other people of the Tower. That seems like a horribly short sided maneuver by Scratch and its one of the few times she wasn't in one of her now (in)famous rages.

[Ra1th]

I hear a lot of “could haves” and “maybes” this whole theory is based on "what if" after "what if". There is no concrete backing. With prediction theories, each time you use a "what if" your accuracy goes down exponentially. Ask voodoo, his lounge theories are never specific and they take nothing for granted otherwise he wouldn't have the accuracy rate he does.

Other thing you should consider, Kc gives small hints throughout the series but its never this simple. Otherwise we’d have figured out the series ending by now.

[HardKor]

I did call it my "wild ass theory." I'm not suggesting that any of it be taken as 100% proven. Just a few things that lined up in a certain way in my head.

[nikvoodoo]

I did call it my "wild ass theory." I'm not suggesting that any of it be taken as 100% proven. Just a few things that lined up in a certain way in my head.

Don't worry about it. Ra1th defends Angel with an iron fist.

[Zombiehead]

I already mentioned this theory in the Episode 21.1 thread as well as my blog. If Angel knew someone with a record, what reasons would he have to want to keep it hidden post-apocalypse?

[HardKor]

I already mentioned this theory in the Episode 21.1 thread as well as my blog. If Angel knew someone with a record, what reasons would he have to want to keep it hidden post-apocalypse?

I looked for posts on this topic before I posted to see if anyone had come up with this theory already...I must have missed yours.

As for Angel not mentioning knowing someone with a record, if there was a hostage situation he may have had a compelling reason not to say anything if he had reason to fear the person might be harmed if he did.
But then that begs the question of why Angel wouldn't have mentioned knowing someone in Eastern Bay when they were discussing where to go back in Chapter 1. That is a pretty big hole in the theory. Not big enough to completely rule it out but still pretty big.
I do think Scratch saying "we still have them" implies a hostage. And having a hostage could definitely be a reason for someone in the Tower to act as the rat. But I may be doubting the Angel connection now.

[nikvoodoo]

I do think Scratch saying "we still have them" implies a hostage. And having a hostage could definitely be a reason for someone in the Tower to act as the rat. But I may be doubting the Angel connection now.

I like the thinking outside the box. That casts a shadow of doubt on just about everyone in the Tower except for Kalani if you believe his Hawaii story to be true because who would they possibly know as a connection to Kalani? Also probably Datu because all his ties appear to be in the Philippines. Everyone else in the Tower, to the best of our knowledge, are locally based and could have a friend/relative/significant other imprisoned at Eastern Bay.

[Zombiehead]

Interesting thought. They could be holding his criminal sister or something like that. Maybe someone Scratch did time with and probably saw a picture of Angel in her cell. The thing is, in Chapter 12.1, someone upstairs shot at the Mallers igniting the fight. We're under the assumption that the Rat, the person who called out to Pippin, shooter, and possibly the gun thief is all the doings of one person. Angel was downstairs when someone took the shot, he was on a mission when the guns went missing, and he was with Datu when Pippin arrived. His presence is accounted for in those incidents which makes his involvement in the Rat scheme seem unlikely, but not impossible.

[nikvoodoo]

His presence is accounted for in those incidents which makes his involvement in the Rat scheme seem unlikely, but not impossible.
Remember we still have the possibility of more than one rat. Angel could be accounted for at these times, but that doesn't necessarily mean there aren't conspiratorial rats walking around in pairs in the Tower.

[Zombiehead]

Remember we still have the possibility of more than one rat. Angel could be accounted for at these times, but that doesn't necessarily mean there aren't conspiratorial rats walking around in pairs in the Tower.True. I always thought it was more than one person but I'm not so sure they all were working for the Mallers. I think whoever took the guns was probably moving them, and then Tattoo showed up and they didn't get a chance to carry out the rest of their plans.

[Ra1th]

Occam's razor, simplest explanation is most likely the correct one. Having two rats would complicate the story a great deal. Think about it, if there was more than one rat, then these two people have to have been working together, and known each other, and conspired with each other. One rat seems to be a much simpler solution.

[Zombiehead]

Since when has WA's plot ever been so simple? I'll clarify my previous statment. There's a Tower Rat, we know this. But there's other people around as well. The soldiers and most of the designated leaders of "something" were out of the Tower at the same time. When the Cat's away the mice will play. Riley's food shop, Burt's gun shop, the generator/elevator were all open for just anyone to come in and take advantage of. From what we know of Pegs story she wasn't in there the whole time, so any number of residents could have come in and took a little food thinking it wasn't enough to cause harm. People were unhappy with Michael's leadership at the time remember? If Bill was among the the freeloaders, his apartment was left wide open. The Rat was probably working while everyone else that might be wandering the halls was distracted. Then Tattoo comes and scares everyone back into their apartments. No one's going to come forward and admit to stealing after that incident.

[Ra1th]

Since when has WA's plot ever been so simple? I'll clarify my previous statment. There's a Tower Rat, we know this. But there's other people around as well. The soldiers and most of the designated leaders of "something" were out of the Tower at the same time. When the Cat's away the mice will play. Riley's food shop, Burt's gun shop, the generator/elevator were all open for just anyone to come in and take advantage of. From what we know of Pegs story she wasn't in there the whole time, so any number of residents could have come in and took a little food thinking it wasn't enough to cause harm. People were unhappy with Michael's leadership at the time remember? If Bill was among the the freeloaders, his apartment was left wide open. The Rat was probably working while everyone else that might be wandering the halls was distracted. Then Tattoo comes and scares everyone back into their apartments. No one's going to come forward and admit to stealing after that incident.


I give there is a lot of complexity, and that they had a lot of time to conspire, but there is already a very small pool of characters to draw from here. Angel /saul /burt /kelly /datu /kalani /pegs /riley /lizzy . And then to have TWO of these main characters be traitors, that's a really big hit. That would mean there would be two people who need motive to work with the mallers not just one person. It's possible, but I dunno

[Zombiehead]

Well, not necessarily two main characters. More like one, but the Tower's extras inadvertently helped to make the situation worse.

[shananala8]

Also probably Datu because all his ties appear to be in the Philippines.

It's no guarantee that Datu has someone in the LA area, but he does tell Samantha that his brother gave him the "maintenance man" job.

[HardKor]

Interesting thought. They could be holding his criminal sister or something like that. Maybe someone Scratch did time with and probably saw a picture of Angel in her cell. The thing is, in Chapter 12.1, someone upstairs shot at the Mallers igniting the fight. We're under the assumption that the Rat, the person who called out to Pippin, shooter, and possibly the gun thief is all the doings of one person. Angel was downstairs when someone took the shot, he was on a mission when the guns went missing, and he was with Datu when Pippin arrived. His presence is accounted for in those incidents which makes his involvement in the Rat scheme seem unlikely, but not impossible.

We all seem to have combined three people into the category of "The Rat." There's the rat, who gave information to the Mallers over the radio, the thief, who stole ammo and food from Burt and Riley's shops, and the shooter, who took the first shot during the War. They aren't necessarily the same person, nor are they necessarily conspirators.

The thief could very easily have been acting out of selfishness. Bill seems to be the leading suspect for this, and he did say "I'm sorry" before he died, which could have been an admission of guilt in the theft. But its unclear.

The shooter may have been acting out of panic. (S)he might have just seen the Mallers surrounding the Tower, and being drunk from the party and not making good decisions, panicked and took the shot that kicked off the War.

Its the Rat I'm most worried about. Unless there is some more evidence that the thief and shooter are the same person as the rat I'm assuming them to be separate. But I'm certainly not going to rule out the possibility that they might all be the same person, or a group of conspirators, entirely.

[Osiris]

I would have been inclined to consider Saul being connected to Scratch as he's the only known resident to have done time. It's possible she'd seen Saul and Angel together at some point and remembered him. Something else to consider is perhaps she's planting a seed of doubt in the minds of the other residents.

[Eviebae]

I do think Scratch saying "we still have them" implies a hostage. And having a hostage could definitely be a reason for someone in the Tower to act as the rat. But I may be doubting the Angel connection now.

This is pretty much what I am thinking. Plus Pippin sounded desperate and frustrated that they didn't believe him. That plays well with his story, but also works if you think he was left there with a task to perform and a loved one in peril if he does not succeed.

[rottenash]

The Pippen and loved one hostage story does sound good, would explain his desparation for the tower believe him.

[cycogod]

I think scratch and angel hit it...maybe he wasn't very good or she was lacking in some area. maybe angel still owes her money? what if datu hit it and when scratch was leaving she seen angel who was leaving his girlfriends apartment after hitting it? kinda all the same yet differnt

[Osiris]

I think scratch and angel hit it...maybe he wasn't very good or she was lacking in some area. maybe angel still owes her money? what if datu hit it and when scratch was leaving she seen angel who was leaving his girlfriends apartment after hitting it? kinda all the same yet differnt

Ouch.

[rottenash]

I would have been inclined to consider Saul being connected to Scratch as he's the only known resident to have done time. It's possible she'd seen Saul and Angel together at some point and remembered him.

This is seems like a very good explaination

[Osiris]

This is seems like a very good explaination

I just hate to think of Saul as a traitor, considering all that he has risked for the survival of the tower, it seems less likely.

[rottenash]

Same but i do remember Scratch saying she had not heard from there last informant in some time. Possible a change in heart...enter Pippin.

[Don Man]

I agree but my reason for thinking this is because Angel can hotwire cars and I think that he learned this from scratch also when they meet in chapter 8 Scratch recongizes him

[DancingUndertheGypsyMoon]

Ok, so after the new information in the last episode, 29.3 I would have to say that they are part of a mob type family. I don't know anything about gangs, but I would assume they would work differently than this "family" that scratch spoke about. Obviously his father was heavily involved, and the way she would pick on him my calling him "blonde boy" makes me want to say that they were childhood friends, but if that were the case then she would have recognized him sooner and she said she almost didn't recognize him. What I would like is for there to have been a romantic "thing" between Angel and scratch in the past (like him getting her preggers) and thats why she isn't letting anything happen to lizzie, and (Partially) explains angel enlisting in the military. However, I don't think she would have shot him if that was the case.

[Osiris]

Ok, so after the new information in the last episode, 29.3 I would have to say that they are part of a mob type family. I don't know anything about gangs, but I would assume they would work differently than this "family" that scratch spoke about. Obviously his father was heavily involved, and the way she would pick on him my calling him "blonde boy" makes me want to say that they were childhood friends, but if that were the case then she would have recognized him sooner and she said she almost didn't recognize him. What I would like is for there to have been a romantic "thing" between Angel and scratch in the past (like him getting her preggers) and thats why she isn't letting anything happen to lizzie, and (Partially) explains angel enlisting in the military. However, I don't think she would have shot him if that was the case.

I like the way your brain is travelling there... you should check out the Fan Fic section and read "One Night In Santa Monica".

[Winston]

Ok, so after the new information in the last episode, 29.3 I would have to say that they are part of a mob type family...

Scratch says that Angel has a "birthright" and that he is carrying the same ring as herself and Durai which means they all were likely members of the same gang/crime syndicate. Angel knew how to hot-wire cars so his criminal past likely has something to do with auto theft. A birthright isn't usually something that happens in Organized crime families. The kids have to be "made" just like any other soldier and I don't know how common it would be for gang/"family" members to wear rings signifying membership. That's an advertisement to the cops that this prisoner might have info that can bring down the organization.


However, I don't think she would have shot him if that was the case.

Shooting Angel and sparing him the slow, painful death the doctor promised was probably the least cruel thing Scratch has done :) Believe it or not, it's a sign of respect, like Tesio at the end of The Godfather as opposed to Carlo. Saying all of that...Angel clearly had knowledge of the "Mallers" but didn't share that information because he was to unwilling to let others know about his involvement. Scratch was right about one thing, if Angel hadn't just tossed the ring already, it means it still had value to him. It is an interesting side plot...

[Alizée]

I'm so down with the organized crime theory. That was the only thing I could think of when listening to it.

[Alizée]

I like the way your brain is travelling there... you should check out the Fan Fic section and read "One Night In Santa Monica".
I looked for it and I can't find it. Maybe I'm navigating the fanfic area improperly? Or was it taken down?