Who's The Rat v2.0

[nikvoodoo]

Time to hold a re-vote on Who's the Rat that betrayed the Tower to the Mallers at the end of Season 1. If you want to read through every argument that has ever been held about this topic, feel free to read through "Who's the Rat v1.0" (http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?51-Who-s-The-Rat) and if you want some pretty good analysis from our very own Ra1th, check out The Tower-Gate blog post (http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/content.php?152-Tower-gate)on this subject.

[NoReality95]

I say Tommy was, but not in the sense he did it on purpose, let me lay it down: You're a young boy, the only kid alone in a tower and your aunt is a huge bitch who never listens to you. What if by chance you begin to play with the radio and hear voices on the other end, the people begin to talk to you and they are (acting) nicely to you and talking to you, even giving you advice and making you feel better. You begin to tell them about what's been going on with your life and these new cameras you made (Durai couldn't have known where all of them were) soon you're alone because the adults are alone and you tell the person on the other end about this, soon you are caught and lie and say you never touched the radio and talked to them. That's why I think Tommy was an unintentional rat.

[Wicked Sid]

Unlike NoReality's scholarly approach to their conclusion. I prefer to use a different method, a rather idiotic model.

It Was Saul Dammit! I will stand resolute in my beliefs!

[Hellbringer]

I so want Bill to be the rat, but with this poll laying the option of "Unknown Tower Occupant" I finally get a chance to pick that.

[Th3_T3ch]

Now for my fun. It was Kalani. I believe him to be a maller. His story about Hawaii doesn't add up. He was near LAX, clearly Maller turf, and he was one of the only people that was sober at the party. He didn't show up to help. He was only at the tower for two days before the attack and, in conclusion, he had the time to do it.
IT WAS KALANI!

[yarri]

Unlike NoReality's scholarly approach to their conclusion. I prefer to use a different method, a rather idiotic model.

It Was Saul Dammit! I will stand resolute in my beliefs!

Take it back SID take it back!!!! :)

[Mugwump]

The rat is Saul. I have thought this for a long time now for a number of reasons. He has spent time in jail, maybe he owed somebody from the mallers that may have helped him when he was in jail. Also, after he was chased by the mallers and got back to the tower, why did he leave his bike outside the tower? He would have known they would have seen him on it and the sensible thing to do would be to dump it away from the tower or bring it into the parking garage. Leaving it outside would give away which tower they were actually in.

[Beaumont]

Now for my fun. It was Kalani. I believe him to be a maller. His story about Hawaii doesn't add up. He was near LAX, clearly Maller turf, and he was one of the only people that was sober at the party. He didn't show up to help. He was only at the tower for two days before the attack and, in conclusion, he had the time to do it.
IT WAS KALANI!
That makes a lot of sense and could be the most likely conclusion but there is always the possibility of it being a red herring. I have a feeling the person will end up being some one surprising and unexpected.

[Rock Daddy]

I still think it's Kelly, although it's been declared unlikely by some. I think that she may have defended someone important from the prison or had a close tie with one of the mallers. And for a while she was aiding a mutiny. Who knows what was conspired between the tenants in the background. She has redeemed herself in recent episodes, but that doesn't mean she didn't make a mistake back when she was miss thang. The wonderful thing is that Kc has given damn near everybody a motive to keep us guessing.

[mem]

I was certain it was kelly. Now I am not so sure therefore i shall point my finger at Michael Swann !!!! Who better to tell people things than the narrator.

[nikvoodoo]

I was certain it was kelly. Now I am not so sure therefore i shall point my finger at Michael Swann !!!! Who better to tell people things than the narrator.

How "Into the Woods" of you. I realize nearly no one will get that reference, but I'm still making it.

[Kc]

I think it's Nick. He was totally feeding information to the army of squirrels that ran the dog brigade that overthrew Mr. Whisker's Militia, originally made to overthrow the Legion of Lady.

[mem]

I think it's Nick. He was totally feeding information to the army of squirrels that ran the dog brigade that overthrew Mr. Whisker's Militia, originally made to overthrow the Legion of Lady.

very nicely done there sir

[kafu288]

Kelly was there when they originally talked to the Mallers in the lobby (well up in the guard room). Burt says that they heard everything. If you remember Michael had just been having a go at Kelly about falling asleep while on guard duty and maybe Kelly thought she'd be better off with them in the tower. Then when she realised what was going on she regretted it. It would explain why she was so upset about Tommy's death. It wouldn't have happened if they hadn't had to call the Zombies to chase off the mallers. Its probably the same reason she takes fault for Saul's injury. This was right when Kelly started to change her attitude towards everyone. I think she got in touch with the mallers and told them what was happening in the tower, hoping that they would come in and change the leadership situation. There was probably some sort of deal that would have lead to protection for her, or at least she thought so.

The only other one who has a real reason is Datu. He would have had a reason to as he blames Michael and the others for being captured and what happened at the arena as much as the Zombies, and he clearly had given up fighting and was probably quite suicidal. Remember he got the other survivors to stop fighting and instead start praying. He also would have known that Bill was in the top of the tower and maybe he helped Bill move the stuff up, because I doubt Bill could move it all by himself. Maybe Datu figured that if Michael and co couldn't fight back they would die for sure and he would a) get ultimate revenge and b) get to join Samantha.

Also, its not Angel. The only reason it would be Angel is that Scratch said she recognised Angel and knew his name but if you go back and re-listen to the episode where Scratch and Latch come back to the tower, Michael tells Angel off and says his name right in front of Scratch. Scratch and Latch were also trying to size them up and telling ANgel would be another way to get that information.

[MrScott101]

I still think it's Kalani, main point already said with him at the party. I don't think he even knows how to fly a plane. I think that was just his way of saying that was all he knew so he'd be useless for any other job which would open him up for open spying on everyone. Collecting information and such.

[HardKor]

Kelly was there when they originally talked to the Mallers in the lobby (well up in the guard room). Burt says that they heard everything. If you remember Michael had just been having a go at Kelly about falling asleep while on guard duty and maybe Kelly thought she'd be better off with them in the tower. Then when she realised what was going on she regretted it. It would explain why she was so upset about Tommy's death. It wouldn't have happened if they hadn't had to call the Zombies to chase off the mallers. Its probably the same reason she takes fault for Saul's injury. This was right when Kelly started to change her attitude towards everyone. I think she got in touch with the mallers and told them what was happening in the tower, hoping that they would come in and change the leadership situation. There was probably some sort of deal that would have lead to protection for her, or at least she thought so.

I gotta agree wholeheartedly with this. That's why I still think its Kelly.
As for the Kalani theories, I guess he would have technically had time to contact the Mallers, but I guess I just imagine that the mole had more of an extended series of conversations instead of just the one or two Kalani would have been capable of based on his short time in the Tower.


Also, its not Angel. The only reason it would be Angel is that Scratch said she recognised Angel and knew his name but if you go back and re-listen to the episode where Scratch and Latch come back to the tower, Michael tells Angel off and says his name right in front of Scratch. Scratch and Latch were also trying to size them up and telling ANgel would be another way to get that information.

While I do think Angel has some sort of connection to the Mallers, I agree he's not the rat. His first instinct when Latch and Scratch showed up was to shoot them first and ask questions later, if I'm not mistaken. So whatever connection he may have had with them, I'm guessing it wasn't good.

[ObamaCat]

I think Angel's mysterious past with Scratch and possibly Latch can be used as points in a strong argument that he is the rat. Now before you tear me apart Ra1th, I'm still not 100% it's Angel, but as of now that's my best guess.

[StepLaugh]

Also guys, the question is, Do you think we'll find out who the rat is by the end of this season?

[kafu288]

Depends on whether the confrontation between Mallers and Towers happens in this season or next season. Could be early next season but I think this season will end with the rat betraying the tower in the middle of the battle. Maybe some sort of mexican stand off between Michael and Durai and then the rat draws his gun on Michael.

[VeritableHero]

Also guys, the question is, Do you think we'll find out who the rat is by the end of this season?Definitely. I imagine we'll hear it this chapter through Lizzy even if the Tower doesn't find out until later.

[MrScott101]

I'm ready to change my vote, as posted in chapter 20 part 3 I now think it's Steven!! He got her kicked out and shortly there after she was picked up by the mallers. Only problem with that is she wasn't on their list!

[mythicgr66]

For me it was most likely kelly as she is kelly just listen to her until the attack, all she did was complained and wanted things done her way, after voting i saw a few people voted for tommy, that seems a bit weird as tommy created the secrurity camera's to help protect the tower, some people may say that the mallers foud the camera's with realative ease, ok the cameras weren't hidden and the whole place was sourounded.

[Guts Malone]

Saul. He was prison and could of been contacted threw the prison system, to be swayed. He did have a big hate on the Mallers after he heard they took Lizzy.

[Arkum]

I'm not 100% sure who the rat is, but I do 100% think that it wasn't Bill who took the ammo. It was just hidden there as the best place to hide it or to set him up.

[Onslaught]

Went for Riley this time, just a feeling...

[Onslaught]

Do you think that the rat in the tower is the same person that fired at the mallers first? Or is it possible that its two different people?

[TKid]

I have a theory on this:
like when Michael was chased into the steam by a behemoth and never heard how on earth he survived that encounter, maybe the rat of the tower may not be revealed...
that or it is just some extra character like Steven who wanted lizzie out

[GChild78]

I'm not 100% sure who the rat is, but I do 100% think that it wasn't Bill who took the ammo. It was just hidden there as the best place to hide it or to set him up.

Back in the day, when I thought Pegs was the traitor, I had the same idea. A lot of things did not add up. For example, how did Bill find out about the party? The party was on the fifth floor, right? Bill lived on...the fourteenth? There's no way he could have heard the music or any other type of commotion. He never left his room so I don't think that on this particular day he said, "I wonder what they are doing downstairs?" Nope, I think the traitor told him about it. I also thought that he was in cahoots with the rat. Why? Again, this guy never left his room. There was no way for him to know every detail of what was going on. Let alone get some time alone in the guard room where the radio was.

But...the more I thought about it...the more it didn't make sense to me...so I squashed it.

To this day I'm not 100% on who the rat is, but I do think Bill was set up. I had changed my vote from Pegs to Lizzy, but Nik, Ra1th, Sid and Zombiehead made me see the error of my ways...

What I am 100% on is that it was not this Steven guy. Does he deserve to be exiled? Yes. Should he be fed to the zombies? Of course. Is anyone going to miss him? HA!

[nikvoodoo]

To this day I'm not 100% on who the rat is, but I do think Bill was set up. I had changed my vote from Pegs to Lizzy, but Nik, Ra1th, Sid and Zombiehead made me see the error of my ways...


yeah.....we have a nasty habit of doing that ;)

[Ra1th]

Oh man that must have been helluva tag team

[Arkum]

Plus if he stole the ammo, common sense tells me he would have at least brought some down to defend his Tower with.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Remember, anyone involved in the Stadium is in the clear since all the ammo was gone when they came back. Who ever did it took advantage of all the soldiers and leaders being gone. That means Michael, Angel, Saul, Bert, Riley, Datu, and yes Haters, Kalani are out of the question. Assuming the Rat acted alone of course. Also from her treatment in the latest chapter, Lizzy is in the clear.

Also there is something else to consider, we don't hear from Durai after the shot, and its likely the shot is from the Rat. My theory is that the Rat is in league with Scratch, not the mallers. The plan was to attack the tower, the rat makes sure to kill Durai, Scratch takes power and the tower. Can't remember if there is anyone that removes from the pool that wasn't around Micheal and the gang when that shot was fired(Tommy I think). But taking a shot in the dark from atop the tower isn't an easy feat. Takes some points away from Kelly, but really only adds them to maybe Lizzy and we know thats no longer the case.

And the Party was a little too convenient. If someone wants to go back and see who was pushing for a party, or for pushing farther on the boose to further weaken the tower's defenders that may also provide some support.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

The party was the result of a majority consensus if i'm correct. Even Mike was up for it even with Burt's possible "I told you so" hanging over his head.
I still believe the traitor had to have multiple in-depth conversations in order to pass on such details on the tower and each personality involved and they were on it the watch before the attack or RIGHT before they showed up at the door.

[nikvoodoo]

Remember, anyone involved in the Stadium....

I edited your post but I'm mobile so I couldn't put the reason. You said Dubai like the city. Durai is the name of the maller leader

Crowbar: would it really take a long time to tell the mallers the tower is low on ammo and who the major players are? Anyone else think its possible that the rat could have communicated via signals? After all, the mallers know where the tower is. There could easily be communication done with lights on and off in a bedroom.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Actually Sir Nik,
I think it would take a good min to pass on the quality of information that was passed on. I've said it before, but it could have been over one LONG watch or spread out over several.

correct me on this but the location of the cameras was known, ammo/weapons count, food &Water status and various personality traits were known and it didn't seem as though the information was newly passed on. They seemed very intimate, very comfortable with the quality of information they had. I'm also assuming they had a good head count as well.

But lets go with this theory then... since the CB was left on channel 18, then the Rat was talking to Durai and Scratch during their drive up and the information was written down or memorized/retained "In the moment." Maybe Dura is one of those instant recall type cats... maybe.

[Arkum]

Did they say who was on watch before Tommy?

[nikvoodoo]

Did they say who was on watch before Tommy?

No they did not. We go straight from the vote, to the party. The only thing mentioned was the party supply run and then the set up of the party floor

[Adventureless_Hero]

With some information provided in the latest episode, 20-3, I have a new theory. I believe there may actually be more than 1 mole, or the mallers intend to have more than 1 mole. Scratch says that she has to go drop Pippin off. I'm just reaching but I believe Pippin may be a member of the Tower that we haven't met yet. Pippin could be someone from the Mallers group that was accepted in to the tower as just another survivor. Or it could be that Pippin intends to infiltrate the Tower under the guise of a lone survivor.

Tard' asks "What about the other one?" To which Scratch says, "We still have her." Which could possibly refer to a third female mole. Though I'm not sure how the Mallers could "still have her" without anyone from the Tower noticing someone is gone. Tard' goes on to say "No, the one thats already there. No response?" Scratch answers "No, not for a while." I am hoping this is confirmation of my theory that Kelly was once a mole for the Mallers but has since converted over to the Tower's side. It's a stretch, I know.

[Arkum]

"We still ahve her" could mean she is still on their side. Sort of a coded way of speaking. Like you said, like she hasn't turned to the other side yet.

[nikvoodoo]

It could also be that the Mallers are staking out a place and the one who was already there that they haven't heard from in a while was their scout and they got taken out by the zombies.

[Adventureless_Hero]

"We still ahve her" could mean she is still on their side. Sort of a coded way of speaking. Like you said, like she hasn't turned to the other side yet.

Oh, so perhaps Kells is still on thier side, despite being as bad ass as she is now. So maybe when Tard asked about "the one already there" he meant somebody originally at the Tower. Somone like Bill! So maybe Bill, Kelly, and now Pippin are moles to the Tower!

Wow, it seems like a real stretch, but some bits of the information make sense. Hell, all this theorizing hurts knowing that the show won't confirm or deny anything for a while.

[Arkum]

This long break is only gonna lead to me coming up with more and more hairbrain theories.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

This long break is only gonna lead to me coming up with more and more hairbrain theories.

I have now passed the torch. Take it and run.. run far!

[Arkum]

What if Lizzie's "oh, no" was because the Mallers have the reanimated zombie version of her boyfriend. He's their new "pet".

[Onslaught]

I'm not 100% sure who the rat is, but I do 100% think that it wasn't Bill who took the ammo. It was just hidden there as the best place to hide it or to set him up.
Its possible, but the only other person with the key was Datu and I don't think he would have done that. And actually Bill was out for a while, so someone could have easily found the key and moved all of the stuff while the main characters at the tower were gone. So its a possibility that someone did frame Bill, but then why would he have apologized. Alot of people on another thread argued he apologized for taking the guns. But if he didn't take the guns he would have no other reason to apologize then if he was the rat.

[Zombiehead]

But if he didn't take the guns he would have no other reason to apologize then if he was the rat. He stole food.


This long break is only gonna lead to me coming up with more and more hairbrain theories.I know what you mean. Sooner or later I'm going to lose my mind and start smearing a bunch of unfounded theories all over this board. Might get messy.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I'm going to lock this in as my final answer so that if I stray someone can whack me over the head with a shovel...or crowbar. Okay, so I strongly feel that at one time Kelly was the main rat, the one who hopped on the CB and gave all the information away to the Mallers. She was quite drunk at the party which throws me off a bit, but for the most part I feel she called the pricks just before Tommy took up his shift. Being a lawyer I feel she may have known some of these criminals at Eastern Bay. I do believe that Bill was 100% responsible for hiding the guns. If Kelly had any hand in it, say for the purpose of hoarding it for the Mallers arrival, she would have quickly revealed the cache's location the moment Tommy died and the building set on fire. Her nephew's death was her turning point. She stoicly watched over Saul while the people she had once hated fought not for their own survival but for the good of the whole tower.

Kelly, I love you but my vote went to you. You are a rat, but not the kind that abandons a sinking ship.

[GChild78]

It was this kind of thinking that made me almost certain that Pegs was the traitor. Some of the conversation during the party between her and Bill was fishy. For example, when he asks for her name...

[nikvoodoo]

The simple reason why Bill would know who Pegs was: She was in charge of the garden hence in charge of his cucumbers. <br />
<br />
The radio Saul was using was set to 23, not 18. So even if they had found the...

[GChild78]

Right, Nik...which is why I no longer believe she's the rat. <br />
<br />
What I meant with the radio was that maybe they used that channel to contact the tower before they showed up. 23 was the channel they...

[nikvoodoo]

Right, Nik...which is why I no longer believe she's the rat.

What I meant with the radio was that maybe they used that channel to contact the tower before they showed up. 23 was the channel they had agreed to use with Saul. There was no reason for them to use other channels since they had just acquired the radio. 18 was suggested by the mallers...obviously the channel used by the rat. Or maybe suggested so no one would suspect the existence of a traitor.

Missed your overall points! Sorry. I need to realize when my eyes are crossing, I should probably stop posting.

[Onslaught]

He stole food.
Dammit, your right I hate being proved wrong. Need to go through WA another time.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I have an insane theory that just popped in my head while re-re-re-re-relistening to 2-2. Angel's gun jammed despite Michael having "fixed it". Then when they are having dinner Peggs (or Lizzie, I'm not quite sure) hears and sees something. Later we find out its is Mr. Whiskers the cat. But what if it's not just the cat? What if they have a Roach rather than a mole? It's crazy but what if there is an unknown survivor who is on the same insanity wavelength as Skittles living inside the tower walls? An escaped mental patient who has done time in Eastern Bay but was later transfered to the mental hospital. Then he recognized Angel from years back when the Leuitennant was hot wiring cars and paling around with Scratch and said, "I don't like that blonde dude so I'm going to disable his gun."
He could also be responsible for hoarding the food (Bill may have just been saying, "Sorry" for being a dick or sorry for dying).

Yes, that is the answer for sure. I knew it all along!

(nah, I'm just screwing around, but I thought it was an interesting possibility, though waaaaay far fetched)

[IAmBabs]

New person here :)

I have a theory for everyone on the list for who can be the rat, but here are my three favorites:

Angel: He is desperate to be the leader for everyone. He is fresh out of officer school and Michael either constantly assumes command or people just naturally follow him. No one ever thinks to ask Angel for his input, despite him being higher ranked than Michael. I think at one point he may have contacted the Mallers and offered some space in The Tower in exchange for a leadership role among them.

Saul: Very unlikely, I know. In the beginning he expressed how ready he was to "take care of my Sarge" and side with Michael with everything. Not much has changed since he and Lizzy became involved. I think for the sake of making life easier for everyone and eliminating one threat, he would have spoken with some of the Mallers, possibly helping them out when they got attacked when he was spying. Something about him making it back to the Tower unscathed and Scratch saying days later that they followed him, despite being under attack at the time doesn't sit well with me.

Pegs: She is always there for Michael and desperate for affection from him. I think her guilt over Latch's death might not only be from her killing him, but from her bringing them to the Tower to end up being killed. We also know she isn't a fan of violence, and probably thought having ex-cons as protection or a 'flesh barrier' between her people and the zombies may have been a good idea until the fighting started.

I agree with those that think there was more than one rat, with Kelly being one. How many times has she made her views about the Tower and her dislike for the soldiers known? She even had a group at one point (almost) ready to abandon the Tower when they had a brief power problem.

Now I will sit here and wait for the barrage of people picking apart my theories :)

[Anarchist Bunny]

I think the theory about Kelly is a the most solid one. While the party was more of Pegs idea, Kelly wasn't interested in any suggestion about the party except just to break out the boose.

However my theory about the deal being made with Scratch to take out Durai is dead in the water. After whoever it is that fired the first shots from the tower, Durai talks over the CB radio after the last shot and does not sound like he is in any duress.

[yarri]

I say Tommy was, but not in the sense he did it on purpose, let me lay it down: You're a young boy, the only kid alone in a tower and your aunt is a huge bitch who never listens to you. What if by chance you begin to play with the radio and hear voices on the other end, the people begin to talk to you and they are (acting) nicely to you and talking to you, even giving you advice and making you feel better. You begin to tell them about what's been going on with your life and these new cameras you made (Durai couldn't have known where all of them were) soon you're alone because the adults are alone and you tell the person on the other end about this, soon you are caught and lie and say you never touched the radio and talked to them. That's why I think Tommy was an unintentional rat.

I chose Tommy as well.. *sticks tongue out at Ra1th*.. See SEE I am not crazy! My theory was he might have done it cause of what was going on. He was a kid without direction and kids make mistakes.

[yarri]

Unlike NoReality's scholarly approach to their conclusion. I prefer to use a different method, a rather idiotic model.

It Was Saul Dammit! I will stand resolute in my beliefs!


Take it back Sid! Take it back! LOL We both know Saul was to busy practicing procreation with Lizzy to be on the radio~

[Zombiehead]

I chose Tommy as well.. *sticks tongue out at Ra1th*.. See SEE I am not crazy! My theory was he might have done it cause of what was going on. He was a kid without direction and kids make mistakes.Interesting theory. He's a smart kid but still could be fooled. Aside from having to deal with Kelly everyone was basically nice to him. Datu and Burt were training him all the time and the rest were supportive. It's inconclusive.

[yarri]

Interesting theory. He's a smart kid but still could be fooled. Aside from having to deal with Kelly everyone was basically nice to him. Datu and Burt were training him all the time and the rest were supportive. It's inconclusive.
Tommy is a very good boy but he is still a boy and boys make mistakes. aunt Kelly sucked as emotional support for him. yes everyone treated him ok but he was also subjected to more stress then a child of 15 should or would be able to deal with.

[Ra1th]

Like i said originally, you bring up a good argument for tommy, but I personally dont think the traitor will be a dead person, just kills the suspense, plus the traitor could come in handy in the upcoming maller segments.

that being said I can't really disprove tommy either so yeah he's a suspect as well I guess, there's no way to know who it is past a certain degree.

[PaulChambers94]

NJHellfire makes a great point about Kalani. I think I agree with that. Who knows, Kalani's sudden appearance*and the attack on The Tower could be a complete coincidence. But I do think it is all a little suspicious.

[COsurvivor]

what was the name of that guy that wanted to take over before Michale and the gang came back? I think he should be added to the list now that I listened to Season 2/.

[nikvoodoo]

what was the name of that guy that wanted to take over before Michale and the gang came back? I think he should be added to the list now that I listened to Season 2/.

He is on the list. Steven is the guys name

[COsurvivor]

He is on the list. Steven is the guys name

I would think that maybe he should be on the list... What do the rest of you think?

[nikvoodoo]

Steven is the guy who tried to revolt. He is on the list as I just said

[COsurvivor]

bottom of the list, i see...

[Canadianfan]

I'm thinking it's Steven. He insisted that Lizzy "pay" for falling asleep, he also tried to get the rest of the tower to go against Burt - while trying to set himself up as the next leader.

[kingisback]

I dont think its Steven because such a minor character would be such a let down. Plus the rat would have to have some connection to the mallers and you dont even hear of this character till after the war

[COsurvivor]

The votes go with what we feel "it should be" not who it is...

Kelly is a bitchy character and a lawyer, so she is an easy target.

Kalani is a Brown Noser and we all hate that type of person in RL anyway. So he is there...

"Unknown" - I assume, people voted the "Unknown" resident as they did not remember the mans name or this thread was started before Chapter 20.

[nikvoodoo]

"Unknown" - I assume, people voted the "Unknown" resident as they did not remember the mans name or this thread was started before Chapter 20.

This thread was started after the conclusion of chapter 20. Everyone who voted should in theory have known who Steven was.

Steven may be considered a minor character however if he's revealed to be the rat, I betcha there will be some revelation/back story told explaining what exactly is going on and why he's the rat. That being said, I still don't think Steven is it.

[COsurvivor]

Who knows, but you realize we only introduced to Kelly and Timmy for the "New Arrivals"?

So who knows what and who they let in... Not like they can do a background check on anyone.

[justice]

i think it was kelly because her and tommy were related and when they asked tommy if anyone had touched the radio maybe he was lying for kelly his aunt and after tommy was dead she felt guilty

[WestonWisdom]

Without a doubt, it's Angel, heres why:

He had the time, he was late to the party, the radio was set to the correct channel already,it's entirely possible he used the Tommy-Burt switchover as a chance to send the message, either that or he may have been on duty earlier, and nobody would have been around to check up on him because they were preparing for the party, so Angel would have been all alone to send the message.

Angel-Scratch appear to have link, I think Angel may have been involved in a minor(but high profile) crime, which led to Scratch and Angel becoming either involved in a romantic way or just became associates. This would also explain why Datu recognised him in Chapter 1, perhaps he was on T.V due to his crime?

He had a motive, always a great believer in the rank system(Ex. Can't we just wait for the commander?), Angel is frustrated at not being respected(Mentioned in a conversation between him and Saul) and therefore decided to do something about it, Call the maulers.

I also want to mention a few things that I feel relieve Kelly and Datu of guilt.

Kelly, despite being a massive bitch(Read:Wanting to survive more than make friends) in the earlier chapters, Wouldn't have risked Tommy's and her's life in the hands of convicts, even if the supposed Lawyer-Convict connection existed.

Datu, everybody loves Datu, always willing to help, always cheerful, until Purgatory, where the woman he loves is torn to shreds, after that, he changes, miserable, defeatist and physically incapable(for a few chapters). Datu's change of mood comes too late game for him to be the Rat, besides, he could barely get out of bed during the events of Ch.11 and 12, he wouldn't have been put on guard duty, so somebody would have seen him make the call.

[Wicked Sid]

Datu recognized him due to his girlfriend living in the apartment building where he worked and lived.
Also, if Scratch and Angel had been romantically involved I'm pretty sure they'd better recognize each other. Additionally, why would Angel contact the Mallers to regain the military hierarchy?

[WestonWisdom]

Datu recognized him due to his girlfriend living in the apartment building where he worked and lived.
Also, if Scratch and Angel had been romantically involved I'm pretty sure they'd better recognize each other. Additionally, why would Angel contact the Mallers to regain the military hierarchy?

If that was the case, angel wouldn't have corrected him right after Datu said he recognised him.

I didn't mean it to come across as Angel contacted the mallers to regain the hierarchy, the point I am trying to make is that a combination of frustration and previous involvement with Scratch led to him contacting the Mallers.

[Ra1th]

Without a doubt, it's Angel, heres why:

He had the time, he was late to the party, the radio was set to the correct channel already,it's entirely possible he used the Tommy-Burt switchover as a chance to send the message, either that or he may have been on duty earlier, and nobody would have been around to check up on him because they were preparing for the party, so Angel would have been all alone to send the message.

Angel-Scratch appear to have link, I think Angel may have been involved in a minor(but high profile) crime, which led to Scratch and Angel becoming either involved in a romantic way or just became associates. This would also explain why Datu recognised him in Chapter 1, perhaps he was on T.V due to his crime?

He had a motive, always a great believer in the rank system(Ex. Can't we just wait for the commander?), Angel is frustrated at not being respected(Mentioned in a conversation between him and Saul) and therefore decided to do something about it, Call the maulers.

.


Here’s where you’re dead wrong. Angel lacks motive. Angel does believe in the rank system, AS DOES EVERYONE ELSE IN THE MILITARY. At the time Angel firmly believed that the situation was not as dire as Michael and saul made it out to be so he figured there was no harm in waiting for the commander. After the tower had been established and by chapter 5, Angel had accepted Michael as his commander, and leader of the tower. He had also taken the second in command position. How does calling the mallers help him take command? If the mallers came in he’d lose his position as it is, as well as his FRIENDS, he was best friends with Michael and saul by the time the war had come about.

As to his whereabouts during the party. First he was drinking, then he went to dance with Riley and then he was off puking because he drank too much, after the alarm had been tripped he ran down to the guard room.

Connection with Scratch? It’s too big a jump to even assume that there is a romantic connection between the two. Maybe they’d met once in a past life, but nothing more than that can be PROVED. Not without a LOT more evidence. All we know is that Scratch feels as though she remembers Angel, and Angel might remember scratch. Its highly unlikely they had a romantic relationship because Scratch and Angel would have recognized each other immediately. It wouldn’t have been the reaction that actually occurred which is. Scratch “you seem familiar” Angel “I don’t know what your talking about”.

Also you cant even prove that angel had been involved in a crime at all. All that we know is that there POSSIBLY a link between scratch and angel. THAT’S IT. Nothing more, nothing less. Any thing based on this link is pure speculation.

The reason datu knew angel when they first came to the tower? Because his girlfriend cindy lived at the tower, he used to visit her, Datu had seen him. End of story

And here’s the usual excerpt I send whenever anyone accuses angel of being the rat.

Angel Tunudo -

Angel is another intelligent character capable enough to be the mole. However it is unlikely that Angel was behind it. At the time, Angel was Michael’s second in command. He was behind the tactical aspects of the missions, and the overall well being of the tower. He was making headway with Riley, maybe it would lead to a relationship. He was best friends with Saul and Michael. Basically, life was good for Angel. I have heard theories that maybe Angel wanted Michael’s spot as top dog of the tower, there are two problem s with this theory. First of all, calling the Mallers does not help him get that spot. If the Mallers took over the tower, then it is far more likely that he’d lose his position as second in command, if his friends found out, he’d lose them too. Second, there is absolutely no evidence that Angel wanted command, he attempted to take power after Michael quit after the war, but quickly handed power over to Burt. Angel looks up to Michael, and often turns to him for judgment and advice, he wouldn’t attempt to usurp power.

Chance of Angel being the traitor: Next to 0

[Ra1th]

If that was the case, angel wouldn't have corrected him right after Datu said he recognised him.

I didn't mean it to come across as Angel contacted the mallers to regain the hierarchy, the point I am trying to make is that a combination of frustration and previous involvement with Scratch led to him contacting the Mallers.

It's an assumption, and its also widely accepted as the reason Datu recognized him. There is no other evidence for any other theory as to why Datu recognized him.

Angel was no longer frustrated with the chain of command, by about chapter 5 or 6. By then he'd accepted his role as second in command, and Michael as leader of the tower. You'd be hard pressed to find any evidence of him showing frustration with the chain of command after chapter 5

[WestonWisdom]

It's an assumption, and its also widely accepted as the reason Datu recognized him. There is no other evidence for any other theory as to why Datu recognized him.

Angel was no longer frustrated with the chain of command, by about chapter 5 or 6. By then he'd accepted his role as second in command, and Michael as leader of the tower. You'd be hard pressed to find any evidence of him showing frustration with the chain of command after chapter 5

Shrugging it off once, a mistake, shrugging it off twice, with Datu and Scratch,He is trying to avoid recognition, even if he isn't the rat, Angel has a secret.

[Ra1th]

Shrugging it off once, a mistake, shrugging it off twice, with Datu and Scratch,He is trying to avoid recognition, even if he isn't the rat, Angel has a secret.

Then you can make the assumption that he has a secret! that's acceptable, NOT that he's the rat!

[WestonWisdom]

Here’s where you’re dead wrong. Angel lacks motive. Angel does believe in the rank system, AS DOES EVERYONE ELSE IN THE MILITARY. At the time Angel firmly believed that the situation was not as dire as Michael and saul made it out to be so he figured there was no harm in waiting for the commander. After the tower had been established and by chapter 5, Angel had accepted Michael as his commander, and leader of the tower. He had also taken the second in command position. How does calling the mallers help him take command? If the mallers came in he’d lose his position as it is, as well as his FRIENDS, he was best friends with Michael and saul by the time the war had come about.

As to his whereabouts during the party. First he was drinking, then he went to dance with Riley and then he was off puking because he drank too much, after the alarm had been tripped he ran down to the guard room.

Connection with Scratch? It’s too big a jump to even assume that there is a romantic connection between the two. Maybe they’d met once in a past life, but nothing more than that can be PROVED. Not without a LOT more evidence. All we know is that Scratch feels as though she remembers Angel, and Angel might remember scratch. Its highly unlikely they had a romantic relationship because Scratch and Angel would have recognized each other immediately. It wouldn’t have been the reaction that actually occurred which is. Scratch “you seem familiar” Angel “I don’t know what your talking about”.

Also you cant even prove that angel had been involved in a crime at all. All that we know is that there POSSIBLY a link between scratch and angel. THAT’S IT. Nothing more, nothing less. Any thing based on this link is pure speculation.

The reason datu knew angel when they first came to the tower? Because his girlfriend cindy lived at the tower, he used to visit her, Datu had seen him. End of story

And here’s the usual excerpt I send whenever anyone accuses angel of being the rat.

Angel Tunudo -

Angel is another intelligent character capable enough to be the mole. However it is unlikely that Angel was behind it. At the time, Angel was Michael’s second in command. He was behind the tactical aspects of the missions, and the overall well being of the tower. He was making headway with Riley, maybe it would lead to a relationship. He was best friends with Saul and Michael. Basically, life was good for Angel. I have heard theories that maybe Angel wanted Michael’s spot as top dog of the tower, there are two problem s with this theory. First of all, calling the Mallers does not help him get that spot. If the Mallers took over the tower, then it is far more likely that he’d lose his position as second in command, if his friends found out, he’d lose them too. Second, there is absolutely no evidence that Angel wanted command, he attempted to take power after Michael quit after the war, but quickly handed power over to Burt. Angel looks up to Michael, and often turns to him for judgment and advice, he wouldn’t attempt to usurp power.

Chance of Angel being the traitor: Next to 0

Saying Angel has accepted Michael as the leader of the tower by chapter 5, as late as chapter 20, Angel seems disgruntled at not being considered for the position.

You seem to have missed the point when I mentioned his appearance at the party, he was late to the party, he could have done it while everyone else was at the party.

Perhaps the Scratch-Angel link is too far of a jump, but this is a theory section, also, Angel doesn't want to shout Datu when he first claims to recognise him, but he wants to shoot Scratch as soon as he sees her

[Wicked Sid]

He wanted to be recognized for the position of leader. Its just a sleight to his pride.

[Ra1th]

Saying Angel has accepted Michael as the leader of the tower by chapter 5, as late as chapter 20, Angel seems disgruntled at not being considered for the position. <br />
<br />
You seem to have missed the...

[Crabb90]

I could see Kelly, Datu, Kalani, and possibly Burt as the rat. What if the Mallers planted Burt in that bathroom for Saul and Angel to find? Kelly is a more likely candidate than Burt, but it's just a theory. Kelly was a bit of a bitch in the beginning (Tommy's unfortunate mishap kind of changed her) and Datu had the period of pessimism, which tells me that he may have gotten tired things at the Tower and switched sides. Does anyone else think I have a point?

[Ra1th]

I could see Kelly, Datu, Calani, and possibly Burt as the rat. What if the Mallers planted Burt in that bathroom for Saul and Angel to find? Kelly is a more likely candidate than Burt, but it's just a theory.

Its a stretch to assume that Burt was planted in his bathroom for Angel and Saul. At that time they prly didnt even know of the tower's existence. Besides, they had way better opportunities to sneak people into the tower, when the tower had the we're alive sign up and was letting in any survivor they could. Plus burt's story checks out that he was being hunted by a smart one from raydon labs

[Wicked Sid]

Just to give you feedback, why would they plant him there?
How could they have known they'd be at the store within that time frame and that they weren't just stragglers and that they would have a place of residence worthy of taking?

[WestonWisdom]

Michael had stepped down as leader after the war. Burt had taken command, and then burt had given up command. Leadership was changing. Angel wanting a shot at leadership during a a point when a...

[Crabb90]

I believe his name is Michael Cross, not Swan.

[Ra1th]

Your explanation of why Angel disagreed with Datu is just as likely as mine in my opinion, If Angel visited the tower enough to allow Datu to think he recognises him, wouldn't Bill recognise him as well?

Not recognising Datu isn't the only possible reason Angel would deny it at all, that's just speculation, my theory at least has precedent, there are two people who recognise angel and he refutes it two times. Even so, that's enough to say Angel disagrees with people who say they recognise him on a regular basis.

And, wild theory, perhaps Scratch knows/knows something about Angel, and wants to get rid of that problem, whats the best way to get of somebody that threatens your position? Kill them, when the group refuses, perhaps scratch uses the relationship to her advantage.


Bill wouldn’t recognize him because bill was recluse, All bill did was stay in his apartment all day. He didn’t know about anyone in the tower at all. He barely knew datu the maintenance guy, who worked and LIVED at the tower. No reason for him to recognize angel. An apartment which is on the 14th floor of the tower, very different from Cindy who I believe was on the 2nd floor. The chances that they’d run into each other, is very low.

The difference between your theory and mine? The theory that Datu recognizes Angel because angel visited his girlfriend a lot is accepted by almost everyone on the forum. It’s the most likely conclusion that can be drawn given the facts that we have been presented. To suggest that Angel not wanting datu to recognize him is because he’s the traitor is far fetched in comparison. Datu would recognize him, because Datu is out and about doing maintinence work, and he is very familiar with the tower. Datu would be able to notice changes or people other than the tower’s normal inhabitants a lot easier than Angel would. Angel comes to the tower to see his girlfriend, he doesn’t live there, he doesn’t know it all that well. To him, everything there is new to him on visits. He wouldn’t notice a maintenance guy, but to Datu, Angel would be something new and he’d take notice of him.

Neither scratch nor Datu say they recognize him. They say that he seems FAMILIAR. I’ve explained why Datu knows angel. So that cuts out one half of your theory. That leaves scratch. I’ll give you this, there is a mystery surrounding what the connection is between scratch and Angel, but to claim that that one connection makes him the traitor is a giant leap of faith.

[WestonWisdom]

Bill wouldn’t recognize him because bill was recluse, All bill did was stay in his apartment all day. He didn’t know about anyone in the tower at all. He barely knew datu the maintenance guy, who worked and LIVED at the tower. No reason for him to recognize angel. An apartment which is on the 14th floor of the tower, very different from Cindy who I believe was on the 2nd floor. The chances that they’d run into each other, is very low.

The difference between your theory and mine? The theory that Datu recognizes Angel because angel visited his girlfriend a lot is accepted by almost everyone on the forum. It’s the most likely conclusion that can be drawn given the facts that we have been presented. To suggest that Angel not wanting datu to recognize him is because he’s the traitor is far fetched in comparison. Datu would recognize him, because Datu is out and about doing maintinence work, and he is very familiar with the tower. Datu would be able to notice changes or people other than the tower’s normal inhabitants a lot easier than Angel would. Angel comes to the tower to see his girlfriend, he doesn’t live there, he doesn’t know it all that well. To him, everything there is new to him on visits. He wouldn’t notice a maintenance guy, but to Datu, Angel would be something new and he’d take notice of him.

Neither scratch nor Datu say they recognize him. They say that he seems FAMILIAR. I’ve explained why Datu knows angel. So that cuts out one half of your theory. That leaves scratch. I’ll give you this, there is a mystery surrounding what the connection is between scratch and Angel, but to claim that that one connection makes him the traitor is a giant leap of faith.

I believe Bill is only a recluse after the infection, being terrified of people "coming and ripping your fucking face off" changes a person. I also don't believe it's ever mentioned if Bill has a job or not, presuming he doesn't(he owns the building), thats a lot of free time to spend doing other things.

Just because it's accepted by the majority does not mean it is the correct answer(cleverly ignoring occam's razor), the only reason I question the belief that Datu recognises him because Angel visited the tower beforehand is that people say he looks familiar twice, and Angel denies it, twice.

Perhaps we have a different interpretation of the interaction's between Angel and Scratch, wanting to shoot someone just for being there isn't his finest moment, it seemed to me like they had interacted previously, and desperation that people within the tower could learn of this interaction led him to make the suggestion that they "just shoot them"?

I've mentioned several things that could make him the traitor, I don't mean to imply that the only reason he could be the traitor, I'm sorry, but your explanation of Angel being happy within the hierarchy of the tower doesn't really satisfy me.

[Wicked Sid]

You say "could," when in your starting post you clearly stated "without a doubt." Kind of changed your mind, haven't you?

[WestonWisdom]

You say "could," when in your starting post you clearly stated "without a doubt." Kind of changed your mind, haven't you?

Trying to defuse the situation, Angel is the rat, without a doubt, nothing Ra1th has said has dissuaded me at all.

[Ra1th]

I believe Bill is only a recluse after the infection, being terrified of people "coming and ripping your fucking face off" changes a person. I also don't believe it's ever mentioned if Bill has a job or not, presuming he doesn't(he owns the building), thats a lot of free time to spend doing other things.

Just because it's accepted by the majority does not mean it is the correct answer(cleverly ignoring occam's razor), the only reason I question the belief that Datu recognises him because Angel visited the tower beforehand is that people say he looks familiar twice, and Angel denies it, twice.

Perhaps we have a different interpretation of the interaction's between Angel and Scratch, wanting to shoot someone just for being there isn't his finest moment, it seemed to me like they had interacted previously, and desperation that people within the tower could learn of this interaction led him to make the suggestion that they "just shoot them"?

I've mentioned several things that could make him the traitor, I don't mean to imply that the only reason he could be the traitor, I'm sorry, but your explanation of Angel being happy within the hierarchy of the tower doesn't really satisfy me.

He knew who Scratch and latch were and that they were mallers. Its not so bad to shoot mallers on site. But yes, I agree with you there is definitely a connection between scratch and Angel.

Yes the majority can be wrong, but up until now, this hasn’t been an issue, and it was mostly because of occam’s razor. I’m sure if you ask Kc the question, he’d give you an answer. He’s usually really good about letting us know when we’re debating something that has no value.

Even if Bill wasn’t a recluse before the zombie apocalypse. The chances that Angel and Bill would have run into each other are really low. Think about it Bill lives on the 14th floor of the tower. The majority of people use the elevator. Especially If they had to go to the 14th floor. We know for a fact that Bill didn’t really keep a eye on the tower and its residence. So he wouldn’t be wandering about the random corridors of the building, on floors that werent his own. The only time they would have run into each other is at the elevator. Its unlikely that they ran into each other.

Go over the things that make him a traitor again?
You stated that Datu recognized him, and that Angel didn’t recognize datu
That Bill didn’t recognize him, when datu did
And that there is an unknown connection between Scratch and Angel
And that Angel wanted command from Michael.

Am I missing anything?

[WestonWisdom]

I think either you are misunderstanding or I have misrepresented my point in regards to people recognising him, Firstly, I think multiple people claiming to recognise him is suspicious, Secondly, I...

[wooly]

The "unknown tower occupant" option is getting a lot of love, yet not much discussion. Other than for dramatic reasons, why couldn't it be one of the 12-ish people who don't have a major role?

These are all basically strangers to the tower who came in while the welcome sign was up. One of them could very well have been an Eastern Bay refugee who straggled in as a survivor then later made contact with his old compatriots. Could have run into the Mallers while out scavenging and then later by radio in a continuing arrangement.Given that the listeners are not given much in the way of back stories on these minor characters it could be easily written in this way.

Even if not a former inmate, the background characters could easily share the same motives. They aren't important, just doing the day-to-day grunt work of survival. If this was a caste system, they would be the bottom level. Plenty of excuses for resentment and treachery.

I know it's not as fun as picking on Angel, but it makes more sense to me.

[WestonWisdom]

The "unknown tower occupant" option is getting a lot of love, yet not much discussion. Other than for dramatic reasons, why couldn't it be one of the 12-ish people who don't have a major role?

These are all basically strangers to the tower who came in while the welcome sign was up. One of them could very well have been an Eastern Bay refugee who straggled in as a survivor then later made contact with his old compatriots. Could have run into the Mallers while out scavenging and then later by radio in a continuing arrangement.Given that the listeners are not given much in the way of back stories on these minor characters it could be easily written in this way.

Even if not a former inmate, the background characters could easily share the same motives. They aren't important, just doing the day-to-day grunt work of survival. If this was a caste system, they would be the bottom level. Plenty of excuses for resentment and treachery.

I know it's not as fun as picking on Angel, but it makes more sense to me.

You raise a good point, I think Stevens little outburst could show that the strangers in the tower aren't happy with not being a "favorite"

[mylittlepwny]

Tommy I think its the logical guess because he was the guy running the cameras and the technical gadgets before the "Tower War"

[Ra1th]

And I’m telling you for the Datu case, it was almost surely the first case. Genuinely not remembering who the maintenance guy of his girlfriend’s apartment building was. He might be hiding something...

[nikvoodoo]

You raise a good point, I think Stevens little outburst could show that the strangers in the tower aren't happy with not being a "favorite"

I think Kelly's uprising(s), Michael's narration before the party, Burt's narration as he was carrying Tommy through the hallway, and Simon's attempted escape is some more evidence that the general populace is displeased with life in the Tower. But I still don't think it was someone we don't know. Steven served a plot purpose in getting Lizzy booted from the Tower. I don't think he's got too much else to offer as it stands story wise right now. I believe too much is being made at his "power play" against Burt. He immediately backed down when Burt challenged him. Steven is a talker, he is not an action taker.

P.S. Its nice to see Ra1th fighting with people and me not be in the middle of it for once.

[Ra1th]

P.S. Its nice to see Ra1th fighting with people and me not be in the middle of it for once.

Angel wars are a helluva lot easier when you and crowbar arent involved lol

[WestonWisdom]

And I’m telling you for the Datu case, it was almost surely the first case. Genuinely not remembering who the maintenance guy of his girlfriend’s apartment building was. He might be hiding something with scratch though. But that’s one situation not two.


Dead horse, we are never going to see eye to eye on this I can see.




It was not a play for power at all. How is “It would have been nice to have been considered for leadership” taken as bitter disgruntlement with the way things are run. What has Michael or Burt done, that Angel has taken serious issue with? I’m not seeing what Angel should be so angry about, that he’d want to overthrow Michael and Burt. And if that WAS his intention, then he wouldn’t just let it be known that he’d like to be considered for leadership. IMO it was just a passing remark, maybe even as a fan shout out to the “ Angel for leader “ wars that was going on at the time. Im still not seeing the motive Angel has for wanting a change of power.

Angel has always had a slightly different perspective than Michael and even Saul when it comes surviving, for example, on two occasions I can remember he considers people as resources more than people, firstly, Lizzy, When Michael lets her in he questions how much use she will be(This is also an example of Angel directly challenging Michaels leadership "I need to make the decision when it comes to someone living or dying!"), secondly, Angel is hesitant to rescue Burt for the same reason. This is a mindset he has evolved past lately, but it doesn't mean he wasn't in a different mindset pre-war.

Even if Angel is happy with his position now, it doesn't mean he was in Season 1.



And like I’ve said, He could be hiding something with scratch. But that alone is not reason to call him the traitor, maybe that is a little suspicious, but to guarantee that he is absolutely and most definitely under all circumstances the traitor, is far fetched. The other reasons you’re giving me, either I’m not understanding them properly or they don’t hold water.




Angel wars are a helluva lot easier when you and crowbar arent involved lol

Hey! You saying I'm an easy opponent? :)

[lkiam]

I was just looking at the poll results, Kc voted for "Unknown Tower Occupant". Is this just a red herring?

[WestonWisdom]

I was just looking at the poll results, Kc voted for "Unknown Tower Occupant". Is this just a red herring?

I hope so or we have all wasted a lot of our time.

[Luna Guardian]

Although it would make me very relieved that I haven't spared this particular theory too much thought :p

[Adventureless_Hero]

So episode 20-3 combined with 21-1 have really got me wondering about who the rat could be. Little details are slowly being revealed and I yet I can't quite put them together in such a way that I am 100% certain who the main rat is. I'm particularly concerned with the brief conversation Scratch has with Tardust, in which she says she has to go drop Pippin off (plant a new rat), then he asks "what about the other one?", she replies "we still have her" then he says, no, "the one already there", to which she replies "we haven't heard from them in a while"

At first I had doubts they were referring to a rat. I believed that maybe they were talking about dropping Pippin off at an outpost, which would mean that the others they referred to were just gaurds at different outposts. But because Pippin arrives at the Tower in 21-1, I think it is safe to assume Scratch meant to drop him off there and plant him in the Tower as a new rat. This would mean that when Scratch said, "we still have her" that one of the rats is a female, KELLY!? Maybe. But then that could also mean that the one they haven't heard from in a while could be someone who died, like Tommy (seems unlikely) or Bill.

Any thoughts?

[nikvoodoo]

In combination with what hero wrote above, Scratch's apparent preference ("there's something can do for us" to Lizzy the first time they met with Latch), and the debate about Riley....what if the "her" is in reference to Riley?

Anyone know what color Scratch's hair is?

[WestonWisdom]

In combination with what hero wrote above, Scratch's apparent preference ("there's something can do for us" to Lizzy the first time they met with Latch), and the debate about Riley....what if the "her" is in reference to Riley?

Anyone know what color Scratch's hair is?

I now totally see Scratch/Riley - Scriley, Ratch?

[Eitri]

Maybe Scratch and Riley are related?

[Arkum]

I think one of the people they are talking about could be a mole inside the Colony as well

[Adventureless_Hero]

Maybe Scratch and Riley are related?

Nah,not likely. If that were so, then Riley would also be related to Latch (John) and would have been hella pissed that Peggs killed him. So then Riley would take her best chef's cleaver and carve Peggs a new smile, about six inches lower.

Though I could see Riley totally betraying the Tower; she's French.
Riley: "Yes, it was me who contacted the mallers. Don't you see? I couldn't stand Peggs cooking any longer! That and you men are too thick headed to see that I am not interested in you!"
Saul: "I knew you played for the other team; you are like a Wo-Man. heh heh"
Riley: "Yes, but did you know I wanted Lizzie? And if I could not have her, no one could! I told the Mallers where to find her!"
DUN DUN DUUUUUN!!!!!

[Ra1th]

He has a different mindset. Everyone does. You cant call someone a traitor for having a different mindset. Burt has a different mindset, his priorities are based on rugged survival, he was an...

[WestonWisdom]

Honestly man I don’t think we’re ever gonna see eye to eye. Wanna just call a truce and just wait and see?


Sure, my post count will stop rising so quickly, but sure.

[Ra1th]

Sure, my post count will stop rising so quickly, but sure.

woooooo no more writing up essays

[nikvoodoo]

And you should take notice. Angel was conflicted on the issue. He explained his reasoning, but he was on the fence about it. Had Michael said anything, I’m certain angel would have done as Michael said.

Wait wait....are you saying that Angel won't make decisions without Michael? And you say he's a leader? tsk tsk


Easy opponent? No, But the last big war I was in was two on one against nikvoodoo, and havecrowbarwilltravel, and I got destroyed.

Hmm....wonder why you're always defending Angel all by yourself...hmmmm....

I'm not restarting anything, I'm just messin' with you ;)

[Ra1th]

Wait wait....are you saying that Angel won't make decisions without Michael? And you say he's a leader? tsk tsk



Hmm....wonder why you're always defending Angel all by yourself...hmmmm....

I'm not restarting anything, I'm just messin' with you ;)

Actually if you look at that thread there were like 3 or 4 people who agreed with me... they just didnt really say or do anything until the major thing had blown over, and then they quipped in. people didnt wanna get stuck in the middle of a war i think

as for the angel part, I'd say Angel made a difficult decision in that situation and imo, Michael followed through on that decision. But angel was on the fence about it, so had michael or anyone said otherwise, he may have changed his mind. There have been times when Michael changed his mind due to Angel's input

[Snickelsox]

Ok so I am very new to the forums so please forgive me if I don't pick up on the subtle nuances... if any.

Also if you have not heard all the episodes then this will contain spoilers galore, so go listen instead.

And if this has already been discussed ( I checked and didn't see it) or the most recent episode debunked it then just move along.

I have been listening for about 9 months now and have heard every episode about 5 or 6 times and every time Burt seems more and more sketchy to me. I have a feeling that he was the rat, although he may not have wanted to be and may not have fully understood the consequences of his actions. There is now way he would have willingly sold out the tower, so whatever someone has over him must be huge. Anyway I have made a list of cases which if read with the assumption that Burt IS the rat make more sense.

1: When we first meet Burt he tells Saul and Angel that someone came in and raided his shop before he got there, and that they must have done it before. He never mentions that he was robbed before the zombie uprising so the raiders must have been someone he knew in say way. Plus he mentions that they got there before he did. I have owned a business and "normally" you do not want to live very far away from it, especially if your "stash" is there. So by what he told us Scratch must have gone to Eastern Bay, broke everyone out, made a convoy of sorts, drove back to the gun shop, and stolen all the guns before Burt got back and during the chaos? Not likely. Something else happened, not certain what did though.

2:In chapter 8 when Latch and Scratch are at the tower "asking for sugar" Michael is freaking out asking how this happened and Burt it freaking out as well and very forcefully blaming Saul. Scratch admits that they did follow Saul but that could have just been to keep Burt's cover. While this example is kinda weak it all plays into me not trusting him.

3: Now here we start with the good stuff. In the Chapter R&R they are discussing having a party and Burt is very much against it. With good reason, his heart is in the right place but again someone must have something over him. He says to Michael " Michael you're in for a big I told you so." He could just be talking about the zombies but if he knew something was about to go down then he would have said the same thing. Maybe another on of those double meanings.

4: Same chapter, R&R. After Bill made his scene in the party Burt rushes up from the guard room to see if everything is alright. He mentions that Tommy was in there now but those two were the ONLY people on guard duty that night before everything went to hell. Everyone else was having a good time drinking it up, while Burt was reluctantly informing the Mallers what was going on.

5: Same chapter R&R. Just a small thing but as soon as Bill Sees Burt he asks him "how the hell are ya?" and Burt responded "Hey how you been?" They should NOT be all buddy buddy since the last time they interacted that we know about was with a bullet. And since Bill stole the supplies maybe they were working together?

6:The war. There are a few big things and a few little ones, Ill roll the little ones into this point. "Before the Mallers attacked Burt said " There next step will be the front door." Possibly he knew that from basic strategy or he could have known the Mallers plan. He also said "You never know with this group." Tiny I know but he said it in such a way that it could have been perceived as if he knew more about them than the rest. I should mention again, because he did fight for the Tower in this chapter, that I do not think Burt wanted to be the rat, he was just forced into it.

7:The War. When they are on the radio talking with the Mallers and Burt steps up to talk Durai (sp?) says " Burt, nice to finally meet you. I have heard so much about you." This could have been in reference to the tanker but it could just as easily been a reference to him being an informant for the Mallers because all scratch knew before was that he was named Burt, he owned the gun store, he was a good shot, and that he was old. It sounds from Durai's voice that he knew quite a bit more than that, even though he mentioned Burt's shooting ability.

8: The War. As some Mallers were sneaking their way on to the Tower Burt says that he will go on the balcony and jump down to take them out. "on the out side it will look like one of them." It did look like one of them because it WAS one of them. The Mallers could obviously see well enough to shoot at some people on the windows and they would have notices his bald head in the firelight. A little joke there but in all reality he would not have even come up with the idea if he was not sure they would not shoot him.

9: Separate Dying Embers. After Burt tries to rally everyone and is pretty much rejected he goes on a quest to find some ammo. This is interesting because Burt is smart enough to know that the Zombies would get him if all he had was a few rounds. It is possible that he thought the Mallers would still be around and would shelter him, even if he never wanted to help them. He knew he would be fine alone because he would not actually be alone.

10: Separate Dying embers. Burt says "All I've ever done since I got here was listen to somebody else tell me what to do!" Another double meaning referring to Michael AND the Mallers possibly?

And that is pretty much it for why I think he is the rat. If you think I am wrong, cool. If you think I'm right, cool. Either way I would love to hear another persons take on this and hopefully I am reading WAY too much into somethings because I don't want this to be true.

-Snickelsox

P.S. Please excuse any typos, my keybard is not working so well right now... and I don't know how to spell :P

[Boomstick]

Interesting theory, definitely a possibility.My only qualm, so to speak, is that Burt killed 4 or 5 mallers @least during the fight @ the tower. HE even had to double tap one of the mallers. If he was one of the mallers wouldn't he just fired some shots and let them go. Thoughts?

[Snickelsox]

Well he did not want to be the rat, he was "playing" the side of the mallers while wanting to be on the side of the Tower for that particular scenario. Its the same for Bill, why did he help the tower after he hurt it?

[nikvoodoo]

Well he did not want to be the rat, he was "playing" the side of the mallers while wanting to be on the side of the Tower for that particular scenario. Its the same for Bill, why did he help the tower after he hurt it?

But how do you know the stolen items aren't planted there in the elevator to make Bill look guilty? Besides, Bill never got a shot off when he came downstairs.

[Snickelsox]

Ok so that is a great point and one I had not thought about. While I do not personally think that Bill was set up, mainly because it makes my theory of Burt being the rat a lot less clean, it still does fit for what I think. What it means for my theory however is that there was more than one rat. This could only work in two ways though.

The first is that Burt was working directly with the rat. He could have been the "brains" or the other rat could have been blackmailing him to make him work with the Mallers. If Burt was in fact the "brains" then that would make him a lot more evil than I thought. He would have to be a very good schemer and a very good liar.

The other way that two rats would have worked is if they were given instruction independently of each other. A kind of Right hand not knowing what the left was doing scenario. I like this more because it still means that Burt could have been doing these things reluctantly and not purposefully.

Another thing to keep in mind is that if Burt was evil and DID set up Bill somehow then Bill's death would have been the perfect cover for Burt. Bill would have taken the blame and the sympathy that Burt showed would have made him seem like the least likely suspect and since everyone thought that Bill was the rat and he was dead.

Those two only work if Bill did not steal the food and ammo and was framed.There would still be many questions, how did someone else get the keys? Why would they help the Mallers? And we may never know those, that is if Burt is the rat.

One last thing is that the "chummyness" between Bill and Burt at the party would have made sense if they were working together in some fashion. I would love to hear what anyone thinks about this, yay or nay.

-Snickelsox

[nikvoodoo]

I'll take it one point at a time, and hopefully you will see the light!!! :p


Ok so that is a great point and one I had not thought about. While I do not personally think that Bill was set up, mainly because it makes my theory of Burt being the rat a lot less clean, it still does fit for what I think. What it means for my theory however is that there was more than one rat. This could only work in two ways though.

Aww, don't be afraid of your theories getting dirty....that's all that happens on here! We all throw dirt at each others theories until we start to question everything about ourselves!


The first is that Burt was working directly with the rat. He could have been the "brains" or the other rat could have been blackmailing him to make him work with the Mallers. If Burt was in fact the "brains" then that would make him a lot more evil than I thought. He would have to be a very good schemer and a very good liar.

Burt is no "brains" of any operation. Burt couldn't brain himself out of a paper bag...or something. Anyway, he's not a natural brain type, he's a doer. He's the one that makes things happen.


The other way that two rats would have worked is if they were given instruction independently of each other. A kind of Right hand not knowing what the left was doing scenario. I like this more because it still means that Burt could have been doing these things reluctantly and not purposefully.

But didn't the ammo lock up and store get ransacked around the same time? You know...when Burt wasn't even in the Tower? And along those lines, if Burt's the rat, why does he steal from his own stockpile? Wouldn't he want as much ammo as possible to take down the Tower from the inside?


Another thing to keep in mind is that if Burt was evil and DID set up Bill somehow then Bill's death would have been the perfect cover for Burt. Bill would have taken the blame and the sympathy that Burt showed would have made him seem like the least likely suspect and since everyone thought that Bill was the rat and he was dead.
Bill's death was perfect for whomever the rat is. Even if the Rat didn't steal things and Bill did, Bill takes the rap for all of it.


Those two only work if Bill did not steal the food and ammo and was framed.There would still be many questions, how did someone else get the keys? Why would they help the Mallers? And we may never know those, that is if Burt is the rat.
Here's the thing: So much had to happen when Burt wasn't there. I really don't think Burt can be the rat. He wasn't there for any of the ratlike activities.


One last thing is that the "chummyness" between Bill and Burt at the party would have made sense if they were working together in some fashion. I would love to hear what anyone thinks about this, yay or nay.
Bill was being chummy with everyone. And people of similar generations would tend to gravitate towards each other because they would have common things to talk about and common experiences.

In general, you have good points, but I don't think there's any way Burt is the rat. Especially going back to your idea that Burt planned the raid and knew the people who robbed him. Not really. I betcha if I owned a store called Locked and Loaded and a zombie apocalypse broke out, I'd be shocked if my store didn't get raided. I wouldn't have to know any of them. I owned a gun store. That's more than enough for people to know. That's why Angel and Saul went there in the first place.

[Snickelsox]

Ok so you got me on the Burt not braining his way out of a sack point. However I mentioned time and time again that Burt was the "reluctant rat" if he was at all. In fact I do not think that the word "rat" is good for this situation, so I want to start calling him an informant, still a reluctant one though. I personally do not like the idea that Bill was set up to take the blame, it makes things too convoluted. I like to imagine that he did that for completely different reasons, possibly just being greedy.

For all of this to work the rat would have had to been VERY sneaky and a very good liar ....oooorrrrrr there could have been more than one rat. Two rats would only need to exist (in my vision) if Bill had in fact been set up, if he stole the food to be a jerk then the Mallers would have just been taking advantage of a situation caused by a selfish moron. So if there were two rats that would mean that while Burt and the others were at the Arena then the other rat could steal the food and the ammo. Burt may not have had any idea that this would happen because the Mallers may not have told the rats about each other. Rat one (who if they did exist I think would have been Bill) would have been gathering food and ammo in the elevator, while rat two (Burt) was keeping the Mallers informed. Burt would have not seen the attack coming if he was only updating the Mallers.

Also I mentioned that His store being raided before he got there was very unlikely, not that he planned the raid but something with that time line is fishy.

Lastly I want to state once more that the stuff in this post and the one before only work if Bill was framed or was the second rat.

One last thing, I expected to get ripped to shreds in typical Forum fashion, gladly I have only been minimally insulted :P Thanks

[WestonWisdom]

For all of this to work the rat would have had to been VERY sneaky and a very good liar ....oooorrrrrr there could have been more than one rat. Two rats would only need to exist (in my vision) if Bill had in fact been set up, if he stole the food to be a jerk then the Mallers would have just been taking advantage of a situation caused by a selfish moron. So if there were two rats that would mean that while Burt and the others were at the Arena then the other rat could steal the food and the ammo. Burt may not have had any idea that this would happen because the Mallers may not have told the rats about each other. Rat one (who if they did exist I think would have been Bill) would have been gathering food and ammo in the elevator, while rat two (Burt) was keeping the Mallers informed. Burt would have not seen the attack coming if he was only updating the Mallers.


Not only the food was taken, so was the ammo, and Burt seemed pretty pissed when it happened. I'm sorry, but the whole Burt/Scratch dynamic seems to awesome to be faked, it's one of my favorite parts of the show, and there is no reason he could be blackmailed, after the loss of Shirley, it's been him and his gun, no shit for brains mallers are going to force him to do anything.

If Bill did still the food, he did so because he was selfish and a recluse who wanted to survive. He never was the Rat, his apology during the war was for something else, possibly stealing the food.


The two rat theory? Interesting.

[Snickelsox]

Well regardless of who, or whom, the rat is I am putting my flag on Burt. I would not put it past Kc to Pull a Heavy Rain Scott Shelby situation on us. Also thanks for the feedback!

[clparson]

Ok guys! I think I figured out who the rat is. I think my argument is pretty solid. Here it comes...


KALANI!

We first meet him at the Arena when Datu was captured by the zombies. Samantha says that she doesn't know who Kalani is and that he was there before she was brought there.

Kalani fakes an illness so the zombies don't pick him. Very deceitful!

Then, back at the tower during the party, I don't remember where Kalani was when everyone was getting drunk. I haven't had the chance to listen to it again before posting this, but even if he was in the scene, he wasn't there for very long. I think it was during the party that Kalani contacts his old pals, the Mallers.

Fast forward to when Angel and Kalani are getting the MRE's. Skittles says that he knows him from somewhere, but Kalani denies knowing him. If Kalani was really at the tower, wouldn't Kalani have known who Skittles was? And Skittles has already proven to have a good memory, having remembered the socks he received from Angel.
I think Kalani infiltrated the other Tower and then allowed the zombies in to kill everyone off. After that, the Mallers would have come in and taken all of the supplies or even the building as a new shelter. Obviously, it didn't exactly go as planned. However, the Mallers have a second shot with this new tower.

It may be a little disorganized, but that is my explanation of why Kalani is the rat. What do you think?

[nikvoodoo]

Ok guys! I think I figured out who the rat is. I think my argument is pretty solid. Here it comes...


KALANI!

We first meet him at the Arena when Datu was captured by the zombies. Samantha says that she doesn't know who Kalani is and that he was there before she was brought there.

Kalani fakes an illness so the zombies don't pick him. Very deceitful!

Then, back at the tower during the party, I don't remember where Kalani was when everyone was getting drunk. I haven't had the chance to listen to it again before posting this, but even if he was in the scene, he wasn't there for very long. I think it was during the party that Kalani contacts his old pals, the Mallers.

Fast forward to when Angel and Kalani are getting the MRE's. Skittles says that he knows him from somewhere, but Kalani denies knowing him. If Kalani was really at the tower, wouldn't Kalani have known who Skittles was? And Skittles has already proven to have a good memory, having remembered the socks he received from Angel.
I think Kalani infiltrated the other Tower and then allowed the zombies in to kill everyone off. After that, the Mallers would have come in and taken all of the supplies or even the building as a new shelter. Obviously, it didn't exactly go as planned. However, the Mallers have a second shot with this new tower.

It may be a little disorganized, but that is my explanation of why Kalani is the rat. What do you think?

We don't know where Skittles came from. We assume he's from the Other Tower but we don't know that for certain.

And if Kalani is the rat and allowed Zombies into the previous Tower, why would he betray the Tower to the Mallers first and not the zombies? If the point is to rid the Tower of its occupants in order to let the Mallers take over, why do the Mallers even come to Tower in chapter 11/12? Everyone was drunk, all that needed to happen would be for someone to "accidentally" leave a door open, and take out Tommy so he can't report it.

Besides, if you're saying Kalani worked with the Mallers from the beginning it's adding something that the Mallers don't seem to excel at: Subtlety. They are very no nonsense straight forward people. This cloak and dagger stuff doesn't seem to suit them well. So I think our rat would be a Tower occupant who changes their mind and allies themselves with the Mallers. Not an active Maller participant.

But stay tuned, we're about to see how far an active Maller participant is when it comes to infiltration of the Tower (see: Pippen)

[Eviebae]

I say Tommy was, but not in the sense he did it on purpose, let me lay it down: You're a young boy, the only kid alone in a tower and your aunt is a huge bitch who never listens to you. What if by chance you begin to play with the radio and hear voices on the other end, the people begin to talk to you and they are (acting) nicely to you and talking to you, even giving you advice and making you feel better. You begin to tell them about what's been going on with your life and these new cameras you made (Durai couldn't have known where all of them were) soon you're alone because the adults are alone and you tell the person on the other end about this, soon you are caught and lie and say you never touched the radio and talked to them. That's why I think Tommy was an unintentional rat.

That's what I was thinking to a T. Would explain why they hadn't heard from him in awhile.

[wiffadabiffa]

The only thing that the so called "rat" did was talk to the Mallers, but you never know what they were talking about...
It was obvious that Angel and Scratch did have a "relationship" in the past, whether it was a sexual relationship or not, we don't know for sure...but it was definitely something. Personally, I think that Angel was talking to Scratch about something that may have happened in the past, or anything else. He couldn't have been a "rat" or could he???????? :S

And also...I don't know why anyone would "rat" on anyone to begin with. In a time of a zombie apcalypse...it is not cool -___-

[rottenash]

I believe it's Steven, he raised the stink to boot Lizzy and topple Burts Lead. A big crap distruber. He's always under the radar...has he even done anything to help out the tower?

[clarkie]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but Kelly's a lawyer, right? It could be possible that she knew one/some of the mallers from that.

I also noticed how she defended Pippin in 21-3.

As much as I hate to say it, I do think she's the rat.

[Rock Daddy]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but Kelly's a lawyer, right? It could be possible that she knew one/some of the mallers from that.

I also noticed how she defended Pippin in 21-3.

As much as I hate to say it, I do think she's the rat.

I also still believe Kelly is the rat, but I used to think it was 'cause she was just a spiteful bitch. LOL. Now that we see that she does have a kind soul, I think it's because she is being blackmailed into it. We don't know the fate of her sister (Tommy's Mother) She went missing during the outbreak. But what if, instead of being killed by zombies, she was held by mallers and used as a bargaining chip. We don't know everyone's back story. There was never mention of Tommy's father. For all we know, Tommy's father was in prison, and his mother had Kelly babysit the kids, while she went to visit him. Anything is possible.

[CantWaitForSeason3]

I re-listened to the war and its Bill who shouts out a window to the mallers to come up. Now Bill is real drunk but him not being afraid of the mallers really points to him to being in contact with the Mallers. He was never really part of the towers crew, disliked them in fact, except when he was real sick. Plus you know he just happened to hide all the ammo and food right before the attack.

[Creem_Filling]

I think it was Kelly because she was not so friendly with Michael. And after Tommy died she felt really bad because her foolish actions killed her nephew. I can't see why she would be so sad afterwards otherwise. She was so ready to die when she was practically throwing him out the door not to long before.

[Don Man]

I said Kalani because the way its been set up that he is now one of the most important people in the tower. I think that when they go to the fort on the helicopters he will sabotage them in an attempt to kill the towers residents

[Jackson Tibbetts]

i think it was Steven cause the way he was against Michel and Burt.

[cupcakezombie]

I was thinking about the Pippin hostage situation. If I was in that situation, I would have spilled the beans to the tower and got them to try to help him cover that he has spilled and help get the loved one back.
That he hasn't maybe indicates that the other rat is high up in terms of leadership and will hear if spills and it will get back to the mallers, and that he may not even know who it is. It might be a situation of get in there and the rat will come to you.
Sorry, no suggestion on who that is though.

[Beaumont]

Is this still an issue? I assumed that when Tardust mentioned that they had been monitoring the calls the Tower had been making that there wasn't a rat inside the Tower but all the info the Mallers had was based on intercepting the signals of the low tech devices the tower was using for communication.

[martycl1968]

I think it is Kelly,in ep 20 part 3, scratch says she going to drop pippin. Tardis asks about the other one scratch says we still got HER, to which Tardis responds no the one already there. Scratch says they had not heard from them in a while.

To me this means the rat is a female, they could have not heard from them because she left the tower on a mission.
The only suspects are Kelly, Lizzy or Riley. The only female that left the tower during that time. Lizzy and Riley just don't seem the type. I could be wrong but I don't think so. Kelly on the other had was a lawyer before and could have been the head Mallers squezze before he went to prison.

[Grimlock]

Mike but I have no good reasons. I feel like he should have been dead to rights during that period when they didn't know where he was and he doesn't seem that eager to talk about how he was able to survive that situation.

[Scuner Mac]

Just my 2 cents on this topic. I think it could possibly be Lizzy. In the last chapter, Scratch was very insistent that they not kill Lizzy because she wanted to bring her to the head of the Maulers (I forget his name now). Possibly to find out why Lizzy has not reported to them in a while.
My theory is that Lizzy may have initially been the rat, but then had a change of heart, possibly after falling in love with Saul, and she wilfully walked out of the tower because she was feeling guilty. She may think that she can plead with the Maulers to leave the tower alone or something along those lines.
I would not put it past KC to surprise us with one of the main characters being the rat. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Therein lies the fun.

[kafu288]

Scratch wasn't talking about the rat when she said we still have HER. Tardust says "No" when Scratch says her. This points to the rat actually being a male character. Tardust clearly meant the rat but from listening to it it seems clear that Scratch thought he meant Lizzy, as in "what do we do with Lizzy". Also they say they haven't heard from the rat for a while and while that does point to it being someone who left the tower in that time, the fact that it is heavily implied that the Rat is not female leaves me to point the finger at either Angel, Kalani or Datu.

Datu was clearly disillusioned with the tower during the end moments of the war and had a death wish, and was in his room the whole time. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that Datu has a second radio or something like that in his room and maybe he had heard the mallers talking and reached out. In the mental state that he was in it would have been easy to get information from him.

Angel clearly is either hiding something about his past or at least not offering up important information. Scratch seems to recognise him and he knows how to hotwire cars. While knowing how to hotwire a car or knowing a completely fucking crazy bitch like Scratch does not neccessarily make you a untrustworthy individual or likely to betray people, it does point to a connection there. If you also remember it has been made clear at points in the series up to that point that Michael and Angel didn't respect his leadership abilities (although a mutual respect had started to develop at this point) and you will also find that one of Lizzy, Pegs or Rilly (my mind is blanking on it right now) had asked him where Michael was to find out if it was ok to do something and from memory Angel was annoyed at that. A combination of a lack of respect for him as a leader and this connection with Scratch and implied past point to him as a strong subject.

Which brings me to Kalani. Basically, when Kalani first entered the tower he seemed very hesitant to trust Michael and co and I think that if he had access to the radio he would very likely want to reach out to other survivors to see if anyone was out there he could go join instead and then all the mallers would have to do is convince him that they would have better leadership and that would be all she wrote. Kalani proved in the arena that the only thing he cares about is his survival, not that I can blame him, while also proving that he was very quick thinking on his feet and he may have decided in a brief moment that the mallers leadership would give him a better chance of survival. I also, if my memory of the scene is correct, don't remember hearing him during the party scene which would have been the perfect time for him to be on the radio.

[armyzombiefan]

Is this still an issue? I assumed that when Tardust mentioned that they had been monitoring the calls the Tower had been making that there wasn't a rat inside the Tower but all the info the Mallers had was based on intercepting the signals of the low tech devices the tower was using for communication.

I agree this is a strong possibility. It's just human nature to want to blame someone. I would be very happy if your theory is the right one!!!!!!

[Th3_T3ch]

Which brings me to Kalani. Basically, when Kalani first entered the tower he seemed very hesitant to trust Michael and co and I think that if he had access to the radio he would very likely want to reach out to other survivors to see if anyone was out there he could go join instead and then all the mallers would have to do is convince him that they would have better leadership and that would be all she wrote. Kalani proved in the arena that the only thing he cares about is his survival, not that I can blame him, while also proving that he was very quick thinking on his feet and he may have decided in a brief moment that the mallers leadership would give him a better chance of survival. I also, if my memory of the scene is correct, don't remember hearing him during the party scene which would have been the perfect time for him to be on the radio.

To save Nik the time, Kalani was a the party, sober and dancing with Kelly. What is also mentioned is that Kalani had guard duty before the party started, giving him ample time to radio the mallers. If you couldn't tell I believe Kalani to be not only the rat, but also a maller.

[Nevermatter]

Some of this makes me think back to Burt's story about back in his day, when you got in trouble with the law you had two choices, prison or the army. Was this for-shadowing that one of the soldiers may have been in prison at one point?

[nikvoodoo]

Some of this makes me think back to Burt's story about back in his day, when you got in trouble with the law you had two choices, prison or the army. Was this for-shadowing that one of the soldiers may have been in prison at one point?

it's backshadowing? At the same point you mention this quote, Saul mentions he was in jail. So we know one of them already has a criminal record.

[WestonWisdom]

it's backshadowing? At the same point you mention this quote, Saul mentions he was in jail. So we know one of them already has a criminal record.

It cannot possibly be Saul or Burt now, but I won't be changing my vote.

[Th3_T3ch]

So since my Kalani theory is out I must examine all the evidence and guess again. Kalani, Burt, Datu, Angel, Michael, Saul, Lizzy, and Pegs are out. Steven, Riley, Victor, and Kelly are still options. I'm thinking Steven, just because of Steven's most recent opinion. I also don't believe Riley, Victor or Kelly could be it because of Riley's mind set, Victor's loyalty, and Kelly's chat with Pippen.

[GodofInsanity]

I like the Steven idea too, especially with his not wanting to be around or do anything near Pippen. That could be something to throw us off the scent though. I agree, Burt, Saul, Kalani, and Datu are out cause they were gone. Angel cause he was tricked out of the room. Micheal cause that just wouldnt make sense in my minds eye. Lizzie for obvious reasons. I will count Victor out cause he wasn't around when the Mallers attacked. No to Pegs cause I do not think she could be that efficient with the silenced shots. it sounded like 2 to the chest and one to finish him off. I won't take Riley off the list, but I think it has moved away from Kelly cause Pippen showed new recognition it seemed when the shooter entered.
So though Riley is not off the list I feel it is Steven as well

[Mordekii]

With Pippin admitting he was from the mallers camp its only logical that the person with the most desire to see him expire would be the rat. Assuming that there is a mole, sadly i still haven't come to terms that there is one. I can agree that someone with skill is the one that shot him. Also I have been thinking alot about what happened with the silenced pistol. Earlier in the episode when trying to shoot a zombie Burt asks for it and Saul cant find it. So someone took it, perhaps who ever helped them pack? I am starting to think its Kelly. I bet she was "chatting" up Pippin in order to make her suspicion decrease. Also she could have got info from him that could lead others to her in their 6 hours together. Thats my opinion now, sure to change with just one episode.... and thats exactly why I love this Podcast. Great story telling.

[7oddisdead]

I brought this up over in the chapter discussion, but why have we eliminated kalani from suspicion? Could he not have shot pippin, ran down to the car, and hauled ass outta there? Jus because we got the conversation between he and Burt first, that doesn't mean it happened first. Nothing about kalani seems to add up to me...

[Th3_T3ch]

I brought this up over in the chapter discussion, but why have we eliminated kalani from suspicion? Could he not have shot pippin, ran down to the car, and hauled ass outta there? Jus because we got the conversation between he and Burt first, that doesn't mean it happened first. Nothing about kalani seems to add up to me...
Kalani was in a car with Datu after the shooting happened. The radio wasn't working when Burt called in, giving us a time connection to when the shooting happened because I doubt it would take Angel that long to realize that the break in was a distraction and find Pippen and (Possibly) Hope dead. It just doesn't fit in with the time.

[nikvoodoo]

Kalani was in a car with Datu after the shooting happened. The radio wasn't working when Burt called in, giving us a time connection to when the shooting happened because I doubt it would take Angel that long to realize that the break in was a distraction and find Pippen and (Possibly) Hope dead. It just doesn't fit in with the time.

Now hang on....7odd is giving us a chance to revive both our theories of the rat...maybe we should hear him out!

We do know Kc fudges the timelines often. It would depend on where in their trip to LAX Kalani and Datu are. I'd imagine they are not at the half way point yet to suggest turning around to go back. So....who knows. We both could still have horses in this race....though....it really is looking bleak for us.

[7oddisdead]

/\this.... I also feel the suspicion shifting away. I'm just fleshing out ideas. There's so many possibilities that it's hard to flesh out all of them.

Kalani is a mauler, never flew into lax at all. Just happened to see the hawiian airlines plane and made up the story. Was originally a plant At The other tower

Riley shot pippen. Not a rat or a traitor, but upset, drunk and looking for revenge

Pegs. Again not rat/traitor but paranoid of pippin being sent to kill her and just got to him first. The trip to the colony proved see isn't as hesitant with guns anymore. And see probably does have access to michaels stuff(silenced pistol)

Steven. Could be. But that's just to easy

[Kunja]

All things considered and starting my 3rd listen from the start...
I know I'm going out on a limb here... but I'm linking all the foul happenings in the tower to one person... The stealing of the food and ammo, ratting out to the mallers, and the shooting of Pippin and Hope...

I think it's Pegs because she's mental... she didn't have an alibi for when the stuff was stolen (she said she was on the roof)... the party was HER idea... and Pegs and Kelly was the only main characters in the tower present for all 3 events... and like I said in my post about Pegs being mental... it would make a great twist and awesome drama between her and Michael!!!
PEGS I'm Calling You OUT!!!! and your "Mr Wiskers" voice isn't going to save you either!

[Drew227598]

Some of this makes me think back to Burt's story about back in his day, when you got in trouble with the law you had two choices, prison or the army. Was this for-shadowing that one of the soldiers may have been in prison at one point?

They used to do that back when Burt was in the Marines due because they needed bodies to fill positions, however now they no longer do that because the Military as a whole is a lot more technologically advance and you can't have people just filling a position. Today’s military is a lot different than the Vietnam area military Burt saw action in, That is partly why there is no draft now a days. Then again this is just a story and anything goes, right?

[nikvoodoo]

All things considered and starting my 3rd listen from the start...
I know I'm going out on a limb here... but I'm linking all the foul happenings in the tower to one person... The stealing of the food and ammo, ratting out to the mallers, and the shooting of Pippin and Hope...

I think it's Pegs because she's mental... she didn't have an alibi for when the stuff was stolen (she said she was on the roof)... the party was HER idea... and Pegs and Kelly was the only main characters in the tower present for all 3 events... and like I said in my post about Pegs being mental... it would make a great twist and awesome drama between her and Michael!!!
PEGS I'm Calling You OUT!!!! and your "Mr Wiskers" voice isn't going to save you either!

What about the shots fired that started the war? Pegs couldn't have done that, she was in the guard room on the radio with Durai

[Kunja]

What about the shots fired that started the war? Pegs couldn't have done that, she was in the guard room on the radio with Durai

100% correct...
I haven't put much though into the shooter... even though I just listened to The War today... but I agree Pegs was not the shooter... I will guess it was just a drunk, trigger happy no-name from the party...
I may listen to R&R and the War again... I did find some of Pegs dialogue with Michael was odd... but then again, I'm trying to sniff her out... so I may be smashing my theory into the story...
but that's my theory and I'm sticking to it!

[nikvoodoo]

100% correct...
I haven't put much though into the shooter... even though I just listened to The War today... but I agree Pegs was not the shooter... I will guess it was just a drunk, trigger happy no-name from the party...
I may listen to R&R and the War again... I did find some of Pegs dialogue with Michael was odd... but then again, I'm trying to sniff her out... so I may be smashing my theory into the story...
but that's my theory and I'm sticking to it!

Just posing the question :) It's not to say you aren't wrong at all. There is the theory that there are two rats. Pegs could be one of them if that's true. Not to mention, the Rat and the Assassin don't necessarily have to be the same person

[Kunja]

Just posing the question :) It's not to say you aren't wrong at all. There is the theory that there are two rats. Pegs could be one of them if that's true. Not to mention, the Rat and the Assassin don't necessarily have to be the same person

True... But like good ole Martin Luther... I can not recant unless convinced by sacred scripture... if anything, i'm stubborn :P

[Th3_T3ch]

Now hang on....7odd is giving us a chance to revive both our theories of the rat...maybe we should hear him out!

We do know Kc fudges the timelines often. It would depend on where in their trip to LAX Kalani and Datu are. I'd imagine they are not at the half way point yet to suggest turning around to go back. So....who knows. We both could still have horses in this race....though....it really is looking bleak for us.

Yes, but do you think Kalani, the fat Hawaiian, could run up FIVE floors of steps, set a diversion, bust into the guard room, kill pippen and possibly hope, THEN run all the way back downstairs to Datu without being out of breath? We've already seen that Kalani couldn't even run a block without being winded.
Also I'm pretty sure your Datu theory is impossible now because do you really see him shooting Samantha's daughter?

[Th3_T3ch]

Something else has become relevant. If the shooter did infact use the silenced pistol they would have had to have gotten it while everybody was out at the mall. Saul and Burt have been out in the field for two, almost three days. Saul and Burt would have had to gotten the silenced pistol at some point, but then the rat/shooter had to come in, while in the tower, and steal it before they left.

[ZombieMama]

Something else has become relevant. If the shooter did infact use the silenced pistol they would have had to have gotten it while everybody was out at the mall. Saul and Burt have been out in the field for two, almost three days. Saul and Burt would have had to gotten the silenced pistol at some point, but then the rat/shooter had to come in, while in the tower, and steal it before they left.

That's a nice way to rule out many.

Still, as easy as the Steve option might sound, It just makes sense. Just because we don't know much about his character now, doesnt mean we won't get more info in this next episode. Im just thinking, out of all the possibilities, his has the least holes in it, no matter how simple it seems

[7oddisdead]

Yes, but do you think Kalani, the fat Hawaiian, could run up FIVE floors of steps, set a diversion, bust into the guard room, kill pippen and possibly hope, THEN run all the way back downstairs to Datu without being out of breath? We've already seen that Kalani couldn't even run a block without being winded.
Also I'm pretty sure your Datu theory is impossible now because do you really see him shooting Samantha's daughter?

I know. Seems a bit ridiculous right? Never said I believed it....Just throwing things at the wall, seeing what sticks... I think I'm done with the speculating...(quietly waits for next episode....)

[Th3_T3ch]

I know. Seems a bit ridiculous right? Never said I believed it....Just throwing things at the wall, seeing what sticks... I think I'm done with the speculating...(quietly waits for next episode....)

I know, and it is my theory that I'm debunking. How on earth could you possibly just sit and wait for the next episode without theorizing.

[Don Man]

10 votes for Tommy! :O come on he isnt smart enough to be the rat and there is no way he could have been to the mallers without anyone knowing

[7oddisdead]

I know, and it is my theory that I'm debunking. How on earth could you possibly just sit and wait for the next episode without theorizing.

Haha tried, can't do it! So the one thing we do know is the rat/traitoe has access to the silenced pistol. Sorry to everybody who is thinking Steven, but I highly doubt he ranks high enough to have access to the wea

Damn iPhone! Access to weapons.... Leaving us with Michael angel riley pegs. My gut keeps telling me Riley. Based solely on the rooftop conversation she and angel had. I also jokingly had a theory where she knew pippin from before the outbreak. That is also starting to seem a bit more plausible in my mind.

A question... And it may not amount to anything. But have we ever heard Riley or.....kalani( yes I went back there) narrate a story from their journal. I can't remember a time we did...Im a bit fuzzy on that...

[nikvoodoo]

We've heard Riley narrate in real time (ie After Angel tried to "pick her up" and she said angel doesn't), but neither Kalani or Riley has narrated in the manner you're speaking of to the best of my knowledge. Riley does a lot of exposition through her text though. She's a pretty odd duck that Riley...

[7oddisdead]

My thinking here is if I were a rat/traitor. I probably wouldn't keep up on my journal. Therefore we would have little to no narration from that character. Like I said may lead to nothing. But it's something.....

[Kunja]

Something else has become relevant. If the shooter did infact use the silenced pistol they would have had to have gotten it while everybody was out at the mall. Saul and Burt have been out in the field for two, almost three days. Saul and Burt would have had to gotten the silenced pistol at some point, but then the rat/shooter had to come in, while in the tower, and steal it before they left.

I really don't think the story is this spot on to use this fact... but it's really not that hard to silence a firearm.... duct tape a 2 liter bottle to the muzzle will do the trick... Not That I would do such an illeagle thing... but I may have seen it done a time or two :-P

[7oddisdead]

Wouldn't that only work on the first shot?

[nikvoodoo]

7od is right. After the first shot the 2 liter silencer would be rendered useless.

[Kunja]

true... forgot about the second shot... mindfart :-P

[7oddisdead]

Well I think that at least for this next episode I'm gonna plant my crackpot flag in this one...... Riley is the traitor....kalani is the rat! I'm sticking with it....I'll ride that sinking ship!!! Call me Ishmael....

[nikvoodoo]

Well I think that at least for this next episode I'm gonna plant my crackpot flag in this one...... Riley is the traitor....kalani is the rat! I'm sticking with it....I'll ride that sinking ship!!! Call me Ishmael....

I think this would actually make ye Ahab, matey. ARRR, I see me a white whale!!

[7oddisdead]

Aye. Ahab I be...., ahab Ishmael! Pass the rum she be off the starboard side! (I need sleep) Riley be the shootarrr! Kalani be doin fishy stuff with the chopparr!(again....sleep).....ahem... Yea, have a plan and stickin with it...but I bet tomorrow we dont hear any details at the tower... But more on Lizzie and tardust.

[Th3_T3ch]

I'm going on a limb here and saying that we will only hear about hopes condition, then be rushed off to LAX, then to the arena.

[cupcakezombie]

Well episode 22-2 shortens the list even more.

[Kunja]

Kelly was there when they originally talked to the Mallers in the lobby (well up in the guard room). Burt says that they heard everything. If you remember Michael had just been having a go at Kelly about falling asleep while on guard duty and maybe Kelly thought she'd be better off with them in the tower. Then when she realised what was going on she regretted it. It would explain why she was so upset about Tommy's death. It wouldn't have happened if they hadn't had to call the Zombies to chase off the mallers. Its probably the same reason she takes fault for Saul's injury. This was right when Kelly started to change her attitude towards everyone. I think she got in touch with the mallers and told them what was happening in the tower, hoping that they would come in and change the leadership situation. There was probably some sort of deal that would have lead to protection for her, or at least she thought so.
I really like this... I always kinda chalked her change up to "Oh my god, I was so shity to him, now he's dead" kinda thing... but this makes sense....
but I"m still sticking with Pegs being criminally insane... I'm riding that one all the way to the crash site!

[Th3_T3ch]

Kc you genius, you kept the small hope of Kalani being the rat alive! Unfortunately the top of the rat list is Kelly and Victor.

[Ra1th]

So it seems like the only candidate for rat left is Kelly. Victor came too late, Lewis had an alibi. And from what Michael said earlier she may have had a change and switched sides to the tower,

[Th3_T3ch]

So it seems like the only candidate for rat left is Kelly. Victor came too late, Lewis had an alibi. And from what Michael said earlier she may have had a change and switched sides to the tower,

Kalani is still a highly unlikely possiblity for being the rat. He had to pass the guard room on his way to the motor pool, he could have easily gotten the gun, he didn't have to pass anybody after killing pippin, and to top it off he could easily return the silenced pistol to Saul and Burt's bag

[Ra1th]

Kalani is still a highly unlikely possiblity for being the rat. He had to pass the guard room on his way to the motor pool, he could have easily gotten the gun, he didn't have to pass anybody after killing pippin, and to top it off he could easily return the silenced pistol to Saul and Burt's bag

The only way I see that happening is if kalani has the silenced pistol on him and uses it or shows that he has it. Otherwise it's prly best to leave he logic the show gives us untouched. It seems like it would be a stretch to assume that it was kalani because you'd need the times to line up. If Michael rules datu and kalani out then they prly aren't the rat.

[Th3_T3ch]

The only way I see that happening is if kalani has the silenced pistol on him and uses it or shows that he has it. Otherwise it's prly best to leave he logic the show gives us untouched. It seems like it would be a stretch to assume that it was kalani because you'd need the times to line up. If Michael rules datu and kalani out then they prly aren't the rat.

Michael has been wrong before, you know that. and the times do match up for Kalani to cut the wire, hide, shoot Pippin and leave downstairs.

[Ra1th]

Michael has been wrong before, you know that. and the times do match up for Kalani to cut the wire, hide, shoot Pippin and leave downstairs.

I'd say he's right a lot more often than he is wrong.

[7oddisdead]

Michael has been wrong before, you know that. and the times do match up for Kalani to cut the wire, hide, shoot Pippin and leave downstairs.

/\ this.....

[Krypton]

I think the ray is William Cabrera he's crazy so it's him :) Jk I have an idea that it's Riley since they say it's Some one loyal to them and she was supposedly drunk but come on u can act drunk there for hope wouldnt have smelled her

[vattenflaska]

I'm thinking Kelly is looking like the most likely, but I still haven't figured out what she's got to gain from it.
Then again, I also kinda like the idea of it being her and someone else, working together

[TheSpectre]

I was certain it was kelly. Now I am not so sure therefore i shall point my finger at Michael Swann !!!! Who better to tell people things than the narrator.

That is funny. I honestly think it was Kelly

[Th3_T3ch]

/\ this.....

I know... I think its hardwired into my brain that kalani is the rat/traitor. If Kc makes the rat some one else my brain might go into meltdown mode.


I'd say he's right a lot more often than he is wrong.
I think it's time for Michael 2.0 to go threw a fit of being wrong. He even says that Kalani could have done it. Angel was the one that said that Datu had thought they had been together all along, but he was wrong (not meaning to offend you) because Kalani was up talking to Michael a short time before the alarm was sounded.

[7oddisdead]

part of me wants it to be kalani... and he reveals this info just as the chopper is taking off...

[cPT.cAPSLOCK]

I'm thinking Kelly is looking like the most likely, but I still haven't figured out what she's got to gain from it.
Then again, I also kinda like the idea of it being her and someone else, working together

Assuming the rat is the same one that shot Pippin and Hope, it can't be Kelly.
Pippin says "It- It's you!" near the end of 22-1 with a scared voice, while he just met Kelly before that and had a good time with her.

It must be someone who Pippin met before, and thus is probably related to the Mallers.

It can't be Michael, Angel, or Datu, as they met Pippin when he just arrived to the tower. That's pretty much all we know for now.

Let's go trough the people Pippin meets, and thus can't be the rat:
21-2:
2:00 - Michael
2:20 - Datu
2:40 - Tanya
2:50 - Angel

21-3:
1:20 - Kelly
2:40 - Kalani OR Victor. Need some help on this one!

22-1
5:00 - Hope

Saul and Burt are looking for helicopters and Lizzy, so obviously they can't be the rat either.


Other notes:

21-2, 13:00 - Kalani was supposed to watch Pippin, but avoided the job. It's UNCLEAR if he met Pippin yet or not. A little suspicious, as he could've worked on the helicopter-plan while watching Pippin. On the other hand, he had to inspect the roof, but that wasn't quite high priority.
However, because he met Kalani on 21-3, 2:40, he would've panicked by then already.
22-1, 0:50 - "Steven" doesn't want to watch Pippin. t's UNCLEAR if he met Pippin yet or not. Suspicious, but it's a relatively unknown character and he says Pippin creeps him out, which means he may have seen him.
22-1, 2:00 - Pegs also skipped guard duty because of Pippin. However, it's very unlikely for her to be the read as she couldn't have met the mallers as she was picked up at the very start of the show (before the mallers even existed).
The reason I assume the rat is also the shooter, is that it'd be very coincidental to have two incredible traitors in the Tower at the same time. Also, that's not quite Kc's style based on all episodes so far.

Surprisingly enough, this would make Pegs most suspicious.

One final note: if the killer would be someone that Pippin met in the Tower, he wouldn't have been scared - He would've asked "what are you doing with that gun?". Also, the killer wasn't masked - also he wouldn't have recognized him at all.

[nikvoodoo]

Assuming the rat is the same one that shot Pippin and Hope, it can't be Kelly.
Pippin says "It- It's you!" near the end of 22-1 with a scared voice, while he just met Kelly before that and had a good time with her.

It must be someone who Pippin met before, and thus is probably related to the Mallers.

This is what i posted in the chapter discussion about how it could potentially be someone Pippin knew: http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?1733-Chapter-22-quot-Our-Doubts-Are-Traitors-quot-part-2&p=17559&viewfull=1#post17559



Lets just imagine that Pippin was an informant/plant/mole/whatever seeking out the original rat to reestablish contact. Pippin knows he is seeking someone out. But he's never met this person and isn't sure who it may be.

All of a sudden while he's in the guard room, an alarm goes off, and a person enters the room holding a silenced pistol (which has to be out already because you don't hear any sound of a weapon being drawn). It becomes obvious to him, this is who he was supposed to be searching for ("It's you") but sadly it's too late and Pippin is toast.

In this instance Pippin could have met everyone and shook their hand in line and held a conversation with them. But if he wasn't sure who he was looking for it wouldn't make a difference if he had met them before or not. The "It's you" could be prompted by someone he's already met but has now revealed themselves as the Rat to him by coming in holding an assassins weapon.

[bequita]

I wish I could change my vote on this poll. :(

[Grognaurd]

I am going to take another tact here. There is a big difference between action and intent. What do I mean. Suppose the rat was not acting out of malice. I have no evidence to show you what I mean. BUt, say...

Tommy's Uncle is with the Mallers. He speaks to them
Riley or Angel have a connection to the mallers. For the sake of argument, we will just say Scratch.

I do not remember hearing much about Riely at the party. Angel arrives late, but then I remember he says he is going to look for Riley. Riley is not around because she is talking to the mallers. Or, Angel does not look for Riley and goes and talks to the mallers.

Both of them are buzzed maybe more. They let it slip or casually mention the actions of the Hoarder. They have no food / Ammo and everybody is getting drunk.

Durai hears this and orders an assault that arrives a few hours later. The rat did not know the violence that would insue. Going back to the story line. Angel is puking his guts out. Is he that drunk? Maybe it is an oh shit what have I done moment...

Rat no longer speaks to the tower. A maller shows up (Pippin) and although they never ment to facilitate the attack. It happened. They figure there is no way to convince the tower that they did not do it, so the rat goes from being a Pawn to a Murderer to keep the secret.

If we want to take more blame from the rat, Maybe the person is not even talking to the mallers. They could have been someone that does not want the attention of the tower at this time. Maybe not talking to anybody and just blabbing on and no to see if anyone turns on a radio at that time. The mallers are monitoring all 1 -40 so will hear it on 18.

Which, by the way, is the most common choice. If you travel with truckers on the interstates, they are all on 18. It is the public domain FYI. If your heading South, truckers heading north have already been there. They can tell you if the law has a checkpoint. A speed trap. The scales are open. A nasty accident. Whatever. SO, if I wanted to find someone, I would choose 18. I would also talk for the sake of talking. The longer you talk the better the chances of intersecting with someone.

[Osiris]

Angel is the rat. At first, I'd thought it was Lizzy... but now, no. Angel.

[Th3_T3ch]

Angel is the rat.

Your asking for trouble from Ra1th by saying that.

[GChild78]

Sticking my flag on Pegs.

[gamergirllovesu]

I really dont want it to be Riley but there is alot of evidence pointing her way until I heard Michael mention that the killer could be the traitor who had a change of heart and wanted to keep her identity secret and stay with the tower. once he said that Kelly came up immediately. at first kelly was doing all she could to disrupt the tower then after the war she did a complete 180 and became helpful so most likely she killed pippen after trying to convince him not to go through with the evil maller plan and being threatened by pippin to have her identity revealed.

[Kiwi of the Dead]

I guess I don't really know if anyone's already said this, but here's my theory: Riley is the rat. She was the one that radioed the Mallers, and she's the one that "stole" the supplies. However, since the war, she's had a change of heart and has stopped contacting the Mallers. Pippin was sent as a replacement, who Riley then killed to prevent him from completing his mission. (She couldn't just expose him, because it'd raise too much suspicion.) She then destroyed the radio to prevent any mention of Pippin's death, because she knew the Mallers would be listening in. She then doused herself in alcohol to give herself an alibi.


I really dont want it to be Riley but there is alot of evidence pointing her way until I heard Michael mention that the killer could be the traitor who had a change of heart and wanted to keep her identity secret and stay with the tower. once he said that Kelly came up immediately. at first kelly was doing all she could to disrupt the tower then after the war she did a complete 180 and became helpful so most likely she killed pippen after trying to convince him not to go through with the evil maller plan and being threatened by pippin to have her identity revealed.

It's definitely possible, and the turnaround fits Kelly. I guess the only thing that's questionable is Pippin's reaction to the killer, but if she'd tried to talk him out of it then that might have something to do with it. It could just be the fact that she shows up with a gun, too. :p

[Grognaurd]

Kiwi, Riley may be the rat, but she unlikely to be the thief. The stuff was most likely hidden while she was at the arena. If she did it before she left, Burt and Saul would probably have noticed before the rescue mission

[Kiwi of the Dead]

Kiwi, Riley may be the rat, but she unlikely to be the thief. The stuff was most likely hidden while she was at the arena. If she did it before she left, Burt and Saul would probably have noticed before the rescue mission

D'oh, I forgot about her trip to the arena. That means the thief is either Bill (which is kind of implied) or maybe a different rat. :p

[Grognaurd]

Yea the thief is rough. A lot of evidence points to Bill. But, Pegs did take care of Bill when his leg was infected. She could have accessed the key then. She would be familiar with the elevators and the breaker. If the thief / rat / killer is the same person, the only major characters available are Pegs and Kelley

[AdrianHD]

The thief has to be Bill. There's no doubt. He said sorry before he died. Which to me, signaled that he took the supplies.

[AMcJV12]

I have couple different thoughts on the rat/thief/killer. I don't know if any of these are accurate or even possible, but they are interesting to thinkmabout all the same. First of all, I think that they are all different people. Second, I think that Bill was the thief, due to his apology before his death. Also, it's possible that he may have been somehow involved with the mallers. I may be incorrect (it's been a while since I listened to that part of the story) but I seem to remember that the supplies dissapeared just before the mallers attacked. Maybe Bill somehow knew that the mallers were coming, stole the supplies to save himself, then had a change of heart and came back to help? Third, I think that the rat used to someone else who died (Bill?), and the new rat may be someone at the tower who is being blackmailed by the mallers. Maybe someone whose family has been captured, or who has someone important held in captivity? It would be interesting (if not very likely) if the rat was Saul or Riley, and the mallers have contacted them, saying they'll kill Lizzy if they don't follow orders? It would be another reason for Scratch to say she needs Lizzy. Lastly, the killer could be someone who doesn't nescisarily someone who wants to harm the tower (they didn't kill Hope, and they may have just been taking justice into their own hands), but the fact that the radio gets shot is... interesting. If it was someone at the tower, they would probably would know about the other radio. Is it someone from outside? Is it someone who didn't want the tower to hear something on the radio for a certain period of time? I honestly have no clue. Anyway, just a couple of crackpot theories. Please tell me how wrong I am by replying! Flames appreciated!

[cupcakezombie]

I have finally decided where I am going to stick my flag for the rat, and I think it is Kalani. Here are a few things that stick out for me: <br />
- The situation surrounding Kalani and the other Tower....

[shanahan237]

My theory on pegs being the rat. She was one of the only named characters left in the tower during the rescue of Datu. The only others there were Liz, bill, tommy and Kelly. She was growing food for bill and helping him when he was sick so it is possible that she learned the hiding spot for the guns or they worked together. It was her idea to have the party and she is pretty demanding about it. Its the first thing she really pushes. Now I'm making a big guess but i think Duri might be pegs father in jail for a gun crime and thats why she hates guns at first. When she talks to him over the radio during the war his tone changes. I think Duri would get pretty annoyed at this point but he doesn't and its just a weird exchange. I think pegs didn't mean for the war to happen and thats part of why she was so depressed after the war. Also why she went on the colony mission to help her feel better about it. I think she is loyal to Michael now and that Pipen was a threat to her. I have a hard time seeing her as a cold blooded killer but desperate times. And i think she had left to go to the chopper when they gathered everyone to smell for gun powder. Most people who the people talk about knowing show up later in the story ie. Saul's mom, hope, angels girl, Saul's girl(dog). I went back and listened to the story with this in mind and it fit. First time on the forums and the only theories i have herd were on were not dead. So I'm sorry if you guys have already shot this down and have to read it again. And i keep hearing kolani and Riley but they were at the arena when the guns were stolen.

[nikvoodoo]

My theory on pegs being the rat. She was one of the only named characters left in the tower during the rescue of Datu. The only others there were Liz, bill, tommy and Kelly. She was growing food for bill and helping him when he was sick so it is possible that she learned the hiding spot for the guns or they worked together. It was her idea to have the party and she is pretty demanding about it. Its the first thing she really pushes. Now I'm making a big guess but i think Duri might be pegs father in jail for a gun crime and thats why she hates guns at first. When she talks to him over the radio during the war his tone changes. I think Duri would get pretty annoyed at this point but he doesn't and its just a weird exchange. I think pegs didn't mean for the war to happen and thats part of why she was so depressed after the war. Also why she went on the colony mission to help her feel better about it. I think she is loyal to Michael now and that Pipen was a threat to her. I have a hard time seeing her as a cold blooded killer but desperate times. And i think she had left to go to the chopper when they gathered everyone to smell for gun powder. Most people who the people talk about knowing show up later in the story ie. Saul's mom, hope, angels girl, Saul's girl(dog). I went back and listened to the story with this in mind and it fit. First time on the forums and the only theories i have herd were on were not dead. So I'm sorry if you guys have already shot this down and have to read it again. And i keep hearing kolani and Riley but they were at the arena when the guns were stolen.

First of all, Welcome to the forums :)

Second, I don't think anyone else on here has proposed the idea of Pegs being Durai's daughter. That is a very interesting theory indeed, and certainly would give Pegs a reason.

There's two things to keep in mind when it comes to our rat/thief situation: If Bill is actually the thief, Kalani and Riley aren't off the hook. If Bill did actually steal all those goods, then that reopens all doors leading to just about every character.

Second thing to keep in mind: Pegs couldn't have left for the chopper yet for the hand smell test. Kalani and Datu had just left minutes before Michael had Angel gather everyone together. There's at least 1 hour of time between Kalani leaving and calling for Pegs to travel to LAX, and it was during that one hour of travel that Datu and Kalani heard on the radio Michael and Angel executing their ruse of pinning the murder of Pippin on Lewis.

[Pikepaw]

Given the current evidence, I think it is most likely Kelly as the Rat, but I'm not ruling out Riley yet. The good thing about Pippen's murder is that it narrowed down our list of suspects quite a bit, assuming that the assassin and the rat are one in the same. It eliminates the three man soldiers, Burt, and most likely Datu and Kalani (I still hold out that it was possible for one of them to do it). It also means Bill could only be the thief, not the rat, as he is currently ashes. Also, if anyone had any theories that Tommy did it, (first listen through chapter 12, I did), well same story. I also stuck my "Kelly is the rat" flag (back when I hated her) in the ground long ago and I know we here support standing by your original theory.

The way I see the rat getting revealed though is through a conversation with Angel or Michael. Normal conversation, but then the Rat says something they shouldn't know, something about the Mallers or what happened during the radio conversation before the War that wasn't made common knowledge. I could see Michael suddenly catching on and being like, "How would you know that?" then the bulb lights up, slow dramatic music and "It was you!" dun, Dun, DUUUHHH!

[Grognaurd]

Well, Ra1th is going to hate me, but I can not rule out Angel.

Now that some are seeing red or have stopped reading already, I will again float my non-malicious rat. Just because the individual may have been in contact with the mallers does not mean that they conspired with the mallers to Pearl Harbour the tower.

So, the rat cuts contact with the mallers. Pippin shows up. The rat never owned up to the error in judgement making them appear more guilty than they are. The rat now ups the ante and commits murder of a perceived threat. Does the rat amp things up further? Kill Lewis and get away with it. How do Angel and Michael deal with that? After going that far, would the rat kill Angel or Michael to keep the secret.

Of courses the ultimate irony will be that We never learn who the rat is. Michael is writing down all he remembers to make sense of it. KC leaves it to us to make an opinion, but not enough facts to be conclusive.

In so many cases the coverup is worse than the crime.

[7oddisdead]

I'm starting to hope that we don't learn who the rat is til the end. Even though that will go against alot of the things I've been saying recently. All the characters who could possibly be the rat are far to important to the storyline to lose them, or lose faith in them. I suppose that's part if the plan though...damn

[Ra1th]

I'm starting to hope that we don't learn who the rat is til the end. Even though that will go against alot of the things I've been saying recently. All the characters who could possibly be the rat are far to important to the storyline to lose them, or lose faith in them. I suppose that's part if the plan though...damn

Just cause they r he rat doesn't mean thats the end of the story for them. There could be a stickpins about winning back he peoPles trust. Or a story about angel n michael hiding the traitor because the public wouldn't be able to handle the truth

[7oddisdead]

Just cause they r he rat doesn't mean thats the end of the story for them. There could be a stickpins about winning back he peoPles trust. Or a story about angel n michael hiding the traitor because the public wouldn't be able to handle the truth

while I agree with that...just in my opinion, that's an angle I would save for the final season. Build the tension....lots can happen in the meantime...as you stated

[Fisheye]

I really doubt the rat can be Kelly. Who is the top Ennemy for High detention prisoners ? obviously an Advocate lol. I really really doubt Kelly would do some deal with the Mallers, its against her ''personnality'' she's so ''on the rule'' and do the right thing (the last few episode at least)... Nan the traitor is maybe a minor character, that we didn't discover yet too much.I am thinking Steven. Don't like him, he's a BAD, power-freak man...
But what about if, the rat was Bill all the time, and the other events are from someone else. I am thinking maybe the death of Pippin is maybe not related to the Rat but more an act from someone who was scared that he might be a treat to the Tower (ex: taking a spot in the Helicopter).
Simple suggestion

[Osiris]

I really doubt the rat can be Kelly. Who is the top Ennemy for High detention prisoners ? obviously an Advocate lol. I really really doubt Kelly would do some deal with the Mallers, its against her ''personnality'' she's so ''on the rule'' and do the right thing (the last few episode at least)... Nan the traitor is maybe a minor character, that we didn't discover yet too much.I am thinking Steven. Don't like him, he's a BAD, power-freak man...
But what about if, the rat was Bill all the time, and the other events are from someone else. I am thinking maybe the death of Pippin is maybe not related to the Rat but more an act from someone who was scared that he might be a treat to the Tower (ex: taking a spot in the Helicopter).
Simple suggestion

Good thought. I like the direction it is taking.

[Ra1th]

I really doubt the rat can be Kelly. Who is the top Ennemy for High detention prisoners ? obviously an Advocate lol.

Defense attorneys are also the saviors of high detention prisoners.

[Fisheye]

Mhmm Touché! Snap...

[AdrianHD]

Nan the traitor is maybe a minor character, that we didn't discover yet too much.I am thinking Steven. Don't like him, he's a BAD, power-freak man...

I don't mean to be like the person who strikes down other people's theories. Hell, Michael might be zombie for all I know. I just really don't get the idea of Steven being a traitor being a valid thing.

When we go back, are we just supposed to know that this character who hasn't been introduced is going around calling the Mallers or such? The reason he is written in there is to make you think exactly what you're thinking, he's giving you a diversion. Steven is a character we all don't like, but he's been in a total of two scenes over the course of the series. I'm also willing to bet that if Kc did write Steven as the traitor, the massive bulk of us are going to be very disappointed in it. There's no negative to him. So what if he's the rat? Kick him out and we'll act like nothing happened. He has no importance. Whereas, if it's someone super close to us that many of us like, it'll blindside not only us but the characters too.
__
Also, I agree with you on Kelly. She has no reason to be the rat. She was played up as a bad character in the beginning, but ultimately just had a lack of focus. She was also one of the first to start attacking the Mallers in the War, I don't know what that benefits if she had an alliance with them. Yeah, it's be a great cover-up, but that led to the deaths of many Mallers, so they wouldn't be happy regardless.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Defense attorneys are also the saviors of high detention prisoners.

Ra1th,

Wasn't Kelly putting them away instead of keeping them out??

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I don't mean to be like the person who strikes down other people's theories. Hell, Michael might be zombie for all I know. I just really don't get the idea of Steven being a traitor being a valid thing.

When we go back, are we just supposed to know that this character who hasn't been introduced is going around calling the Mallers or such? The reason he is written in there is to make you think exactly what you're thinking, he's giving you a diversion. Steven is a character we all don't like, but he's been in a total of two scenes over the course of the series. I'm also willing to bet that if Kc did write Steven as the traitor, the massive bulk of us are going to be very disappointed in it. There's no negative to him. So what if he's the rat? Kick him out and we'll act like nothing happened. He has no importance. Whereas, if it's someone super close to us that many of us like, it'll blindside not only us but the characters too.
__
Also, I agree with you on Kelly. She has no reason to be the rat. She was played up as a bad character in the beginning, but ultimately just had a lack of focus. She was also one of the first to start attacking the Mallers in the War, I don't know what that benefits if she had an alliance with them. Yeah, it's be a great cover-up, but that led to the deaths of many Mallers, so they wouldn't be happy regardless.

Adrian,
I subscribe to the none of the above theory. I think it's a "Red Shirt." It doesn't have to be one of the main characters. He/she just has to have a good back story and have the motivation explained right. It's the ramifications and motivation that make what happened important. My opinion.

[Grognaurd]

I do not think we know one way or the other. She could be in Patent Law for all we know.

As to an "unknown" rat. I think it was Crow or Nick pointed out the mysterious third floor lurker.

Someone who lived on the third floor was on guard duty when the zombies "brought in the the dead". Angel says he lived on the third floor, but did not recall his name.
Shots were fired at the mallers from the third floor. No one in the tower bothered to run that lead down. I think it was a six rounds fired. I think it is also interesting to point out that we do know of a Colt .45 but I do not recall a reference to a semi-automatic or a revolver (collector's piece or replica).

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Art,

I think Kelly's career was proven, but I don't recall off the top of my head. I'm sure Nik will clear it up.
So you listened to the Angel and Mike Convo about the guy on duty from the 3rd floor huh?
I don't think Mike ran down the lead on that because once the bullets started flying it was forgotten. Once they start connecting the dots, then it'll be a big "oh yah!" moment.
I just think KC has left a few bread crumbs for us. We just have to pay attention is all. It's easier to do when you can listen to every episode one after the other and rewind when you hear something.

[Fishie]

I think that we're supposed to think that it is Steven. Obviously we are all going to dislike him, as he is the one who insisted that Lizzy be kicked out of the tower. He was also really determined not to go on guard duty while Pippin was there, which could be interpreted as him knowing that Pippin would recognise him when he saw him. However, if he turned out to be the rat I don't think that it would have the same emotional impact - so far we have not seen anything good about his character. It would be much more devastating for the rat to be someone that the other characters have trusted.

Kalani seems to be a more credible rat to me. Kalani was a pain in the ass at first, but he has redeemed himself in recent episodes. I don't remember Kalani and Pippin meeting face-to-face; Kalani was the one who originally saw him on the video monitors, and he was suspicious of him, he told the others to be careful because Pippin had a gun. I don't think Kalani actually went down to meet him at the gate with Angel and Datu though. If Steven really is a red herring, then it is probably also supposed to throw us off that Kalani and Datu went out on a mission just before the alarm went off; though the timing must have been incredibly close because when Michael was telling Angel to look for holes in people's stories, he specifically said to include Datu and Kalani in the grilling.
Also, if he is a Maller then maybe that is why Skittles recognised him... Skittles had said that he thought Angel and Kalani were 'the bad people' before he rescued them, and Kalani brushed him off quite brusquely when Skittles asked if he knew him.

It could also be Riley, however; when Michael and Angel rushed downstairs to check on Hope, they bumped into her in the stairwell. They asked if she had seen anyone, and she said no. She was one of the people with no alibi. Maybe she got drunk to prepare herself for killing in cold blood? Michael and Angel don't seem to have considered her as an option, maybe because they are close to her and trust her? Wouldn't it make it all the more devastating if she turned out to be the traitor, though, rather than it being a random character we haven't met before? However, she has been in the story since the first episode, which means she couldn't have lived with the Mallers after the outbreak happened. Perhaps she was in jail with them before everything happened, and has some sort of loyalty to them. We don't know anything about her history.

[AdrianHD]

Adrian,
I subscribe to the none of the above theory. I think it's a "Red Shirt." It doesn't have to be one of the main characters. He/she just has to have a good back story and have the motivation explained right. It's the ramifications and motivation that make what happened important. My opinion.

This is true also, but the backstory would have to expand quite a bit. From chapter 7 and onward with motivations to boot.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Well, whoever it is, they're going to have to fill in Pipp's story now as well as their own.

[ClearSights]

I am sticking with the rat is Steven, even though its so obvious and wouldn't be that much fun. I just think that KC has kept us guessing the rat for 20 chapters now and giving us better and better hints until the last chapter where he pretty much gave it away. After Steven is discovered as the rat, I believe Michael is read his journal and there will be a whole episode devoted to just the story of Steven and where he came from and how he ended up being the rat.

[moldysaturn]

so i know that this is brought up alot but i just noticed the comment that scratch said that they still had her(the rat) when Tardust asks about it. also apparently she has not been in contact for a while according to scratch.

the options(that we know of) are lizzy, pegs, kelly, or riley

it cant be lizzy because she is with them

pegs contacted scratch over latche's death and her dependent character at the beginning of the first season makes me think it isnt her.

kelly and riley are both suspect. kelly is an obvious answer because she tired to rebel early on but she has spent alot of time out with michael.

riley is more plausible. she is an alcoholic and we dont know really that much about her. she also would be a good suprise for who the rat is. unless im wrong she spent the most time at the tower and alot of time passes when we dont know what is happening with her. also she is seen at random places ie angel is startled by her on top of the tower. the only thing is that she went to save kalani. i could also see riley feeling regret and, while drunk, killing pippin because she regrets what she has done and is stopping another rat from entering the tower. perhaps whe is playing the mallers but doesnt want to tell the tower she used to be a rat.

i dont know, honestly it will probably be a random person

[Osiris]

I have to agree with you. Riley is the rat. She is also my least favourite character and I hope she's tossed to a rabid horde when they find her out. Follow the silencer.

[HardKor]

First of all, welcome!
I like your points on Riley. I'm on the "Riley is the rat" bandwagon myself and intend to stay on even if it goes off a cliff ;)
But one thing: The "we still have her bit from Scratch (20-3) seems to be talking about two people. Tardust asks "What about the other one?" and Scratch says "We still have her." Tar then asks "No the other one, the one already there (at the Tower)?" And Scratch says they haven't heard anything in awhile.
So it seems like the mallers have someone, a female someone in their possession. I'm thinking a hostage but there's not enough evidence to say for sure.

[Osiris]

Down with Riley! Burn the witch! Also, <3 Scratch.

[HardKor]

Down with Riley! Burn the witch! Also, <3 Scratch.

Here's where we differ my friend. I love Riley. She's been one of my favorite characters from the start. And I continue to love her despite her rattitude. Scratch, on the other hand, scares the living crap out of me. I'm intimidated just listening to her scream on the podcast. *shudders*

[Creem_Filling]

Kelly. She's a bitch and I don't want her anymore. Plus a couple of serious other points that I've stated in other threads.

[7oddisdead]

Back to page one...and still kalani....that smarmy @fgagsf

[Th3_T3ch]

At anybody thinks Scratch's comment of "We still have her", that comment is vague. Tar says afterword "No the one already there. No response?". Scratch says next "Not for a while". So the her could be anybody. 7oddisdead and zombiecupcake, thank you for opening your mind to the truth.

[7oddisdead]

/\Been saying kalani since before I joined here.
here's some more evidence

When hope came to the tower, we never heard kalani once mention anything of the situation. We know from what we are told that Kalani knew Samantha had a daughter named hope..and now she's in the same tower as him..so why no reaction? I know the helicopter search cannot totally pre-occupy all of his time

Skittles recognized him...while we do not know where skittles is from...based on this either skittles is not from the other tower or kalani isn't. And how could skittles know him and he not know skittles?...

We see his true colors just before he and burt leave for the hospital...while he didn't lie about he and angels experience with the big one, he did skew the story in such a way to serve his purpose..how many other times could he have done that

[Adventureless_Hero]

Alright, my dear friend lvmetndr pointed out a very interesting point in what could be another nail in Kelly's coffin. Going back to the end of 7-3 and the start of 8-1, we hear Scratch and Latch approach the Tower. Kelly was on guard when this occured and was supposedly asleep. When Angel bangs on the security room door he finds Kelly yawning and claiming that all she heard was his banging.

This could be a ruse. She may have written in her journal, to go along with the ploy, that she fell asleep while reading the book Peggs bought her. This could have been the moment, the first contact Kelly had with the Mallers; she could have contacted them via radio before thier approach to the building.

I thought it was a good theory worth mentioning.

[Grognaurd]

RE Kalani <br />
<br />
Remember, things are really moving fast. Hope arrives in the AM. Later, Kalani is put in charge of the tower as the main characters go after the mallers. He is then tasked with...

[Grognaurd]

So who is Burt talking to?

He is really repressing some anger with Saul, I could see him trying to tamp it down if he was talking to Tanya. Maybe Michael. Would he suppress it for people he does not know?

Second, he talks about how the other team was out looking for a copter as if the listener was not familiar with that.

[7oddisdead]

:P

Different ways of seeing the same story...in my mind it all makes sense. In yours,it seems completely ludicrous. I'm perfectly ok with that....

[Lexter]

I been thinking but I'm not sure, all I know is that it could be someone that has not been maned jet.

[Grognaurd]

Nah, not ridiculous, but someone has to stand up for us middle age fat guys

[Th3_T3ch]

Two things, Burt is most likely talking to Micheal, Tanya already made all the journals digital and no one is writing in them anymore, other than Micheal and Lizzy. The second thing is that the rat has to be someone who knew Angel and Hope would be in the guard room OR they planned it to be in the morning for some reason, leaving the scene of the crime?, and just ran into Hope and knew that she was blind. That narrows it down to :Steven, Kelly, Kalani, Riley, and Datu (nearly impossible). I leave Kalani on the list because we know he is headed downstairs when the alarm goes off, Datu is only on the list because there is plenty of time for him to run up stairs cut the line (he is the maintenance man and should know where just about everything is) kill pippin and give himself the time to flee by shooting the radio. I, personally, see that the rat is someone who would be out of the tower and shot the tower to try and give themselves an alibi.

So after going threw it again, I have a smaller more accurate list.

Kelly-(likely)
It is popular belief that Kelly was once in a trial with a Maller. What we do know about Kelly is that she was babysitting her nephew when the outbreak happened. Her niece was killed in the original outbreak. Tommy was killed in the War. Kelly was drunk at the party. Kelly was at the tower when Pippin was shot, she was also one of the first people to show up at the guard room. Kelly was the "specialist" for Micheal's interrogation of Pippin. Kelly had just gotten off of guard duty when Pippin was killed, she was also chatting it up with Pippin.
Speculation: If Kelly is the rat then she might have talked to him in code during her turn as guard. She might have been diplomatic when she told Micheal her opinion on Pippin's story.
Holes in the Theory: Kelly would have had to pass Riley on the way to kill Pippin. Kelly became devoted to the tower after Tommy's death.

Kalani-(possible)
Kalani was found in the Arena. What we know about Kalani is that he was at LAX. Kalani says he is from Hawaii and was rescued by the Other tower. Kalani was on guard duty the day of the party and the War. He knows how to fly a helicopter and a plane, not at the same time. He knows about helicopters. He had just left or was on his way to leaving the Tower when Pippin was killed.
Speculation: If Kalani's story is false, then he has a high probability of being a Maller. He SAYS he had been in the other tower only a few days before it was attacked and then he was at the tower two days before it was attacked. Kalani says he flew into LAX, that is awful close to the Strip Mall and I doubt that they would have missed a plane flying in the air toward them. Kalani, as far as we know, never talked to Pippin. It would have been advantaguous of him to shoot the radio after killing Pippin. Giving him enough time to leave the tower. It also took him and Datu an hour to get to LAX.
Holes in the Theory: Kalani actually knows helicopters. He isn't afraid of a fight, and he was a brown-noser to the leader.

Steven-(likely)
Steven has been a prick since we've been introduced to him. What we know about Steven is that he got Lizzy kicked out of the Tower. Steven also didn't want to do guard duty with Pippin in the room. Steven was sent to the roof when Pippin was killed. Michael says he doesn't trust him. Steven knows that Angel and Hope are in the guard room. Was on guard duty after Lewis was framed.
Speculation: Steven is an easy way out of a hard problem. Plot wise, it is easier for Kc to introduce a person that will become the rat then it is to work the rat into a character.
Holes in the Theory:... I haven't found any.

Datu-(nearly impossible)
Datu is the maintenance man. What we know of Datu is that he is Philippians, and loves Hope like a daughter. Datu was reportedly down in the motorpool when Pippin was shot.
Speculation: Datu was "sick" at the beginning of the party and was up and around during the fire.
Holes in the Theory: Datu was found in the Tower HOURS after the outbreak. He was in the US to get money for his family.

Riley-(not likely)
Riley is a pro archer, chef. What we know of Riley is that she is French, she had just gotten back from the Arena when the war had happened. She was drunk when Pippin first arrived, and was the only other person that was near the guard room when Pippin was killed.
Speculation: Riley was mostly sober at the hospital, which is only hours after the murder of Pippin. Riley has been really shady since the beginning.
Holes in the Theory: Riley was found on top of a flower shop hours after the outbreak. She has been loyal to the Tower since day one.

Red Shirt- (We all don't want this)
Everybody wants the rat to be one of the main characters. It is however possible that the rat is a red shirt.

[den1981]

I have come up with the theory that the next episode will reveal the rat. But only if they have sided with the tower. I think when the rat is told (by scratch) about what Saul is going to do, the rat will reveal their identity to Michael to stop Saul. However they wont be able to warn Pegs in time and Datu will die.

[StepLaugh]

This would go in this thread right here. It was kinda hidden. http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?1337-Who-s-The-Rat-v2.0

[Thorn]

I think it was Kelly based on the fact she was trying to get her own nephew thrown out of the tower, she was behaving in a way that raised suspicion and was easily the most unlikable person in the tower in my opinion. While yes it is a standard writing ploy to misdirect your focus and attention by creating an easily hate-able character and then making the rat/mole someone else... she was in a real hurry to get her nephew safely out of harms way.

By that I mean the raid on the tower was about to happen, she had to know there was a good chance her nephew would be killed in the raid.

What better way to protect him than to get him out of the building?

Well her or our French friend who was acting so oddly just after Pip showed up.

[nate of the dead]

I originally thought that Riley is the rat but after listening to both season one and season two (minus finale) I think that the traitor is either Kelly or Steven. Back in season 1 Riley, Angel, Datu, Kalani, Burt, Saul, and Michael were out of the tower. Michael , Burt, and Saul were rescuing Angel, Riley, Datu, and Kalani from the Arena. It was when they came back from the tower that they found that the ammo and food had been stolen.

That leaves Lizzy, Pegs, Kelly, Bill, Steven, and Tommy. Tommy and Bill are dead so I eliminate them since they couldn't have killed Pippin. I cant completely rule out Kelly because she was interrogating Pippin for a while and he didnt seem to see her as a threat but I think that Pippin may have not known what the traitor looked like. He may have only known that there was a traitor in the tower and would have only known who it was when they were going to kill him.

Lizzy was with the mallers when Pippin was killed so I rule her out and I don't think that she would betray the tower. That leaves us with Pegs and Steven. I think that would be a wicked curve ball if it ended up being Pegs but I think that the rat is Steven. He was in the tower when the ammo and food were stolen. He didn't want to guard Pippen because he "got the creeps" from (not sure if that was the exact quote) him. I think Steven didn't want to be in the room while everyone was interrogating him because Pippin would have recognized him. He waited for the right moment to trigger the alarm and shot Pippin so that no one would know that he was the traitor.

I can't wait for the finale and I hope that they let us know who the traitor is.

[cupcakezombie]

Seems like I might be right. :)

[daredevil]

the rat is a girl, Scratch said so, I think it's Pegs.

That would explain the reason Pegs was so sad after killing Latch, because she never meant for him to die, she stopped liking the mallers half way through chapter 12 and then almost instantly turned into Badass pegs

[HardKor]

Good call @cupcakezombie!
It seems as though the "her" Scratch mentioned in 20-3 was Hannah and she was being used a leverage to keep Kalani in line. I may have been wrong about Riley being the rat but I can take comfort that I at least got that part right :p

[7oddisdead]

heres the thing...and we now have to wait a long time to learn more info. but my thinking this whole time has been "only believe half of kalani's stories"..that being said..assumeing he did land at lax..then this hannah person was with him..if im remembering correctly, he did say three of them survived..not sure what to make of that yet..but we'll see, i suppose

[daredevil]

I don't think Kalani was the mole, because if he was the Mallers would know the Tower (They will always be the tower) had a Helicopter.

[GD_Elite]

I think that he arrived from Hawaii was pretty much confirmed because there was a crashed Hawaiin Airlines at LAX.
Did he go to the other tower? I think so because Samantha might have known him (possible)
Obviously got caught by the zombs. How come Samantha got taken and not him?

When did he get contacted by the mallers? hmmm...
When did Hannah get caught?

Still room to theorize here.