Chapter 20 Part 3 Discussion

[nikvoodoo]

Less than 12 hours away from more We're Alive awesomeness! Let's keep it civil this time or else you'll get the hose again...and if that don't work you'll get the shovel:) ;)


Kc promises this is going to be awesome!! I can't wait!

[itsallgoodie]

Dear voodoo, maybe dont leak the chapters this time.

[nikvoodoo]

Dear voodoo, maybe dont leak the chapters this time.
It wasn't me galdernit! It was that boxxy lady! And she fooled us all and we all got Rick Rolled....on April Fool's Day no less!!

[Joosbawx]

don't believe him...everything on the Internet is true!

except for the cake.

[itsallgoodie]

It wasn't me galdernit! It was that boxxy lady! And she fooled us all and we all got Rick Rolled....on April Fool's no less!!

well rick rolling is so last month, everyone now is still sorta rickrolling LINK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD2LRROpph0)


don't believe him...everything on the Internet is true!

except for the cake.

its comforting to know that the cake is still a lie...but its so delicious and moist.

[Joosbawx]

the following should be added to the tower rules:

rickrollers will be shot on sight.
anyone posting Rebecca black will be shot twice, and left to die as both shots will be dedicated to a respective knee cap.

also, in reply to the above, 'moist' is an amazing, amazing word, its my favorite word in the whole world and i hear its voodoos too.

*** gah! I've been post-jacked! someone, stop that man with the sodden pastries!

[fraggot]

I hope todays episode is.....AWESOME

That is all :)

[AdrianHD]

Ungh, that was really hard to listen to. I can imagine being in Saul's shoes.

Anyway, the build-up was awesome, I'm not sure what to expect or where the Mallers left to. It's not the colony, the way Lizzy sounded, she made it seem like it was familiar territory.

Anyone else still freaking out that Saul's not going to last two seconds because of his injuries?

Stupid fun fact: This is the only WA part that ends on an even minute.

[j0be]

Anyone notice that Lizzy was "sick".

<devilsadvocate>Maybe morning sickness*</devilsadvocate>

*I know she was going through something very traumatic, it's just that it was the first thing I thought of, as my wife has horrible morning sickness during her pregnancies.

[AdrianHD]

Anyone notice that Lizzy was "sick".
<devilsadvocate>Maybe morning sickness</devilsadvocate>

... Went way over my head... Is the Tower going to turn into a sitcom? You got the funny dad, the blonde mom, and the vet granny.

[Rock Daddy]

Whoa... and Whoa! Great episode. I was gonna puke myself at that one point... But... where the hell are the Mallers now that made Lizzy sound so hopeless?? Back in the prison??? That would be impossible to break into! Damn it's gonna be a long wait :D

[Rock Daddy]

Anyone notice that Lizzy was "sick".

<devilsadvocate>Maybe morning sickness</devilsadvocate>

OMG. I didn't even think of that!!!

[j0be]

But... where the hell are the Mallers now that made Lizzy sound so hopeless?? Back in the prison??? That would be impossible to break into!

It's definitely somewhere she recognized, and she did go past Eastern Bay with Burt and Saul.

[Cutting-T]

Well, remember in an earlier episode it was said by Latch and Scratch that Durai had 'plans' for all the oil tankers, maybe this 'new' place has something to do with that.
Also I think that the mallers are keeping zombies as 'pets', because scratch said something along the lines of "if you don't shut-up I'll feed you to the sisters"... Its sounds like they are being kept in cages so that the mallers can feed people to them or somthing similar.

Intruiging

[Dtran]

While listening to this chapter i held my breathe. Fist were clinched, stomach in a huge knot. Congrats to the cast and crew on yet another amazing episode.

[Dyehardjr]

Well, remember in an earlier episode it was said by Latch and Scratch that Durai had 'plans' for all the oil tankers, maybe this 'new' place has something to do with that.
Also I think that the mallers are keeping zombies as 'pets', because scratch said something along the lines of "if you don't shut-up I'll feed you to the sisters"... Its sounds like they are being kept in cages so that the mallers can feed people to them or somthing similar.

Intruiging

This new place sounds familiar... possibly, the mallers got the same idea as the Tower group, and used the tankers to carry a lot of equipment to their new 'home' somewhere far away. It would suck though if they went to Fort Erwin too, eh'?

[Cutting-T]

This new place sounds familiar... possibly, the mallers got the same idea as the Tower group, and used the tankers to carry a lot of equipment to their new 'home' somewhere far away. It would suck though if they went to Fort Erwin too, eh'?
It would take them hours to travel there, so its unlikely. Do you think soon we will find out Angel's 'Origins' with the (now defunct-name) 'Mallers'

[Kc]

"if you don't shut-up I'll feed you to the sisters"
It's a prison term for a type of inmate...

[Dyehardjr]

It would take them hours to travel there, so its unlikely. Do you think soon we will find out Angel's 'Origins' with the (now defunct-name) 'Mallers'

I have no idea how they will tie Angel and The Mallers together. We just have to wait and see, huh?
How do you think they are related?

[Cutting-T]

It's a prison term for a type of inmate...

Thanks


I have no idea how they will tie Angel and The Mallers together. We just have to wait and see, huh?
How do you think they are related?

I think that Angel must have been a petty criminal and/or street-racer who did dirty work, it said that only the Hard criminals went to Eastern Bay, so maybe Angel 'worked' for Scratch at some point dealing drugs or something.

[j0be]

It's a prison term for a type of inmate...

This is in reference to the Shawshank Redemption. The Sisters are a nasty prison gang with a particular love of raping new inmates.
Youtube Clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBlJ9N7Ehgk)

[Meeks]

Another case of "thanks for everything KC, but I hate you for ending it like that" for me.

I loved Saul in this episode. So much emotion. Which brings me to think that maybe blondie IS pregnant, like someone pointed to earlier. The vomiting, and her going crazy after they un-cuffed her, could be hormones, never know.

Can't wait for chapter 21 and the live reading now.

[Rock Daddy]

Ew. Yeah. I know it's not a pleasant topic, but I know a lot of people are probably wondering what kind of "hook up" system is happening with the mallers now that they are out of prison. I mean... Scratch came from there... so... they have women inmates amongst their ranks? I guess???

[j0be]

Ew. Yeah. I know it's not a pleasant topic, but I know a lot of people are probably wondering what kind of "hook up" system is happening with the mallers now that they are out of prison. I mean... Scratch came from there... so... they have women inmates amongst their ranks? I guess???

When we first met Scratch, she asked for Lizzy to "do something for us".

[Kc]

Keep in mind Scratch was NOT in Eastern Bay, when things went down.

She was on the outside after Latch took the wrap. This was not a co-ed prison.

[Rock Daddy]

Keep in mind Scratch was NOT in Eastern Bay, when things went down.

She was on the outside after Latch took the wrap. This was not a co-ed prison.

Oh yeeaaah! Thanks Kc. I forgot about the "switch". So interesting...

[Meeks]

Another thing that really got to me, when they said how somebody got badly burned... kinda triggered in my mind that someone may NOT be dead. I could be completely wrong, but gonna re-listen to it later.

[WERE EVILA]

is the 'sisters' a shawshank ref?
at first my fav soud effect was the fart sound of the silencers a few chapters back, but now i think its the puke sound.
i think angel will end up being the link to them finding the mallers and lizzy.

[HardKor]

Anyone notice that Lizzy was "sick".

<devilsadvocate>Maybe morning sickness*</devilsadvocate>


Well, we did wonder if title "About Last Night" had something to do with the consequences of a "hook up." And the more I think about it, this makes a lot of sense.

[Rock Daddy]

Well, we did wonder if title "About Last Night" had something to do with the consequences of a "hook up." And the more I think about it, this makes a lot of sense.

Good call. A lot of the residents we're "Up Late" doing something... Including Lizzy. That's why she fell asleep in the first place. But then if it was immediate... the sickness wouldn't be pregnancy...

[yarri]

my 2 cents: Saul and Lizzie have been together about what??? 2 months 1.5 months.. Long enough to be really tired and really sick if she were.. ahem.. and saul were busy repopulating..


Morning sickness usually starts (if at all) between the 4th and 8th week after conception. On average morning sickness lasts until sometime between the 14th and the 22nd week.

[Ra1th]

it was weird that lizzy was crying the whole time, i mean before the rape issue came up. I was always under the impression she was extremely tough, but then again maybe she saw what was coming, well she lucked out anyway. Sucks Blaire had to cry all weekend for the episode :p.

it's also weird that she was throwing up all over the place, i mean it wasnt just once, it wasnt just twice, she was continuously throwing up throughout the episode, i think she threw up like 4 or 5 times. jeez how does that even work? shouldnt her stomach have been cleared out by like puking session part 2? maybe J0be hit the nail on the head with the pregnancy thing.

hey, just to go off topic for a sec, anyone else notice how angel jumped on saul for yelling at riley? i'm telling u the double meaning of the title is that Angel and Riley hooked up.

Man awesome set up episode, next one will be awesome, Michael, Angel, Saul, Burt ALL IN ONE EPISODE!!!! soldier madness, the tower's full on offensive force, literally all of the tower's best fighters are here, including riley, oh man i cant wait for the next one

[Adventureless_Hero]

I think there is potential for Lizzie to be pregnant, though it's hard to say as she was going through a very traumatic experience that would make any person who doesn't like to get raped puke. I...

[j0be]

Morning sickness usually starts (if at all) between the 4th and 8th week after conception. On average morning sickness lasts until sometime between the 14th and the 22nd week.

What sucks for my wife is that her's starts right about the same time as everyone else, but lasts the ENTIRE TIME. And she get's it daily+. Sometimes up to 4 times a day.

[Ra1th]

My guess is she's being taken to Eastern Bay. Oh...and Burt's going to die. :-( His sacrifice will be his redeeming act.

it could be saul, dont forget romeo and juliet, saul's jumping around making all sorts of stupid decisions without thinking them through right now, if angel/michael/burt/riley arent able to calm him down and keep him out of it, then he might just do something really really stupid.

[Ra1th]

Morning sickness usually starts (if at all) between the 4th and 8th week after conception. On average morning sickness lasts until sometime between the 14th and the 22nd week.

ohmygod, 4-8 weeks... THE PARTY

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

"10% of what i had was actually legal...." ROFL!
Great episode! Two places I can actually think Lizzy would be scared of: The Arena and the Prison. If it's the prison, why move BACK and why NOW??
With all the stuff they've pilfered, they can probably repair any damage to the gates and make it a nastier place to get into.

The Arena: They've been proactive in clearing out area and now the arena is "infestation" free. I noticed and assumed that Scratch was driving solo. Hmm....
Still nada on "The Rat" unless it has something to do with the other woman Scratch mentioned. Time to look at the map again!
I can't believe they were going for a full frontal assault with 5 people even with a .50 cal. That's balls to the wall right there!

Was Paco the cat Scratch messed up after the tanker issue?

[Kc]

Was Paco the cat Scratch messed up after the tanker issue?
That was Charley (I forget the exact spelling)

[Ra1th]

"10% of what i had was actually legal...." ROFL!
Great episode! Two places I can actually think Lizzy would be scared of: The Arena and the Prison. If it's the prison, why move BACK and why NOW??
With all the stuff they've pilfered, they can probably repair any damage to the gates and make it a nastier place to get into.

The Arena: They've been proactive in clearing out area and now the arena is "infestation" free. I noticed and assumed that Scratch was driving solo. Hmm....
Still nada on "The Rat" unless it has something to do with the other woman Scratch mentioned. Time to look at the map again!
I can't believe they were going for a full frontal assault with 5 people even with a .50 cal. That's balls to the wall right there!

Was Paco the cat Scratch messed up after the tanker issue?

whoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoa holdup

the arena was cleared out? you mean the arena as in, the zombie stronghold thousands of zombies, LED BY INK the godzombie arena? and if we are talking about the same arena, would lizzy even know what it looks like? she wasnt on that mission to save angel/riley/datu was she?

i think hte prison makes sense, cause during the war, durai had said that the mall was falling apart, and i mean a mall seems like a bad place to stay long term, maybe they are moving back to eastern bay OR OR OR plot twist, they moved to fort irwin, and beat the tower to it, hey why not? they think the same way the tower does, they'll arrive at the same conclusion. The tower's been abuzz about fort irwin for a while, maybe her groan was that they'd been beaten to the punch. but then again did they really travel 2 or 3 hours to make it to fort irwin, i dunno

im wondering what saul is doing upright still, he's a threat to the whole damn mission as he is right now, whyyy michael, why wont u beat him on the head and tie him to a pole. (yeah angel wouldnt rly do this kinda thing).

[Cutting-T]

it was weird that lizzy was crying the whole time, i mean before the rape issue came up. I was always under the impression she was extremely tough, but then again maybe she saw what was coming, well she lucked out anyway. Sucks Blaire had to cry all weekend for the episode :p.

it's also weird that she was throwing up all over the place, i mean it wasnt just once, it wasnt just twice, she was continuously throwing up throughout the episode, i think she threw up like 4 or 5 times. jeez how does that even work? shouldnt her stomach have been cleared out by like puking session part 2? maybe J0be hit the nail on the head with the pregnancy thing.

hey, just to go off topic for a sec, anyone else notice how angel jumped on saul for yelling at riley? i'm telling u the double meaning of the title is that Angel and Riley hooked up.

Man awesome set up episode, next one will be awesome, Michael, Angel, Saul, Burt ALL IN ONE EPISODE!!!! soldier madness, the tower's full on offensive force, literally all of the tower's best fighters are here, including riley, oh man i cant wait for the next one

Now all we need is some Skittles and some Ink.


This is in reference to the Shawshank Redemption. The Sisters are a nasty prison gang with a particular love of raping new inmates.
Youtube Clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBlJ9N7Ehgk)

Thanks

Nobody has actually said the obvious yet, and that is: WELL DONE K.C.!
This Episode was a nice change of pace from normal and was a very good attempt at a much darker episode than usual, I actually felt slightly physically repulsed, very well done.

This seems to be leading up to 'The War 2.0', and hopefully in season 3 we will learn where the Zombies came from, who the eff Ink is and what happened when Michael broke his arm.


whoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoa holdup

the arena was cleared out? you mean the arena as in, the zombie stronghold thousands of zombies, LED BY INK the godzombie arena? and if we are talking about the same arena, would lizzy even know what it looks like? she wasnt on that mission to save angel/riley/datu was she?

i think hte prison makes sense, cause during the war, durai had said that the mall was falling apart, and i mean a mall seems like a bad place to stay long term, maybe they are moving back to eastern bay OR OR OR plot twist, they moved to fort irwin, and beat the tower to it, hey why not? they think the same way the tower does, they'll arrive at the same conclusion. The tower's been abuzz about fort irwin for a while, maybe her groan was that they'd been beaten to the punch. but then again did they really travel 2 or 3 hours to make it to fort irwin, i dunno

im wondering what saul is doing upright still, he's a threat to the whole damn mission as he is right now, whyyy michael, why wont u beat him on the head and tie him to a pole. (yeah angel wouldnt rly do this kinda thing).

If that is the case, then they would be no where near the Tower, however I have a feeling the Mole may soon be revealed.

[Ra1th]

Now all we need is some Skittles and some Ink.



Thanks

Nobody has actually said the obvious yet, and that is: WELL DONE K.C.!
This Episode was a nice change of pace from normal and was a very good attempt at a much darker episode than usual, I actually felt slightly physically repulsed, very well done.

This seems to be leading up to 'The War 2.0', and hopefully in season 3 we will learn where the Zombies came from, who the eff Ink is and what happened when Michael broke his arm.



If that is the case, then they would be no where near the Tower, however I have a feeling the Mole may soon be revealed.

mmm but who would do the revealing? who's left at the tower that know of the mole? that's datu, kalani, kelly, (all serious susupects) and pegs, i think thats it, maybe pegs will go all nancy drew on this but id rather the action stick with assault team.

AND HELL YES WAR 2.0! we just need Ink, and the colony up in this, and it'll be mass chaos

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Ra1th,

I don't think she was there, but she was "THERE" if you know what i mean. I'd think that everyone got a pretty detailed story about that arena. I must have missed something because everyone knew about HOPE and I don't recall her name being mentioned in detail that even Kelly would be hip to who she is just by hearing a name.

It's just my theory, but I think the Mallers have been clearing up the area. It's the only way I can see them traveling around wily nily.
I think Ft Irwin is too far for the time they've traveled and the distance a person can walk at night and try to stay hidden. Lizzie did say she planned to go back after a day or two.

The prison would be the natural assumption and the most logical. Since when has KC done anything logical... er, what WE think is at least. ROFL! I'm going to start calling him the Walter Payton of the podcast world.. we think he's going one direction and JUKE! Nope, the other way he goes. leaving us sprawled on the 20 yard line.

[j0be]

If that is the case, then they would be no where near the Tower, however I have a feeling the Mole may soon be revealed.

Yeah, I just added Fort Irwin to the Google Map (http://bit.ly/eo13wK), and it's about 3 hours away during real life conditions

[nikvoodoo]

Kc, you are a sick and demented man. Great episode!

Also remember something else: Lizzy is from L.A. There is the slight possibility that where they are is somewhere she knows from before the outbreak. What could cause such a reaction? I don't have any good guesses at the moment. But I'll throw a log on the fire anyway: LAX. If she sees an airport, she might assume the worst which is she's being flown somewhere by the Mallers and then she'll really be screwed.

As for the Mallers going to Fort Erwin: The roads are jammed leading out of the city. I don't think that's where they got off to. And if they did do that, the Tower people will be able to follow their trail very easily.

I, like others, vote for a knockered up Lizzy. While it could very easily be explained away as the situation she was in at the time (who could honestly blame her), I think her reaction of surprise to throwing up is a strong clue.


Another thing that really got to me, when they said how somebody got badly burned... kinda triggered in my mind that someone may NOT be dead. I could be completely wrong, but gonna re-listen to it later.
If you're thinking of Latch, I'd say it's probably not the case. Latch is dead. Scratch's reaction to him being shot, and reaction to Angel trying to return his body seem like it's a strong indicator (or a 99.99% assurance) that Latch is dead.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

LAX??! dude you suck for adding that twist! Great addition to the theory! Now I really need to look at the map to see how close that is to their territory.

Ok, open bids for where to go on the Voodoo lounge prediction thread.
Put me down for the Arena.. just because

[Rock Daddy]

Also remember something else: Lizzy is from L.A. There is the slight possibility that where they are is somewhere she knows from before the outbreak. What could cause such a reaction? I don't have any good guesses at the moment. But I'll throw a log on the fire anyway: LAX. If she sees an airport, she might assume the worst which is she's being flown somewhere by the Mallers and then she'll really be screwed.

I like this idea... And even more interestingly, who would be their pilot?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I like this idea... And even more interestingly, who would be their pilot?

Durai!!! that dude is probably like the swiss army knife of prisoners! LOL

[j0be]

If you're thinking of Latch, I'd say it's probably not the case. Latch is dead. Scratch's reaction to him being shot, and reaction to Angel trying to return his body seem like it's a strong indicator (or a 99.99% assurance) that Latch is dead.

The interesting thing about this is that the person Tardust was referring to was named Johnny.

[nikvoodoo]

LAX??! dude you suck for adding that twist! Great addition to the theory! Now I really need to look at the map to see how close that is to their territory.

Ok, open bids for where to go on the Voodoo lounge prediction thread.
Put me down for the Arena.. just because

Noted my good sir. I'm sure the location will be in the next installment.

LAX is located, as I think...Njhellfire I think it was who initially pointed it out??...right next to where the fueling depot is in the Maller territory. So it's not too far off the realm of possible that LAX is the location.

[Kc]

The interesting thing about this is that the person Tardust was referring to was named Johnny.
He was not referring to Latch. Latch is dead. Dead dead.
Oh, and Fort Irwin is 4 hours in decent conditions. Google maps has that time wrong... just saying ;)

[nikvoodoo]

The interesting thing about this is that the person Tardust was referring to was named Johnny.

I caught that too. And I stopped and thought about it for a second, but I'm going with Pegs description of Latch's eyes (12-3 ~10:30), Angel's ID of the body (via the ring), and Scratch's reaction during the War and over the Radio.

I can't think of any scenario where Latch can be alive. Feel free to prove me wrong, please! But I can't wrap my head around any way he could possibly have survived.


EDIT: I Hate it when Kc sneaks in the final word while I'm typing my epic responses :p ;)

[j0be]

He was not referring to Latch. Latch is dead. Dead dead.
Oh, and Fort Irwin is 4 hours in decent conditions. Google maps has that time wrong... just saying ;)

I was pretty sure it wasn't the same person. That would have had to have been a serious phoenix moment for that to happen.
Never been to California, so I couldn't at all ballpark base on my own experience.


(post #200)

[Kc]

I was pretty sure it wasn't the same person. That would have had to have been a serious phoenix moment for that to happen.
Never been to California, so I couldn't at all ballpark base on my own experience.
I know. I just add a few bumpers to keep from going off the road ;)

[j0be]

I know. I just add a few bumpers to keep from going off the road ;)

I prefer the bowling image. :P

[Cutting-T]

I caught that too. And I stopped and thought about it for a second, but I'm going with Pegs description of Latch's eyes (12-3 ~10:30), Angel's ID of the body (via the ring), and Scratch's reaction during the War and over the Radio.

I can't think of any scenario where Latch can be alive. Feel free to prove me wrong, please! But I can't wrap my head around any way he could possibly have survived.


EDIT: I Hate it when Kc sneaks in the final word while I'm typing my epic responses :p ;)

I think you found the loophole yourself, the body they found was unrecognisable: How much would you trust a simple ring?

[j0be]

I think you found the loophole yourself, the body they found was unrecognisable: How much would you trust a simple ring?

I'm going to just trust KC on this one.


Latch is dead. Dead dead.

[Rock Daddy]

I'm going to just trust KC on this one.

Yeah. I don't think Kc would ever go the way of a bad sitcom and write Latch back in as somehow surviving the bullet wounds, the fall, and the flames. But then again, when he throws us a curve, I always tend to say, "Oh yeah... that makes sense."

[ObamaCat]

Wow fantastic episode. Great job KC :)

Liking the theories going around. Lizzie being prego seems fairly plausible, but I'm fairly skeptical of the Mallers going to LAX. I've only been a couple times, but I don't think it would be any easier to hold down than a mall (correct me if I'm wrong though). And what would be the point of flying away with Lizzy? It would be easier just to bump her off than go to all the trouble of taking her with them. What would they gain from that?

On a sidenote it's going to be one hell of a wait. April 25 :(

[Dyehardjr]

Wow fantastic episode. Great job KC :)

Liking the theories going around. Lizzie being prego seems fairly plausible, but I'm fairly skeptical of the Mallers going to LAX. I've only been a couple times, but I don't think it would be any easier to hold down than a mall (correct me if I'm wrong though). And what would be the point of flying away with Lizzy? It would be easier just to bump her off than go to all the trouble of taking her with them. What would they gain from that?

On a sidenote it's going to be one hell of a wait. April 25 :(

Ya, but it's worth it. I would rather wait that long for We're Alive, and maybe longer, than for them to stop making podcasts all together.

[Ra1th]

Wow fantastic episode. Great job KC :)

Liking the theories going around. Lizzie being prego seems fairly plausible, but I'm fairly skeptical of the Mallers going to LAX. I've only been a couple times, but I don't think it would be any easier to hold down than a mall (correct me if I'm wrong though). And what would be the point of flying away with Lizzy? It would be easier just to bump her off than go to all the trouble of taking her with them. What would they gain from that?

On a sidenote it's going to be one hell of a wait. April 25 :(

wait you mean the 18th right? they take One week off between episodes right? or am i having a total brain fart and its been two weeks

[Pikepaw]

Mallers are going to die, people are going to die hardcore! Very well done, the background music was masterful. I am feeling pretty much what Saul is feeling, I wish I could just jump in the show and kill them all. Somehow though, I knew from Lizzie's reaction when they arrived at the Mallers' headquarters that they were no longer at the strip mall.

Though I cringed, it would have been surprising if a Maller hadn't attempted to rape Lizzie, I mean she is pretty and they are sick murderers and rapists. Or she is a woman and the only women they know would probably stab them for trying. I was somewhat expecting Scratch to Prison Lesbian rape Lizzie...of course that could still happen *cringe*...on the other hand that might just disturb me too much

[ObamaCat]

wait you mean the 18th right? they take One week off between episodes right? or am i having a total brain fart and its been two weeks

Because of the live event the next episode isn't going to be until the 25th. It was mentioned at the very end of the podcast.

[Pikepaw]

It's a prison term for a type of inmate...

Must Google it now...every little bit of information...

[Charlie]

Ungh, that was really hard to listen to.

Right there with you. Very painful listening. Amazing performances and great story telling, but oh so painful.

[AdrianHD]

wait you mean the 18th right? they take One week off between episodes right? or am i having a total brain fart and its been two weeks

There's an extra week off because of the live event.

Edit... wow... super ninja'd because it wasn't showing any replies... disregard this.

[Mikethebassist]

That was a really really emotional episode. I was having a bad day to begin with and wow, It didn't make me feel any better. But Great episode, and as always, the music was great as well.

[WERE EVILA]

i like how there is a constant evolution in the storytelling, we have ben taken by the hand and guided through a george romaro lanscape filled with zombies and an newly apocoliptic landscape. soonafter, our leader pulls us into a cormac mcarthy style survival tail. the bonds grow stronger and we fall in love with each person we are introduced to. now we are no longer led, or pulled, but pushed into the pit of a quintin tarintino chaos. our hearts are twisted and wrenched, same as our guts, as we listen to the pain and tourture of our loved ones. our new family. all we can do is shout at the screen or clinch our mp3 player with white nukled fear. then we have to wait another two weeks to find out if we can breath again.

[NoReality95]

This was a great episode story driving wise and emotion, but DAMN KC! I felt so scared for Lizzy when that guy, *shiver* I agree with Saul I don't even want to think about it. Only thing that is strange now is where are the Mallers? I think that maybe they got killed by and attack or packed up and left, it just seems strange to me they'd all just leave. Also who's this "Johnny", If Latch was burned like Angel said, that means they burned him alive and he survived that whole time in the car, it's just freaky.

[nikvoodoo]

This was a great episode story driving wise and emotion, but DAMN KC! I felt so scared for Lizzy when that guy, *shiver* I agree with Saul I don't even want to think about it. Only thing that is strange now is where are the Mallers? I think that maybe they got killed by and attack or packed up and left, it just seems strange to me they'd all just leave. Also who's this "Johnny", If Latch was burned like Angel said, that means they burned him alive and he survived that whole time in the car, it's just freaky.

Johnny is not Latch. Kc has confirmed this. Latch was shot and killed by Pegs and his body fell onto the pile of furniture he was climbing up on. The pile of furniture was set on fire later on during the War with Latch still on top of it. I'm not quite sure what car you're talking about though

[NoReality95]

By "car" I meant that if it was Latch he would've had to act dead till Angel dropped him off. But since it's not Latch, then I guess forget it.

[nikvoodoo]

By "car" I meant that if it was Latch he would've had to act dead till Angel dropped him off. But since it's not Latch, then I guess forget it.

AH. Gotcha. The body drop off. Now I get what you're talking about. For some reason your post didn't make sense to me, but now it's crystal clear. My apologies.

[ObamaCat]

That would be a major stretch if Latch was alive. Taking a bullet, surviving a fall off the Tower....... unless it was never Latch! Duh duh duh! :p

[Crocketman]

Here's what I think will happen now... they have lizzy yes, but Durai is a reasonable man, and once the 50 cal rounds start pouring through their concrete walls, he will be more than happy to trade lizzy back to get the attack to stop. We know that the mallers have mostly small caliber weapons, well burt is bringing MG's to bear on them, I think they will decide to turn lizzy loose real fast.

[Pen]

That episode was great! And it was so awesome what Burt had for weapons. It gave me a chuckle. I enjoyed the gut wrenching performance by the cast.

[Pikepaw]

Here's what I think will happen now... they have lizzy yes, but Durai is a reasonable man, and once the 50 cal rounds start pouring through their concrete walls, he will be more than happy to trade lizzy back to get the attack to stop. We know that the mallers have mostly small caliber weapons, well burt is bringing MG's to bear on them, I think they will decide to turn lizzy loose real fast.

Maybe they will let Lizzy go, but do you really believe that will stop Saul? Nothing is going to stop him, I can understand his wrath. If I found out that my own blondie was kidnapped and raped by convicts (Still the trauma even if Tardust didn't get to complete the act), I wouldn't stop because they let her go. I would ask her which one of them did it, cut my way through to him with a mass of bullets and tear that pig apart with my own two hands. We are going to see the dark side of Saul here, he won't be giving any mercy, he will attack viciously and kill Mallers in cold blood. Saul is not looking to take prisoners or let anyone get away. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a scene coming up where there is a wounded Maller and Saul ruthlessly shoots them in the head.

Scratch I don't see dying by bullet though. Scratch likes knives, likes cutting. Saul likes his knife. I would lllloooovvvveeeeee for a knife fight, like drooling love for it. Even if Saul isn't the one to kill Scratch, she should get a death by a blade or at least close range

[Ra1th]

Durai is the leader of the worst types of criminals, serial killers and rapists, a wimp could not lead those kind of people, someone who gives in to the enemy's demands ( 5 people and a hummer at...

[nikvoodoo]

And my money is on the Mallers going to "Eastern Bay". After the Mallers were attacked when they discovered and pursued Saul, they were hitted hard, and the wanted The Tower, they didn't made it, so they moved to the next best suitable location: A Prision!, "their" prision, for that matter. They fixed whatever was damaged/destroyed during the break-out, and holed up inside. BTW Lizzie's reaction was obvious, she has been there, and Burt told her about the kind of place it was and the kind of guests it hosted. Besides she has NEVER been to the Arena!, so she wouldn't be surprised to find herself there.


My only issue with the Mallers going back to Eastern Bay is exactly what you said. It's their prison. They spent X number of years in there and the first thing they did...after surviving the horrific and hellatious first onslaught of zombies by being safely tucked away in a prison....they left it for an unprotected strip mall. They left the place that protected them from certain destruction in order to stake their claim on everything they could see. I really and truly can't imagine the Mallers returning to Eastern Bay under any circumstances.

Is it still a possibility? Sure, of course it is and the deserters might be a symptom of them returning to the prison and those people just didn't want to go I just feel like they found a different home.

As for Lizzy never seeing the Arena before: She's 26 years old and has lived in the area for at least 3 years (getting her doctorate which she was just completing so she had to be in the area in some capacity). We've known her for about 4 months. That's potentially 25.75 years she might have gone to the Arena to watch a hockey game, or any other event that might be held in the arena in the off season. All said and done though, I don't think the Arena is a possibility either. Just pointing out she could have seen it at some given point in time and be able to recognize it.

[jamman39]

Let's imagine they did go to Eastern Bay and we get 'The War part 2' assuming the good guys win again they'd be left alone inside a secure prison with plenty of space and (presumably) food in storage, perhaps this is all building towards Eastern Bay becoming a more permanent replacement for the tower?

[Ra1th]

My only issue with the Mallers going back to Eastern Bay is exactly what you said. It's their prison. They spent X number of years in there and the first thing they did...after surviving the horrific and hellatious first onslaught of zombies by being safely tucked away in a prison....they left it for an unprotected strip mall. They left the place that protected them from certain destruction in order to stake their claim on everything they could see. I really and truly can't imagine the Mallers returning to Eastern Bay under any circumstances.

Is it still a possibility? Sure, of course it is and the deserters might be a symptom of them returning to the prison and those people just didn't want to go I just feel like they found a different home.

As for Lizzy never seeing the Arena before: She's 26 years old and has lived in the area for at least 3 years (getting her doctorate which she was just completing so she had to be in the area in some capacity). We've known her for about 4 months. That's potentially 25.75 years she might have gone to the Arena to watch a hockey game, or any other event that might be held in the arena in the off season. All said and done though, I don't think the Arena is a possibility either. Just pointing out she could have seen it at some given point in time and be able to recognize it.

there are a few things i think i can point out. THe mallers did leave eastern bay to stake their own claim and they did go to an unprotected strip mall, except it was unprotected. after one point, is it really worth it living in the mall or is it just better to take the prison and stay alive? of course the downside to this argument is theres a lot of places that they could choose other than eastern bay so yeah

as for the arena argument, please please please dont forget ZOMBIE STRONGHOLD. godkingzombie pimp lives there. his entire horde lives there, why why why why on earth would you go about clearing that place up? that's so difficult, and the zombies arent just gonna up and leave one day. i really dont think its the arena.

[yarri]

What sucks for my wife is that her's starts right about the same time as everyone else, but lasts the ENTIRE TIME. And she get's it daily+. Sometimes up to 4 times a day.

I had none with my first pregnancy. ( a girl) but my 2nd and 3rd.. I was sick the whole time.. I wonder if it had something to do with the fact they were both boys.

[nikvoodoo]

Here's a point that I don't believe was mentioned at any point in any of our Chapter 20 discussions: The Mallers apparently have integrated themselves with some semblance of a female population (aside from Scratch of course). Kc said the prison wasn't co-ed earlier in this thread, but Tardust and Bricks had to check a list against Lizzy's ID to see if she was one of the runaways. Just pointing that out. Continue!

[Pikepaw]

godkingzombie pimp lives there

I agree with the rest of your post Ra1th, the Arena is zombie turf, the Mallers aren't living there. But I just had to highlight that title for the one with the markings because it is freaking AWESOME! I love it. The Godkingzombie pimp he shall now be referred to as, I could see Angel and Saul calling him that

[yarri]

Here's a point that I don't believe was mentioned at any point in any of our Chapter 20 discussions: The Mallers apparently have integrated themselves with some semblance of a female population (aside from Scratch of course). Kc said the prison wasn't co-ed earlier in this thread, but Tardust and Bricks had to check a list against Lizzy's ID to see if she was one of the runaways. Just pointing that out. Continue!

I actually got really afraid when I heard that. I wouldn't want to be a female with that bunch.. Does anyone think they went back to the prison?

[Ra1th]

Here's a point that I don't believe was mentioned at any point in any of our Chapter 20 discussions: The Mallers apparently have integrated themselves with some semblance of a female population (aside from Scratch of course). Kc said the prison wasn't co-ed earlier in this thread, but Tardust and Bricks had to check a list against Lizzy's ID to see if she was one of the runaways. Just pointing that out. Continue!

thats pretty interesting but you know what i think is, they prly did something similar to what hte tower did. i mean JUST because they're criminals doesnt mean they wont save another human being from being eaten alive. i mean comeon, they're "the villains" but not everyone there is evil. i mean durai seemed pretty reasonable, and so does bricks, at no point was he truly vicious to lizzy, he never tried to harm her rape her, he subdued her when she was a threat, and after that he's treated like a prisoner but no more. i think he's a swell guy. so i guess what im saying is the mallers went out on scavenger missions, they prly ran into poeple, and when people saw a boarded up strip mall, they must have joined in. hell they might be prisoners, but if durai is in command, then there are obviously serious consequences for violating certain rules

[yarri]

thats pretty interesting but you know what i think is, they prly did something similar to what hte tower did. i mean JUST because they're criminals doesnt mean they wont save another human being from being eaten alive. i mean comeon, they're "the villains" but not everyone there is evil. i mean durai seemed pretty reasonable, and so does bricks, at no point was he truly vicious to lizzy, he never tried to harm her rape her, he subdued her when she was a threat, and after that he's treated like a prisoner but no more. i think he's a swell guy. so i guess what im saying is the mallers went out on scavenger missions, they prly ran into poeple, and when people saw a boarded up strip mall, they must have joined in. hell they might be prisoners, but if durai is in command, then there are obviously serious consequences for violating certain rules


Ok first ra1th I had to check which section I was in.. chap 20 sec 3.. check.. right chapter right section. I am thinking either your sarcasm is strong tonight.. or I got a different chapter section to listen too..

[nikvoodoo]

thats pretty interesting but you know what i think is, they prly did something similar to what hte tower did. i mean JUST because they're criminals doesnt mean they wont save another human being from being eaten alive. i mean comeon, they're "the villains" but not everyone there is evil. i mean durai seemed pretty reasonable, and so does bricks, at no point was he truly vicious to lizzy, he never tried to harm her rape her, he subdued her when she was a threat, and after that he's treated like a prisoner but no more. i think he's a swell guy. so i guess what im saying is the mallers went out on scavenger missions, they prly ran into poeple, and when people saw a boarded up strip mall, they must have joined in. hell they might be prisoners, but if durai is in command, then there are obviously serious consequences for violating certain rules

I never said they hadn't taken in people and that they were all bad people. I'm simply stating the fact that there had been debate about the gender make up of the Mallers. I'm just presenting the fact that the Mallers did indeed have women in their ranks which hadn't been confirmed until this chapter.

[MrScott101]

I think lizzy is prego, just screamed of prego reminded me of my wife with our daughter. I also think the mallers are at the prison, maybe rounding up deserters for some zombie bait as part of defense tactics since low on ammo. No way are they at the arena, sorry but that would be a time warp way overboard plot twist.

someone could look up furniture stores nearby these theorized locations?

[Ra1th]

nik, ah i didnt mean to say YOU said that, i'm just saying there's a general kinda the mallers are the devil attitude around

example :


Ok first ra1th I had to check which section I was in.. chap 20 sec 3.. check.. right chapter right section. I am thinking either your sarcasm is strong tonight.. or I got a different chapter section to listen too..

no it wasnt sarcasm. Yes Lizzy was almost raped by a criminal maller. Thats really bad yes. BUT just because these are killers and hardened criminals does not mean every single one of them is a rapist or a monster. no doubt there are bound to be a few of them that are worse hence tardust, but durai, scratch and bricks are not people who are EVIL. they use questionable methods and brutal force even when its not necessary but would u rather hang out with the zombies?

We dont know the mallers very well. We dont know their organization, we know they're hardened criminals and that they've attacked the tower. This gives us a really bad perception of them. But what we do know is Durai leads with an iron fist. If his rules/laws are broken, there are serious consequences. we dont know what these rules are. without knowing them we cant just say if you live with the mallers you will be raped. the rules might be different for those that live there. i'm not saying they are, but they MIGHT. I'm just saying the mallers arent so evil that they would leave people to die by zombie rather than take them in, pehaps they'd be lower class citizens, maybe they'd be slaves but we dont KNOW. I think its very possible with someone like durai in command that hte mallers have strict rules against raping and killing each other... without good reason i suppose

[yarri]

nik, ah i didnt mean to say YOU said that, i'm just saying there's a general kinda the mallers are the devil attitude around

example :



no it wasnt sarcasm. Yes Lizzy was almost raped by a criminal maller. Thats really bad yes. BUT just because these are killers and hardened criminals does not mean every single one of them is a rapist or a monster. no doubt there are bound to be a few of them that are worse hence tardust, but durai, scratch and bricks are not people who are EVIL. they use questionable methods and brutal force even when its not necessary but would u rather hang out with the zombies?

We dont know the mallers very well. We dont know their organization, we know they're hardened criminals and that they've attacked the tower. This gives us a really bad perception of them. But what we do know is Durai leads with an iron fist. If his rules/laws are broken, there are serious consequences. we dont know what these rules are. without knowing them we cant just say if you live with the mallers you will be raped. the rules might be different for those that live there. i'm not saying they are, but they MIGHT. I'm just saying the mallers arent so evil that they would leave people to die by zombie rather than take them in, pehaps they'd be lower class citizens, maybe they'd be slaves but we dont KNOW. I think its very possible with someone like durai in command that hte mallers have strict rules against raping and killing each other... without good reason i suppose


I respectfully beg to differ on Scratch.. she is evil. Durai sounds more white collar crime.

[Ra1th]

I respectfully beg to differ on Scratch.. she is evil. Durai sounds more white collar crime.

you see scratch as evil because the story is told to us from a point of view that sees her that way. i'm not saying she's a stand up citizen or anything, but she's not entirely a bad person, she loved her brother, she's cruel at times, but not beyond compassion. I'm sure she has friends that she likes and cares about, of course we dont actually see or hear any of this. we see fuck you pegs you stupid whore. fuck you for stealing our oil tanker. she wasnt unreasonable when angel returned latch's body either, she's not all bad

(this should be called a nikvoodoo, where you pull that zen perspective crap on someone)

oh and durai's defnitely not just white collar, i loved crowbar's idea that he was a spook, or a merc bvglee had a good one that he was special forces.

[yarri]

you see scratch as evil because the story is told to us from a point of view that sees her that way. i'm not saying she's a stand up citizen or anything, but she's not entirely a bad person, she loved her brother, she's cruel at times, but not beyond compassion. I'm sure she has friends that she likes and cares about, of course we dont actually see or hear any of this. we see fuck you pegs you stupid whore. fuck you for stealing our oil tanker. she wasnt unreasonable when angel returned latch's body either, she's not all bad



(this should be called a nikvoodoo, where you pull that zen perspective crap on someone)

Cutting up the face of the stooge they pinned the blame on for the missing tanker.. was a cold blooded calculated act.

I will point out that even snakes love their family..

[Ra1th]

Cutting up the face of the stooge they pinned the blame on for the missing tanker.. was a cold blooded calculated act.

I will point out that even snakes love their family..

never said she wasnt capable of it, just saying we only see one side of her, there is more to a character than just being evil and doing bad things

[yarri]

never said she wasnt capable of it, just saying we only see one side of her, there is more to a character than just being evil and doing bad things

Her brother said.. (paraphrased) You have a problem with lying and hurting people.. YOUR not nice. but I love you..
please don't hurt me. (end paraphrase)

[nikvoodoo]

(this should be called a nikvoodoo, where you pull that zen perspective crap on someone)



Zen perspective crap?...you know....I haven't picked on Angel in one whole week.....maybe I should start again......... :p joking.

[yarri]

Zen perspective crap?...you know....I haven't picked on Angel in one whole week.....maybe I should start again......... :p joking.

:) glad your joking cause then Ra1th and I would have to end our "discussion" (cough) pending argument (cough) over scratch and join up and defend Angel..

[Ra1th]

Zen perspective crap?...you know....I haven't picked on Angel in one whole week.....maybe I should start again......... :p joking.

i couldnt think of another word hahahaa would thingamabob please you more? :p

[nikvoodoo]

:) glad your joking cause then Ra1th and I would have to end our "discussion" (cough) pending argument (cough) over scratch and join up and defend Angel..

I always welcome a challenge, but I'm not gonna do it at the expense of the entire forum having to deal with it. Perhaps we can have this epic showdown on the Angel fan group.


I'm still joking, way too tired to start a s***storm tonight


i couldnt think of another word hahahaa would thingamabob please you more? :p
This does indeed please me. ;)

[yarri]

I always welcome a challenge, but I'm not gonna do it at the expense of the entire forum having to deal with it. Perhaps we can have this epic showdown on the Angel fan group.


I'm still joking, way too tired to start a s***storm tonight

I am only playing Nik

[Ra1th]

I always welcome a challenge, but I'm not gonna do it at the expense of the entire forum having to deal with it. Perhaps we can have this epic showdown on the Angel fan group.


I'm still joking, way too tired to start a s***storm tonight

i'm retired from the angel defense game haha for the most part

[nikvoodoo]

I am only playing Nik
I know you are :)

i'm retired from the angel defense game haha for the most part

I'll beieve it after the next round of harsh Angel criticism.... You'll come runnin' back to defend him. ;)

[Re1ndeer]

I will put my 2 cents in here about this episode.

I think it was cool how as Burt and Saul learned what happened to Lizzy, we learned what happened. That was a nice way to tell the story. It surprised me though when Scratch started to act so nice to Lizzy.

I like how the guys didn't let Saul do crazy things without a fight this time. They actually tried to reason with him.

Can't wait for the next part.

[yarri]

I know you are :)


I'll beieve it after the next round of harsh Angel criticism.... You'll come runnin' back to defend him. ;)

Nah.. I'll get my cheer leader pom poms out and root Ra1th on..

Nik, Do you think Scratch is evil?

[yarri]

I will put my 2 cents in here about this episode.

I think it was cool how as Burt and Saul learned what happened to Lizzy, we learned what happened. That was a nice way to tell the story. It surprised me though when Scratch started to act so nice to Lizzy.

I like how the guys didn't let Saul do crazy things without a fight this time. They actually tried to reason with him.

Can't wait for the next part.

I am still deathly afraid for Lizzy. Scratch has a poor track record with interpersonal relationships and communication. ie.. she is an evil cow

Blondie is in deep kim chee..

[nikvoodoo]

Nah.. I'll get my cheer leader pom poms out and root Ra1th on..

Nik, Do you think Scratch is evil?

Scratch is a victim of her circumstance. She looks out for herself and everyone else be damned. I think her adoration of latch is truly admirable, but she has a lot of issues with her rage which colors how she reacts to everything. She's a very strong person who not only has survived in this hell, she's seemingly thriving (for lack of a better term). she is a very loyal person, and has gained the respect of the mallers even though she's done it through fear and intimidation.

So no, I don't think she's Truly evil. Is she capable of heinous acts? Absolutely. But unlike Gatkeeper who I believe to be the most evil "living" character we've met, Scratch does have redeeming values.

[yarri]

Scratch is a victim of her circumstance. She looks out for herself and everyone else be damned. I think her adoration of latch is truly admirable, but she has a lot of issues with her rage which colors how she reacts to everything. She's a very strong person who not only has survived in this hell, she's seemingly thriving (for lack of a better term). she is a very loyal person, and has gained the respect of the mallers even though she's done it through fear and intimidation.

So no, I don't think she's Truly evil. Is she capable of heinous acts? Absolutely. But unlike Gatkeeper who I believe to be the most evil "living" character we've met, Scratch does have redeeming values.

Point to you Sir Voodoo.. I am converted!! As long as she doesn't hurt Blondie..



. But unlike Gatkeeper who I believe to be the most evil "living" character we've met, Scratch does have redeeming values.

Gatekeeper is very very scary

[yarri]

I just had a terrible thought.. Lizzie's vomiting if its not pregnancy. Could she be getting sick from what ever made the zombies?

[shananala8]

Here's a point that I don't believe was mentioned at any point in any of our Chapter 20 discussions: The Mallers apparently have integrated themselves with some semblance of a female population (aside from Scratch of course). Kc said the prison wasn't co-ed earlier in this thread, but Tardust and Bricks had to check a list against Lizzy's ID to see if she was one of the runaways. Just pointing that out. Continue!

On this topic, we can postulate that the male prisoners are not freely raping any females who may have joined their ranks. Tardust's comments on how long it's been and all that would indicate that he hasn't scored in a while.

[Ra1th]

I just had a terrible thought.. Lizzie's vomiting if its not pregnancy. Could she be getting sick from what ever made the zombies?

why would it be that? sauls not sick with zombie syndrome, and kc wouldnt have her get infected off scenes so i dont see reason to wrry

[Ra1th]

Point to you Sir Voodoo.. I am converted!! As long as she doesn't hurt Blondie..


...wow voodoo says one thing and your sold dont mind me over in the corner yapping

:p

[Joosbawx]

I think that Lizzy is pregnant; however, I think that the father is her ex-now-deceased-boyfriend. how much time have we covered in the narrative so far? at least a couple months, and Lizzy was a late, no pun intended, arrival.

[shananala8]

I think that Lizzy is pregnant; however, I think that the father is her ex-now-deceased-boyfriend. how much time have we covered in the narrative so far? at least a couple months, and Lizzy was a late, no pun intended, arrival.

Story started on May 8, 2009 and we are currently in mid to late August of 2009.

[nikvoodoo]

On this topic, we can postulate that the male prisoners are not freely raping any females who may have joined their ranks. Tardust's comments on how long it's been and all that would indicate that he hasn't scored in a while.

I feel like that would be a safe assumption. So the theorized women in the mall apparently are safe for one reason or another, or are so badass and hardcore no one would dare mess with them.

[Ra1th]

I feel like that would be a safe assumption. So the theorized women in the mall apparently are safe for one reason or another, or are so badass and hardcore no one would dare mess with them.

which if there are civilians among them, its very possible that its the first, not everyone can be a scratch. so there you have it, there is some sort of law/ rule system in play with the mallers, and it's enforced prly with consequences that rival death, or just straight up death, cause theres no other way to keep people like this in line

[Beaumont]

I liked the episode a lot but that rapist might be the worst voice actor I've ever heard...he doesn't come across as threatening or scary only funny. I can't help but laugh at every line read he has and I'm assuming the character is supposed to be some kind of murderous sicko and that just doesn't come across.
The only prediction I have is that with the Mallers being gone means they were able to relocate somewhere better and more secure,which is why they wanted the tower. I am assuming the new regime in the colony was somehow linked with the mallers already and got themselves in a place to take over and move in which is probably the same thing they had hoped to do with the help from the rat in the tower. I also wonder where all the zombies have gone and why with all the movement and noise being made there haven't been at least random zombie kills just to keep the idea that they are some kind of threat. I'm glad we're moving toward a big conflict but almost a month until the next episode...damn this forum is going to be very active with theories.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Whew! That was some good read'n! I love all the newbie comments! Fresh blood! Again, great episode. The transition from past to present was an amazing vehicle to use. The difference in the music was a great touch and really prepared you for the next scene.

Ok.. *ahem, ahem* on with the rest of the story.....

My Arena theory was simply a twist to the obvious. It may just be a way to advance the story, but I just keep seeing people traveling around LA without too much fear now. No encounters with roaming infected. Scratch is tooling around solo, Burt was at the furniture store that morning... solo.
The bums that caught Lizzy were a two man team. It's just too easy. I'd buy it if the creatures only came out at night. Day time travel would be possible with little fear (I am Legendish).
again this is just me, but like Nik pointed out, the ex mallers haven't sat on their hands. The one thing I do know is that cats in prison are inventive... very inventive. Si, it may be pushing the envelope to think they cleaned out the Arena, but I don't see that outside of Durai's vision to be proactive or their capabilities. So, where are the infected hoards then if they haven't been whittled down a bit?
Plus... I like being difficult and KC keeps flipping the script on us.

The prisoner morality traits were brought up: Scratch IS evil. She's a sociopath in every sense of the word. I also think the women they have could possibly be relatives, wives or girlfriends of the inmates. There would have been a good number of people visiting their locked up loved ones during the outbreak (ie..Scratch). They possibly went out and saved other emotionally important people.
Not all of them are going to be John Wayne Gates. You'd have a ton of cats locked up for 3 strikes crap or armed robbery, Manslaughter.. etc. Not exactly the type you want to marry your daughter, but not Michael Myers either.

Rules and Discipline: I think that Durai leads by Charisma and down right iron hand. Does anyone else see Latch as his attack dog? She has a longer leash now that they're gathering deserters.
I think she catches it from Durai and the ish rolls down hill if people aren't doing what they're supposed to do.

Ok, i'm out and without one swing at Angel or Mike.

DURAI for Speaker of the House!!!

[wooly]

I'm betting on the prison as the Mallers new base of operations. The Mallers of course fled originally and set up shop somewhere else the minute they were freed. Who wouldn't? Finally out of the cell...

[Rock Daddy]

Great theories. The little hampster wheel in my head is turning. I wonder who the "the other one - The one already there" is that Tar is talking about? Another captured woman?... or the rat from the tower? Don't forget there was another search party out in the morning besides Burt & Saul. hmmmm

[Arkum]

Can I just bring up a point that I didn't see anyone mention...Durai may have died in the war. Remember when shots rang out from the Tower and then Scratch got on the radio. Haven't heard mention of...

[Rock Daddy]

Finally, Lizzie's gasp at the end may be a response to someone she saw there, not necessarily location based...the rat perhaps or another prisoner?

just my 2 cents that quickly turned into a dollars worth.

Good thought Arkum! Maybe they pulled up and the rat is standing at the entrance. BTW I always want to call you Darkwing. lol

[MrScott101]

Arkum I like the idea of her seeing someone she recognized ie the rat, but at the same time we also do know that the mallers moved so it could be a combination of both? I also like the idea that she might be infected too, in fact what if she was both prego and infected? Hybrid babay?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Can I just bring up a point that I didn't see anyone mention.... Remember
Finally, Lizzie's gasp at the end may be a response to someone she saw there, not necessarily location based...the rat perhaps or another prisoner?

just my 2 cents that quickly turned into a dollars worth.

Damn you Darkwing Duck!! Damn you!! Someone instead of someplace?! UGH! UGH and UGH! Now I feel like throwing up!
I'm not feeling well at all right now.. nope, down right feverish. If I could turn pale, I think I'd be pale right now!

Way to turn EVERYONE's theories upside down! I hate newbies upsetting the delicate balance of things! Now i'm not going to be able to sleep tonight because of you! Are you happy huh? Huh?
Now I have to not only look forward to a night of tossing and turning, but my wife elbowing me in the adams apple and cussing me out because she can't sleep now. All that leads me to a bleary eyed day at work, which in turn leads me to posting grumpy rants about Angel.
You wanna know what happens then?
well my friend...
I get Ra1th all worked up (envision Bill Bixby in the original Hulk tv show)
A cranky #1 Angel Fan leads to Yarri's Momma Bear tendencies to flare up. Then Nik starts to giggle in the corner like Muttley while KC threatens to pummel us to submission via water cannon!

Thanks for you new fangled theory and all the pain it's about to bring! You, Sir,-along with the people who created Wheat Thins and Nutter Butter- are on my hit list...
*runs off shaking his fist at the heavens*

[Arkum]

Oddly enough...yes I am indeed happy now.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

ROFL!! That just shows how sadistic you are. Yes sir... sadistic.

[Arkum]

I am the terror that make you flap in the night. Sleep well.......

[Rock Daddy]

LMAO Now this is a discussion!

[nikvoodoo]

This was brought up in Durai's character thread I believe. Durai could have been killed in the war, yes. But during the clean up, I feel like that would have been mentioned. Unless the zombies took...

[MrScott101]

Arkum/darkwing duck you have now gained major stature for coming up with a fantastic idea before Mr Nik Voodoo!!!

[Arkum]

Some plant seeds of thought in others minds, I prefer to plant weeds. They take longer to uproot.

I can't for the life of me think of who was missing from the tower for the last few days that could be with the Mallers though. I may have to go back a few chapters and research who is around. Could also be the site of someone dead, like she looks up and there's Latch, strung up as a memorial since Scratch has lost her mind even more without him around to keep her in reality.

Or maybe she just saw that they had fields of crops and a carnival going.

[nikvoodoo]

Some plant seeds of thought in others minds, I prefer to plant weeds. They take longer to uproot.

I can't for the life of me think of who was missing from the tower for the last few days that could be with the Mallers though. I may have to go back a few chapters and research who is around. Could also be the site of someone dead, like she looks up and there's latch, strung up as a memorial since Scratch has lost her mind even more without him around to keep he in reality.

Or maybe she just saw that they had fields of crops and a carnival going.

We have not heard Kalani since the base mission, so he's not around. Aaand that would be it except for our unnamed Tower residents (I know they are actually named but we don't know who they are). Everyone else we've heard from at least once since arriving back at the Tower. So lets just feed the flames of that Kalani theory again.

And really....STOP STEALING MY IDEAS! I as totally gonna say the mallers were having a carnival! Sheesh.....damn mind readers! ;) That would be the scariest carnival ever. Carnie rigs the games so the Mallers can't win, Mallers take the entire stand out with a pipe bomb....

[Arkum]

The only other thing I can think of is like mentioned previous, the Mallers have captive zombies.

And if you would like me to stop stealing your ideas, stop leaving them on post-it notes all over the office.

I also feel like Angel will come to shine in the coming episodes, showing that his only tactic isn't "Wait and see what happens"

[Rock Daddy]

Yes. I have grown to be an Angel fan myself. (Sorry to any anti-Angel people) But yeah, that would be killer.

[Arkum]

I think he was the one pushing for a stealthier option last episode wasn't he? maybe he's got a plan...finally

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

See Dag on Newbies! Just causing all kinds of havok! Shredding well established theories from the old heads, mind reading... what's next?
Egads! Me thinketh he mayeth be a mole! A plant by that fiend KC! He has insider knowledge and was sent to throw us off the scent! Yah! That's the ticket.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I also feel like Angel will come to shine in the coming episodes, showing that his only tactic isn't "Wait and see what happens"

ooooohhhh! Ra1th! see, I didn't say that! He did!!

[Arkum]

YOU'LL NEVER CATCH ME ALIVE! *hides with Skittles*

[VeritableHero]

Good grief. The thread had 7 non-related posts before one actually talked about the episode. It's getting harder to trim the fat and read the related posts. :)

At any rate, Lizzy being pregnant might be a possibility. That would explain the frequent vomit. However, I doubt it was the night of the party (Saul was so drunk he couldn't even stand). He was also so sick that it would have been difficult after he was shot.

Johnny was probably just hit by one of the many molitov cocktails.

I'm more inclined to think that Lizzy said no because of the location they arrived at unless someone she recognized was just standing outside (possible). The prison makes sense on multiple levels as previously mentioned: prisoners already know their way around, easier to fortify than a strip mall, and could cause people to want to strike out on their own.

It could also be some place she didn't recognize and the "no" was the fealing of defeat. She knows that if they didn't arrive at the strip mall that her group wouldn't know where to look. Just a thought.

[Arkum]

It could also be some place she didn't recognize and the "no" was the fealing of defeat. She knows that if they didn't arrive at the strip mall that her group wouldn't know where to look. Just a thought.

Very good point. She may feel that escape or rescue is now hopeless.

Perhaps she was at a dock ready to go on a boat to destinations unknown. I don't recall hearing seagulls, but I don't think they were there when Michael, Kelly and Pegs were at the water either.

[Rock Daddy]

It could also be some place she didn't recognize and the "no" was the fealing of defeat. She knows that if they didn't arrive at the strip mall that her group wouldn't know where to look. Just a thought.

Listening to it again, I do think that Lizzy is saying "No" to the new place the mallers are at -- Not a person she recognizes. Both because it's a different location and also because it's somewhere her friends won't be able to penetrate. The other thing I'm trying to figure out is Tardust's reaction to Lizzy saying that her friends will come. He sounds very confident, not because they picked a spot no one will look, but because it's a fortified stronghold. That's why he syays he's "just not worried".

[fraggot]

I still hope we see more of Skittles in the future, even though his last bit was brief, it was memorable.

[Rock Daddy]

I still hope we see more of Skittles in the future, even though his last bit was brief, it was memorable.

Maybe he was captured by the Maller scouts already!

[Eviebae]

... I do think that Lizzy is saying "No" to the new place the mallers are at ... Both because it's a different location and also because it's somewhere her friends won't be able to penetrate.

That's the impression I had; except I didn't think the second part, just that it was somewhere else than expected.

Scratch said she didn't care the guy was about to rape Lizzy, but she acted like she cared. Besides her possibly having a sense of empathy, she's a woman too and it has to be hard for her around an all male chorus.

Some thoughts on Scratch:
The way Scratch said "you're sick" made me wonder. Specifically, if this was something that was starting to happen amongst the survivors. Either that, or she thought Lizzy might be pregnant. Being the leader means caring about what happens to the people under you. Not just yelling because you want to tell people what to do. I'm hoping that Scratch is starting to grow as a person

Johnny survived having a lot of burns, wonder if there's a doctor with the Mallers. If so, is he experimenting.

[Arkum]

Johnny survived having a lot of burns, wonder if there's a doctor with the Mallers. If so, is he experimenting.

Love this theory. That could get real interesting if the Mallers somehow figure out how to control the zombies, or at least certain breeds of them.

[MGM Ray]

Ok, here's a theory I haven't heard yet. What if the mallers have joined forces with the Colony and the list of people they're looking for is the names of Michael, Kelly, Pegs, Hope, Tanya and Victor? Additionally, did you pick up on the comment from Scratch when she's talking to the guy who was going to rape Lizzy? He asks if they have heard anything recently from, what seems to me, the person in the tower and Scratch says, "Not recently." So I guess that means Lizzy is definitely not the traitor.

[ObamaCat]

Woah some interesting theories bouncing around. You guys are killing me by making me read through all these posts :/ :p. While I think the thought that perhaps Lizzy saw someone she knew as opposed to somewhere is very interesting, I think it was a somewhere that she saw. I can't imagine anyone too important that's missing that would cause her to gasp.

[Ra1th]

i hate the idea that the colony and the mallers are working together. that sounds sooo dumb. Hey we have two great sets of villains on this show, you know what would be great lets have them work together, yeah that sounds awesome. What good does that do? what does that accomplish? If the tower was some sort of insane unstopable super power, thats one thing, but they arent. the tower is the underdog. they have 20 - 30 people just trying to get by. of those 20 people 5-8 of them are actually capable as soldiers. The colony is MASSIVE theres around a 1000 people living there, thats a huge number compared to 20-30. same with the mallers, we dont know what their numbers are like but its probably estimated in the hundreds somewhere between 100 and 400. Look its been established that both of these guys are BAD people, gatekeeper is bad, the mallers tried to rape lizzy, etc. etc. From a story telling perspective, what good comes from having these two join forces? it just seems soooo cheesy and stupid,

gatekeeper: wow scratch i like your style
scratch: oh your pretty messed up in the head, we should join forces


if anything these two forces would tear each other apart on sight

[ObamaCat]

Ra1th, you mad bro? :p I think if that since the Tower's enemies so vastly outnumber them it adds more tension and need for them to get to Fort Irwin. They need to get Lizzy, and get to LAX asap so Kalani can fly them out (and finally have a use on the show).

[Ra1th]

Ra1th, you mad bro? :p I think if that since the Tower's enemies so vastly outnumber them it adds more tension and need for them to get to Fort Irwin. They need to get Lizzy, and get to LAX asap so Kalani can fly them out (and finally have a use on the show).

hahah i'm not mad, it usually takes someone prodding at angel to get me super worked up

but i'll say this, i dont think we'll see the tower leaving LA just yet, or not this season anyway. i know at the climax of season1 michaels ending line was " we gotta leave the tower" and we were all like ohhahhhhhhhhalsd;kjfa;dkjsfa;djf omygoooodhooooshiiiit

but then if you start thinking about it, theres too much shit going on in LA for them to leave so soon. INK is in LA. Ground Zero is in LA, the second tower mystery is in LA. the key to the mystery behind the zombies? its all in LA. I suppose you could leave it all behind because survival is more important, but I really hope they dont just abandon this plot. cause the thing is, we're alive isnt like the walking dead where they authors refuse to tell us anythign about how it started and how it spread. We're alive gave us some serious hints to this, and foreshadowed more information to come. Like when kalani said the second tower had information on ground zero and even knew where it was!, that was intense, the news broadcast about INK being taken to the mental institution, finding out the zombie evolutions, skittles!, tracking the zombies to their base of operations, ALL of this is in LA, and all of this has been begging the question of how did this begin? how did this spread? and is there a way to stop it? and from the way all this info was presented it seemed like an answer would be given at some point or another, but if htey leave LA that answer will never come

[Onslaught]

This theory is based on the assumption that Durai was killed.
IF he was killed, then maybe, just maybe, that was the reason the mallers had deserters. With no strong sense of leadership they would feel unsafe and would not want to follow Scratches crazy iron fist. with fewer people, and almost no weapons, they would be forced to move from the strip mall as it would be too big to secure by the few they had left. It would make them move someplace smaller and more secure where they could chill out for a while, while they looked for deserters to get back. Although there was a part that scratch said something to the guy that was going to rape Lizzy that he needed to be meeting up with the others. Now I don't know if this meant they're all in one area scouting the place out, but it seems like they're actually on the move splitting up then regrouping. I may be wrong it all depends on if Durai was killed or if hes still alive.

[Ra1th]

This theory is based on the assumption that Durai was killed.
IF he was killed, then maybe, just maybe, that was the reason the mallers had deserters. With no strong sense of leadership they would feel unsafe and would not want to follow Scratches crazy iron fist. with fewer people, and almost no weapons, they would be forced to move from the strip mall as it would be too big to secure by the few they had left. It would make them move someplace smaller and more secure where they could chill out for a while, while they looked for deserters to get back. Although there was a part that scratch said something to the guy that was going to rape Lizzy that he needed to be meeting up with the others. Now I don't know if this meant they're all in one area scouting the place out, but it seems like they're actually on the move splitting up then regrouping. I may be wrong it all depends on if Durai was killed or if hes still alive.

see heres the other thing, the one theory i hate more than the mallers and the colony joining forces is the idea that durai somehow died. that seems so ridiculous. Durai was introduced as this extremely powerful, highly dangerous, very capable character. He was the omnious leader of the mallers, a man who whipped hundreds of hardened criminals, rapists and killers into his own personal army then used them to brutally survive in the post apocalyptic world. This guy is a swiss army knife of the darkside. We know nothing about him, but he's apparently capable of almost anything. so basically kc introduced this really cool, dark, mysterious badass villain/big boss character. Obviously some serious thought went into how this character would be recieved and the reputation surrounding this character, and he has a hell of a reputation, the mallers shake in fear at the mere mention of his name. that takes time and effort to build that kind of a mythology surrounding this character. I guarantee you Durai is not dead. That is not the type of person who would have just died behind the scenes because some zombies showed up. consider durai the supersoldier human version of Ink, its too big a stretch to assume he was killed off camera. what evidence is there that he's not alive any more? people report to scratch? the mallers have grown in size and number (see above posts) they arent a small group like the tower, there are hundreds of them, durai needs a second in command to manage day to day activities and smaller problems like some stranger being taken prisoner by some low level goons. he's got bigger better things to plan. Basically durai isnt dead, i'll bet any of you, anything that he isnt. I'm not syaing he wont die, im just saying he has not been killed off camera because thats lame and stupid, and a total waste of a really cool character.

[MrScott101]

The colony and the mallers are not working together unless gatekeeper was a plant by the mallers quite a while ago, or gatekeeper is Durai in disguise.

but I bet where ever the mallers are at, skittles knows the way in and his true "taste the rainbow" will come out and lead the tower defenders to rescue Lizzy and maybe even prevent Saul from getting wiped off the face of the planet.

[VeritableHero]

...or gatekeeper is Durai in disguise.
HA! Thanks for making me laugh out loud. That was a funny joke for 11:00 at night. :)

Skittles coming in to save the day doesn't seem likely. He is more inclined to stay out of conflict especially since he has no vested interest in it. He helped Angel/Kalani because they were putting his life in danger by being around.

I agree with Ra1th - Durai is not dead. As much as I'd love to get a change of location, it's just not going to happen. Why would KC put so much time and energy into LA only to have us fly away? Unless we split the group up .. putting most of the no name people and a handful of the major players heading to the fort to get a nice home base. Leave the other group at a secondary base to investigate ground zero. But, yeah. That's probably not happening either.

[HardKor]

i hate the idea that the colony and the mallers are working together. that sounds sooo dumb. Hey we have two great sets of villains on this show, you know what would be great lets have them work together, yeah that sounds awesome. What good does that do? what does that accomplish? If the tower was some sort of insane unstopable super power, thats one thing, but they arent. the tower is the underdog. they have 20 - 30 people just trying to get by. of those 20 people 5-8 of them are actually capable as soldiers. The colony is MASSIVE theres around a 1000 people living there, thats a huge number compared to 20-30. same with the mallers, we dont know what their numbers are like but its probably estimated in the hundreds somewhere between 100 and 400. Look its been established that both of these guys are BAD people, gatekeeper is bad, the mallers tried to rape lizzy, etc. etc. From a story telling perspective, what good comes from having these two join forces? it just seems soooo cheesy and stupid,

gatekeeper: wow scratch i like your style
scratch: oh your pretty messed up in the head, we should join forces


if anything these two forces would tear each other apart on sight

I agree completely with that assessment. Plus the people in the Colony aren't bad people. Sure Gatekeeper is a batshit crazy sociopath, but most of the regular people there are just that...regular people. People who are just trying to survive and are willing to put up with a crazy leader to do so because they're afraid of the alternative. The Mallers on the other hand are all...or at least mostly...batshit crazy sociopaths. If Gatekeeper did try to ally with the Mallers the rank and file Colony folk would probably revolt in disgust.

[Zombiehead]

Who's happy Scratch is back!? *raises hand*

Lizzy's puking was definitely a symptom. I'm not quite sure it's pregnancy. Initially I suspected she was showing signs of infection but being preggers isn't exactly far-fetched. The way Scratch said "you're sick" and then ordered the removal of the handcuffs could be taken as an indicator. Women tend just know these things. I once figured out girl in my college class was pregnant nearly 3 weeks before she officially announced it. It's all in the silent signs and signals.

If Durai is ex-military, perhaps he knows about Fort Irwin as well? Maybe the Tower rat gave him a heads up? It's too early to say.


Yes, I agree, Lizzie may be pregnant (even though I've read that very intense fear makes people vomit or retch bile even if their stomatch is empty), but that Latch nonsense is getting annoying, he's DEAD!, period (this is an "infected" plague so no Undead Latch, and his evil twin is fraternal and already there, so no cheap Soap Opera/Goatee doppelgänger storyline either). It's an apocalypse. The only person she has left in the world was murdered. Not by zombies, not by catching the infection, he was shot and his killer is alive within another faction. You can't heal that kind of wound with time.


I liked the episode a lot but that rapist might be the worst voice actor I've ever heard...he doesn't come across as threatening or scary only funny. I can't help but laugh at every line read he has and I'm assuming the character is supposed to be some kind of murderous sicko and that just doesn't come across. I caught that last episode. I had a hard time being convinced this guy's ever been in prison. Too much Joker (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2kjisMm3M9Y/SbFrFH-4JkI/AAAAAAAAILA/OG3l6s64NeU/s400/wallpaper+the+brave+and+the+bold+joker+1.jpg), not enough Deebo (http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/debo.jpg).

[nikvoodoo]

I liked the episode a lot but that rapist might be the worst voice actor I've ever heard...he doesn't come across as threatening or scary only funny. I can't help but laugh at every line read he has and I'm assuming the character is supposed to be some kind of murderous sicko and that just doesn't come across

Just because Tardust is a sex offender (which seems pretty obvious since he knew exactly what needed to happen for him to....get ready in a violent sexual encounter...) doesn't mean he's a murderous sicko. One does not necessarily equal the other. There are some sex offenders who do not murder there victims, and there are murderers who don't rape their victims.

If he was truly a murderous sicko, why not slit Lizzy's throat when she was incapacitated from the taser?

[shananala8]

Yeah, I see Tardust as being kind of like this guy (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3511/3244469731_3cdbb1192d.jpg). Basically a creepy sexual offender. So from that angle, I see the voice actor as doing a very good job with the character.

[Ra1th]

There are some sex offenders who do not murder there victims

GRAMMER HAMMER! YOU MEAN TO SAY "THEIR"

:D never thought i'd catch you, BUT I DID WOOOOOOOT

[nikvoodoo]

GRAMMER HAMMER! YOU MEAN TO SAY "THEIR"

:D never thought i'd catch you, BUT I DID WOOOOOOOT

I blame auto correct on my iPad. Trust me, It's one of my biggest pet peeves and I don't interchange they're, their or there because I know the difference between them.

And just to burst your bubble, you spelled grammar wrong. Aces!

[Ra1th]

Gaahhhh damnitall

[clem131]

I honestly did not think about pregnancy at all, I just assumed it was the scare/shock/aftershock from the taser. Isn't it common to puke after being tazed?

On another topic, I'm writing a fanfiction in which Lizzie is rescued and Michael mocks her Nelson-style for 16 hours for treating him like an idiot during the war "oh, you have no magic plan to fix everything, you suck, gnahgnahgnah!" and then not being able to survive more than 1 day on her own. ;)

[Arkum]

Any theories on the "she" that Scrath mentions being back at the base when she also says "No word yet" while talking to Tardust in the furniture store?

[kafu288]

Here's my theory: Lizzy didn't see a place. She saw the traitor. I don't know who it was because I think all the characters are busy and accounted for but that would definitely make her say "no" and start distressing.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of connection between the mallers and the colony. Maybe its just a "this is our territory and that's yours we'll all just stay away from each other" type of deal, and maybe they just share information. It just seems strange to me that the Mallers are out looking for people right after Michael and co escape.

[kdalton]

Wow. What an episode. Kudos to the direction, production, and actors.

[VeritableHero]

Side note: if Saul makes it back to the tower then Steven is going to get some anger directed his way. It's his fault for making such a big deal that Lizzy had to leave. I'm guessing that once Saul gets the entire story then that's going to be a problem. :)

[MrScott101]

I think a Saul Steven showdown needs to happen, ooohhhh thought bubble, what if Steven is the rat and that's who Lizzy recognizes with the mallers??

[Ra1th]

Side note: if Saul makes it back to the tower then Steven is going to get some anger directed his way. It's his fault for making such a big deal that Lizzy had to leave. I'm guessing that once Saul gets the entire story then that's going to be a problem. :)

it'll be just as great as when bixby got hit in the face with a shovel

saul needs a shovel

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Nope, Shovels are Mike's lane. Saul needs to buttstroke Steven then they can give him a sock party! I still think Steven was pushing for regime change and trying to nominate himself and not being to sly about it.

[Guts Malone]

Anyone notice that Lizzy was "sick".

<devilsadvocate>Maybe morning sickness*</devilsadvocate>

*I know she was going through something very traumatic, it's just that it was the first thing I thought of, as my wife has horrible morning sickness during her pregnancies.

Saul is a hybrid human/zombie or a carrier. Just think, he could up against the one with the markings

[Ra1th]

Saul is a hybrid human/zombie or a carrier. Just think, he could up against the one with the markings

its not likely tanya allready told us he isnt infected,

[nikvoodoo]

its not likely tanya allready told us he isnt infected,

Saul's mother would have a pretty good reason to lie about it after seeing everyone lock and load when they mentioned his handcuffs were taken off. Just sayin'

[MGM Ray]

Here's my theory: Lizzy didn't see a place. She saw the traitor. I don't know who it was because I think all the characters are busy and accounted for but that would definitely make her say "no" and start distressing.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of connection between the mallers and the colony. Maybe its just a "this is our territory and that's yours we'll all just stay away from each other" type of deal, and maybe they just share information. It just seems strange to me that the Mallers are out looking for people right after Michael and co escape.

Exactly!! The fact that they had a list to check Lizzy's name against sent up the red flags for me. So maybe not so much joined forces but cooperating for sure. Hey, who's to say they don't have a traitor/Mole in the Colony as well as the Tower???

[Onslaught]

see heres the other thing, the one theory i hate more than the mallers and the colony joining forces is the idea that durai somehow died. that seems so ridiculous. Durai was introduced as this extremely powerful, highly dangerous, very capable character. He was the omnious leader of the mallers, a man who whipped hundreds of hardened criminals, rapists and killers into his own personal army then used them to brutally survive in the post apocalyptic world. This guy is a swiss army knife of the darkside. We know nothing about him, but he's apparently capable of almost anything. so basically kc introduced this really cool, dark, mysterious badass villain/big boss character. Obviously some serious thought went into how this character would be recieved and the reputation surrounding this character, and he has a hell of a reputation, the mallers shake in fear at the mere mention of his name. that takes time and effort to build that kind of a mythology surrounding this character. I guarantee you Durai is not dead. That is not the type of person who would have just died behind the scenes because some zombies showed up. consider durai the supersoldier human version of Ink, its too big a stretch to assume he was killed off camera. what evidence is there that he's not alive any more? people report to scratch? the mallers have grown in size and number (see above posts) they arent a small group like the tower, there are hundreds of them, durai needs a second in command to manage day to day activities and smaller problems like some stranger being taken prisoner by some low level goons. he's got bigger better things to plan. Basically durai isnt dead, i'll bet any of you, anything that he isnt. I'm not syaing he wont die, im just saying he has not been killed off camera because thats lame and stupid, and a total waste of a really cool character.
But there is a small chance, even if it is one out of a million there is a chance. Now I'm not saying he was killed by zombies, I'm saying he was killed by whoever shot at the mallers first, once the tower people told them to stop shooting, they found out they were the ones shooting. Scratch then responded by saying, that was a big mistake. Now why else would she take the radio from Durai. Durai would have kept it and told them that they were going to attack or something of that sort. Whats next, are you going to say Marcus is still alive? He was a big character, he was someone everybody obeyed and most at the colony feared him. Are you saying he wasn't killed? Because I can guarantee you that Marcus is dead. Both cases are similar and they could both be dead or alive, but, both have reasonable doubt. And I agree with you, it would be lame and stupid for Durai to be killed off behind the scenes but look at Marcus. He was killed off away from the camera and he seemed like a major player.

[Ra1th]

But there is a small chance, even if it is one out of a million there is a chance. Now I'm not saying he was killed by zombies, I'm saying he was killed by whoever shot at the mallers first, once the tower people told them to stop shooting, they found out they were the ones shooting. Scratch then responded by saying, that was a big mistake. Now why else would she take the radio from Durai. Durai would have kept it and told them that they were going to attack or something of that sort. Whats next, are you going to say Marcus is still alive? He was a big character, he was someone everybody obeyed and most at the colony feared him. Are you saying he wasn't killed? Because I can guarantee you that Marcus is dead. Both cases are similar and they could both be dead or alive, but, both have reasonable doubt. And I agree with you, it would be lame and stupid for Durai to be killed off behind the scenes but look at Marcus. He was killed off away from the camera and he seemed like a major player.


Sure, there is a 1 in a million shot he died, and your evidence and argument is solid. There's really no more evidence left to analyze, so it kinda just leaves us to wait and see. Personally, I think we'll be hearing from Durai again very soon, if not... well then that sucks I liked Durai

[ObamaCat]

But there is a small chance, even if it is one out of a million there is a chance. Now I'm not saying he was killed by zombies, I'm saying he was killed by whoever shot at the mallers first, once the tower people told them to stop shooting, they found out they were the ones shooting. Scratch then responded by saying, that was a big mistake. Now why else would she take the radio from Durai. Durai would have kept it and told them that they were going to attack or something of that sort. Whats next, are you going to say Marcus is still alive? He was a big character, he was someone everybody obeyed and most at the colony feared him. Are you saying he wasn't killed? Because I can guarantee you that Marcus is dead. Both cases are similar and they could both be dead or alive, but, both have reasonable doubt. And I agree with you, it would be lame and stupid for Durai to be killed off behind the scenes but look at Marcus. He was killed off away from the camera and he seemed like a major player.

Until I see Marcus's body, I won't believe he's dead. Until we have legitimate proof that Marcus is dead, there is still reason to believe he's still alive. Same goes for Durai. I'm inclined to believe that one is dead and the other is alive. But maybe that's just me.

[Zombiehead]

Also remember something else: Lizzy is from L.A. There is the slight possibility that where they are is somewhere she knows from before the outbreak. What could cause such a reaction? I don't have any good guesses at the moment. But I'll throw a log on the fire anyway: LAX. If she sees an airport, she might assume the worst which is she's being flown somewhere by the Mallers and then she'll really be screwed. A plane would make sense but that's kind of obvious. We have to think KC style. What about a large sea-worthy vessel? A frieghter or something massive they could put the fuel trucks on along with any other vehicle they have? Something they can land anywhere on the coast and raid the area for supplies. I don't know how boats work. Just throwing it out there.

[Eviebae]

What about a large sea-worthy vessel?

Like these? http://www.metronc.com/article/?id=1117

[HardKor]

Like these? http://www.metronc.com/article/?id=1117

LOL that would be awesome...Pirate Mallers!. I can just here Scratch shouting "Avast!"
I do like the idea of them moving to a ship though. A big tanker or freight ship they could move just off the coast would be pretty easy to defend and make a lot of sense.

[Zombiehead]

Like these? http://www.metronc.com/article/?id=1117
Okay, so my terminology sucks.

But something like this (http://www.matternetwork.com/images/Matter/cargo-ship-optimised.jpg). Or bigger than this (http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/SHIP_LPD-LST_Disgorging_Landing_Craft_Singapore_lg.jpg). I don't know how well you can live on one of these (http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/12/article-1100714-02D5F12D000005DC-289_634x430_01.jpg). Even better (http://maxgrace.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/carnival-cruise_ship.jpg).

[ZeoBoku]

I reckon Tardust has HIV+...poor Lizzy.

[Luna Guardian]

Someone's probably said this already, but:

Am I the only one who thought that the Mallers had moved back to the prison or perhaps another tower? 'Cause let's be honest, they probably aren't complete idiots and a mall is a pretty bad defencive place, be it against humans or the undead.

[VeritableHero]

What about a large sea-worthy vessel? Why did this make me think of Waterworld (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterworld)?


... Scratch then responded by saying, that was a big mistake. Now why else would she take the radio from Durai. Durai would have kept it and told them that they were going to attack or something of that sort.
I completely disagree with you. Durai is a smart man and a leader. If bullets start flying, why would he stay out in the open? I've always pictured this scene as Scratch holding the radio, Durai talking. Bullets are fired, Durai ducks for cover and drops the handset. He's too cool and calculated to respond at that point. The only choice is obvious. Scratch is a "last word" type of person and is still holding the radio and tells the tower it was a big mistake. The mistake was not killing Durai; it was starting a fight with crazy people.


Personally, I think we'll be hearing from Durai again very soon, if not... I agree. I think we'll see him in this new chapter at the end of the month.

[GChild78]

Any theories on the "she" that Scrath mentions being back at the base when she also says "No word yet" while talking to Tardust in the furniture store?

If they are talking about the colony...my money is on Amy.

If they are talking about the tower, then I'm stumped cause I thought Lizzy was the traitor. Why do I think so? Cause someone blew the real Paul's brains out, and the last person he was with was with Lizzy. Well, that's what Pegs says anyway...

[nikvoodoo]

If they are talking about the colony...my money is on Amy.

If they are talking about the tower, then I'm stumped cause I thought Lizzy was the traitor. Why do I think so? Cause someone blew the real Paul's brains out, and the last person he was with was with Lizzy. Well, that's what Pegs says anyway...

The same Paul that got wrecked by The Tattooed One? Why do you think Lizzy's shot Paul?

[GChild78]

The same Paul that got wrecked by The Tattooed One? Why do you think Lizzy's shot Paul?

When Angel, Micheal, Burt and Saul come back and find the place invaded, I think it was Saul that mentioned that his head got blown off. I doubt the tattooed one has or needs a gun. Plus, If he was with Lizzy, why is it that she made it out and not Paul? I think he either walked in on her having a conversation with the mallers or eavesdropped and was found out. Either way, I think Saul or any of them for that matter, would know what a gunshot to the head looks like. That's my opinion...don't eat me :S

[Wicked Sid]

The Marked One tends to have... Let's go with abnormally strong hands/arms/body. I'm sure he's more than capable of crushing a human skull. Just because it looked like it was blown off doesn't necessarily mean that it was.

Paul went to check the door and was rushed then subsequently murdered. Lizzy was still near the security room, or inside of it for that matter, when the front door was busted in.

[nikvoodoo]

When Angel, Micheal, Burt and Saul come back and find the place invaded, I think it was Saul that mentioned that his head got blown off. I doubt the tattooed one has or needs a gun. Plus, If he was with Lizzy, why is it that she made it out and not Paul? I think he either walked in on her having a conversation with the mallers or eavesdropped and was found out. Either way, I think Saul or any of them for that matter, would know what a gunshot to the head looks like. That's my opinion...don't eat me :S

I don't bite....hard.....

Besides, you made me think for a hot second, that would have been one he'll of a hint we overlooked. And it very well could be. There is a slim possibility Lizzy's could have killed Paul, and the sound attracted The One With The Markings to the building. That's a hard pill for me to swallow, but it's still possible. We saw the Colony use a fake zombie attack as a diversion, it stands to reason someone else could do the same thing in the tower.

[Zombiehead]

I don't bite....hard.....

Besides, you made me think for a hot second, that would have been one he'll of a hint we overlooked. And it very well could be. There is a slim possibility Lizzy's could have killed Paul, and the sound attracted The One With The Markings to the building. That's a hard pill for me to swallow, but it's still possible. We saw the Colony use a fake zombie attack as a diversion, it stands to reason someone else could do the same thing in the tower. If she blew his head off, others would have heard the gunshot before Tattoo showed up.

[nikvoodoo]

If she blew his head off, others would have heard the gunshot before Tattoo showed up.

I'm just saying zombie attack was used as a diversion before...of course the difference there was there were no zombies attacking the Colony at that time. There most definitely was one attacking the tower.

Like I said, it's a hard pill to swallow and I don't happen to personally believe it. But if a few facts were tweaked, that would be one hell of a curveball

[Ra1th]

I don't bite....hard.....

Besides, you made me think for a hot second, that would have been one he'll of a hint we overlooked. And it very well could be. There is a slim possibility Lizzy's could have killed Paul, and the sound attracted The One With The Markings to the building. That's a hard pill for me to swallow, but it's still possible. We saw the Colony use a fake zombie attack as a diversion, it stands to reason someone else could do the same thing in the tower.


i dont think thats possible, lizzy and paul were together when ink showed up at the door right? paul went to let him in, and he jumped paul

[GChild78]

Not right away, cause paul made it to the second floor, right? Sigh...my brain hurts. Well, I used to think it was Pegs, but that didn't hold much water.

[Eviebae]

Okay, so my terminology sucks.

Was joking!:p

I like the idea, but the water around Catalina seemed infested. If they got to it, I think they'd have to be ready to leave asap.

[JesseG]

You know, i'm hoping for some more zombie attacks in the next episode. We are due for a few zombie plot curveballs. We went from the colony to back to the tower to the mallers. I'm ready for Ink to come back or maybe we get to meet one of the "smart ones" that skittles was talking about.

[Zombiehead]

Was joking!:p

I like the idea, but the water around Catalina seemed infested. If they got to it, I think they'd have to be ready to leave asap.Exactly. That's the beauty of it! The Tower is aware of swimmers, and as far as we know, the Maller's aren't. If they happen to find a something docked (http://www.shipspotting.com/photos/middle/1/8/8/104881.jpg)on the coast and take it expecting to be safe... *rings the dinner bell* Open Water 3: Z-Apocalypse

[nikvoodoo]

I don't feel like we've dove into the other people Scratch brought up while in the furniture store enough. Anyone have thoughts as to who they might be? What their purpose is? Anybody think the Mallers have worked out some deal with the One With The Markings and are providing him with sacrifices to spare themselves? ;)

[JesseG]

Exactly. That's the beauty of it! The Tower is aware of swimmers, and as far as we know, the Maller's aren't. If they happen to find a something docked (http://www.shipspotting.com/photos/middle/1/8/8/104881.jpg)on the coast and take it expecting to be safe... *rings the dinner bell* Open Water 3: Z-Apocalypse

Hah, that is true. Wouldn't it be sweet, but hopefully it won't kill Lizzie. Because I'm not sure she was around when they talked about them. Did they relay the swimmers message before they went to the colony?

[timberwoof]

My guess is they went to the Arena, and since Lizzy heard the stories from the others she was surprised and the person she saw the INK or which ever was inside the Arena that killed Samantha.

[VeritableHero]

Side note: If Lizzy is pregnant, I really hope it doesn't go the route of Dawn of the Dead (was that the one?) and have a zombie baby. That still disturbs me especially since we had a baby at the end of last year.

I'll say this: there's no way the Mallers went to the arena. It's not a building that's easily defended.

[Hollomandious]

After finally getting in here, and seeing 150+ posts, i can't really compose a good reply. Just far too much effort. So, i'm just gonna state my thoughts right here.

I think the stragglers that Tar and Brick are looking for are probably (for lack of a better term) slaves collected in the area. Think about it. They have goals. They don't wanna do all the hard work themselves, so they get some little forced helpers. Let's call them "The Maller's Little Helpers."

I don't think Lizzy's reaction has anything to do with finding the trader. I think she is just saying , "oh no," to the fact that tar said, "I doubt that. Oh look, here we are now..." and she realized it wasn't a strip mall. Her reaction is just the revelation that she knows she isn't where she thought she'd be.

Where could they be? LAX, i doubt it, how many entrances and glass walls are there in an airport? Far too many to cover. And how much ammo would you have to use up clearing a place like that out. And could you ever really be sure you got everywhere? The base. Hmm... maybe. Tar did nock Lizzy's ass out before the drive. She coulda been out for a couple of hours. But, if we're thinking longer range, what chances are there that they pick the same Fantasy Vacation Destination? How about the other Tower? They did want a Tower of their own.

And i whole heartedly disagree with the theory of the Mallers going to the Arena. How much of a chore would that have been to clear out? Weather or not the Maller's know it, they already went toe to toe w/ the Arena outside of the Tower and they got the funk outta there. Doubt they'd have the stamina/firepower to make it thru.

Ok, i'm done.

Oops, and Lizzy is pregos and i think that Scratch is gonna wanna trade Lizzy for Pegs.
shovel:)

[GChild78]

Side note: If Lizzy is pregnant, I really hope it doesn't go the route of Dawn of the Dead (was that the one?) and have a zombie baby.

I really doubt that. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Saul is infected and immune. Lizzy having sex with him does not make her immune as well. If the baby turns, so would she...just like Russian chick in DotD. I think Lizzy is a victim of prolonged turning.


I think the stragglers that Tar and Brick are looking for are probably (for lack of a better term) slaves collected in the area. Think about it. They have goals. They don't wanna do all the hard work themselves, so they get some little forced helpers. Let's call them "The Maller's Little Helpers."

I think this is true. I also believe that these "little helpers" were the poor saps that were either too scared to leave the strip mall or thought that it was a good place to take shelter when the shit hit the fan. When the "Mallers" came, these people were forced to do whatever they want them to do. It's a simple agreement: do as we say and you get to live. If not, get out of OUR mall. Hell, they could have been using the women strictly for pleasure purposes...who knows.


I don't feel like we've dove into the other people Scratch brought up while in the furniture store enough. Anyone have thoughts as to who they might be? What their purpose is? Anybody think the Mallers have worked out some deal with the One With The Markings and are providing him with sacrifices to spare themselves? ;)

All I can gather is that these "others" are female. Pippin (spelling?) sounds like a nickname for a girl but where Scratch was taking her...I have no clue. The one that they "still have", I believe this one to be a straggler they found during their search for the runaways. The one that hasn't responded? Well I answered that before...

As far as them making a deal with The One? I don't think so. I mean, it's plausible but Scratch doesn't trust easy. I think they are just trying to gather up their numbers since they lost so many during the war with the tower. They are planning something and I think Lizzy saw a piece to that plan.

[nikvoodoo]

All I can gather is that these "others" are female. Pippin (spelling?) sounds like a nickname for a girl but where Scratch was taking her...I have no clue. The one that they "still have", I believe this one to be a straggler they found during their search for the runaways. The one that hasn't responded? Well I answered that before...

As far as them making a deal with The One? I don't think so. I mean, it's plausible but Scratch doesn't trust easy. I think they are just trying to gather up their numbers since they lost so many during the war with the tower. They are planning something and I think Lizzy saw a piece to that plan.

Maybe it's because I'm a theater geek, but as soon as I hear Pippen I immediately think of some guy trying to find his corner of the sky....I've never heard a woman referred to as Pippen. Only guys (see Lord of the Rings).

My theory about making the deal with the One With the Markings was fluff. I don't think that's the case at all. I was just talkin' out my butt.

[Ra1th]

maybe it's because i'm a theater geek, but as soon as i hear pippen i immediately think of some guy trying to find his corner of the sky....i've never heard a woman referred to as pippen. Only guys (see lord of the rings).

My theory about making the deal with the one with the markings was fluff. I don't think that's the case at all. I was just talkin' out my butt.

I told you this would happen!

clean up ur mess voodoo

:D

[nikvoodoo]

I told you this would happen!

clean up ur mess voodoo

:D
No. I refuse. People can have crazy theories and I feel like I should contribute to the Tin Hat Society every once and a while ;)

[GChild78]

My theory about making the deal with the One With the Markings was fluff. I don't think that's the case at all. I was just talkin' out my butt.

Haha...I gathered as much...I just wanted to see what kind of response my reply would get.

[nikvoodoo]

Haha...I gathered as much...I just wanted to see what kind of response my reply would get.

If you'd like the "Nikvoodoo Thinks You're Wrong and Is About To Clamp Down On Your Jugular Using Logic and Multi-Syllabic Words" treatment, that can be arranged :p ;). I betcha I can fake it to the point that I'll convince someone I believe it ;)

[Ra1th]

oh god please no...

[GChild78]

If you'd like the "Nikvoodoo Thinks You're Wrong and Is About To Clamp Down On Your Jugular Using Logic and Multi-Syllabic Words" treatment, that can be arranged :p ;). I betcha I can fake it to the point that I'll convince someone I believe it ;)

I bet you could! But why would you want to mess with our already confused minds?

[j0be]

I bet you could! But why would you want to mess with our already confused minds?

Trollish delight? Devil's advocate? Conversation starter? Or just plain evil?

[GChild78]

Trollish delight? Devil's advocate? Conversation starter? Or just plain evil?

Usually a lurker...but...um...*hides*

[nikvoodoo]

Trollish delight? Devil's advocate? Conversation starter? Or just plain evil?

Is all of the above an option? ;)


Usually a lurker...but...um...*hides*

Oh come out. No harm will come to you. I promise. :)

[Robalypse]

I'm way late to the party on this one, but it's a good thing I took the time to read through this thread, otherwise I really would have been barking up the wrong tree with the last episode.

It looks like my suspicion that KC might take us into some darker, Cormac McCarthy/Max Brooks territory after Episode 2 came true. I whinced when Tardust started leading Lizzie into the furniture store by himself as it was pretty obvious what was coming. I was relieved when oddly enough, Scratch came and saved her.

On that note, though she hid it completely behind her tough exterior, I'm glad we got to see a bit of humanity in Scratch. Though she acted like she didn't care at all, I think it was pretty evident, being a woman, she still didn't want to permit another woman getting raped. She put the feigned apathy aside when Tardust mentioned she said she didn't care. No doubt, tough as she is, being one of the few women stuck trying to survive with a bunch of male convicts she's had her share of being eyed up as "prey." Maybe that was Paco's mistake. Jenna McCombie does such a damn good job voicing the character too, to a point I'm always excited and disturbed when Scratch makes an appearance.

I hope it's not true, and other people have seemed to pick up on this, but for some reason I feel like there's foreshadowing Burt might not make it to the other side of whatever is coming. That would suck though as I feel like he brings something to the show none of the other characters do.

[samusaran253]

I really liked this episode.

[Arkum]

I get the feeling that Burt will be safe in the next "war". Seems like him and Michael would be good long distance riflemen and i don't think that anyone from the tower is going to go for an all out frontal assault. Once they figure out where Lizzy is I think they will have calmed Saul down enough so he doesn't get killed either. When Burt called Angel and had him bring down everything he was acting out of pure emotion. Now he's calmed down a bit.

I still think someone has to die soon, I'm just so clueless as to who at this point.

[BruceBonsai]

I think what may happen is that Lizzy was somehow infected by Saul (if he is a carrier) hence the vomiting and then she turns while under captivity of the Mallers.
After a hard fought battle with the Mallers the tower folk come across a freshly infected Lizzy and Saul is the one to do what has to be done. Sad face.
Maybe even Scratch and Bricks join the Tower, they are great characters.

[kingisback]

If you look at the timeline the We're Alive story has been going on for over two months (maybe over three). Saul and Lizzy's relationship could have been going on for a few weeks before he got shot. I'm also pretty sure that they were sharing a bed before he got shot too. As they discussed in the We're Not Dead podcast i really think she's pregnant but the things that sucks we might have to wait till next season to find out

[mem]

randomness about the episode I keep kicking around.

What if Lizzy's sickness is due to the fact that she and Saul had relations after Saul was exposed to the jumper's blood. Maybe Saul isnt affected by it but he passed something on to Lizzy ???

Can't remember to whom to give the credit to from episode 11 of WND but what if the Skittles charachter is the one that has the MPD and that is why he seems to pop in and out of the charachters from the towers lives ? Again to whomever, man the multiple personality thing has got me rethinking a few of the charachters in the tower as well as the Mallers(dont know that their new name will be just yet).

[shananala8]

If you look at the timeline the We're Alive story has been going on for over two months (maybe over three).

The story started on May 8th, 2009. It is currently mid to late August in the podcast.

[Arkum]

I'm hoping that this next fight brings up some more about who Randy is from when Micheal was out on anesthesia. Maybe he starts talking in his sleep again with the pressures of war upon him....

The more I listen to this chapter the more questions I have. Well played KC...well played

[Luna Guardian]

The story started on May 8th...

An ominous date, in more ways than one.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I don't think things are going to go well for Burt. If the Mallers did return to Eastern Bay they will now be living in an extemely well fortified home. Even with all their arsenal I dont' think Michael and the gang stand a chance at breaking in to a prison safely and rescuing Lizzie. No, I feel that a trade is going to take place; Burt for Lizzie. Remember how readily he was to sacrifice himself during the asault on the Tower; he said that if he gets killed, atleast they'll just be losing one old man.

[Arkum]

But the Mallers don't want Burt. they want Pegs.

[kdalton]

That was a difficult chapter to hear. Man, that was uncomfortable. Good, good, job.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

I don't feel like we've dove into the other people Scratch brought up while in the furniture store enough. Anyone have thoughts as to who they might be? What their purpose is? Anybody think the Mallers have worked out some deal with the One With The Markings and are providing him with sacrifices to spare themselves? ;)

Now that could be one reason why they're able to muck about the area so easily! It could also be why there are so many deserters beat feet and why it's so important to round them up. I don't see giving up a body know and then outside of Durai's personality. If it's a good "Business" decision, then its sound.

The flip side: The only thing is they'd have to give up a good number of bodies to keep the "Wolves" at bay. Dwindling manpower IS one thing I see that would keep Durai from bargaining.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Nik,

I loved the "Free floating" idea there. Way to churn up the mud. Now just join in with my "Arena" craziness Mon Ami!

[Adventureless_Hero]

But the Mallers don't want Burt. they want Pegs.

True, but I think in Scratch's eyes, Burt is higher on her the shit list than Lizzie is. Scratch may WANT to trade Lizzie for Peggs, but could end up settling on Burt.

[Arkum]

Scratch doesn't hit me as the type to settle, more like she'll take both and keep Lizzie

[Adventureless_Hero]

Scratch doesn't hit me as the type to settle, more like she'll take both and keep Lizzie

True. She'll definitely try and get the better end of the bargain. Wouldn't be a crazy twist if Durai is still alive and running the show. Then when Scatch is shouting at Michael and crew about making a trade, Durai gets fed up with her and just popps one in the back of her head, turns to Michael and says, "Take the blonde girl back. We'll take Burt and some of those guns."

Where do you suppose Scratch is taking Pippin? I thought maybe, just maybe, she might be dropping Pippin off near the Tower in an attempt to infiltrate it as a new mole. Either that or she's simply taking Pippin to replace some guard they haven't heard from in a while, probably assumed dead. Still, the way Scratch and Tardust (Tard) were so ambiguous in thier speach has my suspicions raised. Grrr!!! The 25th is so far away!

[Arkum]

I feel like the Tower is done taking people in. Been burned by the one with the markings and the whole Mallers thing, i think they would be a bit skeptical of everyone at this point. Though the leaders are all away right now so it would be an optimum time to try something.

[nikvoodoo]

I'm not exactly sure how Burt is even remotely close to a bargaining chip. Why would the Mallers care about Burt? Sure he's a good shot, but it's not like a trade in sports where you change teams and automatically you play to win for your new team. To me, Burt makes no sense to get exchanged for. Pegs on the other hand, makes perfect sense because Scratch wants her for a very specific reason. If Durai is still around, he might ruin Scratch's revenge by not wanting to make the exchange.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I'm not exactly sure how Burt is even remotely close to a bargaining chip. Why would the Mallers care about Burt? Sure he's a good shot, but it's not like a trade in sports where you change teams and automatically you play to win for your new team. To me, Burt makes no sense to get exchanged for. Pegs on the other hand, makes perfect sense because Scratch wants her for a very specific reason. If Durai is still around, he might ruin Scratch's revenge by not wanting to make the exchange.

I think Burt pisses a lot of people off. If bargaining begins, I'm sure he can sell himself with his charming personality. He'll spit words at Scratch like Scarface and Ugly Bitch. Plus doesn't Scratch have one of his pistols? I agree that Pegs is really what scratch wants, but Burt might be a reasonable substitute. I can also agree that Durai would ruin Scratch's plans at revenge. He'd say, "Screw your plan to trade Lizzie for Pegs just for revenge. Michael, we want to form an alliance." Michael replies, "Okay, kill Scratch and maybe..." *gunshot* Scratch falls dead. Okay all that in itallics was just bull, but it's still fun to picture.

I don't know. I just have this bad feeling about Burt's fate. He's feeling guilty about failng as a leader, failing to keep Lizzie safe...and now they believe she was raped. Burt needs a huge act of redemption and sacrificing himself would be the ultimate redemption.

[Luna Guardian]

It might not even be about getting someone on your team. Remember, the Mallers know that Burt is an excellent shot and an all-around pain in their ass, so they might want to trade Lizzy, who they probably consider worthless, for Burt just to make sure that Burt's not there to mess up their plans.

[VeritableHero]

I think what may happen is that Lizzy was somehow infected by Saul (if he is a carrier) hence the vomiting and then she turns while under captivity of the Mallers.
After a hard fought battle with the Mallers the tower folk come across a freshly infected Lizzy and Saul is the one to do what has to be done. Sad face.
Maybe even Scratch and Bricks join the Tower, they are great characters.HA! I love this idea. She could be a slow turner. That could be plausible if Saul is immune but kisses it up with Lizzy. Pass the infection and turn the woman you love. That would be a tragic moment of realization.

[sickboy774]

I would like to know more about Durai. We learned about the Colony and their leadership but I don't recall learning much about Durai and the Mallers. We are assuming they are all ex-cons but who knows if the Mallers are even aware of the Colony.

On a side note I thought it was funny when "Victor" got on stage last night.

[Ra1th]

Interesting that the actor for Durai wasnt there huh? I'm not saying he's dead, i think the opposite, but it certainly adds to the mystery

[nikvoodoo]

A lot can happen in a year. The actor who played Durai hasn't been needed for recording since March of 2010. Lots of things can come about in that time (out of town performing, moved away from the city, etc etc). Again, not saying he's dead, but I bet we learn more about Durai's fate in Chapter 21

[Pteranodon]

HA! I love this idea. She could be a slow turner. That could be plausible if Saul is immune but kisses it up with Lizzy. Pass the infection and turn the woman you love. That would be a tragic moment of realization.

I figured her vomiting was because some pig tried to rape her. Does it really take more than that to induce vomiting?

At the risk of sounding horrible, I'm glad the scum tried to rape her- for the sake of realism. I was so afraid these 'mallers' would lapse into corny cartoon-henchmen behavior (old-style bank robbers in striped shirts and black masks) and just tie her up and take her to their boss unblemished...

WRONG, that's NOT what would hapen and you know it. I'm so glad this show stayed true to its gritty realism (without lapsing into exploitation). I could barely listen to the scene because rape is much more offensive to me than simply killing someone, but that's how violent scum behave in the real world. So far this show has had death, love, treachery, loyalty, sickness, bravery, friendship, tyranny, loss, and a whole host of other human elements- I'm glad the writers didn't shy away from this one particularly shameful corner of human brutality.

[IAmMattFriend]

I had a hunch that when one of the Mallers said "We're Here" and Lizzie was like "No..." I thought about them pulling up to The Colony and I know Lizzie has NO IDEA what it is...she could just be in total shock of the damage of the place. I dunno. Its just a hunch.

[ImPaul]

In chapter 20 3 of 3. Scratch catches TarDust in the act. In the episode she tells him something like if he messes up again she "feed his A$$ to" who?
I can make out what she says. I almost sounds like she says she'd "feed his A$$ to the sisters".
Can anyone help me with this dialogue?

[tillvictory]

Does anyone else think Saul saying he would rather his girlfriend be dead than raped was kind of fucked up?

Furthermore, not just dead, but eaten alive by zombies. He would rather his girlfriend get eaten alive by zombies than raped.

[IamPaul]

In chapter 20 3 of 3. Scratch catches TarDust in the act. In the episode she tells him something like if he messes up again she "feed his A$$ to" who?
I can make out what she says. I almost sounds like she says she'd "feed his A$$ to the sisters".
Can anyone help me with this dialogue?

Yea, it is the sisters. I believe it is in reference to 'The Shawshank redemption'.

[Osiris]

Does anyone else think Saul saying he would rather his girlfriend be dead than raped was kind of fucked up?

Furthermore, not just dead, but eaten alive by zombies. He would rather his girlfriend get eaten alive by zombies than raped.

I think the difference is, one leaves her dead, the other leaves her with memories and nightmares for the rest of her life. I would agree with him that in this case it would be better if she'd died rather than live having been raped by who knows how many men, for how long, and so on. Sure, being eaten is a horrible way to go, but afterwards you are gone.

[tillvictory]

Rape and gang rape are both things that actually happen in the real world every day and many, many, many people survive it and go on to have healthy, happy, productive lives.

[Osiris]

Rape and gang rape are both things that actually happen in the real world every day and many, many, many people survive it and go on to have healthy, happy, productive lives.

And many don't. Many end up requiring years of therapy to deal with the effects. Some have day dreams about stepping out in front of dump trucks at red lights. Some push it down and never think about it again. Some take razors to their arms and legs on a daily basis. Some pay it forward by sexually abusing children they have. Just because some people are able to cope better than others doesn't mean that everyone copes the same.

You seem to have strong feelings about the subject, perhaps Saul has strong feelings about it as well.

:)

[tillvictory]

"If they got raped they're better off dead," is the least supportive thing you could possibly say about a survivor, because it completely excludes any potential for them to be okay afterwards when that potential absolutely exists. So regardless of how strong his feelings are, it's still a fucked up thing to say.

[Osiris]

"If they got raped they're better off dead," is the least supportive thing you could possibly say about a survivor, because it completely excludes any potential for them to be okay afterwards when that potential absolutely exists. So regardless of how strong his feelings are, it's still a fucked up thing to say.

Are you sure he said she was better off dead? :)

[tillvictory]

"At least we know those things didn't get her." "No, this is worse!"

In the context of Burt trying to make him feel better, we can deduce that what he meant was something like: "At least we know she wasn't painfully dismembered by a pack of zombies while conscious, and you don't have to live in fear that you will turn a corner and need to shoot the woman you love in the face before she eats you." To which Saul responded: "No, this is worse."

We could argue that "At least those things didn't get her" means "at least those things didn't drag her away to the stadium, in which case we would know exactly where she is and have a good idea of how to rescue her, because we've done that before." but I don't think that is what he would say to try to console Saul in that moment.

The idea that if you have been raped you are going to struggle with suicide, self harm, and a potential to sexually abuse others for the rest of your life is exactly the mindset that drives survivors to do terrible things to themselves - the feeling that the experience has damaged them forever, and they will never be happy or healthy or safe ever again.

Furthermore, some people also suffer PTSD from going to war and experiencing the kind of violence that everyone in the tower has been exposed to for the entire show... People with PTSD also struggle with suicide and self harm and harming the people around them. Since Saul was in the military and went overseas I'm sure he's aware of that, if he hasn't known someone who went through it.

I'm not saying he's an awful person. He was upset. Anyone can say or think terrible things when they're upset. It doesn't make you a bad person. And I'm pretty sure we can assume that he didn't mean it; if he found her alive and raped he wouldn't want to kill her and put her out of her misery.

But it was still a fucked up thing to say.

[Osiris]

Honestly, what is worse than knowing that the woman you love is being raped and tortured by the people who took her, and there is nothing you can do about it? I can't really think of anything worse than that.

Second, I'd like to hear this bit where Burt tells Saul "At least we know those things didn't get her." Are you able to provide a time code for the portion of the episode you are referencing?

Finally, I don't think that ignoring the fact that people have different coping mechanisms does not change the effects. I know some very well-balanced, even-tempered, intelligent people that have experienced unbelievably horrid after-effects due to rapes. To tell them it's simply a matter of their attitude towards the event would be asinine. Hey, rape isn't a big deal. It's all in your head. Get over it. Sorry, but that's beyond insensitive, and it's exactly what you're saying. PTSD has more factors than psychological at its root. You think you can control your body's output of chemicals and hormones? You can control the production and subsequent release of adrenaline? You must be some sort of Zen master the likes of which nobody could ever imagine. It isn't possible. They are involuntary responses to stimuli. You can't control them. When your flooded with them your body responds in the way that it is built.

Sure, some people can get past some things. Some people can deal with traumas easier than others. Some people cannot. It has nothing to do with perpetuation the idea that if you get raped you'll struggle with suicide, self-harm, etc. In fact, those are words I never said, nor was there any intent to convey that idea. What I said is "some people." Please don't put words in my mouth.

As for the PTSD argument as it pertains to Saul or the rest of the tower residents, what difference does that make? Just because he knows about it, doesn't change his response to it. It changes what you believe his response should be. You know you're going to get hooked on heroin if you use it, yet we still have junkies. I've known people who have committed suicide because they were sexually abused. I know a girl who burns her legs with a curling iron because her father raped her when she was 15 years old--that was 22 years ago, she burns herself every day. So you tell me. Is that because someone told her, "You're never going to be ok if this ever happens to you" or is it because she's simply unable to cope with it? She's in therapy, she understands PTSD, so throw your doctorate in clinical psychology on the table, and tell me how exactly she should cope with that?

Not everyone will cope the same, simply based on the opinion that it's all in their head. Taking it to the place you have seems a little callous.

[Osiris]

:)

[IamPaul]

tillvictory, I would like you to meet Osiris.

[tillvictory]

Speaking of putting words in other people's mouths: I never said that rape is not a big deal, and I never said that when you know a survivor having trouble coping you should tell them to get over it.

RECAP:

I said that I thought it was fucked up for Saul to say Lizzy getting raped was worse than her dying. (Chapter 20 Part 3 of 3- 14:17. I guess I remembered it wrong but the dialogue is "she could get bitten or attacked by some monster, but this is worse, Burt, this is way worse.")

Your response was that you agree; it would be better if she died because she wouldn't have to live with those memories forever.

My response was that just because you have been raped doesn't mean that you are going to be traumatized for the rest of your life and that a lot of people survive and recover and are happy, healthy individuals.

Your response was that other people don't.

I brought up PTSD to make the point that these people have already gone through horrific things that already put them at risk for the same things you brought up to support the claim that Lizzy is better off dead than raped.

Now you say you weren't saying that everyone who gets raped is going to struggle with suicide and self-harm forever, but you did say that you agree with Saul's sentiment that she would be better off dead... and if you believe that there is potential for her to be okay afterwards then why would you have said that?

That is all I'm saying. That for Saul to say it's worse for Lizzy to get raped than to die is fucked up, because she could get raped and be fine. Maybe she wouldn't be fine for a long time, or maybe ever (although that is unlikely). But she would be alive and the potential for her to be okay would exist. I am well aware of how psychological trauma affects people and that things like PTSD and depression cannot just be willed away or dealt with by "getting over it", but I am also well aware that they can be treated and worked through. In fact, the vast majority of people who experience sexual assault go on to have healthy, happy, productive lives - like I said in the very beginning. So the idea that it's better for someone to die than get raped... really is... fucked up.

[Osiris]

tillvictory, I would like you to meet Osiris.

Your words are so hurtful. :(

[Osiris]

Speaking of putting words in other people's mouths: I never said that rape is not a big deal, and I never said that when you know a survivor having trouble coping you should tell them to get over it.

RECAP:

I said that I thought it was fucked up for Saul to say Lizzy getting raped was worse than her dying. (Chapter 20 Part 3 of 3- 14:17. I guess I remembered it wrong but the dialogue is "she could get bitten or attacked by some monster, but this is worse, Burt, this is way worse.")

Your response was that you agree; it would be better if she died because she wouldn't have to live with those memories forever.

My response was that just because you have been raped doesn't mean that you are going to be traumatized for the rest of your life and that a lot of people survive and recover and are happy, healthy individuals.

Your response was that other people don't.

I brought up PTSD to make the point that these people have already gone through horrific things that already put them at risk for the same things you brought up to support the claim that Lizzy is better off dead than raped.

Now you say you weren't saying that everyone who gets raped is going to struggle with suicide and self-harm forever, but you did say that you agree with Saul's sentiment that she would be better off dead... and if you believe that there is potential for her to be okay afterwards then why would you have said that?

That is all I'm saying. That for Saul to say it's worse for Lizzy to get raped than to die is fucked up, because she could get raped and be fine. Maybe she wouldn't be fine for a long time, or maybe ever (although that is unlikely). But she would be alive and the potential for her to be okay would exist. I am well aware of how psychological trauma affects people and that things like PTSD and depression cannot just be willed away or dealt with by "getting over it", but I am also well aware that they can be treated and worked through. In fact, the vast majority of people who experience sexual assault go on to have healthy, happy, productive lives - like I said in the very beginning. So the idea that it's better for someone to die than get raped... really is... fucked up.

Cool recap.