Character Evolution

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

How do you see your favorite (or all) character/s evolve in the coming episodes?
How will their individual idiosyncrasies and skill set hinder or help the survivors (tower and colony)

Let's take Kelly for instance: Pain in the ass at first, but as a Lawyer....
She'd be able to help iron out differences. A make shift judge if you will.
Lizzy as a therapist (in training) can help people deal with the stress of the situation.

[Onslaught]

I think Michael is just going to dig the hole hes in further. Hes stopped using common sense and people have begun to dislike him.
Angel on the other hand is growing as a leader.
I think in the upcoming episodes Kalani is going to show that he can do more than people think. I think hes gonna do something to show everyone that he isn't the big douche people think he is.
Pegs is starting to use guns. This shows that shes accepting the fact that these are not people anymore and she has to do what she has to do to survive.

[Wicked Sid]

Angel on the other hand is growing as a leader.

I still don't understand how people see Angel growing as a leader, I've seen none of it. All he's done is sit back and let everyone else take control. Sure he's had a little input on what to do, but, it rarely has been anything significant.

[Ra1th]

On that note, even i have to agree... Dont get me wrong, Angel's had a lot of growth over the seasons, especially in field experience, and leadership in the field, but he doesnt seem to be able to manage a crowd and keep people under control, and i really hope this changes, and there's definitely a good possibility for that because of his officer training, he just needs a chance to lead a small group of people (he did really well in the arena mission), just a group that doesnt involve kalani, because i'll bet anything even michael wouldnt be able to do much better with kalani (recall michael's interactions with kalani on the way back from the arena)

But i never criticize angel without praise so in terms experience, at this point in time, if you had to send someone out on a crucial mission outside the tower, Angel's ur man. Because ever since the zombie apocalypse began, i think Angel has been on the most life threatening missions so far, he was on the first supply run with saul, infiltrated the arena with riley, fought off the horde on the fire truck with burt, and is about to kill off a behemoth, so in terms of field experience in zombieland, i'd say he's arguably better than michael and saul now (not to mention saul's half dead (and supposedly a crappy marksman) and michael is broken wing). so angel has gone from greenhorn to capable soldier

[Onslaught]

Ra1th,
you have to admit he is growing as a leader even if it is a small growth. He is being sent out on more missions and gaining more experience. He is starting to learn what to do in different situations with different people. It is a small step but if it continues he could start to lead larger groups on longer missions. He has lead a few small groups of people and if he gets enough experience then he could start lead larger groups until (this could take some time) he's up there with Burt.

[Wicked Sid]

Ra1th,
you have to admit he is growing as a leader even if it is a small growth. He is being sent out on more missions and gaining more experience. He is starting to learn what to do in different situations with different people. It is a small step but if it continues he could start to lead larger groups on longer missions. He has lead a few small groups of people and if he gets enough experience then he could start lead larger groups until (this could take some time) he's up there with Burt.

Sounds more like he's learning to be part of a squad, see, part. He hasn't really lead Kalani nor did he exactly lead Riley, but there's no doubt about him leading Datu.

[Ra1th]

How is Angel's leadership in the field any different from that of Michael's role when he's on a mission. i dont really see any difference. when Angel was with Kalani, he has been in control of every action, and kalani has been objectifying at every turn. first when they dumped Latch's body, then when they checked teh behemoth, then wehn they went to the armory for ammunition instead of making a run for it as kalani suggested. This last mission has been Angel's leadership on display. same with the arena mission, after Michael was MIA, angel was the one calling the shots, he decided to continue on the mission, he made the call to keep going forward, it was his call to go after datu, i dont think you're giving him enough credit.

I can understand lack of macro leadership and keeping the masses of the tower under control, but in the field Angel's got it under control. my question is what do you see in michael that you dont see in Angel?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Leaders learn by doing anyway. You learn "followership" before you start "leading" people. Angel is getting battle tested in the best ways. He was my least favorite character at first simply because is (what I assume) a Butter bar. NCO's hate them. LOL!
He's getting the exp in simply because Saul is out of pocket now. That's a good thing. He needed it badly.
So, how does his growth contribute to the Tower later?

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Ra1th, <br />
to answer your last question. People do what Michael asks or tells them. He keeps them in line. Angel would get ignored. I will say this: Angel is more adaptable so far. <br />
Burt showed poor...

[Wicked Sid]

And again, I have to play Devil's Advocate, too many Angel lovers :).

As Crowbar said, Angel is only gaining experience due to Saul's incapacitation, had that not happened he would not have been able to show his value as an asset to the Tower. He has shown his willingness to sacrifice himself, even if it was for Kalani. All of this weighs heavily in his favor, but, he hasn't shown loyalty to his unit. He didn't help Michael when he cracked and he was willing to leave Saul. Maybe they didn't serve together long enough to grow a bond, but you'd think organization and military brotherhood would reign supreme above self-preservation.

[Zombiehead]

I'm still not seeing this growth in Angel that everyone speaks of. At most I see he's trying to make up for his unacceptable behavior during the fire. Burt sends all capable and trained bodies out on missions. Angel's military training puts him in line above the rest but that doesn't make him any much more of a leader than say, Lizzy. Helpful and experienced, yes but not Burt's equal and he's definitely nowhere near Michael's level. So he's pushing Kalani around, how hard could that be? Who wouldn't want to push Kalani around? ... or off a cliff.

[Ra1th]

I'm still not seeing this growth in Angel that everyone speaks of. At most I see he's trying to make up for his unacceptable behavior during the fire. Burt sends all capable and trained bodies out on missions. Angel's military training puts him in line above the rest but that doesn't make him any much more of a leader than say, Lizzy. Helpful and experienced, yes but not Burt's equal and he's definitely nowhere near Michael's level. So he's pushing Kalani around, how hard could that be? Who wouldn't want to push Kalani around? ... or off a cliff.

well heres the thing, i dont see Angel's actions during the fire to be unacceptable. when he chose to leave saul, that was the best choice for the group as a whole, if saul turned as they were carrying him up the stairs, he would have killed the entire group that was going up the stairs, angel, burt, michael, and pegs. which would take out damn near all ppl capable of leadership in the tower (save riley/lizzy) and everyone would have died. if he turned on the roof, with the others, then once again, the casualties that zombie saul would have effected would be very high. so imo, angel didnt do a damn thing wrong when he left saul behind, and the way i see it, why isnt no one else to blame for leaving saul? there were 3 other ppl there besides angel, why is burt not at fault for leaving saul, i understand michael had a broken arm at the time, but one order from michael to help saul, and angel would have done it, but i heard no such order, precious michael just used his arm as his own excuse and also went up the tower. leaving saul was the utilitarian choice, to help the most people, saul would have to be left behind.

i keep hearing michael's level michael's level, as far as leadership in the field, i'll say that angel can do just as well as michael or burt, if not better. i dont see what it is that michael is doing on the field that angel is not doing, please, i'd love to hear some examples of what michael did that angel didnt do. ever since michael, and saul have been out of action, angel's been the one who's been picking up their duties as well, lizzy and riley might be good, but in burt's mind, a soldier is a soldier, and theres no replacement for that. so angel's been getting ridiculous amounts of field experience, and granted it's B/C saul and michael are out of the field, but point being, thats character development.

wickedsid,

when u say that angel left michael behind during the waterplant incident with the behemoth, he didnt have any other options, his immediate actions were to get the hell out of there cause that behemoth was still chasing them. so they took off, and it was widely accepted that michael had not survived.

i can understand the argument that he wasnt very loyal to his unit, right before michael left, angel took him aside and confessed that he felt terrible for leaving saul behind, and michael was telling him that he did what he had to do, but i think Angel does feel pretty crappy for leaving saul (lizzy has given him endless amounts of shit for it). and that lead to his character developing into a more loyal character. he didnt leave behind kalani, i believe his words were something like, im not gonna leave a soldier behind, not again.

so u ask how angel is developing as a leader, i'll tell u he's a leader on the field now, he's not very good at controlling the masses, and snapping orders to the tower residents, but on the field, his soldiers follow his orders (even if kalani bitches and whines about every single one)

[Wicked Sid]

i dont see what it is that michael is doing on the field that angel is not doing, please, i'd love to hear some examples of what michael did that angel didnt do.

Oil his Gun.


when u say that angel left michael behind during the waterplant incident with the behemoth, he didnt have any other options, his immediate actions were to get the hell out of there cause that behemoth was still chasing them. so they took off, and it was widely accepted that michael had not survived.

That wasn't what I was referring too, as in, I never said that. I was talking about when Mike lost his shit and snapped, relinquished his leadership, and let someone else take control. Angel didn't try to comfort him, didn't try to support him in any way, he let him rant and slunk into a corner until power was thrust unto someone he could follow.

[Ra1th]

Oil his Gun.

Touche



That wasn't what I was referring too, as in, I never said that. I was talking about when Mike lost his shit and snapped, relinquished his leadership, and let someone else take control. Angel didn't try to comfort him, didn't try to support him in any way, he let him rant and slunk into a corner until power was thrust unto someone he could follow.

thats more of a complex issue between friends rather than an issue of loyalty isnt it? i see what u mean but what would u have Angel do? when michael snapped, and locked himself in his room, the tower was still in chaos. they had fought off the horde, but saul was still half dead, there were still small fires to put out, the ppl were in a state of panic, i think angel's first goal was an attempt to maintain a chain of command, and take control as a leader himself, but no one was listening, and he was being overwhelmed, and then burt took over